Bridging Research and Practice: Advancing Equity in Student-Athlete Success (Part 3)

Host: Welcome back to the RPP Exchange. We talk about research and practice and education. We're here with Brady Rourke of the Gossett center for Academic and Educational Excellence here at the University of Maryland.

Vaughn: And in this segment I want to look ahead and talk about the future of RPPs in higher education. And the theme for this segment, uh, I want to focus on innovation and sustainability. And we touched on this in previous segments. But Brady, as research, practice, partnerships evolve, what do you think is next for this model in higher education, especially when we think about athletics and student development?

Brady Rourke: Yeah, you know, I liked what you said in a previous question, Vaughn, where in speaking about qualitative research, that the participant is the expert. And I think that's how you phrased it. And what I see specific to student athletes is the experience that they have, the, the, the money that's being generated, the interest in college football and college basketball specifically, um, that these practitioners, that these scholar athletes who don't the uniforms at our institutions and, and really rally the fan base around this opportunity, that they, that they really become the, the practitioner experts that inform the future of college athletics. And many institutions have stood up sport management programs where often live in like a kinesiology or a college of business kind of a business management curriculum. But what about a standalone major or curriculum on the athletic experience of these young people? And I know that at Maryland there's a major that you can design your own major, that you work with several folks across the campus and kind of put your own curriculum together and you do, um, some presentations on what it will lead to and how it makes sense. But in 10 years, don't be surprised if the athletic, the athletic involvement of a young person at an institution, especially at the caliber of the D1 level, if you're going to earn academic credit for simply being an athlete at that school and you're going to leave with a resume that, that is comparable to a resume that you would see for somebody that would graduate from a more traditional curriculum. Um, and I often look at these special population student groups that are institutions. And here at Maryland we know that there's musicians, there's performance, there's dance, there's other special students with these unique talents, figure skating, who come to these institutions to learn critical thinking skills, to learn persistence and resilience and These attributes, these 21st century soft skills, emotional intelligence that you can learn on the football field, but also learn in a dance studio, in a choral, um, you know, rehearsal, if you will. And I really think that that's the next phase of These of these partnerships, man, that these student athletes are going to be practitioner researchers going through this, and we're going to want to study what that looks like and what that means. You know, I don't know the exact stat, uh, I don't have it in front of me, Vaughn. But there is, there is research out there to suggest that a high percentage of female CEOs in this country are former D1 student athletes. So there's something to say for the experience, and that's something that I see in the future is that we will be awarding majors, uh, we will be awarding degrees in athletics.

Vaughn: You know, just even the idea of that is amazing.

Host: And you know, I really like what

Vaughn: you were, um, you hit on some

Host: really key points there. As we look into the future and we think about statistics, you know, I'm really a qualitative guy, um, but sometimes I play with the numbers. And there was a stat that really stuck out to me and it said that. I think it was 1.9% of Division 1 athletes will go professional in their sport, but over 60% will pursue futures in education. So when you talk about, uh, uh, you know, in the future there being a pathway where you could get a higher level degree in, in, uh, athletics or maybe in athletic leadership or in mentorship, um, or in qualitative research as it applies to athletics, I think that is the outside of the box thinking, um, that your former mentor described you as having. Um, and I think that is what is going to be a part of this transformative change. Like you said, education is changing. And if we're not changing with education, then we're staying the same. And if we're staying the same, then we're declining. So I think to your point, we have to be very forward thinking, um, and we have to be creative about what the next step and what the future looks like. And I think practice that is informed by research, whether it be the hard numbers or whether it be the lived experiences through qualitative data, is going to be the most important thing. It's going to serve as a roadmap, uh, as we lead into the future.

Brady Rourke: You know, I think that we should interview student athletes and ask them specifically about who has been the most influential person at the institution, maybe throughout your first year, second year, third year. And that would be interesting information to have, is who are the most influential faculty and staff on the campus and why, and who are the most influential coaches and assistant coaches and academic support staff or athletic trainers and why? And what did those folks study? What are the Character attributes. What are the milestone moments in their journeys, both educationally or athletically, that have led them to the positions that they're in, that now they're mentoring and giving back to these young people coming through after them. And so I could envision a poster throughout campus that lists the names of the researchers, practitioners, faculty, coaches that the young that the students are saying have been the most influential in their experience. Uh, but, yeah, really just thinking outside the box on some things that could continue to strengthen the partnerships between the athletic and the academic enterprise here at the university.

Vaughn: I like how you put that with a saying that the athletes are in the driver's seat. And I think that goes back to a common theme that we spoke about, uh, throughout the previous segments of this episode. We're really centering the student experiences and the experiences of those that we are researching when we're speaking to student athletes, really understanding what their experience is. I had a great conversation, uh, yesterday in the Gossett center, uh, with one of our wide receivers. Um, he was just speaking to his athletic experience and also his academic experience. You know, some of the pros, some of the cons, uh, some of the struggles. And that is what I think that we need to really hone in on and really, really empower, allow the students to tell us what their experiences are so that we can guide the research and, um, make change that they're actually going to feel. Now with this next question, I want us to take a critical lens and ask how can institutions like the University of Maryland and some of the other institutions that we partner and work with better support the ongoing dialogue between researchers and practitioners? I think the University of Maryland is doing a great job really reaching out to the community and trying to give researchers, uh, boots on the ground in the community to try to make some change. But what advice do you think, Brady, we should give as researchers to the institutions, how they can continue, um, to grow these partnerships or maybe make these

Host: partnerships, ah, work better.

Brady Rourke: Right on, man. And continue to explore this, this relationship between sports and data and analyzing the athletic performance through a qualitative and quantitative lens and really, really sport data as a storytelling tool. A lot of the audience and the fans, they just know what they see on Saturday. But as you described, there's a lot of, there's a lot going on from a data analysis, data driven decision making through sport that happens in the Gossett center day in and day out. And I just think we need to tell that story better. And, uh, you're really doing it here. This is A great platform to be able to do it.

Host: I agree.

Vaughn: Um, so now that was some advice to the institutions and to the universities. What advice would you give to emerging scholars or practitioners who want to engage in research that truly impacts student outcomes and most specifically student athletes?

Brady Rourke: I think there should be ongoing dialogue about athletics as an educational opportunity. And too often in college athletics, I believe that we've viewed athletics as a hobby or something that we did that sat outside the educational enterprise. But it really should be and is, in my view, an educational experience. I believe that coaches could become tenured faculty, be doing a lot more in the aspect of leadership, help and collect data about retention, um, why athletes choose certain colleges to attend. The landscape is evolving at a rapid pace right now. There's so many things we could study as it relates to the transfer portal, uh, why athletes are choosing to, uh, move around so much. Really, the educational opportunities have become more a la carte. Let me go to Maryland, take a few classes here, transfer and have a different experience at a different school, take a few classes there. So the educational experiences of our athletes are really changing overnight. But we need to look at athletics as more of an educational opportunity. And I believe that athletes should receive academic credit for participation in their sport. And if we looked at it that way, that would strengthen the relationship between the academy and the athletics department. And I think it would bring more researchers and practitioners together to study the experiences that our athletes are having. And, uh, that would really get a peek over the fence at just how much goes into the sport aspect and what our athletes are truly learning. As a part of these teams, I really would suggest networking with Gossett Student Athlete center or like, and similar support units that exist across the country. I've been part of a phenomenal association called N4A, which stands for the national association of Athletic and Academic Student Athlete Development Professionals. This is a group of individuals across the country doing the heavy lifting of the work that we're talking about. Boots on the ground, helping student athletes understand what the experience can mean, how transformative it is to their life after sport. And I would, as a practitioner, a researcher who is interested in the college athletic space and the student athlete experience, try to get in with Gossett Student Athlete center type units so that they can really, really get a feel for what the culture and climate is and what exactly the student athletes are experiencing, so that they can do some narrative inquiry and begin to understand some of the qualitative research methods that could be utilized and leveraged to really put some great research out there and publications so that they would help the public understand just what these athletes are involved with. So, you know, I've been doing this 25 years now and um, I'm always open to somebody who wants to come in and understand kind of what we're, we're working with day in and day out and just how, how impactful and transformative these spaces can be.

Vaughn: I know you said you've been doing this, uh, for 25 years, Brady, and I know that you've been involved in academics and uh, athletics for much longer than that as, and that leads into my next question.

Host: When you reflect on your journey as

Vaughn: a practitioner, as an athlete, as in scholar, as a leader, now as a director and a researcher, what has been the most meaningful lesson about bridging research and practice for you?

Brady Rourke: Understanding what the problems and issues are and then being able to build and scale systems that would potentially address that. And as a practitioner that's really been my calling, is to be part of a culture, to understand what the challenges, what the roadblocks might be that inhibit the experience of student athletes and then how might I position myself to be able to have a positive outcome as it relates to making things better, making the systems more productive and efficient. And I think that we need more people who are looking at this through a critical lens and providing and producing data about the student athlete experience that then in turn can help us make data driven decisions in the future so that we put ourselves, continue to position ourselves in good positions five and 10 years down the road. And uh, athletics isn't going anywhere. It's going to continue to drive a lot of the things that we do across institutions. As I've mentioned before, often referred to as the front porch of the university, we get a lot of public, uh, eyes on us, a lot of press, a lot of good press and I think we can continue to make it better by making data driven decisions. So again, I just think I'm excited about what the possibilities are in partnership with the College of Education and people like yourself, Bon, uh, that are working on terminal degrees, that are interested in having a positive influence on these student athletes. And so we need to stick together and continue this partnership with the College of Education, their faculty and researchers, and bridge this gap between the athletics department and I'm confident we're going to be able to continue to do it.

Vaughn: Um, I know that we've had made some plans on some presentations, uh, some workshops, uh, to really, as you were saying, to bridge that gap between athletics, um, academics, the College of Education and the overall community here at the university, but a larger scale, maybe getting this research out because you know, there's collegiate athletics all over the country and you know, we're at one of the biggest ones as a D1 university. Um, but there are multiple, there's a, this, a plethora of student athletes all over the country who have valid experiences and um, who we could collect data from to really change the experiences in this landscape of what athletics and academics looks like.

Host: So

Vaughn: I was just going to say, just for some closing, uh, some closing

Host: reflections and some closing points, um, how

Vaughn: do you hope your work will continue to shape the student athlete experience and the broader conversations about educational equity?

Brady Rourke: Well, I don't know that this answers the question directly, but I'll tell you what's been on my heart is I had phenomenal teachers and coaches in high school and it really shaped the direction of my life and what I was interested in doing. And my passion project for the next 10 years, man, is to get more Division 1 student athletes in the classrooms in K12 education as teachers and coaches. And uh, my, I grew up in a family of educators. I had such a positive impact and I see amazing student athletes here who I would love to get in the classroom to influence and mentor and teach our young people that are coming up through. So I'm going to work as hard as I can over the next, over the next three to five years to develop systems that would allow student athletes and just really, really try to motivate and inspire student athletes toward education majors. I want to get more student athletes in the College of Education because I know they're excellent people and role models who can go into these schools, man, and make a difference in the lives of these K through 12, uh, students. So I hope that that's my legacy. I hope I'm able to in some small way address some of the teacher shortage things and uh, man, get some great coaches out into the school systems who have had a phenomenal experience here at Maryland with national championship level coaches. So I'm going to go hard at it and uh, I'm going to be full court man to man press on this to use a good sports analogy. And I'm excited to continue to work on this stuff with you man, because I know you're passionate about it too, but just really appreciate you having me on and uh, the interest that you've taken in my thoughts around these issues and I can't wait to continue the

Vaughn: work of that um, analogy, uh, a man to man and a full court press and really working on this together, I, uh, think that we can make a lot of change when we're talking about using the numbers, using the quantitative data, but then also looking into the student athlete experiences, um, using the qualitative data and really creating change, um, that can have, that can change the futures for student athletes and maybe even the future for how we go about m higher education. Um, so thank you so much, Brady, for taking out the time. I, uh, think it was really a transformative episode, uh, to the listeners out there. I, uh, would like for you to go back and listen to both part one, part two, and if you're interested in the Gossett center and some of the great work that Brady Roark is doing, they're not only pushing the student athletes forward on the field and in their respective sports, but most importantly, in the classroom. Thank you so much, Brady. Looking forward to working with you as we continue to make more equitable opportunities.

Brady Rourke: My pleasure. Truly enjoyed it. Have a great one.

Speaker D: Brought to you by the Racial and Social Justice Collaborative and the center for Educational Innovation and Improvement at the University

Vaughn: of Maryland, College Park. If you know someone who might be

Speaker D: interested in creating more equitable learning environments and experience through research practice partnerships, please consider sharing this podcast. I'm your host, VIP Vaughn Parham. Until next time. Take care,

Brady Rourke: Sam.