Viktoriya, Founding Partner of TA Ventures, on Eastern Europe to Southeast Asia in Venture Capital

1 - > Welcome today to Venture Passport. 2 - > Today is a special episode with Viktoriya, the founding partner of TA Ventures. 3 - > Super excited to have you on. 4 - > For those unfamiliar with TA Ventures, can you share the story behind its founding?

5 - > What inspired the vision, and how did it take shape? 6 - > Yeah. 7 - > Richard, thank you. 8 - > Great to do this episode live.

9 - > Thank you for doing what you're doing with the Venture Passport. 10 - > And happy to support Venture Passport from the side of TA Ventures. 11 - > Yeah, this story is actually interesting. 12 - > Myself, I'm originally from Ukraine and born and bred.

13 - > And I just got into the venture by coincidence of fate, I would say, being from the offline 14 - > business, which made myself strong in a way of addressing all the problems which I can see now 15 - > in venture in startups. 16 - > So offline business brings you that type of DNA. 17 - > I mean, you are ready for whatever, right? 18 - > So you are ready to make a turnaround.

19 - > You are ready to jump in and to become an operator. 20 - > And so that's what created the special kind of venture character from offline business, I 21 - > would say. 22 - > So in Ukraine, the ecosystem back then in 2010 was completely different from what we are 23 - > having now. 24 - > I started even earlier, as I said, with offline businesses.

25 - > But with online, it was a venture builder. 26 - > Surprisingly, back then, 2008, 2009. 27 - > There were a lot of venture builders. 28 - > None in Ukraine.

29 - > Yeah, so it was an interesting opportunity. 30 - > I met occasionally my partner, and we started to build companies. 31 - > He was on the tech side, like a pure geek. 32 - > Myself, I knew other verticals of building businesses.

33 - > So I said, okay, let's do it together. 34 - > Let's start. 35 - > And of course, we started with the most difficult verticals, like travel, like online 36 - > insurance, auto insurance, to be specific, building the companies for Italian markets, 37 - > then the marketplaces, with the huge investments, and building the product, 38 - > investing a lot of effort. 39 - > I mean, huge team up to hundreds of developers back then in February 2009 in our office.

40 - > So if I would bring myself back, I would do a lot of things differently completely. 41 - > But it was like a learning by doing, in a way, February 2009 in Ukraine. 42 - > And then we understood that it's kind of hard to talk to local ecosystem. 43 - > It's kind of hard to talk to investors because Ukrainian business is in a way similar to Asian 44 - > business and very much similar to Latin American business.

45 - > It's all about bootstrapping. 46 - > So it's all about 47 - > raising less capital 48 - > and focusing on this. 49 - > Just can get a capital, and then you should give the capital back with quite substantial 50 - > interest rates. 51 - > And it depends on shareholding.

52 - > Like, let's grow the company together. 53 - > So focusing on profitability from close to day one. 54 - > Basically, private equity approach to whatever. 55 - > Even worse.

56 - > Basically, you were responsible for every kopek, every dollar you injected in your 57 - > business. 58 - > So it's like a bootstrapping style of businesses everywhere. 59 - > And so that shaped the ecosystem back then, and that's how we started. 60 - > Nobody wanted to share figures, to share profitability, margin, investment, investors, 61 - > etc.

62 - > It was weird. 63 - > And having a chance to visit different conferences, including top-notch conferences in 64 - > the U.S., I understood that something is really, really bad and broken.

65 - > So what to do? 66 - > For us, there is no chance to share what we are building and raising money from locals. 67 - > Because even now, if you are from a certain geography, you're building something for a 68 - > certain geography. 69 - > In our case, it was Eastern Europe, Europe, and global.

70 - > Maybe we had to bring investors from the local ecosystem, which was a huge deal. 71 - > So the decision was very simple. 72 - > Okay, let's make a top-notch international conference and start building connections via 73 - > the global conference. 74 - > So the conference started in 2010 in October.

75 - > And we had five editions of the conference till 2015. 76 - > It was the biggest and most popular, I would say, conference in Eastern Europe, one of many 77 - > tech conferences, but it was one of the biggest. 78 - > And it was based in Kyiv. 79 - > Why?

80 - > Because they didn't have visas for Americans or Europeans, like Ukraine back then. 81 - > Comparing to Russia, they had visas and all this regime. 82 - > And clearly, people from our industry, from the tech industry, they were not ready to give up 83 - > their passports and 84 - > to 85 - > Stay Venture Passport, to go to the Venture Passport. 86 - > Not even for one week or two weeks or so.

87 - > So Ukraine was quite well positioned in the middle of Europe, being the place where 19 88 - > countries could meet, where U.S. 89 - > investors and European investors could come. 90 - > And they were considering to do as much as they could back then in order to tap the CIS markets 91 - > back then.

92 - > So we've seen all. 93 - > And from the first year, it was a great success. 94 - > A couple of hundred companies, startups on the startup LA, Ukrainian, Eastern European, also 95 - > from Eastern Europe, sorry, from Southeast Asia as well in the U.S.

96 - > I mean, a rare guest, clearly, because they were not fundraising. 97 - > We just invited them to show the different landscape of the venture and startups, etc. 98 - > So 3,000-plus participants, great. 99 - > So that's what the moment for me to convert into venture investor.

100 - > Interesting. 101 - > Building the companies. 102 - > Venture 103 - > builder to venture capital. 104 - > Venture builder to venture capital.

105 - > Actually, one friend of mine, one famous investor, Florian, a European investor, said, 106 - > Okay, why aren't you investing? 107 - > So you're the company, DeepL. 108 - > Yeah. 109 - > We'll get to DeepL, right?

110 - > Yeah. 111 - > No, I think it's an incredible story. 112 - > You had been sort of a venture builder, building multibillion-dollar companies as an 113 - > operator, and then now sort of converting into the venture landscape, right? 114 - > So I mean, we talk about growing up in Eastern Europe and then the region in tech in general 115 - > for the landscape.

116 - > Right? 117 - > It's sort of we have a lot of global successes, right, that have come out of Eastern Europe. 118 - > So for example, Wise, Skype, and Bolt. 119 - > What do you think was driving the transformation?

120 - > Right? 121 - > Or, for example, you know, companies being global dominant players, right, like these 122 - > companies. 123 - > It's interesting. 124 - > So basically, you named companies which created, in a way, kind of Eastern European, 125 - > like, Mafia.

126 - > Mhmm. 127 - > Yeah? 128 - > And all those companies, they created their whole ecosystem of C-level managers, founders, 129 - > angel investors. 130 - > I mean, there are many other companies.

131 - > Started in 132 - > the south of Europe. 133 - > Romania, companies from Bulgaria, from small geographies. 134 - > Like Bulgaria is 135 - > I mean, I just picked three. 136 - > I mean, there's probably like 10 or more.

137 - > True. 138 - > True. 139 - > And like GitLab, Ukrainian founders, and many others. 140 - > And it's actually the ecosystem of talents in Eastern Europe.

141 - > And if you analyze all those, the majority of them, the majority of them, super tech-driven, 142 - > tech and talent-intensive businesses. 143 - > When you say tech and driven, would you say 144 - > Exactly. 145 - > High engineering talent, like technology business with a global focus mostly. 146 - > That's what the way for 147 - > So always thinking about global from actually day one, right?

148 - > It just happened. 149 - > I mean, they built the global company. 150 - > Maybe they didn't clearly do it on purpose, but just amazing stars and star founders. 151 - > And that's what they were thinking about, like mostly software, deep technology.

152 - > So that's the way for Eastern European startups to succeed on a global scale. 153 - > I mean, we understand that Eastern Europe and Ukraine, I mean, we have rich in talents, rich 154 - > in tech talents. 155 - > Even in 156 - > Europe. 157 - > Hardworking as well, in Eastern Europe.

158 - > Hardworking, on the go, young generation, bootstrapped businesses. 159 - > It's influenced a lot, influenced mentality, on the good side and on the bad side. 160 - > On the bad side, there is no DNA in our entrepreneurs to fail from Eastern Europe 161 - > specifically because of the bootstrap, because the money is the key, because the money is hard 162 - > to get. 163 - > I mean, it's hard to get the external financing.

164 - > Banks completely forget about that, but from the investors, private investors. 165 - > I mean, it's a totally different paradigm how we think about money invested into the venture. 166 - > Makes sense. 167 - > Okay?

168 - > So that also influenced myself and TA Ventures in a way, because I wasn't even thinking to 169 - > raise capital. 170 - > I mean, being in different conferences, understanding, reading the books, all these 171 - > books were on already, like top books on how to like Silicon Valley, Brad Feld, and other, 172 - > yeah, 173 - > Venture Deals. 174 - > Venture Deals, like Bible. 175 - > But I didn't even think, being from Ukraine, mean, to raise.

176 - > So I started to invest my own capital, avoiding this give me money, right, for ten years, 177 - > actually, from 2011 till 2021. 178 - > So speaking about this, coming back to wrap up your point, so these interesting super 179 - > companies, like unicorns, they shaped the ecosystem of new angel investors. 180 - > They breed a lot of interesting new startups, like second, third generation 181 - > Big founder starting. 182 - > So you build that sort of flywheel with operators.

183 - > Like in Europe and US, the same approach. 184 - > So even per capita in Europe is 3.5 times more engineers per capita comparing to So there is a 185 - > potential. 186 - > There are other challenges.

187 - > We can talk about them later. 188 - > Yeah. 189 - > Yeah. 190 - > Like lack of capital, obviously, on the growth stage.

191 - > Yeah. 192 - > I for Ukraine. 193 - > The same for all Eastern European countries, Richard. 194 - > There is a big, huge issue, and it's still now.

195 - > I mean, we lack growth stage capital. 196 - > Yeah. 197 - > Even Southeast Asia, you could argue that we lack 198 - > By the way. 199 - > Southeast Asia.

200 - > We'll get to Southeast Yeah, brother 201 - > and sisters here. 202 - > Yeah, yeah, yeah. 203 - > We'll get to Southeast Asia. 204 - > But I mean, the topic I want to talk about is obviously TA Ventures' impressive track record, 205 - > right?

206 - > I mean, we have 15 unicorns and six IPOs in our portfolio. 207 - > Right? 208 - > I think that places us amongst one of the, you know, in terms of track record, amongst one of 209 - > the top firms. 210 - > What do you see as the key factors behind the success?

211 - > Right? 212 - > You know, because there are very few firms that can say that they've backed that many unicorns. 213 - > What do you think is the key driving success? 214 - > Yeah.

215 - > Clearly, we can be proud of the portfolio. 216 - > I mean, unicorns and unicorns, which grew up with the JV insurers starting from 2011. 217 - > It's a huge work behind that and a lot of mistakes. 218 - > So I would say if I'm 219 - > Yeah.

220 - > If you had to say two or three key success factors you saw out of all the portfolio, and 221 - > then what drove that success amongst the unicorns and the IPOs? 222 - > I would say, as I said, originally from the business, offline business. 223 - > So analytical skills, having several businesses, and surviving every day in the 224 - > Ukrainian ecosystem, in the Eastern European ecosystem. 225 - > It was not easy.

226 - > It was tough being a solo founder. 227 - > I mean, you learn this habit of sensing the good founders and the deals by intuition. 228 - > So that's shaped maybe the choices I've made with the first founder, with the first TA 229 - > Ventures one. 230 - > And I mean, just reading the people, reading the dynamics of the founders, it's all with the 231 - > founders.

232 - > It's always like a true bet on the founders. 233 - > And my biggest losses back then were betting on the companies where I did not meet the 234 - > founders. 235 - > Back then, I did not know. 236 - > I mean, that But 237 - > But you didn't meet the founders?

238 - > Yes. 239 - > In person? 240 - > I lost, yes. 241 - > I lost all the companies.

242 - > It says, you know, sometimes you have to get on that plane. 243 - > Right? 244 - > You should. 245 - > Yeah.

246 - > Yeah. 247 - > And we discuss it. 248 - > You tell me all the time now. 249 - > You have to get on the plane to meet the founders.

250 - > This is exactly. 251 - > And looking back, I mean, when you meet the founder and you understand that you are 252 - > trapped, so you would not invest, but you're already there. 253 - > And they have a lot of interesting stories. 254 - > And one day, hopefully, we'll make a book on TA Ventures' journey.

255 - > It might be very interesting. 256 - > So learnings, I mean, always bet on top founders, making founders, diligence, 257 - > especially in our stage. 258 - > Do you care about founders that have previously, you know, started businesses 259 - > before? 260 - > Or, like, in terms of what about if you see a smart guy that's on as, like, you know, he has 261 - > a he's very passionate about building something and, you know, but he's you know, this is his 262 - > first, you know, rodeo.

263 - > Right? 264 - > But he just has extreme passion, extremely ambitious. 265 - > Would you take a chance on those sort of founders? 266 - > Yeah, Richard, we can kind of read the people of venture business, especially investing in 267 - > the early stage.

268 - > This is our stages of investment. 269 - > So what 270 - > would It's only about founders. 271 - > It's about a background check on who is that girl, who is that guy. 272 - > I mean Mhmm.

273 - > Did they build something when they were still at school? 274 - > Yeah. 275 - > I mean, did they 276 - > trade chewing gum? 277 - > That's that's always a good trait.

278 - > Right? 279 - > I always I always like to ask about entrepreneurial. 280 - > What their what their background is. 281 - > Did they move around a lot when they were young?

282 - > Because it shows that they can quickly adapt to different societies. 283 - > And then also, did they play video games? 284 - > That's another one. 285 - > And then as I say, were they super entrepreneurial?

286 - > Right? 287 - > For example, as I say, it could be selling chewing gum. 288 - > You know, in my case, I was, you know, selling FIFA coins. 289 - > Right?

290 - > In someone else's case, it was, I don't know, you know, selling chocolate at, you know, a 291 - > cheaper price and then selling it to your peers at, you know, 5x a markup. 292 - > Right? 293 - > So those key things is, you know, what what we look for. 294 - > So yeah.

295 - > That's actually working. 296 - > And this is one of the key differentiators. 297 - > So yes, say yes or no to the founder or founding team, complementary skill, and real 298 - > expertise. 299 - > I mean, I kind of don't like, in a way, incubation.

300 - > I would say, I would name it like incubation. 301 - > I like when the people like something already, and they have expertise in some sectors. 302 - > They have deep expertise, better, of course, have a monopoly of idea, which makes them 303 - > different. 304 - > They can build on this monopoly in a way.

305 - > That's what Peter T. 306 - > likes. 307 - > We do like. 308 - > too.

309 - > But expertise, and expertise which can be proven by consumers, those who are ready to 310 - > pay, are not ready to support you. 311 - > This is completely different. 312 - > Family and friends will always buy because they like you. 313 - > You're a friend.

314 - > But go sell for real. 315 - > mean, not buying. 316 - > buying. Go sell to the market.

317 - > Yes. 318 - > So this is a clear differentiator. 319 - > I mean, like the people who are, in a way, stubborn, but they can listen. 320 - > Okay.

321 - > This is an interesting. 322 - > Some people have their own character, but are willing to take constructive feedback. 323 - > Exactly. 324 - > Exactly.

325 - > And this is actually I mean, we stayed away from many deals because of this nonconstructive 326 - > stubbornness of the founders. 327 - > Yeah, then historicals of the founder, clearly, where she or he studied, who is co-founder, 328 - > whether it's a venture build idea, let's bring let's find somebody. 329 - > But by the way, now it's working. 330 - > In a way, it's working.

331 - > Yes, 332 - > Solo founders are like this is a new system of solo founders, in which I'm kind of supportive. 333 - > They can find, but it should be like very special founder, like driver, alpha founder. 334 - > You look for out of 1,000 people, who would you back? 335 - > Two or one?

336 - > Yes. 337 - > Basically not us finding or into this dating, founders dating, but the founder herself or 338 - > himself, I mean, they are doing this founders dating. 339 - > So that can be. 340 - > But all in all, those who failed and started a new venture, I love this opportunity.

341 - > So those who fail 342 - > Especially they learned. 343 - > I mean, just spoke to a company out of Vietnam that I found very interesting. 344 - > They raised, I think, over $50 million. 345 - > They were doing $50 million in revenue.

346 - > The team, as I said, can talk about this later, but in terms of their value, I don't know, a 347 - > couple hundred million dollars, you know, they didn't figure it out. 348 - > But, you know, they said, hey. 349 - > Let's roll up our sleeves and let's try again. 350 - > You know?

351 - > This is all the learnings we've had for the last few years. 352 - > Let's build again. 353 - > This is what we wanna do. 354 - > Right?

355 - > Because we have a mission, and we wanna solve that. 356 - > And I really like that as well because, you know, as I say, they learned all the mistakes, 357 - > and they're in the best position to build that right. 358 - > So Yeah. 359 - > Kendall, I mean, age matters also.

360 - > I remember myself back in my 20s. 361 - > I mean, no fear. 362 - > I mean, doing this offline business is crazy. 363 - > I mean, I don't understand even how did I survive back then doing these businesses.

364 - > So no fear at this age of 20. 365 - > Taking moonshots. 366 - > 25 to 35 plus. 367 - > I mean, I kind of agree with some sources that that's the best way to start your first 368 - > venture.

369 - > I mean, later on, second one, of course. 370 - > It can be whatever, right? 371 - > Post 35, that's okay. 372 - > But to start no fear, I mean, this is something I like.

373 - > And when there is no you don't look back, right? 374 - > So this is process. Makes sense. 375 - > Makes sense.

376 - > You mean, you know, TA Ventures has backed, you know, multibillion-dollar companies like DeepL, 377 - > SumUp, and Soon Impress, right, at the earliest stages. 378 - > What led you to invest in these companies? 379 - > And what did you see that others have missed? 380 - > Because, I mean, these companies probably pitched everyone in the Valley, probably 381 - > everyone in Europe, and everyone in, I guess, New York, L.

A., things like this, right? 382 - > What did they miss that you guys saw? 383 - > Again, amazing, like amazing driven founders, amazing team, amazing tech, super 384 - > tech-intensive business.

385 - > And Daniel, the founder of SumUp, he still holds - still the company is like multi, 386 - > multibillion-dollar, like eight plus. 387 - > Potentially, when it will reach IPO, it will be another dimension of ten, twenty. 388 - > Yeah, that's what we, fingers crossed, hope. 389 - > in the next couple.

IPO 390 - > couple. IPO markets. 391 - > Couple of years. 392 - > I mean, clearly, stunning.

393 - > Made his fortune with the previous Moneybookers. 394 - > Could chill, right? 395 - > Do nothing. 396 - > But I like people.

397 - > They have this builder's DNA, which is amazing. 398 - > I mean, I can see it clearly. 399 - > And I'm happy to be part of this journey of SumUp, the global leader originally from 400 - > Europe. 401 - > The same was DeepL, who started to use AI in translation.

402 - > Started. 403 - > '2 404 - > thousand and '8, and when they started. 405 - > But we supported in 2010. 406 - > And they were using AI.

407 - > I mean, AI wasn't even a then. It was 408 - > back then. It to 409 - > it like smart vocabulary back then, but then transformed slowly, surely into the amazing, 410 - > amazing top-notch translation business, then moved to from Linguee, original name, to DeepL 411 - > in 2017. 412 - > When you talk to these founders, I mean, and Daniel in SumUp, I mean, they speak on their, 413 - > like, ten speed.

414 - > Right? 415 - > So you immediately understand the brainpower. 416 - > of. 417 - > the and the quality of the messages and efficiency, etc.

418 - > That's the way you can screen. 419 - > I mean, it's like dating. 420 - > I mean, you can analyze the person whether you like him or not, like 10,000 parameters. 421 - > I mean, it's not yet discovered the nature of how we immediately understand yes or no, and 422 - > then we can dig in other parameters, okay?

423 - > Life or in household or in travel, whatever. 424 - > This is next stages. 425 - > But immediately, we understand yes or no. 426 - > So the same iterating with the founders.

427 - > I mean, you can really understand if you are live. 428 - > Another big lesson I've learned is that live meetings, as I said, I mean, and live meetings 429 - > not only with the founder, but desirable with the founding team. 430 - > It makes sense, I mean, to Yeah. 431 - > Because sometimes in the U.

S. 432 - > time. 433 - > Sometimes the Zoom doesn't really help, right? 434 - > I mean, still remember, like, deals in 2022.

435 - > How for 436 - > the reason we will have these devices, which can track whether they're lying or not, whether 437 - > our emotions are true, whether statistics we are channeling or Yeah. 438 - > Exactly. 439 - > Exactly. 440 - > I mean, get a founder to wear the device as part of the diligence if 441 - > you will agree to wear it, I will agree to wear it, why not, I don't mind.

442 - > Okay? 443 - > I don't mind. 444 - > But all these, like, mind-reading startups and tech Yeah. 445 - > In your 446 - > own mind-blowing.

447 - > This this There's company usually. 448 - > Yeah. 449 - > There's there's a few interesting companies building in the space that yeah. 450 - > I mean, exceptional.

451 - > So this is this is how you read the same with the Impress. 452 - > I mean, nobody wanted to invest 453 - > in Yeah. 454 - > I met Impress in Spain. 455 - > I was quite impressed in Barcelona.

456 - > I I was quite impressed with the way they are, the efficiency they would operate. 457 - > And obviously, now they're one of the biggest aligning companies in Europe. 458 - > And 459 - > Yeah. 460 - > And this is the family team there.

461 - > Yes. 462 - > It's husband and 463 - > wife. 464 - > I mean, there's no go for venture 465 - > capital. 466 - > Usually, that's a risk.

467 - > Yeah. 468 - > It's a no-go. 469 - > Sisters, brothers, it's no-go. 470 - > Oh, no.

471 - > But look at Anthropic. 472 - > Right? 473 - > Anthropic is a 474 - > Not only yes. 475 - > Anthropic and not 476 - > only but exceptional cases.

477 - > Right? 478 - > Yeah. 479 - > Yeah. 480 - > Yeah.

481 - > Been a couple of other companies 482 - > out there. 483 - > It's all about exceptional cases. 484 - > Right? 485 - > But, anyways, let's talk about the next topic.

486 - > I mean, for Fund 3, right, TA Ventures, you know, is reducing significantly its exposure in 487 - > Europe. 488 - > What do you think is driving the strategic shift? 489 - > It's actually interesting. 490 - > So when I started, I mean, clearly, the European network was closer than the U.

S. 491 - > network. 492 - > Yeah. 493 - > And I mean, our guests in IDC and the conference were top-notch from Alan Patrick 494 - > after all top, top, top VCs in Europe and U.

S. 495 - > But Europe was in our portfolio about 70% for the first couple of years, starting from 496 - > were heavy. 497 - > Thousand. 498 - > We were heavy in Europe.

499 - > But then it was a shift. 500 - > Then it was a shift from Europe to the U.S. 501 - > Actually, it was kind of by intuition when I started to spend more and more time in the 502 - > U.

S., understanding the macroeconomics, where U.S. 503 - > isn't a global venture, like 50 plus percent, now 40 plus percent, now 45 is China, and then 504 - > the rest is it's still small.

505 - > So 5% Europe. 506 - > So then you understand, okay, it's time to and then I got another point. 507 - > Then growth financing in Europe is lacking. 508 - > Like, the majority of the deal is early stage.

509 - > And then, I mean, a lot of startups are stuck. 510 - > So the beauty in the U.S., you can access constant access to the capital.

511 - > And if you will get enough capital, by the way, we can make a back tracing with AI or whatever 512 - > and analyze a lot of startups which failed. 513 - > I would say a lot of startups, like even maybe 50-plus percent, if they would have enough 514 - > capital, they would survive. 515 - > And maybe we'll see a lot of cool startups, like amazing businesses, which would go to IPO 516 - > or an M&A or whatsoever because of the lack of capital even in the U.S.

, specifically in 517 - > Europe. 518 - > So that's the big, I mean, a part of the founders quarreling, and we can let 50% or up 519 - > to companies basically collapse because of another huge collapse is lack of capital. 520 - > So Europe is suffering more compared to the U.S.

521 - > It's hard. 522 - > It's really hard. 523 - > So that's why we started slowly but surely decreasing our allocations in Europe. 524 - > Makes sense.

525 - > In spite of the fact. 526 - > A lot of the top funds have closed their offices in Europe now. 527 - > And as I said, but there's still a few that have. 528 - > But I think.

529 - > It's not only. 530 - > Exactly. 531 - > It's not only because of that, actually. 532 - > So Europe.

533 - > Europe's changing a lot. 534 - > Politically. 535 - > Politically. 536 - > I mean, we understand we are following the news, right?

537 - > UK, Germany, France. 538 - > I mean, we can see what is going on. 539 - > Spain. 540 - > I mean, there are some big fishes in intra-Europe.

541 - > And there are problems with the European Union and different parties of the European Union. 542 - > So we can see it's happening, right? 543 - > But still, I believe there are a lot of talents. 544 - > I see that the capital invested in Europe is decreasing since 2021.

545 - > It was a big 100-plus billion invested. 546 - > And 2024 is like 40-plus billion. 547 - > So we understand what's going on. 548 - > In the US, it's vice versa.

549 - > I mean, it's growing. 550 - > It's like about $200 billion last year, and it's growing. 551 - > So that is kind of a no-brainer. 552 - > Let's keep it clear.

553 - > So 60% in our portfolio is US. 554 - > I mean, it can be like 10% plus-minus euro. 555 - > Let's 556 - > Every day our Europe exposure is going down. 557 - > You 558 - > know?

559 - > Then think 560 - > it started like 15%, 20%, and then now it's like 5%, 10%. 561 - > Yeah. 562 - > And the rest, I mean, we would like to do as much as we can now in Southeast Asia as a 563 - > region. 564 - > Yeah.

565 - > As a region. 566 - > Yeah. 567 - > In Indonesia, Thailand, Singapore, Colombia, Malaysia, Philippines. 568 - > I mean, maybe less Vietnam now, but we are watching.

569 - > I mean, several times there. 570 - > Yeah. 571 - > We have very good 572 - > content there. 573 - > There's certain interesting things, you know, for example, like the opportunity with English 574 - > learning and things like this.

575 - > Right? 576 - > Because education is a big spending area in countries like Vietnam. 577 - > So yeah. 578 - > I mean, look.

579 - > There's many opportunities. 580 - > Right? 581 - > But in terms of you know, maybe we can talk about Southeast Asia. 582 - > Right?

583 - > We're increasing our focus on Southeast Asia more and doubling down on this region. 584 - > What makes Southeast Asia such a compelling market for 585 - > I mean, the answer is there. 586 - > I mean, the young 587 - > Young population. 588 - > Population and new generations.

589 - > The demographics. 590 - > Demographics is stunning. 591 - > It's 50-plus percent under 30. 592 - > It's like an amazing opportunity to build and to bring the new generation 593 - > of massive population sizes.

594 - > Massive population. 595 - > I mean, new habits, new DNA, like tech-savvy, tech geek, and living in applications and a 596 - > completely different setup. 597 - > The internet penetration is some of the highest as well in the world. 598 - > So I 599 - > think internet.

600 - > Yes. 601 - > I think Thailand's actually close to 100%. 602 - > Philippines is, like, 90%, and Indonesia is, like, 80%. 603 - > So they're all, like, relatively, really high.

604 - > And they're not humble venture investments. 605 - > I mean, a couple of billions in Thailand, but a lot of expectations and future plans and also 606 - > supported by the government. 607 - > I mean, by 2030, the idea of those countries is to have 30% of their GDP built by the new 608 - > economy, by tech economy, which gives us a lot of opportunities. 609 - > It's just at the beginning.

610 - > So we just write on time to the party, right? 611 - > And our investors, actually, LPs and our Eastern European angle of our friends and 612 - > network friends and founders and our angel investors within our ecosystem of iClub. 613 - > I mean, they are interested to diversify. 614 - > I mean, lessons learned.

615 - > I mean, we don't want to be concentrated. 616 - > We are not linked to any specific geography. 617 - > I mean, being from Eastern Europe, but building kind of helicopter view on U.S.

, Europe, MENA, 618 - > and Southeast Asia on the way, so that's a very special angle and opportunity we are opening 619 - > for our LPs and our angel investors to diversify. 620 - > Because the logo or slogan of the today, I mean, survival mode in the venture business, in 621 - > the business per se, I mean, it's just to diversify and track and anticipate, as we did, 622 - > new geographies to like in our case now is Southeast Asia. 623 - > A lot of talents, a lot of businesses to be disrupted, a lot of opportunities to start with 624 - > the digitalization of the offline businesses, small, midsized businesses, SMBs, fintech, 625 - > clearly, and a lot of other opportunities.

626 - > It reminds me in a way our geography system in Europe. 627 - > I mean, cash is still there, right? 628 - > And this is an opportunity, I mean, to get in this market area and to leverage Maybe 629 - > not necessarily super early, right? 630 - > But it's like we had that sort of wave in 2021 where there was a lot of capital flowing to the 631 - > market now, actually, because of, you know, the massive sort of overvalued companies and things 632 - > like this.

633 - > A lot of people like, capital started flowing out of the market. 634 - > Right? 635 - > So now as a, you know, investor doubling down the region, that's probably the best time to 636 - > invest. 637 - > So I totally agree there.

638 - > I mean, next question we want to talk about is, obviously, I guess with me now sort of leading 639 - > the Southeast Asia strategy, what changes or new opportunities do you see for TA Ventures in 640 - > the region? 641 - > Right? 642 - > I mean, how do you envision the firm's role growing here? 643 - > Do you want it to be sort of a household global seed name, one of the best pre-seed and seed 644 - > funds before globally, but now for Southeast Asia as well?

645 - > Or what do you see? 646 - > So our actual value proposition is very interesting. 647 - > So we are different from many other funds. 648 - > We are not a geography or vertical-specific fund.

649 - > We are early-stage funds. 650 - > So we have kind of a generic thesis. 651 - > But still, there is specifics of that. 652 - > I mean, we'd like to be tech and talent intense, so betting on the interesting tech and 653 - > talent businesses.

654 - > But we can have a different we are seeing a little bit different angle in Asia. 655 - > So basically here, there are lot of opportunities to tap into the kind of semi 656 - > private equity, semi venture capital market. 657 - > I mean, a lot of interesting offline businesses, can be enhanced with the digital 658 - > layer, enhanced with AI. 659 - > And we can do it really quickly.

660 - > It's like in Africa, right? 661 - > So mobile-only, like life, changed the ecosystem of Africa dramatically. 662 - > Dramatically, so all mobile-driven businesses. 663 - > In Southeast Asia, now it's a way just to be in the front because of these new opportunities 664 - > with AI, because of the new opportunities in digitalization.

665 - > Mhmm. 666 - > With offline businesses can be shaped really quick. 667 - > And we would like not to miss this opportunity, specifically in the Southeast Asia markets. 668 - > Yeah.

669 - > No. 670 - > It makes sense. 671 - > Makes sense. 672 - > I mean, you know, TA Ventures has been able to secure, you know, early access to some of the 673 - > most promising startups globally.

674 - > Right? 675 - > I think what is the because, I mean, you know, in venture, sourcing winning deals is a very, 676 - > very important element. 677 - > What do you think has been key to TA Ventures winning all these deals? 678 - > I mean, the first, TA Ventures won basically build the history, I mean, with 148 679 - > investments, with 73 exits within 2011 to 2021.

680 - > We've created an ecosystem of 15 unicorns and 23 unicorns. 681 - > So basically investing quite early in the majority of companies. 682 - > We did still do some B stage, A stage deals, some growth stage deal, but less than 15% 683 - > total. 684 - > So that created them, I would say, huge opportunity to build the new thinking of TA 685 - > Ventures for the next years.

686 - > So 2021, 2023, basically is the TA Ventures tool. 687 - > 2022, 2023 investment period, we build them like a new approach. 688 - > So the funds we raise every two years. 689 - > It's completely different from the standards in the venture capital, not ten years.

690 - > Yeah. 691 - > People don't like, like, long, long, long runs and never see much unless you 692 - > become, like, an asset manager. 693 - > At least, yes. 694 - > You're managing, like, tens of billions of dollars.

695 - > Yeah. 696 - > Tens of billions, like Sequoia, eight-plus billion dollars or whatever. 697 - > I mean, others. 698 - > Sequoia's managing 50 now.

699 - > Yeah. 700 - > Yeah. 701 - > But one fund. 702 - > I mean, fund, eight-plus, and clearly multiple funds.

703 - > So either across stages or, I mean, you are an expert, as you asked before. 704 - > I mean, we are an expert in early stage. 705 - > This is our expertise, our core expertise. 706 - > And we would like to remain with this expertise and bet on our founders' network.

707 - > So what happened after the TA Ventures won? 708 - > I mean, we built this founders' network, which brings other founders, like cool founders, 709 - > great founders, founders which are starting their ventures. 710 - > And we have, like, 10-plus cases over even a second and third-time founders within the 711 - > ecosystem of TA Ventures. 712 - > So the majority of the companies, like 80-plus percent of the companies we are investing 713 - > currently, these are the companies from the network.

714 - > I mean, from the network, from the founders, or angels from our closed ecosystem. 715 - > We love to deal and to mingle with the founders and angels. 716 - > I mean, and then now we could be good friends being from nowhere, from Europe, from other 717 - > geographies. 718 - > We are all like the team of basically, are and, according now, only American and Thai.

719 - > Thai British, yeah. 720 - > Thai British partners. 721 - > Yeah. 722 - > Otherwise, it's Ukrainian DNA, and we understand each other.

723 - > And we are like a helicopter. 724 - > Basically, the new terminology is integrated into Ventures. 725 - > It's a dynamic partnership. 726 - > So we are all moving around, like living a quarter or half a year in several locations, 727 - > covering really closely on the partners' level, U.

S., Europe, MENA, and Southeast Asia, and 728 - > having core venture partners in the geographies of our interest. 729 - > So with a lean team of 11 people, we are screening like 1,000 plus companies and invest 730 - > in 20, 25, 30 per year. 731 - > So basically up to $50 million every two years, 50 companies in two years.

732 - > And then choosing smartly, I mean, only like top performers. 733 - > Where we bet to make like 100x. 734 - > Okay? 735 - > Mhmm.

736 - > Two, three times per fund, up to 10% of the fund. 737 - > Mhmm. 738 - > And three, five bets could be a bit more with the 5% of the fund. 739 - > This is a strategy.

740 - > Mhmm. 741 - > And all in all, it gives us the opportunity to build the portfolio, which will bring us 3 to 742 - > 5x in five, seven years, much shorter periods compared to funds. 743 - > And we start exiting from year three. 744 - > I mean, this is the average exit period of the 73 exits.

745 - > We reached with the first TA Ventures. 746 - > Three plus years, three to four years, let's say, to be on the safe side. 747 - > I mean, that's when our first liquidity event happens. 748 - > Yeah, so this is the strategy.

749 - > That's what investors are looking for. 750 - > They would like to be closer to the sexy business of venture capital. 751 - > Because for a majority of entrepreneurs and people with their request of intellectual 752 - > investment, so that's what venture capital is providing to the audience. 753 - > I mean, intellectual investments where you can help the startups.

754 - > And this, I'm now speaking about iClub, I mean 755 - > Yeah, yeah, yeah. 756 - > And our LPs and friends of the network, I mean, can help startups with your ecosystem of 757 - > contacts, with your alumni networks, with your door-opening opportunities. 758 - > So be connected, be there, influence, impact, to be part of this multiplier effect, which 759 - > early stage is creating. 760 - > Because you are not nobody when you are just putting money in the growth fund, or you are 761 - > playing on the open market, like investing in crypto or whatever, I mean, being influenced by 762 - > the big whales, whatever.

763 - > Here, you can control the business, which is developing on a monthly basis. 764 - > You know the fundamentals as well. 765 - > Yeah. 766 - > And we are enjoying you, me, and our team, we are enjoying reading the reports of 170 767 - > companies in our active portfolio.

768 - > That's what we do, yeah. 769 - > Yeah. 770 - > And that's what we do. 771 - > And this is the best book you can ever imagine.

772 - > That's why it gives us the opportunity to say to the founders to be helpful, to fundraise. 773 - > Yeah. 774 - > And we can do it seamlessly because we have like 3,000 plus co-investors across our 250 775 - > plus investments since 2010. 776 - > And they love to deal with us because we are not arguing with them.

777 - > Because we are likable, I would say. 778 - > I mean, they're happy to see the companies from the U.S., from Europe, from MENA, and from 779 - > Southeast Asia.

780 - > So this helicopter dynamic venture partners proximity approach. 781 - > Right. 782 - > It's actually what is working. 783 - > Yeah.

784 - > I mean, that's super interesting. 785 - > You know, venture capital is becoming increasingly, you know, specialized. 786 - > Right? 787 - > I mean, does TA Ventures see itself evolving towards sector-specific expertise?

788 - > Or do you believe in maintaining a broad approach? 789 - > Broader approach, yes. 790 - > But still, I mean, we like, as I said, tech and talent-intensive businesses. 791 - > I mean, but specialize 792 - > in a particular sector?

793 - > Vertical, I would say. 794 - > Vertical and models. 795 - > B2B marketplaces, clearly. 796 - > That's what we like now.

797 - > E-commerce is still in our portfolio, but less, depending on the geography. 798 - > More in Southeast Asia. 799 - > More in the US, yeah. 800 - > Europe, probably.

801 - > Less in Europe, exactly. 802 - > So we understand the scale, the size of the market, etcetera. 803 - > Health care, I mean, it's like if you bet on any specific vertical, I mean, it's whatever 804 - > offline and tech businesses which can be enhanced and enhanced by AI agents. 805 - > And this is something we like.

806 - > I mean, where is the raw component, like be closer to the ground, to production, to 807 - > supply 808 - > chain. 809 - > This is what we like a lot. 810 - > I mean, this is in the newer thinking of untapped opportunities in all across different 811 - > markets, from the US to Asia, clearly. 812 - > And the health care and biotech.

813 - > I mean, whatever is driven by the science, I mean, this is a completely different animal. 814 - > And we are working with the top-notch partners and experts in these sectors, mostly in the US 815 - > clearly, because the market, the biotech, the market is there. 816 - > We learn from health care verticals in the US. 817 - > We see their thinking of those verticals in Europe.

818 - > And we can extrapolate this experience in Europe and Southeast Asia. 819 - > Because the markets, if to see on a global scale, because of COVID, because of all these 820 - > wars and all this shit show we are seeing now in politics in different geographies. 821 - > I mean, repetitive like black swans are happening. 822 - > So where to, right?

823 - > So it's a national agenda now. 824 - > So the geographies are closing in a way. 825 - > So a big, big opportunity now to bet on the import whatever was your import. 826 - > I mean, we can stop.

827 - > I mean, not 100%, but whatever we can substitute and produce internally. 828 - > That's a big picture now, national strategy. 829 - > Energy, the same. 830 - > I mean, whatever.

831 - > I mean, health data, health privacy, data privacy, data privacy sets. 832 - > Exactly. 833 - > Security, right? 834 - > I mean, biotech data and whatever is kind of like tangible and you should secure.

835 - > I mean, the geographies would like to close and build their AI on their proprietary data, on a 836 - > national scale, on an enterprise level, on a company level. 837 - > So this is their thinking of the future of models and how their geographies are thinking. 838 - > You see the UK is like France, intra-Europe, right? 839 - > US, clearly, I mean, at the top performers AI, they are there, it's concentrated.

840 - > But it's real. 841 - > I mean, this is real. 842 - > So then what other geographies will do? 843 - > You see what Qatar is saying on partnership with the US top players, now Saudi, now Arab 844 - > Emirates.

845 - > I mean, they are working. 846 - > I mean, there will be some solutions, decisions, etc. 847 - > They would like to preserve their national interest. 848 - > And it's from everything, from whatever is like, why to import, let's export.

849 - > Yeah, yeah. 850 - > Why do we have the balance, our trade balance like that, and we would like to fix it. 851 - > Yeah. 852 - > Why China is super like Yeah.

853 - > We would like to have the same. 854 - > Yeah. 855 - > Yeah. 856 - > Right?

857 - > I mean, okay. 858 - > It's plans, but it's for real. 859 - > I mean Yeah. 860 - > That's the challenges of the geographies.

861 - > No. 862 - > That's that's you know, as I say, I think we are totally, you know, in agreement there. 863 - > I mean, you know, our team is very small. 864 - > Right?

865 - > I mean, on the investment side, we have about six people. 866 - > The AUM we're managing is close to $200 million. 867 - > I mean, what do you call it? 868 - > How does TA Ventures operate with, you know, remarkable efficiency with just such a lean 869 - > team?

870 - > If you look at other sorts of funds, hedge funds, you know, venture capital funds, and 871 - > things like this, they're all very, how do I say it? 872 - > You know, they have, like, 20, 30, 40 people, and, you know, they're managing even less. 873 - > But I would say, with us, it's six people, and the AUM is $200 million. 874 - > So how do we maintain that efficiency?

875 - > Yeah. 876 - > So Richard, the answer is simple. 877 - > I mean, you've been investing for years your own money, right? 878 - > That is an answer.

879 - > So I started investing my own money 100 in the first time. 880 - > No. 881 - > But in terms of not about that, but more or less about covering the geographies. 882 - > Right?

883 - > Because, I mean, you know, some people just say, okay, just Southeast Asia, but we're 884 - > covering the world. 885 - > Right, in terms of, you know, okay. 886 - > I'm based in Southeast Asia. 887 - > You know, you're based out in New York, you know, Middle East, Europe sometimes as well, 888 - > and then, you know, the other partners travel as well.

889 - > But it's such, you know, heavy ground. 890 - > I mean, is it sort of those deep relationships and partnerships with local funds in the 891 - > region, or is it just, I guess, the pattern recognition we see in, for example, emerging 892 - > markets to other markets and we're like, you know, these models make sense. 893 - > And then, you know, in Europe and U.S.

, right, as I say, we're reducing our exposure in Europe 894 - > but increasing our exposure in the U.S. 895 - > For example, we're reducing Europe, increasing Southeast Asia. 896 - > Yeah.

897 - > So exactly, I'm coming there. 898 - > So you're investing your own money. 899 - > So the first one was 100% myself. 900 - > Second was 70%.

901 - > And from starting onwards, I mean, it's a minimum 25%. 902 - > I mean, myself and partners and all our venture partners are also investing into the fund. 903 - > So we are all committed. 904 - > And we are very responsible.

905 - > Do you not believe in big teams? 906 - > I mean, in early stage now, 907 - > the 908 - > connection on the personal level should be like 100% plus. 909 - > So I mean, you cannot avoid traveling. 910 - > And our pattern of TA Ventures clearly confirms the thesis.

911 - > If you are acting like a helicopter being everywhere, on a quarterly basis in all four 912 - > geographies, are addressing for all the partners. 913 - > And venture partners are also traveling intra the geography plus outside. 914 - > I mean, that's the only way. 915 - > I mean, seeing the founders having the skin in the game, because that would build this network 916 - > effort.

917 - > Because when you are saying that you invested 1% or 2% or 3% in the fund, I mean, this is one 918 - > thesis, right? 919 - > But when you're saying that all my money is working in my funds, this is my core business. 920 - > Then you build the trust within LPs, within friends of the network, within angels. 921 - > And that's why we have 2,000 angels in our angel community in 40 countries.

922 - > They know what we are doing. 923 - > They know that we have our skin in the game. 924 - > And then we work for ourselves and for our network. 925 - > And this is for real.

926 - > mean, it's not about salary because our small fund of $50 million it doesn't cover the 11% 927 - > We're in the fulfillment. 928 - > We're in the fulfillment. 929 - > Professionals, yeah. 930 - > It's not about that.

931 - > Long mean, we didn't have a salary. 932 - > It's just compensation of travel, maybe, right? 933 - > Yeah. 934 - > But we work for the upside.

935 - > Yeah. 936 - > And we are together with our LPs and angel investors. 937 - > So that's completely different. 938 - > We will, you know, as I say, if the company wins, we all win big.

939 - > Exactly. 940 - > And the way 941 - > it the Angel Club is actually the same. 942 - > Basically, we don't need to raise the growth stage funds. 943 - > Mhmm.

944 - > I mean, we have a couple of hundred million quality allocations in our growth stage 945 - > allocations across our companies which are raising. 946 - > And we love these allocations. 947 - > We would like to put money ourselves, but we don't have the funds. 948 - > So we have the Angel Club.

949 - > And they basically don't risk. 950 - > Unlocks later stage capital, less And 951 - > things like Series A and onwards, mean, we are taking the risk of the TA Ventures. 952 - > This is interesting, also, message on how the future networks of venture capital, angel 953 - > networks. 954 - > And networks of investors can be considered as a future development of venture capital.

955 - > So basically, you are sharing your own allocations. 956 - > I mean, we know that the companies were through the whole process starting from the pre-seed or 957 - > seed with the TA Ventures we know. 958 - > And we are both sides, like ourselves and Angel, are interested in the upside in the 959 - > carrier, I would say, right? 960 - > Yeah.

961 - > So we'd like to show their best. 962 - > We would like to show the best because otherwise, I mean, why to show and to waste the 963 - > money of angels for the worst company, right? 964 - > We should not see the 965 - > shine, show skin again. 966 - > If to show the best and then to have 10x or 3x or 20x or 100x upside.

967 - > Actually, we have in our portfolio like three companies with 100x upside and another couple 968 - > of companies coming. 969 - > So that's the target now. 970 - > Not even 10x, but to pick up those like jewels. 971 - > I mean, couple of them fund with a 100x upside and, like, nurture them and invest and put more 972 - > money with Angel Network.

973 - > And do you see, like okay. 974 - > Even as your AUM actually continues to grow, you know, as I say, over the couple of next 975 - > years, might be 2, 3x the amount we're currently at, right, do you still see the team 976 - > size staying the same? 977 - > Or do you think we will have to grow it even more? 978 - > It depends on the geographies which we will add to our ecosystem.

979 - > So as of now, I've been targeting these geographies. 980 - > We are just fine. 981 - > So what we can do, we can maybe open and we are open to add more venture partners to the 982 - > portfolio with a sectoral expertise. 983 - > So somebody in Web3, I'd say, somebody with a deep expertise in cybersecurity, somebody with 984 - > a deep expertise in biotech, okay?

985 - > So that verticalization of venture partners, yes. 986 - > If you will consider to add another vertical, either India or Africa in the next fund or 987 - > maybe. 988 - > Next funds, maybe. 989 - > I mean, then clearly, yes.

990 - > I guess 991 - > Then we have the The 992 - > same way what we're doing with Southeast Asia now. 993 - > Right? 994 - > Before, that wasn't too much on the cards, but you know, now I'm becoming much more active 995 - > than, you know, it's much more on the cards. 996 - > Right?

997 - > And then as we do more in Southeast Asia and allocate more capital, then, you know, 998 - > obviously, then we'll look to, as I say, allocate more resources. 999 - > Yeah. 1000 - > But with your network, you have a huge network. 1001 - > Pretty in South Australia and not only.

1002 - > Mean Yeah. 1003 - > What we are seeing, I mean, it proves the concept that venture capital like operator. 1004 - > Maybe because we are from business. 1005 - > We are very much, all the partners have very interesting complementary skills, partners and 1006 - > venture partners.

1007 - > And we can fight, okay? 1008 - > We can make a turnaround. 1009 - > We can jump into the deal and really have the 1010 - > That's what is like restructuring. 1011 - > When you are too big, when you have too small a skin in the game.

1012 - > I mean, there are different stories, right? 1013 - > I mean, there are a lot of smart people. 1014 - > But my take is, I mean, I prefer to have a small network of partners with a smaller fund, 1015 - > and return more capital. 1016 - > and return more capital.

1017 - > Because, I mean, the learning is learned. 1018 - > With the $50 million investing in pre-seed and seed, you can clearly make three to five times 1019 - > on the five to seven plus years. 1020 - > And that's what we are targeting. 1021 - > And that's why there are angels and LPs and network.

1022 - > They are eager to stay longer, which is like an alternative asset class where you can stay. 1023 - > Well, you should know tomorrow, you will lose the money. 1024 - > It's like in the business. 1025 - > You invest.

1026 - > You should let the business grow, right? 1027 - > And then from year three, I mean, it's changing. 1028 - > So the same approach and the same approach will not change. 1029 - > So basically, we'd like to do more of the same.

1030 - > Makes sense. 1031 - > Okay. 1032 - > So it looks like a lean team is the way to go, an efficient team as well. 1033 - > In Southeast Asia, we've identified key emerging trends.

1034 - > I've been spending a lot of time looking at consumer-enabled AI, stablecoin infrastructure, 1035 - > elderly care, precision health care, and preventative health care, right? 1036 - > I guess, which trends resonate most with you as well? 1037 - > And where do you see the biggest opportunities? 1038 - > Because without investments in the US and Europe, do you see a lot of overlap there?

1039 - > Clearly, there are models that should be extrapolated in the region 100%. 1040 - > There are specifics of the region we discussed there, like B2B SaaS models. 1041 - > But like, for example, people always talk about SaaS, right? 1042 - > And then we always make that argument that in SaaS, in Southeast Asia or emerging markets, 1043 - > the barrier or the sort of ceiling for SaaS is, you know, 50 million, 30 million ARR.

1044 - > You apply a multiple of, like, you know, three to four x. 1045 - > That's a one hundred million dollar company. 1046 - > That doesn't even return a, you know, a fund. 1047 - > Right?

1048 - > Or it depends on the fund size. 1049 - > But in the US and Europe, we've had billion-dollar ARR SaaS companies. 1050 - > Right? 1051 - > So it depends on the geography.

1052 - > Right? 1053 - > But maybe we'll get there for SaaS eventually. 1054 - > Actually, I'm fine to invest in companies with $100 million potential of exit. 1055 - > It depends on when you enter.

1056 - > True. 1057 - > For us, I mean, if it's a smart team, if the market is there and it is there, I mean, you 1058 - > can see what was built right, better wrong in the US and Europe and build it in the right 1059 - > way, cheaper. 1060 - > Yeah. 1061 - > Because now you can kick off the company with 50k.

1062 - > Right? 1063 - > Yeah. 1064 - > Depends on how 1065 - > I know. 1066 - > Use GPT.

1067 - > Exactly. 1068 - > You know, Replit. 1069 - > You use all these tools, and, you know, you have an MVP. 1070 - > And exactly.

1071 - > deck. 1072 - > No. 1073 - > Yeah. 1074 - > Just everything done really quick.

1075 - > Yeah. 1076 - > And maybe now is a good time for us as a team because we're kind of, I mean, from an offline 1077 - > real business background. 1078 - > So why not inject this expertise and uncork this huge opportunity for businesses, like 1079 - > offline businesses, which can be enhanced by the new tech digital layer, like aggregation of 1080 - > different types of small businesses and services? 1081 - > Whatever will not be disrupted by the robots, right?

1082 - > So not warehouse logistics per se, but other businesses. 1083 - > I mean, there are a lot of opportunities in Southeast Asia. 1084 - > Build like $100 million exit companies, we are fine with this. 1085 - > We can ride, get in less 1086 - > than 15, 10.

1087 - > And you see we are entering like 5, 10 million. 1088 - > So this is basically the thesis of TA Ventures, to enter from the pre-seed, to seed from 5 to 1089 - > 25, plus-minus, desirably closer to the center. 1090 - > Sorry, five. 1091 - > 12, 10.

1092 - > On 1093 - > the series, we had several companies who have entered even cheaper, like $2 million, right? 1094 - > I mean, there are opportunities there. 1095 - > And that's exactly the expertise of the team. 1096 - > So this mastermind, when everybody is exchanging their geographical and expertise 1097 - > during our investment committee, that's what differentiates a global team like ours.

1098 - > It's very interesting as well on our calls, right? 1099 - > Because we have, especially on IC calls, we have myself somewhere in Asia. 1100 - > In MENA. 1101 - > Somewhere in MENA.

1102 - > In U.S. 1103 - > Stefan, somewhere in Europe. 1104 - > I like to be in the U.

S. 1105 - > As I say, Alena, I don't know, New York or Berlin, and then Ilia, London. 1106 - > So it's like everyone's everywhere. 1107 - > And then some and then as I say, the rest of the other people are just, you know, sometimes 1108 - > at the airports.

1109 - > Right? 1110 - > I think we're just always on the move. 1111 - > But, yeah, as I say, it goes without saying that, you if you wanna find the best deal, 1112 - > sometimes you have to get on that plane and meet the founder. 1113 - > So there's there's hundreds 1114 - > of.

1115 - > Totally agree there. 1116 - > But in terms of I mean, where do you see TA Ventures over the next five to ten years? 1117 - > Right? 1118 - > What's the long-term vision for the firm?

1119 - > I mean, to keep creating the ecosystem of top-notch founders because that is our funnel. 1120 - > Right? 1121 - > And this is our multiplier because they bring more and more interesting deals. 1122 - > Mhmm.

1123 - > Maybe. 1124 - > I mean, maybe. 1125 - > In a way, like a TA Ventures operator mafia, right? 1126 - > Exactly.

1127 - > Something like that? 1128 - > Yeah. 1129 - > Exactly. 1130 - > And adding more like smart venture partners with the sectoral expertise and having new 1131 - > friends.

1132 - > So this is our goal. 1133 - > I mean, to do more of the same. 1134 - > I mean, plus million can be in the future now. 1135 - > It's like a hard cap 50.

1136 - > Every two years, I mean, dynamic fund, open to our network, open to founders to get in, open 1137 - > to angel investors from iClub Global to get in. 1138 - > So that's the model we like. 1139 - > I mean, non-lead, but helping a lot with the fundraising and with the network. 1140 - > Yeah.

1141 - > Crystalizing our network to the new, like, keys on the ground. 1142 - > I mean, we like solo new managers of emerging markets in U.S., in Europe, and those who made 1143 - > it, those who built the company, exited, and they understand.

1144 - > These are the people who know bullshit metrics, right? 1145 - > So we like to make new friends. 1146 - > Because unfortunately, I mean, in 2010, I've seen a lot of my friends raise a lot of, lot 1147 - > of, lot of capital, like hundreds of millions, like billions of capital. 1148 - > I mean, we are not friends any longer.

1149 - > I mean, it's hard to talk to them. 1150 - > I mean, they have another problem, how to return these funds. 1151 - > We don't have this problem. 1152 - > Or we 1153 - > would like to deal exactly on their age, but to 1154 - > perform mean, they do well on the fees, but I mean, we do well on the 1155 - > Yeah, that's 1156 - > the issue.

1157 - > And another thinking of this proximity or partnership plus angels and investors proximity 1158 - > to the kind of family approach. 1159 - > I mean, it's like a startup approach, basically. 1160 - > When you're all together, we see each other. 1161 - > You understand the dynamics.

1162 - > I mean, you share the contacts. 1163 - > You invest in the same startups you offer to your network. 1164 - > So it's like you proved, I mean, that we are together, so this builds another level of 1165 - > trust. 1166 - > And the more and more proper contacts will come.

1167 - > So new friends, like early-stage investors, can lead-gen many interesting opportunities to us. 1168 - > That's in the future, but we don't know what will happen in the next five, ten years, 1169 - > especially with AI, etc., etc. 1170 - > Actually interesting, I mean, we are now considering we are working on new opportunities 1171 - > with our portfolio company.

1172 - > They're building agents for enterprises and tech companies. 1173 - > So we'd like to do a similar approach that is trending now. 1174 - > So let's understand which startups are at the early stage and growth stage to invest in. 1175 - > In our case, I mean, growth stage, B stage is interesting.

1176 - > We can bet raise. 1177 - > A stage is more challenging, but we still like to do that. 1178 - > But we would like to go a little bit further to understand, I mean, how to read, how to 1179 - > translate. 1180 - > Yeah.

1181 - > All the different parameters which will integrate into our algorithm based on our 1182 - > knowledge base, how to assess the companies which we don't know, how to screen the 1183 - > companies from those geographies where we are active in the U.S. 1184 - > and Europe and MENA and more in Southeast Asia, how to read, I mean find, and discover new 1185 - > founders. 1186 - > So that's what we are working on.

1187 - > And it will be a cool engine we will build, like a cool algorithm, like our proprietary, 1188 - > like, TA Ventures, TAV, Algo. 1189 - > Mhmm. 1190 - > We are working hard on this. 1191 - > And I think in a couple of months, we'll be ready to test drive this approach enhanced, 1192 - > like, TA Ventures enhanced by AI.

1193 - > Let's see. 1194 - > But all in all, even without this engine, without this additional discovery, we are more. 1195 - > AI agents are playing a massive part right now in technology. 1196 - > I mean, industry, right?

1197 - > I think it's obviously making companies much more efficient, things like this. 1198 - > The trend I've been mainly focused on is consumer-enabled AI, focusing on businesses 1199 - > which haven't really used AI before. 1200 - > These are just traditional businesses or just everyday consumer businesses, right? 1201 - > But once they've enhanced AI, it 10x the sales, 10x the productivity.

1202 - > Consumer Yeah, everything. 1203 - > We've seen with you this opportunity, I mean, to fashion show, like in how much? 1204 - > For $2, right, compared to $200,000. 1205 - > AI fashion shows.

1206 - > AI fashion shows. 1207 - > Yeah. 1208 - > E-commerce. 1209 - > And when you see yourself, I mean, 1210 - > Yeah.

1211 - > And a lot of opportunities from video integrated text, I mean, content. 1212 - > I mean, clearly, there are a lot of beautiful unknowns in the next couple of years. 1213 - > But AI is real. 1214 - > I mean, the help is real.

1215 - > I mean, I cannot imagine my life without 1216 - > Yeah. 1217 - > I mean, like, as I say, 1218 - > our GPTs. 1219 - > Sometimes I have, like, you know, four or five back-to-back meetings. 1220 - > Sometimes even more.

1221 - > I'm sure you're the same. 1222 - > You know, I'm literally using, what do you call it, granola. 1223 - > Right? 1224 - > As I say, just they every call because I'm moving on to the next one already, it 1225 - > summarizes the AI meetings, notes, and then puts in a file.

1226 - > Done. 1227 - > And then, you know, as you say, any sort of doing due diligence, things like this, I would 1228 - > use, you know, deep research and, obviously, for market analysis, all these things. 1229 - > Right? 1230 - > And GPT for, you know, email sometimes, things like this.

1231 - > Right? 1232 - > And even those tools like Superhuman, stuff like this out there and, like, sort of, you 1233 - > know, AI executive assistance. 1234 - > Right? 1235 - > So, yeah, I mean, it's playing a good part, but I think it's quite an interesting, you know, 1236 - > future where, you know, AI won't replace, you know, certain labor.

1237 - > Right? 1238 - > I think it will replace people that don't know how to use AI. 1239 - > They will free the people, basically. 1240 - > Correct.

1241 - > AI is making us free on a different level. 1242 - > Basically, the next 10 years 1243 - > You know, you're having to you are able to do 10x amount of stuff you're able, you know, then 1244 - > before. 1245 - > Right. 1246 - > So it enhances, in a way, like, 1247 - > for productivity.

1248 - > Humankind, I mean, the intellectual curiosity and creativity. 1249 - > Which ultimately will increase to beneficial GDP. 1250 - > So everybody. 1251 - > I mean totally agree.

1252 - > So yeah. 1253 - > I mean, you know, before we wrap up, let's have a quick, you know, quickfire in terms of, you 1254 - > know, on a few on a few, like, you know, quick questions. 1255 - > First one is which I know you're not excited about Europe as much. 1256 - > Which market are you most excited about in Europe?

1257 - > In Europe? 1258 - > Yeah. 1259 - > That's a good question. 1260 - > I mean 1261 - > I didn't want to ask you Southeast Asia because you would have said like I know you just said 1262 - > so.

1263 - > Europe, that's a bit of a tough one. 1264 - > I'm Nordics. 1265 - > Nordics? 1266 - > Yeah.

1267 - > Okay. 1268 - > Any market particular? 1269 - > I mean, markets. 1270 - > I mean, interesting to - I mean, there are a lot of opportunities with the cool companies from 1271 - > there, like Denmark, Benelux.

1272 - > I mean, a new market. 1273 - > Surprise maybe for bigger markets. 1274 - > We've been there. 1275 - > We've seen.

1276 - > But if to uncork some new interesting opportunities, I would look at the Nordics. 1277 - > XAI or OpenAI? 1278 - > Who do you think wins? 1279 - > XAI, I can be biased, but yeah.

1280 - > Okay. 1281 - > Okay. 1282 - > That was 1283 - > very - He's undervalued. 1284 - > Was very quick.

1285 - > That was very quick. 1286 - > Totally agree. 1287 - > Yeah, in terms of and the third one is that most interesting sector for you right now. 1288 - > So you know that I'm a big fan of biotech and science and genetics and the 1289 - > direction.

Is 1290 - > Is that the one you're most bullish on right now? 1291 - > I love this sector. 1292 - > Health care plus biotech, I love it a lot. 1293 - > So I'm fascinated by the mind-reading businesses.

1294 - > And there's a lot going on, I love it. 1295 - > I mean, it's it's amazing. 1296 - > It's scary. 1297 - > Mhmm.

1298 - > But it's an amazing CRISPR. 1299 - > Yeah. 1300 - > Genomics. 1301 - > CRISPR Therapeutics, the share price of that company has been - I just got - we've been holding 1302 - > it for years, and then in terms of like, you know, come up, come down.

1303 - > Now it's, I don't know, like $8-$10. 1304 - > People still don't get the thesis. 1305 - > But I mean, if it works, it's it's it's gonna be massive. 1306 - > Right?

1307 - > It's - I got a lot of beliefs in this. 1308 - > An area you should maybe look at is, if you're excited about CRISPR Therapeutics, is is is 1309 - > phage therapy. 1310 - > That's something that's very exciting right now. 1311 - > So take a look.

1312 - > And yeah. 1313 - > But, anyways, you know, this was a great podcast episode. 1314 - > This is probably our first in-person one. 1315 - > Hopefully, we do many more.

1316 - > Thank you so much for coming on, and maybe we can do another episode in, you know, a couple 1317 - > years, see how many deals we've done in Southeast Asia and, obviously, other emerging 1318 - > markets. 1319 - > So thank you so much for coming on today. 1320 - > Thank you, Richard. 1321 - > Thank you, and good luck to Venture Passport.

1322 - > Yeah. 1323 - > To be the partner.