Jeff Marootian | Former Principal Deputy Assistant Secretary, Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, U.S. DOE

Karan Takhar: Foreign. Welcome to the Zenergy Podcast. I'm your host, Karn Takar. Today I sit down with Jeff Merudian, who most recently served as as acting Assistant Secretary of the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable energy at the US Department of Energy, managing a $3 billion innovation portfolio focused on, um, advancing clean energy technologies. We discuss his path through public service, lessons in leadership and communication, and how governments can better collaborate to accelerate clean energy projects. If you enjoyed today's episode, please subscribe now. Here's my conversation with Jeff Merudian. Hello Jeff. Welcome to the Zenergy Podcast. It is wonderful to have you on and I'm, um, super excited to dive into all of your past experience, or as much as we can get to. So as I was doing research for this conversation so that you had a very fascinating career spanning local government, federal agencies, and now the private sector. Before we get into the details, love to hear what first drew you into the world of public service and energy.

Jeff Marootian: Sure. Well, uh, thanks so much, Karen. It's, it's great to be on and really have been looking forward to this conversation. I always knew that I wanted to be in government and politics since my earliest days, uh, in high school was really motivated by public policy, uh, by the idea that every day people could come together and change the way our government works. Uh, clean energy and transportation, uh, and public safety broadly have defined most of my career. But I'll be honest and say that those were not things that were even on my radar back then. I sort of veered into them when I got my start in local government working for the city of D.C. and just really developed a passion for that intersection between safety and sustainability. And that has largely defined, uh, the majority of my career, both at the federal level in, uh, both the Obama and the Biden administrations, but then also working, uh, for the city of D.C. where I've spent actually the bulk of my career.

Karan Takhar: That's interesting that transport and energy weren't necessarily on your radar initially when you got involved in public service. How exactly did that happen? Where working with the city of D.C. and then ultimately ended up at the Department of Transportation. Could you walk us through how that opportunity came about?

Jeff Marootian: Sure. Well, I went to school here in D.C. uh, at GW and when I finished graduate school, my first job was working for the city of D.C. and I, I landed at the, the D.C. department of Transportation and got very active in the work of building out, uh, the sustainable infrastructure. Everything from active transportation, bike lanes, for example, to the infrastructure that supports electrification. Uh, and those things got me Very interested and excited about sustainability. And of course, in the transportation world, there's also this component of safety. Everything that, uh, you do from an infrastructure standpoint is in service of making the city, uh, a safer place to travel. And so I got very motivated by those two things and moving those two things along together. And that ultimately led me to lead the D.C. department of Transportation, which I did, uh, for four years. And that work got me really excited about the underlying technologies, uh, that support that, uh, those types of efforts. And that's how I ended up at the U.S. department of Energy leading the Office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy, which has a sizable R and D portfolio, a huge chunk of which is actually specific for sustainable transportation technologies.

Karan Takhar: That makes a lot of sense. And sticking a little bit with your time in dc, The Department of Transportation, I just think it's interesting to, uh, on one hand, learn about how local politics per se works and then also get the lens of the federal side of things with your time at the doe. So while you were helping, for example, I think this is a really good one, getting bike lanes in D.C. i assume there are probably a lot of different stakeholders who had various perspectives on that issue. So could you provide some insight into what that process looked like to actually get bike lanes incorporated into the DC transit system? Like how you navigated the process of convincing different stakeholder groups to help support that initiative?

Jeff Marootian: Absolutely. Well, any infrastructure project requires building, uh, support from the public. It requires building support from elected officials. In the case of D.C. of course, we're a city, uh, that has, uh, the jurisdictional aspect of Maryland and Virginia as neighbors. And so there are a number of factors beyond just the technical readiness, uh, that are required in order to get any infrastructure project, whether it's bike facilities or a bridge or really anything, a number of things that you need to do in order to build that capacity. And for me, that's also a through line into much of the work that I did, uh, at the Department of Energy around clean energy deployment, uh, which is that it's not adequate enough to just have technology that is, uh, technically ready, uh, that works in a lab or at the pilot scale. You've got to build the ecosystem around it, uh, in order to ensure that you're able to deploy it and, uh, get the public to buy into it. And so as a city official, I spent a lot of time at public meetings at the very localized level, uh, hearing concerns, working to address issues, uh, in order to be able to bring people together and say, we have talked about this and there's general alignment on the way forward and that's not always easy. In fact, most times it's really hard. Uh, and so I learned a lot about how to effectively not only lead an organization, but how to effectively lead public communications, uh, around ideas that are not necessarily always bought into, uh, at the outset.

Karan Takhar: What are some of the learnings from either that experience or over your government career on the public communications front? Because I think it's so important. Also, I'm just envisioning people like coming to the local comment period hearings a little riled up and saying like, no, we don't want more traffic congestion in D.C. which the, which the bike lanes will create. So I'd love to get a sense of how you were able to navigate through that.

Jeff Marootian: Well, first and foremost, I think the most important lesson that I have relearned in every role that I've had in the government is the importance of transparency. And that is something that is often very difficult when you don't necessarily have all of the information available, uh, to talk about and discuss. But I think it's critical that as a public leader, regardless of where you are and what level of government, uh, that you're honest about the idea, honest about all of the data points, uh, that are leading you in the direction of executing on a specific project or idea, uh, and giving the public something that is real, uh, to react to. And for me, uh, that certainly was the case not only in building new bike lanes, but projects that were designed to increase, uh, the efficiency of our bus services. Those were all projects that were designed not only to improve the travel experience, but also these were major sustainability efforts. Our work to bring more people to public transportation, largely hinging on the idea that we can get more people to ride a bus if we made the bus service better, uh, if we made it more efficient, uh, and so that just that required a lot of communication around those principles, uh, and getting people

Karan Takhar: to buy into them makes a lot of sense. I also assume that the way government agencies communicate and actually reach the public has probably evolved pretty significantly over the last decade plus with social media of course, becoming more pervasive. Did you see like an evolution of the channels and platforms that you actually used and found effective to be able to help the public get more awareness onto an issue like the transit system, the public buses,

Jeff Marootian: certainly at the local level. It's an all of the above approach. You've gotta be in person, uh, because there is certainly that, uh, uh, the segment of the community that operates very much in the in person Model, uh, you know, city council hearings, for example. Uh, although there are now zoom components to them, they still happen in person. And so if you want to, if you want to engage, uh, with local elected officials, you often have to be there to do that work. But then of course, we know that social media is a tool that is very useful. And it's a combination of those things that I think gets you to the widest audience, uh, possible. And certainly that includes making sure that we're doing everything that we can to reach non, uh, English speaking or limited English speaking communities, uh, that we're doing everything that we possibly can to connect with folks where they are. And so when I was a local official, uh, I was out in the field almost every day meeting, um, with neighbors on their individual blocks in their communities. Uh, that became a challenge and became a completely different prospect during the pandemic. Uh, and a lot of people had experience of working less during the pandemic. I did not have that experience. I was actually doubling my work, uh, because we were doing a significant amount of work, uh, online, being a part of community meetings, which effectively increased in volume, uh, because they were happening, uh, online. So while I was not necessarily traveling as much during that time, I was certainly very active and engaged not only in the pandemic response, but also ensuring that everything we were doing, all the infrastructure projects, uh, remained on task. And you know, during that time we had our largest, the largest infrastructure project to date in the city's history. The Frederick Douglass Memorial Bridge was, uh, was about halfway complete. And it was largely my responsibility to make sure that that bridge was constructed on time and on budget, uh, which was a whole nother endeavor, uh, during the pandemic.

Karan Takhar: I feel like getting any construction project built on time and on budget. It's a herculean task, especially one as sizable as the Frederick Memorial Bridge. So did it end up getting constructed on time and on budget?

Jeff Marootian: Yes, it did. And that's a project, uh, that I talk about and think about a lot. And whenever people ask me what my proudest moment in government, uh, has been, uh, to date, that is, that is by far the example that I, that I choose to talk about because it, you know, it was so much more than, and is so much more than just a bridge. It's really a symbol for, uh, the city. It is a bridge that was designed to not only be, uh, an infrastructure project, but to improve safety, to improve sustainability, to add in bicycle and pedestrian accessibility, but also to connect communities, uh, that historically were not physically, uh, connected. And so There was a real opportunity for us there to do something that just hadn't been done. But a huge part of that, going back to our earlier conversation, uh, was communicating directly not only with the public, uh, but also with our neighboring states, with the federal government as there was a significant federal uh, dollar contribution, uh, to the project, um, making sure that people were kept informed every step of the way about what was happening and why it was happening.

Karan Takhar: I think that's such a good point that a lot of people, including myself, don't fully understand when it comes to building these infrastructure projects with regards to the different levels of government that are often involved, from the local city to the local county, even to then the federal side of things. So you're having to navigate through permitting, etc. Across several layers of government, which um, is something that sometimes gets lost in the fold where usually it's the federal government that gets the blame or like the governor's office. Whereas in many cases it's really like the localities um, that uh, have uh, not they don't hold up their projects, but it just creates another layer that you have to go through. Seems like that's something similar that you. To navigate through with this bridge.

Jeff Marootian: Yes.

Karan Takhar: Essentially brings me to the theme of the conversation which is trying to figure out how, since you have such good experience across several different levels, how the government and the private sector can work more efficiently together to get projects built more quickly. Uh, I'm sure you've been aware of this conversation that's going on, which Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson, um, sort of started with the um, abundance agenda, which really at its core has a lot to do with trying to make government more efficient in order to get things built. And um, with that I think it would be good to transition a little bit to your work at the doe because clean energy has been at the core of a lot of things that have been getting built over the past couple of years. Um, some say maybe too slowly, some say, you know, just on time. But uh, would love to just start this part of the conversation by getting an overview of what exactly the Office of Renewable Energy and Energy Efficiency is.

Jeff Marootian: Sure. So the Office of Energy Efficiency, Renewable Energy, uh, is in, is an office within the Department of Energy that uh, that has historically been focused on supporting research and development of clean energy technologies. And one of the things that I focused on during my time there, which was consistent with the overall theme of the work that we were doing as an administration, was not just investing in the R and D, but also thinking through and investing in the infrastructure, that ecosystem, if you will, that could help accelerate bringing that technology to market and creating not just the policy systems, but the financial and other market conditions, uh, uh, that were necessary in order to accelerate and ultimately deploy those technologies, not unlike what I just described in terms of building infrastructure. It's not enough to just say, we've got this great idea here. Here it is. Uh, you've got to really build that capacity and uh, essentially make it inevitable. And so that is largely the work that I focused on during my time at eere, uh, investing in technologies, both those that were existing technologies, uh, like solar, uh, and helping to improve and uh, make systems more efficient, uh, but then more nascent technologies, uh, that had a little bit more room to be proven, uh, and where we had the really exciting opportunity to help facilitate, uh, the future adoption of those technologies.

Karan Takhar: What are some of the nascent technologies that you and the team helped support during your time there?

Jeff Marootian: So, as I look back, I think the work that we did as an agency around technology such as geothermal, uh, or hydrogen, for example, those were places where investments, and we continue to see how those investments have paid dividends, uh, where we were focused not just on R and D for R and D sake, but also looking at all of the ways that those types of technological advancements could be integrated into the grid, uh, and done so and built out, uh, on a faster timeline. Timeline than maybe historically we've seen with other, uh, infrastructure projects. And so those are the kinds of things that I think a lot about when we talk about this idea of how do we. How do we move things faster? Much of that type of conversation is happening at not just the federal level and not just the state level, uh, but at the intersection between those two entities and in some cases the local or the tribal level, uh, and also the private sector. And so it requires a level of facilitation, uh, in order to move things forward at a quicker pace than, uh, what we have historically seen, uh, in deployment of that type of infrastructure and technology.

Karan Takhar: Yeah. So how do you do that? How do you get the level of facilitation that you need to actually get projects built in a relatively timely manner?

Jeff Marootian: Well, uh, to me it's about urgency, and it's not just the urgency of the end result. Uh, and this is something that I learned and observed, uh, from Secretary Granholm, uh, who I think in many ways can teach a masterclass on leadership. But, you know, it's not just the urgency of getting to the, to the finished product. Product, but every step along the way requires urgency, the urgency of keeping open communication, um, with, with everybody who's got an equity in the project, uh, and, and making sure that um, that people are kept informed every step of the way. And when there are setbacks, you address them openly and transparently, uh, and collectively come together to try to solve them. And so it's a mindset that is required and it's not just about ramming it through, which I think, uh, may sometimes be. The uh, message is we just have to move faster. Uh, we've got to drive processes forward more aggressively. Uh, that doesn't always get you to the end result and sometimes that could actually have detrimental impact if those, those critical action steps along the way aren't uh, aren't thorough and meticulously executed.

Karan Takhar: Some might say that currently there's too much of a focus on process in government and less of a focus on actually getting results. I think Ezra was mentioning regarding the Broadband initiative about how in order to uh, actually get an award for the grant, you to go through 11 different stages of application. Um, and similarly with some of the provisions in the CHIPS act, there are all these stacked layers on top of it regarding um, apprenticeship requirements and other requirements that necessarily didn't have to do with getting the actual manufacturing plants built, which I'm not is a bad thing. I'm just saying it, it could add, and it probably does add a delay in terms of being able to start building these, these big important investments out. So like what, what would you respond to that?

Jeff Marootian: Yeah, look, there is no question that our processes, uh, generally are always primed for uh, opportunities to find efficiencies. And I think that's one of the exciting things about working in the government, either at the state and local level or at the federal level is identifying not only where those efficiencies could be found, but figuring out the best way to address them and to get people rallied around the idea that can be addressed. And certainly that's something that in every, uh, in every government role that I've had, I have focused on, uh, because it has always been a priority for the people that I was working for, certainly working for, uh, a cabinet secretary, working for a mayor. Uh, those are always going to be the types of questions that you get asked as a leader within the organization is how do we make this, how do we make this process quicker? And so there's absolutely no question that uh, that's always an opportunity. Um, but I am also sensitive to making sure that the process points that are essential for building public trust and maintaining public trust, uh, aren't compromised because it's not worth, you know, the juice isn't worth the squeeze, in my opinion. If you get to an end result, uh, that people are not bought into, uh, that is not a model for replicating success. And that's one of the things that I learned, uh, working at the city level, is that you've got to demonstrate something that's working in order to be able to build it again, uh, and to show that it, that it's something that people really want in their community or at a larger scale. And that's true of anything from transportation infrastructure, uh, to new clean energy technologies as well.

Karan Takhar: That makes a lot of sense. Thank you for expanding on that. I know we only have a couple minutes left here and really want to get your perspective as someone who's worked in the public sector across different verticals. And given that there are a lot of listeners to this podcast who are, uh, earlier in their career and looking to contribute in some, Some capacity. As you reflect back, is there any piece of advice that you'd give either your younger self or someone today who, um, might be trying to figure out where they can play a meaningful role in contributing to public service?

Jeff Marootian: Well, you know, I'm always cautious to give advice because, um, my perspective is unique to my own experience. And what I have learned from that experience is that there isn't necessarily one straightforward path. And I think as I look back on my own career, uh, I can make it seem as though every decision I made professionally was, uh, intentional. Made a lot of sense, but that's not an honest reflection of what it was. I was motivated to do things that I was curious about that I was interested in. Um, and I encourage people to be curious and to pursue things that are interesting that may or may not be the logical path, um, if you will, um, and to trust your gut instinct about what the right next move for you is in terms of career. I'm still very bullish on government and public service, and I think there will continue to be a lot of opportunities to have an impact, uh, at all levels of government.

Karan Takhar: Well, thank you so much, Jeff, uh, for taking the time. Really, really appreciate you coming on the podcast. I know you're a busy person and I'm inspired by all of your experience in public service. So grateful that you were able to join and, um, would love to be in touch.

Jeff Marootian: Thanks, Karen. Great to talk to you guys.

Karan Takhar: Thanks so much for checking out the Zenergy podcast. If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to rate and subscribe to the podcast. It would mean so much to me and the rest of the team. We release episodes every Thursday, so stay tuned for all new episodes featuring industry leaders building a cleaner, greener future for us all. See you next time.