250 Episodes: What Leading Through the Mess Actually Teaches You

Speaker A: Today we're going to talk a little bit about the pursuit and the learning and the journey that we've been on for the last eight years. 250 episodes have taught me what it takes for a leader to thrive. The ones who build something lasting, the ones who create something generational, the ones who create something that outlives the title on the card are the ones who stop trying to carry it alone. They found that when people carry it with them, it allowed them to go further. We want to be with you to help you carry your success, your life, and your impact further. Thank you all for joining me in episode 250. Um, what a great episode 249 was. And one of the last things that my dad shared with me when we stopped, ah, right as we were beginning to stop episode, bring the episode 249 to a close. Um, he talked about the example that Tony Evans shared with him at a large Promise Keepers event. A man who he's never known, but a man who he listens to and reads about often. And you heard in that last episode that our family vision and mission, um, is to help people in their businesses, careers and personal lives. Connecting with resources and the tools and the relationships to help people improve their businesses, careers and personal lives. My dad also talked about the impact of being a godly man. And the impact of being a godly man first sets up your life to be a godly husband, father, friend, and business leader. And it's been an amazing journey these last eight years. Um, 250 episodes. Um, and today we're going to talk a little bit about the pursuit and the learning and the journey that we've been on for the last eight years. So I'm sitting with you now to talk about and welcome you to episode 250 of the unconventional Leadership Podcast. I'm, um, your host, Mike Sippel Jr. And today it's just you and I. I've been thinking about what to say in this episode for a very long time. Episode 249 and episode 250 have been something that I've been planning and thinking about for a long time. Well over a year. Um, just about two years. Little did I know that as the timing, um, and God's divine timing on the design of these episodes, that I would be releasing episode 249 on my dad's birthday and a week before our 51st anniversary. And then now episode 250, we're officially in year 51. So for the last year, we've been celebrating our 50th year of our family business. And every time I tried to plan this and tried to outline this and tried to make it something polished and produced, it just felt, um, unnatural. So I thought, you know what? I'm not going to do a lot of planning for episode 250. I'm going to speak from my heart. I'm going to ask myself questions and reflect on some of those questions that I've been asked by many of you. In fact, I was just sitting with someone last week who asked me, Mike, out of your 250 episodes, who are your two favorite guest, top two favorite guests? My real answer to that is, I don't have a top two. I have a top 249. Um, but it's so hard because every conversation has been so powerful and I've learned so much. I do have guests that I've revisited based on your interest. So we've brought back guests that you showed a high interest based on the topics they were discussing. I've built off of those topics that they were discussing and brought in other guests to bring in additional angles, which is a whole part of our purpose of this podcast is not to give one line of thinking and convince you on the perfect way to lead, because there is no perfect way to lead. What we've been doing for eight years is bringing in different, um, different guests to speak different angles on some of the same topics. Um, so we've learned from you in that, and we've brought in some guests. There's no doubt there's been some top episodes that we've brought in people multiple times. Two, three times. One person, um, Daniel Wechter, I think he's been on eight times. Um, Mehmet Yuksik has been on three times. Uh, James Biro has been on two or three times. Um, Dr. Janet Reid was on twice. Um, her first episode is still one of my favorites, but so is Dr. Karen Bankston. Episode one is still one of my favorite episodes. As early as it was, um, even those top seven, those first seven episodes we recorded with ever releasing an episode. So we were putting those episodes, um, in our stack to be released. And we learned a lot from the first seven episodes and got better in the next seven episodes. But episode, um, reaching 250 episodes has taught me more than anything that it's important convert. It's an important conversation that we just have the dialogue and we play off the honest discussions that we're having with leaders who listen to episodes and give us feedback as well as listen to the times. Um, so a Lot of these discussions are just honest, real dialogues. Um, and so that's what this is, an hour of honesty from me to you, to the leaders and colleagues and clients and friends who have been with me on this journey. Um, this one is for you. So episode 250. For me, it's not just the number, it's really a true milestone. So where we've been the last eight years, what's gone on since 2018 to 2026, um, is quite remarkable. Um, it's been a eight year journey of me stepping into a CEO position. It's been lots of ups and downs, lots of market challenges, lots of industry challenges, team growth, transition, um, and personal growth in transition. It's been filled with loss, it's been filled with celebration, um, it's been filled with emotion that are both negative and positive. And today, um, as I sit here thinking about it, like, who's in the room with me today? Um, today with me is the leader who wants to continue to grow and to stand out as an unconventional leader. The Unconventional Leadership podcast actually started out as the Talent Magnet Institute podcast. As we were launching a brand new. As we went through that journey and we started evaluating what are these episodes really about, we came up with the phrase unconventional leadership and it's turned into a movement about unconventional leadership. So sitting here with you as a leader who wants to learn how to lead unconventionally, how to stand up and step into leadership, and how to be more personal, impersonable, how to understand self awareness beyond just the assessment, but what does that look like and what is the impact and also the challenge? Some of you have been on faith journeys with us, some of you have been on personal journeys, some of you have been evaluating retirement succession, transition, um, stepping out and starting your own entrepreneurship journey yourself, um, and what an honor it is to hear how these episodes have hit you and met you right where you needed to be. You know, my dad handed to me, um, at the end of the conversation, a challenge to continue to be, you know, Michael, continue to lead faith forward, faith focused, um, and just continue to care for people. Right? You heard in a lot of our journeys, um, and a lot of those conversations how longstanding our relationships are. Um, uniquely. As we were prepping for the release of episode 249, one of the clients that was referenced in the episode, um, just hired us to help go through another succession plan. So we've had the pleasure of working with teams that go through kind of multiple chapters in their own story because we work with and have relationships with people and trust building relationships with people where they want us to be with them on the journey. And that's a big part of what the unconventional leadership podcast stands for, is not to show up and have you listen to one episode, but to walk alongside of you in your journey and have these topics and content areas meet you where you are. If you remember our very first intro to this podcast, it talked about the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. That this was going to be a, uh, podcast that had conversations with people about their highest of highs and their lowest of lows. And we've done that. We've had people share some really dark story and dark moments in their lives, and we've also talked about how they navigated through that. We've talked about some of the highest celebrations in your career that then three weeks later turn into some of the greatest challenges that you ever had to confront. We've had people talk about amazing leaders that you and I know in the marketplaces, that we and authors, um, that we know, that we've read about who talked about that terminal illness, that terminal diagnosis and how that's transformed their life or what that led to a loss. Um, that leadership confrontation that turned into something that built into someone's soul as to who they are today based on the confrontation that they had to face directly forward at some point in their career. Eight years ago, I couldn't have told you what this journey was going to become. Um, I had a conviction. I had people around me telling me that they believed I should be doing this. Um, I also had some personal reflection as to if we were going. I remember talking to, um, my father and a couple of our board members. Like, if I'm going to lean in to an authentic story and help leaders hear authentic journeys, there's going to be things shared that could ultimately impact the decision of somebody engaging with our firm. They may not believe my beliefs, they may not believe the approach that I would take or suggest. They may not believe in one of the guests that we have on um and you know what? Eight years later, we haven't had, um, what I would say any necessarily negative ramifications, but we sure have had some really deep, dark and important discussions. I had a conviction with that microphone and a belief that leaders needed something different. Not another podcast about productivity hacks, although I love those. Not another podcast on morning routines or, um, health hacks, although I love those too. But something that would sit with you in a real thing, something that would meet you in your loneliness, something that would, um, speak to you in a period of personal or professional exhaustion, um, the weight of carrying a vision that only you can fully see. I personally deal with that often as an entrepreneur that has a vision for something of where we're going and what we're hoping for. And some days, even those closest around me can't fully see it. But 250 episodes later, here's what I know. That conviction that I had to step into this was right. And the people who showed up and who continue to show up, um, to share with us their own stories. The guest, the listeners who tune in, who send me a text about an impact of a comment or a question or a challenge or an encouragement or a suggestion of a topic we could go deeper in, or. I wish you would ask this question as a lead up into your next conversation about a similar topic. The leaders who have trusted us, who have sat across from me with very little preparation, I will add, um, because I want real stories, um, and the reasons that those stories exist, um, I also have friends who have been uber patient with me, um, because they weren't invited to join. Um, the one thing with a podcast, there's only so many episodes we can release. People, um, so some people have been really patient with me and waited out, um, if, if their time comes to be invited, I'll say yes, um, in an episode in season three. Um, I've had some of those friends on who have been waiting eight years to join, and I certainly feel like their story was more relevant now than if it would have, um, taken place six, five years ago. Um, so I thank you for that. I also, um, in some of this reflection, um, this podcast has really been a labor of love and financial investment. So the podcast, it takes a art and it takes a creative genius. I've been so blessed by the teams that have supported me. I've had three different production teams who have been behind us. One that helped us get launched m out of Quebec, Canada, called One Stone Creative. Um, I had a team led by CEO Amanda Faust out of Indianapolis. Um, that actually was during the journey of coming up with the new brand of the Unconventional leadership podcast. I'm forever thankful to Amanda and Carly, who still works with us today, um, five and a half years later. Thank you, Carly. Um, and now with the Cincinnati podcast studio bringing video, taking the audio is one thing, but I will tell you, going from tens of thousands to hundreds of thousands of listens and impressions to video, which has now pushed us well over into hundreds and hundreds, uh, of thousands to millions of impressions, um, absolutely blows me Away. Um, the video and the impact of video has changed everything. Like I recently have had even some of you say oh, I didn't know you've been podcasting for a year. Simple. Um, I just saw it recently in a video and it's like well we've been podcasting for eight years so please go back and listen to some amazing topics from the past. Um, and yet video amplifies um, which has been an incredible experience. So eight years, 250 episodes. As we go into season four this next act, um, we also are honored by um being asked about the interest and um, the interest and the enthusiasm about gaining sponsors for the podcast. So we're going to be announcing some sponsors that are coming on um to the podcast. 1 um, episode 249, um was brought to you by the Living Room in Norwood. And uh, we're very thankful to have them on as a partner. We're also going to be announcing um, Xavier's executive MBA program joining us as a partner. Um, we've had a partnership with the Colorado Symphony. Yes, the Colorado Symphony and we've had some amazing episodes. Um, and the Colorado Symphony recently provided uh a sponsorship. We have a list of other brands and partners like Ballast for Leaders, Refuge foundation, um, Dappled Light. These are all just simply partners that are. They're not sponsors but they're partners that we believe are in this kind of work together, providing space, providing a. Um Camp Joy is another partner of our organization that are just. They're just partners who align to the vision, who we believe in their mission and we believe there's uh, it's better to work together than apart. Um, so excited about that, more to come on those sponsorships and um also the opportunity uh, to gain and to join our sponsorships. The demographic data that has been highlighted by the lift to millions of impressions and listeners and followers is we serve kind of the middle market leader, the mid range leader who's looking to learn how to lead more effectively, elevate into their next step of leadership, transition into the succession plan where they're now the leader at the helm and they're looking for ways to improve themselves, their teams, the world around them. Uh, which is also really humbling to see that data of like, yep, these are the leaders that we hoped would show up with us and walk with us in this journey. We know that hosting the important meetings in the right space is a key component of great outcomes for you and your team. And because of that I am excited that the Living Room is sponsoring the unconventional Leadership podcast. For over 12 years, the Living Room in Cincinnati has created truly intentional environments for everyone from Fortune 500 companies to small organizations and churches. Think stunning historical buildings, natural lighting, full on site hospitality, and curated home cooked meals that elevate every gathering. Because when your environment is right, your outcomes are better. Visit hellolivingroom.comunconventional today and book your next meeting. So eight years ago I had a picture in my mind of what success at 250 would look like. I've been blown away, um, by what 250 looks like. I could have never have told you what this picture was going to look like based on where I'm sitting today. I had a dream, I had a thought. I never thought we'd be looking at millions, um, of numbers. Never, um, in my mind. Like, I just remember releasing the first few episodes and six friends sending me a text saying, that was awesome. And I remember, uh, one of my friends who was a guest in season three, Sharma Lee, Ready, um, sharing with me. It was her favorite podcast to run to and that was really powerful to be told that by such a good friend who was keeping up with the episodes on her weekly runs. Like, who you're actually investing. You actually want me in your ear while you're running, um, X amount of miles. I remember my buddy Craig Todd, um, just encouraging me with the conversations. Like he, not only was he listening, he was listening to the entire thing and he was listening for intent and for vision and he would come back with, hey, this is something you said. I didn't know that about that person or that story that you told. Um, let me tell you an example of where that hit me. Um, I recently had a text from, um, another guest in season three, um, who said, mike, it's funny, um, your podcast helped me heal myself a bit. Um, her and I talked a lot about self leadership and she put it's a journey and a commitment and that's what this has been that couldn't define better. What, eight years. It's been a journey and it's been a commitment. So, um, who do I. A couple questions got submitted for this and just some questions that I hear out in the world that I thought I would answer with you. So, um, who do I think was listening in year one and who do I know is listening now? So year one, I knew my mom would be one of my most avid listeners. What podcaster doesn't say that? Um, I knew my family would be listening. I knew my wife would work really hard to try to keep up with the episodes um, today, as I was on my way to the studio, my oldest son made a comment about an episode we just released eight years ago. My oldest son was 10. I certainly didn't think he'd be listening when he was 18 or 19. Uh, it's pretty cool that he is. Um, I knew my closest friends would try to keep up. Um, I didn't know my closest friends would be this damn excited to be invited to be a guest eight years later. Um, I knew our clients would pick up on the stories and hear. Little did I know the impact of them being on having clients on the episode, what that would mean for them, their employment brand, their team, um, their internal morale boost about, like, telling their successful stories. Um, I didn't know that people who were associated to various brands and organizations that those brands and organizations would reach out and thank me for having that alumni, that donor, that advisor, that team member on our podcast. Um, so I didn't know the. The. I'd say the little bit of the viability that would be happening. I never really thought about it, to be honest. Um, I didn't think about the. The layers of people who would show up and make comments. See me at a restaurant as I'm giving my name for a reservation, and somebody coming up to me and saying, hey, did you say your mic's a bull? I follow your podcast. I recently interviewed an individual for a job for our team, and she said, mike, I know your name because my dad listens to your podcast. Um, I was recently at a dinner, and that same dad, who's a very prominent leader in our marketplace, um, I introduced myself to him and his wife, and I've met him before and never met his wife. And, um, he shared with me about some recent episodes that he listened to, and his wife said, I know your voice because my husband listens to your podcast so much. Um, blown away by it, to be frank. Um, another question I get asked is, what do you think the mission was then versus what it is now and versus what I understand it now? Um, I knew I was on a mission to tell authentic stories. And I know from our relationship that leaders need a place to hear authentic stories. I know how many leaders lead lonely and how leaders would value an authentic story that they go, thank goodness I'm, um, not the only one. So that was one of those missions when Dr. Janet Reed, I talk about it often when she was like, mike, the conversations you have with people over coffee are conversations people need to hear. And one way to do it is to write a book. The other way to do it to be, to do this thing called podcasting. And that's what led me to saying, you know, what? Are you sure? And, um, the affirmation I got from our board at that time is like, you should lean into this man. There's an opportunity to tell stories that leaders are going to go. That's what I needed to hear. That's the affirmation I needed. That's the kick in the pants I needed. That's the story I needed to hear to know I'm not alone. I did not know it would turn into this vision of a movement about unconventional leadership. So, highlighting the power of unconventional, highlighting the. What, uh, is unconventional to you? What does that mean to you? How does that show up? What was unconventional about this approach? What could you have done versus what's the unconventional approach that you decided to take? So I'm listening and looking for unconventional leadership stories. Somebody who leaned into something that was uncomfortable, that was unnatural. Someone who took a step beyond, you know, to be frank, somebody who wanted to step into intentional leadership. Somebody who saw self aware. Uh, I have seen so many people who act or think like they're self aware, who have no idea or any care of the impact they have on people, versus the leaders who know that and who almost train every day to show up differently, uh, to make leadership a one to one sport and interaction. Those are the unconventional leaders that we want to talk about. So I want to be honest about what building this required, because if I stand up here at episode 250 and only tell you about the wins, I'm not doing what this podcast has, has asked of our guest, which is to tell the truth and be honest and authentic. Um, so what has this required of me personally, relationally, professionally that I didn't anticipate? Um, one, it's a major time investment. Um, little do most people know that up until about six months ago, um, most of the work post production was myself. So I've been doing this like nights and weekends for a long time. Um, recently my team encouraged me, like it might be time to delegate some of this and to have us take over some of the burden of execution. Um, so I'm very thankful for our team helping with that. Um, our production teams have always been great about doing what they can do and helping and support. So the partnerships have been amazing. And um, personally it does take time and energy. So I curate every single guest. Um, no guest gets in here or gets by me without me learning, uh, their story, spending time with them, knowing them um, I've had authors, I've had other podcasters. I've had other, um, kind of prominent characters in HR leadership, um, authentic areas of personal and professional leadership. Um, but I've gotten to know them before I've invited them on. Um, I only have one episode, two episodes that I recorded that we never released based on, um, timing and stories changing, um, or dynamics changing, um, and that's kind of complicated when that takes place. So, yes, I've had a few episodes I actually have in the bank that will never be released, um, because of life changes, business, uh, leadership changes that just made the story not feel right to release based on what took place. Um, again, I have amazing leaders and friends who listen to these episodes that have your own story. I just haven't been able to have you on yet. So one of my hopes and dreams right now we're at every other week. Um, eventually we'll get back to every week. The big dream is two a week. Um, but in order to do that, I've got to have some sponsors and partners show up to help me get there in order to carry that lift. Um, relationally, there is a component. When you're an author or a podcaster, there's a bit of a personality, um, you take on for the world. And my hope is that relationally, I've remained authentic into who I am, um, that I've remained vulnerable. If anything, I've become more vulnerable and emotional with you, my guests, because I love you. I want what's best for you. I know you want what's best for us. Um, professionally, it has helped, um, in ways. It's grown me as a leader. It's made me show up. I remember, gosh, four and a half years ago, I remember I was talking a lot about health and burnout, and I was unhealthy and burnout. Right. I remember talking to my team, like, I got to do something different. I can't sit here and be authentic to a guest where I feel like crap and I'm not exercising and I'm not healthy. Um, emotionally, I wasn't as healthy at times, spiritually, in the last eight years. So that journey of, like, realism and experiencing life as it goes, loss, um, my loss of my sister, uh, two years ago really impacted me. Of course you would say, well, of course it would, Mike. But when you're a, you know, call it on air personality, um, I didn't expect it to hit me that hard, so I took a break. Um, I've had a couple breaks in here. Um, I Took a break around that topic. That's when Josh Lewis and Brian Erickson kind of reached out to me about like, hey, when you're ready to go back on, we'd like to be there to support you and like to ramp into the video. And that was during a break and I came out like, all right, I'm ready now. Right? So, um, the gone in 60 seconds. Like, let's go, let's tackle this thing. Um, um, so the anticipation of growth, I didn't anticipate the amount of loss and dynamics that would go on the last eight years. Um, you know, taking over a business in a downturn was a wild ride. Um, making huge investments, starting a brand, um, building. I have a few other brands, multiple brands, smaller brands that, ah, we have now that take investment. The podcast takes investment, takes time, takes energy, takes financial resources, um, takes time away of other things too. So I didn't anticipate that. It's one of the reasons why we dial back to every other week because we're growing, our businesses are growing. My children are getting older, um, again, my oldest is going to be turning 19 in July. I have a 16 year old who was only 8. I have a 14 year old who was only 6 when we started this podcast. Um, now they're freshmen in college, junior in high school and freshman in high school. Um, that's been incredible, right? So life takes many, many forms and takes on lots of, um, experiences. Um, you know, I've built leadership teams. I've had to deconstruct some of my teams and kind of rebuild in that startup journey. I had to raise equity during this journey, um, for one of our for Talent Magnet Institute. I had to bring on investors, I had to bring on board members, I had to adjust board members. Um, I had to navigate down economies and change. That creates lack of confidence for our customers, that slows down business throughput, um, and all of those things professionally anticipating. Didn't anticipate all of it, but had to make real decisions. I remember our first big break where we stopped recording. Our team was just at a moment where it was like, we can't handle another thing. And I had to prioritize. So if you remember, I brought um, a season to a close and I said, like today, I think the episode was I quit. Um, that was a really popular episode, by the way, when you phrase something as I quit, um, I had to quit. I had to stop recording for a season. I knew we were going to come back, which I mentioned in the episode, like, we'll be Back. I don't know when, I don't know how long, but we will be back. And quite honestly, I had a couple of friends who were like, you should have never stopped recording. Man, these episodes are so good. I hear so much about them. You need to get back on. You need to get back on the microphone. We kicked off. We did end up. I think it was six or eight months later, we launched back into it. Um, and then we brought another break in a season of loss that I was going through. And, um, you know, that whole personal health journey. I'm a healthier person today than I've ever been. Um, I actually hit a personal. A PR this week with squats, uh, with my trainer, um, and my team. Uh, thank you, R. Kelly, Ryan Kelly, for pushing me to lift more this week than I've ever lifted. Um, but I've also been up and down on a health perspective. Um, I've been a huge advocate for Peloton. Peloton. That whole community has gotten me through some moments of getting back on the bike, getting back on the tread, getting back in the classes. And, um, I'm very thankful for that. But I learned a lot about that, because I can't sit here and talk to you about being holistically healthy and unlocking your full potential if you're not caring for yourself personally, relationally, spiritually. Um, we can't be our whole selves unless personal, relational, and spiritual is there, because it's a. It's a stack. Like, if I'm not spiritually healthy, I can't be personally and relationally healthy. And if I can't be personally, relationally healthy, I can't be professionally healthy and authentic? Huge learning for each and every one of us there. There was another question about, um, Mike, was there a season where I was pouring into leaders through the microphone while running on empty, and you're like, you're damn straight. I was. Um, and I really appreciate people kind of pointing it out. I've got some friends, um, Mamet Yukcik, in particular, Chris Painter, Jonathan Theaters, Tara Halpin, Lee Bushman, um, Brent Rippey, who do a great job checking in with each other personally. And I'm in. Howard Kaplan. I can't, um, not mention Howard's name. Um, and I appreciate you guys pointing out to me when you felt like something was off with simple, because those moments of something being off with Sipple, if you see it, my audience sees it, and I've talked about it and I've had those guests on, and we've talked about those journeys in particular. Um, so another question was, was there anything that's nearly made me stop? Um, and I don't think so. I mean, I did mention, um, business priority, financial decisions, emotional roller coasters brought me to pause, but I never paused with the energy of this is It. Um, and I hope that that continues. Episode 250. I feel like I say it often, like, we're just getting started, baby, here we go. Right? Um, but nothing made me feel like I wanted to stop as much as I felt like I wrestled with that first break. Um, because I didn't believe it and I needed to listen to my team to go. Yeah, you're right. Um, um, we are handling a lot at one time. Um, um. It's probably why I've compartmentalized the podcast a little bit in the past where I've, like, put on the backpack is one of my guests, Joe Moats. Um, defined in his episode along, you know, probably 150 episodes ago, he talked about the leader's backpack, that sometimes we just take one's burden and we stick it in our backpack. Sometime we take our own burden and we stick it in our backpack. I feel like that backpack at times has become a rucksack where I'm carrying a lot of weight, and that's the intent. Like, I'm just going to carry a lot of weight and that's going to be okay. There's other times where that weight's been a little too heavy. And, um, so that's kind of, um, a. A little bit of a leadership analogy for me. When your backpack turns into your rucksack, you know, game's on, and how long am I going to be carrying it? There's been other times where it's like, you know what? I probably need to set this down and rehydrate. Take a. Take a second, add some more energy, add some fuel, and, um, let that weight sit for a little while. Um, and that's, you know, we can all learn in that, right? Um, another question is the, uh, have I ever, like, second guessed or had doubt around the decisions of topics or guests? And the answer is absolutely not. Um, I have been really, call it convicted at times to have guests on to talk about key topics. That's been a real important part, uh, for me, and I'm very grateful of my spreadsheet that I've got all kinds of notes and footnotes and asterisks and, um, I keep track of the world that I'm in, and I listen for topics and speakers. When you Podcast, you think in podcasting terms. So the stories I hear, the opportunities I hear, um, I think about how that. How that can impact our listeners. The conversations. What conversations? With leaders, actually, um, the difference of when you're thinking of them and when they're in person. So here's what happens when I sit across the hundreds of leaders in studios, and I want to first give people the permission to be real. So I see patterns, I see impact. I look for impact. I constantly look for the impact. What's the impact that leader's story that I know from people who have been on this person's team? What's the impact of their story? I know the impact of many of my guests that they've had on hundreds, if not thousands, if not tens of thousands of people in the organizations they've led. They may not see it because they're in the trench. They're walking alongside of everyone. Um, but I love to watch the patterns and the impact of people. Um, I also like to look for the authenticity of people. So, like, what's their real story and what's their real life like? Um, because I want to have people on who are working and understand and recognize some component of the calculation of spiritual, professional, personal. Like, how are they? What's the impact of these stories on all aspects of their life? And some we lean into, others focus solely. We don't hit all three. Um, we don't hit business careers and personal lives on every episode, but by golly, we are going to hit on personal, um, as much as we can, because that's where all of this really shows up, in my opinion. Um, that interior life of a leader, um, burnout's real, exhaustion's real. That internal life is so important, and so often that internal life is. Becomes our maturity. It's where we learn there may be people who have the greatest, um, professional Persona, who are broken inside. I've had the distinct pleasure being in the executive search industry for 20, uh, gosh, 28 years, 27 years. Um, I sit across from leaders who are broken, who wish they wouldn't have taken that promotion, who wish they wouldn't have changed jobs, who wish they would have dialed back and not stepped up because of personal things that were going on in life. But they felt like that was their only answer. And so we talk about that, right? Um, you know, we've all heard the analogy that. So, you know, there's so many people who reflect on, I climbed the ladder, I climbed the mountain, I got to the top and looked around and said, well, shit, Nobody's here with me. And I'm lonely. I don't even know where, what mountain I'm on. I don't even know what I just went through. I just did everything I could to get here. And I applaud people who have those honest reflections. And I think we all can learn from that, like purpose, purpose, decisions, process, and how that impacts you personally and professionally. It's a lot of P's. Um, that's holistic, baby. Like, that's the holistic leader that we're looking to come alongside of that's unlocking human potential. Um, it doesn't mean just climb, climb, climb. And I hope you've never listened to an episode that you felt like that's what we're advocating for. Because we're advocating for the personal tough decision to say, nope, I'm going to take a break. I'm going to take a pause. I'm going to go this way because there's more friction this way. But I know that's where my heart's leading me. I'm going to lean into the friction. I'm going to lean into the conflict. A great leader, an unconventional leader, leans into conflict, does not step back. So leaning into the conflict, having the tough discussion is what we're actually called to do. You know, conflict avoidance. I've been there, I've tried that game and it doesn't work. And I love when we have those conversations with our, with our guest. Hiring an executive shouldn't feel like taking a gamble. When you need a leader who will actually move the needle. The stakes are far too high for guesswork. Centennial has placed successful executives for over 50 years with a 98% client referral rate and decades of deep client reflection relationships. We know how to find leaders who deliver results. Our proven 4C recruiting process connects you with the candidates who bring the character, culture, chemistry and competence to drive your vision forward. Let's find your next game changer. Visit centennialinc.com to start the conversation. Leaders are not struggling because they lack strategy or they lack business knowledge. They're struggling because they're carrying something that no one them can fully see. They've been told, um, and they've been told either explicitly or implicitly that asking for help might be a sign of weakness, which is bullshit. We need to be asking for help. We need to create a safe space. So that's part of what we do when we talk about helping you connect with the resources needed to improve your businesses, careers and personal lives. It's also to create a safe Space. If any of you are in our masterminds, or you've been coached by us, or you've worked with us on executive searches, or you've engaged with us, or you're just a friend of mine, hopefully you know that we're trying to create safe space in everything we do. The Unconventional leadership podcast is a safe space for a leader to show up, for a leader to submit a question to me of, hey, can you go. Can you connect me with that guest that you just had on? Because I'd like to talk further. Or Mike, I'd love to have a lunch with you to talk about something I heard you recently say. Um, I remember having a really dear client of mine mention about a episode that she took to her, uh, she took into a board meeting and they listened at the time of audio. Pure, um, audio. They listened to the excerpt from one of our, uh, podcasts in her board meeting to hit a point that she felt like people were missing. Um, that's powerful, and I'm very grateful for that, um, when we started this podcast, because we believe that these spaces need to exist and that you need a place that allows you to be 100% authentic with yourself and with others. Um, so after millions of impressions and millions of reaches, um, you know, I'm going to be honest that there are moments where that number feels so abstract and odd to me. Um, I was just recently looking at some analytics and, like, it's unbelievable. Um, and you know what we're going to do? We're going to just keep doing this approach and having authentic dialogues, because that's what's creating the connection to the unconventional leadership movement. That's what our brands are building into, is just authentic relationships matter. And you're showing up in a way that, um, gives me a little affirmation that we're on the right track. Um, they will tell you in podcasting, never look at your metrics. Um, and that's. There's so, so much truth to that. Just focus on being authentic. Who gives a care about the numbers? You know, when you look at numbers and you think of ten leaders listening, um, I was just, just looking at numbers and, um, as I tell you not to look at numbers, but when I look at the hours listened per month, it blows me away. How many hours invested into our content, some for 16 seconds, some for 10 minutes, some for 32 minutes, some very rare. Get to the back end of the episodes, which, I'll tell you, they're always packed full of great values. You should start listening all the Way through. Um, but when you look at the numbers, the pure numbers, it's just humbling. And I just have to say, just stay focused. Don't worry about that. Focus on your next guest. Focus on now season four. And just keep having great conversations. Um, and I'm grateful that that's where my heart is. I'm just going to keep having great conversations. I'm going to align to our values, do what we do, call out great leadership, lead faith forward, leave faith focused, lead with care and authenticity. And I'll be excited about the team that we collect along the way. The team of listeners, the team of partners, the team of sponsors, the team of guests, the team of alumni, the team of future guests, the team of advocates. Um, uh, and I'm really grateful for each one of you being on the team. Every episode, um, naturally, has been recorded by a real person, um, with real doubts and real energy and real hope that something in this discussion will lead a leader to a place or to a topic that they need right now in the week or the day or the minute or the second that they listen to an episode. And that's still true today. Um, here's the truest thing I can say about what this journey's made to me, uh, has meant to me, is I'm a better leader. I'm a better business partner. I hope I'm a better father, a better husband, a better son, a better brother. Ah, a better friend and a better human being because of the people who have trusted me with their stories and who have also encouraged me, who have sat across from me and challenged me in either something they said or a direct question they asked, or a thought or a perspective that made me reflect and go, I could have. I could have done that better when I was in that situation. So the real failures, the real chaos, the real pivots, the moments of profound success and the moments of profound loss, all of it speaks to the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. You know that original introduction, we are going to talk about the highest of highs and the lowest of lows if we do this podcast. That's where we're going to go with it. Um, and what would I tell the version of me, um, back then? I would just say, like, hold on, you have. I had no idea where this was going to take me. I had a hope of where it was going to take you. Um, but, man, we've been on this journey together. Um, I don't want to spend this whole hour looking back. Um, but it has been fun and it's only gonna get more exciting. Um, it's what is still in front of us that motivates me. It's what's in front of us that you and I don't even know yet. It's what's in front of us where leaders are fighting battles that are very real and very rarely talked about. It's exactly, that's exactly where we're going next. Like, there's a lot that may happen in the coming weeks, months and years that we don't know. Um, I'm hoping that you're going to join me in those discussions and we're going to have guests who join us in those discussions to talk about those things that we're going to approach. Where, you know, I can turn to the unconventional leadership podcast to hear something to motivate me. Like, recently we had an episode that talked about sleep and the impact of sleep on health with Jessica Morris and John, uh, Bob Willis. That episode has spoken to so many of you about the power of sleep. Um, because I remember there's leaders that I know, um, some who have retired, some who haven't, who pride themselves on the lack of sleep they get. And, um, you know, so guess what I've been working on the last three and a half, four and a half years is more sleep is better sleep. I actually engaged Jessica Morris to help me, and one of my goals was to increase my, um, my sleep and my energy levels and to not show up so exhausted. Um, to not, not start my day exhausted because I didn't get good sleep. And leaders need energy and leaders need authenticity, and leaders need enthusiasm to lead well. And again, that's a great topic of like, it resonated with you too, because we all need to get better in that category and how that impacts our energy level and how that impacts how we show up. So talk about something real, something I see in almost every leader we work with, almost every guest who sat across from me, almost every conversation that starts his business and ends up somewhere much more important. Um, and I'm grateful that you all rally behind this topic. I'm grateful that our roundtable programs, our coaching engagements, um, our leadership discussions where we connect with clients all over the United States on projects relating to succession and next generation leadership teams and hiring the next C suite leader or board member or vice president or key director, um, working with teams, sitting across from teams that we just met because their organization just engaged us who share like leadership is so lonely and not in the way that people talk about loneliness. Not, I don't have any friends, lonely. Although if you feel that way, you know, from. If you've sat in any of my speeches, uh, when I'm in front of a crowd, like, if you don't have someone to call your 3am friend, you can call me. But I mean the specific, particular loneliness of being the person who has to hold the vision, who has to hold the culture, who has to protect the people who report to you when everyone else is tired and exhausted. The person who can't fully unload because it's your job to have all the answers and it's your job for everyone to unload on you because you're that person in that role. Um, so you don't have a place to fully open up and be transparent, but you do with us. The person who goes home at night still carrying everything that didn't get resolved in that day. And I'm guilty as charged on that topic. And alongside the loneliness is exhaustion. Not just physical tiredness, but the exhaustion that comes from carrying emotional weight, it and strategic weight and relational weight simultaneously, often without anyone around you who fully understands what you're going through. Um, I feel all of that that I just delivered. I'm grateful that you're. That you're that community for me. We know there's a heavy cost as a leader. We also know that I don't want you to ever feel alone and that there's separation because of that leadership and that. That torch you decided to grab and say yes to, that vision that you're carrying with you, that culture and team that you're working so hard to protect and to invest in. As long as you keep focusing on unlocking your potential and the potential of those inside your team. As long as you recognize the privilege of employing human beings and you want to step in and lead intentionally in that privilege and also have a place to carry the burden of that privilege. Um, we're with you. That's why your, um, you know, call it membership alignment. Um, association with the Unconventional Leadership Movement and the Unconventional Leadership Podcast and Centennial Executive Search and Talent Magnet Institute matters so much to me. It's so personal. This whole brand vision that you heard in 249 of connecting business leaders to improve their businesses, careers and personal lives, that's been a mission of our family business for as long as I've ever been in it. Uh, you heard my dad reference. It's like the origin story, baby, this is what we do. Um, and that's what we want to continue to provide. So my team, my partners, our Customers, the relationships that we have, like, we're in it to lock down together and support one another. Something that drives a lot of this is what drives what we do. There's no separating your business life from your personal life. There's no version of you that exists at work, that's disconnected from the version of you that exists at home. And if you think it is, it's total. There is no disconnection. You are who you are, and we need to create environments where we invite people to be who they are. Right. Bringing your whole self to work, um, is a bunch of bull for most, um, and we're trying to help you recognize, like, what that really means. What does that really mean when someone is struggling, when we're both struggling, when we've had conversations that started as a business strategy call that became something entirely different. We've had leaders ask if we could stay on the phone a few minutes after the rest of them get off the call. Not to talk about their business or their team structure, but to talk about something they couldn't talk to anyone else about. And that is one of my most humbling and honored experiences in my career. Every single time. This happens, not because of the business reason, but because of the relationship, because it means someone trusts us with the real thing of life, the thing that is always worth more than the present thing, is this whole life holistic leadership discussion. That's what it means to me to lead holistically. You know, we talk about. We've talked about it for years, you know, when, uh, to lead holistically, to see a person's business career and personal life as one integrated experience, it's intertwined. There are times that one could be a little bit more prioritized over the other, but they all still go together. I remember years ago where I had a relationship, and I still do with a. What I would call a power couple. Um, two CEOs that were married to one another. And they talked to me about, like, I, um, was asking, like, how does that work? Because, like, their jobs are massive and they're like, you know, at times we prioritize, like, hey, over the next three years, I'm going to need some more focus and more space. Or over the next three months, I've got this going on, and they would just work with one another and navigate. You know, I always say one of the greatest gifts I was ever given, um, in the area of marriage is like, we all have to give 100%. It's not a 50, 50 equation. You give 100% you give 100% and we do this thing right. Um, and I felt that same exact feeling with this, what I would call power couple that would work with each other as they were both giving 100%. Um, that's the power of conversation and authenticity and trusting one another and trusting friendships. I've got business partners that I have the same discussion with, like, I need you right now because I've got something going on, decisions I need to make. I have people who are like, hey, Mike, I see something in you, and I want to lean into this. I hope you're okay that I go here, because I'm going to ask a couple things just to, uh, either hold you accountable or because I see something that I think you need to press into that you might miss the opportunity. So 250 episodes of leaders being vulnerable, of leaders sharing stories of failure and chaos. Not to perform. Um, not to perform, but to be vulnerable. Because they knew someone listening needed to hear their story or their experience or their emotion or their, um, the challenge they went through, the failure they had, the decisions they had, the confrontation, um, the realism of how they were leading and how they were showing up or when they weren't showing up or when they weren't leading and hearing those stories because they understood that when you share your lowest of low, honestly, you give someone else permission to stop pretending that theirs doesn't exist. That is what this community has built. Not a highlight reel of leadership excellence. Although we love our shorts. Um, a genuine conversation of what it actually takes, what it actually costs to lead. Well, we believe leaders need partners, business partners. You hear it referenced often when you're around our business, that everybody's a business partner. Um, we need partners. We need people who care. We need 3am Friends who show up when I'm in a dark place or I'm in a tough corner that I don't know how to get out of. I was just in a conversation with an individual who I believe has been wildly successful at business, but I've also watched her relationship with her spouse and her children, and I see how she shows up there and had a very successful career. Those are the kind of leaders we want to highlight. People who align with the unconventional leadership mentality where they don't let two go because one's succeeding, but they try to keep all together, and they're willing to give things up professionally to make sure that that relationship at home and with their friends and with their spouses are, uh, winning too. So looking for people who align to you, who support you, who Appropriately want to challenge you, who want to speak wisdom, who want to speak honestly. A partner doesn't just help you solve your quarter three or quarter four problem. A partner helps you figure out whether the quarter three problem is actually a leadership problem or a values problem or a personal problem that's showing up professionally. A partner sees the whole thing, sees you for who you are, and is willing to stay right there with you. I'm not saying any of this because I have it all figured out, because those who know me know I'm overly authentic about when I don't have it figured out. And I'm asking for help. But 250 episodes have taught me that, uh, that what it takes for a leader to thrive. The ones who build something lasting, the ones who create something generational, the ones who create something that outlives the title on the card are the ones who stop trying to carry it alone. They found that when people carry it with them, it allowed them to go further. Right? So we want to be with you to help you carry your success, your life, and your impact further. We want to give you permission to be in an acceptance of the process to help you keep going. When we're together in the process of leadership, we know it's going to be messy. There's going to be a messy middle, and that's okay. And we want to be right here with you to help carry that burden and put some of that weight in my backpack or the backpack of this community together. That's what we've always been. That's what I hope will always be. I want to spend, um, the next few minutes about how this is going to show up, um, and what we're building to make it even more possible for leaders like you. So a couple things, um, the brand is going to be building. So we're working on this brand that's been underneath the Talent Magnet Institute of Unconventional Leadership and Centennial. Amazing partners who have made this possible the last eight years. This brand is going to be lifting up and becoming even more, um, uh, I would say stabilized and a little bit independent. Um, and we're going to be doing that with partners. We're going to be doing that with some more marketing effort that Talent Magnet and Centennial are putting behind the brand because we see the growth happening. Um, and I appreciate you as you're listening to this driving, you're listening to this running like Sharma Lee has done for all these years. Maybe you're working out, maybe you're cooking, maybe you're at the grill. Um, I listen to A lot of podcasts while I'm grilling. Um, maybe it's just in the background and you're not quite paying full attention, but I'm going to grab your attention. Or maybe I say this, um, that you needed something today and you were hoping by listening to this episode that was going to help you feel less alone and feel connected. Whoever you are, whatever's on your plate, whatever you're building or rebuilding or trying to figure out, I want you to know that we see you and this podcast is for you. That's why we started, and that's where we're going to stay. We exist to connect business leaders with the resources to improve their businesses, careers and their personal life. That's it. That's why we started. That's why we're still here. That's where we're going, and that's where we're going to be. To actually be useful to the people doing the hardest work in the world. Leading people, leading self, which gets ignored often, but not on this podcast. Um, that you're building things. You're carrying vision. You've got a really heavy backpack that we'd like to help take some weight off of you. We don't want to just be a resource for the next quarter, as you hear in our stories. We want to be with you as a partner for the next three years, seven years, 12 years. I, um, just helped a client that came to us after, um, successful engagement 11 years ago. They haven't needed our help in between. They came to us. We just signed an engagement with a client last week, um, that we've been working with for 40 years. Their, their business has gone through multiple transitions and we're right there with them 40 years later. That's the kind of brand we are. That's the kind of team we are. That's the kind of family business we are. And that's what we believe the world needs more of. Because that vision you're carrying with you, the one that keeps you up at night, the one you can't fully explain to people yet, the one your family would be proud of seeing you pursue, but they don't quite see the full vision that you have, that vision doesn't get built in a quarter. It gets built over years of consistently making good, wise decisions, having honest conversations, consistently surrounding yourself with the people who believe in your vision. And, uh, that's where we want to be. So thank you. Thank you for your relationship. Thank you for your support. Thank you for your trust in this brand. Um, I'm very Grateful to you and for you. I know there are leaders listening right now who are building something that your children will one day possibly inherit. That there might be someone listening where your grandchildren are now leading your third and fourth and fifth generation of your business. You pivoted. You've had experiences. You've leveled up. You've went through failure and loss and challenge and celebration. And we're not talking about just business legacy. We're talking about human legacy. We believe that everything we have in everything we have that the leaders who lead themselves and others well, holistically, honestly, and with real partners beside them are the ones who build the kind of legacy we believe in and worth living. You might be one of them. You probably are. If you're listening and you've made it this far in the podcast, you. You're listening because you care and you want to lead well. And we're here to help you become more for you, your team, and for the generations that follow. So stay in it. Stay in it with us. We will stay in it with you. Stay in the hard work of leading yourself well. And if you're looking for that, you need that. 3:00am m friend, we're here for you. That's the vision and brand that we've built. 250 episodes, eight years. Lots of moments where a leader put in their earbuds and gave us an hour or 40 minutes or 10 minutes of their day. We've never taken it lightly and we never will. I want to thank you for being here. Thank you for trusting us. Thank you for showing up not just for today, but every single time you've hit play, every single time you've seen a notification from your subscription that we've dropped a new episode or a new, short, um, reel, short form video. Um, you gave me a chance to walk with you. You gave my guest a chance to walk with you. And I love what we're building together. I love the leaders that are involved in this effort. And I again will say we are just getting started. Hey, can I ask you a favor? Can you please hit subscriber follow on any platform that you're listening or watching this episode? Our goal is to connect with you, to bring additional value to you, to bring additional topics to you. And we can do that more effectively if you hit subscribe or follow. Thank you so much.