Sokin's Blueprint for Global Treasury

1 - > Vroon Modgill: Using stablecoin for the treasury is like 2 - > upgrading from trucks to planes. 3 - > Right. 4 - > It's the same package, same destination. 5 - > It just means it's getting there faster.

6 - > Sasha Pilch: Hi everyone. 7 - > Welcome to the This Week in FinTech podcast. 8 - > My name is Sasha Pilch. 9 - > I'm usually the host of the this month in FinTech podcast, 10 - > but I'm subbing in for Nik today because he's at the Stablecon 11 - > conference.

12 - > And I'm super excited to have our guest today. 13 - > We have Vruend, the CEO of Sokin. 14 - > So welcome Vroon. 15 - > How are you doing today?

16 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, good thanks, Sasha. 17 - > How are you? 18 - > Sasha Pilch: Yeah, really good, thanks. 19 - > And where in the world are you dialing in from?

20 - > Vroon Modgill: So I'm actually in San Francisco, sunny San 21 - > Francisco today for um the stablecon salon event that Sokin 22 - > is co-hosting with a TWIF. 23 - > So yeah, it's good. 24 - > The weather's nice. 25 - > Everyone's happy.

26 - > So yeah, it's great. 27 - > Sasha Pilch: Beautiful, yeah. 28 - > Um last time I went to San Francisco, weather was beautiful 29 - > and the city was thriving. 30 - > It feels like there was a bit of a lull during COVID, and now 31 - > it's very much dark, and I'm so excited about San Francisco 32 - > these days.

33 - > Vroon Modgill: So yeah, we've been back a few, we've been back 34 - > a few times, and it's great to see actually. 35 - > It's great to see many of the cities as well getting back to 36 - > normal. 37 - > So yeah, very happy to be back in SF. 38 - > Sasha Pilch: Awesome.

39 - > Great. 40 - > So usually when I interview my guests, I talk a little bit 41 - > about how you got to where you are. 42 - > I'm very excited to jump into Soken and what it does, but 43 - > let's touch on your experience and the path for you to get 44 - > where you are today. 45 - > So you have a background in finance and you've been in 46 - > crypto for a long time.

47 - > So anything that you can tell us about that journey that led 48 - > you to where you are today? 49 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, absolutely. 50 - > So yeah, I was I was uh part of a crypto company back in uh 51 - > sort of 20 sort of 15 to about 2017 onwards, and and then up to 52 - > 2019 before I started soaking. 53 - > So very early stages when there was probably like two, three of 54 - > us around, and and my job very much was to break down the doors 55 - > of banks and bin sponsors when we were trying to do card 56 - > programs, so quite successfully achieved that in the US.

57 - > I think we were the first company to get a card program 58 - > going. 59 - > Um, and really my sort of eyes really opened up within the 60 - > payment space, the remittance space, the whole idea of 61 - > settling funds globally in that journey. 62 - > Um, and yeah, like I said, we were very early adopters, and 63 - > then in 2019, when I first started Sokin, it was actually 64 - > as a consumer payment company. 65 - > Um, and by 2021, 2020, 2021 onwards, we started really 66 - > pivoting towards the sort of the business business and B2B 67 - > space.

68 - > I think I think the consumer model was kind of like slightly 69 - > breaking. 70 - > I think it's even now you have the challenges with those like 71 - > kind of like super super consumer apps who are kind of 72 - > one of another bank. 73 - > So it it was a bit difficult to kind of break down. 74 - > And the more we were educating ourselves about the sort of the 75 - > the business side of things, especially at the enterprise 76 - > mid-tier level, I think that pivot was only kind of natural.

77 - > So around 2022, we started really pivoting towards business 78 - > payments essentially. 79 - > Um, and yeah, like 90% of my SMT stayed with me, and and 80 - > yeah, the success is we're seeing the fruits of of all of 81 - > that sort of uh infrastructure work that we put in in the early 82 - > days, and and and now we're seeing the rewards of that. 83 - > Sasha Pilch: I'm a big fan of B2B. 84 - > I uh was early at Quovo and Platt and Ramp, um, and went on 85 - > to Fin Capital to only invest in B2B infrastructure companies.

86 - > I think that that was definitely an amazing pivot by 87 - > you guys. 88 - > It's like the CAC is so much lower when you're not having to 89 - > spend all this money on Instagram ads to acquire the 90 - > consumer. 91 - > So, like, sounds like a very good pivot and evident in your 92 - > metrics, and really great that you've had 90% retainment of the 93 - > leadership team, like just really showing the belief in you 94 - > as a leader. 95 - > So, congratulations on that.

96 - > That's awesome. 97 - > Um, so let's dive in for the listeners about what Sokin 98 - > actually does. 99 - > So, can you run us through? 100 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, absolutely.

101 - > Look, Sokin helps businesses scale um without friction. 102 - > Um, essentially, that is the values of the company, that is 103 - > the motto of the company. 104 - > That's what everyone that's working at Sokin believes in. 105 - > Now you can break that down into three product verticals.

106 - > So one is offering global bank accounts, offering stablecoin 107 - > wallets, two is offering ERP integrations of those wallets 108 - > and of those accounts. 109 - > So this will be into like treasury management platforms 110 - > and so on. 111 - > And the third product vertical is payment gateways and 112 - > e-commerce acceptance. 113 - > So if businesses are invoicing other businesses or around the 114 - > world, they can accept money, or equally, if they've got 115 - > consumers that are buying products off their websites, 116 - > then they can use our sort of settlement accounts and our 117 - > infrastructure to be able to do that.

118 - > And essentially, we've deployed this in two very easy 119 - > go-to-market strategies as well. 120 - > That's quite straightforward to understand. 121 - > So we do direct to enterprise and mid-tier sort of uh 122 - > businesses. 123 - > Um, and the second part of that is embedded embedded uh 124 - > embedded finance and embedded product, where we allow 125 - > companies who want to scale up globally to write-label our 126 - > solution and essentially go global from day one.

127 - > So that's kind of a very high-level summary of uh what we 128 - > do as a business. 129 - > Sasha Pilch: Okay, that's really interesting. 130 - > So, like just to double-click on that, you're not only 131 - > offering the internal treasury management services, but then 132 - > also if a company wanted to extend like their e-commerce 133 - > services globally, they could do that with Soken as a one-stop 134 - > shop, not having to use multiple vendors. 135 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, think of us as one platform, one vendor, 136 - > um, instead of 10 banking relationships in different 137 - > stacks, we can provide that one integration.

138 - > If it's ERP systems around the world where subsidiaries are 139 - > using different ones, again, we are in that stack. 140 - > Often what you hear at enterprise level and sort of 141 - > that mid-tier level when they are trying to go global, you go 142 - > to some of the guys out there at the moment, and it's kind of, 143 - > oh, you're gonna have to have another three to six month 144 - > integration time with someone else, and you're trying to scale 145 - > up very quickly.

146 - > With Soakin from day one, you get global access. 147 - > So if you wanted to pivot towards Asia, if you want to 148 - > pivot towards Africa or Middle East or wherever it might be in 149 - > the world, um, as a US company that's growing, it's very easy 150 - > to do it from our platform and and and it's kind of no fuss. 151 - > Um, like I said, one one platform, one vendor. 152 - > Sasha Pilch: That's excellent.

153 - > Um, and great that you don't have to switch to a different 154 - > provider because they're using an ERP in one region that's not 155 - > popular in another region. 156 - > So great. 157 - > Vroon Modgill: Absolutely, Sasha. 158 - > And I think I think this is a lot of learning from when we 159 - > were doing the consumer product, to be honest.

160 - > I think you know, we we bootstrapped that product for 161 - > two, three years, and and you know, we wanted to scale up 162 - > quickly. 163 - > We had to go to market very quickly to make some money. 164 - > And often what would happen is you'd speak to providers and 165 - > you're trying to go go live in Asia, you're trying to go live 166 - > in the US, you're trying to go live in other places, and six 167 - > month, nine-month timeline to go live. 168 - > And yeah, after that point, we were like, no, businesses 169 - > shouldn't be facing this problem.

170 - > So we were kind of like, we we need to create something that 171 - > makes it super fast and super quick. 172 - > And yeah, luckily we've got a product that's doing that. 173 - > Sasha Pilch: Yeah, like you really built this out of the 174 - > frustration of trying to use the existing infrastructure, like 175 - > nine months to go live to and generate revenue is ridiculous. 176 - > So I'm glad that you've come in and fixed that.

177 - > Vroon Modgill: Thanks a lot. 178 - > Sasha Pilch: Um, so that's probably a good segue to talk 179 - > about like why treasury is broken today. 180 - > Like, what are the things that are really ridiculous at this 181 - > point that should be a lot easier considering the 182 - > technology that we have? 183 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, so look, most treasury tools assume sort 184 - > of one home currency.

185 - > Um, banking hours settlement Monday to Fridays, team can't 186 - > wait, you know, they have to wait overnight to reconcile. 187 - > The reality of a lot of enterprises is like I said, they 188 - > they're dealing with global subsidiaries, they're in global 189 - > markets, there's 10, 20 different banking relationships, 190 - > weekly FX to fund payroll, so you're sending money from one 191 - > place to the other, it takes two to three days to settle. 192 - > And then on the treasury side, if you go more on the balance 193 - > sheet side, when you've got AR and AP, especially on the 194 - > receivable side, when you've got funds coming in, often at that 195 - > level they're parked in Nostro accounts, and you've got teams 196 - > coming in on a Monday and spending three, four days 197 - > reconciling it.

198 - > So settlement speed is kind of breakages. 199 - > I think that's kind of like everyone's kind of aware of how 200 - > how long it takes, and even Swift sometimes how slow and 201 - > delays there are and the inherent problems that are 202 - > existing because of that. 203 - > I think the multiple relationships that a lot of 204 - > these enterprises are facing as well. 205 - > And then also now it's becoming very relevant that you know 206 - > funding for payroll and doing FX on a Monday when the payrolls 207 - > are going out on a Friday or a Thursday for a company, you're 208 - > losing you're losing that money with idle cash just sitting 209 - > around for like three, four days.

210 - > Um, and that's a big thing at uh, like I said, the enterprise 211 - > level material level that you're kind of dealing with. 212 - > And then also now with the technology that's kind of out 213 - > there, there should be some form of sort of routing 214 - > intelligence, you know, whether it's via stable coins, whereas 215 - > via fiat, what's the best route, what's the cheapest route, 216 - > whether it's speed you're after, whether it's cost you're after. 217 - > And this is where the Sokin solution is really a hybrid 218 - > between both and gives optionalities to a lot of these 219 - > customers.

220 - > And like I said, at the start, with our product and our 221 - > technology platform, it's it's one integration, so it's kind of 222 - > like not different teams speaking about stable coins, 223 - > different teams speaking about fiat. 224 - > Once you go on our platform, you get access to everything. 225 - > And then we have the you know, it's our own proprietary tech 226 - > that has that routing intelligence that if it makes 227 - > sense to send it via fiat, we'll send it via fiat.

228 - > If it makes sense to send it via stable coins, we'll do it 229 - > via stable coins. 230 - > Sasha Pilch: I think that's such an interesting point because 231 - > you know, treasury services is all about making the most of 232 - > your cash and not having idle cash, but waiting multiple days 233 - > because of banking hours for settlement is really eating into 234 - > that value that you could be gaining from making cash work 235 - > for you. 236 - > So being able to use Sokin to get the money there faster makes 237 - > a lot of sense.

238 - > Um, so stable coins for treasury make like is like seems 239 - > like the future. 240 - > Um it doesn't feel like many people are doing this. 241 - > So great to hear that Sokin is doing it. 242 - > I know like Airwell X is a big player in the market, doesn't 243 - > seem like they're doing it yet.

244 - > So can you double click on that a little bit? 245 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, look, for us, we're we're a 246 - > customer-obsessed company, so we're we're more bothered about 247 - > what our customers want and what their needs are and what their 248 - > desires are and what we see on the trends with our enterprise 249 - > clients that are sending money around and how we can make that 250 - > more efficient. 251 - > Using stablecoin for treasuries, like upgrading from 252 - > trucks to planes, right?

253 - > It's the same package, same destination. 254 - > It just means it's getting there faster, and that's kind of 255 - > how we view it. 256 - > I think a lot of people view it, start going down the whole 257 - > crypto sort of mindset, etc. 258 - > But actually, it's an efficiency, it's a rail, it's 259 - > needed for businesses.

260 - > It allows for weekend settlements, it allows for 261 - > post-5 pm settlements, and that's the efficiency that the 262 - > soaking platform brings to treasury teams around the world. 263 - > And we've gone in quite deep on this over the last 18 months to 264 - > two years, so it's not something that's quite new, and 265 - > this is why our business is doing, you know, we're the 266 - > fastest growing fintech in the world. 267 - > We're doing 100% year-on-year growth, uh, and we're 268 - > accelerating very fast globally because we've put that 269 - > infrastructure in place so we're not catching up, but more or 270 - > less setting the trend.

271 - > And for us, like I said, stable coins from a treasury 272 - > perspective is vital for our customer base. 273 - > And like I said, we're a customer that obsessed business, 274 - > and for us, it works really well. 275 - > Sasha Pilch: And can we talk through an example, like just to 276 - > bring it to life for the users? 277 - > So let's say you have a big enterprise customer in Germany 278 - > using token, and they have to send me they have to send money 279 - > to somewhere else in the world, or let you take it from here.

280 - > Can you talk about the flow of funds and how it's better than 281 - > the old way of doing things? 282 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, so look, like I said, our proprietary 283 - > tech has created almost like this hybrid sort of bridge of 284 - > rails. 285 - > So I can I can give you an example of live customers that 286 - > are kind of doing it at the moment. 287 - > So if a customer sends US dollars, for example, um, to 288 - > make it relevant to the North American market, and the 289 - > beneficiary is receiving MXN, our algorithms will decide 290 - > whether in real time whether stable coins are the fastest and 291 - > the cheapest way to move that value.

292 - > Neither side touches crypto, but we have that sort of 293 - > intelligence that can be able to do it. 294 - > On and off ramping is what's really difficult about stable 295 - > coins and understanding that. 296 - > Without local banking partners in sort of destination markets, 297 - > you're kind of defaulting to using Swift as a rail of payment 298 - > to the other side. 299 - > So what we've done is we've spent years building that sort 300 - > of banking partner network across like 170 countries that 301 - > makes this kind of real and allows us to do this switch 302 - > between what's quick and what's not.

303 - > There are some enterprise level customers where when we speak 304 - > to them, you know, what's more important for them, price or 305 - > speed. 306 - > Um, and there are some that speed is more important for them 307 - > because of the way that their businesses move. 308 - > And in that manner, if stable coins typically will be used 309 - > because of the fact that you can do this post-5 pm, you can send 310 - > it over weekends and so on. 311 - > But yeah, look, US to Latam, US to Southeast Asia, cross-border 312 - > payroll in markets, you know, this is where the bridging of 313 - > stable coins works really well.

314 - > And using the Soking platform really helps um companies do 315 - > that. 316 - > Sasha Pilch: And just from my own understanding, when wouldn't 317 - > stablecoin win? 318 - > Because it seems like the most efficient and cost-effective 319 - > path every time. 320 - > So just like from my own understanding, and to educate 321 - > some of the listeners that may have the same question.

322 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, of course. 323 - > Uh yeah, absolutely. 324 - > Look, we did we did a uh we're we're part of an RFP at the 325 - > moment in which um two emerging markets, um Brazil and Nigeria, 326 - > um, were big topic of conversation in in terms of 327 - > settlement. 328 - > One, stable coins was cheaper, one, the fiat route was cheaper.

329 - > So it it it like I said, it depends on what enterprises want 330 - > to do, if it's speed of settlement or it's price. 331 - > And that's the beauty of us as a company, and I keep saying it, 332 - > because the hybrid solution that we've kind of built, it 333 - > allows companies to have that flexibility of knowing speed or 334 - > price, whichever one they want to focus on. 335 - > But essentially it still goes back to helping the treasury 336 - > teams within those that those organizations, the CFOs, the 337 - > reconciliation work that kind of goes on in that.

338 - > And I think that's been a miss in the industry for quite a 339 - > while. 340 - > I don't think, like I said, our platform speaks to Treasury 341 - > platforms, it speaks to payment gateways, so all of it's kind of 342 - > interconnected. 343 - > So if something's settling on a Soken account, it will 344 - > naturally play a part on the treasury platforms that kind of 345 - > help these companies. 346 - > So yeah, it's it's great, but it's still in adoptive phase at 347 - > the moment.

348 - > So I think we're very early in that, and that's why some routes 349 - > tip fiat's better, some routes stable coins are better. 350 - > But like I said, our responsibility is to give our 351 - > customers a choice and give them the ability for efficiency. 352 - > Otherwise, like I said, we've got an infrastructure, it's got 353 - > local rails, naturally it's got Swift. 354 - > We've now provided another option on top of all of that 355 - > that allows companies to move faster.

356 - > Sasha Pilch: And it's great to see you've hired some of the top 357 - > talent in the industry, like in Eccles, who I know back from 358 - > when he was at Paynear and then Airwolx, and now you have him at 359 - > Sokan. 360 - > So um, you know, it's really like evidence to the fact that 361 - > you guys are the Treasury platform management service of 362 - > the future. 363 - > So I'm really excited to see how you expand globally. 364 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah.

365 - > Yeah, we look we hire best in class. 366 - > So we're a company that's scaling, like I said, we're 367 - > we're doing 120% year on year. 368 - > Um we're probably we're at 100 million in ARR, we'll probably 369 - > be at 150, 200 quite easily over the next 10 months. 370 - > Um, so for us, it's important to get the best in each market.

371 - > Um, and I believe we've got a really strong team globally. 372 - > Um, not even the guys that we're just hiring, but you know, 373 - > our attrition rates are less than 4%. 374 - > So everyone loves working at SoCid, so because everyone has 375 - > the same vision of what we want to do and we want to help 376 - > businesses scale without friction. 377 - > Sasha Pilch: That's great.

378 - > And can you talk a little bit about the types of customers 379 - > that you've been acquiring and where they're headquartered? 380 - > Is it like truly global? 381 - > Is it more US heavy considering you're in Miami usually? 382 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, so so look, 60, 60% of our revenue that we 383 - > generate is in North America, um, especially in the US market.

384 - > Um, what we're finding, especially on the embedded 385 - > product, is a lot of customers are coming to Sokin now because 386 - > of that, one stack, one integration, one solution, you 387 - > can go live pretty much. 388 - > If you have a development team, you could pretty much go live 389 - > with it on over a weekend. 390 - > But also what we're finding on the direct side, on the 391 - > enterprise selling side, is companies are going more global 392 - > and they are having efficiency issues more than pricing issues, 393 - > I would say.

394 - > I think they want to look for solutions that can help archaic 395 - > systems that they've been using. 396 - > And look, no one's going to leave their ERP systems that 397 - > they've been using for like 30, 40 years. 398 - > So we've been able to almost, you know, like a Chrome plugin, 399 - > plug into those ERP systems that actually makes it really 400 - > efficient and really a light lift for a lot of those 401 - > companies. 402 - > And I think there's a lot of appreciation for that, at the 403 - > same time, delivering a global service which has been missing 404 - > in the market for a very long time.

405 - > Sasha Pilch: And um, when I worked at RAMP, we definitely 406 - > connected with all of the ERPs in the US, like QuickBooks and 407 - > Zero for the smaller guys, and then Sage Intact, NetSuite, um, 408 - > SAP for the bigger guys, any other integrations that you can 409 - > talk through US and externally that you connect with? 410 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, absolutely. 411 - > On the enterprise level side, it's Oracle, JD Edwards, SAP, 412 - > um, NetSuite, as you mentioned, Microsoft Dynamics, Xero, 413 - > QuickBooks, Sage, pretty pretty pretty much the full suite of 414 - > ERP platforms.

415 - > And I think the beauty about Soakin is on the direct side, 416 - > when we're dealing with enterprise in mid-tier above who 417 - > might be using Oracle, you know, SAP, um and some of the 418 - > bigger ERP systems, we've still got an embedded product. 419 - > So if we are dealing with guys who have got SMB customers who 420 - > are integrated into Agent Zero, they have access accessibility 421 - > to those treasury integrations as well. 422 - > So actually they're helping their end customers with bank 423 - > accounts that can go the full way.

424 - > So that's the beauty. 425 - > We can touch the SMB side as well, although on the direct 426 - > side we focus more on enterprise and mid-tier. 427 - > But on the embedded side, we've definitely got a solution that 428 - > kind of is is favorable for everyone. 429 - > Sasha Pilch: And 26 currencies in 170, oh sorry, yeah, 20 in 430 - > 170 countries.

431 - > So how did you go about this? 432 - > Have you got direct deals with all of these different 433 - > providers? 434 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, so we've got a really big licensing 435 - > footprint around the world. 436 - > Um, and I would say this is becoming a moat for the business 437 - > versus AI right now.

438 - > And I think a lot of people, a lot of businesses are looking to 439 - > scale very quickly and are realizing the licensing and 440 - > regulatory headaches that it is and the time it takes, more so 441 - > the time it takes. 442 - > And we've cited all of these applications four or five years 443 - > ago. 444 - > So those EMI licenses, um, the banking licenses that we're 445 - > going after as well in in a few countries, you know, these are 446 - > all helping the infrastructure at the end of the day.

447 - > For us, we want to be closest to the rails so that companies 448 - > can have full visibility of all of their transactions going 449 - > through for their business, all the way through to the ERP, all 450 - > the way to payment acceptance. 451 - > And that's why licenses for us are really important and we'll 452 - > we'll always we'll double down on it on it in every market 453 - > going forward. 454 - > Um, but allows us to essentially sell the product 455 - > that we are at at the efficiency that we are as well.

456 - > Sasha Pilch: Congrats on that. 457 - > Like it's so hard to get these licenses and being able to have 458 - > so many, you know, that has taken four or five years to get 459 - > is really a true moat compared to other competitors. 460 - > And I'm sure when you were fundraising, VCs loved that 461 - > aspect. 462 - > Um, can you talk a little bit about some of the investors that 463 - > you have on your cap table that have been helpful in growing 464 - > SOCAN?

465 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, I appreciate your comments on 466 - > that. 467 - > I think I think a lot of a lot of effort goes goes to the 468 - > unsung heroes of the business sometimes, you know, the 469 - > compliance and operations team. 470 - > I think everyone loves seeing revenue growth and go to market, 471 - > but sometimes there are other teams in the business as well 472 - > that are equally contributing for us to be successful on that 473 - > on that top line. 474 - > Um look, we've got some amazing, amazing backers, I 475 - > think, from from Series A, with Morgan Stanley coming in for the 476 - > business, especially when we were more enterprise and 477 - > mid-tier focused.

478 - > I think that that did a lot for our credibility. 479 - > Um BlackRock were involved from a funding level as well, and 480 - > then Prism Capital as well in our Series B who who led that. 481 - > They've been super helpful. 482 - > And 90% of our cap table is actually based in the US as 483 - > well.

484 - > So this is why we have such a big US footprint. 485 - > And it's almost like we've we're making US our home. 486 - > Um, and and we have been making our home now, um, especially on 487 - > the West Coast and the East Coast. 488 - > So it's great to be you know involved with a lot of the AI 489 - > businesses, especially in the Valley, um, who are looking at 490 - > payment and you know, stable coins are basically the find the 491 - > foundation for like a gen tech treasury.

492 - > So, and we're at the forefront of that. 493 - > And we're right in the mix. 494 - > So yeah, investors have been super, super helpful. 495 - > And then obviously there's a lot of family offices that have 496 - > been part of it for make capital and so on.

497 - > Um, and that have been part of the business and have been 498 - > driving the growth as well over the last few years. 499 - > Sasha Pilch: It's really impressive to hear like Morgan 500 - > Stanley, BlackRock on your cap table. 501 - > Um, one of my clients is Turnkey, it's a stablecoin 502 - > wallet infrastructure provider, and I've been working with them 503 - > to help them get in front of a lot of traditional financial 504 - > institutions. 505 - > And it's exciting that in the like 10 years that I was in 506 - > banking and the 10 years that I've been in FinTech, finally 507 - > now it seems like the big financial institutions are 508 - > really listening to stablecoin and like getting involved.

509 - > So it feels like the future is like really here, which is 510 - > exciting. 511 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, it's great. 512 - > And we we have great banking relationships with all the banks 513 - > around the world. 514 - > And I think us having you know a couple on the cap table as 515 - > well helps.

516 - > But um, you know, yes, there's challenges from a technology 517 - > perspective, and I think a lot of the people working at these 518 - > banks understand those frustrations, but the banks love 519 - > us, we love the banks, it's working quite well, the 520 - > relationships and and and our responsibility is to drive as 521 - > much volume as possible, I guess. 522 - > Sasha Pilch: Awesome. 523 - > Um, well, we're actually nearly at time. 524 - > This went really fast.

525 - > So um uh before I ask the last few questions, is there anything 526 - > that I haven't covered that you really want the listeners to 527 - > know that token is doing? 528 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, look, I I think I've talked about it 529 - > enough over over the over over this chat. 530 - > But like I said, for us, for yeah, stablecoins is all about 531 - > treasury modern modernisation. 532 - > Um sometimes you know people get lost in the idea of 533 - > stablecoins changing everything.

534 - > I don't think it's it's quite there yet, but offering another 535 - > option is is kind of key. 536 - > And as I said, our platform has been built for scaling up 537 - > businesses without friction. 538 - > And on the on the enterprise level side for customers, if 539 - > they're out there listening, they want an option where you've 540 - > got a fiat, you've got a stablecoin, you can decide your 541 - > treasury teams have the knowledge of what they want to 542 - > do with a go-to platform for that.

543 - > And if you're an embedded platform that wants to scale up 544 - > and go global as soon as possible, we can probably get 545 - > you live over a weekend if you've got the developers in 546 - > place. 547 - > So, yeah, it's a it's an exciting business to be part of, 548 - > and and and we love all the clients that are kind of using 549 - > Sokin at the moment and onwards and upwards. 550 - > Sasha Pilch: Such a fast implementation time, which is 551 - > such a great thing about new age fintechs compared to the legacy 552 - > players, and the fact that you're also offering these 553 - > treasury solutions alongside the e-commerce aspect.

554 - > What is the split between how many customers like 555 - > approximately are using you just for treasury versus both 556 - > Treasury and the e-commerce? 557 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, so I would I would say 90% of the customers 558 - > are using us for Treasury. 559 - > Absolutely. 560 - > Um we have just announced our partnership with Adian uh in the 561 - > market um over the last couple of months.

562 - > So the e-commerce uptake is is kind of growing, but the element 563 - > of where we do payment acceptance on invoicing and AP, 564 - > that has been that has been in place for the last two, three 565 - > years. 566 - > So all of the customers coming on to Sokin traditionally in the 567 - > past were coming on for global accounts because they wanted 568 - > access to be able to accept money and send money. 569 - > And in the past, I think a lot were pleasantly supplied 570 - > surprised with the sort of the treasury implementations that we 571 - > kind of had.

572 - > Now people are becoming more aware of it. 573 - > So they're coming to us because they need automation. 574 - > And you know, we're in a time right now where AI is there, 575 - > stable coins are there, and we can move at speed because our 576 - > tech stack has been built that way. 577 - > Um so we haven't got 15, 16 years of old tech stack that we 578 - > have to replace you know completely move away from and 579 - > replace.

580 - > We we're kind of we're kind of moving with the time. 581 - > So if something changes tomorrow, you know, I'll bet we 582 - > could do that within a day or two days or whatever it will be 583 - > with the technology team that we've got in place. 584 - > And that's really the most exciting thing. 585 - > So it like I said, the space is really exciting right now, and 586 - > I think everyone's appreciating the licensing moat naturally 587 - > with payment companies.

588 - > But yeah, we're really looking forward to the future. 589 - > Sasha Pilch: And you mentioned, you know, a lot of employees are 590 - > in the US, it's really the home of Soken on both the East Coast 591 - > and the West Coast. 592 - > Are you guys hiring right now? 593 - > You mentioned like your top talent in the team.

594 - > Is this one that like when listeners are thinking about 595 - > their next move, they should be applying it so can yeah, 596 - > absolutely. 597 - > Vroon Modgill: I think you know, obviously, I'm gonna speak well 598 - > for my company, but you know, I think the attrition rates speak 599 - > for itself. 600 - > Like I said, less than like 5% attrition rates within the 601 - > company. 602 - > We're at 250 employees right now.

603 - > We'll probably finish the year at sort of 350. 604 - > Obviously, AI adoption is changing the operational, you 605 - > know, operational flow of the business, and it's quite 606 - > natural. 607 - > I think everyone's kind of looking at it, but you know, 608 - > we've got an amazing team in place, like I said, from from 609 - > the front-end sales guys to all the way through through the 610 - > operational guys, the compliance guys, even our talent team are 611 - > recruiting.

612 - > Everyone is contributing to the growth of uh and the success of 613 - > the business. 614 - > And I think, like I said, companies that do well, values 615 - > kind of resonate from top to bottom, and I think that's kind 616 - > of where we, me and the SMT make a big effort. 617 - > And I think the great thing is that a lot of us pivoted or were 618 - > part of the business that kind of pivoted. 619 - > Um, so we've seen the ups and downs, and and we we've been 620 - > there, you know, in the trenches, as they say, um, to 621 - > get to where we are today.

622 - > Sasha Pilch: Great, and I love that you gave the compliance 623 - > team a shout out, like the you know, there's the unswung heroes 624 - > a lot of the time in the background, but they've created 625 - > the moat that got all the VCs excited and set you guys ahead 626 - > with the competitive advantage. 627 - > So shout out to the compliance people. 628 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, absolutely. 629 - > Sasha Pilch: Um, usually I ask what is your favorite book, and 630 - > you can do personal or professional.

631 - > Um, but you don't have to answer that if you don't want 632 - > to. 633 - > I can give you another question. 634 - > So up to you. 635 - > Vroon Modgill: No, no, happy, happy to happy to follow the 636 - > trend.

637 - > So um, look, personally, everyone knows, and and we we've 638 - > done it in the business, but I'm a big um, as they say, 639 - > America, a soccer fan. 640 - > So um, you know, I'm a big uh Manchester United fan as well. 641 - > And naturally, on the personal level, you know, reading books 642 - > of uh Sir Alex Ferguson, who used who was the greatest 643 - > manager in the Premier League, um, and how his leadership 644 - > skills and how he went through 25 years or whatever it was at 645 - > at one of the biggest clubs, is it's always great to hear that 646 - > management style because obviously we go through 647 - > different levels of stages as as managers in SMTs.

648 - > You know, you you go from bootstrapping where you're 649 - > pretty much doing everything to now having a team of 250 where 650 - > you can't do everything, so you kind of have to learn very 651 - > quickly. 652 - > And I think there's a book that always sticks sticks sticks 653 - > with me when I you know when I practice as an accountant and I 654 - > was kind of thinking about the future and the next thing I want 655 - > to do. 656 - > And there's a book I read called What They Don't Teach You 657 - > at Harvard Business School, um, and it was by Mark McCormack, 658 - > and and the whole book was around the idea of how business 659 - > schools teach you about the analytical side of things and 660 - > and they don't really teach you about how to be street smart and 661 - > the interpersonal sort of instinct of relationships.

662 - > And I think the reason why Token does so well is because I 663 - > think some of that teachings that I have for my for my 664 - > migrant parents of of you know selling and building those 665 - > relationships to get things done, I think kind of resonates 666 - > with our business, and this is why so many enterprises like 667 - > working with us because they feel like we're truly with them 668 - > rather than just trying to make you know a spread on an FX rate 669 - > or something like that.

670 - > And I think those two books kind of really kind of hit home 671 - > with me and and and and and kind of have helped me in my sort of 672 - > business life as well. 673 - > Sasha Pilch: Excellent recommendations, and I totally 674 - > agree with that, like um being a part true partner to your 675 - > customers rather than like in an ivory tower saying, Oh, this is 676 - > the the service that we're offering. 677 - > Um I'm from Australia and I moved to New York as a like 678 - > foreign person as well, so I totally get the hustle aspect to 679 - > it.

680 - > Um when did you move from the UK to the US? 681 - > Vroon Modgill: So I moved about four years ago. 682 - > Um, yeah, so I moved about four years ago. 683 - > I moved to Toronto actually, so North America, but yeah, yeah, 684 - > I'm still part of the region.

685 - > So yeah, it's been a great move. 686 - > Sasha Pilch: And with the Sir Alex Ferguson book, anything in 687 - > particular from his management style that you've taken and 688 - > implemented into your leadership at Sogan? 689 - > Vroon Modgill: I think it's appreciating change. 690 - > I think when you're when you're kind of as as a manager, he was 691 - > he managed over like a 25-year period, so and it was going 692 - > through the acceleration of obviously the Premier League to 693 - > what it has become now, and you have different characters and 694 - > different times and trends, and I'm kind of getting a crash 695 - > course and a real-time version of that.

696 - > When I started my business, it was all about fintech and 697 - > payments. 698 - > Then COVID hit, and everyone was like, the world's going to 699 - > end, and it didn't quite end, and then it was going through 700 - > wars, and you know, even us as a business, we you know, we've 701 - > been going through the AI changes, the stablecoin changes, 702 - > and being up to date with that. 703 - > And you know, what's testament to the companies? 704 - > You know, we raised 150 million last year and with in a year 705 - > where fintech investments went down 30%.

706 - > I think great businesses are always going to raise money, and 707 - > I think we're very much in that category right now. 708 - > Um, and it's great to see the amount of attention that the 709 - > company is getting, not only from VCs, but more importantly 710 - > for us, it's customers, right? 711 - > So we want the attention with the customers, it helps us grow, 712 - > it helps us grow as a product, it helps us grow as a company. 713 - > Um, and that's what's most exciting.

714 - > It's not, and and we've never been a business that's just gone 715 - > to market just to raise money. 716 - > So um it's it's it's a great position to be in. 717 - > Sasha Pilch: Awesome, great. 718 - > Well, we're at time now, so I'll finish.

719 - > But um, thank you so much, Rune. 720 - > This was awesome. 721 - > Vroon Modgill: Yeah, thank you. 722 - > Sasha Pilch: I'm so happy I got to learn more about what you're 723 - > doing.

724 - > It's so impressive and looking forward to seeing you continue 725 - > to thrive. 726 - > Vroon Modgill: Amazing, thanks, Sasha. 727 - > Appreciate it.