The Strategy Behind Longevity Gains

Speaker A: Foreign. So the idea of retiring at 65 just doesn't really fly. A lot of people don't want to do that in the first place. A lot of people don't have enough savings saved up. Um, due to what I talk about with the marketing. Construction of retirement, uh, really was based on a very small window between 1950 and, like, 19, 1960 and 1978. And it hasn't existed in a long time. And yet we all think, oh, I gotta save money and retire at 65. Odds are no. Even if you have the money, you know, what are you gonna do? Nothing for 40 years. That's. So that's the opportunity. Welcome to Seven Figure Small, the podcast that adds to your playbook of strategies and tactics to attract an audience and build your business, all, uh, without investors or employees. I'm your host, serial digital entrepreneur, Brian Clark. Thanks for joining us. Let's dive in.

Speaker B: All right, Brian, well, this has been quite a fortnight. You, uh, sold one of your biggest businesses and launched a new project. There's a lot going on here. Let's, uh, maybe let's start with the, uh, with the first piece, uh, Copyblogger. What's up?

Speaker A: Yeah, as of last week, I sold my interest in Copyblogger. Uh, this was the same week we launched a new project over here. And honestly, I thought about that more than the, uh, the sale. Although, you know, it's significant. It is the end of a big chunk of my life's work. Um, I don't know, people ask if it's bittersweet, but, you know, it's kind of time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Since, you know, just as a recap, we sold Studio Press in 2018. We sold Rainmaker in 2019. All the other copy Blogger partners, uh, took buyouts in 2019 as well. Uh, so they were out and off doing other things. You and I, and then. Trudy, join the team. We're off doing other things. But I was still, uh, holding on to a sizable chunk of Copy Blogger, and Tim, uh, Stoddart, uh, basically made me an offer I couldn't refuse. And, uh, now I'm going house shopping in Costa Rica. For real this time. I was debating whether we should buy anything, but anyway, um, no, it's all good. It's all good. And, uh, I think it's, it's, you know, ending in a good way the same week you launch something that, to me, kind of gives me that same feeling when I'm writing as I felt in January of 2006 when I was cranking out those Articles, no one knew who I was, no one was paying attention. And I don't quite have it that bad right now. But still we're doing something different, a different market, different uh, audience in a lot of respects. So, ah, you know, I don't think uh, there's time to rest on any laurels. And also as we talk about week after week, um, you know, what used to work back then is not what works now. So this is exciting in that regard, which is, you know, all new ways of uh, kind of executing on the same vision, which is build an audience, build a business. But uh, the way that works out, uh, is quite, quite different than it used to be. But still, uh, the best way to build a digital business that I've ever come across by far.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, it is, it is interesting. You know, it's like the official ending of one era. But then we've got this new project and this new thing that you're really excited about kind of stepping into the new era. Why don't you, when you explain or give us the overview of the new project.

Speaker A: Well, we did um, announce it. We, we took the week off on the podcast, um, because there was quite a bit going on last week. But uh, I did do a newsletter to the unemployable audience that basically introduced what our new thing is. And I guess the catchphrase for this is the longevity economy, Tom. It's basically the market of people over the age of 50, which is actually many, many different markets. It's not obviously one big bucket of the same type of people just because they're older adults. Um, but yeah, the stats are pretty staggering. You know, over over half of, of U.S. consumer wealth is already, or consumer spending happens in this age group. 83% of, of assets and wealth are in people over the age of 50. By the time we get to 2030, it's just going to explode even larger. So this is a long term play, uh, because it's demographically based, based on a aging population and rapidly declining birth rates. You can't escape it. It's happening. But the main thesis that I'm exploring with uh, the first two articles over at longevity gains is everything we think about older people and everything we think about. Things like retirement were all creations of marketing. People can say, well, wait a minute, retirement came from the Social Security act, sorta. But there's way more to the story, um, about why we think about retirement the way we do now. The long and short of it is, uh, people are going to live, are already living longer We've got, uh, developments almost every week in longevity science that promise to reverse aging. I know that sounds crazy, but it's literally being demonstrated to be viable. Uh, we got to get it right on humans. Um, but there's no reason why it won't work on humans is where we're at right now. So that's kind of amazing. So the idea of retiring at 65 just doesn't really fly. A lot of people don't want to do that in the first place. A lot of people don't have enough savings saved up. Um, due to what I talk about with the marketing, construction of retirement, uh, really was based on a very small window between 1950 and, like, 19, 1960 and 1978. And it hasn't existed in a long time. And yet we all think, oh, I got to save money and retire at 65. Odds are, no. Even if you have the money, you know, what are you going to do? Nothing for 40 years? So that's the opportunity. People retire later or, uh, not at all, which means they keep spending. But they're an entirely different group of consumers. So there's opportunities for entrepreneurs. New products, new services, new offers, but most importantly, new ways of talking to people that are basically ignored by marketers and advertisers. Um, as we sit here today while everyone goes and chases Gen Z, which, last I checked with my kids have no money except for mine. So it's an interesting thing if you, you want to check it out. Uh, we got a great response last week with a bunch of subscribers. Uh, but it's@longevitygains.com that's a little double play on words there. We're living longer, and we're all going to profit from this if, uh, you're paying attention and taking action accordingly. So there you have it.

Speaker B: Are you watching Succession? If so, are you caught up?

Speaker A: No, I refuse to watch Succession because it's supposed to be satire, but it's too close to real life. I'm like, people really act that way. It's the same thing I had with Silicon Valley. I tried to watch White Lotus. I'm like, this isn't satire. These people are real and I can't stand them.

Speaker B: There is no satire anymore. Like, it's just, uh, like, what could

Speaker A: be more surreal than real life, you know? But I did hear about this episode where they go living plus.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: I mean, it's meant to, that is meant to be biting satire. But I'm like, uh, no, there are entrepreneurs right now thinking that way, totally missing the point. But yeah, no, I get where you're coming from.

Speaker B: When I was watching the episode, I was thinking about that, how funny it would be if we made that the

Speaker A: product for Jeff next April Fools, you know, but by that time, maybe it won't be a joke, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, of course. I mean, the joke of the whole thing is they don't really mean anything by it. He's just saying it to drive the stock price up.

Speaker A: Of course, it's like adding AI to your name right now.

Speaker B: So. Anyway, but on. On the serious topic of strategy, that is why I showed up, uh, for this podcast today. As you're. As your chief operations officer, I'm very curious what the strategy is for longevity gain so I can carry it out.

Speaker A: That's a very funny joke, Jared. It's only half true, people. I tell them bits and pieces. Yeah. He goes, let's start up the podcast again so I know what the hell we're doing.

Speaker B: Hey, it's worked. It's worked over these many years. It's all good.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. But, um, yeah, that. So that is the, the focus, uh, of this episode. So there will be no excuses, Jared, when you go. I didn't know that.

Speaker B: None.

Speaker A: Just none.

Speaker B: Go back and listen to your own podcast.

Speaker A: Exactly right. Every time you Intruder, you're like, what are we doing? I'm like, have you read all that stuff I write? Oh, are we supposed to read that?

Speaker B: That's for us too. Yes, absolutely. All right, so let's, uh, so let's get into this then. What is the, what is the plan? How do you see this all unfolding?

Speaker A: Well, before we get to there, we have to address the elephant in the room that, uh, when I launched Longevity, uh, gains, some people were very quick to notice something that was considered an anomaly for Brian Clark. And that is, it's on Substack.

Speaker B: Oh, yes.

Speaker A: Like, some people are like, like, you know, end of an era, he sells copy blogger, and now he's digital sharecropping. Well, not really. Let me, Let me assure you that I have not changed my opinion, uh, at all. I have been critical of Substack, especially in the early years. Um, and at the same time, I'm threatening to launch a project on it to just see if, uh, what I think, um, and, and one thing that I always maintain was if Substack had really viable built in discovery functionality for, for publishers, then that makes it worthwhile. Because the hardest thing right now is distribution gaining subscribers. Right. You know, social media, the algorithms don't work like they used to. SEO, crowded, very crowded and competitive. Um, SERPs plus, who knows what the AI effect is going to be? Uh, that's going to take a while. But all the indications are the things we have historically relied on for traffic outside of ads, ah, is very, very different and in many cases just not viable. Right. Um, so I've, uh, been watching Substack, and they do have a discovery function that's pretty cool. Publishers basically recommend what they're reading. So when I launched Longevity Gains last week, um, one of the, uh, my favorite newsletters is New, uh, World, Same Humans by David Matten. He's a, uh, he's a futurist. And, uh, his newsletter was the only one that I had on my little recommendation section. And then I go to Substack Notes, which we'll talk about in a second, because that's another reason why I decided to give it a shot. He's like, where did all these subscribers come from? They're all from Substack Internal, but I can't tell where they're from. And I'm like, I think that was me. At, uh, least I hope so, because I just got a boatload of subscribers from emailing the unemployable list, and I was only recommending you. And he's like, cool beans. So I'm hoping to be on the receiving end of that as well. But, you know, it takes a while, I think, for that to kick in. Um, so. But the long and short of it is this Substack is not really email newsletter software. I know it's positioned that way, and I considered launching a project on it, uh, a while back, and then I realized I couldn't because it's not email marketing software that has, you know, automation, tagging, segmentation. None of that stuff is in there. And so you can't really call it email software. What it is is really cool blogging software that sends your post out by email. And we've had that kind of technology forever. Remember Feedblitz? Right. We used to use Feedblitz at Copyblogger. I mean, that was essentially an RSS thing where you published on your blog and it sent it out by email. Right. So, uh, the, the difference here is that the, the substack interface is really great for publishing. It reminds me a lot of Medium. Medium just flipped their positioning the opposite way. Medium does the same exact thing. They positioned it as blogging software, but it goes out by email too, you know, uh, and Medium doesn't have the gating attribute of basically you can create a paid newsletter where um, you can designate that uh, a post is behind the paywall and only paying people can see it, yada yada yada. So that's essentially what Substack really is. But you can export your content, you can take your email subscribers with you and importantly to me you can use your own domain, which of course I am. So in that regard it's no different than WordPress.com or um, let's see, Squarespace, um, any basic popular blogging software works exactly like this and it has all the same attributes. And of course all of these type of services have terms and conditions that if you violate them you will get kicked off. Right? And so does your web host though with, you know, with self installed WordPress and your own domain you can still get knocked off if you publish porn and various other forms of troublesome content. Right? So that's pretty uniform across the board. The only thing you have to look out for on Substack is that some people have actually run into. I uh, heard about marketer, uh, Cody Sanchez, got kicked off a substack because she violated the one cardinal rule which is thou shalt not promote another membership solution. Uh, and circumvent substacks own. Uh, that's how they make money. That's the only way they make money. So that's, that's reasonable. Um, so if you're, if you're going to use Substack, uh, as free email or free publishing software, just don't promote a membership site or some other sort of subscription thing on someone else's platform. Um, so all in all it's, it's not digital sharecropping unless they changed one of these rules which would be you can't take your email subscribers, you can't take your content, you can't use your own domain otherwise. This is very similar to using any other kind of software, um, including self installed WordPress because your host has rules just like anyone else as well. So that's really how I came around to it. But it was the discoverability function. Like if I publish great content and do all the things that I can do networking wise, will my subscriber base grow faster than otherwise? Uh, the second thing was Substack notes, which if you haven't heard is kind of like Twitter. Um, it resembles Twitter quite a bit but it's all within the sub stack ecosystem. So everyone who's over there subscribes to email newsletters, right? And those are the people we're trying to reach. So now compare that to Twitter without even getting into the multitude of other issues that are going on over there, um, as a, as a platform for promoting your work, it seems like it's not as targeted as perhaps this might be. So I thought that was another reason to give it a shot. Will it stay forever on Substack? I would, I'm going to go ahead and say probably not. I can think of a scenario where we do keep it over there and we do actually use the paid, um, you know, subscriber paid newsletter functionality, but it would always just be a compliment to something else. So we'll see and we'll report back here if, uh, I run into anything troubling. But short, uh, of getting banned, I don't really see too many real issues with using this software. You know, Jared, you know this very well. We use Circle for community stuff. You can take your content, you can use your own domain, you can export your members. That's all that matters, right? You know, but can you recreate something like Circle, uh, without spending $100,000 on your own? No, you can't. That's the world we now live in. So it's all about the rules that these software providers have and whether or not they're respectful of publishers or not. That's the new reality.

Speaker B: I don't want to get too in the weeds on Substack, um, but I do have a question just based on your understanding of the terms. So I know like, you can't have a, you know, a free newsletter on Substack and then promote a paid newsletter elsewhere. But what about like, like you just mentioned to us, we have a paid community on Circle. Is it against the terms to have a new free or paid newsletter on Substack and then direct people to your paid community? Because that's a typical kind of stair step, you know, it's like free newsletter, paid newsletter, full out community.

Speaker A: Is that the terms it, it probably is. I probably wouldn't want to test that, um, with longevity gains in particular. We're not promoting the community. It's separate from that. Um, we are promoting consulting and coaching services, but those are not against the terms of service and it's only if you basically have a WordPress membership site and you use your free substack to push your traffic over there to get people to buy. If you get caught, that is a violation of the terms and conditions because that's effectively how Substack's built in technology works and is intended for them to make money by taking a small cut of that. Interesting.

Speaker B: I wonder if they'll build some more community features into it then. I don't know.

Speaker A: I don't know. Um, they seem really focused with both discoverability and notes on getting people to get more subscribers. And when you think about it, this is the mission. This is the hardest thing to do in, uh, digital marketing right now. We take it for granted that there's content and that there's email, but what people are struggling with, and we know this from working with people, is, okay, how do I get my subscribers, how do I get traffic to the site to convert enough of them to keep growing on a regular basis? That's where everything has really come down to.

Speaker B: Yep. It's funny. Trudy and I were getting ready to launch this transition team with the, uh, Movement Mastermind folks, getting ready to, you know, to kind of launch the next phase of it. And Trude and I were just talking, and our assumption is that with most people that we're working with, that's the problem we're going to help them solve because it's the biggest problem we'll run into.

Speaker A: Yep, no doubt. I think most of the people listening are having the same problem. And we're going to talk about that a little bit here, because here we have a new project that is appealing to some of our existing audience, but in many ways we're going into an entirely different audience. Uh, so that means, right, I sell Copy Blogger, and then I choose a topic where I have to enter unchartered waters in with a new audience. Sounds like I'm crazy, but I like a good challenge. But we do have a plan for this. So that's, uh, effectively, you know, why we launched movement Consulting. Yes. Um, we've attracted some really great, um, coaching and consulting clients that, you know, have all different sorts of businesses. But one of our primary specializations will be this along this longevity economy market. Um, so we're going to help people develop their longevity marketing strategy that can be done on a consulting basis, that can be done on a coaching basis. Uh, we've got actually a lot planned down the road, but right now we're starting in a very specific way, and that is to build a new audience, uh, many of which are in arenas that we do not currently reach and make a profit while doing it. So there's. There it is, Jared. That's our strategy.

Speaker B: Interesting. And how. What are the steps? How are we going to carry that? How much, how much can we give people of the actual steps for how we're going to carry that out? Yeah.

Speaker A: So basically, if, if you are selling something expensive, right. And this is the case we've been talking about since last fall. If you are doing client services, what you sell is relatively expensive compared to someone selling ebooks or court, you know, or low cost courses or what have you. Because it's expensive, there's more room in there for return on investment. So therefore you can afford to advertise, which builds a general audience. Only a few of that people within that audience are actually going to pay your consulting fees or whatever it is that you do. You're a freelance writer, right? You, you charge, you know, a good amount of money for that. You're a consultant, what have you. So in our case, um, where our lead offer basically for longevity gains is let us help you with your longevity marketing strategy. And we have two ways of doing that. Consulting is we basically work with you and create it for you. And with coaching, we work over a, uh, two or three month period, at least initially, and we do it with you, right? It's a process of working together in order to extract, um, what your unique strategy should be. Right? So it's finding the winning difference within a specific niche. Um, so you get a few people who uh, sign up as consulting or coaching clients, um, which is only a tiny fraction of the amount of people that join your audience, right? But that effectively finances your audience equation, uh, audience acquisition. And um, and then you're left with a broader audience that has essentially the same problem as the people who hire you for consulting, but not the same motivation. And by that I mean some people want you to take care of the damn problem right now personally, and they want to pay you a decent amount of money to do that, right? Other people are like, I can't afford that, or I don't want to pay that, but I would pay for something lower. So here's the cool thing. By serving those high ticket consulting clients, you effectively are gaining really valuable insight into, into how to teach, uh, other people how to do what, what you're, you're doing for those people, uh, in a group setting, right? So this is called co creation. I first started teaching this in 2007 with teaching cells. One way to do co creation, you know, Teaching Cells was basically a cohort based course in 2007 which is all the rage now, right? I, you know, talk about going back to the day and reflecting on it. Um, but we said in 2007, Online education is going to be huge. This type of teaching is going to be huge. And that all turned out to be true. But co creation in that regard was by teaching live, not Only do you create the product. So you effectively sold the product before it existed. But that's not that radical. What does a college professor do? They've got a, you know, they've got a course name, they've got a syllabus, they've got some textbooks. But you sign up and pay your tuition in order to go pay for that, you know, to go to that semester of the class and then it's taught over that three or four month period. So cohort based, you know, courses or, or group coaching, that's the same thing. It resembles real life teaching. And I think that's why this is what, is what works these days. Because you have all these course platforms where people just sign up and there's a static course there and they watch some videos and, and you know, what have you and they, people buy those things all the time. The problem is 98 of people don't finish them, they never act on them, they don't do anything about it. So once you've done that a few times, you're probably more inclined to join something where you've got classmates for all the various reasons. You as a community guy know the uh, the support there and the interaction is invaluable. Plus you've got the participation of the actual subject matter expert. Um, it's not as intensive as, as you do with your one on one clients because it's a group setting but you're still involved. So in this case I'm talking about co creation in that the interactions you have with your high ticket consulting clients give you all sorts of insight how to better teach your general whatever it is you're, you're teaching in a group setting. So that's the next step where you're able to create a coaching curriculum or a cohort based course that is really good and it's scalable. Right. So maybe you work with two high dollar consulting clients a month, but you can drop the price and work with a hundred people in a group coaching section and you're making actually more money. And you do that maybe once or twice a year and that's your business. So that's the next level where you scale your expertise uh, based on the insights that you gained from the high dollar consulting clients who help finance the acquisition of the audience in the first place.

Speaker B: And then from there you can go on to you know, self paced courses, books, you know, kind of even more scalable solutions. And is it interesting that this kind of flips the normal sequence that you know, we've kind of all been Taught and all assume it kind of flips it on its head and does it in, in reverse instead of, you know, the ascension model, the dissension in the terms that you've used.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, this is a dissension model. It's basically you sell the most expensive thing first, not a Tripwire or $9 product that is supposed to uh, lead you to riches as you sell more expensive stuff up the ladder. Um, that's become obviously less effective once you have to perhaps pay for your traffic because you're not going to make ROI, uh, on Facebook ads with a nine dollar product. It's even tough with a 99 product. Right. So you need something high margin. Um, but the important thing here, Jared, is that again, everyone has the same problem. You don't just ignore all the people who don't buy because that would be a travesty. You're building an audience just like you would do with the upside down, the other side of the model. But in this case you're giving them value and nurturing them until you can offer them that lower price but scaled, um, group coaching alternative, what have you. And like you said, from there you just extract the static content from your group coaching and that becomes a DIY self paced course. Or you could take that material, turn it into a book, which becomes you can flip the whole thing back over and go into the ascension mode. By then leading with a book and then upselling the coaching and then reserving your high, uh, dollar consulting for only the people willing to pay you the most or the most prestigious projects or just the most interesting stuff. At that point you just pick and choose. A lot of people though, at that point choose not to do one on one consulting at all.

Speaker B: You know, uh, I'm curious and this could be an entire episode on its own, but I'm curious, what, how should people think about their positioning? Like if someone is thinking about doing, you know, going with a dissension model instead of an ascension model, what are some, maybe some different things they have to think about in terms of positioning to put themselves in a place where they can get a high dollar client, whereas before they might not have been thinking along those lines?

Speaker A: Well, the key is really just demonstrating that you understand the problem that these people all share in a way that makes them go, this is my person. It's like they're reading my mind. Yeah. And um, that is a big part of really understanding who your prospect is, who your ideal customer or client is. And then positioning is an outgrowth of that, where you're able to strongly resonate with the right people while kind of, you know, sending the rest of the people off or even kind of effectively, you know, making them not like you even, you know, just, you're not for me. But these people are and they know it very strongly. So I think it's an outgrowth of really understanding who these people are, uh, what their problem is, uh, and that's really what I'm talking about in terms of co creation. Because as the solution provider, you may assume certain things about people who have this problem because you're no longer them. Right? You have the expertise to know how to fix the problem. So it's so valuable to work with clients one on one because they tell you things about the way they think about the issue, why they won't, you know, why they were hesitant to tackle it in the first place, why they haven't succeeded in the past. All of that allows you to dimensionalize the problem at such a level that not only do people understand that you get it, but, but you're able to express, here's why you don't want to put this off and not fix the problem. Here's all the pain and the further suffering and, you know, frustration that you're going to face if you don't do it. And that just doesn't happen with people who only have a shallow understanding of what a prospect is trying to achieve.

Speaker B: All right, so for someone who is interested in learning more about this strategic framework that you've just laid out here that we're going to be following, what is the best next step for them? Where can they dive in and get their hands dirty on this?

Speaker A: Well, those who have been paying attention, um, over the last six months or so, but didn't purchase the Personal Enterprise Accelerator course, know that we do have a course that teaches this strategy, um, in much more, greater detail. And, uh, we're going to run, uh, a promo on that in the coming week or so. So what you need to do is, if you're interested, get on the email list, which is, uh, the short URL for that is the Playbook email. But basically we're going to do a promo where we knock the price down to what we had at launch, um, and then we're going to take it off the market because as we just explained, we're going in a completely different direction. It's going to take 110% of our time and focus. We're, uh, not abandoning the concepts contained within the Personal Enterprise Accelerator course. And as I just told you, we are Living them, um, right there. We don't do anything just to do it. You know, I came up with this course because I knew we were going to use this exact model with this once we got it launched. So, um, but it will change form. It will go into a different market for us, which will be tied to the Further audience. So we're all in on old people is what I'm saying.

Speaker B: We are.

Speaker A: Okay, no offense, I am. I just violated rule number one of marketing to older people. Don't call them old. Don't call me old. Um, but no, it's conceptually. This will become part of our broader, uh, repertoire. Over at, uh, Further is our consumer side of the longevity economy and longevity gains is the B2B side. Right. So all of this is going to live on, but it won't live on in its current form after we do this last hurrah. Uh, one last sale for people who, um, may be struggling just like everyone else is with. I'm just not getting subscribers because I just can't get enough traffic to the site to get people to convert in the first place. I understand that. And that's really what the personal enterprise Accelerator does. But it's also a product development course, which is nice. You know, it's not just audience building and it's not just how to create, uh, expertise or education based products. It's both because it's an integrated strategy.

Speaker B: Yep. That URL again is theplaybook. Email sign up or you can always

Speaker A: go to unemployable.com and hit that blue button and it'll take you to, uh, the list. Um, but yeah, if, uh, you're interested in. You're a podcast only type person, go ahead and get on the email list for that because that'll be the only way that it'll be offered. Um, and, uh, I guess we're gonna talk more. Jared, what do you, what do you want to know? Next week I m. Want you to

Speaker B: get caught up on Succession. I want to talk about it with you.

Speaker A: I can't do. I really did try to. Everyone raves about it. And I watched the first episode and I'm like, no, I hate these people. I mean, you're supposed to hate them, right?

Speaker B: You're supposed to hate them. It's okay.

Speaker A: I don't enjoy. See my entertainment. I don't get off on hating the characters.

Speaker B: Well, no, here's the thing though. I was listening to a great, uh, podcast about Succession, talking about a lot of prestige television and like the trick of television. And it's because you spend so much time with these characters, but they're loathsome, but you still end up kind of rooting for them just because of the proximity and the time you've spent. But you step back, you're like, oh, my God. All these people should just suffer and fight.

Speaker A: I think Yellowstone is the same way. Like, they're all terrible people.

Speaker B: Uh, I couldn't get into that one. Succession, I find. Well, it's really well written. That's why I think you would like it. But the dialogue is good.

Speaker A: But you also watched Silicon Valley, didn't you?

Speaker B: I did not watch Silicon Valley.

Speaker A: Oh, you didn't? Okay. Who used to watch. Sean used to watch Silicon Valley. He thought it was hilarious. I'm like, that's not funny. I think those people exist.

Speaker B: Well, I know, I know.

Speaker A: Um, all right, I'll see what I can do. I mean, I already know the guy dies. That was the biggest, you know, early season spoiler for people who don't even watch the show. You couldn't avoid it.

Speaker B: Well, it's called Succession. He had to die at some point so that they could succeed him.

Speaker A: Well, I thought maybe the last episode, but that was the whole rug pull on that one. We're not going to wait to the end of the last season. We're going to do it now.

Speaker B: Yeah, I, uh, I'd give it another shot. I think you'd like it.

Speaker A: All right,

Speaker B: cool. So, theplaybook email. That is the URL. And we will be back soon. Soon with another episode.

Speaker A: Take care, everyone.