"Wear Many Hats" Podcast · 2026-07-02 · 53 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
34 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Iain McDonald's path to managing Alexandra Palace's 7.5-acre estate reveals how practical trade skills, mentorship, and genuine passion for historic buildings can compound into senior facility management roles. Starting as a plasterer at Bakers of Danbury (founded 1876), a specialist in church and stone masonry restoration, McDonald learned quality-first craftsmanship that became his foundation. He expanded into multiple trades - electrical work, plumbing, decorating - while running his own contracting business, before returning to Bakers as a site manager on new-build projects at historic sites including Charterhouse and St. Paul's Cathedral. His breakthrough came at Westminster Abbey, where he worked as a contractor on major capital projects (roof reconstruction, fountains, infirmary work) before securing the permanent Deputy Surveyor of the Fabric role during COVID. That experience managing a Grade I listed building during lockdown - when visitor revenue disappeared and he had the Abbey largely to himself - prepared him for his current position overseeing Alexandra Palace's operations, maintenance, and capital projects. McDonald emphasizes that success came less from formal qualifications and more from attitude, willingness to learn on the job, and gravitating toward work that genuinely interested him.
Iain McDonald has no formal academic qualifications but trained as a plasterer at Bakers of Danbury (historic restoration specialist founded 1876) and later earned electrical and plumbing certifications while running his own contracting business; he learned facility management through on-site experience at Westminster Abbey and other Grade I listed buildings.
After years as a contractor at Westminster Abbey managing capital projects like roof reconstruction and fountain installation, he interviewed for and secured the Deputy Surveyor of the Fabric role, managing the entire building and its systems during COVID when the organization faced financial pressures from lost visitor revenue.
Alexandra Palace is a 7.5-acre historic London venue that Iain McDonald now manages as Head of Property and Facilities; it's a striking beacon building visible from across the city and hosts events like Norman J (a music festival).
Despite earning reasonably well, he was working seven days a week, traveling long distances, and not achieving work-life balance; he was struggling to support employees and their mortgages, prompting him to return to Bakers as a site manager for better stability.
McDonald had the Abbey largely to himself (except for the clergy who live there), which was surreal but productive for getting major work done; however, the organization lost ticket revenue and had to find alternative financing, creating financial pressure during that period.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode is overwhelmingly biographical career narrative with minimal operational insight. Two brief moments - ice thickness affecting energy consumption and the long-term vs. reactive maintenance framing - have potential but are never developed into actionable depth. The rest is personal anecdote and filler.
The energy you could burn just alone by having it too thick.
Um, yeah, I suppose, um. Well, like most, really at school. Yeah. Sort of, um. Kind of never. I never did brilliantly at school.
The 'historic buildings demand long-term thinking' framing is the episode's one mildly distinctive angle, but it is stated rather than argued and never pushed into genuinely contrarian territory. The best advice offered is a widely circulated aphorism, and the AI commentary is purely surface-level.
Listen, to understand is definitely the best piece of advice.
if you look at it from the long term, um, point of view, then what could be more sustainable than, um, historic building?
Ian McDonald is a legitimate hands-on practitioner with real operational responsibility for Grade II listed buildings of genuine national significance - Westminster Abbey coronation and Queen's funeral, St. Paul's, now Alexandra Palace. He is credibly an operator not a talking head, though his seniority and strategic influence are modest within the broader FM landscape.
it definitely was a privileged and an honor to be part of the funeral.
And obviously then coronation for King Charles.
A handful of named venues, organisations and figures (Bakers of Danbury, Martin Fletcher at St. Paul's, specific projects like the Victorian bridge and panorama room) give the episode some texture, but there are no cost figures, energy-saving percentages, team headcounts, or before/after metrics anywhere. The ice rink energy point is the most concrete insight and it is left entirely undeveloped.
7 and a half acres of building
they were kind of formed in 1876.
The host is warm and engaged but asks exclusively soft, biographical questions with no follow-up challenges, no requests for data or evidence, and no productive pushback at any point. Agreement and affirmation dominate throughout, leaving every interesting claim (AI adoption, ESG outcomes, sustainability ROI) completely unexplored.
What a wonderful place to work.
Well done, you. It's lovely.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Another great episode of the Wear Many Hats podcast. This time, we sit down with Iain McDonald, Head of Property & Facilities at Alexandra Palace, to explore a career journey built through hard work, craftsmanship, and a passion for historic buildings. Iain shares how he left school without strong qualifications, became a father at a young age, and started knocking on doors looking for work before discovering the trade and construction industry. From plastering and restoration work to managing projects at St Paul’s Cathedral, Westminster Abbey, and now Alexandra Palace, Iain reflects on the experiences that shaped his career and his deep connection to historic buildings. We also discuss leadership, preserving heritage sites, managing large operational venues, and balancing modern-day demands with long-term restoration and maintenance strategies. Iain shares honest insights into building teams, learning through experience, and why passion and work ethic can sometimes matter more than traditional career paths. A fascinating and grounded conversation about growth, resilience, and building a meaningful career through hands-on experience.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome to another episode of Wear Many Hats.
Speaker B: Welcome.
Speaker A: My name's Rachel and this is the podcast totally dedicated to the FM and workplace industry. Today we have a wonderful guest with us. Uh, quite excited for this podcast. Um, we have Ian McDonald with us. He is the head of property and engineering at Alexandra Palace. Welcome, Ian.
Speaker B: Oh, yeah, thanks for having me.
Speaker A: It's really good to have you here. Did you. Did you come from Alipalli today? Or can I say Alley Pali?
Speaker B: Sorry, that's exactly how we call it. I mean, uh, it's an easy roll off a tongue name.
Speaker A: It is, isn't it? Yes.
Speaker B: Come from there today. Uh, an hour away, so not too bad down the W3.
Speaker A: Lovely. Thank you so much. I'm, uh, I'm m looking forward to this one and hearing about your career. Um, I'm a. I'm a. I still say I'm a regular, but I go once a year to Alexandra palace for a certain event and I love it up there. It's just beautiful. What a wonderful place to work.
Speaker B: Lots of good stuff going. What do you see there? What have you seen?
Speaker A: I see Norman J. Every year. Yeah. Uh, this will be my third year going, so it's, uh, lovely, lovely venue. Um, very special. But, um. Yeah. So thanks for coming and, uh, let's rewind a bit.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Go back to past. So where did it all start for you?
Speaker B: Um, yeah, I suppose, um. Well, like most, really at school. Yeah. Sort of, um. Kind of never. I never did brilliantly at school. Wasn't, um. The most, uh. I say articulate and kind of. Your education wasn't really my thing. But, um, I think it, you know, on reflection, actually, it's probably just because it wasn't the platform for me. It's the right environment because. Yeah, I kind of just bumbled my way through and did what I could. But, um, I think from there, because I didn't come out with any, you know, sort of loads of qualifications and degrees and something, I kind of. I suppose I sort of did fall into that. That category of, you know, like what he did back then. Go on. The tools kind of change. Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, it was, um. But, you know, now again, when you start thinking about it even more. And it was always destined, really. Yeah, it was kind of. My dad was a tradesman, which is an unusual trade, actually. He was a taxidermist, so kind of.
Speaker A: Oh, wow.
Speaker B: Bit of a. Yeah, a bit of a. Strange.
Speaker A: That's a niche.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So my childhood was, uh, growing up around lots of sort of animals around the house. Let's just say that. Yeah. So it was, uh. But, you know, he just said to me once, you know, get yourself a trade and you'll.
Speaker A: It's true. Yeah. Even more so now.
Speaker B: Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think so. But, you know, I kind of took that quite literally. Um, and then went, well, okay, I will. But you know what? It wasn't even that because I had, uh, my first. My daughter, Ah. Quite young, so I was only 19. And, um, that was what I needed. That probably. It's not my. That.
Speaker A: Yes. No, no, that.
Speaker B: That whole kind of is what I needed. Uh, because in reality, what I needed is something to go out there and work for.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Rather than just sort of fumbling around like I think I did at school, just to go, what am I here for? And why am I here? But, yeah, as soon as she came along, it was like, oh, I've got.
Speaker A: I gotta knuckle down.
Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it was, um. M a quick kind of, um. Even to this day, actually, now I think about it, it was the right thing to do. I just literally marched around plenty of places, knocking on doors, going, you know, give me a job. I want a job. You know, have you got anything? And it was a numbers game. And eventually someone turned around to me, went, oh, I really like your attitude. Yes, come on, crack on.
Speaker A: It is refreshing.
Speaker B: Um, so that was, uh, a window and door company, so nothing too exciting, but that was where I kind of got the. The taste for plastering.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Sort of making good windows and things around me. So it was kind of like, well, that's a bit more interesting, actually. I had a mate that was a plasterer too. So it's kind of like, all right, yeah, let's do that. And from there. Yeah, I guess the. The progression went on from there, really, because, um, that didn't last long. It lasted a couple of years before I got to a point where I was thinking, well, now I'm doing all the hours. I'm working really hard. I'm not getting paid anything. I'm learning. So you get to a point anyway, don't you?
Speaker A: Where. What else is there out there?
Speaker B: And again, the HL knocking on people's door. And, uh, I think luck would have it, walked into a company around near where my parents live still, actually, um, Bakers of Danbury is the company. They're in Danbury, funny enough. And, uh, I kind of walked in there with the same attitude, same kind of, you know, hello, um, you know,
Speaker A: looking for a job. Yeah.
Speaker B: Exactly. 21, 22 kind of thing. Uh, you know, you know, I'm a plasterer. Can you help me out? And I think, like I say, I mean, bit of luck. People were like, yeah, you know, we like that attitude. And I stayed there for years, so. And learned lots.
Speaker A: Okay. That particular company that was meant to be.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So learned how plaster. Uh, um, within the historical environment. Actually, I should mention they are kind of like this, uh, niche. They were. They were formed in 1876.
Speaker A: Gosh.
Speaker B: So they were kind of one of. At the time, um, one of the only companies out there that restore churches, stone masonry. There was very few people out there at the time that did that.
Speaker A: I think there probably still is very few.
Speaker B: Well, it's got a bit more now, but it was certainly even more niche. And it's the business. But they were kind of one of a few and sort of felt quite lucky really, to stumble in somewhere like that with the. Yeah. With the work ethic and sort of, um, the foundations that they have in that. So I was thinking about this, how. How grounded they are and they still are.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: I actually went over there not so long ago, just had a chat with them, just because, you know, when you think I haven't spoken to them, I love that. And you know what? Even when I walked in there, it was sort of exactly the same. Building, office, people.
Speaker A: It works.
Speaker B: Yeah, no, exactly. And I think that's where I really bred all my foundation for where I work and how I work and my work ethic. From m. From them being such a. A good sort of grassroots company.
Speaker A: Yeah, like solid. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Just like not trying to be anything. They.
Speaker A: They weren't. Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, honest, um, traditional.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, rather do a good job. You know, most contractors now don't want to just sort of earn the money and leg. Yeah, they're. They're not like that.
Speaker A: Ah, yeah. They've got reputation, haven't they?
Speaker B: When you've been around for that long, I think it's more about, you know,
Speaker A: what you're doing, isn't it?
Speaker B: Yeah, so. So I think, you know, I think that is. I was lucky.
Speaker A: Yeah, well, you did bang on the door, so you made your own luck there. Lovely. Um, and so. So where did you go on from there? Obviously you were with them for. For quite a while. What. What did you. What. What happened? Yeah, because now you've got your historical.
Speaker B: Well, I mean. Yeah, so there I was doing a lot of, um. It was mixed, really. A lot of structural repairs, of insurance work. So a lot of Houses falling down, putting them back together again. And it kind of got to a point where you start, you know, once you've seen a house in pieces, you start to figure out quite easily and quickly how to put them back together again. So, you know, back then it was, it was with a bunch of guys who were uh, um, really good at what they do. No one's stressing about how much they've got to get done that day. It's just more about quality than anything. So you know, we bred that quality within the teams. But you know, I think what happened was within the industry there was a bit of a, ah, boom actually. There was lots of insurance work going on and I think a lot of people were earning lots of money elsewhere. I think the, what happened is the, the manager there, Keith's ah, name was, he sort of pulled us all aside and said, um, you know what, we've got a bit of a, sort of a threat to the industry. If m we were in the Premier League is how we put it. Now we're being relegated to the first because what there is out there now is a lot of companies out there taking all the work.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So I kind of, my entrepreneur in me picked my ears up and was like, okay, and found out where that work was coming from. Right. And I went off and started on my own. Which is uh, of course, as I said with the little. And you know, sort of always trying to push myself. That time I was thinking, right, I just need to, yeah, earn well and that can only be for myself sort of thing. So take control of my own destiny, so to speak.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And from there, when I started learning all the trades really, because, you know, I started doing it for m myself. So, um, yes, you know, plasterer by trade.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But it's it then soon, soon does lead into decorating, doesn't it? Because let's be honest, I mean if you're, if you're plastering a whole house,
Speaker A: you might, you know it now, might as well finish it.
Speaker B: But then your kitchen fit in and then it's handy. Yeah, yeah. And then, and then I think the only thing that I didn't know how to do, which after a few rookie mistakes, plastering houses and then getting your electrician, um, to come in and test out for you and say, mate, all your circuits need rewiring and you think,
Speaker A: well, that you've just gone over.
Speaker B: So I think that happened to me once and I learned quite quickly, quickly to go, maybe, maybe let's go and do that. So then, um, I've done all qualifications from electricians, so I started to just. Yeah. Started to do it all, really.
Speaker A: You could literally build a house. How about the plumbing? Have you did.
Speaker B: Yeah, well, yes, indeed. That's what I mean, when you start doing kitchens. Bathrooms, of course. Yeah. Um, I think the only thing I stayed away from is gas.
Speaker A: Yes. I knew you were going to.
Speaker B: Well, yeah, I mean, uh. I mean, there's a few things that used to scare me. Water, gas and electric. Water, water. Bear in mind if you've got something firing at you. Yeah. Three and a half bar. You know, it's scary. Electric. I overcome that. And. And gas. I just thought, yeah, let's, let's.
Speaker A: Let's we leave it there, we get someone else in.
Speaker B: But. Yeah, I mean, I think that's where, you know, along with the roots of where I come from, the kind of solid, um, quality background that I had real pride in what I do. Um, going back to my dad as well. Being on the tools. Always.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Really. You know, he was like. I say he was a taxidermist, but I mean, literally the best that there was. He was, you know, he was the chairman of the guild. He was, he was on telly a number of times. St Done. Um. Yeah, you met Denise Van out. And I remember that. Never, never forget that. Very jealous. But, you know, but, you know, the point is he was just very good at what he did. And I think I just took that. Because you take pride in what you do.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And you.
Speaker A: You wanted to follow that in your trades.
Speaker B: Yeah. So, uh, yeah, that was, that was how I think I got m. Relatively good, let's just say modestly, at what I did.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, but then, uh, from there to where I am now is kind of quite a solid jump, really, because that's where it was just, um, not planned. I mean, I think I probably. If you were to ask me 20 years ago what you'd be doing, I think I'd probably just say, yeah, I'd be doing up houses.
Speaker A: Yeah. Because that's it. You think you.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. It's easy work. I don't know what. I know what it is, but. But what actually happened was, in reality, when I had my own business, uh, you know, you don't always earn as well as you want. You work hard. You do seven days a week.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You travel lots of distances. You price jobs up at the weekend. You chase up money, you know, and eventually after you're doing that, looking after a bunch of people that also are reliant on your mortgage, then, you know you sort of. And you're not.
Speaker A: It's a lot.
Speaker B: Yeah. And you're not, you're not getting the right kind of balance between life and money. Yeah, yeah. You start looking, don't you?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And that's where I was approached to uh, go back to Bakers, which is, uh, uh, great that they had me even after just diving off and.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Some work and um, yeah. Went on to be a site manager then for all their, um. It was predominantly their department was new build onto historic sites.
Speaker A: Right.
Speaker B: So that's where I really started dabbling into old buildings. And um, I mean I worked on plenty of them before. Yeah, Bakers. But actually doing these massive projects and managing that, that was my first kind of, uh, steering to the industry. So yeah, I mean there was some amazing jobs with them. Um, I mean, 16th century chapel rebuild. Um, Charterhouse just around the corner.
Speaker A: Lovely.
Speaker B: From there, sort of.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, uh, St. Paul's Cathedral. Cathedral. And then eventually onto Westminster Abbey, which is then where I ended up later on. So. But you know, there was a massive journey in between then of course that.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Running sites.
Speaker A: So.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: And then you were there about four. Just, oh, nearly five years.
Speaker B: Yeah, I was there. Well, no, that's the funny thing actually because I was there as a contractor for about three years.
Speaker A: Oh, I see.
Speaker B: And then went on. So then go as, uh. Yeah, join Deputy Carca Works, which was managing, uh, the building and everything in and around that.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: You know, is, is, is the industry now that I sort of fell into. I mean it was, it was St. Paul's that kind of got me to a point where I stood outside that building and was like, yeah, wow.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's a, that's stunning. Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah. I've kind of already been, uh, doing site work as a manager for a while and you kind of start bouncing around these sites for six months to a year. Because that's generally how long the projects are. Yeah, some or three months actually. And then you sort of think I'd be nice to settle um, down, not bounce around. And there was a guy there, uh, Martin Fletcher, uh, at St. Paul's where I was doing some of the jobs. Less, Less attractive jobs. Yeah, I reinstalled the toilets over at
Speaker A: St. Paul's look, someone's, someone needs to do it. Freedom. Yeah. You know, it's a very important job.
Speaker B: Exactly that. But you know what? All joker decide. It was a, a, ah, really quick program, um, within a grade one listed building, uh, with all the intricacies around an uh, historic site, you know, we were in the foundations, we're in the vaults. Um, we were pulling everything apart and that. You can't take that lightly. I mean, yeah, literally you have to be. Everything is thought through and planned because clearly you can't be doing any reversible damage. It needs to be.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
Speaker B: Done properly. You know, just smash through these things.
Speaker A: No, of course not.
Speaker B: It's careful work. Uh, yeah. I think I learned there from Martin how it must have felt when I was standing back looking at him, thinking, yeah, you know, being in charge of a building, knowing how it all works, running all the works that go on in the building, all the capital projects, uh, I sort of look back to him and thought, yeah, that's. I mean that, that seemed better. That seemed like a better approach. And wouldn't it be lovely to stay in one of these lovely buildings?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So the historic side and the, um, the head of property was then on my.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: On my sites. So. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: And then you move to where you are now.
Speaker B: Uh, well, no, so.
Speaker A: Oh, hang on.
Speaker B: And then I went to Westminster Abbey.
Speaker A: Oh, yeah, sorry. So, yeah.
Speaker B: So, yeah. So from then again, like I said, I finished that job and the next job that come up was at, uh, the Abbey. And I think it was kind of naive at the time because it was, oh, you're going to Westminster Abbey. I was like, where's that? I mean, obviously I knew it was Westminster, but I didn't know as much as obviously, clearly I do now about how important the building was for, um, the national importance. It was kind of like, all right, okay, let's go and have a look. And I remember doing the interview for, um, the actual contractor job. So, you know, when you tender in for a job, the sort of four of you sort of turn up.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And you turn up and you. They're trying to test out who's the best contractor for the job. Right. And I remember turning up and we were sitting in this massive, great room and you know, just thinking, oh my God, you know, what am I? I'm in this, you know, I mean, grand isn't. You know, it's grand, you know, and. And uh, I remember looking across the table to uh, guy called Jim, who was a car works blessing me. He's passed away now. He's a lovely, uh, guy and he was in the panel and you know when you just click, you know, look.
Speaker A: Eye contact. Yeah.
Speaker B: And he was, he was a sparks as well.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And sort of. I'm going to sound common, but, you know, I've got that Kind of like Essex about me. He's. He was not Essex, but he was all right, mate, you know, and you just. We just clicked.
Speaker A: Clicked, yeah.
Speaker B: And I think from there kind of almost knew we'd got the job just from that, which was crazy, really. I mean, I could have been well wrong, but I walked out of there thinking, yeah, I've got on well with him.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then sure enough, you got the job. Got the job as a contractor. So.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then I ended up doing job after job after job pulling, uh, the roofs. We've done all the South Triforian roofs. We've done. Put new fountains in, we've done our. Oh, I love reception areas. Done. What else do I do? The infirmary, you know, there's job after job.
Speaker A: So you really got to know the building.
Speaker B: I did. And so that's when you start looking back, don't you? And you start thinking, you know, how nice is it? You're part of the, the furniture, so to speak, uh, the community within a building. You, uh, get that sense of connection from that, that the actual historic side of the building, which I, ah, kind of think is what gravitates me towards this old buildings, you know, that feeling that you get.
Speaker A: Um, grandeur.
Speaker B: Yeah. And. And I say, you know, it's there and it's going to be there.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Forever. You know, you look after and. Right. That's the whole point. So you feel that kind of connection and it. And it sort of got to me there and I thought, I just can't leave. It's just, you know, I can't leave and what can I do to stay? And sure enough, the job came up and yeah, after a grueling, uh, executive, um, interviews. After interviews and like. Oh, God, pretty much like this. But then, you know, panel discussions, somehow I managed to get it.
Speaker A: Gosh, that sounds grueling. It was worth it, though.
Speaker B: It was, it was, it was. And then. Yeah, so I've done me dummy due there. Um, yeah, that was all through, Covid. Let's not forget, you know.
Speaker A: So you still having to go in?
Speaker B: Yeah, I never got. Yeah, I never got furloughs.
Speaker A: Not many of you did.
Speaker B: No. So that was, uh, one of those times in my life that was surreal.
Speaker A: I know.
Speaker B: I mean, being in London, sitting actually, you know, a couple of times went out on the roof just to take stock of, oh, there is no one there. Where is everyone? You know Parliament Square.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And there's no one there kind of thing.
Speaker A: Lazy times and.
Speaker B: And, yeah. But yeah, every day going in as it was, you know, just. We pretty much had the Abbey to ourselves. It was the abbey. If, you know, the abbey, have people live there. So there is the clergy there that do live there.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: There's, um. Uh, you know, a community that is locked down. Yeah. So it was the gates, like that.
Speaker A: Oh, wow.
Speaker B: There was just me coming in, you know, every now and then to keep the place going. So, um. Yeah, it was, yeah, surreal. But also, what a lovely time, M. To get loads done.
Speaker A: Yes, true. No disruptions. Yeah.
Speaker B: Although obviously the threat to money at that point. I mean. Yeah, they actually financed themselves through football. It's not how people think it is actually about the ticket holder. So with that gone pause, that was, yeah, you know, quite a.
Speaker A: Quite a. Yeah, yeah. Tough time.
Speaker B: Yeah. Um, but then thankfully, obviously, you know, go through all that. Thankfully.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And then, um. Yeah, done a few nice milestone projects and then gone to, uh, here I am now, palace, which, uh, again, just as grand, humongous building it is.
Speaker A: How many acres of it?
Speaker B: 7 and a half acres of building or building. Yeah. So, I mean, I. What I come in on the train. It's just. It's there up the whole train window, you know, from down at the train.
Speaker A: Terrific building.
Speaker B: Um, so it does. It's striking. It does get you.
Speaker A: You can see it from all over,
Speaker B: can't that kind of beacon on the top of the beautiful building. And so, uh. Yeah. And, uh. And now I'm lucky enough to look after it, so. Um.
Speaker A: Lovely. And we're going to talk about that more in a minute, but, um. Did you always know that you were going to end up on this path? We kind of answered that with you, with your dad and I mean. But I guess looking back, did you think you'd be here today?
Speaker B: Um, no, not at all. I think you do fall into things in a sense.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But I. I kind of think that I always just followed a passion. I didn't really do anything more than that other than, as I said, a bit of luck. Getting on a few doors and getting
Speaker A: the right job, putting yourself out there. More so than luck, I think.
Speaker B: But then you kind of. I mean, there was a number of choices along the way and, you know, I made the decisions I made because I had an interest in it and yeah, I had a passion. I could say the historic building column really grabbed me from an early age. So I kind of was always gravitating towards that and always, you know, learning line plastering at such a young age. I didn't even appreciate it that back Then because of course I was young.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Company that did that. Yeah. I just thought that was what everyone did.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know. No, it's only until later on that you start to realize actually how niche that is and actually how, you know, kind of, well, imperative companies like that and trades like that get sort of learned and so passed on.
Speaker A: But yeah, back then you don't think anything at the time.
Speaker B: But, um. So I think I fell into everything. But m. I followed a passion. So it wasn't luck. It was a bit of kind of hard work. This is the right way. Hard work. Yeah.
Speaker A: And choices.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker A: And. And you did mention a couple of people. But who or what gave you that real push in your career? I think your dad might have had some input in this as a kid.
Speaker B: Definitely that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, I've said it. Feel like I'm saying it a lot actually, because it is about the trades. And yes, he did say to me, literally, this is no lie. And I've said it so many times, I feel like I can't back it up. Go and get yourself a trade and you'll be fine. Because it's literally the words that come out of his mouth and it. And it is. Yeah, that was a push. And I suppose in hindsight you can say, yeah, his work ethic, um, passion for what he did does rub off on you, doesn't it?
Speaker A: Yeah. And.
Speaker B: And, and you know, you kind of do get that from your parents. It gets passed down. But no, I think Martin was another one that did definitely show me that. Oh, look at that role and what that could be.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And look at what everyone looks to when there's a problem. It's the, uh, person that knows everything about the building.
Speaker A: Y. Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, kind of that authority figure.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I think that was definitely a push for me to go. I could either, I mean, again, see choices. I could either have gone like a lot of people do. Let's go try to earn loads of money and site bashing kind of thing. Site manager, big sites, you know.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And then earn the money or. Or actually do something a bit more challenging. Rewarding. Working in these old places.
Speaker A: Niche. Yes.
Speaker B: Finding solutions around all the problems that inevitably. In these old places. Yeah, of course it's not like a new build.
Speaker A: No.
Speaker B: It's no knows what you're going to find when you pull it apart.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So, yeah, no, it's definitely the two of them definitely up there along with others.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course. And so what does a, um, day in your world look like now where you. What you're doing in your job.
Speaker B: Well, right now it feels like organized chaos at the moment.
Speaker A: Summer's coming up, isn't it? You go. I mean, you're busy all the year round, aren't you?
Speaker B: So I mean that. So if I've got some challenges in my work. It's being grade two listed and it's a, uh, heavily operational site. So we have, as you say, we got gigs all the time. There's events on and on and on. The theaters constantly going.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Ice rinks always all year round.
Speaker A: Oh, it's all year round.
Speaker B: All year round.
Speaker A: I didn't actually know that. Oh, yeah, we now. Yeah.
Speaker B: And, you know, so balancing what we have to do along with all the capital projects. I mean right now, I mean, up in the air, I've got a number of capital projects. Uh, we're looking to do a new panorama room, which should be, um, a lovely addition over on the south side.
Speaker A: Nice.
Speaker B: M. I'm just coming out of the tender stage now of a new security project. Security room project.
Speaker A: Right. Um, okay.
Speaker B: Complete upgrade on our security room.
Speaker A: Lovely.
Speaker B: Restoration of a bridge which is, uh, the original Victorian bridge. So we're. We're doing that, you know, so them up in the air as well as obviously, um, bringing a relatively new team through, actually. So. Yeah, yeah, I've been there now nearly three years.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I need to keep trying to take stock of that because I can't believe how quick, quick it's gone. But, uh, I've got a new team from what I had when I started. So, you know, bringing everyone through, uh, while the why is so busy, you know, there's so much to work around. That's the challenge.
Speaker A: Yeah, of course.
Speaker B: And you know, you got.
Speaker A: Yeah, I'm m. Recruiting them, I'm assuming.
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I'm m. I'm trying to. I mean, what was quite clear when I got there is that we needed a lot more. We had a. A skeleton of a team, really.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Couldn't really cope with the operational demands of building. I mean, as you say, is something going on all the time. So it's fast pace and it is constantly. Right, let's get on it. Let's get on it. You know, and having to keep up with that pace is really difficult.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You and someone else, you know, so, you know, growing. That was clear. And that doesn't happen overnight.
Speaker A: No. Um, find good people.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly that which I've now got lot.
Speaker A: Lovely.
Speaker B: Great, great bunch. Great team. And, uh, and the engineering team are Just amazing as well. We've got lots of um, working knowledge of the building that's been there for many years.
Speaker A: Oh lovely.
Speaker B: So we've got the nice mix now of we've got, we've got the learned behavior of what the building needs. We've got the new fresh outlook on what we have.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Really kind of get it going.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And, and yeah like I say with all the capital projects I don't think the place has been ever so busy. Balance kind of view.
Speaker A: Of course.
Speaker B: So yeah, just take extra.
Speaker A: Constantly evolving as well. You're opening new, refurbishing, recall. Yeah, it's constantly going round and round round.
Speaker B: A great two listed building.
Speaker A: Yeah. Things go wrong. Yeah. Gosh. Wearing many hats then.
Speaker B: Yes indeed.
Speaker A: I was going to say let's talk challenges but that's actually probably one of your challenges.
Speaker B: That is. Yeah. Uh, no, definitely. No it definitely is.
Speaker A: It's all the juggling of everything that you need to do. So you know you've mentioned a few bits especially around sort of the old with the new, uh, you know in terms of what people's skill sets. But where do you think the industry's heading and what excites you?
Speaker B: Um, yeah so I mean I think the industry as in the property team, I mean um, for me it's not, it's not about where it's heading, it's about the outlook on things. I think I'm lucky in a sense that I've as I said come from these old buildings and when you're looking at historic buildings you're not looking it in a short term um view, you're always looking, I mean whatever building you're in. So let's say uh, St. Paul's for example.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: 300 years old, you're sort of looking like of course it's going to go on for another long in the abbey, 750 years old. Well you know you're not looking at a uh, anything you do 10 to 15 years. You're looking long term. Same as Alipali, you know it's 150 years old.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I think you know where we're heading is the migration from not being so reactive which I think a lot of places are. It's all about reactive PPMs, you know. Yeah, yeah but more proactive long term vision. Look at uh, the long term game. Look at you know the 15, 20 year kind of down the line everything you do to try and get ahead
Speaker A: of yourself a little bit. I mean like you say you do react to stuff but yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Well, of course you've got two arms, haven't you? You've got to be that reactive service that everyone expects. You know, you've got, you know, something that breaks and calls you. Yeah, yeah. But then you've got the other element of it that, yeah, it's got to be around for another 150 years. So everything you do now, as I said, seven and a half acres of building. If I've got something that I've just worked on and it fails in one place in a year's time, and I keep doing that, that soon I'll be chasing my tower.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So if you look at it from everything you do have it with the view of longevity.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: 10, 15, 20, 30, 50 years, you'll
Speaker A: be saving yourself, yourself time.
Speaker B: Exactly. And that's where it leads straight into sustainability. Yes. In everything that you do, if you look at it from the long term, um, point of view, then what could be more sustainable than, um, historic building? Doing something that last rather than failing upon failing upon failing and yeah, reacting. So, Yeah, I mean, the answer to your question, I think is, is I think, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm kind of lucky from where being in a historic building is pointing in the right direction. Longevity. And I think a lot of others don't look at in the same way. So a new build that I'm not keep pointing outside. But there's all historic buildings outside and, uh.
Speaker A: This isn't though. No, this is what we're in.
Speaker B: They're sort of built to last 15, 20 years before they.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Turned around again.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And they almost accept that, you know, they're going to break in that amount of time.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
Speaker B: I think there's different mindsets, isn't there?
Speaker A: Yeah, I guess for the different types of buildings.
Speaker B: So.
Speaker A: Interesting. And AI, that's, um. Is that something that you, you use, you and your team, are you using it?
Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, um, yeah, it's crazy flipping from historical stuff to then to go into AI. Yeah. Because I mean, the fact of the matter is, I mean, if you're not jumping on board on that, then you're gonna fall behind. I mean, yeah, compliance obviously is a huge line in my job that needs, um, to be, you know, strictly adhered to.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: So when you're talking about AI modeling CAFM systems that make it all easier for you.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, streamlining processes and not to mention your, you know, your co pilots and your chatgpt, then. Yeah, absolutely. Why wouldn't you use it as a tool in Arsenal to sort ah of kind of do your job so you can focus on other things.
Speaker A: Yeah, exactly, yeah.
Speaker B: Managing a busy site around events.
Speaker A: So let's try and move things quicker, isn't it? By uh, using A.I. love that. We mentioned a little bit about ESG then, um, and sustainability, but what does it really mean to you and your work? What are you doing up there?
Speaker B: Yeah. So I mean not, not only, obviously everything we do, we're looking at the best ways of doing that. So it's not like we're doing lots of new builds.
Speaker A: Yes, exactly.
Speaker B: Wherever there is, your sustainability is of an item on the agenda.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But for me that is about longevity. It is about environmental kind of uh, I mean, what could be better about our building.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Being there long term, as I said, rather than kind of just break it, fix it, break it, fix it. So for me it is about the long term.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Decisions that we make on everything. Plus obviously doing all the right things. I mean we've been doing silently, I've got to say, under the radar for the last. Well since I got there nearly three years ago. Changing every LED and all the distribution boards all around site. I mean distribution boards not so much for energy efficiency, but obviously when you're going from a, you know, 90 watts sun lamp that's across, you know, which not only is a fire hazard, but to burning so much energy.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Changing LEDs across more sustainable.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Three years now. I mean, well done. You sort of made a massive dent on, on the bills you mentioned. Uh, the ice rink.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: What could be more of a energy draining machine. Yeah. So dialing into that with your BMS systems really kind of manag in ice, for example. I mean, it's amazing what you learn.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, ice management. Who would have thought it?
Speaker A: But yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B: The energy you could burn just alone by having it too thick. Yeah. You know, so you really sort of dial into these things. Um, yeah.
Speaker A: To make sure you're not burning off too much.
Speaker B: But it's across everything now, isn't it? It's not, it's not so much of a buzzword anymore. It is just.
Speaker A: Yes, it is.
Speaker B: Normal practices now are to think about these things.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because of course rising costs and everything, you, you know, you're just trying to drive it down the other way.
Speaker A: That's it.
Speaker B: And I'm m lucky with the social side of things.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: We've got an event on every week, so.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean what, what more.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Can you ask for joy into what we do. Um, and then we've got an amazing creative learning department who do some amazing things for the community, the vicinity.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: You know, those kind of things. Just this just speaks for himself.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, for us, I think we're doing pretty.
Speaker A: Yeah. Well, yeah.
Speaker B: Nearly swore there. Pretty.
Speaker A: You are. Love that. Uh, and this is a hard one for you because obviously it says, do you think the industry is innovating fast enough? Are we still playing catch up? But I think, you know, with giving the building that you're in, you know.
Speaker B: Well, no, but that's the thing. I mean, I guess again, maybe I'm different from most, um, because I'm coming from the historical side of things because, you know, these buildings have been around for so long, it feels like I'm saying the same thing here. But it is. We're looking at things long term.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I think if everyone can start to do the same.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Even if it is your new build. Yeah. Like this.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: If you could start to not get the quick fix, not have the thing that's just going to last short term, look at it long term, materials that are going to keep, then maybe that is the way it needs to be more imitative because, you know, look at these buildings have been around.
Speaker A: I know. You know, we're looking at the Rosewood right now. Stunning building. Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, centuries. And it's still looks amazing.
Speaker A: I know. I'm very privileged to sit here and look out at that building. Yeah.
Speaker B: Pretty Portland stone everywhere.
Speaker A: I have no idea what that is. I do now. Brilliant. Um, so. So looking back. Oh, gosh. I mean, you've probably worked on a number of projects, but what. What moment or project are you still very proud of today?
Speaker B: Yeah. There has been loads of problems, I think, uh, I think definitely working at St. Paul's first of all.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: I can't believe I'm here and think walking into my site one day and then seeing a load of police dogs because there was a queen. It was a kind of first thinking, okay, you know, I'm. My sight's been taken over by, uh, the Met with a load of police dogs because of a queen visit.
Speaker A: A check.
Speaker B: Yeah, obviously, you know, I knew that was coming. That was a surprise. But I think it was, um, you know, kind of a proud moment there.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, you know, I'm working around royalty now.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: They're not. I sort of wouldn't have even guessed that the following years would have then worked even closer.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: With. With royalty. So I think from there. Yes, that was a taster but at the abbey, I mean, it definitely was a privileged and an honor to be part of the funeral.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Manchester Queen.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And obviously then coronation for King Charles. So I. I mean, gosh, you've seen
Speaker A: some things, some things haven't. Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, I don't think I could not say that they were, uh. Um, right up there with, you know, some of the. The best things.
Speaker A: Nobody can. Not many people. Should I say. Not nobody, but not many people can say. I mean, I certainly can't.
Speaker B: No, I mean, you know, it's wonderful. People look at me sometimes. I mean, what's that going? Never have you ever, you know, and you go, been to the coronation? Yeah. It's crazy, because I still think about it now. Yeah. I was there. Uh, and m. I remember it so well. Yeah, of course, because of. Because of. I think what it was. It was not so much of the. The, you know, what it was all about, but it was about how it came about. M. I've never been involved in something so well thought through, planned. Uh, nothing at all left to chance. It was, you know, planned meticulously.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, with, um, you know, with. With the military. With.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: With.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Working with people like Black Rod and. I mean. I mean, what, you know, Parliament over the road. It was kind of like. Never before have I had, you know, such a. Kind of intricate part of such a big event, uh, like that I probably never will, to be honest with you. Again, you don't know. You didn't think when you were there and then plastering walls. No, exactly. That's my point. So from. I mean, me pushing around a trowel, trying to learn how to plaster, and then now. Yeah. Being a front and foremost, an intricate part of the coronation. It was. Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker A: And now a huge part of Alexandra Palace. Another.
Speaker B: Exactly that. Absolutely.
Speaker A: I mean, yeah. Lots of powerful.
Speaker B: I keep pinching myself sometimes, but. Yeah.
Speaker A: Well done, you. It's lovely.
Speaker B: I think I. I'm, um. I'm kind of thankful that I've gone through every level, all the way up to where I am to understand. Have a good understanding of how things work. I can speak to your laborer pushing a broom. I can speak to.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: A monarch.
Speaker A: Yes.
Speaker B: And I can do everyone.
Speaker A: Everyone in between.
Speaker B: Yeah. And still be myself and be, you know, quite proud of what I've done and what you've achieved and what I've learned and. And, um.
Speaker A: So you should be. Yeah. That's why we've got you on the Show. Show people. It's possible, though.
Speaker B: Well, I mean, yeah. You know what? If it does anything other than that, it's, uh. Yeah. I mean, work hard.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Follow your passion. And who knows what comes in front of you.
Speaker A: That's it. And knock on doors, by the sounds of it. This is the next question. You're leading me on to the next one. So what's, uh, what's something you wish you knew when you were starting out?
Speaker B: Um.
Speaker A: Whoa.
Speaker B: Okay, so I think it would probably be how vital the trades I was learning at m. The time were, uh, and were going to be now. Like, um, I said to you earlier, back then, I was, I was, you know, learning how to work with lime. Not only plastering. I mean, I'm a long plasterer and I can m. Use traditional methods too. But yeah, it's not just that you, you, you muck in. I mean, m. You use, you know, you with the bricklayers, you with the stonemasons, you learn lime and you learn how to tend it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And there's lots of different ways of doing that. So I think back then it was just a kind of, you know, a, uh, nothingness, because that's what we all did. But I finally known then how important it would be to one advocate for those transferable skills later on.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Then I probably would have started African it from a long.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Before I am now.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Because now I'm all about trying to, um, use what I have, which is an amazing grade 2 listed building with an abundance of trade.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Well, what can be used for a learning platform. And I think what I can do now, given the position I'm in, is actually pass that down to younger generations. And that's a part of the exciting thing I think I've got coming up now in my career. I think that is one of the things that really does get me up in the morning to go, well, you know what? How can we do that? So I'm kind of thankful that, um, everyone at Alipalia has got the same. Same mindset as myself with that. And it's now part of our strategic, um, view to, uh, use historic trades and try to use the building for learning, for, uh, advocating for these, uh, beautiful trades that are unfortunately dying out. Yeah. So, ye. Yeah, I mean, I think that would have been it back then. I would have. I would have been taking more stock of what I was doing.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Ah, earlier.
Speaker A: But you don't know, do you? But we didn't have all of this either, you know, like, true. We didn't have podcasts and youtubes and.
Speaker B: Ah, absolutely.
Speaker A: To find out how to do, you know things better or you know.
Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's it. This like you say, maybe it's just the timing thing. No, I think it is the timing. There's a lot of noise now out there about um, a lot of people realizing that. Oh, hang on a minute.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean like I said, the people that I used to work with long retired now and there's not many people coming in to replace them. Yeah.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: What we're ending up with is.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Shortage of diminishing work. These skills.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um. So. Yeah. So, um, keep m it moving.
Speaker A: We need it. We need you. So if someone came to you tomorrow saying I want to do what you do, what would you say to them? Um, just that. Probably learn some great.
Speaker B: Well, I mean, um, it's not so much. I mean actually I had a, um, I. So I'll mention I had a assist. I've got a build. Assistant building surveyor. So that's difficult for me to say. I've got an assistant building surveyor at ah, work now. Yeah, Joe's brilliant. He's uh, he's a young lad. He's um, he come from the ice rink actually. He was doing uh, he's. He was working on the ice rink and he, he, he became interested in buildings and it was just an easy kind of.
Speaker A: Well, if you transition.
Speaker B: Let's have a look. And he's just a superstar.
Speaker A: I love that.
Speaker B: I mean he's now doing, uh, he's now doing his apprenticeship with us. So. Uh, brilliant M. I'm mentoring him through that. And it wasn't so much that we had this conversation earlier, but it was his end of year appraisal earlier.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: And he, and he. And and it kind of just strikes me as, you know, one of the, one of we were talking about his, his, his. His objectives and yeah, yeah. He said, oh, it'd be really good to uh, to, to do some training on um, learning how these things work. So of course it then does lead into. Yeah, you know what? I am lucky that I just get that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Because I've done, done it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: When I look at ah, Joe and he's dealing with all the contractors he deals with managing them, but he's not got that confidence about what they're doing. Although he's got, you know, he's got the skill and he's got the ability but actually behind it, that confidence in, well, I know exactly how you're doing it and what you're doing. I don't have to second guess.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker B: So I suppose if you're wanting to get into this kind of role, then actually the way I've done it from grassroots up.
Speaker A: Uh.
Speaker B: Yeah. Learning each layer.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: As it is through, you know, on the trades.
Speaker A: Um, all the historic stuff. Yeah.
Speaker B: Client side, which will. Different sides of the fence through all the different kind of mechanics of the building.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Then actually, what could be a better way? I mean, it's rounded.
Speaker A: So. Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, yeah, I'm m. I'm quite lucky in that respect. And I still challenged with everything. Absolutely still. You never know there's a learning day.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, of course.
Speaker B: But it helps when you. When you know about.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Buildings and how it works.
Speaker A: Yeah, Love that. I think so. All right, let's switch off of work. And, um, what do you like to do outside your day job? Do you have time? Yeah.
Speaker B: Um. I can't be honest. The last three years have been very busy. Ali pally. So kind of. I mean, a lot of people say to me, oh, you must go to all the gigs. And I'm like, well, you know what? I don't. It's kind of. I'm there all the time.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I mean, obviously I've got that opportunity and anything that comes up, I do.
Speaker A: But you want to go to. I. You do all sorts, don't you, up there? Everything's.
Speaker B: Yeah, that's what I mean.
Speaker A: There's just music got. Yeah.
Speaker B: So I am. I am lucky in that respect. But no, I mean, generally speaking, I just enjoy a bit of peace, bit of relaxing. Do like. I mean, I commute a lot, so.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, you know, two hours.
Speaker A: Gosh.
Speaker B: Commute to work every morning. So.
Speaker A: Yeah. So I'm in two hours back.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker A: What commute?
Speaker B: Yeah. So a lot of work. So it's not even shutting down. Are you working on the train?
Speaker A: Dedicated. You are.
Speaker B: But I suppose when I get home, m. Switch off just about the kids.
Speaker A: Kids. Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, my girlfriend spending some time together.
Speaker A: Uh, yeah.
Speaker B: Doing whatever you can to just relax.
Speaker A: I love that. I love hearing that. Some people are like, right. I go for bike rides about five miles there and I'm like, well, that's a lot considering.
Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. At the moment, I'm, um, not there at the moment. It's so high impact. It's so busy, so fast paced, huge building. All I can do.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is actually just have a minute, take stock and relax.
Speaker A: Good.
Speaker B: That's what's keeping me sane.
Speaker A: And you do need to switch off. You do you do so that you can recharge and then go back in and. Yeah. Uh, bring. Bring the. Bring it.
Speaker B: Absolutely. I do play a bit of golf every now and then.
Speaker A: Oh, that's good.
Speaker B: Got a lot of friends that, you know, most people do have these groups that want to go out and play golf all the time, so it happens. But I think mostly I love walking.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Quiet.
Speaker A: Yeah. You walk around Ali Pally. It's huge. All the grounds still easy to get lost. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely want to get lost up there. So. So. Last one. What's the best bit of advice you've ever been given? Um, we're going back to dad. Or have you got another one?
Speaker B: I'm going to go for Mary, my girlfriend with the, um. Listen, to understand is definitely the best piece of advice. I mean, I'm not going to say, uh, Mary, you can't take credit for it. I know, I know it's been said before, but, uh, she certainly told me. Um, and I think it's just really kind of, uh. Grabs me too, because it's really easy to. I mean a lot of people do it already have in their mind what they want to say before someone says it. But actually listening to what people are saying and understanding what they are saying and why they are saying it before you speak and then, you know, it changes your mind on every kind of conversation really. Because listening to people is what counts.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: It's amazing what you can hear. And I know it sounds really silly. Yeah. But, uh, I'm not sure that a lot of people do listen all the time. So. So I'm always trying to exercise that. Listen, listen, take it in.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And understand. And then you usually touch.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Make the right decisions from that. Because of course, when you're so fast paced and you've got to make decisions just straight away, um, you know, having the right information.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Is key. So definitely that's definitely got to be up there with. Yeah. Great advice.
Speaker A: It's a skill not all of us have. I interrupt a lot. Me need to listen more. I love that. Um, thank you so much, Ian. I've really enjoyed listening to what you do in a day. And your journey is remarkable. Um, for some of the most beautiful British buildings that we have here in London. Um, and, uh, yeah, I'm looking forward to seeing what, what you. What you guys get up to and up at Alipalli in the future space.
Speaker B: There's a lot coming ye. A lot of work going on up there. Um, yeah, the building is transforming before people's eyes now. So I'm really excited to be part of that.
Speaker A: Absolutely.
Speaker B: Physical change now is becoming quite apparent, so.
Speaker A: Excellent. I wish you and your team all the best up there and I shall see you up there. No doubt if. Well, actually, it'll probably be a weekend. You might be, uh, relaxing. Oh, that's lovely. Thanks, Ian. And if anyone wants to reach out to you about kind of what you do on LinkedIn, are they welcome to do so again?
Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we've got a few roles coming up. Um, I mean, certainly always trying to grow the team, so we're looking. Always looking out for talent. Um, you know, we have, uh, an apprentice role coming up soon. Uh, apprentice electrician. Yeah. And obviously I'm always looking for, uh, that kind of role to, um. Yeah, as earlier be a kind of catalyst in what we're doing for all our historical trade. So definitely have. You know, there's definitely opportunities coming. Maybe, uh, not straight away, but certainly in the future.
Speaker A: Keep in touch. Definitely. Oh, thank you for that. That's lovely. Shout out for our younger listeners, especially that are wanting to get into this industry. Lovely being good hands, that's for sure. Um, thank you so much, Ian, for coming down, talking to us today. Um, and, uh, yeah, that's the end of today's episode of Wear Many Hats. Um, please do, like, share forward on Ian's podcast interview onto anyone that's wanting to get into the industry. And more importantly, he's got apprenticeship roles. So, um, yeah, get in touch if you're looking for, uh, looking for a role up at Ali Pal. But, yeah, until next time, take care.
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