Lessons from an Intentional Transit CEO Succession

We're here in Dover, Delaware for today's Transit Unplugged podcast. I'm Paul Comfort, and as you know, we're moving now to video podcasts, and so I'm excited to be here, uh, in person to do the first one kind of on location for the podcast. We're gonna be interviewing John Sisson, who is the CEO of the agency. He's been here for a while.

We're also gonna be talking to Lilia Montoya, who is the incoming CEO. They've done a one-month overlap of their, uh, positions, which is great. You hardly ever get that anymore. We're gonna d- go around the state some with them.

We're filming a Transit Unplugged TV show while we're here. We're excited to bring you a great in-depth interview with my friend and CEO John Sisson. All right. Well, Paul, welcome to Delaware Transit Corporation, the operator of DART First States, our Dover Administration and Maintenance and Operations building.

Um, I understand you've been, uh, checking out the state so far a little bit. Yeah, it's been great, John. Thanks for hosting us. You got a great staff.

They've done an amazing work. Um, so tell us something about the agency itself, 'cause you're very unique. Yeah. I mean, you're a statewide agency.

So yeah, so the Delaware Transit Corporation was formed, um, in 1995 to run statewide public transit for the entire state of Delaware. While we're a small state, we're a little bit diverse state. So up in, you know, New Castle County, um, we have the city of Wilmington, which, you know, is a key, uh, city, actually in the country because it's where a lot of comp- companies are incorporated in Delaware. Yeah.

And they do a lot of, uh, business there. But we're almost a little bit of a suburb of Philadelphia. We have our SEPTA services that come in, t- rail services that come in and help us connect, you know, the, the metropolitan area, Philadelphia and Wilmington and South Jersey. as you come down the state, we're here in Dover, the capital of the first state, right?

So we're about to celebrate the country's 250th anniversary. Um, we're proud to be the first state in the nation, um, in ratifying that. So we were the first to sign the Constitution in 1787, so a little bit after the Declaration of In- Independence. our state government's run out of here.

We have Dover Air Force Base, which is a, a, a major Air Force base in the, in, in the country. Um, it's probably known best for, fallen soldiers, um, and military come here and, uh, you know, the, the dig- dignified transfer there. you know, the president has al- u- unfortunately sit here too many times to, to do that activity. it's a suburban area in Dover here, and then we go down to Sussex County.

A lot of farmland, but we have, um, some of the country's greatest beaches and resort town. Yes, you do. And, um, we have a lot of people, uh, retiring, and then from the Mid-Atlantic coming to this area. Delaware, um, is a great place to live.

No sales tax. No sales tax, low property tax, um, and then the beach community is just wonderful. We have, uh, beaches along the Atlantic Ocean, up the Dele River, and we have bays and lots of activities. lots of great restaurants and, um, things to do down there.

So in the summertime, we started a couple b- weeks ago with our beach bus service, which we ramp up to just get people down to the boardwalks in the resort community. There's a ferry that comes across from Ca- Cape May that connects us to South Jersey. Um, we connect to Ocean City, Maryland. So overall in our system, w- you know, we're, we're a fixed route system obviously, so we provide local fixed route in each of the areas.

We connect that with intercounty bus service. we have, I mentioned we have the SEPTA commuter rail service coming in to New Castle County. Um, we have a couple of microtransit routes that, and we're gonna continue to expand them. What we're known most for in the industry is we do statewide paratransit door to door.

Uh, we were the first in the nation to do that about 52 years ago. Wow. Um, and so we continue to do that. It is a big part of our service.

It's actually bigger than our fixed route service and the number of operators and buses that we do. Wow. But it is a, it's, it's so critical to the community that we serve, um, who might not be able to get around, get to medical appointments, get to daycare type services, adult daycare, whatever those type of services. Or even just, you know, go to church, go to a restaurant, go to shopping, do whatever you do.

Um, we provide that, um, statewide door to door. So John, you and I have known each other a while. We're kinda neighbors, neighboring states here. Yeah.

Uh, you've been CEO for over a decade here. Tell us about kinda a little of your career, your legacy, because I, I heard a rumor you might be retiring. I might be. Yeah, so the, the rumors are true.

Okay. Um, I am retiring, um, beginning of July. Um, so I started my career right out of college in, in 1993. Actually, I did a summer internship before that.

Wow. And so it was originally the part of the, the Railroad Administration, and then when Delaware Transit Corporation was formed in 1995, we, we brought all the transit agencies under one roof. So I, I worked through contract bus operations, I worked through facilities, capital projects, all those types of things. I got into performance management, um, looking at how the agency operated, and about 12 years ago I became CEO.

Um, you know, transit i- it's… I never thought about this coming out of college or what my career would be. I, I was a mechanical engineer in school. Oh, yeah. I did some civil engineering work, too.

Um, somehow it gets in your blood, right? And once you get involved in it, um, you live it every day. And, you know, as, as I grew in my career, the responsibilities change, obviously, the roles change. You know, you grow from doing the, being the taskmaster to, you know, actually making sure, creating a vision for what the c- or corporation needs to do, where do we need to go in the future.

You know, we've gone through a lot of things. Uh, you know, economic crisis in '08, uh, COVID. You know, COVID really changed our business as we all know. Um, but it, it's been a long haul.

Um, it's been great, but it's time for something new. This is a 24/7 job, right? You know that. You did it.

Um, it, it can be a little bit, um, much on you. But I also think, you know, 12 years as a CEO in one lo- in one organization straight is a long time. Yeah. I, you know, um, I think there's opportunity for new vision, new leadership.

Um, and I'm excited about, um, Lilia Montoya, who's, who's here now. She's gonna be shadowing me for the next month or so. she's asking me great questions, talking about her experience and things she's done, and, you know, like, "Oh, yeah, we, we, we might be able to do something different here," right? And do something different.

So she's gonna do an amazing job. Um, we have amazing team here, We have something interesting kind of on the northeast United States. There's a bunch of state agencies like New Jersey Transit- Mm … CT Transit, Delaware, Maryland, that are state agencies. Yes.

How does that work? So it, it's really cool. Um, so as, as a CEO of Delaware Transit Corporation, I report directly to the Secretary of Transportation, Shante Hastings, and I sit at the table with the DelDOT leadership team, and we truly try to integrate into a multimodal transportation network. it creates partnerships, um, whether it's through snow removal, and the department's making sure they prioritize bus routes to get cleared- Okay … and do those types of things.

I, just this morning, I sat on a, a value engineering committee for a roadway expansion project to make sure that pedestrian transit multimodal aspects of highway projects are being really considered and, and thought into, into what we do. And so we're not on an island by ourselves. I've formed great relationships over the years to make sure that, we just, you know … Back when I started my career, I might've got a little frustrated and called them the highway department- Yeah.

… 'cause all they thought about was cars and trucks, but it's not that way anymore, and especially in Delaware with the leadership from Shante, we make sure that every ride is critical. Safety is paramount in what we do. Um, so, you know, my safety issues, um, are integrated into the highway road safety issues and all the other things that happen. a transit rider is always a pedestrian as well, as we all know that, so how they get to our system matters.

we used to call it non-motorized transportation, but these e-bikes, these e-scooters and everything else are so critical to the integration of what we do. So they're getting to my system on these little motorized vehicles, and how do we make sure that they do that safely and so everyone gets home alive? Oh, yeah. That's great.

Well, this has been great, John. I know we're gonna hang out some today. Yeah. You're gonna show me around some other sites, and I'm excited to talk to your incoming CEO.

Why don't we go out and talk to her outside? Sounds like a great idea. All right. Thanks, brother.

Thanks, Paul. Well, Lilia, excited to have you here on the show with us. This is like your first week, right? Uh, my third day.

Third day. Third day. Wow. What'd you do the first day?

John just told me a wild story about what you all did with like, as with the DOT kind of, um, experience with all the leaders. Yeah, with the, yes, the DelDot leaders, and, uh, it was with our secretary, and it was wonderful. We climbed, what, the Inlet River 350 feet, about 25 floors, so you can imagine. Like on a ladder, you climbed up the bridge?

Yes. What was that about? It was, it, uh, literally- Team building? It, it, well, it was definitely, but you know, a quick way to build trust, collaboration- Yeah and definitely courage.

And show you, and show you one of the state's assets, right? Yes. That's a big state asset. And I mean, but- Yeah … once, once you hit the top, it was breathtaking- I betcha … and it was just refreshing.

I've driven over. That's a fantastic bridge. And you know what? It, uh, it highlights what John and I were just talking about, is the intermodal nature of a state agency, where you're working hand in glove with state highway and with all the other administrations.

Mm-hmm. Have you ever had that in your past experience? Which, what's been your past experience? I, actually it's been an amazing experience.

Yeah? I, believe it or not, I, I, my, I started my transportation career in heavy rail. Oh, nice. Yes.

And so I spent eight and a half years with a class one railroad for eight and a half years, and then I transitioned over to pu- the public sector. So therefore I've had a little bit of experience, or maybe a lot of experience over two decades, in heavy rail, public transit, and school bus. School bus. Yes.

That's something. Mm-hmm. And what attracted you here to Delaware, to the East Coast from out in California? You know, it was amazing.

Uh, it was just a matter of opportunity, and honestly, when I came out for my interview, it was just driving into the state- perfectly clean, not one, one bit of trash on the highway, and it's green. It's green. It's green. Yeah.

But also, the people are lovely. Yeah, yeah. Always. As the employees here.

And have you ever had a Dartley? Come on over, Dartley. I love Dartley. All right, high five, buddy.

Yeah, so this is a great, I think, fun way to introduce transit. You talked about school kids, made me think about it. Mm-hmm. Introduce them to the concept of getting on transit, having fun.

Yes, I think that's a, it's a great concept also, you know, to teach children about the value in public transit. Yeah, yeah. So what are you excited for? Coming up, uh, you're just getting, uh, on the ground here in Delaware.

You've moved out, I guess? I am five days in the, in the state. Lock, stock, and barrel, you're here, huh? I'm here, and, and I'm happy to be here.

Yeah, it's exciting. So this is an exciting time, right? Have you ever been a CEO before, and what are you excited about? This is my first run as a CEO.

I have been a deputy CEO. I've been chief operating officer as well. Oh, look at that. Mm-hmm.

But I've, I've grown in my career. Uh, and, uh, it's been valuable, valuable experience, a lot of learning. And, uh, but I'm really excited about living in Delaware, learning about Delaware, and there's definitely different changes as far as legislature from the West Coast to the East Coast. Yeah.

And but the most exciting part is really learning the system here, and I'm really excited about the c- collaboration with DelDOT and how we work together. I mean, it's been a very warm welcome, and I just, I really love, uh, the feel that the employees and everyone has, the way they, everyone has embraced me. So- That's great … it's been very nice. Something that's really great, I think, I would have loved to have had this when I was a CEO, is you've got a month to overlap with John.

So he's kind of showing you the ropes and introducing you to everybody. How is that, having a month where you can kinda come in and, uh, work alongside the CEO as he begins to retire? You know, it's, it's an interesting question. Uh, I think that agencies normally try to h- build a succession plan and to have this, this is really, uh, a, an honor to be able to work with John and to have that seamless transition and to be able to see and learn about projects that are ongoing and also, you know, things that are pressing at this time and then, you know, our pinch points and also our successes.

And so I wanna be able to lead and to follow through with that, so therefore we don't have that gap. So in my 22 years in the transportation industry, this is the first time I've had this valuable experience. And so therefore, I hope to be able to continue to advocate for, uh, to have something like this for the future. Yeah, yeah.

Mm-hmm. Kudos to the state for- Yes … having the foresight to do this. Uh, it's really a model, I think, for the industry, so. It really is.

How about we head out to lunch, and we all go down to the beach? Yeah, let's do it. All right, thanks. Thanks for listening to the Transit Unplugged Podcast.

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Now back to Paul Comfort for this edition of the award-winning Transit Unplugged Podcast John, uh, we're continuing the podcast with you now, so, uh, and Lilia too. We- we're, uh, tell us where we're at and what we're doing. So we're, we're at the Lewis Transit Center on one of our, uh, battery electric buses. Okay.

And we're gonna, we're gonna take the, the bus lane down to the Rehoboth Boardwalk. All right. Traditionally it's the Route 201 here in, in, on our beach bus services that runs frequently to get people out of the congestion to the boardwalk. Um, avoid the $4 an hour parking.

Avoid looking for parking. It's fast, easy, and convenient. That's great, man. Um, so let's talk about your service as a whole.

We talked a little bit about it at your, at your operation though, but I want to expand a little bit about this, like, three parts of the state. You got it. You've got three counties, and you really run kinda different type of services in each area. Tell me about that.

Right. So, so Wilmington is, is an urbanized area. Yeah. From, from a transit FTA standpoint, we're in an urbanized area, right?

So you have a city, you have a, you know, central business district, and you're running your traditional fixed route services. You know, bringing people into work, to shopping, all those different things. But it, it's your traditional service area. Um, as you go down the state, in the s- the center of the state, we have a state capital, um, Dover.

Um, and it's more of a suburban, m- more than rural, but suburban- Yeah … type service. So we run a pulse system kind of in and out- Okay of, of, of the, of the, of the city, and, and, and still connect people where they go. And then when you come down here in the lower part of the state, Sussex County, you got two aspects of it. So we have a real rural area, farmlands, but there's still communities, and then we have a resort vacation destination at the beach.

Yeah. So in the summer, you know, we have service year-round down here, but the summer we go to a seven-day operation that's probably 22 hours a day in service. Yeah. So we get people late at night getting off work or- Yeah … leaving entertainment, um, that can get around.

Um, you have a lot of students, foreign students that come in here to work and- Oh, right come here without cars, and transportation's key for them. So it's big resort. You got Dewey Beach, Bethany Beach, Lewes, and Rehoboth, right? Rehoboth.

And we also connect with Ocean City, Maryland, and connect- Oh … with their transit system. Ah. So when I was at MTA Baltimore, we used to loan Ocean City a dozen of our, you know, articulated buses every summer- Right. Yeah … because they had so much extra traffic than I bet you.

How do you all handle all the extra flux here? So w- we do it again. So the summer we ramp up service, more frequency. We have special events like Rehoboth fireworks.

Oh, yeah. Um, we'll bring service, extra buses down from Wilmington to help with the crush loads, um, and manage it that way. And then with all of those three counties, we connect them with our inner county buses. Okay.

So we're, we, you know, you can get from Lewes to Dover and, and then transfer a bus from Dover to Wilmington, and then on the weekends in the summer we run a bus from Wilmington to Dover to the beach area. So get people down here to the beach and make sure we're connecting Newark to Dover in different ways. Yeah. So we really do cover the state, um- That's amazing … and any transportation needs.

Now funding-wise, do you all get any funding from the counties, or are you all state money, or how does all that work? So we're all state transportation. You know, the federal dollars that come in. Right.

The rest of it comes through DelDOT. We're, we're a division of DelDOT and their Transportation Trust Fund. Okay. And- Which is gas tax.

Gas tax, motor vehicles, tolls, um- Corporate, some corporate tax like Maryland? No corporate tax. No corporate tax. Okay.

So there's just things- You know, and it does a pretty good job. They're always looking to make sure that it's keeping up with the times- Yeah and inflation. But you guys aren't coming up to a fiscal cliff or anything? No, you, you always, you know, this- Right … you know, post-COVID there's always fiscal pressure, right?

You gotta be efficient and you gotta be smart with what you're doing. Yeah. Um, you know, we're adjusting routes based on changes in demand by COVID. Right.

But we're not out for referendums. We're not out for those types of things. Right. You're not looking for a property tax?

Tax, no. Okay. Yeah, that's interesting. Lilia, let me ask you a question.

you were at Long Beach, right? I was. Which was kind of like a resort. How is that different?

Would, what was your job there, and, and how was that different than what we, what you're doing here, do you think? Um- Or same? Well, it's, it's a little bit different. Okay.

I mean, here because as, as, you know, John has stated, you know, this is state run, and, you know, it's- Oh, right. Yeah, and you were like a local operation. Yes. Yeah.

And so we, our, our operation there, I was a deputy CEO there, and, uh, we also had, you know, boats. Oh, okay. So the service was, yes. That- Yeah … that, that we, we had contracted out, and, but that was just local, just around the bay.

Yes, gotcha. Yes. But it's a resort town, so did you have to ramp up and down through the seasons? Or California's always nice, right?

Well, I mean, it, it, it does- It never rains in California. It, it, it doesn't maybe viewed as a resort town, but it's, you know, it's, it's a busy city. Okay. You know, the ridership had increased also with the student ridership had, it just, it, it made it like it was, went up like 1,000%- Wow with that, that initiative.

And you know, we also had the shuttle service over to UCLA. Okay. You know, to support the university. So I mean, it's just, I think it's all in, in the mindset- Yeah … and being innovative and introducing n- new programs.

Hey, as long as, you know, we have the support and the funding- Yeah we can do a lot. So you were deputy CEO. Wasn't Deborah from Denver? Didn't she used to work there too, at Long Beach?

Yes. Yes, she absolutely did. Yeah. And then who's your CEO there?

Uh, currently? Yeah. Uh, it's still Ken McDonald. Yeah, yeah, CEO of the year for APTA.

So, uh- Yes … for those of you who are listening, hopefully we'll get him on the podcast later this summer. That's good. Man, d- that's a great system there. You're pumping out leaders.

Yeah, I, I hope that. So you'll have to, you'll have to thank him. Yeah. Yeah, I will, I will.

That's great. So John, I noticed in the front of Dartley you got some numbers down there. What are they? All right.

So when we, when we created Dartley, we wanted to make sure that really re- reflective of the organization. So- black, back, block- Yeah, stop announcement. Yeah, yeah. So we have, uh, the three, those three u- numbers represent our three, uh, labor unions- Oh, okay that work at DART: drivers, mechanics, service supervisors, info center.

Those represent the three unions. A- and then on the back, there's the number 1787, which is the year Delaware ratified the Constitution. Oh, yeah. We went to the, uh, the courthouse in Newcastle- Oh, yeah … where, where they were voting and all that jazz.

Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then the, uh, the route number's 95 for 1995 when Delaware Transit Corporation was created. Oh, okay.

That's cool, man. That's- What's this deal up here, John? So that's our infotain- infotainment system. Um, we installed it a few years ago, and it's, it's really a tool to help us communicate with our customers.

You know as a former transit CEO how to connect with your customers is challenging. And so this does a lot of different things. Traditionally, buses have audio announcements, right? Yeah.

A- and whatever. Well, this brings visual to it as well. So if someone has a hearing impairment, they'll see the things that the buses say. It also allows us to, you know, put alerts out about public hearings or things very specific to a route.

You can s- you could put a route detour for a very specific route up there. Oh, yeah. We talk about some of the goodwill stuff we do. Um, it's a, it could be a revenue source selling advertisement.

Okay. So it's, it's really multifunctional. We can do things in English and Spanish. We can do multiple ways of doing things if we know the community and the needs.

So it's just, you know, I remember starting my career, we used to run around and post up, you know, "Hey," you know, "Bus stop closures"- Yeah, yeah public hearing notices, and all those things were, were l- really labor-intensive. Yeah. So this, this really helps bridge that gap and, and, and do a lot of stuff. So right now there's a thing up there about our, our customer survey that we just launched, um, on Monday.

Okay. So there's a QR code. You can click the QR code and take our customer satisfaction survey. Oh, right here on the bus.

Yeah. Oh, that's awesome, dude. Yeah. So instead of having pieces of paper out there, and then we can change things out at an instant.

Yeah. So it's really, really neat. And you have this on all your buses? All our bu- all our fixed route buses.

Yeah, that's awesome. Yes. And, uh, who controls the messaging? So our marketing team- Okay … um, in the back office Oh, I know somebody there.

I think her name's Lerrissa. Yeah. Yeah, in our team. They do amazing job.

So they, they program what's going on. We have a contractor that helps us sell advertising, whether it's a bus wrap or internal ads. Oh, that's good. So they've done some with the lottery and some other areas to, to do some ads that way, and we, we expect that to continue to grow.

Um, you can, you know, you can show the route tree and what your next stop's coming up, all those different things. So it's really convenient. Yeah. That's awesome, man.

- We've had a great time in Delaware here, uh, filming with John Sisson, the CEO, the outgoing CEO of Delaware Transit Corporation's DART First State service. Um, they are, you know, a state organization, but they operate transit system in multiple parts of the state. When I was at the MTA, you remember, I, I was a general manager of the city of Baltimore and gave money to all the 23 jurisdictions to run their own transit systems. That's not how it is here in Delaware.

They may be the only state, or one of only two or three, that do it this way. It was great to also be here at the perfect time when Lilia Montoya was here. She's the incoming CEO coming from California. She's got a month overlap with John so she can learn the ropes and what all the new projects are, current projects are, and then take it on from there.

John's been a good friend of mine for years, uh, being neighbors. I live only, you know, 45 minutes from here. Uh, and this transit system's fantastic. Um, not only is it a statewide system where they have, you know, the big buses and heavy rail that they, uh, pay money to SEPTA to come down to Wilmington and operate that service in Newark, but also, uh, they've got a whole system in the center of the state, right?

In, in Dover, the capital, and then more down, uh, down here at the beach, shuttle services, all that back and forth to park and rides. It really is a fully integrated system, and I think they're the only one in America that does paratransit border to border. We didn't talk a whole lot about it, but they also have a microtransit service which, um, is operating in zones right now where they have their own vehicles are operating. You can, you know, dial it up or put it on your phone.

It's a great… John's built a great system here, really. So kudos to him as he heads out into retirement. We wish him the very best. This has been an awesome visit with him.

Hopefully you've enjoyed. You know, as I mentioned before, we're gonna be doing video podcasts now whenever we can, and, um, this is one of those travel podcasts. But we've got the great Cyndi doing the filming behind the scenes, Cyndi Raskin, and we're gonna try to bring you video whenever we can for this podcast going forward. Thanks for being with us on this episode of Transit Unplugged, and if you think about Delaware Transit, think about what an amazing system it is.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Transit Unplugged, the world's number one transit executive podcast. I'm Julie Gates, executive producer of the podcast. Many thanks to the team that makes this show happen: host and producer Paul Comfort, producer Chris O'Keefe, editor Patrick Emile, associate producer Cyndi Raskin. Transit Unplugged is being brought to you by Modaxo, passionate about moving the world's people.

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