#66 TikTok is the gateway to e-commerce success - Haley Rebennack & Callum Hilton

Speaker A: The podcast is brought to you by Sugaton Sugaton Effect Podcast, a podcast dedicated to e commerce growth. On the show, we interview business owners, media buyers, CRO specialists and growth experts to help scale your business to seven and eight figures. The podcast is brought to you by sugiton, performance experts in the e commerce industry. Let's increase your ROI. What's up, guys? Welcome back to Sugaton's YouTube channel. Uh, today we have Hayley, and Hayley is a creative strategist here at Tigaton and, uh, also bit of a fan of TikTok. So today we're going to be talking about the applications for TikTok in an e commerce sense, both the ad side of it and the e commerce side of it, and just clearing up some misconceptions and hopefully giving people some valuable nuggets of information. But first we're going to let Hayley introduce herself and tell us a little bit more about what she does at Zigaton. Off you go.

Speaker B: Yeah, thanks, Kel. Yeah, so I work primarily as creative strategist, strictly video strategist as well. Um, but especially, you know, this year we've been branching so much out into TikTok and, uh, both the accounts I work on are getting really heavily involved in TikTok. And so it's been like the new wave of, you know, media and marketing for us at Sugaton, especially on my teams and on my accounts and, and it's just been, it's been awesome. That's where like most of my focus has been. So I'm account managing one, a brand new account where we're actually starting from the ground up, working through the things of Facebook, Instagram and then moving into TikTok. And then we have another account where I've got to see firsthand the impact of an account who already had a good start on Facebook. And I've gotten to be a part of that really start to exponential growth into TikTok, which has been super cool to see and, um, my first real time predominantly strategizing and editing for TikTok. So, um, I've been super into it. I'm an active user of TikTok and I love it. So it's been really cool to be more involved in it and not go beyond just like the, you know, strategizing for Facebook and Instagram and, but also coming at it of more of a holistic perspective of, you know, what works on a new channel like this. So, yeah, it's been, it's been really fun so far.

Speaker A: Cool. Cool. That's okay. So it's interesting. So it's actually, it's, it's not just the uh, inclusion of TikTok into the ecosystem. It's almost like a uh, like TikTok is it at the moment for. So do you think it's more aiming for, Are you more aiming for organic viral videos or are you aiming to create viral ads on TikTok? What do you think is the uh, secret there?

Speaker B: Yeah, and that's. So it's really interesting actually to think about both because I personally aren't, I'm not doing any organic posting for anything under the accounts we're doing. Um, but you know, it's really one conversation we really have a lot, especially with like video team is that comparison between organic and ads. Because one thing we've realized through a couple of newer accounts is just because something goes viral or works on organic where it doesn't always necessarily mean it's gonna work as an ad. And I think especially through the. I'm strictly in ads of course. So like I've been making and creating and strategizing for the actual TikTok ads that are scaling. But it's really interesting to think about, you know, if I had to make those into an organic post, some of them, yeah, I think they would work like, okay, like this might get some views, it might get some click throughs or anything. But a lot of times it is a different approach because I'm obviously, like I said, a really active user of TikTok. I mean I spend probably multiple hours a day just between work, during work. Um, it's so weird because like when you're on TikTok for Sugaton, it's like I'm technically working but I'm also like on my phone just scrolling on social media. Right. So um, it's so interesting to catch myself like watching TikTok and I'm like, oh man, like this would be a good ad. But um, I'm watching an organic post. But then I get that idea like would this be a good ad or why did this go viral just as an organic post someone made? So I think that's actually a good battle. We're actually still kind of finding a fine line between because for instance we have a video that Holly, our video ads director made and it was a viral TikTok organic video. And as an ad they didn't see those same results. And it's just a really interesting play. And you know, we haven't really tested any of the ads. Um, I've made For for example, one account on organic. But there's a few of them where I'm like, I think it would do well. But also you kind of don't know. It really depends on that niche and like where your videos are going and how people connect to them. And I think when you approach it strictly from an ads perspective, you don't always think about that personal touch, which is something we've been super cognizant of, is when we make ads, especially for TikTok. I think this applies to Facebook too, but mostly TikTok, you really have to put yourself in the user brain because if people can sniff out ads immediately on TikTok, it's so easy. So it's really important to approach, I think ads from a more organic perspective than approach organic from an ads perspective, if that makes sense.

Speaker A: Yeah, that does. So you actually, you kind of trying to, you're not specifically making feed organic posts, but you're almost making ads that are like feed organic posts instead. Because like you said, the whole ecosystem is completely different on TikTok to what it is on Facebook. Or even an ad itself or um, an organic ad has a completely, there's a set like standard or format to these things and you kind of trying to pass them off as, you know, you could see that video, think it's interesting and then keep scrolling or whatever as if it's as if it's just part of a TikTok feed. It's not like a jarring ad or anything like that. That kind of. You're basically making ad organic posts. Pretty much.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, pretty much. Exactly.

Speaker A: Okay. And I know a lot of people, um, a lot of, I'm sure not sort of forward thinking business owners, but a lot of business owners are like, uh, TikTok is for 13 year olds. Um, and I think that's just a really, really big mistake and a completely wrong view on it because not only since TikTok has started has the demographic kind of aged up. Um, but it's also, I think the fastest demographic on TikTok at the moment is 35 and over or around that 35 age group. So, you know, have you noticed things as well that you can put to bed these naysayers about TikTok in terms of from a business perspective?

Speaker B: Oh yeah, I think that's something, um, like we originally, I remember talking about was a lot of the negative negativity around it was, you know, oh, we're only going to target, you know, Gen Z or maybe younger millennials. And it's like we've completely proven that wrong just through, you know, we have an account, uh, as you know, probably that's literally their target demographic is like 45, 50 plus and they're scaling on TikTok. And so that's like the best example of Sugaton success with an older demographic. But even like the accounts we're working on, you know, I can speak obviously, just, I mean even for like my age group, which was like late Gen Z, early millennial, but I mean the older millennial, like there is literally a niche for everybody. It's insane. Like you can type like one of my favorite like research things I do, which is really again more me just using TikTok for fun. But it works as a research tool where you can just go on TikTok and go into the search and just type in a topic and you type in something. I mean, I just picked the most random stuff in the world, you know, like um, men's acne or like for an acne brand for men. And like a 50 year old guy will come up and then a 12 year old kid will come up and then a 15 year old guy will come up and Then a 25 year old guy. And it's just insane how it like really there's room for everyone. But I think the same principles apply obviously as any other successful brand on paid advertising, which is you have to have something that resonates to really be successful in the long run. But it kind of reminds us, I think of like the boom of Facebook where, you know, you could pretty much get a good product. If you have a good product and you can find your community, you're probably going to find some success, especially about finding that community because, you know, people, there is someone to care about everything on TikTok. I mean there is, there's a niche for book people, there's a niche for, you know, country living people and then there's you know, older women or older moms who have empty nester houses. Like there's, there's groups for everybody and it's so cool to be able to like find and maneuver through all of those. And obviously a lot of ours, you know, a lot of brands we uh, use are millennial women, the female, the very hot demographic to target. But. Oh yeah, yeah, that definitely doesn't mean that there is not room for all those other.

Speaker A: For everyone. Yeah. I think one of my favorite things about TikTok is that any other social media you kind of have to, um, even Instagram, um, if you want to be part of a Community, whatever you kind of have, it takes time to work it out and invest yourself into the community. Tick tock. Could literally like you can see each community or each niche or whatever is just perfectly like these are the sounds that work. These are the trends that work. These are the like all these things. TikTok kind of does half the work as well of like this is what works for these people. And you literally just hit that formula and, and you found those people because like, I mean uh, even examples I've had it so obviously like caught enough. This is these people. This is these people. Like um, a few years back, like two years ago, think I posted a video, um, like making a play on words. Um, yeah. And ah, the sound I used happened to be from like an anime or something like that. I had no idea. I just thought the sound suited my video.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And like probably 90% of the comments I got was from like people who are interested in anime going like how dare you take our sound and whatever. And it's like, it's crazy how even just the sound is completely like if you target that sound or your video goes straight to that. Um, and even like GEO posting as well is, you know, that's half the work as well. If I post from South Africa, my videos go straight to a South African audience. I know like exactly half of like my videos going already to people that I would want to target or whatever. So um, I think TikTok is in a lot of ways as much as some. Sometimes those things can be frustrating. It can be super helpful as well. But you mentioned that uh, feels a lot like the boom of Facebook. Um, and I actually saw, I think Chris was saying something about that the other day that it's um, like TikTok is the next Facebook. Is that what is that kind of the feeling with video strategists and as strategists stuff? Is that, is it Facebook's valuable but TikTok's now like where it's at?

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, it's funny because yeah, all of our fellow like video strategists and a lot of us on the video team, you know, we talk about it all the time and because we're all pretty much doing TikTok now, of course, and it's almost like, you know, it doesn't mean Facebook's still not valuable, but it's like it's one of those kind of if you're not doing TikTok, you're doing something wrong. Like two years, you know, two or three years ago, if you weren't if you were running ads and you weren't running Facebook ads and you were running, you know, Pinterest ads or something else, you're just like, well, what are you doing? Why would you not be running Facebook ads? That's kind of how I think it is now with TikTok. Like, you know, if you're not at least trying to run TikTok ads, why aren't. Why. That's like something I think if anyone came to Suiton was like, oh, we don't do TikTok. We'd be like, why?

Speaker A: What

Speaker B: is a great. You know, it's really interesting because, for example, like, one of the accounts I work on that scaling on TikTok, they didn't. I mean, they, they had ad spend in Facebook. They were relatively small but successful brand, really a really good community around their product. Um, no TikTok, I mean, no TikTok testing at all. And they come to us and we, we started from literally $0 ad spend in TikTok and now, you know, they're doing great and just from video TikTok ads. And it's just so interesting to see, like, like, oh, like you've got to get in there. Like, it's just. You got to at least try it out because, I mean, you're missing out if you're not.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then I know there's. I mean, I'm very much so on the organic side of TikTok more than the ad side of TikTok. But, like, um, has the. All the issues with TikTok paid ads, are they starting to get, you know, ads getting blocked for no reason whatever? All those things starting to kind of iron themselves out as the, the ad buying side of it ages and gets a bit easier, is that, you know, those issues, are they still. Are they getting easier to deal with?

Speaker B: You know, I firsthand haven't experienced too much of it. We had a couple, for example. But a lot of my, you know, views on it comes from a very fresh account. So like a brand that's never been on paid media at all. So I kind of have to attribute probably some of those blockers to an account like that. Um, honestly, like, I haven't really ran into a ton. Like, for instance, you know, one thing we have like a skincare brand, um, so there's a lot of blocker potential blockers with posting about skincare. Of course. Um, and it's interesting because a lot of the ads that we made for Facebook, you know, would get rejected if we showed certain things which we Kind of know that whole game. But our ad buyer, you know, would come to me and be like, hey, this didn't work on Facebook, but it worked on TikTok. And I was like, oh, okay, so we can show that on TikTok. Um, I think it's getting. It's probably gonna be getting abused soon, because I bet they're gonna start or I bet they are gonna, you know, be more cognizant of, you know, the tricks and the little tactics people are using to probably get around a lot of those blockers and rejection ads, rejected ads. But, um, it really hasn't affected me too much, personally. I kind of just approach it the same way as Facebook, though, so I might be even playing a little.

Speaker A: Facebook also has these little tricks and stuff that get changed. So it's actually just part of the process is learning these things, working a workaround. That's part of what the advisors and the strategists do at the end of

Speaker B: the day is exactly, yeah, I'll get a message from the ad buyer, just like, hey. And I'll be like, okay, I know what's about to happen. And it's usually like, hey, change this tiny thing. And then I'll. We'll just do a tiny little trick and boom, it's good.

Speaker A: So, yeah, yeah, okay. And then one other thing that I think, uh, um, we busy running with it at the moment ourselves, is how easy it is to grow a pretty good audience on TikTok as well. That this is now the organic side of things. But, um, you have guys like, uh, Gary Vee talking about TikTok. When Gary Vee says something about social media, he's like, generally. Right. Um, and he's. He's saying, like, at the moment, TikTok is. He's a bit extreme. He's like, if you're not posting four TikTok videos a day, like, what are you doing with your life and stuff? Yeah, Like, I mean, in the space of two, uh, months of proper focus, um, we're on 500 followers on TikTok. Uh, it's trickling to the YouTube. It's trickling to the Instagram. Um, there's way bigger success stories where it's literally like, you know, millions in a few days, and the potential is there. So, you know, that's also something to focus on in terms of creating videos. Because the thing with TikTok is, it's quite a. It's a pretty simple formula for, like, you can. You can almost always look at a video and go, this is going to get at least a few views once you've. Once you've created it or you've got a slight following going. Um, and I think that's also the beauty of TikTok is it's not like a. You know, it's almost like they want you to grow on TikTok. Um, and that's a way of growing a brand's following massively, which is also really important at the same time as running paid ads, I think.

Speaker B: Oh, I 100% agree. Yeah. I love everything about, like, the strategies of organic, because, yeah, I know there's that huge strategy of, like, post 10 times a day for two weeks straight, and there's all those strategies. And, you know, like, I have, like a firsthand personal experience of someone, you know, who. Her third video went viral and it's like. And she posted like, once a week or like, it was just whatever. So I think, yeah, like, you know that. I know that that's a thing about it. You know, it's really formulated to push as many people to use the platform as possible. And I think at the end of the day, it's so interesting because, like, a lot of the principles we use on ads, a lot of the same principles basically apply. You know, it's how do you make content people want to watch? And I think a lot of times, especially like working in ads creation, week by week, day by day, we get really bogged down of like, oh, I need to make ads, I need to make this many ads and this many. Whatever, whatever. But it's like, really, you have to think about what type of content do people want to watch? And that applies to ads and that applies to organic. So, you know, organic really rewards those people who make something that transcends, you know, community, it transcends humor, it transcends people's, you know, likes and dislikes. It's controversial, maybe, um, but that's like, you know, if you look at any video that goes viral or, like, why do we recognize Those audios from TikTok? Like, those certain things, sounds that go viral. And why are, like, the most random, um, people and businesses using these sounds to, like, uh. It's just crazy to see how the trail of something viral works on TikTok. And that is, I think, different than Facebook, obviously. Um, because it's just. I mean, the channels and the paths that branch off from, like, one good piece of content and one perfectly synchronized sound with a great video from some random person. It's like everybody ends up using it. And then it's like for, you know, because I'm sure, you know, like, something on TikTok really has a life, a very short lifespan. Like, if something goes viral, I mean, it's viral and you need to hit it in that window or it's gone.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so that's something super interesting about it too.

Speaker A: M. And it's. I think it's actually quite a good thing to play on as well, because it's, uh, it's. I. The formula for. For people who advertise on with organic posts is kind of all the, um, same. You know, it's like, say you want to advertise this, I don't know, pair of socks. You, like, post a video, uh, about your process of making the socks or whatever. Like, I made this cool pair of socks in my garage, whatever. Like, often those kinds of videos go viral and people will be like, oh, I want to buy it, whatever, whatever. Um, and the. The really cool thing I think about TikTok is it's like, if you get a video to go viral, it's. It's very short. It's like three days, but it's like three days of complete obsession. Like, it's just like it's 150% for three days and there's nothing at all. And it's. You can like, kind of run on these little. These little things where you just get disgusting amounts of traction in, like, three days. Three days. Three days. Like, you know, if you get it. If you're really good at making TikTok videos, you can just get gross amounts of views in really short periods of time because the trends just change so quickly. It's like.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it is a disrespectful amount of views. It is just. No, but you're right. Like, and my favorite thing to look at is these creators who do that and you'll. Oh, my gosh. Like, there's. And if you really start to pay attention to the people who have mastered that and the ones who are like you, you can literally look at their feed. I mean, you can literally scroll on your phone and look at your feed and it'll be like, every five videos over a million or 5 million views, and then it'll be like 100k, 200k, 50k, 5 million. Yeah, 100k, 80k, 300k, 2 million. Like, it's really interesting. And it's like, why did those millions take off more than the other ones? And sometimes it's just like, weird to look at. And like, oh, my gosh, there's this one Creator who. He's just like, mastered this formula, I feel like. And he always does these, like, relatable videos. He literally has built a community around just doing the same thing over and over. And that's really how you. That's all you do.

Speaker A: Like, you get these, like, crazy followings. And literally all their videos are like the same thing. It's like they've. Yeah, it's just like, I found what works and I'm just going to absolutely milk it until, you know, and then eventually, if people get bored of it, they've made it so big that they've got, you know, 100,000 followers on Instagram, um, and 100,000 subscribers on YouTube. And they're like, okay, cool, thanks, TikTok. And that's like the. It's like the gateway to massive, massive traction and social media success.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think you literally just. Just hit it right there. Because if you mean, let's. I mean, if you use like, uh, two years ago now, the COVID Boom, whatever, when, you know, the, uh, like famous, famous. The new age of Tiktokers, like the Charli d' Amelio and like, like the Addison, like all the, like, really popular girls that were on TikTok, you know, everybody's. I just noticed this too, you know, looking at a lot of these creators that were the boom back then, and it's like they rode that wave and like, they don't. I mean, I don't see them anymore on TikTok.

Speaker A: Never.

Speaker B: Yeah, like, you really. They have brands, they have brand deals, they have movies, they have. I mean, they've built. Like there is something completely separate. It's like the new launch pad. Um, and it's just crazy. It's like. Cause that's how Instagram used to be, you know, that is. It was like, how do I go get famous on Instagram? And now it's like, you can get famous on TikTok and launch your entire influencer. Yeah, it's crazy because, like, you don't see those people anymore. And it's really, really interesting to look at how. Dang. Like, yeah, you can just blow up and get your bag and run.

Speaker A: But I do think, having said that, that window is closing a little bit. It's the same thing as, like, you know, my first video to ever break the 500,000 views on TikTok was like some, um. I don't know, I can't even. It was some dumb sound and I, like, I ended up tricking people into. Remember when this was like a massive thing, like oh, yeah, like, try to do that. Like, I was like. I think the title of the video. I saw someone else do it, and I was. It was like, how to make a triangle with your hands. And it was like, do this, do. And then boom. And then you go like that. And it got, like, 500, 000 years it took me. I found it in the car. Um, and, like, it was no effort whatsoever. And now, you know, my next video to get a lot of views was, like, way more labor intensive. You know, I. I was like, I, uh. It was a joke about, um, you know, like, when you take the milk bottle out the fridge and you expect it to be heavy. Um, and then you, like, lift it out, and it's like that. So, like, oh, my God. Through the milk bottle, across the frame and, like, ran after the. The milk bottle or whatever. Whatever. Um, and then maybe let me actually share my screen. I can maybe show my video.

Speaker B: That's so funny. But I think there's a lot to say about your first. Like, the one you say you got a lot of views on how. It's like, I filmed it for five minutes in the car, and it's like. But that's what a lot of people are doing, and I think they related to that. Yeah, they're like, oh, okay.

Speaker A: But it's definitely, um, you know, oh, my gosh.

Speaker B: Now I have to. This is what I'm gonna do today.

Speaker A: You're gonna go to school. Um, it's definitely, uh, like, YouTube, like, Instagram. In the beginning, it's super easy, but as the. As people like the level of content required to do well. Yeah, it's more and more, um, intense. You know, it's like, here we go.

Speaker B: Oh, my God. Uh-huh. This is hard. Oh, my God. 13.6.

Speaker A: Yeah, I got 13.6 million.

Speaker B: Dang.

Speaker A: But I'll show you my. Yeah. 500.

Speaker B: Fantastic.

Speaker A: It wasn't in the car, and they don't like that I was skipping school to get my sack, right? My. Take me. That's why I don't text me. My dog got out of prison and went right back. And that got. That got, uh, 563,000 views. Can you tell me what other platform you can post a stupid video like that and get 563,000 views? It makes no sense how.

Speaker B: This is why I say, like, people love to do this whole, um, tactic thing on Facebook or on, you know, with ads where they're like, how do we get people to watch past three seconds? Like, that's as, you know, ads People. That's like. Biggest thing is like, oh, my God, how do we get people to watch. The first three seconds are the most important. How do we get people to watch the first three seconds? What crazy, weird thumb stopper shot are we going to use? And it's like, at the end of the day, if people want to watch it, they're going to watch it. They watched you do this for like 20 seconds.

Speaker A: Yeah, I know.

Speaker B: It's like, you know, everyone. Like, no one knew that your video would end like that. You have to watch that whole video to even know.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, right.

Speaker B: And so it's like, it's just unlocking that. You really have to think about it as a user. That's why, I mean, I advocate to everyone, just use TikTok. Like, just get on there and be a user and don't approach it as I'm researching for ads. Like, get on there and start watching things.

Speaker A: You enjoy it.

Speaker B: Yeah, just watch things you like and you'll start to realize, you know, why people are liking certain stuff. Why do I watch the videos I watch? There's some. I'll look at stuff like the morning I'll go to bed and scroll on TikTok for like an hour, and I'll be dying, laughing, and I'll wake up and be like, what was I laughing about? Like, this is a weird video.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That milk video is amazing, though. That is fantastic.

Speaker A: It still happens where people are like, they'll go look at my TikTok and it's like, pinned. And they'll be like, wait, you're the milk guy? And I'm like, yeah, I'm the milk guy.

Speaker B: It's like, I'm sad and sad. See it. Well, that was a while ago. Did you post that a while ago?

Speaker A: Um, I think that was beginning of 20. It was just before the first lockdown. So it was beginning of 2019, right?

Speaker B: Oh, okay. Yep. Like, right before.

Speaker A: It was literally a month before lockdown started. Uh.

Speaker B: Oh, man.

Speaker A: Yeah, so it's. I was sitting, like, I posted the video. I was like, oh, this might be funny. And it was a long video as well. You know, you expect.

Speaker B: It is.

Speaker A: It's like. It's like a good 35 seconds, that video. And, um, you know, uh, I posted it and I was chilling and I was actually at my girlfriend's house, and she was like, yeah, that's funny. And I was like, okay. And then, you know, I checked my phone and I was like, oh, cool. It's got like 5,000 views. And I left my phone and then I came back and it was on like 20,000. And I was like, okay. And then like an hour, two hours later, by the time I got home it was on 500,000. And then in two hours. Yeah, literally in the next, the next morning it was over a million. It just like. And it's, it's really interesting seeing how it taught me a lot about how Tick Tock works is that since, since then I got Shadow Band. I don't know why. But anyway, so my videos, I don't get views anymore on my videos. Like I used to. Even before that video I could post a video and go like, oh, okay, I know it's gonna get 20,000 views at least. Like that's how I knew the, I knew the formula for TikTok videos because I was kind of going just off. And that's probably one of the most, in my opinion, the most powerful, um, feeling to play on, on TikTok is relatable to see. Like if you, if you choose something that, that people relate to, they're going to send it to their friends, they're going to save it, they're going to do whatever. So I was kind of playing on that and it was uh, it was doing well and then I got Shadow banned. But anyway, that's not the point. Um, oh, okay.

Speaker B: I'll just ask you about that later.

Speaker A: Like. Yeah, um, taught me how Tick Tock one, obviously how good relatable content is. Two, um, how it. So it's, it's a completely tiered system. So and it's almost like a hierarchy. So you post a video and it'll do well in your country and TikTok's like testing the waters. You, you know, so it got probably like if you check the analytics throughout it going viral, it was like, okay, 100% of views came from South Africa when it was on like fifty thousand or a hundred thousand. Then it starts going to like the Netherlands and it's. And like goes through the Netherlands and then it'll dip in engagements again. So it'll go like South Africa then down, um, Netherlands and down then uk big one, got a few million from the UK and then as soon as it hit the US it was just like, yeah, like the, like the next 10 million views came from the US for a long time my biggest following was from the Netherlands and the us not from South Africa. Just because of that video. Yeah. So it was really interesting to see um, how the algorithm works and I'm sure it's changed a lot. I haven't had a video go that big in quite a while. Um, but yeah it's still, it's still definitely 100% geo locked. Like we've, we've tried um, we've tried VPNs. Uh, we. So I was posting all the TikToks uh that we made. I mean they're good TikToks, you know and they, it was going only to South Africans. Now Amy is in the US and literally the first day of Amy posting we decided to make her post to TikToks. Um, it was a mixture of audiences mainly still South African but a mixture and we literally got uh, in that first 48 hours we went from um, 120 followers to now we're on like 500 followers now in the. So definitely, definitely makes a difference where you're located and where you post. And you can't use VPNs.

Speaker B: That's super interesting. So I was just wondering that like because like we just started like posting on there like not too like like pretty recently and so yeah like I completely forgot like that's where you are and if you're posting from there. Yeah that that's going to affect a lot for sure. Yeah.

Speaker A: Basically for me and if we want to grow the, the point is to grow the US audience mainly for our tick tock. So basically if, if I'm posting just from South Africa I've first got the task of you know, if you're in the US and you're posting you're going to immediately start growing your US audience. But if you're in South Africa and you're posting you first have to grow it big enough that your videos are going to automatically get suggested around. So my first task was actually to grow it like a massive following just in South Africa alone. And now that Amy's got there and then I'm coming to the US after that so that we're going to have posts coming from the US and it's like affirmed how important it is.

Speaker B: Really cool one.

Speaker A: Um, yeah, the other thing that you also said earlier which I found interesting was if people want to watch the video they will watch it. Uh, Amy and I have in the marketing team in general we've kind of been discussing. Um, well one thing is I've had people tell me before I've got a thing about. I prefer to even sometimes zoom calls. I'll set up my camera just so that like, just so that the quality is good. Like I've got a thing about it. Um, and a lot of people have Actually said to me, when you record your TikToks on a camera, we skip it straight away because it looks Nothing like a TikTok video. It looks like an advert. So we on a whole test at the moment of do we post or um, natively produce TikTok videos or do we post camera videos? And then the other thing, I'm busy. You know, there's 80% of videos on social media are watched with the volume off. Um, is that my theory on that is if I see a video so I'm interested in photography or whatever, if I see a video and the title is how to become a Pro Photographer in a Week, you best know, um, I'm unmuting that video to watch it. Like because I find the titles interesting. So like, is it. Does having subtitles make that much of a difference on TikTok or. I know they've got their own subtitle thing, but not everyone has access to that and stuff. So we're also busy testing that about like if, if we're posting, we posting straight to digital marketers. If someone sees a video that they find really interesting, they're probably going to unmute it and watch the video. So we're doing like a week of posting no subtitles and only filmed on TikTok. And then, um, next week I'm going to film all of them on my camera and put subtitles on all of them and then start like messing around to see what works best.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, so I think what you said was actually it perfectly because it's one of those things where it's like if someone's interested, they're going to watch with sound. I mean, on TikTok we know sound is really important. Um, sound is like honestly half, if not more than half of why a lot of stuff goes viral because people are using trending sounds with content. Um, the way actually I approach ads like this. So. And I think it's pretty safe to say you can approach pretty much any posting on social media like this. Um, especially when you're posting videos. Of course it, the sound should enhance the video, but it shouldn't take away too much if it's off. So especially with ads, you know, we. I've learned through Facebook, of course most people don't watch the sound, so TikTok sounds a huge part. So how do we navigate that? And so one thing, you know, when I make like if I look at. I actually just did this the other day, you know, I looked at all the top, the top five ads that are scaling um, the account online on TikTok or the top five, like, highest spend. And I looked at all of them, it was like, you know, I use TikTok sounds. I mean, I used the popular music remixes, I used, you know, a trend. Um, but, uh, it's all music and sounds that you would find on TikTok. But if they were off, the ads still work, if that makes sense. Like, the ad still got across, the copy came across the way it should have. Um, the footage was good. So. And then when you add the music, it's like, oh, that's. Yeah, like that, that's a vibe. Like that works, right? So obviously, you know, with TikTok, we do approach it with. We need to make sure the sound is just as powerful as the video is the ad. But, you know, in the same way, if someone doesn't watch it with sound, what is the. What is the experience like? Because if your sound make or breaks your video to me for. I'm, uh, talking strictly ads, because, I mean, organic, I mean, most people actually know, you could probably say the same, because I've watched organic viral videos without sound and they were still funny and they were still, oh, like, that's a good video. Because whatever copy they use, you know, if they used a funny trend or if they used a funny. Like, people are writing just the most hilarious stuff nowadays. I mean, if it's ever. It's like your. The milk video. Like, if I didn't have sound on that, I'd still think that was like fucking hilarious. Like, you know, so, um. But like, even the trending audios, like the ones that are like, you know, the sounds that you can apply to, like multiple different jokes, um, a lot of times that's where you see that addition of captions. That's where you see people putting more text on their videos. Because I think a lot of people are approaching it, like, well, if someone's in public, like, if I'm in public and I still want to scroll on TikTok, I'm not going to have the sound on, but I'm still going to do it. Like, I'm still going to scroll. And if someone has captions or the right text and, uh, all I have to do is like, hold up to my ear and I can hear the sound, I'll be like, oh, that was funny because I was able to understand it because they added those extra bits, they added that caption, they added that text on top, that headline. That helped. So, yeah, I think you have to find a good balance with that because Your, your sound shouldn't make or break, but when used, it should elevate it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So kind of like, uh, you know, you could get the message across completely muted or, you know, with the sound it's going to be. Yeah, uh, that's actually, that's a really good way of looking at it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Okay. Uh, so then, I mean we Basically, we've got 10, uh, 15 minutes. But I mean, would you say then that the. Just as like a closing thing. I mean, obviously we've kind of established that if you're not on TikTok as an E commerce brand, specifically, who are you? Like, yeah, get on TikTok. I mean, if you're not on TikTok in general, what a loser. But like, if you uh, if you're not on TikTok as a brand that's trying to grow as well, what a loser. Um, uh, but like, I mean, would you say that the optimal Strategy Then for TikTok is because, you know, it's. You look at so many brands and unless they have someone dedicated to it, like you look at their social media and they're just trying so hard and it's just like shame. Like the Instagram, whatever, you know, they'll have like 100 followers and get like five likes, whatever. It's just a, is really dire. Um, uh, and TikTok is an opportunity to. It's quite weird. Aside from the ads, you know, we're going to assume businesses are going to spend on ads on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, whatever. Um, aside from uh, the ads, you know, the content on TikTok, it's, it's almost like again, we are discussing this like with the camera thing. It's almost like the worse the content looks, the better it does. So like, there's no, there's absolutely no, uh, pressure to make this work of arts and post it on TikTok. So. And it's really easy. You can take a video of like, you know, you've got your product, you've got your phone and it's like, uh, new product we've just released, blah, blah, blah, and that could get 20,000 views. Um, you know, it's, it's. Do you think then the ultimate combo for a business is running, obviously running Facebook, Instagram, we're assuming that. But getting into TikTok ads and also starting to get into TikTok organic as well, like just, that's kind of at the moment in the e commerce world, the secret sauce is kind of combining all of them with a heavy focus on TikTok, absolutely.

Speaker B: I 100% agree. Um, yeah, because, I mean, if you're running. The way I see it is, like, if you're running ads, I mean, making organic TikToks is, like, half the game. I mean, just, like, they're easy, like, they're fun. I think people overthink the hell out of it, especially even ads. Like, I mean, I have the same conversation, not even just with, like, my team, but, like, with myself. Like, stop trying to, like, overthink these ads. Like, just make something that. If you were scrolling and a girl got a new skincare product, would you watch it? And it's like, that's how we're getting these people to watch these ads, is because it's. It's stuff they're used to seeing.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, the way you go viral and transcend that is you make something they're used to seeing, but it brings a new idea or it brings something controversial or it brings something that they maybe haven't exactly seen the same way before.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. I mean, organic, I think, is like, the more fun part. I mean, organic, there's not as many strings attached. You know, like, organic you can truly do, I mean, whatever you want to grow your. I mean, you can do any type of, you know, content you want that really can excel your personality. It can emphasize any part of your brand you want. Yourself, your people, your team. I mean, like, there's so many great examples of brands who have taken TikTok and just, I mean, out of pocket, ran with it. Uh, like, Scrub Daddy is one of my favorite brand accounts. They're hilarious. I mean, they found a niche, they found a way to make it fun. And no, they don't give. They don't care if they sell anything from it, but they're selling from it. And it's like, that's a good mindset to have. It's just like, make stuff people want to watch. Don't think about it. So equally like, we don't know if this is going to get.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's like a place to, uh. I suppose that's also what I really like about TikTok is it's a place where you can Instagram. You know, all you have to go on is what you're seeing. Like, your content has to be so incredible that people will see it and be like, oh, um, my days and go follow. Like, no one's going to do that for a bottle of cream or whatever. You know, it's like. But TikTok is a. It's like A little. It's. It's like a really mini YouTube where, like, you can actually engage with people on a personal level. It doesn't matter what the video looks like, it doesn't matter. But, like, you make someone laugh or you get, like a little piece of your business's personality or your personality across, and it's going to resonate with people and TikTok is going to do all the work of spitting it out to, you know, the world. Um, the same as. I don't know if you've seen Ryanair on TikTok. Um, they're an airline that, like, they literally every single One of their TikToks is a picture of one of their planes. And they've got someone who definitely needs to be earning more than what they're earning. I don't care what they're earning, they need to earn more. Uh, someone who does that little, you know, the thing where it, like, cuts your eyes out.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: And it puts it. They put it on the airplane and the mouth and they literally just adapt, uh, their airplane to trends and they've got like, I think they're nearing 5 million followers on Tick Tock and it's

Speaker B: like, oh, that is so funny.

Speaker A: You know, Ryan.

Speaker B: What?

Speaker A: Ryanair. R Y A N. Like the name

Speaker B: of the N. Oh, my gosh. Yep. I have seen one of these before. Yeah, I have to look ahead. That's hilarious. Yeah, it's, like, insane. Yeah. Like, it's just catch flights mental. Even their bio is funny. Yeah. Like, oh, great. Yeah, it's just. It's so fun to just look at all. Like, that's the thing. Like, if you really don't know where to start and you don't know what to do and you're overthinking it, just go start playing around on Tick Tock. You will find.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: Just make like.

Speaker A: I mean, this is the stuff that goes viral. I literally just opened this stupid app and it's a guy who's, like, edited his body being still. And you can see it hasn't gone viral yet, but it's on its way.

Speaker B: Okay, this is a fun. We need to do this, like, honestly, in, like, a team meeting where we all pull up Tick Tock and like, the. The first video we get, we have to show it.

Speaker A: The first thing we just like, what is going on? This guy is.

Speaker B: Yeah, okay, I just got one. Like, this is literally an ad format pov. You're an American driving in Sweden for the first time and maps tells you to take a left Turn like, and it's just some guy. Like, and it has like 500,000 likes and like 2 million views.

Speaker A: Like, like, how many Americans have gone to Sweden and driven for the. And, like, had to turn left. Like, it's like the most random, relatable stuff you can narrow down so much. It's like, no one's done that except for this guy. But everyone's like, oh, my word, that's hilarious.

Speaker B: You know, like, why did I want to watch this? Like, I have nothing to do with this.

Speaker A: I've never been to Sweden in my entire life.

Speaker B: Uh, there's nothing that really relates to me about this, but it's like, I'm

Speaker A: going to watch it because, well, it's funny.

Speaker B: And that speaks a lot. Oh, yeah. Like, what you just said, that speaks so much to, like, the. What we were talking about how, like, if there was no sound on this. But, like, I'm gonna read this and like, that's a pretty healthy amount of text to read, but I'm gonna read it. And one, because it has the pov, which trend. So. And like, also one. I can go fast. I know I, um, could talk about TikTok all day. Just look at.

Speaker A: I. I love TikTok. It's literally my favorite thing. I love it.

Speaker B: It's so much fun. But, um, like, one of the funniest parts too is just like, literally, I don't need the sound to watch this. Like, I'm going to read all of this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And it's.

Speaker A: You can still. Like, you can. Often you'll read the text of a video and like, sometimes, uh, it's actually kind of sad because that means I spend way too much time on TikTok. But I can read the text in the video muted and know what sound has been used and be like, oh, that's funny. And then keep scrolling without even watching for the punchline. Like, I'll just be like, ah, uh, that. That was good. Well played. And just carry on, you know?

Speaker B: That's so true. I mean, that is literally also a huge part of it because that's like, exactly what we're talking about, you know, like, you can watch those good videos without anything and still get so much enjoyment out of them.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I think the other awesome thing is that just, uh, as a. Got seven minutes left, but I do have a call with Chris now, so straight after this. It's on the. On the back of this is a call with Chris about content strategy. So it's kind of. Um. But the other really cool thing about TikTok is, it's kind of, um, uh, I think even more than Instagram and Facebook. Well, way more than Facebook for sure. But more than Instagram even is the culture of sharing videos as well. It's like, uh, what other, you know, Instagram only now with reels has made it easy to, you know, there's a little send button, but like TikTok, right from the start it was front and center. You know, follow the person, comment on the video, share the video. It was like right underneath. Um, and you know, that also I think speaks to the relatability, like making videos that a lot of people will enjoy or a lot of people find funny. Um, and ads, organic ads, whatever. Um, and, um, they send it to people. Like people just send stuff a ridiculous amount on TikTok.

Speaker B: And the nature. Yeah, like you just hit it exactly. Like the nature of TikTok is community based. I mean, unlike, I think an Instagram, it's very like personal. You have to be very personally into like a person. TikTok is like, I mean, to me, 50% of the enjoyment is the comments. I read through the comments on every video.

Speaker A: Yeah, you sit there and have the sound like going over and over again in the video.

Speaker B: Uh, because we work in ads, we understand that like that doing that is driving more of those videos to us. 10 minutes reading the comments, and it's like TikTok is formatted to read the comments. Like half the time the comments are funnier than the video.

Speaker A: Exactly. It's actually like it's an, um. It's like both of them. The video is the video itself and the comments. Half the time that's like. Because even if it's. That's like, it could be a terribly like an ass video. But the comments so funny roasting the video that it'll just go crazy viral.

Speaker B: It's like, I mean, I mean there are literally trends that have developed just from a comment. Like my favorite example of this, I don't know, you've probably seen this. It blew up a while ago and it was a girl and a girlfriend or boyfriend. And it was just this, a sweet, wholesome video of um, this girlfriend, boyfriend, like laying in bed together. And it was like, I just love like when you find the right person. And it was like two years ago and the top comment was like, be right back, gonna go run, like lay myself on a stranger. Like it was something just sarcastic and dumb. But now if you watch any video. No, you're fine.

Speaker A: Okay. Hello?

Speaker B: Hello?

Speaker A: It just connected. My AirPods aren't even open and it just connected to them in the box.

Speaker B: Like, oh, my God. But yeah, like, it's just funny because that was just some dumb little comment someone made. And now it's like, I. You can't even watch a video of

Speaker A: a couple without someone commenting that in the comments. I'll be right back. And I go and like, boss with a toaster or whatever.

Speaker B: It's like, I'll be like, oh, I'm so happy for you guys.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, it's so funny. I love the way we can talk about this and picture the videos and picture the comments and like, camera, film.

Speaker B: You know exactly what I'm talking about. And it's like, that is something that was created from a comic. Like, no one posted a video about that. Yeah, that was just so. Yeah, this is.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that also, like, it's difficult reading the comments on Facebook. Like, for me, I don't know why, but like, to open the comments and to filter, like, get rid of most relevant, show me everything, whatever. It's like, it's not an enjoyable experience, really, because also, 90 of the time when you read the comments on Facebook, it's someone who's upset about something. Tick tock. It's like, boom, there's the comments and let me go. And like, I've watched the video once, now I'll watch it another 300 times while I read the comments.

Speaker B: Exactly. That's so true.

Speaker A: But anyway, that was awesome, actually. Thank you for jumping on the corn. I think the viewers will enjoy this TikTok video. Um, to the viewers, if you guys enjoy this kind of format where we just jump on a call and shoot the breeze about something that's relevant to E commerce, to the industry, please let us know down in the comments and, uh, subscribe for more videos like this. And, um, thank you for watching. See you next time.