Process Optimization for Navigating the Revenue Engine with Aviv Bergman, CEO and Co-Founder at Gluework

Speaker A: Welcome to the Revenue Engine Podcast. I'm your host, Rosalind Santa Elena and I am thrilled to bring you the most inspirational stories from revenue generators, innovators and disruptors, revenue leaders in sales, in marketing, and of course, in operations. Together, we will unpack everything that optimizes and powers the Revenue Engine Growth Farm production. Are you ready? Let's go. Get to it. Having a seamless, comprehensive, end to end revenue process enables your business to have the right visibility to navigate your business towards its targets and goals. But many still cringe when they hear the word process. In this episode of the Revenue Engine Podcast, Aviv Bergman, the CEO and co founder at Glue Work, shares why process is important and how to best leverage process optimization to to navigate the revenue engine. So please take a listen to this longtime operations leader turned founder and learn how you can make improvements across your end to end customer journey. So excited to be here today with Aviv Bergman, the co founder and CEO of Gluework. Glue Work is on a mission to help companies improve bottom line results more efficiently with less resources. So welcome Aviv and thank you for joining me. I am excited to learn more about what you're building and really learn from.

Speaker B: Hi Rosalind. Thank you so much for having me. My pleasure.

Speaker A: Well, I always like to start with Career Journey and kind of that backstory. So let's talk a little bit about that. Prior to Glue Work, I mean you've held a number of different operations roles in business operations and revenue operations at many companies such as Diagnostic, Robotics, Any vision and tailor brands. So maybe can you share more about your career journey and then maybe some of those achievements? Poison. Prior to founding Glue Work, sure.

Speaker B: Um, so as you said, I'm a full blown operations guy. But a little bit before starting, um, this career path, I was actually in the Israeli navy. So I'm an Israeli guy and I served eight years in the Israeli navy. So I actually started my professional or business career a bit later, I would say around the age of 26. Um, and I stepped into the world of operations, coming from consulting, a short episode in consulting and business consulting. So for me operations was always about, you know, there are a few shortcuts that I like to use. Like, uh, somebody named me in the past director, uh, of gsd, which is get shit done. Um, but basically it means being the ops guy means, um, the problem solver, the firefighter, name it. Um, and for me it was always around building new projects, building new processes and keeping it very, very, um, versatile. Right. So I can't say that I focus on one domain for Long enough. But being in ops for me was to be the company's main generalist. Right. The guy that gets all the interesting projects that nobody else want to touch. So in terms of achievements, it very much depends on the company. I had the privilege of working in amazing and exciting companies, startups in Israel. So for some it was, you know, building the go to market from the ground up. For the other, it was, um, changing the business model from, you know, B2C to B2B. So many, many achievements, all of them on the business operations side.

Speaker A: Got it. That's great. Yeah. And it'll be interesting to kind of dive into that more kind of based on your lessons learned and sort of the things that you've seen. Because I think, you know, a lot of times when I talk to founders on the podcast, you know, they tell me, you know, an idea for a business, it really starts with, um, you know, solving a problem or maybe it's just tackling some challenge that they've been faced with, or maybe there's some inspirational sort of aha moment. But I mean, like, was this the case for glue work? Like, what led you to starting the company?

Speaker B: Yeah, so it was absolutely the case for me as well. As I said, you know, I developed with the years, a big, I want to say obsession, um, so the word, I don't know if it's obsession or passion, but for processes, um, and I use, I used to always ask, like, what's the process? So if there was a problem, and there are always problems, as I said, it's also problem solving. Um, I always ask, yeah, but what about the process? Um, what was the process? How we used to do it before? And even the, you know, the insights and the learnings that we had from those sessions were how do we change the process? Where do we need to change the process? And the thing that, you know, for me, the aha moment, um, it's actually a funny one that relevant to, you know, to specific to the world of revenue. We were sitting in, um, I think it was a weekly sales meeting with all the team and we were looking on the metrics and the dashboard, uh, that I knew very well. And we've seen that one of the conversion rates, um, in the top of the funnel has been improved significantly from the last month. And I remember how happy everybody was, you know, where everybody's clapping their hand and saying, great progress. All we change it. And I was the only one in the room that is not smiling. And I'm asking, do we know why this thing has been Changed because if we don't know why, it means nothing. We will not be able to maintain it month over month. And I remember the number was something like 20% conversion. So I also added like the negative one. And I hate to be like, you know, the bad guy, but I said, I know everybody's happy, but we're still losing 80% of the business. And you know, everybody looked at me as the party pooper, right? And I, and I honestly, I went on a mission to understand what we did differently that led us for dis improvement this month. And when I started to dive into the details, I saw magic. It was like, you know, reading an ancient spell book suddenly, you understand? But I was seeing that we had so many opportunities to be proactive and to gain much more than this improvement, but we were not aware and we were not following the process. So for me, the aha moment was seeing that we could have done better and to prove that following the process properly, the one I've built, the one I'm proud at, is actually working and helping us to succeed. And now the mission is how can we change the behavior in the company and make everybody follow this process. So this was for me, the moment that I said, how can I make this from a reactive approach of reactive learning to a proactive daily habit?

Speaker A: Yeah. Ah, I love that. I love that. I think, you know, it's funny because I do the same thing a lot of times. Well, what's the process, you know, what's the current process? How are things supposed to be figured out? But I love the fact that you sort of dive deeper into, you know, why, why it's working. But then also the, you know, how do we continue to improve it and how do we leverage it, you know, because I do think that, you know, companies are, you know, really realizing, right, that having that seamless, comprehensive, sort of end to end revenue process is a must have, right? You have to have it in order to have the right visibility into exactly that kind of what's working and what's not. But it's super complicated, right? And even I think you and I both know, like when we talk about process, sometimes people get scared when they hear that word because they think it's this huge, mammoth sort of beast and giant to go tackle. Right? But I think from your perspective, tell me, what do you think? Why is process important and why should companies care?

Speaker B: I think first of all, you're so right with the fact that people are just afraid of this. And I think being revops myself and talking with hundreds of RevOps folks in the last few years, um, when you're asking a RevOps person, um, like what's on your plate, they will always say processes. But then if you would dive deeper, you will see this is like kind of a backlog task that nobody likes to touch. Oh, we need to update this process. It's actually a project that we need to tackle sometime soon. Um, and I assume people are, you know, afraid of this because two things. One, it's complicated, it's messy, it involves change. But the second thing is because I want to say that processes are not proven yet to really work right. People don't believe that if they will change the process, they will change the results. And I think this is the mistake. So as for your question, why process is important, the best analogy that I like to use is the navigation. Right. If we have the KPIs, this is our destination, this is where we want to be, but the process is our, I would say the where. Right, or the how we get there. Right. Um, so this is like the navigation system, the process. Yes. You can get to the same endpoint by not following the process, but it will be very hard to replicate. It will be very hard to train other people how to get there. Um, and again, just the looking back is going to be very complicated. So processes are important because you need to know what the way that you're going, like what are the steps you need to take in order to get to this destination. If you're having a proper process culture in the company, you could also learn while you walking. So think about it. You're navigating, it could be in the road, it could be in a forest. And you can go according through the process and if you see you did something wrong, you can fix it. And not following your process is basically free navigation. Let's, uh, just go with our gut feelings. And I think in scale, it just doesn't work. Um, and I can say that I'm also, I can't say that I'm surprised, but I've seen it many times in the last few years that even for early stage companies that are saying, oh, we don't need any process, it's too early for us having a process is the, I want to say the contract between the reps, the people that are executing the process and the KPIs, this is the commitment of the people to deliver the KPIs. Um, and again, we can continue on this, but I think it covers like why companies should care about the process.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, definitely, definitely. I love that navigation sort of analogy. I think it's a good, you know, visual for folks to kind of understand that, you know, maybe, maybe along the same lines, like, what are you seeing companies and, um, maybe especially kind of those go to market teams, like, what are you seeing them do? Right? And then of course, what they're doing wrong. Right. When it comes to process, I think

Speaker B: it's actually very simple. It's right to talk about the process, it's right to work on the process and to have this mentality. And as I said, every Rev ops person that I was talking with in the past few years has mentioned processes as part of their work. I think the biggest mistake is to build a process or to invest in processes and not to maintain them. Because if you're doing this without maintaining them, and maintaining a process means ongoing monitoring, ongoing, uh, optimization, and always asking yourself if the process is working, it's doing tests, it's like being bold and brave with the activities that you're doing. Don't wait to the end of the quarter to say, oh, something was off, let's change it for the next quarter. Um, so I think that the mistake companies are doing is not to prioritize the process as a revenue engine. Talking about the name of the podcast, right? Um, if you would look at the process as a revenue stream. And again, let's take this exercise and ask everybody that is listening, do you think that if the entire team will follow the process and the systems, the tools that are part of the process will work properly? Right? The automations, the connectivity, everything will work. Do you think that if everything will work properly, would you be able to increase the results and get more revenue? And if the answer is yes, you should have process optimization in one of your, uh, um, top priorities. And this is the mistake I think companies are doing, not to focus on the process as a revenue M stream or engine.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. I think, you know, I'm always, you know, telling folks that, you know, systems and tech and, you know, all those fancy tools are really great. Um, but you have to have process, right? You have to have process first. Um, you think about process first, then systems, and then those systems you can leverage to really help you with automation and integration and then also help reduce a lot of that manual work that we spend a lot of time doing. Um, what advice maybe do you have for others on how to properly leverage systems and technology when it comes to process?

Speaker B: I think everybody in general, I would say the best advice, um, that I can give Is get in a room. Everybody, the leadership, the sellers, the admins, even bring other folks from other departments, you know, the technical guys. Um, get in a room, take a whiteboard and write down the process. Um, and the reason I'm giving this exercise, I did it before, many times, is because, first of all, by asking people, by, you know, doing a proper brainstorming about what the process is, you will find that there isn't a single person in the company that think the process is the same, like his friend. Everybody's doing something different, including leadership. By the way, I'm asking CROs and VP sales all the time, do you know what's your process like? What is really the process? What are the SLAs, uh, what should happen? What are the differentiation between the different verticals or segments? No, they don't know. They're just talking about process. They're not bringing it into life. Now, once you're doing this exercise of mapping the entire process, you will see a lot of things. One of the layers would be technology. What tools are we using? And this will start revealing, what tools are you using? What are you using it for? What are the KPIs from this tool? For example, I recently, I was talking with a, um, friend, actually came for advice and they told me they purchased a tool. I will not mention names. Um, but they purchased a tool because the seller managed to convince them that if they will get this tool, they will have additional meeting per day, per rep. Right? They're having three meetings. They now should have four meetings. And the first question that I asked this, um, person was, how long are you running with this tool? And she said, three months and said, great, so how many more meetings do you have per day now? And she said, oh, we didn't really measure it, so why did you buy it? Right? And this is the question, why do you have those tools before you manage to prove what is the pain? So to summarize my advice, sit in a room, use a whiteboard, map the process, put KPIs, put tools, put roles and responsibilities of the people and start to understand what's working well and what's not working well. Um, and obviously adding to this ongoing measurement, measuring it once every quarter in a QBR is. It just cannot help you be proactive, cannot help you save those deals that are falling through the cracks. Everybody's talking about revenue leaks. It doesn't work if you're not measuring this all the time.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I love that. I think that's so important because we do a Lot of those kind of, you know, um, book backs, right? And kind of when things are done, we look at, oh, what was the conversion rate, what was the win rate, right, how much deals did we close and all of that. But that's all sort of after the fact, right? There's nothing, you know, proactive or actionable about that. It's just looking. And then now you're planning for the next quarter and chances are by the time you're even looking at those results, you're a week or two into the next quarter or the next month already.

Speaker B: And it's a question, by the way, that I'm asking all, um, you know, VP sales CROs, you know, sales leadership is, you know, if you had like another day a week or a few hours a day, what you do with this time. And they all say, and I love this answer, um, we would help our sellers to sell M. And so everybody wants their time back so they can sell more. And you're asking them, if you had more time, what would you do to sell more? Oh, I would dive deep into the deals, I would join calls, I would look at the data. I just don't have time for that. And so we all aware that especially for leadership, if they focus on things in real time, they believe they have an impact. They just don't have the visibility or the time to really have an impact. And then it's too late.

Speaker A: So when I think about, um, automation, right, to really reduce that manual work, you know, and kind of feeding on what you were just saying about if somebody had an extra day, right? If leadership had an extra day, they would go and dig deeper, right into the information. Because I think when you have that automation, not only you reduce the manual work, but you also are able to now bubble up those insights and some of that analysis that maybe a person either, to your point, doesn't have time to do, they never get to it, or maybe they just can't even do it because some of those analytics are just way too complex. So if you think about maybe feeding along those same lines as you were speaking about, when you think about revenue leaders, how should they be thinking about using technology, right, to shine a light on those insights that can help them make better decisions and help them coach their sales team and help, you know, uh, at the end of the day have better outcomes?

Speaker B: It's a great question because I think in the last few years there were a few terms that were very buzzy and then kind of went, you know, outdated. One of them is data driven decision making. You know, everybody's using it or used to use it. Yeah, but the question is, are you really taking decisions based on data? It's 2023, you have all the tools and all the technology. Are you really driving decisions based on data or not? Now insights is also one of them. Everybody now is talking about insights. Don't give me raw data, give me insights. I think it's all useless unless you are taking those insights and challenging them with a change. Okay, so you see an insight. Let's go. You know, in the world of like conversational intelligence, very mature world today, um, and you're getting insights. You know what, you're getting insights that your reps are not handling objections properly or that the specific crap is talking too much in the discovery call. What are you doing with this? How do you measure, how do you implement the change? How do you measure the change? So would you say. Again, let's take this very simple example, but we can use it for basically everything. If you got an insight from a tool that your sellers are talking too much in a discovery call and you have a best practice, data driven one that they need to talk 20% and not 50, you change it. Now they're talking 20. Are you really measuring the impact? And if you are measuring the impact and you're seeing that it worked, you need to replicate this kind of mentality across uh, um, the organization and the tools. So a lot of companies are buying tools just for productivity or just to be in the front of technology, but they're not really utilizing those insights. They're not taking those insights and implementing them in the day to day and, and I can't blame them. It's hard. It's changing behavior. It's hard. But I think the power in technology is not just to take the insights that are on the dashboard, but really, you know, drive, drive a change that could be measured on the results.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, I love that. I think, you know, it's funny, I was kind of laughing when you were saying about this. Data driven decisions. And you know, when people talk about that, but they really aren't making change based upon the data per se. Right. And I think it's really about that, you know, next best action. Right. What is the data telling me to go do? And then how am I, you know, implementing that change? But then also to your point, measuring the results and then iterating and constantly improving upon that, that's kind of the power of having that right information at your hands.

Speaker B: Yep, absolutely.

Speaker A: So let's talk a little bit more about Revenue operations. I mean you've spent most of your career, right, in business operations, revenue operations, all different types of roles. And so it's interesting because you definitely not only understand ops, but you've lived and breathed it, right? I think it's a really interesting perspective as the CEO of a company that's really trying to solve, you know, solve real problems around revenue, but really around operations. Because these are a lot of the things that we struggle as operators to do, right? Is get those the right information, get the right processes, constantly iterate on those to, you know, really help enable the team. So maybe what have you seen in the market, um, you know, in terms of trends around revenue operations, especially around this automation and analysis and insights, you know, all the things that we're kind of talking about and maybe how has it evolved and you know, where do you see it going?

Speaker B: I think it's, it's a fascinating question and it's a fascinating topic because you know, uh, I embraced this title Rev Ops few years ago when I saw this thing is becoming interesting and trendy and I said, okay, it's more interesting to just biz ops, right? I love the term Rev Ops and by the way, I still love the term because I think it's one of the only roles in the company that has its own KPIs in the name. Right? And if you're asking, and we're going to get to this in a second, but if you're asking how Rev Ops persons should be measured, it's, it's by the revenue M. Okay, it's very easy to understand. But I think the funny thing that happened is that the term Rev Ops became trendy so fast that every go to market tech, like sales tech company, uh, um, that is selling something, uh, in the space of go to marketer sales are targeting RevOps and now mentioning that this tool is a Rev Ops tool.

Speaker A: That's right.

Speaker B: And it's interesting because we should ask the RevOps folks, what tool recently did you buy for yourself to make your life easier? If we understand that RevOps is important and you need to streamline your work and, and you need to be more efficient and effective what tool you actually buy for yourself. And again you can ask every Rev Ops what is the most recent tool that you bought. They will tell you a CPQ tool or a uh, conversational intelligence or an outreach tool. But it's not something that you're using. It's a different definition being an admin or owning the buying process versus being the user. And it comes Again, to the question of how do you measure RevOps? What are the KPIs that rev ups are being measured upon? And I think the good thing is that RevOps is here to stay. Uh, um, but I think I still, I still think there is a long way to go. Um, so the fact that a lot of companies are targeting RevOps doesn't mean that the rev ops are the main users or will have, um, the budget or the ability to buy. I think within Rev Ops, there's still, and you know this very well, there's still a lot of arguments about the role. Should it be more tactical or strategic? Should they have a seat at the table? Um, who is the next gen of CROs? CROs should come from sales or from revenue ops. There are a lot of arguments about it. And I think this role is still in its early days to be defined. Um, but I definitely think that companies that will look on the rev UPS needs not just use it as a buzzword, but we'll find a way to the heart and to the pains of the Rev Ops folks specifically will manage to find very, uh, good partners and good customers.

Speaker A: Yeah, I love that. You know, I was laughing because, I mean, every, every technology that I look at says, oh, we're solving, you know, the revenue operations problem or we are a tool, you know, platform for revenue operations. And you know, when you kind of dig into that because it's so broad that it's so many different things. But I love the fact that you kind of pointed out the fact that when, as rev ops, we buy technology, but it's really not for our own use. Right. It's for sales reps or it's for marketing, or it's even for customer success. It's something to support the customer and to support driving revenue. But it's not necessarily that we are the prime user.

Speaker B: I would tell you something funny, um, I hope this specific person is not listening to this. Uh, but I used to have a CRO. No, I'm kidding. I love the guy. I used to have a CRO that told me once, uh, a few years ago and he told me, aviv, your goal or your role is to make salespeople life easier. And I was, I was, I was younger. Um, so I had, um, I was brave enough to answer to my boss and to say, I do not agree with you. And he said, yeah, enlighten me. And I said, my goal is not to make salespeople life easier. As rev ops, my goal is to make salespeople life easier so they can Sell more. And if I'm just simplifying their life or their workflows, without the ability to measure the impact of this thing, I'm useless. I'm not here for the fun. I'm not here to save them an hour a day. I'm here to make more revenue to the organization. And this is the important differentiation between different types of rev ops folks.

Speaker A: Yeah, 100%. I mean our job is like everybody else in the revenue team or in the go to market organization. It's to drive more revenue faster, shorten deal cycles and increase win rates and increase more money. Basically it's more revenue to the company. So I love that when we think about some of these trends and all of these changes that are happening, you know, what are some of the, maybe the goals and objectives that you have for glue work? Right. Specifically over the next six to 12 months.

Speaker B: So again, first of all I think I promised myself not to use AI in this uh, in this uh. But no, honestly I would say that um, we're still a very early stage company so we're still working on expanding our offering and I think we probably discussed about it know in another conversation but um, companies are going to the consolidation play and going into more broad tools that can solve for multiple use cases. So I think as for ourself as well, we're focusing on you know the process optimization side of things. But obviously there um, is much more than just monitoring and alerting um, you know, recommendations and best practices and AI into it and really how to create a better culture of processing. Um, but also I would say one of my most interesting objectives is to expand the offering to additional um, um, icps. So uh, for example we're talking recently with a lot of CFOs which is another interesting and fascinating discussion. That CFO suddenly became a very crucial part of the revenue organization even from the buying process. Uh, everybody now meets the cfo but even as a Persona. Um, so you know it's super interesting. We're talking with a lot of CFOs recently and we see how they are starting to be interested in the or. I think they were always interested but maybe they got some pushbacks from like CROs and sales leaders. But uh, now they're really you know, getting their dirty in the business like in what people are doing and what are we spending money on, what are the outcomes. So it's super interesting and this is basically what we're going to focus at in the foreseeing future.

Speaker A: I love that. Uh, that definitely well needed for sure. Definitely something that we all need. You know, as I, you know, as I think about the revenue engine, right. In this podcast, I always, you know, obviously hope others will be able to learn how to accelerate revenue growth. Right. Empower that revenue engine. And, you know, nowadays it's obviously not just about growth, but obviously revenue retention as well. So, you know, maybe from your perspective, you know, what are the couple things, maybe two or three things that you think, you know, all revenue leaders should really be thinking about, like today, right around, you know, how they can have the most significant impact on their ability to achieve those revenue targets.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, um, I will use some, you know, buzzwords, um, so apologies if I'm repetitive. You know, among the other, the, the other interviews that you have. Um, but basically, I think productivity and efficiency, especially of the reps, um, is critical. The main question that we see all across the board is how can we do more with less? Um, which again, it makes sense. This is, this is the time, um, to do more with less. And is it possible? Yes, exactly. We mentioned this before in the beginning of the conversation in if you have 20% conversion between stages, it means you're losing 80% of the business. Um, so we should at least invest some time in trying to understand why, because even getting 1% or 2% back could be massive. You don't need those shiny metrics. When you're going to a vendor's website and they tell you 40% increase in win rates, no platform will get you 40% increase in win rates. It's not going to happen. Um, so doing more with less by focusing on the rep, productivity and efficiency, I think it's critical and obviously I'm biased. But, uh, you already know now that I'm big into processes and basically I'm recommending this thing without sending anyone to use my product. But honestly, think about the process, get into a room, understand what's working well and what's not working well. Those days of like, spray and pray. If this is our metrics, all we need is just to spend more money on marketing, get more leads. It just, it's not going to be the same anymore. Um, and efficiency is here to stay. It's not just a trend. I mean, I do think that this downturn will end and the market will recover and companies will start selling and buying again, but it's not going to be the same because every company, especially in the tech space, are, you know, now would come with this experience of now. Okay, we've seen how bad things could be. Um, so if you're talking about how to achieve the revenue targets. I would say to summarize, focus on the team that you have, try to do more with less, and get to the details through the process.

Speaker A: Yeah, love that. That's great advice. Thank you for sharing that. Sure. Um, maybe along kind of those lines of advice also kind of picking your brain a little bit, you know, almost like two years right into this entrepreneurial journey. Is there anything that you wish maybe you knew earlier or maybe wish you did differently?

Speaker B: Oh, we probably need another episode for this, uh, for, um, lessons. Yeah. I would say it's something that I'm saying to myself, and it's, you know, something that is part of the journey. But I'm also happy to share this with everybody that, you know, share this bug of starting his own thing. Um, and it's really to work from the pain, um, and not from the trend. It doesn't mean that trendy companies and trendy products are not deserved. If it's well executed, they're well deserved. Um, but the. The thing that I wish I was doing first is not to say I'm, um, building a tool for revenue operations, because revenue operation, this is the future. But exactly what is the pain you're trying to solve? And if you're focusing on a pain, on an issue, it will help you validate, it will help you qualify, it will help you understand if. Yeah, people can tell you. And people are always saying, yeah, we have this pain. And then as founders, as entrepreneurs, we tend to, you know, take the dopamine hit from this and say, okay, people said they have the space, so let's go and build a product. But having the pain, it's a different statement than, this pain is top priority, and I'm willing to pay for this pain. And I tried to solve this pain in other ways. So I have a lot of definitions to how to define a pain. We'll not do it today. Um, but definitely the advice is don't go after buzzwords, say we're building another rev ops platform, uh, because there are probably a hundred other folks trying to do the same as you do it. But find a problem that people are really suffering from. Then it's very unique. And this would be a good starting point.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's great advice. Thank you. I love that. Um, you know, as I. As we wrap up, I always ask, you know, my guests two things about them. One is, you know, what is the one thing about you that others might be surprised to learn? And two, what is the one thing that you really Want everyone to know about you.

Speaker B: Hmm, That's a good one.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: although we kept it kind of, um, easygoing the conversation, I sometimes need to. I feel that I need to put a disclaimer that with all the. Started at the Navy, really focusing on processes, um, if you would go to my LinkedIn, you would see the process guy. Uh, people that get to know me very well know that a process guy is not a compliment. It's not something that people like, said, oh, Aviv came the process guys here it was. It wasn't always a compliment, but the truth behind it that I think, uh, um, people would be surprised that I'm actually. I'm actually a very sarcastic and funny guy, and I'm trying to look at very positive things, uh, uh, on things. So I like to find issues, I like to solve problems. Um, sometimes it means showing people that they're not doing their job. Uh, so it could be, you know, the bad guy. Um, but it's not the natural thing for me. I'm very easygoing and funny. This is the one disclaimer that I want to say, and I think we kept it quite easy going. So I think maybe people heard it, uh, in my voice. Um, the second thing is what I want people to know about me. So I think I said in the beginning, I'm an Israeli guy. Um, I know a lot of Israeli guys are, especially in the tech space founders, many of them in the space of, like, revenue operations in the last two years, which is awesome. Many of them are close friends of mine. Um, you know, I think the thing that I, I want to say here, that I'm an Israeli guy. I'm very proud of it. Um, nobody's perfect. No country is perfect. Uh, so we have a lot of issues, but in these days especially, um, but my way to be a good ambassador of Israel is by cooking. I'm very. I'm very big into cooking, especially Israeli food. So I'm take this as an invitation. Every person that, um, hops around New York or Brooklyn, um, and interested, you know, talking about revenue, about processor, or just having a good Israeli food, that's my. That's my guilty pleasure and the way I like to host the most. So, um, uh, please take it as a personal invitation. Everybody that hears us and want to eat a good Israeli food is. It is more than invited.

Speaker A: Ah, awesome. I love that. Well, definitely when I'm out on the East Coast, I'll be making sure that you're also home and not traveling.

Speaker B: Of course you will love it.

Speaker A: Love it. Well, thank you so much for joining me today, Aviva. I love just the conversation. I always enjoy talking to you every time when we have a chance to get together. So thank you so much for just sharing so many great insights and sharing your experience with us. I really do appreciate it and very, very grateful.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. Thanks for having me again. It's a great pleasure. Um, um, and hi to all of our listeners. Thank you again.

Speaker A: Awesome. Thank you.