Episode 63 - Eliminate Your Fears and Get Started with Aaron Marcus

Speaker A: Marketing, explosive growth and revolutionary secrets that can catapult your business to new heights. You're now listening to the Underground Marketer podcast with your host, Tudor Dimitrescu. The one podcast devoted to showing new businesses how to market themselves for high growth.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Underground Marketer. This is the place where we deliver the real truth about marketing and explore big ideas that can help new businesses thrive and grow into big ones. I'm your host, Tudor and today it's my honor to welcome Aaron Marcus. He's been a full time actor and voiceover artist for 36 plus years and has worked on over 1289 projects including ABC's TV pilot, Heart of Life, Gotham, House of Cards and many more. In addition, Aaron has also helped thousands of professionals and business owners develop develop their soft skills through his online mentoring programs. Welcome Aaron.

Speaker A: Oh, it's so great to be here with you tutor.

Speaker B: That's fantastic. I'm really glad to have you and I hope that we can learn a lot from you. So to start with, Aaron, you've had a very interesting career. Can you tell us a little bit about how you got started and involved with being an actor and voiceover talent and really what you've learned from it so far?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. And to make it pretty short for a lot of actors, they grew up knowing this is what they wanted to do. I had no intention of being an actor. I really never even thought of it. I actually was planning on being a physical therapist. I needed a part time job to support myself in school. I met an actor, he told me what he did and I thought, well that sounds like fun.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so I start doing this work on a very part time basis while I was a full time student, college student and I did that for two years and I found that I really loved doing the work. Uh, it was fun for me and I actually was getting booked and so I decided to not pursue physical therapy and I decided to give acting a shot for one year on a full time basis just to see what it was like, if I still enjoyed it. Could I live the life of a freelancer and, and not have a steady income? And so that was 36 years ago.

Speaker B: Wow, that's really fascinating because I mean I've had some friends myself who are uh, in the acting business and a lot of people apparently these days are struggling. But it seems that you found a way to make it work quite quickly.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I wouldn't say quite quickly. Like with any kind of job, it does take time and Unlike, um, becoming a doctor where you graduate from medical school and you start working right away. Well, it doesn't work that way in lots of businesses where a degree doesn't guarantee any kind of work at all. I mean, I've done jobs with people who've graduated from Yale Drama School and they tell me that a lot of their fellow classmates are hardly working. And so, uh, you know, once again, this really relates to lots of different kinds of businesses. But it's not just a matter of having a degree and it's not just sometimes it's not even a matter of just being really good. There are other factors involved that really allow some people to have success in the industry and others not have success.

Speaker B: That's fascinating. And I think that that's true not just in acting, in pretty much any other freelance profession, and also in business. I mean, business just involves some other people, but ultimately you're still on your own and you have to find a way to make it work. So I'm just curious here, Aaron, what would you say was the key, or perhaps the keys to getting those first job and turning this into a full time career for you?

Speaker A: Yeah, that's a great question. Tutor. So I would say the most important key, and once again, pretty much everything that I'm talking about through the eyes of an actor really is connected with all kinds of businesses. So the number one key for anybody who wants to have success, and I know this is going to sound a little silly, but it's absolutely true, is to start is to get started. And the reason why I know that is so true is because I've been in acting classes like when I first started with people. And these people were professional class takers. These were people who never got out of the classroom, never jumped into the industry, never really tried to get work. And you know, that happens for a lot of people. And look, I've also been hired by some companies to help some of their workers. And so I see that there is a fear of failure for people. There's a fear of just not having any success. And that can really hurt someone from getting started in something that they are thinking about, dreaming about, fantasizing about, but they just don't pursue it.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, what you said marked me about the professional class takers. Because I mean, in business I see the same thing nowadays. There's so many courses out there and even in our community here we have people who have taken so many courses. You know, they spend $10,000 or more getting so much education, but they're still struggling to do exactly what you said, which is actually get started.

Speaker A: Oh, I'm sorry. I was just going to jump in there and look, I just want to make it really clear. I'm not saying. Just like you're not saying don't take classes, you know, don't learn. Of course you've got to do that. That's an investment. That is part of your business expense of, uh, being as educated as you possibly can be. But you have to be willing to take that next step and actually use that information and test it out in the world.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, this is exactly what I was going to ask you. So my question was going to be, what do you think is holding those people back from actually taking action? That's number one. And number two, how can they actually go about overcoming that? And if you have any personal stories that you can share about doing that yourself, I think that can be quite inspiring for our audience.

Speaker A: Yes, absolutely. Like the biggest block for people, the reason why so many people don't pursue whatever it is that they are interested in, it's fear, and it's the fear of failure. And it's really interesting. I have a very different take on this. And look, just because I'm telling people this is what I do, I am certainly not saying this is the only way to be successful, the only way to do things. I'm just sharing with folks in this world how I have been successful. That's all. And there might, might be other people who do things very differently, and they might have tremendous success. For me, when I go to an audition for, whether it's a feature film, whether it's for a voiceover narration for a television show, a commercial, it doesn't make any difference. I go into the audition knowing I'm not booking the job. And I know that sounds so crazy to some people, they say, well, how can you have such a negative attitude going into an audition? There are other people who. Look, whether it's with sales, which is essentially what I do. Look, I'm an actor. I also do what's called commercial modeling, which is. It's not fashion modeling, it's modeling for real people. So when they need the doctor for a pharmaceutical ad, I'm the guy they need a patient. I'm, um, the guy they need the social worker, you know, whatever it is, when they need a real person, that's what I do. But, uh, you know, the point is, some people use this philosophy, and I'm not saying it's wrong. It didn't work for me. I Tried it. They like to visualize and maybe before they're going to knock on somebody's door for a job or to sell something, they visualize their success. So for me, some people will visualize walking through the red carpet for their Grammy because they've just been nominated for an Academy Award, and they find that that helps them really have more confidence during their audition. For me, it's just the opposite. I tried it. It was embarrassing to me. What I do is, and it's not like I'm a negative guy. I don't walk around saying the sky is falling and I'm horrible and nobody likes me and I'm never going to work. But I'm also realistic. And I go into the audition and instead of thinking, oh, I'm going to book this job and I'm going to look at everybody in the casting room and say, hey, you know what, guys, you might as well go home because I've got this job. I take a very different approach. My approach is I am not even thinking about booking a job. That's not a goal for me. My number one goal for every audition that I have is enjoying myself. I want to have a good time. That's it. Now I might be traveling four hours to get to New York for an audition and four hours on the way back and I will spend maybe two and a half, three minutes in front of a casting director. That part of it is not so much fun, traveling 8 hours hours for 3 minute audition. However, although in today's time period, I have to say if there is anything positive to say about what's going on in the world is that most of the auditions are done at home. I don't have to travel for auditions, but by having my goal just enjoying myself, you know what, it's a Wednesday afternoon. I get a chance to act. That's fun for me. For every audition that I go on, my number one goal is, is having a good time. My second goal for every audition is can I learn something from this? Did I feel like I did everything that I prepared to do if the matter of fact here you asked for a real situation. So, uh, there's TV commercial and I don't want to mention the name of it, but I got a call back and so yesterday I had a call back and now I'm reading live on Zoom, um, with the director and the casting director and they said, do what you did the first time and then we're going to play a little bit. And then I was asked to do some different things and When I finished, I actually thought to myself, I'm not really sure, I'm not 100% sure if I did everything that the director asked of me. Some of the things were a little unclear. I stopped and asked a couple things and then I kind of backed off a little. So. And look, it doesn't mean that I'm not going to get it because of that, but I didn't walk out of there thinking, you know what, that was great. I did everything that I wanted to do. It's something that I learned. And look, I'm still learning. Been doing this for a long time, but I always still learn. I wish I would have asked a couple of other questions just to fully understand what the director, uh, was looking for. And so the second goal is to learn from the experience. Like I said, sometimes I walk out, I really like what I did. Sometimes I go, eh, maybe I didn't really take in what was being asked of me or whatever it is. And the third thing is, look, if I happen to book the job, which I don't really anticipate, that's icing on the cake. And the reason why I go in thinking that. And this will kind of lead into your second question about how to deal with fear and nervousness is that, uh, I'm realistic. I understand how many people are initially auditioning for a project. There are quite a few now. For this particular callback, there were only two of us. So it was down to two people out of hundreds of people who submitted for this. So maybe a 50% shot because sometimes they might even go outside. Outside of the two people they called back, who knows? But uh, one of the ways that I deal with nervousness is by not putting that additional pressure on myself of, I gotta book this job, I need this job, I'm gonna get a chance to work with a famous actor. This is gonna be a high paying job. Whatever it is. If you start thinking about needing to land that job, needing to get that contract, you're just adding additional pressure on. And I can also tell you that casting directors And I'm sure CEOs at, uh, companies who are hiring, they can smell desperation a mile away. They know they can sense when somebody is nervous and that's not who they want to work with. They're going to want to work with and buy things from somebody who feels comfortable, who seems to be having a good time, somebody they would like to spend time with. I'm not saying you have to be in love with other people in the business in order to work with Them, look, there are agents I'm not so crazy about. There are casting directors I'm not so crazy about, but I still work with them. But I do believe if you don't add that additional pressure on yourself for having to book the job and having to look great and having to sound great, just enjoy it. And I think that makes you much, much more appealing. Hey, think about if you're going out on a date with somebody, you want to have a good time with person, and not put additional pressure of, hey, is this the person I'm going to marry for the rest of my, you know, spend the rest of my life? I think that having just kind of flipping your frame of mind and not putting that additional pressure on yourself makes it a much better experience. And the one other thing I would add to your second question, as far as dealing with nervousness is, and this is something that I tell everybody, whether it's private sessions or workshops, don't get rid of, of your nervousness. And I know a lot. I know that sounds a little strange because most people say, well, you can't show your nervousness. Well, I'm not saying you show it, but if you feel nervous, I don't think that's a bad thing. You know, what we're doing, whether it's an audition or you're selling a product to somebody, selling your services, it can be scary. And what I do is, number one, I acknowledge it. I will actually acknowledge to myself that I'm feeling nervous about this. And that happens to me as many times as I've been on sets and auditions. There are certain auditions working with certain actors. That's when I was working with Dame Judi Dench in a film. I was scared to death. I don't mind mentioning it. I don't mind agreeing, uh, to. I was scared. This is Judi Dench, and I've got a scene with her, and I'm scared to death. So instead of getting rid of it, trying to block it, what I do is I harness that energy. I acknowledge I'm nervous to myself, and I try to use that nervousness to my advantage. Find that when I am nervous, I have a tendency to speak a little bit faster. And I kind, uh, of lose touch with what I'm trying to do a little bit. So what I do is I take some deep breaths before, once again, this is all in private. And, uh, people are watching me do this, and I'm sharing it with you all. But I'll take some deep breaths. I let the air out slowly. I'm not trying to get rid of the nervousness because I find that nervousness actually can help my audition. It can help my performance. But what I'm trying to do is harness that energy. I just let the air come out of my mouth and I count to eight, letting it out slowly. And I find that little tingly feeling is still there. But I don't feel quite as wired as I did before. So sometimes just doing little breathing exercises can be helpful to people too. But if you are nervous, you're human, it's okay. Don't bang yourself over the head with that and just try to use it to your advantage.

Speaker B: A ton of value though, in there. So I've taken very detailed notes. So we're going to go through everything. The first thing that you said, I'm not looking to get booked. Uh, when I do this audition, it's very interesting because I've heard this response from two business people as well. Last year, actually a similar response. One of them built a very large tutoring business and the other one owns a very large landscaping company. And both of them said that when they started in business they had, uh, really low expectations. They didn't really expect it to succeed, but it did. And personally, I'm also this type of person. I also don't expect things when I first started them to necessarily be successful. That sort of emerges along the way. And this is fascinating to me because I do think that most people aren't like this and most people are the opposite and they have to think that it will be successful to do it. But again, it's fascinating that this response occurs to somebody who is outside of business as well. I just find that very interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah. And you know, but, you know, if you think about it, if you are a customer and somebody is selling you, they're working really hard. It leaves a, uh, bad taste in your mouth if somebody comes to you and says, hey, look, this is what I have to offer, this is what I can do that will help you. But not pushing you, not hitting you over the head with it, not making it difficult for you to say no. And just someone who's pleasant and someone that you want to spend. Why would you want to learn more about what this person has to offer you? So to me, once again, a lot of the things that I, uh, do as an actor, which is a business, my business is very, it's not as far away from other kinds of businesses as people think, look, I'm a salesperson. I am selling myself at, ah, every audition I go on, I Am selling myself. And I know you didn't ask this, but it just kind of popped into my head. The other thing too is you have to understand not everybody wants to buy you. Not everybody wants to buy your product. And it doesn't mean that your product isn't great, doesn't mean that it's not helpful. For whatever reason, it's not the right fit for that other person, and that's okay. And then you just go and knock on somebody else's door.

Speaker B: Mhm. I mean this is extremely valuable because we do have a lot of people who are dealing with sales and who are looking to increase their sales. And there is a lot of procrastination around that and also anxiety, which we're going to talk about in a bit more detail. But before then, one of the big lessons that I took took from your story so far and from what you've said, is that you need to set goals that you can control. For example, in your case, you cannot control if somebody is going to give you a job, but you can control if you have a good time and if you learn, which are the two goals that you set for yourself. So personally, this is one of the big lessons that I took out of it. I don't know if you would put it quite in the same words, but I think it's very important for our listeners.

Speaker A: And you said something really important. You talked about control and you are 100% correct. I have 100% control over my audition. Just like a business person, somebody's selling something, you have 100% control over your pitch, over what you're trying to sell. You have no control over a final decision. And um, so for me I realize that I get hired or don't get hired based on so many different factors that maybe I'm too tall, maybe I'm not tall enough, maybe I'm too. Well, I can't say I'm ever too attractive because I'm not an attractive guy, so that part wouldn't fly. But maybe I look too much like the star of the project and they don't want to bring in another character that looks too much like this person. Maybe I remind the director of her ex husband who she can't stand and doesn't want to be around. So there are just so many factors that go into getting the job, getting the sale. And you're right, we have no control over that. And so that's why I don't beat myself up if I don't get a callback or I don't book the job. And even if I do a bad audition, which happens sometimes, look, we are human. And look, even if I were a neurosurgeon, some days I'm not going to be as good as other days. Now, hopefully even a bad day for a neurosurgeon is still a really good day. But the fact is we are human. Human. And if I don't do what I wanted to do in my audition, I walk out of there and I say, you know what, I did the best I could in that particular situation and I got through it. I didn't have a hissy fit, I didn't start crying, I didn't melt down, I didn't run out of there in tears. I walk out of there. And this is something I think is also helpful. Even if you find that you're making a pitch to somebody and uh, you're just not doing a good job that day, don't let other people see that you walk out of every audition, every pitch, with your head held high, that you just gave the greatest performance of a lifetime. Because what I find is that sometimes we beat ourselves up more than anybody else and we might walk out of a situation like that and think, oh, I was horrible in there. And you know what, maybe you didn't do what you wanted to do, but somebody else might have really liked what you did. And they might even say, yeah, it wasn't perfect, but no, I really liked it. But if you walk, walk out with your head down and your shoulders shrugging and you're apologizing and well, then they might start thinking, yeah, maybe it really wasn't so good. So I think it's really helpful. No matter whether you really liked what you did, whether you didn't like what you did, you walk out of there in a really positive way. And that way you're not telling somebody that you feel like you did a bad job.

Speaker B: Mhm. I mean, I think that very often with regards to this, we think that other people see how we're feeling. Many times, for example, when I've done public speaking, I felt very nervous and I felt that my delivery lacked confidence. But then if you asked other people, they would say that I sounded very confident and fully in control. Other people don't necessarily see how we feel, even though we were sort of afraid that somehow they will see it.

Speaker A: And actually it just to throw in a real experience, this is years ago, I auditioned for a TV commercial and I'm sure everybody can relate to this. There was a, the director was there and he was explaining Things that he needed done in the read for this particular commercial. There are some people in this world. For me, the person was speaking English, but I did not understand what the person was saying. It was just a different way of talking. He was using analogies that I didn't understand. And I was able to ask a couple of questions. But it was very clear to me that I had no idea what to do for this audition. M. No clue whatsoever. And I just did whatever I could do. But I knew it couldn't have been what this person was looking for, because I was clueless. And the crazy thing was, when I booked the job that cast the. I'm sorry, the director said to me, he goes, aaron, I got to tell you, interviewed a lot of people, saw a lot of people for the spot. You were the only one who got it.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: So I looked at him, and meanwhile, I'm thinking, what, are you kidding? I had no idea what I was doing in there. And I just looked at him, and I was using all of my acting skills, and I said, well, I got to tell you, the way you responded to my questions, they were invaluable to me, so thank you very much. And so you're right. It can be really difficult. And sometimes we are our own worst enemies, and we will be really rough on our. I was like you were saying, sometimes you think I didn't have confidence, and I felt nervous and. And didn't know what I was. And other people watched it and said, no, you were great. So. Yeah, and that's why I'm not saying don't analyze what you did, but sometimes take everything that you're feeling with a grain of salt because it's not necessarily how other people perceive it.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Those are great points. You also talked about nervousness and how we shouldn't try to get rid of it, but rather try to use it to our advantage. A lot of people, they think that nervousness is a bad thing because they think about a situation, let's say cold calling somebody, and they think through the possible consequences, and they figure out, I'm not gonna die. Nothing bad is going to happen. The worst thing is maybe this person will shout at me or get angry at me, but somehow they still feel nervous, even though it doesn't make rational sense to them. So that's what really leads them to blame themselves after which just, uh, makes it worse because they think my nervousness is irrational, so therefore it's bad. What sort of way do you have to counter that?

Speaker A: Yeah. And so this kind of goes back to what I said before. Hey, what's there to be nervous about? You're not getting this job anyway.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Why are you scared they're not going to hire you? Why? Why are you scared they're not going to buy your products? Don't be scared. It's not going to work out for you anyhow. So look, enjoy it. And you're, you're also, you're right. So what is the worst thing? They could curse at you, they could hang up, they could tell you, you know, leave them alone. Okay, that could, certainly that could happen. But also remember, this is not a personal friend that you're dealing with. This is a business person, somebody you don't know. And look, we don't have to be loved by everybody in this world. And somebody who would treat another human being like that. Which, look, I realize it happens all the time. I see it in my business too. Casting directors who are nasty to actors or a director or an agent. Sometimes people who are looking for representation and they get horrible things said to them. Okay, well, you know what the other thing that I think of is? I'm just glad I'm not married to that person, that's all. And look, the fact is, and I think this is important to keep in mind, we do not have to be loved by everybody. And not everybody is so nice. And I just look at them in those kinds of situations who might yell at you and you know, scream, boy, that's a sad situation to live your life like that. It's one thing if somebody said, hey, look, I'm really not interested in the product. Best of luck to you. You see ya. Okay, that's fine. But when people act out, it's their issue, it's not yours, and so don't worry about it.

Speaker B: That's fantastic advice. I noticed that you mentioned, uh, about directors sometimes being rough or nasty. I think that also happens in business. A lot of people that I know have issues. For example, they have a very big customer who is like 30% of their yearly revenue. And they don't treat them right. They treat them very badly. Not just them as the. Meaning the directors, but also their employees. But. And they don't know how to handle that situation. So do you have any advice for people who have to work basically with people who don't like them and who don't treat them right that you can share?

Speaker A: Yeah. Hey, look, the thing is, you have to keep in mind and look, and I've been guilty of this myself sometimes where I take things personally from people I Start thinking in ways as if somebody who I'm, um, having a personal relationship with is treating me this way and I have to flip it and just understand this is not my friend. This is not somebody who I'd like to spend a lot of time. This is a business associate who I might be doing a lot of business with. And so I don't take it personally because it's not a personal thing. Look, sometimes people are, uh, just nasty. Sometimes they're having a bad day and you happen to be hitting them at a really bad time period and they might lash out. It's. To me, I don't really. I think it's a really horrible way to treat other people. But not everybody deals with the world in the way that I do. And I try to have respect for everybody. And I think the key thing is this is. And I know I keep saying this, but it's true. This is not a personal relationship. It's a business relationship. And that's different. So instead of saying, I really don't like the way that you're talking to me, that you might say to somebody who you've known for years, you just have to step back a little bit. And I'm not saying, I'm not saying that there are times where you do have to stand up and say something so you're not being treated so poorly because there's no excuse for that. But you do have to make that fine line decision as to whether you're going to say something or not say something. But one of the things that I will do, and I can feel it coming on from other people and I try to sidestep it sometimes I just agree with people. I find that to be really helpful if somebody is just on this rant. And maybe I feel very differently about something than what this person is talking about. But once again, this is not my personal friend. This is a business partner here. And if it means doing psychological martial arts, then you do that. And if you need to step away from a punch that's being thrown and you just move your head in another direction so you don't get hit, but you can still stay there, I think that's a smart way to do it. So I think the most important thing is don't take things personally. Just like going back to auditioning for job or trying to get representation for an 8, you know, with an agent. If I don't get it, it's not a personal statement about me. For whatever reason, I'm just not the perfect fit for this particular situation. And I think I'm a pretty nice guy and I treat people well. And if I don't book a job again for the rest of my life, I think I still am pretty nice guy and treat people well. So no matter what happens with your business, don't base your self worth on how well your business is doing. I think that can be a dangerous thing. And I've seen this happen in the acting world where you get people who had tremendous success, but the only thing that makes them feel good about themselves is the fact that fact that they are successful and they surround themselves with people who keep saying how great they are. And then at some point for a lot of people, especially for people whose stardom, um, just rose very, very quickly, that starts to fade at some point. And when that starts to happen, you start to lose the people who want to hang around with you because you're paying for everything and they're just not there anymore. And you don't have people screaming for autographs and having selfies taken you. And all of a sudden you start feeling bad about yourself because you don't have the success. That is a dangerous way to live. And so I think you need to try to feel good about yourself regardless of what's happening in your business.

Speaker B: I mean, this sort of goes to the previous point about setting goals that you can control. I mean, you should tie your self worth to what's ultimately in your control. If you tie your self worth to things that aren't in your control. And this happens very often in business. People can make a money all of a sudden and they're on top of the world. They buy the best car that they've always wanted, they buy a boat, whatever it is. But then over time they start losing the friends that they previously had. They don't pay so much attention to their relationships and they start ending up feeling miserable. So I think that this point is very important because I think that success without happiness or without fulfillment is ultimately not worth it. It, it's no point being successful if you're going to be miserable. And the best way to avoid this, I think, is to not tie your self worth to things that are outside of your control.

Speaker A: I think that's a great point and I think for a lot of people too, especially people who are just getting started, whether they have success or not. I tell people you should be incredibly proud of yourself for giving this a shot. Shot?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Whatever. The business is just getting out there and taking the information that you have gleaned from the world and you are absolutely out there trying this, to me that is success and if it works for you, that's wonderful. And if, uh, for whatever reason, whether you just don't have the financial success to sustain yourself because you want to do this as a full time job, or, or maybe you find that it sounded really interesting but you really don't know if you want to do the day to day work. Like with acting, you are willing to put in the time and get the right materials and the right photos and travel the eight hours for a two minute audition. Maybe that's just not something that you really want to do after you've really learned the realities of it and then you can put it to bed and move on to something else. Because for me, and look, this is just the way that I work and, and maybe it's not a good way for other people, but when I first started, I really didn't have much in the way of goals. The only goals I had when I decided I wanted to try this full time for one year was number one, could I get work? Could I still continue to get work? Because if this is my full time job, that's really important. And the second thing is, am I enjoying myself? Can I live as a freelancer? Can I live with the knowledge that I don't have a guaranteed income? Income? And for some people that can be very exciting. You never know from week to week what's going to happen. For other people it's the most frightening thing in the world because they want and need a paycheck every week at the end of two weeks they need to know how much they're going to earn. So I needed to know that I was comfortable with living that kind of lifestyle. Those are the only goals that I had working and, and am I enjoying it? Can I live my life this way? And for me, when I was thinking about trying to break into the New York market, which for acting it certainly is one of the biggest markets in the United States. It was really interesting and I know I'm kind of heading into another area, but this, I think it really pertains to anybody in business. There were a bunch of people who would tell me, look, you live in a small market, they already have a million actors in New York. People were telling me they were afraid that I was going to get my heart broken, that it was going to be too difficult. I'm wasting my time. You're somewhat of a big fish in a small market. Why would you want. And I thanked all these people for having concerns about my cardiac uh, situation here. But I knew that I needed to try it. I knew that if I didn't, I would always be wondering, I wonder if I could work in New York. And the same thing for just getting started in actual acting. And in general, every time I watched a movie, I would be thinking, hey, I wonder if this is something I could have done if I saw a TV commercial. I wonder if I could have done. And I could live by not having any success in my business. I could live with not getting representation in New York. I could live with not working in New York. But what I couldn't live with was having those nightmares of always wondering, wondering, what if? I wonder if I could have done that. And what I did find is that there are people in this world who simply don't want to see other people have success. And they will give you all kinds of reasons why you shouldn't do something. It doesn't make sense. You're taking such a gamble, you're taking a risk. You need something more steady. You can't bank on something like this. And sometimes, maybe it is coming from a good place, from other people who are just concerned. But I did fine. At least in my case, there were people who didn't have the courage to try it, and they didn't want to see anybody else succeed. They did everything they could to prevent me from doing it. And I realized it was a big move. I didn't move to New York. I didn't live there. But I commuted, which is, um, kind of crazy, too. But I knew that I couldn't live my life not knowing if I could have worked in that place, and also just knowing if I could work, work as an actor, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night. And so if I failed at it, I could live with that, but I couldn't live with not knowing. And by not trying. And I think that's true for any kind of entrepreneur or anybody in any kind of business.

Speaker B: I mean, entrepreneurship. It's also about taking risk. And I mean, what you did there was taking on a lot of risk. And it happens all the time in business that people tell you that you're not going to be successful. 98% of businesses fail, and so on. And I've noticed, not just in my case, but in other people, that typically it's the people who are closest to you who for some reason say these things to you. It's very interesting because, I mean, if you think deeply about it, for example, let's say that your father was always too afraid to Start his business. If you are to start, start your business now and somehow you become successful, how is your father going to feel about himself? Right. So, um, this sort of shines light on why some people, as you said, may not want to see you succeed.

Speaker A: It's true. And it could be for, look, like I said, it could be people who just are really concerned. You're married, maybe you've got kids and you're thinking you're going to try to start your own business. Business. You could have been, you know, an accountant working for a firm and now you're selling, you're creating programming for software that you're selling it really, you're going to do this on your own. You're not going to have the insurance that you would get and from the company. Yeah, I mean, and look, it could be from somebody who's really concerned about you. But on the other hand, sometimes people just don't want to see other people succeed in this world.

Speaker B: I'm curious now because obviously you had to let go of your safety and the safety of having a secure, a paycheck to do this. So how did you go about doing that? Did it take courage or was it something that you sort of worked into gradually?

Speaker A: Well, I've never. Actually, the interesting thing was, so I never became a physical therapist. I was about to apply to physical therapy school and so I never had a steady paycheck in my entire life.

Speaker B: You're like me.

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, I never, I uh, never had. Have. And so, uh, yeah, I mean, look, I was thinking, I mean, because I uh, shadowed physical therapists, I spent 300 hours in orthopedic hospitals. So I knew what that world was about. And there were some very attractive things. And studying the body, understanding how it works, healing and helping people. Those were really wonderful things for me. And having a steady paycheck, that sounded incredible. Incredible. But I just knew that actually uh, I just started having dreams of being a very successful physical therapist but not being happy and just kind of being bored with my work and the acting work that I was doing, it felt exciting to me. So it's not like I, uh, honestly, it's not like I gave up this, this job and threw everything in. And look, for a lot of people in the acting world, most people I know do it on a part time basis. And so I think for entrepreneurs as well, look, I think it would be a tough situation to give up a job where you have a family that's dependent on your income to start something brand new and not have any kind of steady income. Uh, that's a difficult situation to be in. But you know, for a lot of people, they do it gradually and they don't make that conversion to full time until they are single, seeing some kind of success. Maybe it's not the success that you need to really live the uh, lifestyle that you want and pay your bills and things like that. But we do testing all the time and I think it would be a good idea to start off small and test things out and see what works, see what doesn't work, see what the realities are and then continue to check in with yourself. And is this, this a way that you can live your life? And if so, then certainly I would say maybe gradually go into things more and more and more. But for me, once again, I was never uh, a real goal oriented kind of person. It's just not how my brain works. Like I know other people. Once again, perfect example, I have a really helpful free acting and modeling, uh, YouTube channel and I post acting and modeling videos up there. So the one that I am about to post, I just finished shooting it. It's about knowing your percentage of auditions to bookings. And I spoke with a couple of people and I know some actors, they have Excel spreadsheets and they list every audition, the date, the wardrobe they were wearing for the audition and whether they booked the job. And they could tell you all the percentages of auditions to bookings things. It's very elaborate and it's very specific. And uh, there was a time period in my life at the beginning of my career. I started doing that and I just found it doesn't matter, it really doesn't. And once again, going back to what we talked about earlier, there are just too many factors that go into booking and not booking a job. And maybe your agent submitted you for a job that you're not really right for, but the agent just wanted to add one other person who doesn't fit the category of that character just to give the casting director another choice, which they probably won't go with. So that's going to skew your numbers if you're really trying to do that. So in this video I just talk about how to me it's a waste of time. Essential for me, once again, I don't want to bother with it. And so yeah, I have never been a real goal oriented person and I've never thought, okay, well this year I need to book this many jobs and I need to have these kinds of high profile types of bookings. So I just find that, that I Keep my heart open. My brain is uh, constantly searching. I'm learning new things and I kind of just take things in and if it feels like I need to do something different, I will. If it feels like I like what's going on, I stay with what I'm doing. And so I don't have that engineer type of brain where everything is calculated and once again not good, not bad. That's just how I do it. So no, I never really had specific, specific long term goals and things like that. I just kind of go with the flow of things and so far I've been pretty fortunate.

Speaker B: Mhm. That's really fantastic. And thank you for sharing about your YouTube channel. We're going to have that down in the show notes so that our listeners can check it out. I have I think two more questions, but before we get there, I mentioned earlier that you are like me because I also never, never had a job. And I find it fascinating when people ask me about how the differences of having a job to running a business because I never knew what having a job is like. I wanted to, I basically got started in business not to make money to start with, but just because I wanted to be in charge of myself and not have somebody tell me what to do. That was my motivation and uh, that's what.

Speaker A: Good motivator.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly. So out of that then of course, then I started to make money and all the rest of it. But basically I always learned that unless I go out there and I do some hunting, so to speak, I don't have anything to eat. And I never know the opposite. I never know that. I never learned the safety basically of having a paycheck.

Speaker A: But tutor, you know, something you said that's so interesting, you started, it wasn't about, about making a ton of money. That wasn't a goal for you. It was really more of doing something that fit your lifestyle and something that you knew would make you a happy person. And I think that is such an important thing for anybody who is trying to start a business. When I'm mentoring people, if I hear people talk about, well, so what made you interested in getting started in the acting or modeling industry? Well, I want to be famous. I want to make a lot of money. I want to own a couple islands in the South Pacific. Specific, you know, I just uh, I'll pause and I'll say, you know what, let me just tell you there are a lot of better ways of trying to make money than by doing this. And if that's your goal, you know, is to make money and get the notoriety. I think might want to check out some other things. And so I just thought that was really interesting that the, you know, the money was not the number one motivator for you.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, I think that money by itself is not a great motivator. Uh, you need something that actually motivates you on an emotional level. And I mean, I always share. I always share this with people. I have one more question now that I wanted to ask you about procrastination. Because I know that a lot of the people in our community deal with procrastination, especially when they have to do cold selling to whoever. Especially if they're going to be an important potential customer. Do you have anything to help. Help people deal with procrastination and basically stop procrastinating and move into the state of mind where they can actually go forth and take action.

Speaker A: I wonder if. Well, number one, I would probably ask what is preventing you from doing this? That would be an important thing for someone to answer for themselves. But here's something else. Maybe try to use your acting skills. And what I mean by that is, look, in my personal life, I'm really more of a shy person. I could be at a party and I'm just the guy standing in the corner. I'm not running around telling people, oh, I worked on this project and I'm an actor and I'm just a quiet guy and like talking with people. But I'm not the life of the party. However, if I need to, I can be the person who jumps up on the table and starts standing. I do have that ability. It's just not in my DNA. So maybe if there is somebody that is uncomfortable, they're feeling nervous about it. Once again, ask yourself why? And try to figure that out. But maybe take on another personality when you're making these phone calls. Maybe it's not just you, it's a character from a movie. And that might help separate some of that uncomfortability and allow you to just do it. There are some very famous actors who talk about they really didn't know who they were as human beings. Everything they did, they were a character. And so, uh, not to say that's a great way to live your life necessarily, but that might be a really interesting approach for someone and really adopt another character when you're making these phone calls. And maybe that will help calm you down a little bit because you feel like, well, it's not me, it's this other Persona who's making these calls.

Speaker B: Mhm that's really fascinating. And related to this, I also had a question because a lot of people inside our audience are doing things that have to do with online marketing and a lot of them have to create video content either for ads or for YouTube. So there is some nervousness there and, um, fear that they don't appear confident in front of the camera. Camera. Do you have any advice for that sort of thing that people can use and basically apply right away to make a difference?

Speaker A: Sure. Well, one thing they can do is contact me and we can have a session and I can help walk people through the process of how to look comfortable in front of a camera, where to look when you're doing your video, what kind of lighting setup do you need, what kind of microphones and things like that, that. But this could be a podcast all by itself, just how to create an effective video for somebody. Because if you don't do this properly and you are uncomfortable and it's showing in the video, it's very difficult to present yourself to the world in a positive way. People can see it. They see the nervousness. And you're supposed to be the expert in this field and you look so uncomfortable. Why would I think to hire somebody like you, I don't trust you when you don't exude that confidence. So in a couple of words, as opposed to doing a full session, in a couple of words, I would say think about people in your life who you care about, and that hopefully if you like these people, then that will translate into this kindness, uh, this confidence in your eyes. Because one of the things that I do for a modeling job, I actually will look away from the camera. And it's a whole technique that I use. And once again, for people who are interested in doing still shots for whether it's a brochure or for an online presence or a thumbnail or whatever it is, you can get in touch with me and we can talk about it. But what I do is I will actually look away from the camera. Camera. I will say a word or two that helps bring a certain emotion running through my brain, which comes out through my eyes. And it might be something as simple as, you're good and then I'll look into the camera, or boy, you're successful, and then look into the camera. And when your brain is actually feeling it, it just sends that information throughout your body and it helps. Helps you look confident and approachable and believable and someone that other people want to work with and be with. And that is such an essential part of having success by showing the confidence, whether it's in a still shot or in a video. And without it, it's going to make your sales so much harder.

Speaker B: Mhm. Thank you for sharing that, Aaron, and for the very kind offer. I also wanted to ask, ask you if there are any sort of training programs or resources that you have that people could purchase and if so, who exactly should be looking into them. Because you see, in my view, these soft skills, and it's really about emotional mastery and effective communication, are the keys to success in pretty much every area of life, if you ask me. And they transfer just as we saw, from acting to business, from, from business to relationships and so on. Do you have anything of that kind that you would want to share with our listeners?

Speaker A: Thank you for asking. I do have virtual, uh, private online mentoring programs and I think the information will be listed. But if you m. Here's the simplest, the simplest address, you can just go to howtomodel.com, h o w t o m o d e l.com and on my website you can not only contact me, you can read about my mentoring program and you can also click on the YouTube icon. You can go to my channel. But yeah, I've helped people in business. I've helped. The uh, last thing I did, I worked with an architectural firm and they're going out and pitching projects to people. And I sat down and I worked with a lot of the employees teaching them how to work better together, how to be more confident when they are making pitches. And it was a really, a very effective thing. And even the CEO was having this huge, huge award and he was being featured in a architectural magazine and he uh, told me I look horrible in pictures. I always look stiff, I look uncomfortable. And so we did a session and I saw his photos. He looked great. And so even for people who say, well, I just don't take pictures, well you can, you really can. And I can show people how to do that. So yeah, please visit my website. You can get to me directly. I'd love to share information with you. And like I said before, before, yes, I'm an actor and a commercial model, but I help people in all different facets of business, including even doing voiceover work or narration for people, whether it's their website or videos or training programs.

Speaker B: That's awesome. Really appreciate you sharing that, Aaron. I'm going to make sure that all the links are available in the show notes so that our listeners can have easy access to them. I have only one final question and this is something that I just ask all the guests because our audience is always curious. Do you have a top five books or resources that really helped you become who you are and that you can share with our listeners? Basically something that would be top five in terms of what you enjoy reading?

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, I wish I had known about this ahead of time. I would have done more research. There are so many different books that I've read that have helped me. But honestly, uh, what I really love reading and I know this is not going to be helpful to people. I love nonfiction books, I really do. I love reading about people. I love reading about history and just learning about how people, uh, have lived in this world. And I just find that it opens me up to understand other people more. And I know I'm not really answering any specifics, I apologize for that. But it really is more of a global answer for me. I just like learning about the world. What I find is when I read about people who grew up in other parts of the world, it helps me see that this world really is a much smaller place. I travel, or at least I used to. Hopefully, uh, pretty soon I can start traveling again and doing in person workshops. And whether I'm in South Africa doing workshops or Australia doing workshops, or Mexico throughout North America, I just find that from everything that I've read, it just allows me to appreciate people who have different customs, different ideas, different maybe different ways of life than me. I don't know. It just makes me feel like we're all human beings here. And yeah, we might do things differently and things like that, but ultimately we're all just human beings trying to live a good life on planet Earth here. And so I'm sorry, I really don't have a specific book to tell you. I like my book how to Become a Successful Actor, a model, but I don't know that that changed my life. But no, like I said, I just really love learning about the world and people and it just gives me a better understanding of folks. It allows me to deal with people in a better way. So personally, I just like non fiction work.

Speaker B: Thank you for sharing that. I do think that it's an important message. There's a lot to learn and you can't exactly pinpoint how it helps you. But just as you said, uh, help is pretty much spread out throughout your entire life and the benefits that you get out of it. So, um, it's definitely very valuable. So I appreciate you sharing that. Do you have any last thoughts or comments that you would like to share with Our listeners before we end here.

Speaker A: Yeah, I would. And first of all too, I just wanted to say thank you so much for reaching out to me. This has been.

Speaker B: The pleasure is mine.

Speaker A: Uh, it's been such a lovely. I just love the way that you hear answers and then respond back to them. It's really great. I've had a really, really nice time with you. Hey, if I was just going to leave one thing for all the listeners, here's what it is, is this is something I learned a long time ago. No doesn't mean never. And I think in any business it's really important. Like we had touched on earlier, you can't take anything personally in this business. And it is true. No doesn't mean never because there have been places that have said no to me a lot of times. And look, you keep staying in touch with people and you keep getting back in touch and you maybe off offer new ideas all of a sudden. Not to say that it's going to change, but it's happened to me a number of times where I've applied to certain agencies, they've said no. And for whatever reason, maybe now they like my headshot more, they like my resume more. Maybe the other agent that it said no to me, they're no longer working there. Maybe they need more people of my type, who knows? But no doesn't mean never. And so if that happens to you, you just keep going and keep moving forward and try to learn from every experience, both positive and negative. And most importantly, just enjoy what you're doing. Uh, otherwise it's really tough to put in the kind of work that we all do. Anybody who has a successful business, you have to put in the time and appreciate the people around you who have helped you and have helped you move. Make yourself successful as well.

Speaker B: That's a great message and thank you for sharing the. It's really about the power of perseverance and that's really inspiring. Thank you Aaron for coming on. It's been a pleasure and I think that this episode is going to be super valuable to our audience. So thank you very much and for our listeners, stay tuned, tuned for the next episode and until next time. Remember to keep growing your business and providing massive value to the world. You are the reason why we're all growing richer, our freedoms are expanding and we're all living in greater prosperity. Thank you,

Speaker A: Sam. Mhm.