Storytelling at Scale: Inside NAB Show with Karen Chupka

Speaker A: Welcome to the Trade Show Talk Podcast brought to you by Trade Show News Network. Trade Show Talk presents intimate and interesting

Speaker B: conversations with peers and industry leaders with

Speaker A: the insights and tools you need to succeed as we navigate these changing times as a community. Here's your trade show talk host, Danica Tormalin.

Speaker C: Welcome to Trade Show Talk, the podcast where we have conversations with the leaders shaping the future of exhibitions and events. I'm your host, Danica Tormolen, and today we're diving in to one of the industry's most dynamic success stories. Joining me is Karen Chubka, Executive Vice President of Global Connections and Events at the national association of Broadcasters. Karen is a true icon in our industry. Literally. In 2022, she received TSNN's Icon Award recognizing her extraordinary contributions to the exhibitions and technology sectors. With more than two decades leading ces, where she transformed it into the global platform for innovation. Karen brought that expertise to NAB show in January 2024, and the results speak for themselves. This year's NAB show in Las Vegas welcomed more than 58,000 attendees from 146 countries, with content creator attendance surging 140% and corporate media professionals nearly doubling from the previous year. 20 Karen's career is a master class in large scale technology event planning. She's led $120 million business, launched CES Asia in Shanghai, and now she's reshaping NAB show as the premier marketplace for media innovation where broadcast entertainment, AI, sports media and the creator economy collide. Today, we're going behind the scenes of the 2026 NAB show, exploring how Karen is navigating the intersection of traditional, broad casting and emerging technologies and what it takes to grow a show in an era of rapid transformation. So, without further ado, welcome Karen Chepka to Trade Show Talk.

Speaker B: Thanks, Danica. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker C: We're so glad that you agreed to join us today. I've been wanting to chat with you ever since you started your new gig at. It's not even new anymore at nab since it's one of the largest shows. You know, I remember it with Chris Brown. I've been. I've attended your show in the past, but it's been a little while. So really excited to have you here today.

Speaker B: Thank you. I'm excited to be here.

Speaker C: Okay, so let's talk about that. You joined NAB in January of 2024 after, you know, you had a long stint at CES about more than two decades. So what drew you to this role at NAB and how did your experience building CES into a global innovation platform kind of inform your strategy that you're doing there at nab?

Speaker B: Well, you know, I think one of the things that was really interesting when the NAB opportunity came up was that the industry itself is just in a transformation. There's so much happening now with broadcast content creation, uh, and just the whole media and entertainment landscape. And so for me, I thought it was a really exciting opportunity because there's really an opportunity to transition the show into sort of what the future of media looks like. And that's always something that I've enjoyed doing. It was one of the things that really drew me to it. You know, thinking about sort of my experience at CES for all those years, there was a lot of similarities. There were a lot of areas where new players were coming to market, where they had, where maybe our traditional show didn't necessarily speak to them. And so, you know, we had to always reinvent CES and continue to, uh, reinvent it to, to attract new types of audiences, new types of industries to the show. And so I felt like there was a lot of similarities there with what I did at ces that would actually make this job really interesting for me.

Speaker C: Yeah, and dealing with kind of those big companies too, Right? Some of the big players in the tech space and in the broadcasting space.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And you know, I think that there was also a lot of times when organizationally we worked together. So during like the HDTV transition, we had to work with the broadcast community and we were all partners in making that happen. So there was also some parallel and similarities with some of the customer base.

Speaker C: Yeah. So we wrote a story earlier this year on the NAB show earlier this spring, and you had some impressive growth. You had 58,000 attendees, I saw from 146 countries. 48% first time attendees. That's huge. What specific initiatives, from your perspective, do you think drove that growth?

Speaker B: You know what was interesting when I came into NAB was really looking at here was this hundred long history show that has so much history and recognition within the broadcast industry. And when I started looking at who was coming to the show and a little bit about what was happening, what I recognized is that the organization was really, really, really good about telling its story to itself and to its own industry, but not really talking a little bit beyond that. And so that was a little bit of where I was focusing on was we have every tool and technology that you need to either capture, create, monetize, distribute content from everything from a TikTok to the TV to the big screen. And yet people just couldn't kind of thought of us as broadcast. Right. And so it was a little bit of, uh, looking at rebranding, looking at how we expand our storytelling and how we really highlight some of the new things that are taking place in the media and entertainment landscape.

Speaker C: Yeah. So tell us about some of that rebranding. I can see what you mean about with the name. Right. National association of Broadcasters. You know, people can think that that's just about broadcasting, but that your industry has evolved so much over the years and particularly in recent times, there's just the typical traditional broadcasting. Abc, NBC, et cetera. Yeah, you've got so many different ways for the industry has moved. So tell us about some of those rebranding efforts. I think that'd be interesting.

Speaker B: Yeah, So a little bit of it was really looking at, you know, again, how do we speak about ourselves as the show. So really expanding the fact that, you know, we're not just again about broadcast, which of course is. Is our long history, but that we really are about enabling story and actually it's enabling storytelling itself scale. And in looking at what really broadcast means. That's kind of what it means. Everybody wants to have a wider audience. And uh, so for us it kind of put us in that unique position from the fact that we sort of have this rich history of knowing how to do this from broadcast television. But also now with all the different platforms that have come out and the tools and technology that are shown at our show. You know, used to be, I mean, yes, there's definitely really high end product there that companies spend a lot of money to invest in when you're building out a full professional studio. But we also have to have those tools and technologies to cover the latest sporting game or we have to have it to help news crews that are on out, you know, on the road covering a story. And I think as Covid kind of came into play, we saw all the newscasters have to really become their own broadcasters. They had to have their own equipment and be able to just fire up a story from their home. And so I think that really helped transform a little bit about what NAB was about. In a sense that now it's not just about that high end product that companies invest millions into, but also the things that really help enable everyday storytellers, be that somebody who is in the creator economy to of course what's happening now even in live sports. And so helping to tell that story, helping to bring in new voices that was Also an important part of bringing in some of those folks who are really changing the way media and content is being captured and distributed and talking about it at the show and making them aware of the show. And so that's sort of been a little bit of the two year journey of really looking at how we can help bring in those new voices, how we help connect them with the legacy. Because that, that's also an interesting story and, and that's been a little bit of the journey that we've been on.

Speaker C: Yeah. So that 48% of first time attendees. What are some of the big new sectors of first timers that segments of buyers that you're going after?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean some of it is just creators across the board. Uh, you look now at some of what's happening and how some of the creators now themselves are becoming studios and actually funding content. Not just creating content, but funding content. Some of it is coming from the creator economy. That's a good portion of the growth. The other areas that we're seeing growth is in sports because everything from every major league team to venues, everybody's really looking at how they can tell that story better, how they can better engage with fans, whether they're at the live experience or over the broadcast experience. And in the corporate and enterprise area. So when you look at how many corporations, brands are now telling their story via video and using video to connect with either consumers or they're in a lot of instances even their shareholders, there's so much that is happening with people building in house, in house studios for their own production that those are some of the growth segments that we're really seeing coming into the show now.

Speaker C: Yeah. So does that mean more? Did you really beef up your marketing efforts for those specific segments?

Speaker B: Yeah, those are some of the segments that we definitely invested in helping to expand our storytelling. It was kind of a multi pronged approach. It was looking at how do we market to them, but then also how do we make sure that we have content that's there for them. So making sure we're bringing in the right exhibitors and then also looking at just what are we coming from our stages. So like for instance, on the whole enterprise community, like we did uh, a whole day of just conference content on how do you build an in house studio, what do you need? You know, what are some of the different price points? So if you are a smaller company that's doing this, what would that look like versus, you know, a large corporate Fortune 1000 company? And so that actually was pretty popular for us and something that we'll be expanding on in 2027.

Speaker C: That is very cool. I mean we're. I'm seeing it from my end too. At Informa offices, we have studio areas with good mics and backgrounds, et cetera. We have a video team that edits, um, our work and all of that. So everybody's becoming their own broadcaster these days.

Speaker B: So yeah, in a sense. And I. It's just like again, what's interesting too is when we see especially like the creators that are now starting to become their own studios, a lot of them are pairing now with traditional legacy media executives because you have sort of the sweet spot of the executive who knows how to do this right. And who's had to build a team and manage the process of it. And you have the creators who now have just built in community already and built in audience. And so marrying those two just becomes really interesting. And you know, I think that's where NAB has a really unique opportunity and position going forward.

Speaker C: Yeah. To bring those two groups together. Right. Yeah. For partnerships and content. I want to step back a little bit. I should ask you, because I'm sure our audience is curious. Tell us about your role, your current role, like what you do exactly, you know, in your job and then you know, how many people are in your group that you manage and just give us kind of an overview of your day to day, year to year job.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I kind of came in and really looked at helping to try to figure out what's the strategy that we could really employ to go after these new audiences. You mentioned Chris Brown was there for over 20 years and obviously I inherited a great team of experts who had done, uh, and have a lot of experience in the trade show industry. But you know, I think coming in new, I had the opportunity to look at things in a fresh way and also had the opportunity to maybe sometimes see some opportunities because I am coming in from a different segment of the industry than where their sweet spot had been for so many years. And so the team I manage, you know, we have sales, marketing, conference and content, and then our marketing team has a comms portion to it. We have social media. So I mean, pretty much everything that you would have. Overall show organizer, um, it's about a team of about 40. We did have to beef up the team. A lot of our marketing was managed through a variety of consultants. And so that was one of the things that I really worked on was helping to build an internal team. Because I really feel like, especially when you get into an industry that has so much transition going on. You also need experts who are going to learn about the industry and learn more about, you know, where you're building and how you're building and how to better tell that story. So there was investment in building out our marketing team and building out some different platforms to make us better at telling our story, you know, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. And kind of interesting because I just had the whole team in this week for some planning meetings, and our team member. This is the first time we've been all fully staffed, and some of them have only been there for less than six months. So we're all still getting to know each other, too. And that's been kind of an interesting component of it, of actually getting, uh. In April, not only were there people that had never been to a trade show before, we had a couple that had never been to Las Vegas. So getting to see that experience is always very fun and fascinating. And watching them come back and just be like, now I get what we're doing. Because in our industry, as we all know in the trade show world, it's kind of sometimes hard to explain to people what exactly it is you do.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. So you brought marketing in house, and you've staffed up there, and you talked a little bit about, like, different platforms. So I'm just curious, you know, thinking about it, like, what platforms are working for you in terms of, like, what's been most effective for your team and marketing?

Speaker B: Yeah, one of them. Well, you know, I think there's a couple things that that's actually really exciting, which is organizationally. We also, um, decided to take on a project of trying to unify all of our data in house. And so that meant both from the association side and the trade show side. And so there's been a team that was, um, assigned to do that across the organization. And so first off, we have that now we have pretty much a couple hundred thousand records that are completely unified that we know. So from 2019 on, how somebody has participated, participated in the association, be that conference programming or as a member. And we actually also are able to capture all the information about various email addresses that they've used. So that's just really, really, really beneficial. Now with the new marketing team coming on, we're now able to take that and start working with our Salesforce platform as well as data cloud to start now building better profiles, better Personas for some of these new audiences that we're going after. We're starting now with Build More personalization in that we can start pushing out, um, as. As people come and experience be at the website as we build out our next app. We'll be starting on soon. So it's really now trying to personalize that journey for people and helping them to get the better experience that they want at the show and some of the different tools that we're using to do that. The other thing is that now that we have this data kind of cleaned up and unified, it's also enabled us to put on some AI tools for our sales team. And so that's really awesome too. And we started it right at the beginning of this year. So we're just getting ready now to go through a cycle where we'll be able to use it full year. But it allows us to bring in prospects and kind of set up a cadence for them that once we score them at a certain number, we know that they've engaged with us enough times that it's time for the salesperson to pick up the phone and call them. And so there's been a lot of, like, technology like that that's really just helping us work a lot smarter with what we're doing. And even leading into the show, like, I was able to just take a, uh, reg file and run it through some AI tools and pull out live, like, who we had registered from NFL teams, NHL teams, venues, and hand that over to the sales team that they were, like, able to call prospects at that moment in time and say, these are actually registrants coming to the show, and this is why you need to be at an NAB show. So those are just some of the fun things that we've been sort of building on the background.

Speaker C: That is very cool. And to have that kind of data is the holy grail, right? Of. I mean, that's really from the show organizer side, the meat of what you have, right? I mean, of course the show is. Is it Right? But you don't have that clean data behind it, and especially a lot of people have data. But whether it's clean and usable and being able to tap that, that's fantastic. Do you. Can you comment at all on any of, like, what's in your tech stack that you're loving?

Speaker B: Um, well, you know, I think some of this is that we did with our IT team and our data team. You know, I think that that a lot of this was being built with. With the usability of being able to build it off of some Salesforce functionality that's already happening. Right. So we're not Necessarily having to build something from scratch. And they really focused on building the data in data cloud so that then we can use multiple tools with it. And there's so much, I mean, what's nice about that now is there's a lot of off the shelf products that integrate with that. So we're also not having to necessarily customize everything and find that it's not working or it is working. Right. I mean, these are things that have already been built and have connectivity already enabled with them. So that's made it a lot eas. I think for us now one of the things that we're working on is, and it hasn't happened yet, but they're just getting ready to start doing that, is building individual dashboards for our sales team so that they know as soon as they come in who's their pipeline, who's in their prospects, who's had what activity in the last 24 hours and can really make decisions based on that. And then what's nice on the marketing side is that this is also giving us, uh, just much more information about what our attendees are doing. Because as we all know, like for years we've asked people to fill out these questionnaires and let's face it, get bored by the time you're through screen eight and uh, you're somebody ask questions and you just start ticking things. Right. And so now with being able to have an identifier, we're able to have better understanding about where people are going, what sessions they're scanning into, where they're coming onto the website. And that's what's really going to help us build much more personalization going forward. And so that I'm really excited about. I mean, to me this has been probably in my entire career the promise of, you know, something that we all wanted to build to and the fact that I feel like we're, you know, starting to actually be able to do it and we'll start being able to do more and more of it is just incredibly exciting.

Speaker C: That is. So it's really more about being able to track actual behavioral data versus like a survey or after the fact asking them where they went or rate something, you know, minute by minute, where they're at or what they're checking into, like you said, and what booth serving scanned out and collecting all of that data and actually doing something with it.

Speaker B: Yeah, and it's, it's even like right now because, because we were looking at some things about like, what's the difference between our Sunday and Monday audience. Right. And I just said, well, let's start, I mean we have scanned data, uh, let's start pulling those titles and seeing is it actually doing what we think it is. Right. Like we don't have to wonder anymore. We can actually pull that now and take a look at it. And you know, the great thing is now with AI tools, what would have been taken somebody a lot of work through, you can get a pretty good summary of. It's not going to be perfect, but it's going to give you a really good summary to say, yeah, this actually seems to be mirroring what we think. And so we either want to continue it or we don't. Right. But we just have so many more tools at our hands now to make better decisions.

Speaker C: So we talked a little bit about the spring show. You have the New York show coming up. So tell us a little bit about what you have planned there and maybe for this audience, the differentiators between the two events. Right. And then some of the things that you're excited about seeing come to life at the show.

Speaker B: Yeah, the fun thing about New York is it's really in the heart of everything that's live and looking at it and coming in and looking at the data of who was going to the show. So it brings about 12,000 registrants to it, attendees to it, a couple hundred, usually about 250, 260 exhibitors. So it's really sort of um, one day event that people come in. And what's interesting though is when I started looking at who was coming to the show because most of that audience is really in live production. They're doing the news, they're doing live sports, they're at live theaters. So 70% of that audience doesn't come to Las Vegas. And so for us it's really an opportunity to bring some of the tools and technologies to them. So we get a lot of like producers or engineers, um, you know, the folks that are working every day and can't get away because they're working live at media, uh, and entertainment, but they can't come down for a few hours to javits and check out the latest tools and technologies. And so we also program that a little bit differently. We program heavy broadcast related topics on like day one of the show, day two, we kind of lean into more of the creator economy and tap into like the schools and you know, newer audiences that are, uh, learning how to use the tools and tech. And it kind of helps our exhibitors because they could stack their booths differently for each of those audiences. We Also look at how we can help our news desks that are, um, that are in New York. So for, like, two years ago, right before the election, we put on a program of, you know, how to prepare for the election coverage and gave a lot of tools and information to prep all the anchors and everybody who would be covering the elections. We also look at things like journalism and what future journalism needs to look like, how AI is going to influence that. So we really kind of dive into that also, like live news and live production, part of it for New York.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's a big difference there. So 70% of the attendees go to New York only and not the Las Vegas show. Wow. I didn't realize the number was that high. That's.

Speaker B: That's.

Speaker C: That's interesting. So, okay, I want to talk a little bit. You. I mean, you already kind of alluded to this creator economy and the attendees that came there. And I noticed one of the things we pointed out in the story was that attendance jumped 140% year over year on that creator side. So that's a massive shift. Talk about where you see that positioning. I think you kind of already discussed this a little bit, but you continue to see that growing in the future. Future segment, Absolutely.

Speaker B: You know, for a couple different reasons. I mean, one is that there is just a lot happening in that space right now. And there's a story we tell about is, like, there. So Dhar Mann, who is just named again, I think, like, number one creator in Forbes, on Forbes list of creators. Um, we had him come and speak on our stages two years ago, so 2025 show. And he was an interesting matchup because the CEO of his company is Sean Atkins. And Sean was, you know, president of Discovery. He was at MTV Network. So again, this is that legacy media being now aligned with who has this huge following and audience. And so he tapped into, you know, this executive to help him build this. Build this business. And now they're actually funding projects. So we had them, um, kind of on our stages talking about what has happened and how they're going to market with this new. New company that they built in this new studio that they're building. And it was interesting because now this year, we got a call from somebody who, by the name of Zongster, similar situation. This is creator that has something like 70 million followers across platforms. And was like, well, we saw that Dar was there, and so we need to be there, because anywhere Dhar Mann is, we know we need to be at. Right? And so there's just much more Activity starting to happen here. Because when you think about what the creators have, especially ones that are, you know, building bigger businesses, I mean, they already have millions and millions of followers and audience. And that's so much of what, when you're trying to put new content out, that's really important to have that built in audience. And so I don't necessarily see that changing anytime soon. I only see that growing. And I think that's where we just are. So, you know, we just have such a unique position in the sense that we have the people who have done this for so many years under the traditional media landscape and who know how to scale, who know how to have that discipline of, uh, running a 24 hour content, you know, situation with what is a creator who maybe got involved with this because they just love telling stories and taking their videos and now have suddenly grown into this business and they have to manage this business. Right. And so now we get to marry those two sweet spots together. So that's why I think there's really a lot of interesting opportunity for us.

Speaker C: Definitely. Well, that's 70 million followers. That's crazy, isn't that.

Speaker B: I mean, yeah, I like Dar. When Dar was on our stage, I think his YouTube channel had something like 24 million subscribers to it, which, I mean, is insane.

Speaker C: Yeah, well, that's what makes media successful, right? The audience and then you get the sponsors and the advertising. But it is about a business in the end. Right. So connecting and helping the audience get the right products.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I wanted to also ask you about, I mean, I'd noticed you talked a little bit about this, uh, earlier about all the sports teams that you had. 75 professional sports teams, 22 leagues, 30 sports venues. For those in our audience who aren't as familiar, it sounds like basically, you know, the event is a very horizontal event, but then also you have specific content for verticals within that. And the sports one, it sounds like ramped up. So tell us about why it's such a focus for you these days.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, actually it's kind of interesting. This is probably one of the things that goes back to the broadcast roots, which is sports has always been one of the, um, drivers of live broadcast tv. And it's still one of the content pieces that people want to watch live. Nobody wants to watch a replay of, uh, the game that happened yesterday. I mean, they do, but I'm saying it is the thing that everybody wants to be live watching and experiencing because they all want to go talk about it later. Right. And so it's Driving just so much content and interest. And when you think about now how much interest there is in women's sports and everything else, there's just a lot of investment kind of coming into this area. And you layer on top of that groups like, ah, Religion of Sports. That's it. Religion of Sports. This is a company that's founded by Tom Brady, Michael Strahan. Gotham Chopa is like the CEO of it and that's Deepak Chopra.

Speaker C: Sun.

Speaker B: Right. And like what they do is they produce documentaries on just excellence. And so they've done like the Simone Bile story, they've done Tom Brady. I mean and they kind of look at really just high end, high elite storytelling. And so it's kind of that interesting intersection of not only are we watching the live parts of this, but now there's so much interest into the athletes themselves and what they're doing and they're building their own brands. And so for us that's a really big interest area. Not only because of where we sort of come from, but uh, and the fact that it still drives live entertainment. But there's so much happening now with just licensing rights and you know, even as a college athlete, how you come to market and manage your brand from the point of maybe even high school. And so we have that really unique, uh, opportunity again to dive into.

Speaker C: Great. Yeah. That you're really like on the forefront of. Yeah. What's, what's happening in broadcasting overall? So now when you think about it, what's next? Like what's some of the things that are bubbling up that you're keeping an eye on and that you're looking at expanding for 27.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, uh, some of these areas we will just continue to dive into because we just wanted to the surface of it. Right. But I think for us it's also looking at how we can help more people feel like they're a part of an AV show too. So one of the things that we launched at the 26 show was also this, uh, creator. We have a creator council that we put together, but we launched this VIP creator program. And for us it was one of the things was to help bring more creators not only to the show, but also just to some of the services that NAB can offer as an organization. And so it's been really great because the creators that are part of that actually helped us found the council are really active in this and they're so excited to be a part of this and they're actually helping us hold town halls for other creators and looking at things like mental health, you know, and having conversations around like, okay, uh, what are some of the legal pitfalls that you need to be aware of before you scale up? Really trying to create their own community that we actually get to be a part of. And so I'm excited to see how we could further build that for 2027.

Speaker C: Well, I will tell you, I definitely took note of that and I am going to be a hosted creator at Cvent Connect coming up in Nashville next month. So I'm really excited to participate as an official creator for that event. So hosted. I just got a box, I haven't done my unboxing yet of like what I'm going to. They sent something, so we'll see what's in that. And then, you know, they have all kinds of things planned for a small group of creators. So really interesting to see that come to life. And I know a lot of shows, right. Are having specific programs for influencers creators, and some of those are just crazy. I saw something at one of the market shows where like they sold like a million dollars worth of, you know, merchandise or something. Just like, like being in the booth talking, going, oh, this is hot. I love this, that type of thing. So really tapping into that from the show organizer perspective, that has relevancy across any show.

Speaker B: It does. And you know, the thing that's like we have an area called the Creator Lab. And what's actually interesting there is like, uh, Adobe has a classroom there and also does hands on training. And we have other creators come in and take over and help train on how to, you know, how to maybe edit or do some post, you know, uh, there's actually some like post software that can allow you to insert products for advertising placement after you do the podcast or, you know, the recording. And so that's also like, the interesting side of it is that you not only get to kind of come and see this, but we, and see the tools, but we also have some really good experts there to help train people and help them up their game and scale up.

Speaker C: But sounds like I need to be there.

Speaker B: I think you're going to have to be there, Danica.

Speaker C: Sounds. Sounds like it. Okay, I have one more business question for you and then I do want to jump a little bit to some fun, like rapid fire questions, but I noticed 1 in 4 attendees are in or from outside the US so talk about building that international audience.

Speaker B: Yeah. So again, one of the interesting things is that storytelling happens across the globe. Right. Um, what's kind of interesting about an AV show is as we see things like, uh, cities building up for the Olympics or for World cup. We actually see delegations coming from those countries about two years in advance to start prepping for it. Because they have to build the facilities, they have to build the broadcast areas, they have to get all of their equipment ready. In fact, I was just talking earlier this year about just watching our Olympic coverage. Um, this past year. You know, the very first thing I happened to turn on was like, uh, snowboarding and, and they had drones up in the air actually covering the athletes. And I was like, this is amazing. And of course you should have a drone following. You know, somebody who's doing a 180 flip, whatever. Right. So that is sometimes the draw is that we're getting uh, those, you know, that we're getting groups coming in to buy and prepare for their future of um, whatever experience they're building within their communities. But it's also one of those things where again, everybody kind of wants to have the latest and greatest tools. And so they do come because in addition to some of the things I've talked about already, I mean, we do bring in world class cinematographers and world class producers and directors that talk about maybe what they just did on Dune or the latest movie or the latest television show. So there is a lot of creativity and community there. And that's actually one of the things that I think I found really interesting about looking at who comes to NAB show is that there is a really strong loyal following because they feel a sense of community and they love the ability to come and learn from some of the best in the industry. And uh, and so that's also kind of uh, a big draw for why people come to NAB Show.

Speaker C: Yeah, you had some big name people on that we mentioned in the story and showed in some of the photos. So yeah, that's great that you can even, you know, have a big community when you have like 58,000 attendees. Right. Like to be able to still make it feel like there is a community there.

Speaker B: Yeah, and I think it's also interesting because again, and I think that's, that's the, you know, again, that branding part of going to the heart of storytelling, it just really does cut across so many different types of storytellers. And again, people sort of, I think their first inclination of NAB show is that broadcaster, but it's just so much more and it's kind of fun because we also have an area that really does have all of the high end equipment that you use for shooting movies. And we do workshops there for that. And, uh, it'll be great to see a creator come in and be like, wait, I can touch one of those. And, you know, it's like a crane camera. They're getting to actually use it and learn how to, like, you know, shoot somebody's feet or something as they're walking. And so it's also just fun to watch the magic of seeing somebody create or get to try and experience some of these tools for the first time.

Speaker C: That's great. Okay, well, I think I'm gonna have to come there next year, so I

Speaker B: look forward to seeing you.

Speaker C: I need some, uh, some creativity and, uh, to learn how what all the new cool tech and tools are that I could be utilizing. So, yeah, I, I mean, to do that. Okay, we're going to shift gears a little bit. I just have five rapid fire questions for you. Just some quick, fun answers. Are you ready?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Okay, so I'm m looking for best show floor snack. After all these years on the trade show circuit, what's your go to show floor snack or caffeine fix to keep you going on long event?

Speaker B: Well, everybody knows chicken tenders.

Speaker C: Okay, I did not know that. I know about shoes. I didn't know about chicken tenders. So that's good.

Speaker B: Chicken tenders almost every day. It's just, it's, you know, as I say, it's easy, it's quick, and it's pretty hard to screw up a chicken tender, so.

Speaker C: Okay, that's a good one. Okay, so your most memorable show moments in your decades of producing major events, what's one moment that you want to share or behind the scenes that still makes you smile?

Speaker B: I think it was a long, long time ago at CES and it was back to back keynotes by Scott McNeely and Bill Gates. And I say that because that was the first time both of them keynoted at ces. And up until that point, CES was sort of known as the TV show, and after that appearance suddenly became the tech show. That was just such a transitional moment in time that I will always remember.

Speaker C: Yeah, that brings a smile to my face. I can see that coming together. Okay, guilty pleasure TV show. You work in the broadcast and media industry. What's your guilty pleasure for TV or streaming service that you binge when you're not working?

Speaker B: I, uh, was gonna say, and this is so good because it's actually a broadcast tv, so it's good. It's General Hospital. It's my mindless tv General Hospital. And true story, we had Stephen Smith on our stage last year. And, um, right before I had met him, and I don't know how many people know this, but he actually is a big General Hospital fan and he actually has a walk on role that he does reoccurring as a character in General Hospital. And so everybody is up there going, oh my God, Stephen Smith, love your sports coverage, blah, blah, blah, talking to him. And I'm just like, I love you on General Hospital. He looks, he goes, oh my God, I love General Hospital. And he's like, you know, I just got called, I got to go do some stuff there. And so it was just very funny.

Speaker C: That is hilarious. I did used to watch that. I used to be my guilty pleasure. In high school or in college? In high school, in the summers and then college. So that is like one of the longest running shows. Gotta be.

Speaker B: It's over 60 years running. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. My goodness. Okay, so your, your travel ritual launches international travel constantly. Do you have a travel ritual or must have item that goes with you to every event?

Speaker B: Of course. Shoes, Shoes. Shoe, shoes. And the more, uh, the better.

Speaker C: What are you averaging, let's say. So if you're going to the Navy show in New York, how many pairs of shoes are you going to be bringing over? Uh, what, do you stay there for like a week?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, a week. Because it's also on top of our board meetings. I barely travel anywhere without five. Even if it's for two days, it's going to probably be about five pairs of shoes at least. Why not? And then I'll probably buy a pair or two too. So that's the other guilty pleasure. At some point I'm sneaking away to buy or not another pair.

Speaker C: What was your last purchase of shoes that you love? Any good ones that we should be looking at?

Speaker B: Yeah, I, um, actually there's been, there's been two that I love. Um, so I, I invested in a really beautiful pair of Hermes tennis shoes that are so incredibly comfortable and are not like my go to that have to come with me. And a very beautiful pair of Chanel's that are baby blue and gray and I just, just can't help but wear as much as I can. They're also flat, so they make it very convenient to be able to, to walk a trade show floor in.

Speaker C: Thank goodness for flats and sneakers. Now I will say that, and that's nice to hear. I might have to have you snap me a picture of those, both of those shoes and I'll drop it with our story and also take a peek at Them because I have a pair of Dolce Gabbana tennis sneakers that I bought, and they're so cute, but they are so not comfortable.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know, and it's funny that you could buy tennis shoes that are not comfortable, but, yes, I've done that too, so I understand.

Speaker C: Exactly. Okay, last question. So, advice for your younger self.

Speaker B: Boy, advice for my. Take care of yourself. You know, I think it's so easy to get completely caught up in travel and everything that we do in the trade show world, eating chicken nuggets and all the bad stuff. Right. And I think probably the thing I wish I would have done more is exercise and keep that regimen going, because at the end of the day, that's always the thing that makes me feel better. And, uh, and it took me a long time to figure that out. So I would say take care of yourself.

Speaker C: That's good advice to your younger self and to the rest of our audience. So thank you so much, Karen, for your time today. It's been a great conversation with you, so thanks again and thank you.

Speaker B: And I can't wait to see you in April at NAB Show.

Speaker C: Next up, an advocacy update with Tommy Goodwin, president and CEO of the Exhibitions and Conferences alliance, also known as eca. Hi, Tommy.

Speaker A: Danica M. How are you?

Speaker C: I am doing well. The summer is in high gear. So excited to see, like, all the World cup activities here in my hometown of Kansas City. And so feels like some of the international tensions, etcetera, are kind of drifted away right now during this time. So it's really great to see.

Speaker A: You know, I think it's hard to argue that, uh, some of the European fans who've come over, like, uh, Freddie, who has made such a splash on Twitter, I think they've probably done more for travel and tourism in America over the last couple of weeks than, uh, anything the, uh, government's done for years. So kudos to them and thank you.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's been great to see. That's really good. So hopefully that'll mean some good things for international attendance going forward into Q3 and Q4. Yeah.

Speaker A: And also a fantastic interview with Karen there that was, uh, very insightful.

Speaker C: Yeah. She has one in four attendees are international for her event in Las Vegas. The big show in April in Las Vegas. So big impacts there. So always good to see some positive things there.

Speaker A: Big impacts there. And I want to use this, uh, as an opportunity to send a shout out to Sean Perkins, who heads up marketing and communications for that event. He and I go back to my days working at AARP about 20 years ago. He was actually a consultant of mine and so now he's leading uh, marketing for that event. So um, Sean Carry that whole team do an incredible job over there.

Speaker C: Yeah, we talked about their rebranding efforts recently. So I'm sure he was a, you know, role in that. So everybody, uh, hope you enjoyed that little part about their rebranding efforts. And Karen has really uh, spearheaded that over the last last couple of years.

Speaker A: Amazing job by that whole team. It really is impressive. Yeah.

Speaker C: Okay, so let's talk about what we have going on this month. Tommy, what is happening? We wrote a story about it. I'll drop a link in the show notes about it. But tell us about this new proposal, explain it to our audience since we have you here.

Speaker A: Yes, this is a very uh, interesting one by an agency called the U.S. office of Management and Budget and what basically that group is, it's the president staff. So interestingly, even though you might have a Democrat or Republican Republican president, they have career staff there that serve both uh, parties and are just the people who keep the nuts and bolts going. And they are responsible for issuing a lot of government wide policies and a government wide policy, um, proposing some changes to how the federal government manages the grants that it gives out both to researchers at places like the National Institute of Health, the National Science foundation, all the way to the grants that they give to state and local governments to do things like um, cybersecurity infrastructure, things like that. And this ah, proposal was about 450 pages and is probably one of the most sweeping proposals that I have seen ever in my time in D.C. that proposes to upend all types of things related to how grants are given out, how they're approved, how that money can and can't be spent, what restrictions they place on those who receive the grants and where that money can be spent, spent. And so this was a very, very sweeping proposal and it is something that is very interesting here inside the Beltway in that it has something in there that I think has angered every group in town no matter what they do, no matter what their issues. Uh, this was a catch all that has really created a lot of challenges and there are two particular ones for the events industry that I think are potentially incredibly harmful and that were pushing back on. One of those would restrict conference attendance. So let's say you're a researcher who gets a grant or your state and local government who gets uh, an infrastructure grant and goes to an event to figure out for some procurement solutions that kind of Thing they've said that if you don't know exactly what event you want to go to, when that grant is initially awarded, you then can't attend them. And you know, some of these grants are for four or five, six years. I mean, imagine getting a cybersecurity grant in the summer of 2020 and not knowing about this thing called ChatGPT that was coming around the corner and then having the government tell you, oh no, you couldn't possibly go to an AI related conference because you didn't know that was coming four years ago when you submitted your grant application. I mean it's a bit madness and so that would be very, very harmful. The other one is about event services and in particular venues and what they can and can't do. And I think the goal here was they didn't want organizers who bring controversial speakers. We wouldn't want to be able to charge them extra fees. They call them heckler's fees. Right. To have the extra security to make sure everything is orderly. And you know, there's, there are no security incidents or anything like that. But it's written in such a way that it would have wide, wide potential impact on how venues operate, um, with security, how they coordinate with local police forces and fire marshals and could really create a situation where venues might just turn down certain events because they can't charge or address or provide the right resources for risk management. So two things that we think are some pretty terrible ideas. And so as Matt and you wrote about in T S N, definitely, uh, some things that we're looking for people in the industry to weigh in on and share their perspective about.

Speaker C: Great. Well, I know Trevor Mitchell with the CEO of iabm, the International association of um, venue Managers also weighed in and called into question what they were talking about there in terms of your event services. Right. That that would make it, it's not tenable for them.

Speaker A: And I mean if you think about, you know, from a venue security and safety perspective, right. Those are on the ground, real time decisions. And you know, there's some language in there that says you can't do anything differently for an event that's of the similar size and scope I think is the word they use. Similar size and scope. Okay, well a 5,000 person event of scientific researchers and a uh, 5,000 person event of arms manufacturers, those events look a little different. Right. The shot show looks different than a medical, medical conference. Right. Con Expo, Con AG looks different than, you know, the American side of association executives. Right. You can't make those decisions based on that. And just the idea of taking safety and security decisions out of the hands of the trained professionals and the law enforcement officials and the local safety officials and putting them in the hands of bureaucrats in Washington D.C. is just an absolutely terrible idea. I don't think that's what they intended when they wrote it this way. But as we've seen with a lot of the issues we talk about on Trade Show Talk, just because we're not necessarily being targeted doesn't mean we wouldn't be impacted. And I think that's what we're looking at here.

Speaker C: So give us an idea timeline wise. So now it's a proposal. So when would it take effect and what can and should second part, people do to get in their comments on this?

Speaker A: So the proposal was set out in late May and so it had a 45 day time period for people to weigh in on. And so ECA submitted some comments on behalf of the industry as part of that window, which ends on July 13th. But we're really encouraging, wherever you sit within this ecosystem, you have incredible knowledge of these issues and can bring a perspective that is really important that these folks at the Office of Management and Budget understand. So anytime between now and July 13th, you can go to ECA's website, it's ECA Advocate Advocacy.org and visit the ECA Advocacy Center. There's a link, um, it'll just direct you right there. You can insert your own letter. We have a template that you can use where you can personalize it and tweak it and share your comments on this. Now the way it's supposed to work is omb, the Office of Management and Budget is supposed to adjudicate and review all of the comments that they receive from different stakeholders. Usually when there's a proposed regulation, there might be a thousand or two thousand of these comments and you have to go through, read them and respond to them. Um, as of recording right now there are more than 65,000 comments on this. I think we're trending towards well over a hundred thousand, maybe closer to 200,000 by the end of this. So if they follow the processes, adjudicating those and reviewing them and making the requisite changes is going to take quite some period of time. Now remains to be seen if they do that. It also remains to be seen. I would imagine, uh, there will be some nomadic. What ultimately makes it through to the final rule. I would imagine there's going to be some litigation around that. So the answer to your question in terms of when does this take Effect, I think that is very much to be determined. It shouldn't be anytime soon. But as we know in Washington D.C. these days, anything can happen. So we are uh, we're keeping an eye uh, out 24 7, 365 for the industry. But we would love as many trade show talk listeners as possible to get in on this and support the effort because it really is a whole of industry push on this.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. So by July 13th would be the 45 day drop off for the proposal. But then they need to respond and review all of those comments. So the more comments that they have against these proposals, the better. Right.

Speaker A: They would need to hear from everybody on this and whether that's from just informing them and helping them understand what's being proposed or just running down the shot clock, as you sort of allude to everybody who's listening to this, we would love it if you, if you make your way to epca advocacy.org and uh, make you and your organization's voice heard because it really is needed.

Speaker C: Great. Okay, well we will drop a link to that also in our show notes so that there's a direct link right to that. And I guess I need to go on and put in some comments for you as well. So we will wrap with that. We will just focus on this one issue this month because it sounds like this is really critical, especially on the attendant side. Right. The grants and the approvals for spending. You know how we all know that conference attendees are signing up later and later. So five years out, four years out, a year out is not going to work for us. And for there's so many people that do come especially for like a medical event that are coming on grand cities, municipals, all those kind of things. So it really could have an impact on attendance for future events. So we will focus on that this

Speaker A: month and I thank you very much for it. I thank you and Matt for helping get the word out to all the TSNN readers and all the listeners of trade talk. And you know, you're right, it has a tremendous impact on attendance. And it's also one of those, it was a bit of a head scratcher for us because in some ways they're really kneecapping the impact that they can have with this grant funding. Right. If you're doing research, if you're looking for the latest technology solution to acquire. Right. All of that happens at events and trade shows. That's how the word gets out. That's how ideas become reality. And it would be really harmful for the government to view all of the great work that all of you who are listening do as, ah, a cost center rather than a value driver. So your support in helping to make that case is absolutely critical.

Speaker C: Well, uh, and maybe it's, uh, the idea of unintended consequences, right? Like they're not really thinking through how it may work on a day to day basis. Maybe from their perspective on the Office of Management and Budgeting, it's easier to think that, okay, we'll just do it this way, but in reality it may not be so effective. So we'll get the word out.

Speaker A: The reality of Face to Face is it's not lines on a spreadsheet. Can't look at it that way. And you know, I thank you so very much for allowing us to share this issue with everybody in the industry and, uh, encouraging them to get involved. So thank you.

Speaker C: You are welcome. So we will see you next month, Tommy. And in between, we will see you in person at eska, the Service Contractors Association Summer Educational Conference, which is next week. And the episode, this episode will drop July 1st. So we'll see you again in August.

Speaker A: Thank you very much. Thanks everybody for listening.

Speaker C: That's our show for today. Thanks for listening to Trade Show Talk. If you enjoyed this episode, subscribe wherever you get your podcasts and leave us a review. Until next time. Keep connecting, keep innovating, and keep talking trade shows.