From Michelin-rated Kitchens to CEO Mindset: The Truth About Hospitality Leadership. TSHS - 161

Speaker A: You are listening to the Social Hotelier Show, a, uh, podcast that inspires hoteliers to create meaningful and memorable experiences for their customers. In pursuit of their passion, we share our views and experiences relating to hospitality, technological trends, and also relating to humanity. Here is your host, Sam, um, Eric Ruttman. Hi, everyone. Welcome back to the Social Hotelier Podcast with me, Sam. Eric Rutman. Today I'm joined by someone many simply call Chef Frank. But behind that name is a story shaped by discipline, creativity, and unwavering commitment to excellence. From building his foundation in high performance kitchens to leading at the highest levels of luxury hospitality, Frank has seen it all. But what makes his conversation truly compelling is his bold career shift from intensity of operations into entrepreneurship, mentorship, and redefining leadership on his own terms. Let's get into it. Welcome, Frank, and thanks for joining us today.

Speaker B: Thank you for having me. Same, Eric. I'm very much looking forward to this episode.

Speaker A: Well, you have a very long, distinguished career, and in my introduction I already highlighted things that you've been doing without going into deep detail. And I know in many other interviews that you are in, you are going through quite a bit of detail, tell about your early career, but I thought I want to touch more base about how that journey, uh, has affected you. So if you look back, what's part of it? What part of your journey were the most defining? Not because they were successful, because they were really hard, because in a career like yours in hospitality, there's all kinds of peaks and valleys in their careers.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, there's been several inflection points in my career. Some of them that defined the person that I, I am today, and some of them that define the journey that I was about to take. Like, almost like I pivoted, uh, in order to, to become the new person that you have in front of you today. So I, I, I would say that the, uh, some of the earlier move that I made, originally when I joined the kitchen, I had no idea what fine dining was. Michelin star was, uh, I just wanted to cook. I wanted to skip high school and I wanted to cook. So, so I started to do that. And then very quickly I realized that there was a world of excellence. There was a world of, in a world where putting food on the plate was an art and a craft more than just feeding people. And so I very much pivoted towards that very quickly and realized, um, that it was a journey that was, uh, worth taking on. Um, uh, but at the same time was also quite difficult and challenging because of the format and the setting of what it requires for you to uh, adopt as skills in order to pursue. And then I continue my journey like this in the kitchen. And uh, very quickly I got the virus of traveling. I realized that I was able uh, to travel by still doing what I love to do and was passionate about. So I started to travel the world in all places and join hotels and resort in a luxury realm. Um, and uh, and did that. And then that pursued my journey a little bit further when I decided to become Director of Food and Beverage and kind of uh, in hospitality. You would think someone in the kitchen say you kind of going on the dark side, you're going into the front of the house and uh, and so you're going on the dark side of things. Uh, but I really enjoy my journey. I realized some of the skills that I needed to learn, uh, that was never presented to me in the back of the house when I was in the kitchen. So I kind of became a more holistic approach to food and beverage rather than just being a chef. And then uh, back in 2020 uh, when uh, the pandemic happened, I'm someone that doesn't know how to stand still. And uh, so I was faced with similar challenge and I would say similar um, um questions that most people get questioned at some point in their career in hospitality is you're giving you all and you're giving so much time and efforts into the world of hospitality and uh, you're trying to found and uh, trying to create a family. But both of them are very easy and very hard. Sorry, very hard and challenging to balance. And so I've decided to build my company incrementum back in 2020 which I became 2023, first time, uh, full time entrepreneurship and uh, decided to do that. So it allowed me to uh, do things on my own and became my own boss. So I was able to uh, create a company that um, generated. I uh, would say um, generated opportunities for me to be home more uh, now that I have two young kids and be a family man first and then uh, entrepreneur second.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean I have a great deal of respect for what you have doing because I have many colleagues and friends that started in the kitchen environment and then had an opportunity to move to a operational role, Director of Food and beverage or AIM, food and beverage etc. And even escalated to managing directors or even CEOs of companies. And there's some learnings that you learn from being starting in the kitchen because there are people who cannot quite get it. Uh, they're not successful in that transition period. But what do you see is that key in the transition from being in the kitchen, the very hierarchy of the kitchen, then you move into where you're dealing with a lot of different departments. They're all like their own businesses. How do you deal with those people? How did you. But you're listening from your side.

Speaker B: Yeah, of course, it was, uh, it was not easy to do. Um, it. It was, you know, when I decided to go into the front of the house as director fnb, I was already a very well established exec chef. So I had my reputation, I had my, uh, I had done somewhat of a career there. And suddenly you arrive in the front of the house with what you believe, you know it all, you've done it all, and you know exactly what to do. And very quickly you realize that, uh, you don't know it all. Uh, there's plenty of things. You have no idea what it was. You're dealing with guests now directly in front of them, rather than having a pass or window in between. Um, so what I think the skill that I would say that you have to learn first is humility is understanding that you don't know what you're doing. And it's okay, you are you already in the position. But the reality check is while you don't know what you're doing yet, you also expected to know because you, the director of Food and beverage, you the authority of the entire division. Therefore, when you have a server that comes to you and say, hey, I've got this guest that would like to have some lamb, he's looking for recommendation for wine. And you realize as a chef is like, okay, I don't know nothing about wine. Um, and so, so you're just starting to realize the reality check that you don't really know everything from the front of the house. So humility will be the first skills that you will need to learn and being able to learn from your peers, from your colleagues, and even from your staff, they've been in this position. So once you open up that level of culture of humility, uh, very quickly, you still have knowledge, you're still receiving feedback, and you just need to take them to heart, listen very well and apply them. Because at the end of the day, uh, you have to stay a student of hospitality, regardless of your journey and how many years you spend in it.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. You know, you talk about. I talk also about excellence. And I'm, uh, just wondering, I'm always curious when I meet someone like yourself, uh, is excellence something that can actually be taught at scale, or is it still something deeply personal and rare?

Speaker B: I think it still can be taught at scale, but I think it needs to start with the unseen. Excellence is, Excellence is not necessarily, um, the beautiful plate, uh, one great night. It's the care. It's the individual person. It's almost excellent. Has to become personal. You have to be able to walk into a restaurant as a young server and realizing that your tables are not aligned and you go and align them rather than just walking by and just say, well, it doesn't seem to affect anybody. Nobody's seen it. Nobody cares. Like, you just, you have to make it personal without necessarily waiting for someone to tell you what to do. So it's, it's, it's really the application, the discipline that you allow yourself to have without necessarily having an environment that is conducive to it. If you start doing this, you can leave excellence in an environment that is not excellent. Um, and I think once you have a boss, a supervisor, a manager, a chef that cares deeply about excellence, and it trickle down to your supervisor and then trickle down to your hourly team members, then that's where you can walk into an environment and you can feel the excellence that just surrounding the space.

Speaker A: Yeah. Do you ever miss the chaos and immediacy of the kitchen? Or was it something you were ready to leave behind?

Speaker B: I, I, I, uh, do miss sometimes. Uh, I miss the adrenaline, at least the rush of it. Uh, but I, I, I'm, I'm a new person now in a way that now I'm, I'm doing different things. I've got a different kind of rush and a different kind of adrenaline boost. Um, so I do cook at home often. I never lose an opportunity to go help someone that is in need and jumping behind the line because I miss it. Um, but I would say I probably would be very rusty if I were to go back in the kitchen, uh, and just get back into the heat of the things. I think I can export pretty well. Still. That's not a skill that you lose very easy. But I think cooking to the speed and to the efficiency that I used to, I like to probably admit that I probably would be very rusty.

Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, whenever I go back to a hotel, I feel something. I'm always looking for the vibe. And I actually enjoy going back to hotels. I enjoy going to restaurants. And, uh, I have to admit, I'm, uh, no, no. I don't know about you, but are you quite critical when you go to a restaurant to have a meal or Are you just kind of. Okay, I'm here as a guest and I'm just gonna, I'm not gonna give my five cents very much so you

Speaker B: can, you can help it.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I know. I just had experience yesterday where I, I was ready to say, well okay, I want to put something in writing here. But I. That's a cool down and enjoying the moment instead.

Speaker B: That's very much so.

Speaker A: Yeah. So, um, I think now uh, we should look at a little bit about uh, the career change. I mean the career change from kitchen and to consultancy. Entrepreneurship is a massive identity shift. You mentioned that there was an opportunity that uh, once the COVID hit, what was sort of the trigger that triggered, besides the COVID that triggered you to move into the uh, on your own as a consultant.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I mean the. During uh, Covid, we obviously had to lay off a lot of people. We were, I'm not going to say we're bored because I was fortunate enough to be in an environment and in a, and in a, uh, in a place that never really closed. So I was, I was still working throughout the pandemic. Um, and. But there was a part of me that had had over the years an ability to teach, coach and mentor young professional. And I decided, I say what if I were to do that at scale? How do I able to make an impact, uh, how do I access the people that don't necessarily gonna have the chance or the opportunity to work under my leadership? How do I scale? And so that's where I created my company. Incrementum was really to have certification, uh, under my belt to prove that I'm able to teach, coach and mentor, uh, from a business side of things and decided uh, to specialize in hospitality because that was the background of my upbringing. Uh, and uh, and so I decided to do that uh, during that time, uh, that took me about a year to be certified. And then after that I built my company. In the meantime, when I built my company, that was at the time we decided to relocate with my wife and uh, and my very young daughter. When relocated, she was five weeks old into Connecticut. Uh, and so uh, at that time I had to put my company and my, my decision and my. Some of my on the side burner because uh, you know, becoming a father for the first time, homeowner for the first time, all of this has to take precedent over uh, the dreams and desire until it settle. And that's why I waited a few years. 2023 was the right time. And that's where I took the leap, yeah.

Speaker A: Going from operator to entrepreneur. What's the biggest illusion people have about that transition in your opinion?

Speaker B: Um, I wouldn't say there is illusion because I was fortunate enough when I left the operation to become entrepreneur, I was still being called to go help a property need and doing exactly what I just left behind me. So I was not necessarily confronted into a drastic change. I was just being asked if Frank, you just left director fnb 3 months ago, can you come here to help me out as a director FNB and help me? The difference is more about the way you're being treated, uh, the way they, the expectation that they have from you when you come to a property, they're not only expecting you to bridge the gap, but they also expect you. It's almost like your feedback and your suggestion are more welcome. For whatever reason, you suddenly, you become overnight, uh, an overnight success and an overnight expert. Uh, when you become a consultant, there is this underlying uh, condition that arrive, when you arrive on property, now you're an expert, whatever you say goes. I, I got very surprised with, with, with that feeling when I go to a meeting and say, let me introduce you to Frank. Frank is here to help us out for the next 60 days. So Frank, what did you see from the operation? And I just like, well this is what I saw. And you what? Everyone's starting taking notes and I'm just like wow, this is crazy. So, so the way you're being treated and the way you're being received as an entrepreneur has a lot more um, weight and power than when I was a full time director of. Even though I was fulfilling the same duties.

Speaker A: Yeah, I noticed the same effect. And the thing is that uh, they will always check you out in advance. Okay. What did Frank do here? He was 25 years, what he has accomplished and so on. So that always adds uh, on top of uh, what they expect from you. And when you open your mouth and you say something which is of value, they will positively uh, recognize that, I'm sure.

Speaker B: Mhm. Very much so. I agree, I agree.

Speaker A: Yeah. The turnaround of hotels, I'm going quite interested about you have done or you're doing in fact. Uh, but you worked on transitions like W to JW Marriott for example. What's the harder to transform the brand promise? Or is it the internal culture or what are the things that you are paying attention to?

Speaker B: I think the one of my strengths in my career has been internal culture. I believe a lot stem from the internal culture. Uh, when the majority of the place that I walked into they would tell me, you know, during the interview process, they would tell you, frank, we have issues with this, we have issue with this, we have issue with this. And they usually very, um, P and L driven. You know, they're usually labor cost issue, food cost issue, or we have uh, labor opportunities. Um, so with short staff like they usually symptoms, what I would think are more symptoms of, uh, the result of a culture that is not necessarily healthy. Um, so when I walked into it, the first steps of. Usually what I would do is I would sit down with all the managers and I'm, um, going to say all the managers is from the top to the bottom and just understanding what's their struggles, what is it that they're good at, what is it that they're not. And you end up having, you realize that most people will be, I don't know what it is that they will feel like so compelled to tell you everything to a stranger, but they usually feel like, oh, finally someone's asking me what's going on here. And so they ended up literally telling me everything that they're struggling with. Uh, a little bit of positive. But oftentimes I would say the majority of the conversation is this, uh, is our struggles. Uh, and so before I'm looking even to a P and L, I would look into what is their struggles. Do they have the tools to do their job? Do they the proper staff? Why is it that, what's the obstacle for the staff and you finding out that usually it's logistical issues. Um, you have, do you have managers that love to spend time in the office while some others love to spend time on the floor? You're going to have staff, uh, that doesn't have tools. They don't even have enough glasses to finish an entire service on a Saturday night. So those little things that you realize, um, they're not, they just, they're just very easy, quick fix, but they're culture related. The staff is raising their hand, is telling you, I need more glasses to do my service on Saturday night. Why? It's been six months I've been asking for glasses and I still don't have the glasses. So. So all of those things, they're usually internal, culture related. And that's, that's always been my focus, is building the team, finding out the level of engagement. Because it's hard when, uh, when you have a director of nbsa, I've got a team, a, uh, staff member, they don't really care. But then after I'm doing my first two to three days I realized that even the management team does not necessarily care to. Of engagement you expect. So how can you expect a team member's team to care when the management doesn't show care towards the operation? So I would say and always will be looking at the culture first.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean also, I mean one of the things I learned about every touch point reveals something about the culture, what's going on in the hotel. And that's where I'm very sensitive to also. Uh, but do you feel the hotel can operate at luxury level if the culture behind the scenes doesn't quite reflect it?

Speaker B: Uh, this is a controversial question. I would say, um, I would say yes. But um, what I have experienced and what I've noticed and observed over the past now three years is the properties that are necessarily, that are. When I see, when we're, we're looking at the level of excellence, we're going to look into the four, five star, we're going to look into the Michelin keys, so the one that are recognized by the industry as being some of the best of the best. And when you walk into those operations, you uh, realize that there's quite a lot that is disjointed. So while I would like to say that the best hotel that are succeeding and living and breathing the level of excellence, they have a healthy culture, I've also experienced hotels when it's like, it's a culture of fear. Uh, it's a culture where uh, you cannot make a mistake, but it's hard to come to work, it's difficult. Um, people not necessarily smiling, but they're smiling because it's scripted. Um, they're going to talk to you because it's scripted and you're just missing that level of emotional connection that you wish to have in a luxury environment. Because I like to think that luxury is not necessarily all the marbles and gold and beautiful things. Anyone can buy a beautiful mattress and a beautiful bed. But it's very hard to be engaged when you come to the host stand at 6 o' clock in the morning for breakfast and you're getting welcome like you just uh, won the lottery. Uh, so it's all those things that's going to make a difference, in my opinion.

Speaker A: Yeah. When a hotel is underperforming, how often is the real issue operational versus human?

Speaker B: Um, I would say it's a mix of both. Ah, usually you're going to have um, uh, the lack of um, human capital support that's going to lead into having the operation starting to take shortcuts. I Think their conditionment of lacking the support that they need or the tools that they need will make them taking some shortcuts. And when you start taking shortcut, then now all the elements, the standard, the processes, they're starting to take a, to take a hit, uh, from this lack of uh, involvement and engagement from the staff or the management.

Speaker A: Yeah. When you go into a new property and then for uh, whether it's rebranding or your pride and consultancy, uh, trust you keep yourself a time to evaluate everything while you are there. Before you say anything but what's the first uncomfortable truth you usually have to tell an owner or leadership team when you have observed certain things that are in your opinion that needs to be fixed?

Speaker B: Um, this is a very good question. I don't tend to share unless I'm being asked. Uh, I'm going to be very uh, secretive I guess. I'm going to make my own observation. I'm going to try to plant the seed by just saying, hey, uh, here is what I'm noticing. Here is my early observation. And I'm going to do that within the first three days. Here are my early observations. This is something, but allow me some time to spend in order to see if, if it was just a coincidence or something that I wish was different. And so I spent another week observing. And then at that point the person that I did talk to will be impatient to know what I've observed. They will be the one that's going to come and ask me to say, frank, give me it all, tell me the truth. What is it that you notice? But that technique of just uh, sharing my early concern, um, uh, I think it's years of experience that allow me to really pick on those things. Um, and oftentimes you have uh, you nail exactly what they thought was an issue. But now they're getting, like I said, like I was saying earlier, you're the expert. You're the guy that comes here to tell you what he sees and suddenly your voice, your observation have so much weight and power, then when you bring it up suddenly becomes truth to them or some sort of validation and acknowledgment that what they thought was actually the reality?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean when you come as an external expert and you see leadership from the outside, uh, are there any patterns, do you notice about underperforming luxury hotels that you have noticed over the years where you have gone into a property and then uh, you look at it from a leadership and management point of view, what are sort of patterns that you have noticed about Hotels that are particularly in a luxury level that are underperforming.

Speaker B: I would say over the last few years, the patterns that I've noticed is um, it's a different generational of leadership. I think we have um, leaders that are a lot more green than what they used to be. It feels like, uh, and it's no fault on their own, they're just following their own journey. They're just going to take the opportunities that is in front of them. But I realized very quickly, I just like wow, you've been spending. And when I'm doing my one on one with those manager and kind of sharing with me their resumes and just say, wow, you move quite quick. Like you just been in the last three years, you've been promoted three times. Uh, and I'm just looking at this, I see this pattern and it does not necessarily, I would say does not necessarily excuse the leadership, but I think he exposed the weak leadership of some operation. I think very quickly you got the general manager say, I don't understand, I've got my whole staff and I have everyone on position, but I don't get the result. But everyone is not necessarily seasoned in their position. So not only they have to learn their own job, but they also have to teach whoever is under them with the little that they know about. And it's this entire snowball effect trickle down into the staff and the staff who has been senior in the role, they're going to be raising their hand and say I haven't been trained on this. I don't know how to do this. Uh, I know we don't have an SOP for this to say, do you know how to run this? Um, from a Forbes standard? I say we didn't receive for standard. Okay, so you're just realizing the weak points of your, of your operation and usually is going to bring back to the leadership. The leadership will be usually exposed and that's where you will be able to see those patterns. Uh, over the years. That would be what I have noticed over the years.

Speaker A: Yeah. Are there some common blind spots you see in leadership teams at the luxury level because of maybe they're inexperienced or they have not been long enough or they haven't had their own mentors to guide them.

Speaker B: I think the blind spot would be and the weak spot would be the lack of mentorship. You just. For whatever reason, and this is why I preach when I was, when I go into operation or what I preach in my book is when you don't know something, uh, you don't have to wait for someone to teach you. You have access to an information, you can look for this information, you can learn those information. Uh, it just comes from humility, being able to be in a place when you realize that you don't know it all. It's not because you're being given a title, uh, and money. Then now you expect it to know everything. But a lot of people act and behave like they do know everything because they're scared of being exposed for what they don't know, uh, and, or being held accountable for what they don't know. So it's, um, I would say that, um, those are the weak points that I would notice is just having a leadership that just doesn't show humility for their, for their weakest point.

Speaker A: Yeah, you have said that you don't know how to stand still. Why do you think so many hospitality professionals struggle with stillness?

Speaker B: Um, I think they just think they're capitalizing on the environment to be doing the job. I think there's always something to learn, there's always something to work on, there's always something to improve. Just have to open your eyes and pay attention. And if you don't want to do that and you don't know how to do that, then just read the guest reviews. The guest reviews are, uh, the answers to the test. You've already, you've already taken the test. You have all the answers. Just read the reviews. And yes, sure, you might not agree with 100% of the reviews, but you might pay attention to the patterns of what the guest is saying and starting to create a critical pass. And that from that critical pass, you just starting to put everyone responsible for their own part and you're starting to drive the boat. Um, so I think it's, uh, it's a constant questioning, uh, can we do better tomorrow than what we were today? And I think as long as you continue to ask yourself that question, you will be against stillness. You will start ingraining to everybody that this is not the way to go.

Speaker A: Uh,

Speaker B: don't stay just looking at your property and thinking we're doing a good job because the guest reviewers are great. And, uh, at the end of the day, there's always something to do better. I truly believe that.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, this is a very good point and actually so obvious about, uh, reading the guest comments and not take it like, uh, that the guest doesn't know what they're talking about. You know, they are. And, uh, that's so true. And also to teach the staff who are reading those Reviews also to report exactly what they heard and also if they had a chance to speak to the guests who had some issues.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Um, yeah. So uh, ah, I'm just thinking a little bit more about your purpose because you have done, uh, you're doing consultancy now and uh, as you move forward, further into, you're doing also public speaking, coaching, consulting. What legacy are you hoping to develop now towards the latter part of your career?

Speaker B: Ah, legacy is a big word because um, I, I don't necessarily look to leave a, ah, legacy behind, but I look to be able to what Everything that I've learned over the last 20 plus, 25 plus years is to be able to impact a generation of future workers that's going to join the industry. If I'm able to impact them and prepare them for what the world of industry is. I would love, I guess I would love for this to be my legacy. Uh, is being accessible, doing podcasts, talking about the craft, about the world of hospitality, being a voice for them, um, could hopefully change the narrative and uh, being able to uh, educate and informed younger generation, uh, to join the world of hospitality. Because I think in the last 25 years we've been short staff and I think it's going to continue for a long time. We just need to be a little bit more evolving with the generation rather than trying to impose our way of doing to younger generation. I think we need to be more open minded and a little bit more able to reframe how the younger generation, what, what they're bringing on the table and how we can help them succeeding in this industry.

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean like yourself who has worked several years in industry and um, with your years experience and your leadership today, what would you hope? What would you hope people say once they have had a chance to work with you in the future that what they could have picked up, uh, about your background, your techniques and about your leadership that will help them to succeed in their own careers.

Speaker B: I would love for them if I had been able to be um, accessed through my website or through someone who listened to a podcast or someone who read my book. Um, so anyone who have access to something that I preach, I think that I have a very common message and I've got a very um, healthy philosophy when it comes to leadership and I like for people to just realize that m. Sometimes when you work in an environment that does not value you, maybe the environment is not right for you and it's okay. You just need to look for an environment when you feel valued. Um, and uh, if you make those change. I like to believe that people who has been in my contact, um, some of them I still friends with from my career that I spend and we still speak monthly, bimonthly, um, and they always seek out the uh, um, little advice or the little suggestion of the next step. And I like to be that for them. I like to be approachable, um, I continue my own journey but at the same time I like to remain approachable for people, um, through communication and um, through access, any kind of access.

Speaker A: If you're looking back at your journey, what is the one standard you refuse to compromise on and no matter the circumstance? Wow.

Speaker B: Um, one standard that I refuse to compromise, um, because it will be one

Speaker A: of those pillars about who you are.

Speaker B: Yes, for sure. I um, would say I refuse to compromise the patience of the results. Um, I am someone that, yes, I've ah, in some point of my career I was very young into what I was doing, but I had put in the work. I was doing my own journey. I've never really taken an opportunity in front of me unless I felt ready for it. I didn't take it for the money, I didn't take it for the title. I just took it because it was the right time and I felt ready for it. So I think the patience of the result, the result will always come, it will always be a result, uh, an outcome based on choices and decisions that you've made. Um, there's no reason to rush that because if you do rush that, there's going to be a time when you will be exposed because you wish you had learned those skills. Um, so the patience of the result will be, uh, something I'm unwilling to compromise.

Speaker A: That's a very good answer. Uh, we have one more question before we move to the off the mic segment. The question is, ah, what does true excellence in hospitality feel like when it's done right?

Speaker B: Um, I would say true excellence feels like uh, what's being unseen. I think it's uh, it's the um, I think it's the staff, the way they carry themselves. The level of care is the emotional touch points. When you have a server that was not necessarily the most polished or uh, the one that hit all the standard. But it made me feel like my anniversary was, the play was the best anniversary I've spent. It's really the emotional connection of the staff. So for me that's true luxury. Like I said, every hotel and every resort can find the best of the best of your environment and um, your tables, your chairs or your mattresses and Your rooms and your TVs. Everyone can find the best of the best. But I think it will come to the staff connection. Uh, if you can train your staff to be emotionally connected into the guest and enjoying what they're doing to a level of, that it's personal to them, then I think you would have uh, hit the level of luxury and excellence that most people are looking for these days.

Speaker A: Do you have any maybe a small anecdote, example of what has happened to you that would describe this?

Speaker B: Um, yeah, I mean I um. When I joined hotel, that would be probably one of the last experience that I had uh, in hotels. Which was back in uh, 2021. I joined a hotel where a resort here in Connecticut. And I was told that um, hard to find staff, very difficult. We're in the middle of the countryside in Connecticut. Ah, very hard to find staff for people to feel that they can drive 45 minutes to come to work. And for me the most challenging the property, the most I'm feeling drawn and attracted to go and work there. Uh, that's just the drive that I have. And so when I got to this property, um, there was a um, toxic culture um, of property. The management that was in place was uh, saying a lot of great things but not necessarily following through into what was supposed to happen. And so very quickly I started to pay attention, observing. Um, I did spend some time with the management but I've realized very quickly that actually my management team um, was the opportunities. The staffing was not bad. The staffing just had lost their direction and they lost their uh, sense of engagement towards the guest. And so how do you do that when you are in the place when it's difficult to hire and your management team is the issue or the challenge or the opportunity? The staff, I started to have one on one with the staff and uh, getting the answers from them the same way I would get the guest reviews. I started to see the guest review and realized through the guest reviews that a lot of our issues was happening, uh, during the time when uh, there was disjointment within my management team. And so we started to tackle the management team first. Hiring for attitude and teaching the skills. Um, so I started to hire the right people, um, that did not necessarily have the right background or the perfect background, but they had the right attitude, someone I could model and coach to become a better person and do that. So we started to do this and very quickly the uh, culture of the property started to change. And the people that left prior, before I arrived, that was good People and they left because they could not handle the environment anymore. They started to come back one by one. And when I was starting to ask the staff and just say, hey, do you remember, uh, Brandon? And he said, oh, yeah, I remember Brandon. I say, he's looking to come back. Do you think it's a good fit? And then you got five out of five that tell me Brendan needs to come back. And so suddenly the culture is starting to recreate itself because now you're starting to be a bit healthier. You're building a management team that it, that cares and is deeply engaged towards the staff. And so once you're creating a management team that care and deeply engaged, the staff is starting to be deeply engaged, you're starting to buy their tools in order to do their job, then the guest becomes the result of what you created.

Speaker A: Very good. Okay, so before we move to the off the mic, uh, you have written a book. Uh, tell us what the book is and where could they find it? And also, if they want to connect with you directly, how can they connect with you?

Speaker B: Of course. Um, so the book is called Relentless Cultivating a Chef Mindset for Professional Fulfillment. It is a book that is written from, uh, technically, all the learning lessons and the scars of my journey in hospitality. Um, it really gives you somewhat of a blueprint. It's a lot of, um, introspection to do. There's a lot of questioning to do. But the book is written technically a book for you versus you, with you against you. It's really, it's really taking you into your own journey of where you at. Regardless if you are a young professional joining the industry and still at the Culinary Institute of America, for example, or if you are just, uh, young managers that's really lost, or you are a seasoned manager, a seasoned leader or seasoned director executive that has lost his spark and the desire to be doing what. And so this book is really written for all of the above in order to reignite desire of the hospitality and figure it out what is your true passion and what is, what is, what is it your true purpose in the world of hospitality. So you can find it on my website. So on Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, everywhere you can find it. And, uh, if you want to be access to me, very easy to find. I'm very active on LinkedIn, on Instagram and Facebook. Otherwise you can go on my two website, uh, which is cheffrank.com or incrementumllc.net that will be the best way to reach out to me.

Speaker A: Very good, Frank. I Will put those links to you in our description of this episode so people can reach out to you under one click. Very good. So, uh, that was that part of the conversation. And now, uh, the final segment is off the mic. It's more like, uh, consider that we move from meeting room to the library and we have these two comfortable, uh, couches where we can have a chat and there's uh, maybe two glass of uh, brandy or cognac. We can sit and have a chat. Overall, get to know each other and uh, I have a few questions because I'd like to get to know who Frank is behind, uh, the Persona, behind the personality or vice versa. So in the kitchen side, be honest. On a scale of calm leader to throwing pan, how intense were you on your worst kitchen day?

Speaker B: On my worst kitchen day, um, on a scale I was, um. I never really throw stuff away. I've been throwing stuff at for sure. Um, but I never throw stuff. But I could be very intense and create a very fearful environment. That is definitely the old franc in me that, uh. Yes, yes, I would have done that easily.

Speaker A: What is your first musical memory?

Speaker B: Musical memories.

Speaker A: First. First musical memory.

Speaker B: First musical memory. Um, I would say something that's still with me today is I'm a huge movie soundtrack original fan. So I would say any musical memories that I have, they all link into a movie that I, I watched and I felt drawn into.

Speaker A: Very good. Uh, what's something you have done in the kitchen that would definitely get you cancelled if there were were a camera?

Speaker B: I don't think I've done anything really out of sorts. Um, no, I don't think I've really done anything out of sort that would get me cancelled or anything out of camera beside not just. I, uh, I, if there was sound on the camera for sure there would be some cursing and there would be some uh, like I said, this fearful environment that I used to create. But otherwise, no, I haven't done anything really crazy to get me into trouble. That level.

Speaker A: Yeah, you worked at the highest level, but have you ever completely messed up a dish and just hope nobody noticed?

Speaker B: Of course. Hundred times.

Speaker A: Times.

Speaker B: Yeah, 100 times. You, you just, uh. Sometimes you're not on the A game or you're just tired or you're exhausted or you're just not. Not there. You're not. It, it doesn't take a lot sometimes to just be completely sidetracked on the day that you're supposed to be on your A game. So yes, I've, I've done it a couple Times, A few times. Dishes when I didn't feel there was the right dish, but I was so exhausted that I just sent it all over. Uh, I'll, I'll deal with the backlash if there is. So you just, uh, sometimes you just, uh, make those poor decision. But, uh, that's what makes you human.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. So you've been, you have been traveling quite a bit. What's the one particular meal or food that you can't wait to get to when you get home again after your long trip?

Speaker B: M. I mean, I'm cooking at home, so it's usually, usually I, I don't necessarily look for a meal. I'm just looking to be surrounded with my wife, my two children, in order for cook a good meal at home. Uh, after my travels, I look forward to just be home in the comfort of my kitchen and just making, uh, a meal when we all around the table eating.

Speaker A: Very good. If you had to survive a dinner service with one celebrity as your sous chef, who would it be and who would you absolutely not trust near a knife?

Speaker B: Oh, um, a celebrity chef. I would love to do a service with Gordon Ramsay. I think it would be extremely entertaining and I think I would, I would have a kick out of it.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. I would look forward to see that show. Yeah. You talk about standards a lot. What's one area in your personal life where your standards mysteriously drop?

Speaker B: Mysteriously drop, you said? Yeah, um, I don't know. I like to think that I'm, I'm very much the same in the, in my work that I am at home. Uh, but I would say I, uh, I tend to be a bit softer at home than I am in the world of work just because, uh, I've got a wife and two girls and they get the best out of me. They soften me a little bit while I'm trying to stay, uh, true to myself by having discipline and uh, and uh, accountability and stuff like that. Uh, when they look at you with those. I have a five and a two year old, so when they look at you with their puppy eyes, it's hard to, uh, not be soft. So I would say that, uh, they get the softer version of me when I'm at home. For sure.

Speaker A: Very good. The final question would be that, uh, uh, you have an opportunity to host a dinner and your dinner guests are someone who is, uh, a well known personality of today or somebody from the history or somebody you really admire.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker A: And you would have a conversation about life or food or whatever you like to have. Who would they be? That you would invite for dinner and what would you speak, talk about?

Speaker B: Um, I would say I would have loved to be, ah, in a place where I would have learned to spend more time by learning. Anthony Bourdain, I know he had, he had such a outlook of life and I got into getting interested into this Persona and who he is, uh, much too late, uh, before his passing. Um, so I wish that I had learned about him earlier. I wish that I had got drawn into him earlier in order to be inspired from him earlier.

Speaker A: Yeah. Anyone else? I mean, there would be two or three people that would join the dinner part with you.

Speaker B: Okay. Um, so Anthony Bourdain, I would say I would love to have spent some time with a French chef called Paul, uh, Bocuse, um, learning everything about him and kind of his journey. And I would love to have learned a little bit how uh, the guest, the French gastronomy who has, has inspired millions in the world became and came to be just, uh, just having the storytelling from the earlier stage of what Paul Boku's life was in the kitchen and, and learning instead of learning in the book is learning from the, the person ends, um, on.

Speaker A: Yeah, wonderful. Well, I think that uh, kind of is the end of our off the mic and we got to know a little bit more, more about the uh, uh, Frank d'. Applachant. So thanks very much for joining today and thanks for all your incredible input.

Speaker B: Thank you. Sam, Eric, appreciate you and thank you for having me on the show.

Speaker A: Thanks for joining us this week on the Social Hotelier show. Make sure to visit our website, the socialhoteliershow blueberry.net where you can subscribe to the show in Apple Podcast, Spotify, Google Play or via, uh, rss. So you never, never miss a show while you're at it. If you find value in this show, we appreciate a rating in Apple podcast. Or if you simply tell a friend about the show, that will help us out too. Be sure to tune in for our next episode.