This Just In Radio: Personal Keys to Success and the Importance of Mentoring with Dr. Kamal Jethwani

Speaker A: Welcome to this Justin the show, bringing you the latest advancements in healthcare strategy, innovation and public policy. And now, for the fastest voice in healthcare, here's your host, Justin Barnes. Hello, everyone, and welcome to this special edition of this Justin Radio. I'm your host, Justin Barnes. Today we're broadcasting live from Tampa, Florida and the Moffitt Cancer Center. We have a very special show as our next installment in our cancer innovation series. Many thanks to longtime friends Dr. Kamal Jaithwani and Dr. Ninish Parikh for the invitation and opportunity to be here. We're about to embark on a series of episodes focused on cancer care innovation, patient outcomes and survivorship. I hope you find all these episodes as enlightening, as encouraging as me. Welcome back to this Justin radio show, broadcasting live from the Tampa Palms Country Club and Moffitt Cancer Center. I'm, um, very excited to be back with my good friend Kamal Jathwani from Moffitt Cancer center and also the CEO of Acceleranc. Um, we're gonna do a personal segment now, kind of get into some of our keys to success and also the importance of mentoring, which I know near and dear to your heart. So before we get in too deep, um, take us back to the beginning. You know, what was the moment, the person or the decision that put you on the path that eventually led to where you are today?

Speaker B: Uh, I started medical school very early in life, um, and we do that. I grew up in India, so we do that a lot there. Uh, it's not unusual, but I think by the time I came, um, into myself, um, I realized that my interests were a lot more population, um, level, broader, and that individual patient care was not. Was fun and exciting, but was not all that I wanted to do. Um, and so I think in my mind, sort of, you know, middle of medical school, towards the end of medical school, I started to dabble a lot in research, a lot in global health. Um, and that's where I truly found the passion of figuring out how to make care accessible to the masses as something that I wanted to do for the rest of my life. Um, and some, you know, experiences were foundational for that. Uh, while I was training in medical school, we had a huge, uh, terrorist attack in Bombay that ended up, uh, sending a bunch of patients to our hospital that we were not prepared for. And I was part of the team that was managing that, uh, from the front lines. And that was just a very different way, um, to operate and think about problem solving, which I thought was really interesting. Um, and then when I was, uh, Training here at Harvard. We uh, got sent to India to do a project around village healthcare workers using digital technologies. And I came back with the belief that digital is going to be the way that we solve this, um, and that we need to figure out the humans around it, but that digital is the, is the savior. Um, and so combining all those different experiences I think have shaped my career in the way that it's gone.

Speaker A: Love it. When we first met in 2017 at the Health innovation think tank, where were you? I know you're in Boston, was it? We were in math general at the time. Okay, what was your focus there?

Speaker B: So I was leading digital innovation there. So the idea was how do I bring in digital tools and innovation into the hospital. So I was more outside in um, and really trying to figure out how do we solve those problems with tools that were created outside, but also doing a lot of co development and co creation with pharma companies. So coming together, figuring out the problems. And then I had a team that was actually developing solutions and deploying these solutions inside. Um, and then I also had a clinical trials team that was generating research and data on the efficacy of digital health. Because back in the day, uh, people asked me prove to me that it works. Nobody asked me that today, which is great. So, so we put ourselves out of a job. Um, but those days we were really focused on proving that there is actually value in digital.

Speaker A: Yep. Love that. Most people at the top of their field can point to one pivotal professional risk that they took that could have gone either way. What was yours? And looking back, what made you take it?

Speaker B: So the big risk was to not focus on my clinical career as my career linchpin. Um, you know, after spending years and years in training, that is a very scary thing to do. And uh, m. I remember this one point. Um, I spent a few weeks where I was doing clinical care for one to two days a week and I was doing non clinicals for like about two or three days a week. And I remember having a conversation with a friend on a Sunday, very excited about the week to come because that was my only week that was going to be fully non clinical. And at the end of the conversation he asked me, he's like, so the one week you're really excited about is the week you don't see patients. And that other weeks you kind of like wake up on a Monday and Tuesday and you're kind of like lukewarm. And I was like, oh yeah, it is that, right? It is like what brings me joy and what brings Me, energy. Um, and I kind of had to follow that. Yep.

Speaker A: No, I think it's great. I mean, that obviously is a significant risk as a doctor on all that training and investment and then kind of pivoting, praying at that point, because. Yeah. And the reason I want to ask these questions and have this conversation is there's a lot of people who are going through this, and sometimes you go through the motions and you just kind of go one path for one reason. Other could be you have some passion at the time, or that's the direction your family wants you to go. There's lots of different influences and reasons, but at the end of the day, passion is what. Where our success comes from and.

Speaker B: And joy. Right. Like, I wake up every day to day, even in the most stressful days, and I actually really enjoy what I do. And that's, uh, same here. That's hard.

Speaker A: Absolutely. What does success mean to you today, and how has that definition changed from when you first were starting out?

Speaker B: Uh, if I were to be honest.

Speaker A: Please.

Speaker B: Um, I think over the years it has gone from quantifiable success. Right. So think about all the ways we quantify our success. Number of people reporting to me, amount of money I'm making, profits, blah, blah, blah. 2. I think now more, um, I would call it subjective ways of measuring success. I really think about impact a lot. I really think about, um, you know, a number of things I have done or, um, legacy creation. Right. Where I'm thinking about what have I done that'll actually carry through the test of time.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Um, and if I haven't done that, yeah, I've done something to make money, but it's not necessarily what's going to change the world. So I think that becomes really important. And when I start to think about things where, you know, people are getting access even a couple of days early to things or, you know, that have. I've put in a system in place that maybe is. Has lasted beyond my span in that organization. I think those things get more exciting for me.

Speaker A: Absolutely. I love that. So pivoting a little bit to key success in business and in life, uh, if you had to distill your professional approach down to two or three principles that you generally live by, not the things that you say in interviews, but the things that you actually drive your decisions, what would they be?

Speaker B: So the first thing is, um, I'm learning this more about myself now, but I don't shy away from things that are hard. And so if there is something that someone's telling me, they're like, that's the stupidest thing, because it's going to be so much work. Doesn't bother me. Uh, it should, but it doesn't.

Speaker A: It could be painful.

Speaker B: And so I do end up spending a lot of time doing things, um, that are really, really hard to do. And eventually you win some, you lose some. But hard, um, work doesn't scare me. Um, and maybe I need to be more strategic about that. But I think it's been a good principle to live by because I'm not finding shortcuts. I'm actually doing it the hard way. I think that's important. The second thing is relationships. Um, it's a small industry. It's a small world. But more importantly than that, a lot of what you're doing in life and how you're changing things is going to be based on people working well together. And so I think relationships are really important. I am proud to say that I have people in my team, for example, that have lived with me for all these years. And I usually say if I call them after killing someone, they'll come in with a shovel without no questions asked. Right? Um, you need that in your life. You need relationships. Um, and I think that building relationships and maintaining relationships is really important. Again, it's a principle I live by. I need to get. I mean, everyone needs to get better at that at all times. And I work really hard on it. But, um, that is something that I think is important. And I think the third. If I had to do three, um, the third one is, um, I think investing in talent and building people up. Um, I often say when I started my own company, I. After Mass General, right, I went away from an organization that had a huge brand name that people worked at just so that their career would be helped to. Then moving to an organization that nobody had heard of. And I got spoiled for the first 15 years of my career getting any talent I wanted because I was part of Mass General. Harvard, right? So when I started my own company, I knew that I needed a different special reason to bring people to get excited to work for our mission. That's right. Um, and the way you do that is you find the diamonds, uh, on the rough, and then you groom them and you build them because you will never get someone who's ready for the job day one in a small company. And I follow that principle till today. I don't think we've still, till today, had a person that's been ready for the job on day one. But you figure out the potential that they have. And then you spend the time and energy building them up. Um, and once you do that, then you have loyalty for life.

Speaker A: Absolutely. No. And I love that I don't take a moment here because you, you talk about hard work critically, um, important, uh, certainly nowadays when we think we can just, you know, type in AI and spits out all these great stuff. And um, while that is awesome, it's transforming our lives and we all love still comes down to hard work, um, and not shying away. And he reminds me of Jake and I. We got up here earlier yesterday, um, to get to begin to prep for, for today and tomorrow. And we still, we thought we almost had the day done. We still sat and crunched out two more hours of work last night because we had some really important things. We didn't. It was some very tedious work that we didn't want to and not, not to do, not to be here, but on the different side of the company. But we did the real hard work. And I don't shy. Same thing. I don't. I take the time as I take an extra hour or two at times. And it's really important. And I don't think people do that as much anymore. You brought it up as one of your pivotal principles and I want to, you know, certainly underscore that. And then, um, relationships, it's everything for me at this point in my career. It. Everything my whole entire life is now all about relationships. And I only work with people, um, even inside the radio show, but then outside in my own growth performance company. People that I've known for 10, 15, 20, 30 years. Because there's. You can run fast with people that you know and that you trust and then that trust you and you can break through so we don't again. And uh, I kind of take this special time to call this out because this is so important for people who, you know, it doesn't matter your age, 15, 20, 30, 40. Relationships are your future. So. And if you want to have an easier future or you know, a better glide path, focus on that. Don't turn and burn. Um, and your, your, your word is your bond and that builds relationships and those kind of components and so, and obviously investing. I, yeah, I think I've had, um, at any given time, um, 15 to 30 interns working with me m. At different points in my career. And now a lot of them are CEOs. Um, you know, it's kind of cool seeing them 30 years later. Um, and even, you know, my producer and right hand guy, Jake, I met Jake when he was 22, and now he's 26, 27. He's getting old. Um, but, yeah, so it's, you know, it's almost five years, uh, of great success, so. Totally agree with you. I love that. So, um, healthcare and oncology innovation require an unusual combination of scientific rigor, institutional collaboration, and entrepreneurial urgency. How do you hold all of that together without losing momentum?

Speaker B: Yeah, I love that question. Um, I think that the one thing my clinical degree did give me was the credibility to have the conversations internally. Right. And so when you're innovating from inside a health system, I think when you can shortcut it and actually talk to the frontline workers in a way that they understand, I think that helps you a lot. Right. Um, I think my personal entrepreneurial momentum and urgency came from the fact that I started my company bootstrapped.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. I, um, had to make money to be able to spend money. Um, so it's not the typical VC way to do it. Do it. And so every single day, every single week. Couldn't, Couldn't miss a revenue goal. Because if I would miss a revenue goal, I would miss payroll.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: And so I think the first few years of going through that churn has really given me that sense of, like, now, even if I have raised money, I don't operate as if I have. It is all as if, you know, I'm running a grocery store pretty much. Right. It's like, that's kind of how you have to operate. Um, and I think that sense of urgency is really cool. Um, and I think it percolates to the team. I think the team enjoys it. Um, and yes, it creates a little bit of stress and work. But, you know, we operate on a daily or weekly timeline, not on a monthly or quarterly timeline, which is true for many health systems and pharma companies.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Margins.

Speaker B: Exactly. And so, you know, when you're saying, okay, like, I need to accomplish this in the next seven days or five days, um, that starts to bring a different level of, you know, urgency, but also competence.

Speaker A: That's Right.

Speaker B: In the team. Right. Um, and I think that that's really cool. And I like to set pretty aggressive goals from a timeline perspective because that helps you maintain momentum and that helps you get, you know, energy out there. And that energy sort of percolates and I think gets addictive. So, um, now my team asks me, it's like, okay, you know, what is our next, like, super aggressive deadline? We could put on this because it's fun to be able to Operate that, achieve that and then move forward.

Speaker A: Yep. So kind of follow on there. Every high achiever has a discipline or habit that most people around them do not fully see. What is yours and the thing that you consistently, um, that has paid the biggest dividends over time.

Speaker B: I wish I had like a straightforward, clear answer, like wake up at 5 or whatever. I don't, I don't do any of that. Um, um, I think it's probably going to be a boring answer, but I think, um, spend the time with your people. Um, I think that's really it. And I noticed that about myself. When I do that well and I do that consistently, I see consistently good outcomes. When I stop doing that because of whatever reason I'm traveling too much, I'm too busy or are mentally occupied, I see things sort of splitting at the seams.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Um, and so that's been, my lesson is like, how do I consistently spend the time with my team, with my people, to make sure that they're equipped with what they need and that we're sort of circulating ideas. Right. And I'm listening, they're listening. And then we're sort of moving things forward.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean the whole adage, you want to run fast, um, run alone, if you want to run far, run with others, you know. Yeah. So very important. Happiness. Let's dive over to. Let us talk about happiness. Not just professional fulfillment, but genuinely feeling good about your life. What does it look like for you and how intentional you are. Are you about protecting it?

Speaker B: That's a great question. And, and I've had to think, um, about this a lot. Um, because I think society tells you happiness comes in a certain format. Right. And so you're married, you have kids, you have a good job, you have good money, you have a nice house, you go travel twice a year. Cookie cutter happiness. And I feel like that has never spoken to me. And I think that I've had to start to think about this a lot more deeply again. More recently I got divorced. Um, and I'm living mostly alone. Um, and I have a job that keeps me very busy. And so in those realities, really thinking about what is it like, what is happiness and what does that even mean? And I think starting to think about that has been really interesting. Um, I know I like to do certain things. I know I like to have time to think. I know I like to process. Um, and so giving myself the grace and the time to do that, I think that's where I'm starting. Excellent. M I, I need to get better at protecting it. I, um, have been in on that journey and getting there, but I definitely need to still get better at protecting it.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's. It's, um. It's something that I had to learn. I think when we sold the Greenway the. For our first big company, um, you had kind of this financial. And then you're like, wait a second. This did not. I'm not achieving or this is not feel the way I thought I was going to feel. This is the pinnacle I've been working on for 12 years straight. Um, had some of the other check boxes, but then when it wasn't there, um, it kind of made me rethink about the whole thing of. You think about, you have all these societal checkboxes and, oh, you achieved all that. But that doesn't quite bring it there. And then when you cross over, I think 40, you begin to look at, you know, hey, I have, you know, 40, 50, maybe 60 good years left. Um, hopefully 50 or 60 good years, but, um, what do you want? And so I actually went through a divorce too. Um, very intentionally, just because I wanted. I wanted my future to look different than my past. And. And so. And now m. I'm extremely, um, intentional about protecting what I have because I went through a lot to get there.

Speaker B: So what is happiness for you?

Speaker A: I'm sorry?

Speaker B: What is happiness for you? One line.

Speaker A: Um, peace. One word. To be honest. Peace. Um, I work very hard at boundaries. And, um, everything we talked about before on, you know, hard work, relationships, investment, other people, that's all critical to me, having peace, to be honest, because when I do those, the right things, even though you laid them out, I also agree with them 100%. I. That gives me peace. So I think for me. And then I. I protect it by intentionally seeking peace. Now, peace does come from conflict. I'll create conflict to create peace. But that's not intentional. That just as it has to happen.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, I love. I love that. And the one thing I'll say is, I've started this now about four or five months ago, and I like it. But I do one thing a week that brings me joy.

Speaker A: There you go.

Speaker B: That, you know, it's just. It's just like pure, unadulterated joy. Good can be anything.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Any cost.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. No, really important. Yeah. You learn that later in life, too. That's excellent. Love that there is a version of success that looks great from the outside, but cost people their health, their relationships, or their sense of self. Have you ever been close to that line? And if so what made you pull back?

Speaker B: Oh, all of it, 100%, all the time.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, I, it's happened. And, and you know, again, you left, you let yourself go at the cost and at the cost of your health. You're focused on other things and optimizing other parts of your life. I think that. And you said this. Well, right. Like when you turn that page on 40 is when you start to realize that those things start to impact you a lot more than they used to. Right. Like I be able to get over it much faster when I was 35. Right. Not anymore. Um, and so once you realize that your recovery is not that good and that it's starting to also then impact your work and it's starting to impact your health in significant ways. Like, I'm not thinking as clearly.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: I'm not as aware, I'm not as attentive. Right. And so I think those were the things that made me focus back on my health and then also realizing that at the end of the day that's my biggest asset is, is my health and well being and it's not the money in the bank. It's just going to sit there and grow. Whatever. Um, I don't get to see it or enjoy it as much.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: Um, but my real asset is my health. Um, and if I don't focus on it, nobody else will.

Speaker A: Right? Yeah. And I, I think let's take a point there because that's a real critical part of my long, my short term happiness. My long term happiness. But really important to talk about his health. And people again are not taking this as seriously as they need to. Um, our country can't afford it. I promise you that at these rising, the rate of the rising costs. But you as a, as a citizen, you as a, as a person on this planet need to look at that because you do cross over. I mean, I think it hit me when I was 41 or 40. I'm an avid runner. And when I was 40 or 41, I hurt my leg. Um, and I did not quite heal. Maybe it was 45, I couldn't heal as fast. And I'm like, whoa, whoa. It took me like three months to heal from a little twisted ankle. Three months. I couldn't run. I'm like, I used to heal at 35 or 30. I would heal right up in two weeks. Almost three months to heal. So that's when I think that's when I started to shift a lot. Like, wait a second. So that means if I Can feel that little bit. There's other parts of me, um, that I needed to change.

Speaker B: I also think about the irreversibility of some of this. Right, Absolutely. So when I see patients with cancer and the last three years have made this really real for me. Right. Seeing people in their 40s get to that point of irreversibility. Right. And then you start with the whole, like, I wish I had. Oh my God, like, that's just so scary. Um, I lost my dad very early. My dad was diagnosed with glioblastoma at 56 and he was a workaholic, like all the way through. Right. 7am to midnight every single day. No breaks, no Sundays, nothing. And he always said to me, he's like, you know, when I turn 60. Oh, no, never turn 60.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And don't want that for myself.

Speaker A: Right. No. That's wise wisdom there. So you transition to our next point. So you work in oncology means you're close to suffering, you know, patients, families, hard diagnosis. How do you sustain your own well being and sense of purpose in the face of all that year after year? And you've been in, you know, clinical care for now, 30 years or so or.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, honestly, like being an innovation, the benefit of that is like, you're, uh, always glass half full. Right. Like, I wake up every morning telling people the art of possible and not the opposite. And so even, even when I'm dealing with patients that have a lot going on, I'm always looking for solutions. And so like, the problem solving aspect of it keeps, keeps me in the positive side. And then the other side of it is like the having seen that side of irreversibility is almost motivating to be like, dude, got to take care of yourself. And I never want to be in the situation where I'm like, I wish I had.

Speaker A: Right, right, absolutely. Great point. So what's the importance of mentoring? We'll shift that to kind of close in that area. Think about the mentors, um, that shaped your life the most. What did they do specifically and did that make, you know, what difference did that make, you know? And what do you carry forward with those from those thoughts?

Speaker B: Yeah, I, I had a unique, um, career trajectory where I was in jobs and roles where I was usually the youngest of my peer group because we go to med school very early in India. Right. So I graduated med school at 21. And most people in this country don't even start med school at that point. Right. So when I came in here and I was doing these jobs, I was Significantly younger. What that meant was like I had less professional maturity. Mhm. Um, and so early parts of my career I remember people being like, oh, like, you know, Kamal's super smart but he needs like a babysitter in the meetings. Right. Because like, you know, I'm saying things that I shouldn't or I'm um, behaving in ways that I shouldn't. And a lot of that, like, I felt very defensive about in the beginning, but then I had a couple mentors at that point in my life where they didn't point out the obvious. They actually showed me what my strengths are and helped me amplify them. And instead of saying do these new things that you're probably not that great at, uh, they just said here's your strengths and, and make that on 90 or 100% of what your presence is, um, and everything else will fall into place. And that's the approach I take to mentorship is identify the, the um, the kernel of the diamond in the person and help them amplify it significantly. Right. Like make that obvious to them, make that clear to them and help them leverage that for the best. And mostly, usually everything else falls into place.

Speaker A: That's great. Whereas, was Holamka one of your, was John one of your mentors back in the day? Because I remember one of you, I don't know if it was John or Rasu, brought you to. I don't know. How'd you get, um, brought into the think tank? In my thinking.

Speaker B: Rasoo.

Speaker A: Rasul.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. Yeah, so it's one heck of a mentor there. It's great. So mentoring in medicine, in a healthcare innovation is often informal and inconsistent. What would a more intentional, systematic approach be to mentoring, um, look like and what would it mean for the next generation of oncology leaders?

Speaker B: I think that one of the most underrated things is professional coaching. Right. Think about all the sports team, think about the soccer games going on right now. Like think about the amount of coaching, mentorship intentionally that goes into it. Right? Like where you actually have a person that's like managing you, they don't call them the managers, they call them the coaches. Right. For a reason. And I think that the art of coaching is lost in medicine specifically. I think we have hierarchical systems, I think we have decision trees, I think we have, you know, uh, compliance. But we don't have, what we don't have is mentorship and coaches. And so I really like to, even in my company, um, what we have is we have your, um, your manager and we have your Mentor specifically named and identified. Okay. And the roles are different here at Moffitt? Uh, no, in my company, at uh, the studio.

Speaker A: Okay, good, great.

Speaker B: Okay. And um, it's different people. Right. And so it's like yes, your managers, your line manager and they'll do your performance review and they'll do all that stuff. But your mentor.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is helping you with the skills that you need to be better at your job. And if we can make that culture more sort of permeable.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: I think that that's good. And then the other thing that is underrated is like sporadic professional coaching. 10 to 12 weeks focused on a couple of different things and get your muscle right, you know, get you sort of exercising in that area and get you better at that. There's no harm in that. I'm just in the process of hiring a chief of staff, for example, and my first step before that person even starts the role is she's going to get six weeks of coaching y on how to do the job. Right. Um, not from me.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: But from a professional person who's actually been a chief of staff before.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So if you do that, you invest in those areas, it's almost like football. You know, you get your kick better and you get your stride better and you know, learn how to defend and no shame. Right. Who's going to teach you otherwise?

Speaker A: That's a fantastic best practice. I think, Jake, we need to implement that. Our company too. You know, you have, you have a manager, then you also take a mentor. Love that. Awesome. Well, Dr. Kamala Jitwani, thank you so much my good friend. I appreciate your time.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for having me. Really appreciate it.

Speaker A: Always. Thank you. You got it. And that's a wrap from here at Moffitt Cancer Center. Many thanks to my good friends Kamal and Naineesh for joining me. A great spectrum of shows covering cancer innovation, best practices, but also the key success, happiness and the importance of mentoring. So I'm grateful for the opportunity to be here and uh, look forward to many more shows coming from this campus, uh, and probably Tampa in general as these good friends and I love to bring this great content to you and hopefully you find it as again encouraging and uh, enlightening as myself. Have a great rest of your day and thank you so much,

Speaker B: Sam.