438 - Special Episode - Scott McLellan

Speaker A: Welcome to the Sales Dojo Podcast.

Speaker B: The podcasts are here to help you

Speaker A: address the real issues salespeople face every single day. The podcast will help you close those sales, hit those targets, get paid those commissions, and buy them shoes.

Speaker C: Welcome back to the Sales Dojo Podcast. Chris. How are we? Yeah, good stuff, good stuff. Hey, Scott, how are you?

Speaker A: I'm really good. You know what, though? I was hoping Chris would be a bit more enthusiastic there, by the way. Do you know what I mean? It's seven years since I've been on here and I was expecting a big welcome. Um, I'm all right, Chris.

Speaker C: We're just going to do the big welcome, but you can off now that you're dead.

Speaker A: Do you know what I mean?

Speaker B: I was just trying to be a bit juxtaposition so you'd look even better.

Speaker A: You see, Scott, amazing. Ed, you know what? Yeah, it's good to be on. It's, um, like I've just said jokingly, there's seven years, lots of change, but it's really good to be speaking to you guys again. And the fact that you're still going, right, and doing this after seven years is unbelievable. So well done.

Speaker C: Well, because it's so bad that you can't believe we're still doing it or.

Speaker A: Well, well, yeah, that is part of it, but, you know, be doing anything for this long and still looking as good gents, do you know what I mean? We're rocking.

Speaker C: Ah, stop, uh, sucking up now. You can piss off, Scott, before we start chatting about what we're going to chat about. You're where people can find you and what you're doing and stuff's all changed from last time when we had a conversation. So first off, where's the best place to people to get more Scott McClellan in their lives?

Speaker A: So, uh, no graft. Norglory.co.uk is the business. Um, and you can find me on there. You can also find me on LinkedIn under Scott McClellan and soon this month on YouTube under Norgraft, nor Glory YouTube channel. So all of usual outlets like subscribe and share, please.

Speaker C: Good stuff, good stuff. And our first question is, since you last came on, what's changed, uh, most in how you approach selling day to day and what sparked that shift? But before you do answer that bit. Yeah, tell us a little bit about no graph, no glory. What is it you're doing right now? What have you been doing since we last had John?

Speaker A: Yeah, cool. So when I last came on seven years ago, it was reading you. You guys Were amazing, really giving me a platform and an opportunity to get my then business out there. And I just left 16 years of the corporate world at that point and had a real passion to want to help leaders and salespeople with, to use emotional intelligence and really understanding their customers and how they were feeling and what they were doing. Um, and my business was going really well for about 18 months and then Covid hit and nobody wanted to pay for emotional intelligence or anything like that. So uh, my business went and I was in that horrible situation if you remember where if you hadn't had your business for 12 months and you couldn't prove income, you couldn't get any support of the government. So I had two young kids and had no support. So it was a bit of a blessing in disguise because I had to go back into the working world but had no desire to go back into the corporate world. So I um, moved into the startup and scale up world. So for the last seven years I've been um, a managing director and senior leader in two startup companies and both at sas. One as a sales, uh, director in the first one and then the second one, as I say I went in um, as a consultant, did the sales and then became the managing director after three years but grew both of those businesses by triple figures. And we went from three and four staff to staff in the 20s and had a lot of success in there. Um, and then about eight months ago I got the itch to want to go and help other people again. Um, really, really support founders and startup businesses and scale of businesses to, to really empower their sales and to understand how their sales processes and the foundations need to evolve with their business and really help people to understand when you set your own business up and let's say you want to be a consultant or you want to be a web designer or unfortunately 80% of that is sales. And if you're not willing to sell or understand how to sell, you're not going to have a business. So I'm really, I've really evolved my learns from the last seven years with the previous 16 years and created no graph, no glory, which does what it says on the tin, right? You don't put the hard work in, you're not going to get the glory. So that's what I've been doing for the last seven years.

Speaker B: I've realized Leon's expected me to speak because I've not muted my mic out. Like I've got some really clever question to come next. So I'm going to have to really think on. Scott. Um, tell us about the name. I mean you say it's self explanatory, but usually people, when they name the business something like you've named it, it's because there's a real passionate belief about that thing behind them. So give us the skinny on that.

Speaker A: Yeah. So there's two main reasons I did it. Right. So the wider worldview was around if we look on social media now, right. And a lot of the younger people are people setting up businesses. Look at people who've been successful in business, right. On social media, coming on podcasts, on clips and think that it just comes really easy. Right. So I'm going to set a business up. I've watched all these people, YouTube, Instagram tells me how to do it. So it'll just work. They don't realize that there is a hell of a lot of work or uh, there's a good northeastern lad. Graft needs to go into that for that business to succeed. So I really wanted for it to say what I do on the tin. Get the graft, you'll get the glory. But most importantly, putting the graft in the right places. And I'll tell you a little bit about, more about that in a moment. And then the second part was it came from my learns, as I said, in the startup world. So I see business owners and sales people and sales leads working really, really, really hard. Yeah. But loads of times in the wrong places and they're putting all the graft and all their energy in the wrong places and wondering why they aren't getting momentum or building momentum in their sales or then when the business grows, certain founders or uh, other founders then feel that they don't have to work as hard. So I really wanted to encapsulate everything that I've learned in that one statement of no graph, no glory. And plus it's a bit of fun and it's really catchy. Right. People remember it.

Speaker C: Yeah, I love that. Look, we've, we've had quite a few chats about this kind of stuff in the office and things like that, Scott. So I obviously know loads about it. But I wanted you to share a little bit for listeners who don't know who you are and didn't listen to the first podcast. Um, and I do love that I want to ask you the question though, around what maybe changed for you. So you said you worked in the corporate world and you did that kind of stuff before. So is there, uh, something that's changed for you the way that you personally approach selling from when you used to do it to how you do it now.

Speaker A: Uh, yes. Fundamentally in making sure that my sales process and my approach to sales is built on firm foundations, on real structure. Yeah. Of really understanding what that sales process looks like. So my business isn't doing a bit like what you and Chris. And Chris has done it. Really supporting people with that absolute skill of being able to pick up the phone. Yeah. Or, uh, really closing that deal. And really looking at that. I'm really working with business owners and sales leads to say, before any of that, you really need to get the foundations correct from who you're selling to why you're selling, what the value is. Yeah. When you're selling and really understanding that. And that's fundamentally what's changed for me. I made loads of mistakes. Right. I've been in the sales game for 20 years. I've made loads of mistakes. I've loads of successes. And I really sat down when I set the business up and thought, what's worked really, really well for me and what hasn't worked really, really well? Because I'm sure all three of us can agree when we're running businesses, we've all made loads of mistakes. Right. And it's how you learn from them. So what's changed is I've really narrowed down the approach that I take for sales leaders and people setting up their own businesses. And it's breaking into three sections. Uh, clarity, control and consistency in their sales and their approach to sales and. And their sales processes. And that is fundamentally where I've seen

Speaker B: the success that clarity, control, consistency. It's on the wall right behind you. If you're watching us on YouTube right now, or TikTok or wherever else we are, you'll see this. There's one of those words to me, really stands out for what I see a lot of success is being missed in sales teams in businesses. And that's your last word, consistency. Um, we all know salespeople have. I've been that salesperson. I think everybody on this call right now have been that salesper who have had that great month, quarter or week and gone. Ah, sales. Nailed it. Completed it, mate. Yeah. Because you've had that big deal and then dust balls from then on. Um, yeah, that consistency is the key, isn't it? Um, so I love that you've got that up there, Scott. If there's anybody listening to this right now, let's not necessarily say a business owner, an employed salesperson, and they're having that absolute roller coaster of a year up and down. What would you say to them about getting some consistency?

Speaker A: So consistency has to come after clarity and control. Right. For the reason is. So I was looking at him, why was I inconsistent? Or why did, when I was leading my sales teams or running my business, why did I not get that nice consistent growth in my model and my sales? And that was because of two things. So one, I never got, I never spent the time to reflect on how we got the successes or what was working. And that's the clarity. Right. It's about understanding what's worked for you over the last 3, 6, 9, 12 months. Or if you're a newer business. Yeah. What's what you want to work for you or what's worked for you in previous roles. So really having that clarity about what you were doing and why you're doing it. Because Chris, if you're not, if you're not clear on what you're doing, your consistency will go out the window because you don't know why or what you're doing. So you stop doing it. You think it works and then you go what's going on? You know, and you get to the end of that month and then if you haven't got the controls in place to allow you to be consistent. So again what I would talk to you there about and you guys listen, if they're running sales teams, if you don't have the correct um, pipeline in place. So you know, understanding your sales pipeline and your stages on that pipeline. Absolutely. Understanding your sequences. So again, what are your sequences to get in touch with your customers? You know, what has been successful for you and is it two phone calls, three phone calls, LinkedIn messages, emails, look, you'll read lots of things. 15 touch points, 20 point touch points, seven touch points. All of that's true, but it's not true for your business. So it's about understanding what worked for you and your business. And if you get the clarity and understand what you're doing, when you're doing and why you're doing it, then you put the controls in place. So you know weekly what your non negotiables are. We all know, right, Chris, that the best first thing to go for most people is the bit that they do and most. Right. And that's normally picking up the phone and calling somebody. Right. Because we know resilience is a nightmare and it's ship just being told no all the time. Which is why you have a business, because you help people do that and get the controls in place. So we want them to be in total Control. And if you get those two bits right, consistency becomes easier for you. And the last thing you have to control is your own ability.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You have to be accountable to somebody. So making sure that you're not switching off, you're not going to say I'll do those, I'll do that prospecting tomorrow morning or uh, you know, I'll make those other five phone calls tomorrow, whatever that is. Because I'm sure a musician said tomorrow never comes. Right. And it always gets put off. Put off, put off. You know, so, so that is where I'm at with that. Chris. I hope that made sense.

Speaker B: 100 Scott and um, really interesting point you make about what do we put off? Well, we, we hide the thing that we like the least, don't we? It's the pushing the PE around the plates. It's the um, I've just checked check LinkedIn before I do this or I can't do that until I've done this. And all these procrastination things comes in, these places of safety come in um, without just breaking this down one by one. Scott though, but in the middle there is control. Now that, that can mean a million different things, can't it, in this context. Could you tell us a bit more about control?

Speaker A: Yeah. So in the sales, let's talk fully just on sales and running a sales team or uh, are, uh, you as a salesperson? Control is making sure that you're in control of that sales process and it's not in control of you. So for example, let's look at what controls you need. So you need to understand and be in control of your day, your week and your month. Right. So what does a day look like? It's easiest to break it down to a day. Right. So when are my customers most likely to pick up the phone? Yeah, I'll give you a great example. I worked with a client who were selling it to schools, right. And um, they couldn't get hold of the schools. And I said when are you making your phone calls? And they said well you know, we do them between um, 11 and one every day. Um, and I was like, well why 11 and one? Because if you're in school it's going to be. No, that's when people are teaching. Right. Have you ever thought of making your phone calls after 3 o' clock in that golden hour where teachers there between 3 and 4:30? Oh no, we haven't tried that. So they put that control in place, looked at when their customers were there and shock, horror, uh, acceptance rates went up. Conversation rates went up and sales went up. So it's making sure that your day matches what your customers want and you're doing those bits. Your week again is doing exactly when you need to, doing the processes you need to have in place when your customers or your ideal clients are available. So again you might go network in one day if that's part of it. Yeah. When's the best day network do that consistently? Keep going back phone calls, emails. So you've got your day, your week, your month. And I always say if you fix the week, yeah you fix the problem. So week next one will be your CRM system. Make sure that that CRM works for you, understanding your customers. Make automations work for you because again Chris, you've just said there we put off right what we don't like. Well if we have automations in place and reminders it makes us accountable. Yeah. And when we do it we get the dopamine hit. Right. Because we take off the to do list. So use that as your controls with your CRM. Um and then make sure that you have your follow up process correct at the back of that. So what do you do after a discovery call? Yeah what is your next bit after um, a proposal meeting after you get the contract signed. Make sure you have those controls in place. Most importantly the final control piece I would say on that is if somebody says to you I'm not ready today to buy. I can't tell you how many people I'm speaking to lately who think that's a dead lead. You know, somebody goes oh I'm tied in, I'm done for six months and they go oh well that's it, it's done. Absolutely not. Yeah. That is not a dead lead until they swear at you and tell you to go away and never come back again. Yeah even then I know you two will probably keep going but you might not want to keep going in that instance.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Is make sure that you bookmark that and you put some controls in place to keep in touch with that client because when they do need you or when the time is right, you get back in touch then you'll be ready to move that sale through quicker. So that's what I talk about there Chris, in this instance, having those controls in place that mirror your business and that you've got the clarity on. I love all that.

Speaker C: I think for me the process is tied in. Go away, don't call me again. Letter from the TPS injunction and then I'll usually make one last call before just to check they haven't changed the mind. Scott, a lot of this stuff, I know from knowing you quite well that this has come from, um, previous experience. And the question that we wanted to ask you next is can you walk us through a deal where you got it wrong at first, what you learned from it and how this maybe changed what you do. So I'm guessing a lot of the process stuff that you're doing will probably reflect these problems that you've seen in businesses. So by all means, share one of them for our listeners if you want.

Speaker A: Yeah, so that was what the, what the deal was, where it fell down and how I've improved. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you come to this. Yeah, um, that's a really good question. So. Okay, good. Because the reason is there's loads of them. Right. There's loads of things that you've learned from and what you've done. I think one, I'll give you, I'll give you one example of, um, a deal where we learned from it. So it was to sign a six figure deal, um, with a large multi academy trust in the uk. So we had succeeded in getting into an academy because again, at the start of that process we were trying to sell something new into local academy trusts in the last business, right into education and we were trying the trusted method of phone calls, emails and then realized that actually how our customer was buying was through referrals. So the first instance of that deal was spending three months doing the same thing over and over and over again. Right. It will happen, it will happen. We're just being unlucky.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then going, actually, let's look at a different method. And we looked for referral and we got a referral into the trust. The second part was we thought once you're in and you're done, the sale will move really quickly through our process. Because when we were doing smaller deals. Yeah. In the 5, 6, 7,000 deal rather than a six figure deal, funnily enough, it moved through the process quite quickly. Right. Less, um, less need for sign off and all of those type of things. So we assumed again that that would fly through. So I put that in my forecast for the next quarter, thinking it'll close and it's done. Yeah. And obviously when you lose six figures from your quarter, that's a massive hit on your target and goals. So we, once we got into it, we realized there was more red tape. You then had to go through a whole procurement process, which again was a nightmare. We knew it, but we hadn't experienced it. So again, learning that ah, lesson for the next time we walk through the six figure deal and then the final bit because we ended up closing the deal which was fantastic and they worked really well with us is we involved too many different relationship owners at different points which was a killer because you want to keep everybody happy. Right. But you really need to make sure the person who you're in most contact with is the person who signs the check and signs the deal off. At the end of the day we were getting really excited by continuing to speak to the person who was going to implement the product who was buying it off us.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And then getting really frustrated and getting really frustrated that the deal wasn't getting signed off and over the line because we didn't keep the relationship up and the contact with the deal maker. So again as I moved through we learned all that and we implemented that fully now into our sales process for the six figure deal. But that's giving you an example there right. Of you ask for one area. I've given you 3 of what we learned in one sales process and I'm sure that a lot of that will resonate with a lot of people. Take the amount of the deal out. Yeah. But the relationship making sure that you um, speaking to people at the right time and understanding your customers internal process. Yeah. Because if you know how they work you can then forecast and look to close that deal effectively.

Speaker C: It is really interesting that you picked up three or four different things that you learned from that. That was one that you end up getting over the line in the end.

Speaker B: Yeah, it was.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And just to give the example is that was first time we, we were the first company in what we were selling which was um, supply into schools. Yeah. Teachers into schools where they were paying upfront for a, for a service at the start of the term for the whole year. Never been done in the industry before. And we closed that six figure deal. So it was amazing. It was brilliant that we got that through. But again it shows my ego as the, as the leader of. Yeah, that'll happen, it'll go through no problem. We'll get the deal. Rather than saying oh okay, let's reflect and let's make sure we really spend

Speaker C: time and understand there is some really interesting learners in there. But I think for me the most interesting is that you've gone back and looked at one that you got over the line and I think lots of people who are listening won't do that. So they won't look at the one that they got. They'll look at the ones that he never got. And we could try and figure out how the. It never happens. But it's a really good lesson for anyone who's listening. You know, build that relationship with a customer. They get over the line, someone who becomes a client and stuff like that, and have a look at all of the roadblocks with them. And I think it's, I think a lesson that I'll, uh, be honest with you, I think I'm going to take myself. There's a couple that I've done recently which took a bit of messing about, and I don't think I've sat back and reflected on them and had to look at what the reason for that was. And is that thing for those listening on audio and not having video visuals, Scott has got his big fat finger pointing at clarity right now. Um, yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a really good lesson. Um, Scott, when we talk about lessons and stuff, what like belief or rule about sales that you used to swear by have you now completely change your mind on? So I'm sure there'll be loads from your corporate days. I'm sure that smile while you dial and stuff like that, which genuinely. That's not one that you shouldn't believe in, by the way, if anyone's listening.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I got, I mean, I could, I could, I could tell you lords, right. But I suppose the biggest one is the customer's always right. Right. And what I mean by that is when somebody, when I ring a customer up, I try to close a deal and they say, no, we're all right. If I believe the customer's always right, I'll leave that deal alone. Donna. And I go, that's okay, you're good, you're right. Yeah. No, what they're doing is. And what they're doing is they may be right in their map of the world, but if they don't know what their problem is effectively, and we haven't described it to them yet, and we haven't helped them understand the problem at that time, then they're not right because they haven't got the knowledge, they don't know the problem. And as salespeople, and this is me now going back to my real route of being the seller on the phone talking or going out for those meetings, it's about really bringing the problem to life for the customer. Because loads of customers who want your product might not be aware that they need it. And the easiest thing for anybody to say, especially if you're doing outbound um, or, uh, you know, not non relationship selling in the first instance is to just say, no, I'm all right, I'm okay for the minute. We don't have a problem. Yeah. Well, actually, the reason I'm ringing you is I've qualified you in. I know you've got a problem and I know I can help you. So the customer is right on so many things, but in that first instance, I would never. I think that's a big lesson, if anyone can listen to, is do m not believe the customer is right when they say no.

Speaker C: Can I try and get you to dig in a little bit there? Because, um, I'm interested in the bravery behind. Well, no, I've qualified you, so I want to actually have a conversation with you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: What's the qualification that you can do before you've had a conversation with them? Uh, is there any tips or hints on that? And, um, how for someone who's a little bit worried? Well, we've, we've had a few conversations today and said customer says no, customer says, uninterested. Lots of people the pants and put the phone down. So how do we develop something as a seller to not do that?

Speaker A: What.

Speaker C: What would be your tips on not overcoming that objection? Because you can't overcome an objection, but handling it, I guess.

Speaker A: Yeah. So two things. So it's one, if I say icp, you know what that is? Yeah. I'll explain it for people who might not know. So that's your ideal client or your idea customer profile. Right. You have to know the person that you're ringing. Okay. Down to the role that they do. If you ring up a business and you try and get through and you don't know the person you're speaking to or what role they are, your questions and your approach will differ. Right. Because if you're trying to speak to a CEO, they will have a different knowledge or understanding than, um, let's say a VA or a PA who you're speaking to as a gatekeeper. Right. So that's the first bit about really doing the research on who you're ringing and also understanding the reason that you've qualified them. So when I'm talking about qualifying in your, um, clients or your potential clients, loads of people, I might go off a bit here, but I'm going to tell you. So when I speak to lots of salespeople now, I say, who are you selling to? Who's your ideal client? And they go, everybody, Anyone will have what I offer. Yeah, nice one. So if you sell to M, everybody. You sell it to nobody, right? It's the biggest misdemeanor go, yes, you've got bigger opportunity. But you need to understand that all of those people are different and understand what their buying signals will be or what their pain point is. And when you ring up and you understand what their pain point is, you can ask the right questions. Nobody should be ringing up and call dump, um, um, product dumping, right? Because nobody wants to listen to your product dump, right? If you just ring up and go, I'm going to do this, this switch stuff, they're not asked, they might get nice people like you, Leon. So I've heard you when someone calls you and you will listen to them and you will ask them lots and lots of questions, but the majority of us will just say, I'm okay. So again, pattern disrupt. And know what your pattern disrupts are in your qualification. Ask those questions that you know are going to hit a pain point. And if they, if they're not ready there and then, because again, it's a cold call, make sure you have something that you can send that client, a potential client out. After that call explains what you're doing or, uh, like you guys did with me at the start, signpost them to your website or what your solution is to their product. You have to do that. Otherwise you will just get lots of I'm okay. And if you believe the customer is always right, you will say thank you. And then you'll go to your sales leader and you'll go, I've been through 100 leads this week. They're just not interested. And then you go down that whole horrible conversation with your sales lead.

Speaker C: I feel a little bit like, because we always joke about Glengarry Glen Ross or any of them kind of films and stuff like that, but I do feel a little bit like a lot of the actual things that they said in them films were on, you know, the olden days were actually true. It's just that maybe culturally we've gone through a bit of a journey where maybe we've got a load of snowflakes and they don't like it on given to them on the chin and stuff like that. But buyers are liars is something that I would have been told. Buyers are liars. Buyers are liars. And I remember maybe 10 years ago, everyone going, oh God, we can't say stuff like that. We can't say liars. But maybe buyers are liars. Is, is the truth in that? Uh, they will lie about whether they really need something. They'll lie about whether it's something that they've got. They lie about how quickly they can get something. Maybe we need to get back to some more 80s sales stuff. What do you think, Scott?

Speaker A: No, sorry, I was getting right into the mode then. Sorry. So I think I, uh, wouldn't say buyers are liars, right. Because again, I. It's about awareness. So I remember I talked to you guys about the emotional intelligence stuff, right. Self awareness or awareness of what you're doing. So if you were adamant you know the truth about something or you don't know it, you're not gonna. You're not gonna lie intentionally, say that you don't need it. And I think a lot of it comes from awareness. Right. So again, it's not around thinking that they are liars. What it's about is in us as salespeople. Have to work hard, huh? Right. So you look at Glenn Gary getting Glen Ross, right? You've got all the different characters, the old boy, you've got the young guy who's. Who's ready for it. You've got the seasoned guy. And then you've got the whipping boy, right. Who just gets absolutely rinsed all the time. And I could. I'm not going to go into the full monologue, but you know that, you know, the, uh, you know, the film. But what, what we have to be now as sales people is more researched. Yeah. More prepared than ever before because information's at the fingertips. Right. So Glengarry, again, Ross is a great one. Right. And Boiler Room. Right. We're not going back to those because people were lying in that. Right. To get people over the line, we're saying we know everything about our product and everything that we know about our customers so we can ask the right questions. Yeah. And, um, make sure that people become aware of the problem rather than say that they're lying, because I don't think they are. I just think they're not aware of that problem at that time. Or if we're not speaking to the right person in that business, they might not have a clue. And what they'll think is, I'm not going to pass them through to my boss because he's just sick of taking calls all the time or whatever that is. So I'll just say no, they're not necessarily lying. I mean, Chris, you'll know more about that on the cold calls, right? When you get that gatekeeper, you've got to really now be a lot more researched, haven't you? To be able to understand and to get that intro in or that second call.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean we could unpack this so much, couldn't we? There's where does the research go here? I mean for me in the worlds that I live in, it's intent data. Uh, so now you know, we want to be not even talking to gatekeepers who are mobile numbers. We only want to be speaking to people that we're fairly pre qualified have probably got the problem that we solve. We're never going to be 100% on point. But with AI and all this stuff out there now, content, uh, enriched data, uh, as it is is got to be your first point of call. This clarity, your number one clarity, clarity on who you're reaching out with. So you're not spending half your day chatting to voicemails, gatekeepers, business centers, this and that. And when it comes to the buy the buyers, the liars thing, and I love all this old, you know, the 80s style singing ring, smiling down. Buyers are liars. If you don't close them, they're closing you raw. This macho kind of. Maybe we've over course corrected. Maybe we have, yeah. Um, a lot of this comes down to your messaging, doesn't it? So if that, if they say no, we don't have that problem and you know, they do. What they may be saying is we've not understood m your message incorrectly. Um, it's not simplified enough, you've not made it expressive enough. Um, maybe you've just called them at

Speaker A: the wrong time like the school's earlier on. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah, like if you phone me right now and by the way you don't, I'll all sales people out there. Yeah. I get so many DMS and for the last 12 months I've put my mobile number on my profile of my LinkedIn account and nobody's bloody phoned me. Um, they've sent me five DMS going this is the last time I'm going to reach out flipping phone me up.

Speaker A: You.

Speaker B: Um, we've over course corrected. We don't want to phone them up. We don't want to. Oh, they didn't answer that time so they're going to go to the bottom of the pile or they said no, so I'm never going to phone them again. No, I mean real older school attitude. If you go back to your sales um, Bible guys, what's his name thingy. Uh, Jeffrey. Ah, Jeffrey Gitter and that. Uh, it takes sales balls to make sales calls. You know, like we maybe need to update the language of it but the, the characteristics behind it are you Know, this is a tough world now. It's going to take tough sales people, isn't it? Um, this is me just letting my soapbox out the door that I'm going to get off now. There we go. Uh, yeah.

Speaker A: Fundamentals are the fundamentals. Right. And you are, you are right. And this is what I talk around is I, I don't necessarily in my business work with coaching of the actual sales call. I really look at the foundations to get the process right for sales leaders and business owners. Uh, but I talk about that all of the time. It's around saying, you know, when you're hiring people or you're bringing salespeople in, resilience is getting less and less and less. Right. Just out there. It just is. You know, let's not beat around the bush. Resilience is getting. And sales. And the reason people hate sales is cause it takes resilience and it's not quick. Yeah. Everybody wants everything so fast right now. And um. And you know, and going back to your other point, Leanne, about looking at the deals that you have gone through, the reason I always do that is because you want to shorten that sales process as much as possible, right? You want, you want to close a deal as quick as possible. So look at the ones you've lost to make sure that you can overcome objectives, um, objections. Look at the ones you've won because you want to speed it up and, and that's. And. But if you don't have the resilience and when you're hiring people, they don't have resilience, it's really difficult. So just to round that circle off, Chris, I think we're all on the same page of, you know, we don't all necessarily want to return to the 80s for, for everything else that it was bad hairdos, bad clothes and all that, uh, and bad football in my case, ah, in, in, in Middlesbrough. Not, not, not in your case, for Liverpool fans. But the fundamentals, whether it be 1985 or 1986 or 2026 are still the same. Yeah. People by people. We just need to make sure that we are more, um, more researched due to the tools that we've got available. Because when we all started, I got a phone, but my first ever sales job. I think I told you this on the last one. There's your phone book. Go and sell Windows. Bring every one of those customers in there. Do you know what I mean? Now we now have the intelligent data that you talk about, Chris, that'll cut that phone book down to to one chapter rather than ringing the full form book. But yeah, let's make sure that we keep the fundamentals, be resilient and make sure that we know who we're ring and when we're ringing and why we're ringing and the value we add. And if you do that, you'll find success more than you don't.

Speaker C: Yeah, I don't want to go down any more 80s films, but I am 100% watching Boiler Room and Glenn Gallagher and Ross before the end of the week. Uh, I forgot the Vin Diesel was in Boiler Room. That's how long it is since I've watched that because I'm not a big fan of Vin Diesel, if I'm honest.

Speaker B: Would you class Wall street as a sales movie? It's one of my favorite movies of all time. No, not the second one. The, the second one's quite good as well. But the original 80s one.

Speaker C: Gordon Gecko.

Speaker B: Gordon Gecko, yeah. Lunches for Wimps. Would you put that in with Boiler Room and everything else?

Speaker C: Well, tell you what I'll do. I will watch it this week with the other two and then I will come back to you and let you know.

Speaker A: I, I reckon that you can put certain fundamentals in Kanye because if you, if you think about what it there is, was Cash's King, isn't it the deal at all costs. Yeah. Doesn't matter who gets hurt at the end of it. I've got the deal. I've got that. You know, and then, you know, and then you bring it to the 90s and you add that with the banks miss selling PPI. Right. It's the same fundamental processes. Forget about your customer. We haven't got that. But I do think you are right in, in regards of sales because Wolf of Wall. Sorry, um, Wall street is absolutely in teaching. Um, Charlie Shane, isn't it? You know how to, how to get one over and make the best out of the money. Yeah. In fact, I'm gonna have to watch that now again. The second one wasn't as good. The first one's class.

Speaker B: Well, we've got three different types of podcast in the sales dojo now. We've got book reviews, interviews. And this week in sales, I think we need to add, uh, film review. Film review 26 with Leon McCowan in there will be absolutely brilliant. Yeah, but only sales based films.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Because I was thinking of the other Michael Douglas film where he loses his head in the traffic and that's probably more indicting of uh, Falling Down. That's Definitely not a sales. But it's what you feel like in sales Most times when you drive home

Speaker A: like let me tell you, that was me in 2007. Yeah. When I full on breakdown. That was me. Yeah. Yeah. Flying around Mackies and Bootle. Kicking off now.

Speaker C: I knew it was you. I knew recognize your face. Scott, before we let you go, um, we want you to set a practical challenge for our listeners. Something they can do in the next seven days that will help improve their sales results. What would it be and how should they do it?

Speaker A: Chris, set me up perfectly. Right. Fix the week. Yeah. Really look now over the next seven days that you're working. Yeah. Of really look at blocking your timing of when you're prospecting. Yeah. When you're reviewing your sales, when you're doing your follow ups. Yeah. And then make sure whenever you do all of those, you leave time in after to use your CRM and to write in what you've learned from those blocks, what happened and where that is. Because that data, uh, in two, three months time is going to be invaluable to you to bring back everything that we've talked around. Yeah. Understanding your customers. So yeah this week fix your week. Really block out your time of when you're doing it and prep. So again a uh, final bit Leon, just on this, if anybody here networks because that's part of their sales process, which it is relationship building, make sure that you do you block some time in to research what you want from that networking event, who you want to speak to and what your follow up is. Yeah. Whether that be a one to one meeting, whether that be um, an introduction from somebody. Don't just turn up to network and think you're going to make friends because that's lovely. But you really need to make sure that if it's part of your sales process and your outreach that you have a plan. So time in before your network and time in after and then really set that prospect and follow up and, and closing deals in your week.

Speaker C: I love that. Yeah. Don't be going to networking events to find friends either.

Speaker A: Ah.

Speaker C: Because they're not your friends as soon as you can't help them with their business. I'll tell you that for nothing. Scott, before we let you go, where can people find your share website, Social Security number, PIN numbers off cash card, all of that kind of stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So give your phone number out so people can phone you. Go on.

Speaker B: I dare you.

Speaker A: 078-784-61052 There you go. You can ring me if you want you can find me on only if. No, I'm not on. Only fans. I was bad off that last week, so. But. But no graph, no glory. So just to give you an overview, I. I really work with sales leads and business owners in a consultancy mentoring way. Okay. And as you can see here, I have the methodology, which is NG3, which is clarity, control and consistency. So if anybody is, uh, wanting to, uh, and like what I've said, go to my website, nographnorglory.co.uk There is a section on the top called Scorecard. There is an interactive scorecard that you can, you can answer about your sales process. At the end of that, it will give you a result and it will tell you which area you're lacking in clarity, control and consistency. And give you a little overview. And then press the button underneath, it says book us, Book a clarity call with Scott McClellan, me and you. And then have a lovely half an hour chat and see if I can help you. So, nographnography.co.uk do the scorecard. No graph, no glory on YouTube. New podcast launching this month with an amazing first guest. Isn't that right, Leon? And then, uh, LinkedIn, Scott McClellan, no graph, no glory. There you go.

Speaker C: Yeah. So Scott S, C, O, double T. And McClellan is M, C, L, E, L, L, A, N. If you're searching for Scott, thanks for having. Thanks for having us, Scott. We really appreciate your time and we'll no doubt see it again very soon. Um, if you want to find out some more About Chris and Six Door, it's 68store.com Chris and I are always moaning on LinkedIn posts as well, so you can definitely find them on there. If you want to find out some more about Eric. Has Eric got a handle on, uh, social media Chris or what?

Speaker B: Yeah, if you want to follow Eric, who has recently joined this conversation quietly in the background, uh, you need to go to Instagram and look for Eric Kardashian. I'm not even lying. Yeah, he's got quite a few followers on there.

Speaker C: Good stuff, good stuff. Go and follow Eric Kardashians. Take care.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for listening to the

Speaker A: sales dojo podcast with Leon and Chris online@thesalesdojo.com and 6th the door.com. if you like today's episode, please review and subscribe and we'll catch you next time on the sales dojo podcast.