#324: Rick Wolf , DraftNation - Turning Draft Day into a National Holiday

Speaker A: Hey everybody, what is going on? This is Scott Garber, back in the saddle of the profluent sports podcast where we are highlighting founders, investors, executives across the global sport landscape. Today I'm excited to welcome our next guest, Rick Wolfe, founder of Draft Nation 2026, bringing the live fantasy draft experience to circa uh in Las Vegas this year. Rick, my man, welcome to the show. How are you doing today?

Speaker B: I'm doing great. Every day that I'm in the fantasy sports industry is a great one. And uh, I certainly have turned my life from being an IBM programmer, a digit head, to being able to care about sports and develop some of the coolest things. So I'm really excited to talk to you about all of it.

Speaker A: Yeah man, and I'm excited to learn Rick, you know, I mean it's been really neat if you don't live under a rock. A lot of fan engagement is done through fantasy sports. And uh, whether that's in your parents basement, whether that's in a garage with your buddies, this elusive draft day has always captured our attentions. Specifically dads. And although not limited to and you uh, know, excited to go ahead and truly learn the evolution of fantasy, Rick, as we learn and navigate your journey, which will then lead us into this amazing crescendo moment bringing digital and physical together at the pool, at the circus. So Rick, you know, as we always do, man, it's important to understand who you are and really what led to you building Draft Nation. So pass the mic over, give the listeners a little context to your journey in the fantasy world.

Speaker B: Sure, sure. So um, you know, look, I mean growing up I think a lot of us loved, loved baseball cards and the whole statistics thing. I was a huge baseball fan. My family founded baseball in New York and In Connecticut in 1869 they played the first game in each place with Cartwright rules, Cartwright's rules that have the foul lines for the first time. And uh, so it's in my blood and I didn't realize that until after my mother passed away, but now like I understand why. I've loved baseball my whole life. So when I got to IBM after graduating from college, uh, I started programming there and I was the only one, 120 programs, only one who really liked sports. So every time there was something sports related, I raised my hand. And in 1989 I got the blessing of being on the team that built the first online fantasy baseball game, Baseball manager for Prodigy Service. Five years before the Internet. So it was pre Internet. I also put ESPN.com on Prodigy by building Their tools. And then when Michael Levy wanted to start Sportsline, it was basically a betting service, but it was a sports service out of Fort Lauderdale, Florida. He contacted. He contacted me and said, I want to get everybody who was on your team who, uh, built all those tools for espn, and I want to bring them all to Florida. And I said, well, it was just me. So there were only three other employees there at the time. And it's the ride of my life. It was Shaq, Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan, IBM, US West, Kleiner Perkins, Ron Ellison from, from, uh, Sun Microsystems, Barksdale from Netscape. IMG was a major investor. And we cobbled up $185 million really fast. And I just got to spend that. As we built SportsLine USA to become CBSSports.com and then go public in 97. It was just a crazy ride. Nobody slept. Just a fantastic thing. But one of the most important things was pitching Kleiner Perkins that they couldn't just do betting. Like when broke down the market into casual fan team fan, fantasy fan, gambler, historian, and collector, they wanted to remove the fantasy fan. They didn't understand it. Nobody really did. But when we did our research, 12% of Americans already played, and so it was more than the gambler. So we created a whole division for it. And that's what made. That's what really makes fantasy go mainstream. There is that decision for, for Michael Levy and CBS Sports to embrace it, and then you still have that platform as a very popular way to play.

Speaker A: So, Rick, let me ask you this, man. And, you know, we're going to go sort of all over today because you just cover a wide breadth of. Of, you know, from origination to the way we participate in fantasy. So there's going to be a bunch that we cover. Could you ever imagine when you were in the early 90s, you know, starting to put the framework around what fantasy is and how people are engaging, that we would have 60 million folks participating in an NFL football season here in 2026? Like, could you ever see that kind of scale with the product when you were starting it?

Speaker B: No, but in, uh, in 1997, late 1997, I went to Michael Levy and we had all this money, and I said, you know, I think we can consolidate the entire industry under the CBS Sports brand. Give me 20 million and I'll go talk to everybody, um, and I'll buy the companies and bring them in. And so he gave me the money and I went out to try and buy the companies. What I found out was everybody loved fantasy so much that they didn't want to give up their companies even if it was like their hobby. And so no matter how much money I had, I felt like Julia Robertson, Pretty Woman walking into the store with all the money and nobody would, nobody would sell her a dress to wear. Uh, and so then I converted from being like sort of a corporate raider guy. You know, I was a programmer who like got excited by the whole business side of things to like, wow, these guys are right. Fantasy is it. And I have, I left CBS and started Rotoworld and then sold that to NBC and then I left NBC because they didn't want me to stay in fantasy any longer either. And I've just stayed. And I started Fantasy Alarm. I've just stayed in fantasy the whole time. And one thing, the important moment about what we're doing@draftnation2026.com and why we're doing it is because it was the first social network. It was how you got together. My 1988 fantasy league had lunch every Monday in order to make our transactions in person. Because you couldn't do it over the Internet, right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so it was very social and we were buddies. We would go out on Friday nights. It was a whole big thing to be in a fantasy league because of the pandemic, uh, everybody went online and even when people who were having in person drafts all went online and we said to ourselves now this is why this is the perfect time because people need to get back in person for their drafts. And so@draft nation26.com especially people who have leagues should contact us because we're going to make the leagues the most important thing of this. And then individuals can come of course and play with our partner national fantasy football, NFC in high stakes. We're giving a $300,000 prize out for, for leagues there. And it's, that's a great celebration too. So if you want to come individually and compete in the high stakes league, great to bring your league there. We'll do your punishments for you. We'll do your draft order for you. You know, we'll have celebrities, we have Adrian Peterson signed up. We're going to announce other big celebrities very shortly as ah, we're finishing the signings on those. Michelle Beadle is going to be our, our master of ceremonies and it's just going to be a great two days to celebrate uh, you know, the, the best day in your, in your year I think for everybody is fantasy football draft day.

Speaker A: Yeah. No, and I'm really excited like, and you know, later in the show, we're going to unpack what that whole experience is going to be like. Right? Because I think it is interesting when you look at a communal activity that was forced to go online now across the whole sporting landscape, humans are begging to be in person. Right? So we're going to touch on what that whole experience has looked like. Rick, I have a question for you. Right? Like, because this, this to me, you know, the trade association that you're a part of or sit as a, or a founding board member, Fantasy Sports Trade association, right. This has been around for almost 29 years now, right? So this isn't like something that's been around, you know, the last couple years. Talk to me about the relationship. As, you know, how does the association or the, you know, uh, the trade association sit in relation to players, in relation to the large distribution channels where the activity is happening? What exactly is that? Nonprofit governing or helping sort of steer, steer this fantasy in the direction of.

Speaker B: One of the. One of the reasons I keep leaving major media companies to stay in fantasy is the, the community and the caring that exists in that community. Right. But this association, uh, has morphed multiple times and basically it does changes to be whatever is needed in this or in the, in the industry. So it started as the Fantasy Sports Players association, fspa, to protect people from tech fantasy, from being thought of as gambling. And so, uh, we got in there, we did education and we made sure that it was that, that everybody knew it wasn't gambling. And when they came down hard on, um, Bodog and Bovada and MVP Sportsbook in Costa Rica, when the government came down hard and they came down hard on Microsoft and Google for pushing people to those places, we were like, oh, not us. And we protected all the fantasy companies and the companies like CBS that were in fantasy and ESPN and Yahoo. And so that was an important role. And then we switched to be the FSTA in 2002 because we thought our job was done. So, so we said, let's be a trade association, help each other. There's a lot of things to get through now. There's a lot of things to figure out. How do we get customers? How do we grow the industry? How do we get mainstream to grab it, to grab onto it? So that's when MLB and NFL.com made their own versions of it. That's when ESPN jumped in. That's when Yahoo really exploded. That's when CBS kept pushing even harder. And that's when it really built from 2002 to 2005 or so. And then we had the league say we should own this and, and they came after us. And we defended ourselves in a different way. In 2005 we spent money on an amicus brief that said that the statistics were public domain and we sort of saved both sports betting and fantasy from being owned by all of the leaks. And then in 2015 we defended again when the governments came down and said DFS was illegal. And uh, we said the carve out that we helped create in 2006 in the safe Port act, we said that would be a component that we could use in order to make sure that DFS is legal. And we fought all those battles. And the FS then TA spent a lot of money, like close to a million dollars on lobbying and other stuff along with DraftKings and Fanduels and a couple of our members who spent a lot more in order to protect that our hobby. And then in 2018 when password was repealed, we changed again and that's when we became the Fantasy Sports and Gaming association so that we can include and protect and lobby for sports betting. And now that it was legal because we really believed it should have been legal from the first, from the, from the word go and we honestly in 2009 when Governor Christie at the time put it on the ballot and sort of pushed the unconstitutional, we knew eventually it was gonna go. We thought it would be right away. We thought it'd be 2010 or so and it took eight more years. But that's the sort. I mean that's a long winded way of giving the law.

Speaker A: This is wonderful.

Speaker B: But now we all just care about each other in sports betting and fantasy and try and help each other, especially with legislation. How do I get, how do I get up in the state of New York? How do I get up in Pennsylvania? Who do I pay? What are the regulations? All those things the FSGA now helps people understand and helps them save money in the process of being able to run their fantasy leagues and their sports betting, uh, properties.

Speaker A: Love it. No, and I mean look at that little history lesson is super important to watch the evolution of. You know it really tells a, ah, neat story of the space, right. Who we're protecting, where the commercial dollars are being spent and then always this sort of seesaw right of like where, where you guys are landing and who can be protected under that umbrella.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Let me ask you this Rick. You know when. And let's go. We're going to go draft nations2026.com here for a second Is this only for DFS players or are we able to come in here and if I'm running a guillotine league, a best ball, if I'm running a pickle, like, give me a little insight like, because like, fantasy is not just one. One size fits all right?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's the opposite. It's, it's season long. It's to celebrate. Most people do play season long. They play in a league even if they play DFS or otherwise. And people play as many as the average is 7.1 leagues that people play in. Like, which is absolutely nuts, right? So with 60 million people playing an average of seven leagues, I mean, it could be a ton of drafts. Now they're playing in some leagues that don't draft or have different processes for drafting. So we think it's well up over 200 million drafts every year now. So. But it's all about the seasonal player and actually promoting your draft there daily. Fantasy sports doesn't happen for another three weeks, so we won't, we won't have that there. This is all about your draft, your league, your social network, your group of 12, 10 or 12 people who you love so much that you just want to party with and how can we do your draft? Vegas, uh, Vegas style. Draft Nation2026.com Come on, baby.

Speaker A: Let them know if you can't tell. Rick Wolf was on Sirius XM Radio. This isn't his first time making subtle plugs at the end of a segment. Rick, let me ask you this, man. You know, we are all going through, through massive changes right now as AI is speaking English, it's now working into our processes. You come from the IBM world though, so you understand the technical side and the application. Talk to us in the last 24 months, what have been some of the evolutions that you've been able to witness or help orchestrate as AI has become more widestream, Whether that's from running leagues, drafts, different player information, give me some insight to how AIs impacting the fantasy world.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I mean, I'll say this for anybody out there who's listening, embrace AI. Whatever job you're in, it can make you better, it can make you faster, it can make you smarter if you're using it, right? So for programmers, especially now with the speed of computers, AI can type faster than any programmer can. So if you can give it the right prompts and just watch it. And now it, now it's, now it's typing faster than you could ever type and then you can stop it and then you can redirect it. And I use it the same way when I'm doing documents. Right. If I'm, if I'm creating a document or trying, trying to do research, trying to find some more information, create a great prompt. You know, I, I use, I use both Claude and ChatGPT. I know there's people who use 10 different ones, but you know, Claude is your pro, your programming one and the one that can help you with things that are a little bit more complicated. And ChatGPT is basically my everyday browser now and that just embrace it and grab it and it uh, it'll be able to do a lot of stuff for you. So we, we vibe coded draftnation2026.com with Claude and we built in a full affiliate system and payment management and we now have the ability to have people promote us and we know how to track it. It's tracking every sale for us. It's giving us where it came from and then we're able to do our marketing a lot better so that we can make sure that we pack this place.

Speaker A: It's incredible to watch it both in our business and on our business. I'm curious, you know, like from the profluence lens, we see so many different data companies coming online to help make better picks, to help understand, you know, where the player came from, what they're currently. Are there any tools that you know from your side that you lean on as you're picking your team going into this season to help make sure that you are making the best choices? Like give us a little insider, insider tips as. As m. You've been doing it for a while.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I'm old, old school about the way I do. So it's more about certain metrics that I do that I'll. That I'll bring in that information and say, you know, I'll connect chat DBT with my database of uh, statistical data for the last three years and then maybe projections data from a couple of different places. And then I'll ask it to determine for me certain things. You know, air yards for, for quarterbacks is a very good one. You know, so that you know that quarterbacks throwing downfield, right. That those, those guys are more likely to have more yards and more touchdowns. And so I look at some of the metrics and I bring those in and then I bring those sheets to me and then that it automates me creating my cheat sheets for drafts. But for me for fantasy football it's more just fun. For fantasy baseball, I'm really crazed.

Speaker A: Is that your one?

Speaker B: I think fantasy football is just something people should just have a blast with and the people who are ultimately like super competitive at it, Great, good, go have fun. But really it's, it's more about getting those 12 people together that you care about and you know, having a matchup on the weekend and rooting for your guys, they rooting for their guys and you know, have some good trash talking going on, get a good punishment at the end of the year and you know, have fun with it. So more so than for me, more so than winning now. Daily fantasy sports I think is different during the football season. It's great to wake up on a Sunday morning, analyze everything, make a few bets and put a few lineups in that that makes the day even more fun. But for you and your buddies and draftation2026.com that's the way, that's the way to go. Just have a blast.

Speaker A: I love it. I love it. I love it. All right, we're going to go off kilter here and then we're going to spend the back half of the show walking us through everything that's coming down in Vegas here in a couple months. Rick, let's talk real quick though, right? We're watching from the profluence lens, an emerging trend of new leagues, right? And fantasy has always been this really unique way to go ahead and drive engagement, get to know the, get to understand the rules, but in a pretty friendly communal way. So you know, obviously you touched on football, baseball, hockey, some of the big four we know have it. What is, give me some examples and some thoughts, uh, as to like as new leagues are coming in, whether it's high rocks or fishing or disc golf, like can daily fantasy or season long fantasy be applied to any sport? Um, really speaking more to the founders of these companies that are looking to drive awareness for what they're doing.

Speaker B: I mean anything that's popular, we used to say a while ago when we were with ROTOR World, initially we need to cover any sport with player news that is on ESPN or on a broadcast network. So we would look out and try to figure out which which was the next popular thing. So once it's, once it's there then people can see it and watch it and enjoy the watching of it more by having, having a little bit of skin in the game if you will. So or they, or they can find people who are like minded, like them, you know, and create that community of people who do like to watch bass fishing on a Saturday. So that I think creates. If it's on tv, then that's what it's all about. Fantasy has always been about making the games more fun to follow and more fun to watch.

Speaker A: Very good.

Speaker B: I think that's the cultural shift there is people are now doing multiple things at one time. It used to be that the TV was device number one and the phone was device number two. Now the phone is number one and the TV is number two. So you have to actually program and figure out what you're doing as a business in order to support the phone first and then the actual broadcast of the game. So absolutely, that's what we're seeing happen right now. That sort of transition in those two things. It's not the first time. I mean we saw the same thing as we transitioned from, you know, newspaper and you know, uh, only seeing highlights to actually full games and people watching full games on Sunday because they could see them all. Remember we could only see. Well, when I was watching, we could only as a teenager we could only see, you know, two teams, our local teams, New York jets and New York Giants, where, you know, now you can see every single game. And that creates fans of all types. And that's great for fantasy and fantasy is great for that.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, it's uh. And it's continuing to evolve. Right. Rick, I'm curious. When you look across the landscape, we have Gen Z and you know, Gen Alpha that consume very different than millennials and older. Where do you see sort of like if you're down the fairway, what is that sweet spot of age demo that's engaging in fantasy that make up that 60 million number that we're talking about?

Speaker B: Yeah, so I mean for the 60 million number is just a continual expansion. By the way. We've had double digit growth for every single year since 1988, except for 2020 when when the pandemic was there, basically all fantasy sports stopped. And since baseball couldn't start half season growth, growth, you know, had had a lot of trouble in 20, in 2020, but we continue to see that growth for the next generation. I think what we see or what I've been seeing because people like to show me new products, seen a couple products, one out of China and uh, one out of. Out of here, out of New York where it's more about entertainment. So instead of, you know, if there's a mighty jam by Giannis, you know, they'll actually show that as like an absolute explosion of everything in the, in the venue and then they'll put it all back to the broadcast. And so we're seeing a sensationalizing because that's something that Gen Z and Gen F like, they like. You know, I would say if they were in the PEDs era, they would have liked that Roger Clevins would have thrown a fastball to Barry Bonds. He would have hit it 4,000ft and then they both would have exploded. Yeah, there's, there's just a, uh, they just, they just like the excitement of stuff. You know, they like, they like to watch epic fails and you know, things, things on. On TikTok. And so I think you'll see fantasy football become fantasy football where you'll actually get a highlight reel of your players, but they'll be doing more dramatic things than they did. Right. When the guy runs for a touchdown, when he gets an end zone, he'll do like a flip across the back thing and then, you know, there'll be fireworks everywhere, you know. So I think you'll see some sort of more entertainment oriented things be added to fantasy sports.

Speaker A: I couldn't agree more. And I think that's a trend that we're going to watch across. Right. It's, uh, you know, it's hard to cater to somebody that was just used to watching the local RSN that now has access to everything. Also hard to cater to the kid who has everything. And you talking about only having two RSNs. Right. So it's always trying. Like it's interesting from the league level, the book level, the broadcast level, um, and then like all the, you know, sort of offshoots on how everyone's thinking about it.

Speaker B: One, one more point to put a pin on that. People, people cover, root for sports differently. People are player fans now, not team fans. Yes, my son is, My son was a Chris Paul fan. Every time Chris Paul moved teams, he had a new team. Uh, you know, Peyton, I had a Peyton Manning fan in my house. Colts fan. Oh. Then Denver Broncos fan. Right. So people root for, for players now as much as they root for teams. And they're not afraid to switch fandoms based on a player going to another team.

Speaker A: Is that a byproduct of fantasy?

Speaker B: It's, uh, definitely. There isn't. There's no question about it. And, and of fantasy sports coverage because ESPN and NBC and all the others, they, they cover the game by covering the players. Players association was really smart. They did a campaign, helmets off. And they got people to get used to and know the players and they started. The players started doing endorsements that had them with their faces, not with helmets and we started to get to know the players on a real level and that helped fantasy. That continued the boom of fantasy, but it also helped the watching of the sport because who's going to, you know, who's going to watch, you know, a crappy Cleveland versus Tampa Bay game, you know, in week 13? It's on Sunday Night Football, unless I got Mike Evans on my fantasy team, you know. So it's, it's really helped drive viewership and uh, and it's really great for the game and it's great for the fans.

Speaker A: Well, and it's catalyzed a whole new stream of business as we look at the era of N, um, you know, to get to know the athlete in a more dynamic way. And you know, Cannes Lions is going on. Sport beach is going on right now. And it's incredible to watch the same folks that you have on your fantasy team now. You have the ability to buy their tequila or wear their socks or like. So it's really neat to watch the athlete develop more than just the rock and jock model. But because we get to know them and we follow them around their journey now, we have this connection with them. And as they launch products, services and become like the platform themselves, it's really creating an on ramp into what I believe is the next wave of business, the next wave of leagues. Um, and it will be player led. And so it's a really interesting sort of correlation there between what fantasy has done and where the market's going. Would you agree with that?

Speaker B: And then you see players buying shares of teams now because they understand that, you know, they'd rather be the owner or the trainer than the jockey.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: And so they're uh, they're getting themselves into a place where they can be, you, uh, know, more of an impact and.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And to, you know, take the sport to another level for them, even when they're, when they've aged out of being able to play.

Speaker A: What an exciting time. Rick, uh, let me, let me ask you this, right? So draft nations2026.com. What was the moment where you said, okay, I have to start to evolve what this looks like and bring everyone together? What was that? Where I'm going off the cliff. This is my next venture. Walk us through that.

Speaker B: Off the cliff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, this is, this is a fun one. So. But initially in 1998, when we had all that pile of money, one of the things we wanted to do was do a consumer event, but it wasn't really ready. I mean, there were, you know, there were only like 7 or 8 million people playing in America at that time. And you know, 12.5 million by 2005 and then 23 million, you know, by, by 2021, you know, now numbers just shooting through the, through the roofs at over 60 million. So the epiphany for this came when I've been talking about this every year to somebody. I'd be like, oh, we should have done that. You know, was that a couple other people came to me who had a relationship with the Circa and they said, we're thinking about throwing a party there. And I said, why don't we make it a national holiday? So I contacted the people at National Calendar Day and I submitted a brief, a pretty long one, and then they interviewed me a few times. And we're uh, one of the 15 new holidays for this year. National Fantasy Football Draft Day is now a holiday on August 21st in perpetuity forever. So that's what we're celebrating. We're celebrating this thing we did for the industry because everything I've ever done is for the industry. And so we're bringing everybody together at Circa for the first one. Then we plan to have satellite packages that we can give to people where they can franchise out of their local bar or restaurant. And we'll give them all the tools and all the things they need to do and then we'll simulcast through there with the streaming partner. The event that goes on at Circa. So the big draft that goes on there, the draft that's going on there is for the Jimmy V. Foundation. It's anchored by James Rhode Island Roday and Thomas Everett Scott. We're hoping that the Miz will be there. I'm not sure, but you know, they're going to do a draft for charity and then we're going to have a, uh, we're going to have an auction that's going to be run by the Scott Fishbowl, which is the biggest charity in Fantasy. Fantasy Cares gives a million dollars to Toys for Tots every single year. And kids get presents for Christmas when they wouldn't normally get them. So those are nice charitable components that are there. And we're going to celebrate at the best venue. Folks, if you have not seen it, just Google Stadium swim. It's like the greatest thing in the world. It's, it's 28 cabanas, six pools, two owner suites that go underneath the pools and it's 143 foot screen. And we went out there last week to see if we could roll down turf and we could have field goal kicking contests there and we're going to. We'll have across the pools cornhole. We'll be playing all sorts of games down there at the same time as we have both of those two drafts. And then the whole thing will be mc by. By Michelle Beadle. And we have a guest DJ who we can't announce yet who will be there, but he's a big star.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And uh, and it's just going to be a mammoth event to celebrate the holiday. They're going to come and do a ribbon cutting and they're going to hand me a proclamation for the. For the day. And National Fantasy Football Draft Day will. Will be. I won't keep it for myself. I'm not just going to sign that and keep it. Everyone who's at the pool there is going to sign my proclamation and then we're going to put it behind. We're going to put it behind a window at Circa that can be seen all the time. So they can see. National Fantasy Football Draft Day has been proclamated.

Speaker A: How cool. If we were doing this interview a couple years ago, we would have made this an NFT project and we could have sold a bunch of digital copies of it. But. Funny how the world evolves. Rick, this is incredible, man. It's uh. You know, there's a lot of folks that are building new things. Very few that I've ever heard cemented and make it an actual holiday. But this makes a ton of sense. Uh, I think the one question I have right is because fantasy spans year round, not all fans consume the same sport. How does this work for. Well, I don't know if baseball is going to have a fantasy draft this year. That's tbd. But uh, how does this work for other sports? Will this holiday be to commemorate and bring everyone together or will it always be around football?

Speaker B: It will always be around football. And here's the main reason why. Football is perfectly created to be a fantasy sport. It's just perfect. You don't have to be. You can be a novice or an expert and still play and compete. And it's perfectly crafted. The season's short enough, but long enough. And also, you're going to think this is a crazy number, but it's true. 93% of all fantasy players across all sports play a fantasy football league even if it's not their favorite sport. So almost everyone plays anyway. So we are pulling together the whole community of players anyhow. Uh, and it's just the right time. It's the end of the summer. You know, I don't think, I think, I know there are events for fantasy baseball and other things. Maybe we'll do it for fantasy baseball because I know Circa has them at their location. But it won't go national. Like this is going, this is going to go national for the holiday. And you know, we're, we want to be in every city in America next year and, and just every, in every basement, in every front lawn and every barbecue the year after that.

Speaker A: All right, so this, this is great. Last real question and then I got a rapid fire one for you and then we're going to take this thing home. All right, but like, if I'm listening to this, do I have to be the commissioner to come to this event? Can I be just an individual? Can I bring my whole squad? What is, who's invited to this event?

Speaker B: Absolutely, everyone's invited. And um, so you can see the ticket packages at draft draft nation2026.com. There's a party section. You just want to come to the party and celebrate the holiday, you know, and play, play a basketball or two is, you know, those are part of packages. And then there's the. I want to be there for the whole weekend. I want to meet, you know, we have 20 fantasy analysts signed up already. Everybody in the industry will certainly be there. We have all the partners, everybody from ROTOR Worlds, you know, out NBC Sports, etc. And then, you know, we have packages for that and those also include a VIP package. And that's, there's only 300 of those available. And that's because we'll have an ending party with all the athletes and celebrities at that for a more personal experience there. But two of the, two of the play packages come with a, uh, an entry to the NFFC championship, the football guys championship. That's a $350,000 prize. So, um, it's a, it's a great opportunity to play in that tournament and, but we really want commissioners and others to come to us because they'll be. Imagine drafting your league out of a cabana in, in Stadium Swim and then having, you know, pundits come through, whether it's no Howard Bender or, or, or Jeff Erickson or any of these other guys who you listen to on SiriusXM will come through and critique your draft. You know, Adrian Peterson stops by, Michelle Beatles there, another hall of Famer who's not signed yet stops by and they're part of your draft. Now if one of your draft members doesn't come, that's when it Gets fun because we are going to make sure that everybody sits in on your draft. And that last person who couldn't make the trip gets, uh, gets punished for not. For not making.

Speaker A: How cool. I mean, you can feel the excitement. This is quite literally what sport is about, right? And we're learning that you don't have to be in an arena watching a team in order to go ahead and exercise the same beauty of what we all care about sport, which is the tribalism, which is the communal aspect of it, and really just belonging to something bigger than yourself. And now to have a holiday to commemorate that, Rick, is nothing short of incredible. I got to ask you, I'm sure you've been playing fantasy just as much as you've been participating and help shaping it for three plus decades now, Rick. We're watching these punishments get off the Richter scale right now. They're crazy. Give me a little insight. I'm sure you're winning all your leagues, but what has been the craziest punishment that you and your buddies have come up with? And if you've ever been in the loser bracket, what's the one that you had to perform?

Speaker B: The. The, uh, we. I don't have a lot of leagues that do have punishments, but one of them that I have, the punishment is the 24 hours in a, in a Waffle House or IHOP. And so they have to. And they can subtract one hour for every. For every pancake or waffle they eat. So they eat like 30 waffles in order to. In order to leave and.

Speaker A: Oh, that's fun.

Speaker B: So, yeah. And, uh, and we do we. Because, uh, we'll pay it off at our next draft. Sometimes we'll do it nine. Nine and nine at a baseball game. So, you know, nine hot dogs and nine beers and nine. And we'll make. We'll make somebody get sick at a ballpark.

Speaker A: So that's enough to make me feel nauseous right now. Rick, this has been tremendous, man. Thank you for everything that you've done for the industry. If folks want to learn more about draft nation2026.com I know that's the website. Where else can they find you guys? How can they get tickets and how can they get involved in the holiday?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, we're on X at Draft Nation 2026. Of course, we're run by pundits. You know, Ed Bunnell, who he put fantasy mode in Madden for ea, and then Bill Enright, who of course runs Sports Illustrated. We'll be putting content up and, and uh, we'll all be, you know, telling you who you should draft and putting some more content up on, on RaftNation 2026. And our announcements will be coming from there on X and on Instagram mostly. So, um, that's where you can find us. And then of course, draftnation.com2026.com my information is right on there. You can send me a note and you know, or anybody on the team and find out how to get your league there, because that's what it's all about. I made a promo code, Garber, right before I got you got on. So people can get 20 off if they use promo code.

Speaker A: Come on. That might be the most value that I've had on my name in a long time, Rick. So, uh, you guys heard it first. Drop the last Name Garber, get 20% off. Draft Nation2026.Com Rick Wolf, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule to come hang with us here on the profluence pod. We look forward to watching and celebrating all of your tremendous success. And uh, I hope everybody is at Circa getting their draft on here in a couple months. Rick, talk soon, brother.

Speaker B: Thanks, my man.