are you better off flying solo or taking on a co-founder?

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Wannabe Entrepreneurs Podcast. The podcast where you join two wannabe CEOs who have harbored dreams of starting businesses, researched ideas and made a jump in the past, but always seemed to return to a 9 to 5. With this podcast, we want to make the step into our own businesses final. We move from wannabes to actually being. I, um, am Uwa and my fellow wannabe is Emeka. We are embarking on this journey together. We hope you two will join us and break into your own businesses. Hi Emeka. Really pleased to have you on the call today again. Um, how's your week been?

Speaker A: Uh, it's been very hectic. Uh, we've been working on, uh, releasing some new features and uh, there is a whole lot of problems here and there with the development and you know how it goes. Um, yeah, everybody's stressed out, everybody's trying to get the features, uh, working. Apart from that, everything is okay personally.

Speaker B: Oh, ah, fantastic. Glad to hear it. On my side, um, work has been busy. Um, the tax changes coming in next, uh, month have been a major. Next month in two months time been a major drain, um, on people's resources and time. Um, but, uh, other than that, it's same or same. I've been doing quite a few nights as well, ah, for my normal nine to five. So that's impacted my coding time, my work time. But, um, there you go, nothing to complain about. Um, in terms of today, what we're going to talk about is, um, we're going to try and compare, um, having a co founder versus being a solopreneur. Ah, so a solo founder versus having a co founder. We'll look at some of the advantages, the disadvantages, uh, we'll look at, um, some stats, some of the stats that exist to back one, um, or the other side. So, um, without wasting much time, uh, Emeka, do you have a co founder?

Speaker A: Yes, I do have a co founder at the moment. I think I have, uh, two co founders, if you can call it that. But yeah, I have people that I'm working with in order to build this platform.

Speaker B: Okay. So is the guy in India a co founder?

Speaker A: Uh, the guy in India at the moment, we're calling him like a freelancer who's getting paid, uh, for the work he's putting in. So yeah, he's just a, uh, freelancer at the moment. No agreement has been, uh, signed between us and when the company has been set up, we have not included him as part of the directors. So the people that have us, uh, the directors are the People I consider co founders at the moment.

Speaker B: Right. And do your directors get paid?

Speaker A: No. At the moment, we've agreed that we are going to use our threat equity in order to build this platform. However, uh, we are also planning to increase, at least on a short term, the number of freelancers. And based on our equity split, we're going to contribute money, uh, to actually get them on so that we can, uh, sort of, uh, progress some of the backlogs that we have at the moment.

Speaker B: Oh, really? So you've got them to actually go from just sweat equity to actually putting in money?

Speaker A: Uh, we haven't had that conversation. It's something that is in my head at the moment. Um, I'm hoping to get them to know about. But anyway, I mean, um, I have flattered the idea that we are going to bring in someone who will be paid to do some work in order to turn around some of the, uh, uh, features that we've been working on for some time now. Um, yes, I haven't, I haven't um, really said that we. They need to contribute. At the moment I'm telling them I will contribute, but then what I really want them to do is to also contribute, but then not as much as I will contribute.

Speaker B: M. Okay, so how did you find the whole, um, uh, contract and agreement stage and partnership? How did you come about that? How did you select these people?

Speaker A: Um, I was just lucky, to be honest with you. In the past, uh, what I'd done was I used some of those, uh, freelancer websites to find someone. Uh, even though, I mean at the time they were not in any way, um, uh, considered as co founders. They were freelancers. I had to pay them to do the work. Now that I have co founders, it's a bit different. Uh, I spoke to a friend of mine. Look, this is what I'm working on. And I know you can do some development if you could, uh, you know, maybe work with, uh, work with me in order to develop this. You know, it might be, you know, really, uh, useful to you. I don't know. We got talking and then he was quite happy to, to come on board and say, okay, let's maybe let's do this. Um, while we were doing it, well, when we were discussing the idea, he thought, okay, it doesn't, he doesn't do front end. But then he knows someone who does front end and the person might be available for us to, you know, pay him. We spoke to the guy, the guy agreed on the terms that we put forward and that's why we got the guy in India.

Speaker B: Right, okay. So that's, he's, he's come via referral. Yes, that's, that's great. Um, so that's one co founder. You have another co founder.

Speaker A: Yes. So obviously when we started looking at what we needed to build and um, we knew what, what entailed because, because we drew it all out and we realized it's quite a lot of work. The guy alone that I spoke to, who's my friend, wasn't able, well, wasn't going to be able to deliver all of that. Um, just bearing in mind that he has his own family, he works his 905 and um, he's a hands on dad, if you know what I mean. So it was quite difficult for him to actually put in enough hours in the evening at the same time in the, in the weekends, uh, during the weekends. So we needed somebody else. So I knew a friend of mine who does a lot of backend. Well, no, a colleague from my, one of my previous um, jobs. So I called him up and said look, this is what I'm working on. I know you quite, you quite good with the back end development. You know, do you have, would you be able to spare a few hours every day and, and over the weekend so that we can put this in together. The uh, guy, we've already done something entrepreneurial, uh, a while back that didn't quite work. So he knew that, you know, if I come up with something it might be a good idea. When I explained everything, he was quite happy and he was quite happy to come on board as a co founder.

Speaker B: All right, that's, that, that's good. So that's generally you have a, uh, sort of history with these people. You've known them for, for a while, you've worked with them, you know how they work and that's what gave you the confidence to invite them into, into, into this project. Right?

Speaker A: That's right. That's right.

Speaker B: Okay. If you didn't know them. Right. Um, I know, I know my own section will come later when you ask me about the solopreneur side of things. Yeah. If you, if you didn't know these guys.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: How would you go about finding, getting the resource?

Speaker A: So at the moment, uh, all I have ever known is either you buy them or uh, they work as part of a team. Okay. Ah, that's only thing I know at the moment. I've never really been in a position where I had to go where I can find a co founder. I've never had. I don't even think that's even possible that you can go somewhere and maybe pitch your idea and someone will want to come on board and work with you in order to create a business. So all I have always known is it's either it's someone who's your friend who believes in the uh, project or you buy them. And that's all I've known. So if I never had these guys, maybe the idea wouldn't have gone anywhere. Or maybe I'll start thinking about buying freelancers who can build this.

Speaker B: Okay, why did you feel you had you needed a co founder or co founders.

Speaker A: So because of the uh, the okay, I have an idea and um, I built the case. I've done some research and it feels like there is a market right for me to actually build some sort of a, a ah, prototype. I thought I needed a developer, uh, put something together for me to showcase um, the solution that I'm proposing. So in order to do that I felt I needed a developer, somebody who can actually do some work and then get us a prototype that we can show off to our potential customers and uh, in the absence of cash to buy a freelancer who can develop it from um, single line of code to a functional uh, platform. I knew the only way was to find somebody who would not charge, but we could, we could co own the business.

Speaker B: Okay, uh, that sounds, yeah, yeah, that's, that's usually the reason why people look uh, for uh, co founders could you have come up with a concept and just raised money, um, get gotten venture capitalists on board or something, then use that money to get developers on rather than uh, co founding?

Speaker A: I've had it been done before but you know, I've been networking for a bit now and I've never seen anyone who, who actually made it through, through that route. Um, some people say, well you just come up with an idea and then maybe uh, sign up some potential customers, use that to raise some funds. I haven't, I haven't seen it work. I mean maybe people have actually experienced that or I've actually raised funds through that. But I haven't seen anyone tell me how they raise money without any, without showing any, any sort of a, what I call an mvp. So I've always believed for you to raise funds in order to actually grow the development team or grow whatever resources that you need to create your business, you needed to show something, you know, the minimum viable product that you can go and demo to the investors and say look, here is a solution. At least the mini sets featured uh, solution. And here are the people who are interested in it, or they have actually started using it and they are potentially ready to pay for you and then probably they will take you seriously. And that's all I know at the moment. Maybe somebody can tell us how else or how they were able to raise funds without actually creating any product.

Speaker B: Indeed. Um, if anyone's got any information, please do share it with us. Okay, so that's how you found your co founders. You have that understanding in terms of negotiating with them and then the split in the company and stuff. How did you go about that?

Speaker A: So I, I, it was quite a difficult conversation, um, at the very beginning because I thought, okay, I am the owner of this idea. I came up with the idea, I have worked on it for a bit now, and uh, as a result I am entitled to own the whole lot. Uh, so then, you know, it didn't make sense. I didn't think you, it, I didn't think, uh, anybody who I bring on and then give uh, a miniature equity stake whether they will be vested enough, you know, to commit. So I was, I was quite open to say, look, I'll give you 30 to 40% and we can create this business. But then you have to prove that you can do X and Y. Okay, when you know, but then we will have to wait to see how we go ahead before we actually put pen to paper. So to be honest with you, what's happened is I suggested uh, uh, equity share. I said, look, this is the amount I want to give, uh, or make available for development. Here is I want, I want uh, a certain amount of equity I want to make available for marketing and product development and business development. And I sort of, I shared it that way. And then obviously they knew they were coming in as a developer and that means they will have to have that development portion. And that development portion was actually almost 50%. But because I was bringing in more than one developer, they knew they were going to split it.

Speaker B: Okay, so that diluted their shares and um, um, stuff.

Speaker A: Yes. So that's how I did it. I said, okay, look, we're gonna have 20 to 25% even. I started with 15%, but then it didn't look appealing enough. So about 20%. I said, okay, 20, 20 for the developers and then business development will have 50%. And um, they've all been okay with that. But at the moment I'm actually still questioning it because I'm still thinking what if along the line, although we, we still did the vesting. So in our contract we said you have to be working consistently, um, with the business over this period. And then each year you accrue some of these shares that we have allocated to you. So if they were to leave tomorrow without actually completing the term during the of the vesting, they will, they will only accumulate enough, well, a certain number of, uh, the share rather than the entire equity state.

Speaker B: Okay, so you are, you are the driving force behind this. So you're the one saying who gets vested, what and what, what the different parties get, right?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: And this is up to a maximum of 20% each, is that correct?

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: Okay. And when you say business development gets 50%, what's that? Is that not you?

Speaker A: That's me.

Speaker B: Okay, so you get 50%, they get 20% each, and then there's 10% left. Who does that go to?

Speaker A: So I'm thinking at the moment saying that we're going to bring in someone who's into sales and business, actual sales, marketing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If we are going to bring someone before we raise funds, the person might want equity and we will have to allocate, uh, something that will keep them motivated to actually go all out even before we make money.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Okay. So at the moment we still have something that is available. If we were to bring somebody else to either do the sales or the marketing, we want somebody who's quite senior, you know, not to take that sort of, uh, chunky share.

Speaker B: Okay, that's quite clever. Rather than, uh, share out the entire cake, leave a piece. Uh, because I'd imagine the discussion to get them to release all their shares if everyone's taking every piece of piece, would be a very difficult one. Um, okay, so it, so that's how you, you got them on board. Um, have you had any challenges as a result?

Speaker A: I have had massive challenge. Okay. So one day, some days I'm quite happy that, yes, I got these guys on board. Some days I'm like, regretting. What if I got myself into. Um, sometimes, uh, you see some sort of a lackluster attitude and that begins to worry you. Say, okay, are these guys invested enough? Are they committed enough as you are committed? Because for me, I'm 100 committed, more committed than any one of them. I'm not comparing, but I'm just hoping maybe they are not as committed as I am, you know, so even if I was to bomb them, or even if I were to give them more equity stake in the business, it could be detrimental to me. They might have all the equity stake, but then they are not, probably not emotionally invested in the Business. And that could be. So sometimes I feel like that because when I'm really geared up, I want to get this done. I want to get this business closed. I want to catch that, um, partner, uh, but then we need to make sure that they, um, uh, the uh, features in the product is, you know, looking good. They just look at me like, well, not doing anything because I'm busy. You know, I got family commitment, I got work to go to. And I'm like, guys, no, we need to do this. I'm like, well, I'm quite busy and I won't be, uh, free till next week. And you have a, a partner who's looking for you to fix a bug so that they can sign on to the application and demo it, you know, and then you're just tearing it, tearing your head out.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's hard, man. That's really hard. It's, it's um, it is hard. You can't um, but you're, you're, you're wedded, um, you're weather that or you're joined at the hip now.

Speaker A: So yeah, there's um. Sometimes I'm quite happy because I mean, sometimes you say, okay, look at the progress we've made so far. And um, obviously if I was, if I were paying to make such, such a progress, that would have cost me so much money. So sometimes I look back and smile and say that, you know, actually it was a good thing to have someone. Um, but sometimes it's just uh, frustrating to see them not have the same amount of passion.

Speaker B: And from what I, for what I could, from what I detected, um, one of them is more enthusiastic than the other. Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. That the dynamics is quite, is quite, uh, tricky. So the original friend that I spoke to about this business that we all started off this business is no longer as enthused as the new my colleague, my ex colleague that I brought in, my ex colleague is on the job. Of course, sometimes he doesn't have the time to be there whenever I wanted. And obviously he was not seen as the cto. So the other guy was seen as the CTO because he was original guy who, who came on board and because of his knowledge of aws, he is top notch aws. Okay? He is really, really good. He can set up all the API gateway, he can set up all the environment with his eyes closed. Okay? So I said okay, because this guy is an architect, he can design the solution. He knows how the uh, backend works. He's going to be the cto. Okay. He interviewed the second guy, when I brought him in and said, look, I've got this, my mate, Uh, I want you to talk to him, you know, as a developer to developer, uh, find out what you. He knows and think, you know, confirm if he's good enough for us to bring on board. So, because the original guy interviewed the newer guy, you know, it's quite tricky now because I would rather this newer guy be my cto, but. But, you know, I still have confidence in the new guy, but just sometimes the passion is not as much as I wanted.

Speaker B: Yeah, that's, That's. That's a shame, really. Um, but again, because you're almost sort of bootstrapping, so you have to make allowances for people's, um, commitments.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. So. So that's why I said sometimes you look at it and say, you know what? We've done so well at, you know, to the. To the stage we brought the business to. Uh, sometimes it's just not good enough because. So, for instance, like. Like today I have been going mad. We have a big bug. Well, we have a bug on. On the application, and we are looking to solve it because we just got a new partner who's testing it today and has been testing it since yesterday. And this bug has been. We're trying to get it to, uh, get it to work so that the partner can get the testing going, but none of them is actually bothered. And I'm like, is gone two days now and nothing has been done. Oh.

Speaker B: Oh, that's a bummer.

Speaker A: Yeah, it is, it is. But, you know, I'm sure other people have, uh, even worse stories than myself. Yeah, I'm not stressed anymore. I'm, uh, I've. I've given up, I'm sure.

Speaker B: Wake up. If you give up, then we have to stop the podcast, which is not,

Speaker A: you know, to be honest, to the point where I'm at, you know, is not to get myself so worked up that either I break down. You know, we talked about mental health. I don't want to overstress it. I just want to say, you know what? Maybe they'll come around. And I'm being hopeful, very, very optimistic here.

Speaker B: No, I think. I think, um, it's. It's your. It's your baby, largely. And, um, you know, you have to keep pushing and keep the energy going. Um, and you would have dips. I'm sure you have dips sometimes. Um, but because they're. They're. I don't know if it's because they've got smaller, um, smaller Stake. You have to be the one to encourage them and keep them going.

Speaker A: I guess that's what it is. And I'm doing that at the moment. I'm taking it on the chin.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay, that's, that's cool. So you've told us about the advantages, the slight concerns and um, maybe disadvantages. But, uh, it sound, on the whole, it sounds like it's working.

Speaker A: It is working. Like I said in, like I said initially, if I didn't have, um, co founders, I don't think I'll be where I am today. I don't think I'll have the MVP that I have right now. Uh, I don't think I'll be talking to any partners at all. So having them has actually boosted me. At least it has, uh, got me into spending less money and uh, creating an app, ah, that somebody can actually work on. And for me that is really one of the greatest advantages of having a co founder, somebody who can work with you and um, sort of, uh, compensate where you have weaknesses.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really good.

Speaker B: Some of the things I've seen in terms of finding, uh, a co founder, uh, includes essentially vetting the person that you're bringing in and making sure that you, you all have, have the same sort of ethos, same belief, same drive, same commitment. Um, and then. And just making sure that they understand what your business goals are.

Speaker A: That is, ah, crucial.

Speaker B: Yeah. And would you say your guys understand your business goals and have the same morals and work ethic and maybe not the work ethic.

Speaker A: Unfortunately not. I think what is happening is for me, at the time that I wanted to have a co founder, I just wanted somebody who was able to code a technical co founder who I can give requirements and the person would be able to knock off something. And that was the only thing I was interested in in terms of, uh, how the relationship will work. It was right about Burner. Sometimes I regret it, um, because it would have helped to understand individuals and see where we, you know, maybe don't agree and at least have it at the back of your mind before you go into the agreement. Ah, a relationship. Um, I think if there's any. I mean, it has been good so far. It's not like had any fights. It's been, it's been fantastic, to be honest with you, apart from the, the down times we have to take on, on the chin. Um, but, um, I have heard stories where people have big, um, outbursts. Um, yeah, uh, where the relationship break down halfway and then you're realizing, hold on what do we do now? It has killed a lot of startups because of, uh, not realizing who you're going into a business with.

Speaker B: Yeah, who makes decisions or how do you, how do you make decisions in the company?

Speaker A: So at the moment, the way we make decision is I tend to, uh, have a meeting with the team. Every couple of weeks we'll have a meeting. Uh, the meeting is basically for me to present the business vision, uh, again. So every time, every now and then I'm bringing it back up again. I said, look, this is what we want to achieve. This is who we are targeting. This is where we are going to go. Here are the competitors that I've seen recently. So in some ways I'm basically telling them, look, let's hurry up. You know, this is where we're going. This is, uh, other people are, uh, coming into this industry. Let's not play about, uh, encouraging them as well. That's basically how, uh, the me, what the meeting is all about in terms of decision. I tend to present issues and then see how they contribute.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Uh, and then their contribution will now drive how I see things. Because I always see anybody can contribute. Everybody has a brain and at some point if you just put some idea out, they can chew it up and you never know what comes back. And sometimes there is wisdom in what they come back with.

Speaker B: Okay, but it sounds like the final decision is yours.

Speaker A: My, my, I take the final decision. So I try out, they consider it, then I'll make a call.

Speaker B: Right. Okay, so that, that makes sense. I, I, I, I get the, I get the picture now. Um, so with, with the, uh, just keeping an eye on time. If we spoke about the solopreneur, uh, and uh, you can interview me all you want.

Speaker A: Okay. So, yeah, uh, obviously, um, are not quite, well, people who don't know you very well. You've been working on this thing alone for a while now. So you are a typical solopreneur.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. Is it, is it by choice or accident that you are a solopreneur?

Speaker B: It's by choice and I don't know any other way. And, um, I cannot deal with people.

Speaker A: That is really tricky.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. Okay.

Speaker A: I mean, when you say a choice, is it that you have, um, gone through the advantages of having a co founder and, uh, you thought not for you, for, for now.

Speaker B: Um, to be honest, I didn't really think that far. I had the idea, um, of how to solve a particular problem, um, and I thought, okay, go learn the software and write a solution. That's what I did, I didn't think at any point that I would need a co founder in that regard. In terms of writing a software I can write the code myself. So all that's needed is for me to write the code and then push it out. Um, of course in the intervening time I've realized I do need some help. Um, and the question is, am I going to pay for that help or get somebody to help me as a co founder? Um, that decision is still up in the air but for me it was just a no brainer. I could write everything myself so I didn't need anyone else at that stage.

Speaker A: You know I think what uh, happens to people who are creating software as a service, uh, they always think they only need is a technical co founder.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Or if you are technically inclined then you don't need anything at all.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So for people who are non technical in terms of candy, um, put code together, uh, they think um, that's all they need. Put, create, create a solution, create a software that will enable you to solve a problem and once you do that that's it, you are, you're an entrepreneur and you uh, can create a business just doing that. I'm not saying that people haven't done that. I think people have actually done that. I don't know how successful they've been. Um, but what do you think you would need to do with a co founder today?

Speaker B: All right, so when I answered the last question I did say at that stage as of today, um, looking at the speed at which competitors are coming into the market and looking at the um, some other apps within the prop taking um, um space I'm seeing that a solo developer uh, would really struggle to keep up. So if I, if I needed to come up with a co founder it would be firstly that person I think would have to complement my skills. Um, they would have to be, I would need more than one, I think more than one co founder. So one would be doing front, ah, front end stuff would be a ux. So that's user experience, um, expert. Um the second one would be more business minded than myself. Um and in this case I'm moving into the disadvantages of being a solopreneur if you do not have certain skills. So my first app, I wrote it, I would push it out there. I got my wife to do the salesy stuff but that's not, that's not her strength so to speak. So the marketing piece of that app meant that it was really dead on arrival and that could very easily happen. To this current app. Unless we find somebody who has the relevant skills who can help us in that, um, with creating awareness and getting people signed up and helping understand what the users of the app are saying, the behaviors, some of the directions we should take in terms of, um, user journeys on the app. So I think I can employ somebody to do it, but I don't have the cash to do that. So the only alternative I know of is to, uh, bring them on board. Ah, as a co founder, um, so that's really one of the major, um, disadvantages. I don't have all the skills I need to get this app to where it needs to be. Um, and doing this as myself alone, I don't think I'll be able to get the features I need released quickly enough.

Speaker A: Okay, so at the moment you're saying because of your financial circumstances, you won't be able to, uh, uh, bring on board, uh, a freelancer quickly to get them, get them, um, helping you out with the marketing and the sales stuff. And at the moment you still can't find a way to, I guess, get someone who has similar passion or similar interest in this space that you're in, who can help you with the business side. Is this something that you have looked and you can't find, or you just don't know what to do?

Speaker B: I think it's a bit of both. Um, uh, there's a company that's helped me with the, uh, marketing side. Um, so they're going through what we're trying to deliver and they're looking at the different, um, access points into the company and how we can really drive our message through and get to the people who we want to target for with this app. So that's fine.

Speaker A: It's fine, yeah. Uh, you're saying there is a company.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: That company are there working for free?

Speaker B: Uh, nobody works for free. There's an arrangement we have.

Speaker A: So there's an arrangement where. But then actually I have been told that this is actually some, something that we, the, the founders need to, to be doing.

Speaker B: What's that?

Speaker A: To find, understand, uh, our market, Understand the space.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: And then be in a position to uh, tell the story of who our customer is, what they are saying, uh, rather than somebody else telling us because they might dilute it, uh, that communication to us. And then by the time you won't be able to understand exactly what the customer wants and your development may be a bit skewed because of your maybe bad information.

Speaker B: Uh, okay. The way this particular company, um, operates is different and we're not at risk of having that um, that issue in that we are the ones telling him or telling the company who our customers are and we are describing each one in very very, to a very, very high level uh, of detail. So we understand who our customers are. They don't. So I haven't asked them to go find my customer. I've told them who the customer, who the customers are and they ask probing questions to make sure we understand who our customers are. And, and uh, we're coming up with the avatar of the different customers. So in that regard I think he wouldn't tell me who my target customer is. We have to, would agree together that okay, with all the information I provided, this is the particular customer you're targeting. I understand the risk of just telling their company to go out and do their research and come back with a customer profile. Um, that's not, that's not happening with us.

Speaker A: Okay, so let's go back again. So what you're saying is at this time the, the uh, the area you need help is in marketing and sales.

Speaker B: The area I need help in uh, two, two areas. So marketing and sales. And I would need another me.

Speaker A: So you need uh, two developers, one more developer. Ah, including um, uh, in addition to you and a marketing salesperson who can start selling the ah, or at least finding the way to uh, push your business to the, to your customers.

Speaker B: That's correct.

Speaker A: Okay. Have you considered those uh, co founder networking events?

Speaker B: I have considered, I have considered. I haven't attended any yet.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: Um, but I would have to build a relationship with anybody that I'll bring in as a co founder and that takes time. I need someone swift.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And these are swiftly. So uh, if um, I ever need to employ the person or you know find someone else who.

Speaker A: So this is a chicken and egg thing. So at the moment there is a uh, uh the uh, funds not available for you to, to hire anyone. You still don't, you don't have the time to parly with someone and within the short time you have um, before you can make a selection and obviously you have to kiss a lot of frogs before you can make a selection that you haven't got time for. Um, something has to give though. You don't have money, you don't have time, you have to. Something has to give. Yeah. If you really want this to work.

Speaker B: Yes. So what I'm thinking will give is

Speaker A: um,

Speaker B: have to raise. Do a raise and get some angel to understand uh, explain the vision to this angel and, or VC and Get them to fund what I need to do.

Speaker A: Okay, so I guess where we are now is you have an mvp.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You have a concept that someone can test out today.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: All right. And, and they, and, and they can solve a problem that they, you believe the people um, in your space are uh, experiencing currently.

Speaker B: That's correct.

Speaker A: So maybe the next thing to do now is to find either an accelerator. Uh huh. Or an angel investor. Well, the reason why I said accelerator, accelerator who help you package, maybe do some sort of help you with the develop, developing the pitch deck, uh, facilitating your investor meetings and providing maybe some uh, pitch coaching, something like that. Maybe providing you with information on how to uh, create your financial projections, identify your KPIs. Because at the end of the day you need to have a holistic view of that space and have a good pitch for someone who wants to invest in it at the moment. Obviously the product works, but then they see beyond the product.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: So yes, right now you don't, you don't have the money to invest in uh, um, a sales and marketing person and you don't have time to start uh, building a relationship with the co founder. But you have an MVP that you can actually showcase today.

Speaker B: That's correct, yeah.

Speaker A: Okay, so I guess uh, what you say you need is you need to be funded in order to one get uh, um, a co founder. Yeah, I guess it will no longer be a co founder. It would just be some hired head.

Speaker B: Yeah, hired head and might, might give him shares and well, I'd hope the person who decides to fund me has some experience in the field. So whatever compensation package we can come up with, um, so it might be employ someone and then give uh, them shares as well, that sort of thing. Um, I'm quite, I'm quite open, I'm quite flexible. Um, so yeah, I'm happy to do that. Um, it will be a substantial amount of money as well if there's an accelerator. Um, I'm happy to do that too to go through that process. You've been through an accelerator before, haven't you?

Speaker A: I have actually. There was one called the Founders Institute. It was a long time ago. But what I do basically for you is to validate your idea. When to validate the idea, they will ask you to find, uh, potential customers and sign them up. Uh, you get a letter of intent. Once you've accumulated that uh, you have an mvp, they will now prepare you and get you in front of uh, investors whom you can pitch to. And once you pitch the idea to them, they'll be willing to uh, invest and potentially give you the money to go and build out the whole application. I think this is where we are right now. I think we need to be in a position where we can find the best accelerators in London, pitch down what we have currently and they will see whether they can accept us. Some of them have a three months program. But the thing is, you know, for who we are, where we are in life, you know, you may not necessarily want that because you need to be with them, focus for three months full time, working on your business full time and they'll be coaching you full time for that length of time for the three months. Okay. And the typical attendants, they tend to give you this uh, promise that you know, they aim to uh, have your startup funded within three months.

Speaker B: Okay. All right.

Speaker A: Yeah, so yeah, it might be something to consider because at the end of the day if we're going to be slogging along for more than three months, one, we don't have co founder, two we don't have fun, we are not, we are not funded. And then three months will come and go, you know. And you know you'll be asking yourself pennywise, pound foolish.

Speaker B: Yeah, pound foolish. Yeah, I, I understand that that's, that's a consideration. Okay, well, nice to me.

Speaker A: So, so I guess in this uh, uh, podcast today we were basically just saying to everyone there are some benefits of having co founders and sometimes there are, there are the disadvantages of not having a co founder.

Speaker B: Yeah. Or being a solopreneur.

Speaker A: Uh, being a solopreneur.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: There are advantages.

Speaker B: Yeah. Let me just read through some, some things that I found, some stats because there is this belief that many venture capitalists or funders would not, not consider a startup that has just one founder. Um, there is actually evidence, um, and I'll um, post a link to the article that um, proportionally quite a huge number of companies that have solo founders are ah, able to raise a substantial amount of funds. So um, as a guy can't remember his name now, went, um, did some research, um, over 7,000 companies and found that um, 46% of the companies were able to raise $10 million. Ask single founders. So it's not the case that, yeah, it is encouraging. It is encouraging. So obviously I don't know what the businesses were doing but um, so there is no such thing as nobody will fund you if you're a single founder. But to a large extent the single founder, if they're the brainchild, would actually want to be fully in control up to a certain stage whilst the idea is being built out, you don't, um, other people to come in and try and confuse the issue or not, uh, pull in the same direction. And then the same person also found that 53% of companies achieved an exit event. Um, and 53% of those companies that exited, uh, were single founders. So all is not lost for the solopreneur. Um, there are benefits to both. I think if you're a solopreneur, it can get very lonely and there are certain decisions you need to make and sometimes it just takes forever to make that decision because you've got no one else to bounce the ideas off of and you just um, keep mulling through the idea until your brain works out what you should be doing. Um, sometimes I wish I had someone, another developer I could talk to, uh, share ideas with and share the ambition and dream with. But um, when you're on your own, you just uh, put your head down. I think it's a bit like being a solo artist and having been in a group. Yeah.

Speaker A: I guess the challenges, the challenge with solo founders is they find it difficult to manage all the different hats that you have to wear as an entrepreneur.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Um, you have to do the sales, you have to do the market development, you have to do the applications, you need to know your market, all of those things going on in your head in one go. It can be difficult and obviously if you have other responsibilities where, you know, maybe you have a family and etcetera, it is 100%, uh, more difficult, you know, to do things as quickly as you want them done. For somebody who has some co founders, you can share ideas, you can banter certain things and maybe some decision that may be made, you can see a different view which you wouldn't, you know, if you were just a single, uh, finder or founder.

Speaker B: Yeah, I agree. Like this week and part of last week, I've not written any code, so which that automatically means that the app is not progressing from that point of view. I've been focusing on marketing and getting myself ready for my presentation next week. It's, it's um. And it's, I find that frustrating, but that's what's made it more obvious to me that I need some sort of, um, co founder or assistant. Um, but yeah, it's, it's um, uh, it's, it's part of the journey I think. And, and the next stage would be to make sure I plug, I plug that gap and uh, get that problem solved.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, you know, considering the Time we uh, should find out how everybody else is actually faring. Uh, for those who want to be entrepreneurs, who are building something on the side, uh, creating their businesses, we would like to hear from you. If you are a solopreneur or if you are uh, an entrepreneur with co founders, we would like to hear how you're doing it. What made you decide, uh, you needed co founders? How did you get them? Uh, how is the relationship with co founders? How have you decided to uh, share your equities? So what challenges do you face as a solopreneur and challenges you see as ah, uh, an entrepreneur with co founders? Any of this information, if you want to share with us, we'll be happy to hear from you.

Speaker B: Yes. And um, send us your questions. We want questions. We can't wait.

Speaker A: As you can see, we have our challenges at the moment. So Uwa at the moment, uh, is a single uh, uh, founder and at the moment he is actually struggling in order to put this business, uh, get this business going. He's doing his best to be honest with you. For a single single founder, he's done quite well for himself. Uh, but then obviously there's still a lot to do. Uh, at the moment, uh, he's um, make putting speeches here and there, doing some networking event and getting people to actually see his application and potentially use it. Um, but then, you know, there's other competitors rearing their ugly heads out there and um, the race is on and um, the, the quicker he can get someone to help him, you know, progress things, the better for him. So it is one of your challenges, Mr. Wah. We are hoping that to hear from you one of these episodes how you have uh, taking care of this, uh, challenge.

Speaker B: Yeah, um, well until then, um, I'll keep traveling. My wife and my wife will be my co founder.

Speaker A: Uh, so yeah, we've seen, we've seen, we've seen people with their partners who have uh, started businesses as co founders. So it's not uh, it's a well trodden path.

Speaker B: Okay. So on that uh, on that note, uh, let's call it a day, let's call it a night. Thank you for listening and until next

Speaker A: time, thank you for listening to our rumble.

Speaker B: Good night.

Speaker A: Thank you, good night.