#22 - Alexandra Couzens - Unf*cking Work

Speaker A: Foreign. You're listening to the Unfucking Work podcast for people, professionals, leaders, business owners and anyone wanting to start their own mutiny and unfuck the workplace. A Work Pirates production with your hosts, James Eaves and Michelle Minikin. Here we are again. Michelle. It's been a while over, hasn't it?

Speaker B: Yes, we've had a hiatus.

Speaker A: A hiatus. It felt like a lot longer than a hiatus. How long is actually a hiatus? That was. I must have a hyena there, which is the wrong word.

Speaker B: How long's a hyena about to meet him?

Speaker A: So a bit of a hiatus, bit of a break. We had loads going on, haven't we? So, yeah, for an avid listener, thank you for being patient for the next podcast. Um, so what's been going on?

Speaker B: Yes, it's. It's been a long year so far, hasn't it? It's been lots of exciting things and busy, busy, busy. So I. We've been doing lots of Good Girl deprogramming, introduction to Good Girl conditioning workshops in organizations and for charities, and lots of talks and have done lots of speaking coaching. So prepare to get. I'm going to get better at speaking, it turns out.

Speaker A: Always useful. Very useful. Life skill. Yes. Um, so I guess if anyone hasn't done the quiz, they can go to goodgirlquiz.co.uk can't they? Or michelle minican.com the book's available at all good bookstores.

Speaker B: And the rubbish ones too.

Speaker A: And the rubbish ones. You know, we don't discriminate here. Um, so there's a lot going on with that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, you've been busy as well, though.

Speaker A: I was just going to say I'm really looking forward to the audiobook as well. I like listening to the. The little snippets that I get to hear and then the hilarity of, you've written such a great book and then you think, crap. How do I say this word?

Speaker B: Yes. I'm not even going to try it. So I can do omnipotence.

Speaker C: Um,

Speaker B: but the other word. Omniscience. Omniscience. Omniscience. Oh, I think you got it.

Speaker A: Is that it?

Speaker B: Omniscience.

Speaker A: Looks like omniscience.

Speaker B: Yes. Yes. So, um, yeah, there's one or two long words in the book, so there's been a lot of swearing while I've been recording.

Speaker A: So, yes, thank you to our podcast. Podcast. James. James Ead. He's rescuing the audio, isn't he? Yes. To something beautiful. What have I been doing? I've been doing my Level 7 leadership coaching and mentoring qualification with the CMI, the Chartered Management Institute. I'm at my last assignment, thank the Lord. Um, I'm getting that in very, very soon, so I can't wait to get that back because that's, that's been a step back into academia, which is, um, taking a bit of getting used to again and referencing stuff Harvard style, etc. Um, been doing loads more co, uh, coaching in general, strength coaching, more of the, the team coaching as well, which has been a lot of fun and building up a new sub brand. So obviously you've, there's a lot of push. This is a work pirates podcast and your sub brand for what you're known as is Good girl deprogramming. And the thinking is that a lot of people, they come to us as individuals. Oh, you need to talk to Michelle about this. You need to talk to James about that. So end of month, end of April 2024, there's launching a new sub brand for my coaching, which is a lead in a much simpler way for people to really understand. What the hell do you do, James?

Speaker B: What even do you do?

Speaker A: And rather than have me to say, how long have you got, M And then talk about loads of things, this is a much simpler understanding of the strengths coaching I do, who I work with and what that looks like.

Speaker B: It's exciting, but we're not going to tell them what it is yet. We're going to give them, we'll tell them the next podcast. Next podcast, yes, it should be out next month.

Speaker A: Yeah, in May.

Speaker B: We've got the next two recorded already, so yes, we'll be able to get those out next month.

Speaker A: So yes, lots to come. And that leads nicely into today's guest.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: So today's guest is Alexandra cousins. So with 15 years of management consulting experience, she's passionate about helping people to live authentically. Setting up a coaching business alongside her day job, she, she aims to unleash people's inner, uh, amazingness. Also training as a mindfulness coach, Alexandra cherishes engaging conversations, being a mom, horse riding and enjoying nature. With one life to live, her mantra is simple, let's make the most of it.

Speaker B: Great mantra. Great podcast.

Speaker A: I do like that.

Speaker B: Here we go.

Speaker A: Hope you enjoy it and we'll be with you next month.

Speaker B: Thank you ever so much for joining us today, Alex, on the Unfucking work podcast.

Speaker C: Yay. I'm quite excited, but also a little bit nervous about today. In fairness.

Speaker B: We're fine, we're nice. We won't. We promise we won't. Ask you any awkward. Well, we'll ask you some awkward questions. But yes, if you don't want to answer anything, you should tell us to piss off. It's a grand.

Speaker C: I say no comments. That's what I'm saying exactly.

Speaker B: It's like, oh, sorry, my, my publicist said no comment. So question number one, we start with, with everybody. What was it in your career that made you realize that work was fucked up?

Speaker C: You know what, Uh, I could answer this in so many different ways, but I think it's. I'm, um, not going to answer the question the way you expect me to answer it. I think it's life in general. So I think over the last couple of years I've taken a step back on. We live everything in autopilot. We go day to day, we do things, we don't really think about it. And that was fundamentally wrong for me. I was like, life is great, really interesting. But I've been doing what's been expected of me for years and years and years. And I guess that was a moment when I realized actually that I've got to consciously and intentionally do the things that are important to me rather than what's expected of me in like the corporate world, the social world and sort of the other world as well.

Speaker A: We're not living mindfully, it's mindlessly in that sense. Whether it's eating food, whether it's paying attention to what's going around us on the way to work or walking somewhere. Yeah, there's. I can see there's a lot, there's a lot of layers in there really

Speaker C: to consider and I guess to add to it, there's a phrase about we're human doings, not human beings. Um, and still the balance, and we can cover loads of detail later, but this balance between the doing and the being, um, and recognizing why we're doing the doing as well as the being, which sounds profound, but we are human beings. We are in the moment people as well.

Speaker A: I guess we're, we're brought up, aren't we, in systems that are always for, uh, for doing. Once you've done these exams, then you choose these subjects, then you do some more exams and then another two years and more exams, then maybe go to university or get a job. And then there's a trick list of do, do, do, do do.

Speaker B: Mhm. And then even in the sort of the minutia is that kind of every day we need to make food clear, food away, eat food, make food. Ye laundry cycle as well. It's like, it's painful, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah. And you just go in this end of cycle. It's a bit like Groundhog Day. I watched the film the other day, and when you watch the film the second time around, it does become like Groundhog Day. Watching the film again, um, I sit there and I go, if you're not careful, life becomes a bit mundane. You wake up, you go to work, you reply to your emails, and you get in this constant loop. Um, and I guess for me there was this bit where I went, like, there's so much more that I want to go and give. There's all this, like, little massive bundle of energy that's just locked away somewhere based on what's expected of me and, um, how I live my life day to day on autopilot. And so I guess that was the moment when I'm like, how do I unleash this, like, Alex into the world and have other people unleash it? So we're not always just going from one thing to the next in a mundane way.

Speaker B: Tell us about, um, a little bit more about your story. So how, how, how did this realization come to pass?

Speaker C: Don't know, like, how deep I want to go on this one. So there's probably lots of different things that have, like, happened throughout my life. And I guess the. Probably the one that's the trickiest one. I wasn't sure they bring it up, but I will bring it up, actually is a tragic event happened in my life about almost a year and a bit ago, actually. And I think that was the moment when I was like, actually all the things that I've been doing in my life so far probably have been on autopilot and there has been a choice along the way. And I think when I look at how life pressure, how precious life is, and how often we can just take it for granted, especially at work and obviously in our relationships. I was like, this is the moment when actually I want to go and do the thing that I want to go and do and be with the people I want to be with and be a bit more ruthless about things, but in careful ways. Um, and so I think the sort of, that passing of the individual kind of the death that happened, I think was the crux. It sounds weird for something catastrophic to happen, but that was the crux for me to go. Actually, what I do in the corporate world is good, but it's not enough for me to really feel like I've made my mark and I've, uh, done all the things That I wouldn't necessarily not regret doing.

Speaker B: Yeah. The aspect of post traumatic growth.

Speaker C: Yeah. And actually what's weird. And, uh, I guess I was really lucky that I sought the right help and support through the journey, but I was probably something else probably triggered that journey before this event happened, actually. So I was always on this journey, or probably for the last year or two before it happened, going like, what impact are we having in the world? How can we make sure that our actions aren't damaging the planet we live on? Or, um, how we'll be being healthy in a mindful way as well as a physical way, in a mental way. Um, and I dabbled becoming a vegan for a while, which I wouldn't recommend really. Honestly, being a vegetarian, fab. But I love cheese. So the whole idea of being able to not have cheese and have coconut cheese, quite frankly, I was like, I want to embrace vegetarian living and healthy living. And I felt better for it. But going totally vegan, I found really hard. Um, so there was something in there, and I'm sure in like 5 years time I'll go, oh, that was a trigger. But there was this journey that I started on, but as you said that the trauma of what happened accelerated it. And I went back and I was like, it all makes sense. Like, this is the time, this is the right time to, to maybe, um, I can say the word unleashed, but maybe think about how I do things in a slightly different way.

Speaker A: It almost feels like, um, I like the, the, the idea that something can accelerate you in. So you're on that path already. But it's a bit like a boost, a rocket boost of speeding things up. Almost like the. If. It's almost like a list of priorities is moving around like, uh, an ever evolving graph or something. And then it's like, uh, yes, this is what's now important and I'm definitely on the right path. And it's. It's obviously sad that something tragic is. We've seen this a lot, haven't we, in our own stories, in lots of podcast guest stories, that it's sometimes a, uh, major life event that has a bearing on this, but it's quite lovely that you've not had to reach an age of retirement to figure out that, uh, actually I've spent 40 years in the corporate world and then I've realized that I should have been doing something else. So I think that's. It's very empowering and inspiring as well.

Speaker C: Inspiring and empowering that I think there's another bit in there and you were talking about when you were saying about the acceleration. I, um. And one of my videos that I did recently, I talked about, uh, a journey. And we're always so focused on the destination rather than how we get there. And I use this. I'm, um, not a very good sailor, but I use the analogy of a sailing boat. And so I like to think of a boat, so whatever size boat it is, like a big boat or a tiny little boat or a canoe. And when we're going on our journeys, you kind of adjust to what's around you and you maybe stop for a bit and you enjoy it. And. And so when I think about my career, maybe in the past, I think I like a speedboat. Like, right, I want to get there. All costs. I want to get there, I want to do that because that's what's expected of me and have, um, I enjoyed it. It's got me to where I've got to, but probably not taking everything else around me. So I like to think about the sailing boat because the sailing boat, I say it's Tekken drives, might be the right. Anyway, the sale moves and um, you go between different places and you know, you're heading over there, but you're enjoying the journey and you've probably got people with you. You're probably having the odd moment you can sunbathe and it's just nice. And I guess that's part of me thinking about the. The journey of where I'm going and uh, and the corporate world and sort of like the freelance world to be able to enjoy it as well as be focused on like the end result as well.

Speaker B: So tell us a little bit more about what you're doing about all of this now.

Speaker C: So this is the bit that I'm like, a little bit, I think, ah, uh, uncertain. And I'm sure everyone who has launched into their own thing feels like this, but what am I doing about it? So I think because I work with lots of different people, I've always had this lovely bit of helping people and supporting people and mentoring them and. And uh, I've enjoyed that. And there was a bit of me that went like, is that really enough? Is there a group of people who either are on a journey of what do I do in life? Like, how do I have a fulfilling career? What are my strengths and how do I do them? And I had like this brainwave of like, maybe I can help, maybe I can be that person who has that chat, that conversation to go and work with people and just support them, like I've been sort of supported through other people, uh, in my career so far. Um, and it's not necessarily tied to the corporate world. It's just understanding, if you understand what we want to do and what makes us tick and what we're good at and kind of letting that go, then how we apply our passions and all our differences helps. Um, so I've probably for the last six months, year been thinking about what does that look like? And I'm like close, close, close to hitting the launch and let's go button. Um, so in a nutshell, I guess it means there'll be a company which is run by me, which is very exciting but also really scary. Um, um, and it offers coaching, um, and also different coaching, um, coaching about you and your growth, coaching about, um, you and how you want to grow at work. Coaching, uh, around sort of more about life decisions, like those conversations that help you unlock where you want to go, um, in a fun, engaging and a different way. So something around those, those, those kind of elements, but in a flexible, non, sort of rigid way.

Speaker A: Yeah, we all need coaches, really. I mean, it's what I think is, is so important. So if you think back to what we've just talked about almost aimlessly, mindlessly sailing without a direction or any kind of rudder and just letting the wind and the current take us somewhere towards retirement, um, there is something, again, it's having that wisdom and insight and actual interest and energy to want to help others with that as you're further along the pathway to that destination. I think is. It's so helpful when so many people we just. What am I trying to get at? It's almost like so many people. I mean, you see lots of Gallup research. How many people are unhappy at work, how many people not engaged, the levels of poor mental health, etc. Etc. And to have others such as yourself, Alex, to be able to say, I've been through that, yes, I can actually help you with that. And let's unpeel and wipe away all the layers of conditioning and then figure out what it means for you. I think is it's so powerful. It really is. Is there anyone you're particularly drawn to as, uh, a coach, or are you still exploring that?

Speaker C: I'm still exploring. I'm a bit of. I like to draw kind of insight and inspiration from lots of different people. And what I found really interesting about the last year is the people I speak to. I've sort of somehow gone out of my comfort bubble of the normal people. Not that I Knew I was normal, but people in traditional roles. And I've come across people who are poets or people who focus on, um, love and kindness, or people who run retreats or people. And even sort of, um, meeting Michelle about six months a year ago, like, coming across you, like, the more you get curious, the more you take inspiration from different people. Um, and I guess I've never been heavily reliant on one person because I think you can draw loads of things from different people when I think. I mean, I went to boarding school when I was younger, so there's a degree of, like, I probably had to uncondition myself to be like, I can't do this by myself. Um, so I do have a lovely lady who I'm working with is sort of like a business coach to say, like, help me through the questions and the practicalities and like, you've got this, it's fine. And I'm sure along the way, having to sort of not having to, wanting to have that two or three people who are my, like, tribe and my crew of feeling supported in what I'm doing will be really important. Um, and I guess, well, I know in my corporate job at the moment, which will continue because I'm happy to have the balance and to see where I can shape and do good in that environment as well as elsewhere. There are people who I call my work best friends, who are the ones where you can go, I'm having this day of like, ah, they're like, he's fine, you've got it. And, um. And I think everyone needs that person that when you're having that moment of like, oh, awesome is too difficult. Just go hold the mirror up. You're doing a fab job, you're doing really, really well, and just keep on being you. Um, and there was something I was going to say and it might not fit in, so you can move it later, but there's something in there for me about probably suppressing who I've been for quite a long time and trying to fit in. And, and, and whenever people go on training courses with me, they always go like, you've always got so many points to make. And I sit there and I go, that's probably like a third of what I want to say. But there's a whole room of people around me who want to contribute as well. Um, and so I'm kind of on this journey still to work at. How do I use my energy in a way that isn't like the overbearing spaniel, but it isn't the very sleepy old English sheepdog that's going to sleep by the fire for all of its life. And it's that balance of the people I'm with and, and I guess that's everyone's balance about how, how much of your true self can you bring to what you want to do and how much of it do you have to mask or do you feel like you need to mask? And uh, what are we missing out on from people? Um, and when I joined a firm, a different firm a while ago, um, I had my interview and I got the job. But they said to me afterwards, dear, my goodness me, you spoke so much. We really had like no idea, like, where are you going to go next? It was good. It made me feel a bit upset, the fact that they've been so brutally honest and said, well, you know, you just chatted away. Um, and so I've always been very self conscious of the things that I want to share, the energy I've got and just making sure that's like tempered for the people that I'm working with or chatting with.

Speaker B: Yes, I do have had that feedback and it's, it's kind of, it's really brutal, isn't it? It's like, what do you want, you know, do you want to sit there and be quiet? You know, you're asking me questions. You need to know all the context. Uh-huh. I'm a big fan of context. And it's, you know, the whole kind of situation, task action, results, way of answering interview questions is all the situation is all about the context. You need the background data before you understand what the problem is and before you understand how to solve it. So. Ugh, interviews suck.

Speaker C: I always want for the backstory, like if I want to tell a story about someone, I'll go, oh. And then I'll eventually get to the point.

Speaker B: But yeah, the backstory and then the, the side quests as well. Always very interesting. Bless you. So you're, you're going to be managing a sort of a dual role. So your day job, as it were, and then your, than your business and how, how do you envision that happening? Kind of your business sort of ramps up and you quit your day job, or you just gonna try in tandem and, or, or see what happens.

Speaker C: I've gone through so many different ways of looking at this. Um, and I've tried, I think all of my life I've been quite logical and quite structured and now I think, well, what is, what's my intuition saying? What, like, and there's obviously gonna be some logic in there somewhere, but. But I don't know yet. I'm going to just sort of see what happens, see what the world needs from me and then make a decision that way. Well, all I don't want to do is just end up working like how many hundreds of hours a week and making sure the very thing that I'm doing to give myself that like bit of escape and a bit of like going to do some different things doesn't become the thing that I don't have time to sit and watch the odd thing on TV or to do the things I enjoy. Um, but there's a part of me that still thinks that having a place in the corporate world is still nice because there's so many conversations with people who I've met and have really valued the contribution I've had. Um, ah, deep down there's still a little bit in there that I like some of the geekery of some of the things I do and some of the conversations I have which are deeply technical. But I can smile and go, I know a little bit more about that than I did two years ago. So that's really good. Um, but I think it's about the balance really. Um, and perhaps that's going back to sort of what I'm trying to do, my kind of evening stint. It's about the balance of what does the balance look like for different people. Um, and there were two quotes that I think for me, I think one's by Mary Oliver, so if it's not by her then you can fact check me afterwards. And it's about what you plan to do with this one beautiful life. Mhm. Which I really like. And when I look at that one that's about the world is there's so many things around us. It goes back to the sort of mindfulness bit, but also this bit with intention. So how do we not waste the moments that we have in our life which I find really interesting. So that's kind of like at uh, the core of my, one of my attitudes. But there's also then this other one about what is life. We don't have time to stand and stare. And I almost. And I was thinking about the two and I was like are they saying the same thing but. Or are they actually two different ways of balancing the urgency and that kind of pushing through with life and doing what you want to do, but also sitting and being in the moment and the beauty of being in the moment as well. What does that look like? And is that What a human being, a human doing is about.

Speaker A: It feels very much like you're embracing your philosophy of, um, rather than sprinting towards a destination of I'm just gonna do one or I'm either not gonna try and I'll never know if the coaching would have been something of interest to success, but I'm not also going to just say resign, jump into it with both feet. There's a, There's a very nice natural flow about Atif, so let's just see what happens. And. And I really love those quotes together. It's. I'm gonna, I'm gonna be thinking it's. You are the next couple of days at least about how to combine those. It's almost. You don't go the other way of leaning back and being so laid back that life passes you by and you miss opportunities, but not being head down and missing all the wonderful things that life has to offer as well. So I think that's. That's beautiful.

Speaker B: It sounds like for me that you're looking for the place that will need and respond to your super excited spaniel energy.

Speaker C: I think so. Or it could be the place that just has a different energy but takes on some of the. Yeah, it's. It's the balance. And, And I know I'm talking to people who are trained in, um, psychology. Well, at least one of you is. So there we go.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: But I'm always really interested. And so I'm trained in insights. I'm Insights Discovery practitioner, which talks about different color energies. And when I look at. I mean, I lead with a lot of yellow energy, so very energetic and can often be quite frantic. And when I engage with people sort of on the opposite, so they're kind of leading with kind of deep blue. I mean, I say deep blue sea. Sometimes people are very in the weeds, very detailed and very held back. Often the more sometimes when I tailor my approach and perhaps I come a bit more laid back and sometimes a bit more, um, structured in my approach. It works quite well. And it's this continuum of actually the happy spaniel turns into a bit more of a happy Labrador. And it's the kind of this. I'm not reinventing myself, I'm not changing myself, but I'm sort of tweaking based on who I'm with and sort of situation. And it also becomes quite exhausting to always be the, um, on person. So the, the other side. And I guess it's the kind of ying and yang and the kind of the other side is recognizing there is this other side, sort of other bit of the spectrum of me that does want a bit of order and structure as much as you have the chaos and excitement. Yes. But then when you have people who actually who just want to get things done, that frustrates me. So I think it's just understanding in the world, uh, and whoever I draw in as clients will be fascinating because I don't think you can be something for everyone. So I'm unashamedly. I was like, say if I'm too much for people, then actually that's good because they can go and find that right relationship and that right coach to go and work with. Or if there's something they need for me that I can't deliver, then I'll be honest and say, actually, I don't know much about this, but someone else can. And I was talking to, um, a business coach and she said, look, there's plenty of work for everyone, so arguably never see anyone else as a competitor because they're there. People you can work with, you can learn with them, and you can direct work their way. M and there was something I was reading yesterday and it made me think about the whole competitive landscape. M and it said the competitors, probably the alternative, what people would do instead. And I was like, okay, so. And I haven't thought necessarily about what the opposite is, but it's thinking about what is the other thing that someone would do instead of choosing what you're doing. So rather than a favor of the service, it's the, uh, the inaction or it's the other way of solving that need. Kind of helped me reframe my worriness about, well, coaching. There's loads of coaches around. There's those coaches around because everyone's very different. Everyone has their own thing to bring. And it's about conversations and people and helping people who are all quite different.

Speaker B: Yeah. Referred m people to other coaches, haven't we, that don't.

Speaker A: You don't quite connect or it's. I think that's a really important part is it's choosing a coach. It's not just you need a coach, therefore I'll just Google coaches and then pick whoever. Uh, there's so much to it. It's, it's, it's background experience, it's what kind of work you've had, life experiences, personality and energy. Like you say, it's, um, we all want something different. And even if you had someone, because I first thought this when I got into coaching. Well, there are other strengths, coaches, so what's the point? It's, there's loads of them and then it's. But it's actually what you as an individual bring that makes all that difference. So even if you've done the exact same schooling, the same training, the same qualifications, it's still very different. And I think that's, yeah, um, probably something for education wise, isn't it, for awareness in the marketplace. I think that's, it's a wonderful way of looking at it, that it's not coming from a place of fear and competition. There's tons of work and we just have to find those people that we connect with. M. Um, so what would you say a third question, really? What tip might you have that somebody could. Our listeners. What could they do right now to start making some kind of change based on what we've discussed?

Speaker C: There's so many. But if I answer your question correctly, I think there's a really obvious one. You've got to look within yourself. Um, and even if you sit down with a cup of tea or coffee and a piece of paper and say 10, 15 minutes and even set a timer if you're short of time and go, what are the three things I enjoy doing? What are the three things I really hate doing? And what's the one thing today or yesterday that made me really happy? And why? And whether you make that a regular habit where it's just one thing you do on one off to give yourself the time to work out what you like doing and what you don't like doing. And getting to know yourself is probably the key to, uh, what you want to do next. So that's my one hint. And, and everyone goes, I've got time. But if you invest that, it then means your next move or your next decision you make is based on what is true to you rather than the, the grass is greener or my friend said this is a good idea. And I think that's probably my number one tip I'd give to anyone.

Speaker B: It's really funny you said say that. I, um, I met with a potential coaching client just this week and she's like, come on then, tell me what you do. I can tell you what I do, but what do you actually want? And I don't think she'd done that work in terms of figuring out what it is that she actually wanted from a coach. So she was allowed, she was allowed a coach. Um, but that there's so many coaches almost overwhelmed her, uh, into thinking, you know, how do I, how do I even choose one? But it's almost like well, what do you want to coach for? So start, start with you, your wants and your needs and then look at your preferences in terms of what kind of coach, what's your. It's like, yeah, so coaches have specialisms, don't they?

Speaker C: And I also think there's a bit in there about some people. It's a bit like, I mean, we know therapy and coaching is different, but some people maybe approach it from the same way of, well, something's not going very well or I'm a broken, I've been told I must sort this out. So then they go and seek a coach or they seek a mentor and mentoring. Coaching is, as we all know, very different things, but people interchangeably use them. But if you can unlock it and say, actually a coach isn't about that isn't because you're broken. It is about there is maybe a next step. You're not sure how to get that or whether you do know and you want to chat about it. And um, if we could maybe break some of the stigma which goes, coaching is a good thing. And I mean lots of people do think it's a good thing, but it is almost like some people are told, go find a coach to help you solve this problem.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: But actually it might not be a problem, it might be a golden opportunity that you don't know how to get to or there's something else that you want someone's input into.

Speaker B: It's interesting as well. Some of the side effects of coaching is that, um, you know, you've got somebody from HR giving you courtesy. This person's a bit broken, they need some help here, you know, do some coaching. And one of the side effects could be, well, let's, let's actually figure out why you're not thriving in this organization. Let's help you leave. So, you know, there's the, there's also like a bit of a danger.

Speaker C: I mean, the one thing that I've always done when I've coached people and again, I've mentored them as well as I've tried to take off my corporate hat and said in these conversations we are individuals and actually at the end of the day, whatever we talk about is about what's the best for you. And I never turned around and said, you must leave the company. But there's all these different ways of looking at rather than saying actually what is the next step or what's expected of you. Um, and so I think the more progressive coaches are the ones who actually look at the round rather than necessarily Necessarily the kind of the company or the work construct. Because in that case, actually mentoring is what you need, which is where's the gap you need to fill to do your job? Not the bigger picture of how do we help you get to sort of the next place that's important for you.

Speaker B: I love that quote, and I'm going to get it completely wrong.

Speaker C: I always do.

Speaker B: It's, um, when the, when the flower doesn't, uh, when the flower fails to bloom, look at the environment the flower's in, not necessarily the flower. We've got that with house plants. You know, one house plant was really struggling in one part of the house. He moved to another part of the house. And it's happy as Larry. So it's. It's absolutely. That, isn't it?

Speaker C: There was a piece that, uh, I tried to write a piece around this actually about sounds like house plants and actually linking it to you. Um, because houseplants sit in, as you well know, sit in a kind of in a pot and they only have the same soil. They don't have kind of an external environment. And so houseplants are either happy in that little environment or you need to expand it and do expand it by just putting them in a bigger pot, but too soon. And what do you need to give to them or do you continue water them every single week, or do you neglect them? Um, and I think they recommend like every two years you should repot a houseplant. And I repotted mine, um, and I didn't water them very often, and they're just about okay. But it's something. It's different to, I suppose, when you think about a garden and you've got. You pay more attention to what's there because you've got the kind of the worms and you've got all the grubs, but houseplant is in a very isolated place. So I guess there's a bit about when you look at the network of people around you, if you are in an isolated place, there's a limit to what you can do by yourself to help yourself grow. Um, There we go. There's the analogy. Wow, that's good. Yeah. Got there in the end. But yeah. So unless you. You do something different and you repot yourself into a bigger plot or think about what nutrients you need or where you position yourself. Being in a garden surround and sharing resources with kind of other plants and nutrients and, um, the sun and the water and things, it's harder to grow, I suppose, being a houseplant.

Speaker B: Awesome.

Speaker C: Me too.

Speaker B: Excellent. Well, thank you ever so much for coming on the podcast. It's been a really interesting conversation. Can't wait to share this with all the listeners.

Speaker C: Thank you for having me.

Speaker A: Thanks for climbing aboard for this episode. You can find further information in the show notes. If you want to hire or become a work pirate, get started@workpirates.com.