Humans of Youwe: Diana, CFO, on people-first leadership, AI in finance, and breaking the mould

Speaker A: Hello and welcome back to the podcast. I'm here today with our cfo, Chief Finance Officer, Diana Van Lambolgen. Diana, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining me today. How are you?

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. I'm doing good, actually. I was looking forward to this recording. So I'm curious to find out what it is that we are going to discuss today. Okay, great.

Speaker A: Well, let's get into it then. My first question is, if someone outside ue, or even within ue, asked you to describe in one sentence what a CFO actually does, what would you tell them?

Speaker B: M. Wow. I do know what a CFO does, but then you get a static standard answer of what it is that every job profile says. But if you look at being a CFO at ue, I think that's slightly different because UE is a classic digital agency where a lot of dynamics is going on. It is also an international agency, which means that we have to do with all the differences between, uh, different countries, such as uk, Sweden, Indonesia, Kiev, uh, Ukraine, of course. So that is all part of the dynamics within being a CFO of UI. So, yes, there are a lot of CFOs who are in an international environment, but I think the combination with being a digital agency is something else.

Speaker A: That's an interesting answer because when you tell me finance, right, I really picture spreadsheets, reporting and money controlling costs. But I've seen that you describe it more as a strategic compass. So what does that mean for you in practice?

Speaker B: It actually means that you have to steer along with where the wind is going, actually. So we have our CEO Rob and executive committee as a team who is. Well, they defined a goal for the upcoming years where UE wants to go. And from a finance perspective, as cfo, you are kind of the steering women, in my case, as I'm a female, of course. So when the executive committee or uh, our CEO says this is the way that we are going, the dots on the horizon, then it is my job to say, okay, from a financial perspective, this is the way to go. This is what we can add. This is what we should stop doing. This is where we should focus on. And yeah, within ue, we have to think about our customers from all over the world. So that is, yeah, those are different dynamics, definitely.

Speaker A: Really cool. So I really get this image of like a boat sailing through the ocean.

Speaker B: So that's it actually is, uh, cool.

Speaker A: And I saw in an interview with you previously that you said when you joined yui, you started by focusing on the people and understanding the team before starting to change processes. What made you choose that starting point?

Speaker B: Well, in theory, everything is possible. Everything. You can put it in writing and then it looks like an amazing way to go. The process looks amazing on paper, but in the end, people have to process it. People have an opinion, people have emotions, people are part of the process and they are the ones who have to actually do or perform within this process. So whatever you do, you can, you can automated with AI, you can put it in a ERP system, but as long as the person behind the system, the person who is entering the right prompt in an agent, an AI agent, nothing good is ever coming from that. So when people are not motivated or don't feel the need to add value to your company. Yeah. Why should you start with the process? Because if they don't feel it, if they don't want to contribute. Yeah. What's the goal then? In the end, the team has to process everything within finance, including myself. So if we are not motivated at all, who's going to do it? Why would you do it? Why would you even participate in the process or even in the team within Yuri?

Speaker A: That makes a lot of sense actually.

Speaker B: I hope so.

Speaker A: That's a mark of a true leader right there.

Speaker B: Thank you.

Speaker A: You touched upon this already A little bit. So you often talk about value creation over volume. So not just doing things for the sake of doing things, but ue being a services company where we often still talk about hours and rates, how would you shift the conversation towards creating real value for clients?

Speaker B: Talking less about hours and more about the added value for our clients. The client in the end needs a solution. He doesn't need an Excel sheet where it says that we work the hours that we promised to work. It has to do with the ultimate solution where the customer is happy. For example, if you buy a house and it still needs to be built and the contractor says, I'm going to put in like 200 hours and then I think we have a house. Uh, lovely. I'll sign there. It is a proper price. The hourly rate looks good. So yeah, let's go. But what if the contractor has put in 200 hours and I don't have a roof? What am I supposed to do then? So, and the added value for you, we should be in adding the roof to the entire construction. Make sure that it is what the client needs and what the client has asked for. As long as we don't perform in that way, the client is not happy. So we can put in as many hours as we Would like. The customer can pay as many hours to whatever rate that we have offered them, but in the end, if he's not happy, they won't come back. We have a unsatisfied, ah, client and. And then what? What did we do? Were we happy what we have offered the client, or is it something that he or she is happy with? Are we happy with the end result? No, because we are focusing on ours and not only actual added value, the. Well, the ultimate house that we have built in some way that makes a

Speaker A: lot of sense as well. Yeah. Um, like how you were mentioning it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: If you're building a house, you really need a stable foundation, and stability is something that you often mention as the foundation for growth. So how do you balance out that stable foundation with the need for innovating and moving quickly? Especially, you know, in this digital world where Yiwi operates in that moves so fast.

Speaker B: Good question. A solid foundation can only be there when there is some sort of stability. And I think with the, uh, people that we have in our team, like I call them, the smart people, the people who actually know what it is that we're doing, they should be in a stable environment. And then, um, besides the stable environment for the people, there should also be a small group of people who have a lookout in the market of what is needed and where the next innovations are. So they are the more dynamic part of the process, so to say. Because the builder or the contractor is just building the foundation, he is not on the lookout for any new innovations. That's only maybe 1% of the entire time that they invest in building the house. So when you have somebody building the foundation, you also need somebody for the lookout for new innovations, for maybe new concrete or new way of building in order to make it even more stable or to have actual additions for the future or something new. So I think that should be two separate teams maybe, or a separate environment within ue. And from what I've seen is that that is already going on. So I think that's a very good way to go because, well, in the end we still have customers who we work for, so that is something that we still need to provide. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. So the previous episode of this podcast was actually with Jito, who is our Chief Growth Officer, of course. So I'm guessing he is like your counterpoint in terms of you are the steering woman on the boat and he is the one with the telescope working with the outlook.

Speaker B: Yeah, he is. Yeah, he is. Nice. Yeah, we work together very closely.

Speaker A: I mean, touched upon it A little bit before when you talked about AI automating things. Right. So what I wanted to maybe go into is that of course, technology and the rate at uh, which is changing, especially with AI, it's changing almost every single part of the business super, super fast. From your perspective as a cfo, how is this changing the role of finance inside companies such as ui?

Speaker B: I am happy to be, uh, working for Yiwi in the AI era. And why? Because a lot of companies are hesitant in using AI, especially when it comes to finances. The thing is that finance is basically a very conservative part of the company and we do things because we do them all the time like this, so nothing ever changes really. But the opportunity to have AI actively, uh, being an active part of our finance and processes is a huge advantage for us as ui. What we have figured is that we can actually generate our annual reporting with the help of AI within a few hours, where we have asked for a, uh, price indication from our accountant to help us out with the exact same annual accounts. And they asked us for €40,000 40k for them to create the annual account. So. And it costed us like for maybe five hours to get a rough outline of that exact same annual report. So I was well, surprised to find out, uh, that this is actually possible for us to do. And I think that's a huge advantage if you are working in a company like ue. If you have access to the resources and they give you the room you need to just explore and learn and make room for mistakes so that you can actually improve stuff. And it's amazing and it is mind blowing from my perspective to figure out that I can actually replace somebody who is costing me 40k and just do it by myself in four or five hours. It's mind blowing. I would have never thought that that would ever be possible, actually.

Speaker A: Yeah. And it's also really cool that you're not scared of it because, you know, I speak to so many people who are like, oh, but you know, AI is out of control. It's going to mess everything up. We don't know what it's doing. But in your case, I'm um, hearing that you're using it really as a tool to optimize processes to do the manual parts. That would take a lot of time and cost a lot of money, clearly. Um, but that you're firmly m in control of it and firmly checking that what it is doing is not going off the tracks.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah. I think it's a addition in the process as long as you do not try to replace a primary process, because that's a whole different thing. We didn't try that. We are not there yet. But just the end version of an annual accounts report. Yeah, I never thought that would even be possible in the way that it came out. So that is. Yeah, that's mind blowing. Really cool.

Speaker A: Um, and speaking of the finance sector being quite traditional and conservative, it has also traditionally been quite a male dominated field, especially at the executive level where you are at now. Right. So has being, um, this role shaped how you approach leadership or decision making at all?

Speaker B: For the past few years I was looking for the female finance executive who could be a role model for me. And I was struggling because I couldn't find any, well, not any women at all within finance in an executive position. So that sucks actually, because I think we as women should team up and be better together. Well, hence I couldn't find a exact role model for me. So I figured, okay, so what do we do now? Because it is male dominated, there are only male role models in that case for me. And I was like, okay, so what am I going to do? Am I going to be a more, um, masculine executive or am I just going to be myself? And well, I chose the second option actually, and I figured let's just be who I am. And I think, well, uh, we have worked for quite some time now together and you've seen me within my role and I think putting people first, it's not unique, hopefully. But I do think that is something more of a feminine approach than it is a male approach. And I hope I can be an example for other people as well. Maybe as a female executive. Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: Other people will be looking up female executives in tech and your name is

Speaker B: going to pop up, hopefully. I don't know, actually. No, I don't know. No, that would be remarkable. No, uh, I don't know, actually. I have no idea. Maybe, maybe there are many years to come, so maybe in the future. Yeah, nice.

Speaker A: Well, leadership roles can be quite intense though. I can imagine. Because also, you know, in functions like finance, they carry quite a lot of responsibility for the whole business. So how do you personally maintain balance and perspective outside of your work?

Speaker B: Oh, good question. That is very difficult. Yeah, I'm also in the middle of my studies, also an executive MBA in tios, which is, well, not very hard, but it is a lot to prepare. It cost me a lot of time and to keep the balance. Yeah, what I do is mainly schedule time just for me and it is very hard to follow through with the time schedule. But for example, I start my day at seven in the morning just to make sure that I get home on time and just have some time to breathe, take some time for. Just to have dinner, spend time with family and friends and yeah, go out for yoga classes in the evening. I do read a lot. I have a lot of hobbies, so I like to paint, actually. And that gives me also a lot of time to think and, uh, to reflect. But yeah, you should schedule it for me. That's the only way to go. There's no other way. If you just let go with the flow throughout the day, then before you know it, it's gone and then what? So, yeah, schedule it, if that is what you need.

Speaker A: Yeah. Are you also one of those people who schedules their weekends? Because I know that I am.

Speaker B: Well, no. What I did do is I schedule maybe one activity per day, a maximum, to make sure that I have enough room to breathe and just to relax and charge my battery of a full week. Yeah. So that is something I keep in mind though. Yeah, I do schedule as well, I guess. Oh my God.

Speaker A: Yeah. Otherwise I lose my mind and like, what was I supposed to do? Oh, yeah, Groceries. Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, that is. Yeah, that is something. Yeah.

Speaker A: On, um, to my last question, actually, looking ahead a few years, how do you see the finance team at UE evolving and what role do you hope that your finance team will play in shaping the future of the company?

Speaker B: Uh, yeah, so the theme is coming from a very anonymous role, I guess. So they were the people who were sitting there doing stuff on their computers with Excel. Maybe for the future, I would like them to have more of an active role within UE or in whatever business. I think finance should not just be the silent people in the corner who are working in Excel. They should also participate in what's going on within the company. And I know traditionally finance people are quite, well, maybe conservative, maybe a bit introvert, but if you get to know them, they have a good sense of humor and they are actually very fun, mostly smart people, which is also very nice to work with them. But no, they should be more within the company, especially within ue, because there's a lot going on. And I think most people who work in finance have a good sense of what's going on, uh, or should be going on when it comes to the processes throughout the company. And when they play a bigger part, a bigger role within the company, are more active within the company, they can also actively help in shaping the processes. As I said before, finance is a well, it's the last one to know of any activities within a company, so they also. Well, the last to know if something went wrong or if something needs to be changed or for whatever reason. And if they have a more active role within the company, they can actively participate in whatever needs to change up front. So, yeah, that's what I hope for them and for myself as well. That would be nice.

Speaker A: Yeah. So sitting down between the different teams, checking what's happening, breaking down all the silos, as we say.

Speaker B: Right. It shouldn't be just me speaking because I am not finance. We, the team is finance. And I think, well, I cannot do anything by myself. I need them and we need each other in order to make everything right. And so other people within finance should also have a role. Something I'm thinking about, so don't tell them yet. I don't want to scare them, but who knows?

Speaker A: Really cool. Well, thank you so much for championing your team so well and for being such a, ah, people first leader. I really appreciate that. Of course. I really love seeing women in leadership positions. So it's great to have you in that role as cfo. Is there anything that you would like to add?

Speaker B: Nothing I can think of for now. Thank you for having me. Yeah, of course.

Speaker A: Thank you so much for taking the time to join me on the podcast. And, um, we'll talk soon.

Speaker B: Okay, thank you. Bye.

Speaker A: Bye.