#164: From scientist to founder: Building Zonova and raising capital with Dr Georgia Fleet

Speaker A: Welcome to the PERS podcast. My name is Jana Hlistova. Uh, I'm the founder of the Purse, where we explore the intersection of women, wealth and capital allocation. Today I'm joined by Dr. Georgia Fleet. Georgia is a scientist turned entrepreneur on a mission to tackle one of healthcare's most persistent challenges, hospital acquired infections. She founded Zinova on International Women's Day in 23 and is CEO and co founder. A materials scientist by training, George has spotted how medical devices drive hospital infections and how few commercial solutions exist to address it. Three years on, the company's Z ROS antimicrobial materials platform is in active commercial discussions with global device manufacturers to make hospital acquired infections a problem of the past. Now, in this podcast interview, we discuss how Georgia transformed a scientific insight into a venture backed company with the potential to reshape infection prevention globally, the realities of fundraising as a female founder in a highly technical sector, the power of building intellectual property, and what it takes to scale breakthrough innovation. We also explore how more women can participate in the startup ecosystem as investors. I hope you enjoyed this podcast interview as much as I did. Please note that this podcast interview is for informational purposes only. We do not provide investment advice. Well, Georgia, welcome to the show. I'm absolutely thrilled that you could join me today.

Speaker B: Thank you so much. Really happy to be here and speak about what we've been up to.

Speaker A: Now I like to get straight into it. So let's start. I'd love for you to tell us about your startups and over. But first of all, healthcare associated infections have been a persistent challenge for decades. What did you see that others were overlooking initially and what gave you the conviction to believe there was still room for a fundamentally different solution?

Speaker B: Great question. So I think there's a few different parts to this. So I first came across hospital acquired infections when I was doing my doctorate research and I just thought like, how ridiculous that we are just accepting that infections happen in hospitals largely because of bacteria growing on medical devices that are in the body. And then you get this twofold thing happening where you can't not use the medical device. But actually the medical device is this perfect pathway into the body because it's either directly accessing the bloodstream or, uh, the lungs. There was still very much a problem. And I think the way that people had tried to tackle this problem just wasn't quite working. I think things for me, one was the economics. The big problem areas are in quite low margin medical devices. So specifically vascular access devices. So that includes IV lines and central lines and Things like that, super high volume but relatively low margin. And the same for endotracheal tubes as well. So the one that kind of sits there attached to the ventilator that helps people breathe and current solutions where people have tried to make the device itself antimicrobial, um, and fight off bacteria, typically a coatings that adds an entirely new step onto the end of the manufacturing line. There are costs that come along with that and it just doesn't, you know, the economics of it just doesn't quite work out. And then I think the other two things top of my mind was that number one, there's a huge focus on wound care. And for me, I was like even looking at the data, the problems typically highlighted are ah, ventilator associated pneumonia associated with ET tubes, bloodstream infections associated with those vascular access devices or central venous catheters specifically and like urinary catheters. So I think there was a big focus on wound care. It's a huge market, I get it. But in terms of actual kind of impact priorities, for me it was like that was a very clear focus. And then the other is just like the efficacy, the long term activity of actually what they're putting on it at the moment completely dominated by like silver coatings. So I'm very glad to say that we are not just another silver coating, completely different technology. But yeah, I think there have been quite a few clinical studies and trials where they've tested these kind of silver coated catheters in one form or another with mixed results, shall we say. So I thought there's definitely still a problem here. There's got to be a way to do this and make it affordable and scalable. And that was really what I focused from the outset of Xenova.

Speaker A: Amazing. Before we get into further detail, was there like an aha moment? You obviously spent a bit of time researching this and was there something that just flicked the switch and you went, hang on a second. And why isn't anyone else thinking about it this way? Or would you say it was an iterative evolution over uh, X number of years and obviously it helped you piece together uh, what is now the solution.

Speaker B: I think in my doctorate I did research antimicrobial materials. But like what I'd made was never going to be commercially viable. Super unstable, it's like running from one lab to the other and also just so expensive it would never work in the real world. And so there was definitely a point where I finished it and I was like, the mission is absolutely still the same, but it's got to be affordable, got to be scalable. Ideally, we can put it directly in the manufacturing process. That was definitely a decision that I made. But then I think that kind of aha moment came probably like a year or so after when we actually figured out something that did work. And it was literally in my spare bedroom. You'd be amazed what you can order on Amazon. You have to be resourceful. So we used a couple of old, like friends and colleagues and cobbled together what we could in terms of being able to make and then test samples. And yeah, we definitely had that moment where someone at the time was, oh, have you tried this? It's like, no, I've not. Let's give it a go. And then we did it and it worked. So that was definitely like that moment. We were great, let's do this a few different times, prove that we can repeat it. And then, yeah, that was the basis for our first patent that we filed for. And then we subsequently raised our, uh, precede off the back of that patent being filed.

Speaker A: Amazing. Isn't that always the way that you start delving into an area that you find interesting? You do research, you having to think through what everyone else has developed and what the problems are, what the issues are, and you're constantly thinking and thinking and then really there's a lot of trial and error until you hit on something that's actually, wow, like, this is the solution.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And I think, if anything, we were quite lucky that it came sooner rather than later. Some people can work on this stuff for a really long time and not get anywhere. So, yeah, hard work and a little bit of luck.

Speaker A: Oh, I love it. It's being able to make connections that probably other people haven't made or not thought about making before. So, yeah, wonderful. Yeah, I love this stuff. So many people might initially assume Xinova is a medical device company, but you've built an antimicrobial materials platform with the potential to sit across multiple health care categories. When did you realize you weren't simply developing a technology, you were building a business with the potential to become infrastructure for infection prevention.

Speaker B: So we actually started off with the business model of we're going to manufacture this, we're going to make it ourselves. We initially started off with the plan of going into animal health first and then doing human health. And then we had a massive pivot, basically. I think towards the end of it was actually middle to end of 2024, finalized at the beginning of 2025. But I would say it was almost like a slow Realization of actually we're not going to be able to get the scale and impact that we want as quickly as we want to do that manufacturing it ourselves. And actually for these devices and all these different areas, there's so much more behind the device itself in terms of the way that it's designed and why customers or end users might want to use that particular device outside of it being antimicrobial. And so I think for us it was about realizing that we're an add on to these devices and actually it's going to work way better if we take the devices that end users already know and love and already trust and already have access to and just have this antimicrobial part of it. And then we can have much wider impact than if we were going to try and do this just on our own. So I think very much a slow realization and then redoing the business model and working about the strategy from that new way of thinking.

Speaker A: And investors have spoken about your founder, uh, Market Fit as one of the reasons they backed Xinova. Uh, looking back, what experiences or insights uniquely prepared you to tackle a challenge at the intersection of healthcare, material science and commercialization? And we've touched on this a little bit, but I wonder if there's anything else you'd like to add to this.

Speaker B: So my co founder actually says that she thinks that I've got a really interesting perspective because I obviously have this material scientist background, so I can speak quite comfortably about the tech. But I also know that I'm absolutely not like a scientist at heart. I think for me I fell into it a little bit, but for me it's always been about the impact. I was almost doing the science and the experiments to get to the end result, to be like, cool, where can we use this? Rather than, if you ask, I would say like, uh, someone that really loves the science of it. They're all about how does this work, why does this happen? Whereas I couldn't care less about the actual science of it and how it works. I'm much more about the end result. So think I have quite an interesting perspective because I think I am quite commercially minded. Don't get me wrong. I've got no official business training.

Speaker A: Well, you do now, Georgia, you do now.

Speaker B: I do now travel by fire. Uh, but yeah, like, I've not been to business school, so like I completely acknowledge that. But I've definitely found my footing as a founder and this is absolutely where I'm supposed to be. But I think the fact that I can span a little Bit of the tech, but also my mind is very much on commercialization and the company. I think typically those two don't crossover. I think a lot of people automatically assume that I would be the CTO or want to be back in the lab, and I'm like, God, no, please do not send me back into the lab. I was so excited to leave the lab. So I think I very much enjoy being a little bit of a jack of all trades. But I think the scientist background has definitely helped from that perspective, so that I have that additional context and can speak to it quite easily.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's very powerful. And just to your point, just because someone's got an MBA or a business degree doesn't necessarily translate. It doesn't necessarily mean they make a great entrepreneur either. So I'm making sure your being put back on that pedestal. Georgia. Thank you. So I think you have a unique set of qualities, characteristics, and I think one of the most important aspects of being a successful entrepreneur, uh, is that resilience, that willingness to keep trying, not giving up when everyone else and everything else around you is going, might not work. Oh, really?

Speaker B: Risky.

Speaker A: You keep going anyway.

Speaker B: I think that's absolutely the biggest thing in this. It's, as you said, just like when everything is looking down and miserable and you want to give up, just pushing ever so slightly past that. I, uh, think that's definitely what kind of separates things out. Because there are so many points in this where you're like, okay, it'd be much easier to just give up now and not see what it looks like on the other side, because it is a huge risk. But, yeah, imagine doing anything else now.

Speaker A: That's amazing. Incredible. Now people see the headline announcing the 2.1 million seed round, but they rarely see what happened behind the scenes. What was the reality of fundraising for a startup like yours? And what were some of the hardest moments along the way, would you say, Georgia, that you're happy to share?

Speaker B: Yeah, it was hard. I'm, um, absolutely not going to sugarcoat it. I think everybody at the moment is having a really tough time fundraising. If you're not, great for you. But I think most other founders that I've spoken to, particularly in the med tech space, it's hard. So I think for us, the total was the 2.1 million, but we'd been raising this, I think, over the span of a year, and I actually spoken to quite a lot of people. People over the last week have been like, oh, yeah, it's definitely taking 12 to 18 months at the moment. And that was out in the US and from my perspective, I thought that it was supposed to be easier raising in the US but it definitely does seem that things are taking a lot longer. So anybody out there that's raising and you're getting towards the year, uh, point, don't worry, it's fine. It seems, because I think that for us, we'd had a lot of, oh, it should only take you six months. So we thought that we were, like, really behind on it or not doing very well. But actually, I think just enough people aren't really admitting how long it's taking. So our journey, we did quite a few closes over the span of that year. I think we were quite keen that whilst we had the interest there, uh, we wanted to utilize any mechanism that we could to just get money in the bank and make sure that we had that secured. So for us, the first portion, we used advanced subscription agreements, People that signed up to those absolutely, like lifesavers, really believing in us a year before everybody else did. And a lot happened in that year. We're incredibly thankful to our angels that onboarded at the point where we did these advanced subscription agreements. So we had an initial kind of first close, if you will, and that was a chunk back in the summer of last year. And then we had, I would say we had quite a few false starts. And so we initially went out trying to raise 1.7. And then towards the end of the year, uh, after we'd raised the ASAs, we then made a decision. We were like, I think I just need to stop fundraising because it takes so much time and energy, so I need to just get to work and get to that next inflection point, get to the next milestone. And so what I'd done is I'd gone back into the financial model and I was like, I think we can get to X using just a million. And so we reformulated the raise to be like, okay, let's get to a million, and then close it. So we did that, and then we did almost like a first kind of equity close, if you will. And that portion was led by Angel Academy. And then at the same time, we were also getting interest from the investors that ultimately came in for the second close as well. But I think for us, we were just quite keen to try and close money as and when we could. So we took the decision to have this rolling close. And so we made the first close. We tried to make the documents as friendly to everybody so that we could reopen the documents and reclose them um, and utilize that rolling close effectively. So, yeah, we had the ASAs. We then had another close led by Angel Academy, and then we had another close that was led by Thena Capital, which was where the bulk of that 2.1 million then came in. So, yeah, it was definitely a lot messier. It wasn't a nice clean. We found the lead and then we found other investors and it all was like happy days. And two months later it was closed. I think the reality is definitely a lot more messy. At least it was for us anyway. But we've absolutely ended up in the right place with the right people and funds backing us. But yeah, we definitely had a few hard moments along the way. I think one was when we had a potential lead and then we had a site visit. I think Carla and I, my co founder and I, after the site visit, just looked at each other and we were like, what was that? It was not a good site visit. And then some other stuff happened and we parted ways, shall we say? And at that point we were like, oh, it feels like you're starting from scratch again. So I think that was definitely a really hard, pivotal moment for us, but it was not the right fit at all. So that was a blessing in disguise, even though we definitely had a little breakdown at the time. I think the other hardest moments are like the closer you get to closing, it's almost when you desperately need to go to the toilet and ah, the closer you get to the toilet, it's like the closer you get, the harder it gets, the more you want to go. I, uh, do think that lineup, the kind of few weeks where you're like really closing the final bits of paperwork, it's just. And then there's another delay and it's.

Speaker A: This is really where you need to look after yourself. Right. And you need to really manage your kind of mental state and all of that good stuff. But it's just want to come back to your earlier point about finding a really good fit with your investors and you know, fairly quickly if it is going to be a good fit or not. And if you go, oh, goodness, what was that? And why did it feel really odd, you know, that your values and your kind of viewpoint is going to be quite different and you really can't imagine having those people in your business investing in your business. So it's so important to uncover that really early on, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think most people have a bit of a gut feel about it and we definitely had that gut feel, but at the same time we were like, you know, money on the table. But, yeah, I think gotta listen to your gut, and I'm so thankful that we did not go in that direction. It just wouldn't have worked. And super important to just listen to what your body is telling you, even if your mind is saying go for the money.

Speaker A: Yeah. And back to your earlier point as well, about the fact that it wasn't just a very clean one fundraiser, 2.1 million, but you broke it down, you chunked it down, and I really like that. It's like sometimes it can feel so impossible, especially if you're raising for the first time. And let's be honest, you know, raising in your field, and it is very specialist and there's so many moving parts. It makes it more manageable to break it down and better to close a smaller amount and know that's done and dusted and then move on to the next bit. But you've got that then as proof to demonstrate to other investors, and you're also building that momentum. So I think that's an incredibly clever approach. Thank you. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I think the advanced subscription agreements, for example, it allowed us to make quite a pivotal hire, which then allowed us to get to that next step as well. And so I think what those earlier parts of funding really released was the ability to get to those milestones a little bit more quickly than we would have if we had waited to close it in one big chunk at the end. So I think, particularly given how long this fundraising rounds are taking at the moment, I think we definitely made the right decision to try and utilize different mechanisms of closing money whilst we had the interest.

Speaker A: Yeah, really smart. Was there a particular moment when you felt investors stopped seeing Xenova as a scientific risk and started seeing it as a scalable commercial opportunity?

Speaker B: I think two points. One was when I started actually using the word platform. I don't know why, in my mind, platform was more like Apple apps or computer stuff. And I just had witted using the word platform for so long, I was like, no, we're like science and technology, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, started using the word platform, people automatically M got it. And I was like, okay, I've just been being really stupid. I don't know why after using this particular word for so long. So I think that was one. Because I think there definitely was a moment where I changed my pitch slightly and I changed the story slightly, and all of a sudden it was clicking. I was like, oh, thank God, we finally got it. And I think there was something about the way that I Changed the wording. The company was still the same, the tech was still the. It was very much about like how it was landing. Finally got that, I would say towards the end of last year. And I think that was when we started getting all of the other traction finally from the bigger uh, funds and these seasons. So I think that was really nice to know that I'd finally hit the nail on the head with like how we were getting that story across. And then I think the other big one was we knew we needed commercial expertise as I just mentioned, and as the company scales, I needed commercial support and expertise and ideally somebody that had done that in a med tech tech licensing way previously. So they had been there and done that. And then we found our cco, uh, Deb leaves, who's amazing. And she had that ticked all the boxes. She'd been there, uh, done it before, she'd exited before in life sciences companies. And so when we bought her on as well, I definitely saw a change in how we were viewed. And we went from scientists by background very much learning to be a CEO, uh, compared to then, okay, this person's been there and done it before. They've got the expertise. I think it's always been the concern, I think that as a scientist turned founder, uh, that you don't have the commercial expertise. And that's the most important part, right? Actually being able to make money off of the cool thing that you've developed. And so I think that was a really key part as well was being able to find the right person to bring her in. And that definitely changed the conversations as well because they then had the confidence that we would actually be able to commercialize it and negotiate a good deal as well. So yeah, I think those two things, you're absolutely right.

Speaker A: How exciting to see the team build out like that. Georgia, let's talk, uh, specifically now about your investors. And you've mentioned Angel Academy, who led the first round, first close and Sarah Tunne has been on the podcast and I mentioned just before we started the recording, she's obviously awesome. She's been in the space for such a long time. She invested in female founders and co founded teams I think as well. And this particular round was led by Thena Capital. I'm curious about your experience working with women investors around the table and did those conversations feel different from traditional fundraising discussions? And if so, how are they different?

Speaker B: So I think for us, I think having particular funds that are investing in female founders as well as I think another one obviously incredibly inspirational for us, we are In a very male dominated space. I've literally been told that I should get a male co founder to uh, you know, ease the laundry process.

Speaker A: M I can't believe that's still being said.

Speaker B: So really inspirational for us, particularly Thena being a completely female founded Medtech fund, for example, they also have to raise and so we know that they get it. And I remember before we'd had a chance to pitch to them and speak to them, I had seen Pamela on a panel who's now on our board, which is really cool. I'd seen her speak on a panel about how their fundraising experience, raising for their fund and how it also took them longer and they'd get smaller checks and therefore they'd have to do more to get that. And so seeing that mirrored even at VC level made me feel a little bit better about it as well. And so I think there's just an immediate understanding there. So yeah, I think it meant absolutely everything to us. And we said from the outset that we had a few kind of like dream funds and VCs that we would love to have on our cap table and thena Angel Academy, Sea Conduit were definitely all on that list. We're so happy with how it's all turned out. But actually one thing that I do want to mention as well is that we would also not be here without our uh, Johns. Our uh, cap table for the first year and a half was basically John Jason and we have felt so supported by their as well. So I think it's coming from both sides and I think whether or not it's funds that specifically back female founders or not, I think the main thing for us is that people that respect us and what we're doing. And so from the early days, such as the angel Johns that invested in us right from the beginning to funds like Impact funds like Conduit Connect, who don't specifically only invest in female founders. But we always felt like we were quite respected in the conversation. They weren't just on their phone or looking up, listening somewhere else. I think it's just definitely about finding the right people that were genuinely interested and listening to, actually listening to what we had to say.

Speaker A: Yeah, wonderful. Out of interest, did the initial Johns, did they have a kind of biotech or science background or were they more generalist investors?

Speaker B: More generalist. So I think just resonated with the story and what we were trying to achieve. And obviously us as founders as well, Obviously you could ask them for, but that's my understanding of it. But they were more Sector agnostic, coming from a kind of computer tech, tech background.

Speaker A: Really interesting. Really interesting. Now we know, Georgia, don't we, about the fact that women founders still receive a disproportionately small share of VC capital. And I hate that we keep talking about it. Still a problem. Hopefully this will change very soon. During your journey, what has been the most disappointing experience or recurring pattern that you've encountered as a woman raising capital and building a company in a highly technical sector?

Speaker B: Yes. In terms of uh, recurring pattern, I think it's almost the absence of information that sends you a bit crazy. I've obviously got things that I can pinpoint and talk about but one thing that I think doesn't necessarily get spoken about is that for me anyway, I was always second guessing. Did we not get that because it's something about the business? Is it something about our expertise or our team? Or is it just this underlying bias that I'm a woman you're just never going to know? And I think it was always not knowing. Is this actually the feedback or is it because I don't have a male co founder or something along those lines? And that kind of drives me a little bit crazy. The way that I've tried to reason with it in my mind is that actually it's all worked out how it should and it made me think actually that so I've got loads of tattoos, this is going to come back round. So one of my first tattoos, my mum was like, oh my God, you're never going to be able to get a job. What have you done? And my reasoning even at then I got them as soon as I turned 18 and my reasoning even then was like, like, okay, if a job doesn't want me because I have tattoos, then so be it. It's not the right fit. And so I think the way that I've reasoned it in my mind is that for whatever reason they said no, whether or not it was because we are a female founded company or not, it obviously was not the right fit. And I think it's almost like in a way because it's self selecting for people that don't see that as a problem. So yeah, I think that for me, on top of individual annoying experiences that we've had, I think it's just this absence of always like second guessing yourself. Is it me or is it the company or is it what we're doing? Is it the business model? But yeah, it's been really hard and I think the, as I mentioned before, we had that one experience where it was they were incredibly dismissive, incredibly rude on their phones the entire time they had this site visit and then followed up with, oh yeah, we think you need an older male co founder. Uh, basically. So I won the Women in Innovation award and we had this celebration for all of us that had won it. And as part of my speech I had gone through some of these silly things that people have said to us over the last few years and the amount of women that came up to me afterwards and said, oh, I've also had this and there was one about, oh, like she'd put in a salary for herself because obviously we obviously need to survive. Yeah, shock horror. Yeah. And I think she just had somebody say to her like, oh, can't uh, your husband give you pocket money or something like that. We can talk all day about all of these silly things that we've had said to us. But yeah, I think ultimately I'm going to look at it positively that it self selects for people that aren't going to be a good fit for you and your company. And it's meant that we've ended up in exactly the right place with exactly the right backers. And so it's all a blessing in disguise, even though it's absolutely ridiculous and really painful. But there are people out there that are brilliant men and women that are absolutely incredible and supportive whether or not you are a female or a male founder.

Speaker A: That's right. And I really like what you said there, Georgia. You have to dust yourself off, right? As a founder, you get so many rejections, you get so many people say so many ridiculous things. They can be dismissive, they don't understand what you're talking about. I don't know, it will make up all sorts of stuff and you have to keep going. You dust yourself off and keep going and keep believing that you will meet the right investor, female otherwise. And these people will back you because they believe in you. They believe in what you're building, they believe in your company and on you go. You can't let it get you down in any. It can maybe for a few minutes or hours, but then you, oh yeah,

Speaker B: you get up again, definitely have a cry about it for sure. Let it all out and then get back on it.

Speaker A: Oh yeah, on you go. But it's so satisfying then when you connect with the right team of investors. When I heard about your fundraise, Georgia and your startup, honestly put a smile on my face. I'm so happy and so happy that the female led female founded investors and funds are backing you. It's a huge signal. Right. We need these signals to say, hey, this is how it's done. And yeah, it's changing the narrative importantly as well, and putting the focus on the right things, really, which is great.

Speaker B: I am, um, super proud of where we've ended up. Could not have planned it better if I had tried. So, yeah, I'm thrilled with the position that we've ended up in.

Speaker A: Yeah. I don't know if you want to add anything else to this question. What do investors still misunderstand about female founders building deep tech or biotech startups, do you think?

Speaker B: I think so. When I first started this journey, I was made aware of a, uh, Harvard Business Review that looked into how female founders were questioned versus male founded companies. And a lot of it was around risk. And then you'd get quite negatively framed questions as opposed to positively framed ones. And then it's really hard to get yourself out of that cycle once you're in it. Yeah. So I think for me, I think actually I've always viewed the kind of, and this kind of ties into the financial modeling as well because obviously this is a huge over generalization. But what we were told is that if your male founders typically really over egg what they're the projections, if you will, and you get this nice curve and what have you, and female founders typically do the complete opposite and they would much prefer to be overly realistic about it. And then so for investors that are very used to seeing these like super high revenue projections, it's oh, why are you not going to make very much money? And so I think there's a little bit of learning for us in that as well, to back ourselves a little bit more. And there's a little bit learning on the other side to be a little bit more realistic. But I think the natural risk aversion that we have and more, um, of a tendency towards realism, if you will, or being a little bit more realistic, I think it's actually a gift and not a burden. Um, the steps that you take to really think about decisions. There's a little bit of give and take there as well. I've definitely become a little bit more comfortable with taking risks as I've gone on in this journey, which has been been absolutely necessary to grow the company at the speed and scale that we want to grow it at. But I do think there's a benefit in just taking a moment to actually think about it. And this perceived like natural risk aversion that supposedly few more founders have, which doesn't obviously doesn't count for everybody. But I do think there's an element that actually I don't think it's as much of a burden, um, or as much of a concern as we think it is. It just means that we're thinking about it a little bit more and we think about all the eventual realities and plan for those. And it just means that we're incredibly well prepared.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's right. I think that's very true and I agree. And I think it just shows you're being very considered and diligent and I'm sure you have a best case, medium case, worst case scenario. And if anyone wants to see the best case. Ooh, look at that hockey stick. Yeah, we all want that one. But you want to be realistic.

Speaker B: Yeah, there was definitely some training on my side of okay, what happens if you do this or think bigger? Could we do X, Y, Z different thing? So yeah, I think there's definitely learnings on both sides to meet in the middle somewhere.

Speaker A: Wonderful. Now, now I'm curious about you're building intellectual property rather than simply a product and how has that shaped the way you think about ownership, value creation and long term impact?

Speaker B: So I think I'd already said that we started off, I think as most companies do, maybe it was just my inexperience at the time, we were just like, we're just going to manufacture because that's what people do. But I think for us, as you mentioned, like a long term impact, because we were so focused on impact and the scale of the impact that we could have, given that it is such a large widespread problem in terms of hospital guard infections. We made this very clear decision that actually it was more important for us to have that impact and have that scale, not fight the big strategics and giants, but actually work with them and turn our, uh, competitors into partners rather than trying to just keep ownership of everything. And I think that kind of thinking extends out throughout the business as well, is that I would much prefer to have, have a super successful, massive giant pie and have a very small slice of that giant successful pie that's changing the world. Rather than have 100% ownership and 100% control, but not be having the impact that we know that we could be having. So I think that really shaped the way that we thought about the business as a whole. And being impact focused has really driven a lot of the decisions from there. And realistically I really don't know if we'd be getting the traction, be able to get there at all, get the funding if we hadn't pivoted to this type of business model, especially fighting against AI companies that can get to revenue generation so quickly and get returns for investors.

Speaker A: Fantastic. Now several investors have described Synova as having the potential to become foundational infrastructure for infection prevention across the medical device industry. If we sat down together 10 years from now, Georgia, and Zenovo had achieved everything you hope it will, what would have changed, not just for the company, but for healthcare itself.

Speaker B: So for the company, I think hopefully in 10 years we'll either be on our way to an exit or have had an exit already. It's definitely in the plan to get that return for the investors and really pass over the tech to companies that can really take it to the next level for healthcare itself, which is really what's driving all of this. We really truly believe that you shouldn't go into hospital and get worse. And there are so many cases of that, uh, particularly for patients that are immune compromised. Even just talking in the space of vascular access, if we could have every single device within vascular access, so your IV lines, your central lines, picks and ports, et cetera, if all of that can be embedded with technology that effectively does what it says on the tin, reduces those hospital acquired infections, stops the bugs from growing on them, um, and therefore stops the infections, it is a complete game changer. People can go into hospital, get the treatment that they went in there for. For example, you could be receiving chemotherapy through some of those vascular access devices or dialysis. There are so many different ways that we use these devices for other treatments and diseases that it would just be great to be able to go in, have the treatment and then leave and not have to stay in longer because you've gotten an infection, or stop your treatment because you've gotten an infection. And so really for us, the ultimate goal is to have every single device that is in and around the body with an opportunity to cause an infection to be embedded with Xinova's technology. So that hospital acquired infections are really a problem of the past and it's just not even something that we have to think about. And especially with the background being antimicrobial resistance and um, that being a growing crisis, antibiotics becoming less effective, it's going to become even more important that we can effectively prevent these infections from happening in the first place.

Speaker A: Really great mission and focus and I'm super excited about your company, Georgia. I have a sort of final question here, but I'd like to change it a little bit because as you probably know, I'm very focused on female investors, women as capital allocators and obviously female founders as well. And I wonder for women who may be listening who are thinking about investing for the first time, investing a sort of small check initially, or maybe they joined a VC fund which specifically invests in female founders, but they've never really thought about it before. What would your message be as a female, female founder who's been on this startup journey for a few years now, and you're now working very closely with female investors, what would you say to them to make them think about investing in the startup ecosystem and also investing in female founders?

Speaker B: I think for us we've relied so heavily on our angels, not only for capital up to this point, but also for advice and expertise. There is so much that our angels bring that we are so incredibly thankful for and also connection as well. It's hey, I was at a barbecue last weekend and I bumped into so and so who happens to be the CEO of this big medical device company. There are so many different ways that angels can be impactful to startups beyond the cash, which is obviously incredibly important. I'd say, number one, don't underestimate the impact that you can have even, even if it is in your view, a smaller ticket size. And also I think it's just incredibly inspirational for us that are earlier on in our journeys in this world to be able to have, have women that have either been in the space or made it and have been super successful and have the money to be able to invest in companies like that. I think there's something in that itself where it is really inspirational for us because I really hope that one day I'm also in a position that I can invest into startups and FEMA founded startups and startups, uh, that are doing really cool things in medtech because that's where my interests lie. And I think the more we can all be helping each other and supporting each other and lifting each other up, up in this space, the better. So yeah, if you need anybody to talk to about getting into angel investing, I would send you over to my excellent chair, Verity. I think we were one of her first investments, if not the first. I think it was the advice that was giving to her was like, what are you waiting for? But she can speak to that. But I would head to those communities, find out a little bit more. Angel Academy being one of those incredible communities that supports female founded startups.

Speaker A: Wonderful. I think that's great advice and that's a very powerful point when you've got to a point in your career when you, you're able to angel investors, pay it forward, and also share your experience and your expertise. And you're essentially saying, yeah, I'm voting with my money here. I want to see this product and all this service come to life. Right. Giorgio, thank you so much. I will be watching eagerly and hopefully have you come back at some point to let us know how you're getting on. But, yeah, thank you again and, um, no doubt, speak very soon.

Speaker B: Thank you so much for the opportunity. I really appreciate it and had a really great time speaking with you today. Day.

Speaker A: Thank you for joining me today. If you would like to connect with me, you can find me online at, uh, join the Purse, or you can subscribe to Our newsletter, JoinThePurse substack.com until next time. Goodbye.