080: Hospitality That's Felt: Carin Stutz on Culture, Leadership and Retention in Restaurant Operations

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Pineapple Perspective. The show that challenges you to have a new perspective on your life and business through the lens of the universal symbol of hospitality, the Pineapple. I'm Troy Hooper, CEO of Hot Palate America. Each episode we will bring you thought provoking questions and insight into how to elevate your business and brand by integrating hospitality into your mindset and operational framework. Let's get started.

Speaker A: Foreign uh,

Speaker B: Welcome to another episode of the Pineapple Perspective. I'm your host, Troy Hooper. These are sponsored by Pepperlunch Restaurants. Pepperlunch Restaurants.com franchise if you're a multi unit franchise operator in the industry, we'd love to show you all the amazing advantages that Pepperlunch has to offer as a business investment opportunity to today. Again, as I always say, I'm just absolutely blessed. I'm absolutely uh, humbled that I get the chance to have conversations with some of the industry's top names, biggest icons and leaders in the space. I don't use those words lightly because this guest is all of those and more. Welcome Karen Stutz to the Pineapple Perspective.

Speaker A: Hey Troy, thanks for having me. Uh, what a joy. I've been listening to you for years. I only see you probably a couple of times a year, but every time when I you at a conference, I always seek you out. You've always got some words of wisdom and you're just one of the kindest people in the industry.

Speaker B: You're too sweet.

Speaker A: So, pleasure.

Speaker B: Look, you're uh, the kindest person in the industry right next to Amy Hom who you tend to uh, to, to be uh, twinsies with at these conferences. Any chance I get to sit at a table during a session or definitely grab a drink or go to dinner with you guys? I, I just, I eat it up. Because your conversations around the human side of this industry are really important. Both you and Amy focus on culture and people and doing the right thing and taking care of our staff and training them and that. We'll talk a little bit about that because I know that's a passion of yours and educating the staff and the leadership of this industry. So yeah, again, just absolutely love to uh, be in the same room and learn from truly icons like you will get into your bio and history. I'm not, I'm not hyperbolic here. This, this lady's done a whole lot of things that any one of us would be very, very proud to have accomplished in our career. But Karen, we open the show every time with the guest having the very first question right out of the Gate. What does hospitality mean to you?

Speaker A: Well, I tell you, I listen to everybody say it on your, uh, on your various podcasts, and I think they're all right. It's so simple to me. It's just the love and the passion and that we put into making someone's day. Right. It's this genuine connection that we can foster with our, Our, uh, team members, with our guests, with anyone that goes way beyond service. Right. That's kind of how I look at it. I think with those of us who've been in the restaurant business for a long time, Troy, we can identify hospitality the minute, maybe the second that we walk into a restaurant, you either know that it's right, and it's going to be a great experience. Experience. Never underestimate that first impression that's going to define the entire experience around hospitality.

Speaker B: Does the person greeting you, no matter who they are, are they really actually genuinely happy and, um, glad you're there? Right. And can you tell the difference between a fake smile, a real smile, if you get a smile at all? But absolutely, I, I concur with that completely. Karen, do us a favor. I, I won't let you hide, uh, under a rock here. So if you don't, if you don't cover it well enough, I will make you bashful. But please tell our audience, who are you and where have you come from? Tell us a little bit about what have you done in this industry over, like, what, the last six, seven years you've been doing this? Go ahead.

Speaker A: Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Uh, Gosh, I know. I can't believe I'm. I get retirement age. I guess the first thing I would say to anybody is, it goes by in the blink of an eye. Five decades, and it feels like just yesterday that I started, I could simply say I probably followed the growth and started out in quick service. Had a nice career with Wendy's. I started at McDonald's actually, in high school and college. From there went to casual dining, so went to Applebee's as the, uh, SVP of operations, and then moved up to the EDP COO role, overseeing almost 2,000 restaurants there. Had the pleasure of being the global business leader for Brinker, which is Chili's, Maggiano's today, and, uh, overseeing everything outside of the United States. Wow, what a learning experience that was. And then I moved into fast casual, uh, with whether McAllister's president, McAllister's, um, been CEO, uh, of Native Food, CEO Cozy, and, uh, CEO of Red Robin. So that gives you kind of an idea. It's interesting. I'm part of the Illinois Restaurant association now, which is like all of the cool rest independent restaurants in, uh, downtown Chicago and throughout Illinois. But, uh, I'm kind of the, the anomaly of the big chain girl. And I couldn't be more proud of the work that we do, uh, in chain restaurants that.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's. I'm just going to recap for everybody. COO Applebee's. Okay. COO President or COO Red Robin, uh, Brinker on the international sides of taking Brinker overseas. I was just at the global restaurant conference and the CEO of Brinker was there and uh, was talking about his overseas business. And Karen is, is, is the catalyst of those things. So, uh, absolutely thrilled to have you, Karen. Really excited to get into a conversation. The beautiful thing about this conversation, it's not planned. I have no questions on a screen. We did not rehearse this whatsoever. We're just a couple of industry people that want to chop it up about what's going on and what matters in the industry. So Karen, today, you know, you're not in those executive roles. You have quote, let's go air quotes, retired from that side of life, but you're doing a lot of other things. You're doing board work and you're doing, uh, consulting and you're doing leadership, uh, development. You still, uh, involved in the education side of, of the industry, uh, through the university. So you have a lot going on. And I like how people say we're retired. You're probably busier now than you ever were and you're still showing up and you're on stage and you're, and you're leading in this industry. Tell me what's on your mind, uh, from your position, looking at this industry from your seat today, given that legacy experience that you have and that global experience that you have, what is standing out, what's catching your attention, what's on your mind?

Speaker A: You know, there's a lot of things I think as you reflect back over a career. You know, first of all is, you know, I don't have any regrets of anything that I did. But looking back, you always do some self reflection and say, what would I have done differently? And probably this just going a whole different direction here. You know, as I look back at my career, um, I would have probably been more challenging with marketing. You know, it's like I'm real, I

Speaker B: can hold candle just as the operations person.

Speaker A: I know big shot Karen. Yeah, I know operations. I mean, it just comes naturally to me. I. A day in a Restaurant is just a fantastic day no matter what. And, uh, you know, but I think I was often guilty. It's like, you know, when you're working a restaurant and you're not comfortable behind the bar, you hope you. You let the bartender get away with a little more than they should, maybe. I feel like over my career, I probably let marketing get away with more than they should. You know, they're so responsible and accountable for that top line. So I guess that would be my word. Words of wisdom, first of all, is for those of us who move up from an operations perspective, pay more attention, and hold marketing teams accountable for real results. And I think that's really important. You're ultimately judged by traffic, right? And same store sales. Running a public company and any company, frankly, that's your number one metric. Although we can talk about guest metrics, that's becoming, I think, elevated with any company right now and how important that is. So I think that would be one of the key learnings that, uh, I would put out there. What else is going on? You know, I get a chance to pay attention to Black Box. I think we've all used that as a benchmarking tool, but they're bigger than that. Victor Fernandez, you know who he is, he's been their economist forever. You call there, he gets on a phone call with you. And we've been really talking about how do you make this industry? And, uh, for lack of a better word, we need better pr, right? Those of us who are in it, we love it. We wouldn't want to do anything else. But people that are getting into this industry sometimes look at it as a stepping stone, right? Till I find something better. Mom and dad, you know, I think when I gave my, uh, I was. I won the distinguished Alumni Award, uh, at my universities, you have to give a speech to the grad, you know, the graduates there as they're there. And I remember saying to the audience, you know, as soon as you get home, you know, you've got your. You got your degree in your hand. Your parents could say, okay, what are you gonna do? Right? And I said, I said to my parents, I'm gonna work at a fast food restaurant.

Speaker B: You're gonna do y.

Speaker A: Well, it was somewhat of that reaction, but I remember as, you know, as I was, uh, through high school, and I've told this story before, but we, we grew up like a lot of folks that start out in the restaurant industry with, uh, little means, but, you know, good parents who, you know, make sure that you have a good education and you have a good drive and a good work ethic. And I remember at McDonald's these young guys would come in in a brand new company car. Right. Our family had never had a company car. So my goal early on, when I decided I was going to be in the restaurant business, was to have a brand new car. And not to show you my age, but I want to tell you, by 1980, Troy, I was driving a navy blue Buick Century, brand new.

Speaker B: Amazing. I thought it was going to be a Corvette. Karen, I got you as a Corvette gal, actually.

Speaker A: Well, my husband has one now, a cherry, bright red one sitting out there in the garage.

Speaker B: So there you go.

Speaker A: That was more his passion, but, uh, I think it was more just having something new like that. That was kind of a big deal to, uh, big deal to me. But the restaurant businesses provided, you know, means and experiences that I would have never, ever imagined. But, uh, I've kind of gone astray once again. I think with, you know, for me going to Needen street now and, and a passion of mine is just trying to figure out is how do we make this a career for people? I think the, uh, the results you see lately, retention or turnover, is still over 110% for team members in the mid-40s. For managers, that's just a lot of training over and over again. How do we capture that same spirit that we have about the industry to someone stepping into it? And uh, you know, I really try to observe that. And as I watch area directors, as I coach and mentor a lot of different people in the industry, the first thing I often notice is when they go into the restaurant, it's like, oh my God, I've got so much work to do. You know, and they start talking about the, all of the negative things and it's like, wait, if I'm sitting there as that manager, do I aspire to be you?

Speaker B: Yeah. And it's uh, really, that's a huge, huge issue. You see it all the time. Yeah.

Speaker A: It's got to start with us. We have to talk about the great things about our job because honestly, there's so many great things. And if not, what are we doing to create a better environment? That starts with us.

Speaker B: If you're not a problem solver, if you don't get energy from tackling opportunities every day. The thing I think most of us are in this industry for and we get addicted to, is that it's not the same thing every day, but if you focus on the things that are the same thing every day, I think that's what bogs people down mentally. Oh, uh, the staff is late. Oh, uh, the uniforms aren't pressed. Oh, uh, that. Right. They didn't fill the salt shakers. If you just focus on those mundane, repetitive things that are always going to be a thing. I love the fact that for those of us that have a tremendous passion for this industry, it's the fact that if you walk in the door, you have a new opportunity. You, you probably have 20 new opportunities every day. And if you tackle those with passion and excitement as, as a challenge, then you're setting the tone. Right. And I think what you're saying is, is so important is, is there's really a lack of leadership training. Always has been treating this as a profession where people have to be developed, invested in and, and, and grown and given opportunity. Right. And I think if we do that, if we approach it that way, ultimately we'll get a better return, we'll get less problems because more people that are passionate about solving these problems alongside of us. So yeah, I think you have to look at this as a, uh, this is hand to hand combat. You're doing it as a one person deal. You're going to be on an island by yourself. You build a team and you build a bunch of people that are passionate about solving the same problems with you, then you'll have less problems and it'll be a lot more fun, I think.

Speaker A: Yeah. So true. You know, my kids are grown now and I know you got little ones, but just watch when they enter the workforce and as they come home and they start talking about their bosses, it's kind of eye opening. And uh, you know what I really learned too is that where my sons would come home and talk about this boss is so strict, or you know, we have these goals for this that they excel, they flourished under those bosses. And the ones that were chaotic, uh, you know, you would hear them saying like, oh my gosh, all my friends are just giving away free. Like, oh my God, that's terrible. Don't you ever do that. And they said, no, no mom, we wouldn't, we wouldn't do it. But it's just so interesting to see the lack of leadership once you witnessed it done.

Speaker B: Well, my wife, uh, got the opportunity to leave her career after 16 years as a very high level executive in the luxury hotel space. Uh, and last night, this is just contemporary conversation. Last night she read something to me and she didn't say who, what, ah, where from what? And she said, and she read this text from a friend or it's still in the industry and said, troy, what if I told you? And she just laid out this sort of nightmare scenario and she said, if I told you, all of these jobs were posted at this one hotel. Exactly right?

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Head this, head that, executive chef, head of housekeeping, head of this, head of that. I mean, the entire leadership was available, right? Yeah, everything except for those top one or two positions was posted. And I looked her and I go, babe, you know what I'm going to say? I've always said it. Whenever you came home with a headache or this happened or that happened, or this didn't happen. It's always a lack of leadership. It starts at the top. It absolutely starts at the top. The tone is set, the strategy is set, the vision is set, the goals, like, are we going 5 yards, 10 yards, 15, 20 yards? What are we doing here? Right? And there's no excuse. It starts at the top. And so I just think that like, uh, you said, uh, I've always treated the same way, Karen. Uh, I had a turnaround management company for a long time and so my life was walking into toxic hospitality environments and saying, all right, guys, I know you've been beat up. I know you've been treated terribly. I know you hate everybody. I know you know more than anybody above you got it. I understand. I know where you're coming from. Let's talk about what you need. What do you want? What would get you excited? And one of the things I've always started off with is I know you're not going to do this forever. I just make the assumption right now maybe 5 or 10% of them will stay in the hospitality industry. But I am so proud that many of them go off to be nurses and doctors and airline pilots and engineers and what, uh, incredible people, right? But I always make sure they understand you will learn something here if you want to learn something here that you can carry with your life. Every executive I've probably ever met, uh, what was your first job? I was a busboy, a host, a hostess, uh, yeah, you know, expo, food, runner, whatever. Right. We've almost all had a job in the restaurant industry, I would think so It's a great training ground. Whether you stay in hospitality as a profession or you go on to do other things, there's definitely lessons in this industry you can carry with you. What do you think?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I agree with you 100%. Honestly. I look back at early days of working at Wendy's and talking in a microphone. Right. Just standing up there when you have to Call out the orders. That's how long it's been. Uh, but things like that, that you learn just customer service, dealing with a disgruntled, uh, guest over a three hour meal, it's kind of like, wow, how do I diffuse that? And I think there's so many life lessons that we learn in a restaurant. But you know, ultimately too, and kind of going back to your original question with hospitality, I think one of the exercises that I've always done with team members is, you know, whether it's a pre shift or whatever, it's like, okay, let's name, uh, how many restaurants did you pass on the way to work? Right. And let's say a couple of good things about them. Now, when that door opens, that guest had every opportunity to go to one of those restaurants. But you know what? They chose us. They chose us. So let's make sure that they know that we're going to make sure that whoever in their party knows that they made the right choice. And it's got to be that level of mentality and excitement when a door opens. Not like, oh my God, I've got all this stuff to do. It's like that door, that person that walks in, and I bring that up more so now than ever, Troy, because of third party delivery, right?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm willing to get off of my couch, out in front of my TV and walk into your restaurant when I'm the lowest priority. I don't feel good about that.

Speaker B: Right, right.

Speaker A: And so I really think it's that constant training of, uh, when someone's there in front of you, they deserve your attention. And, uh, you gotta remember they chose us. And I don't know what it's like at your house too. It's like, even now, Roger, I still got to dinner a lot. And it's, it'll be like, what do you want to do for dinner? I don't know. What do you want to do? No, you choose. No, I'll choose. But if they pick you, they pick Pepper lunch. Right. It's like somebody, you need to make sure that you, that decision maker is right, that, that they made a good call to go to your restaurant. And when you do that, they come back over and over and over again.

Speaker B: So, yeah, I love that. You got to make, you got to make the person who chose your spot the hero for doing it. Right. They brought the spouse, they brought the family, brought the coworker, uh, they brought the date. Whatever they brought, make them look good. Right. They made a smart decision coming here, didn't they.

Speaker A: Yes. I love that prices are so expensive. I think guest expectations are higher than ever right now.

Speaker B: They are.

Speaker A: So, yeah. Got to get it right. But it all starts with that beginning, right?

Speaker B: Absolutely. Look, people like us in this industry, uh, I had a conversation with somebody just a little while ago that was saying, you know, I don't go out to eat as much. It's hard to go out to eat when you've been in this industry a long time. I don't. I love it. I love going out to eat. I. I go through these waves. I think we all do go through these phases where we're a little extra critical, a little extra. Oh, uh, come on. They could just do it a little bit better to just. Oh, geez. Oh, you know, the meal was perfect. Everything is great. And then they took too long to bring the check. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or they did everything amazing, but they didn't do that one last check in. For me, it's greeting and thanking the exit. Right. So please welcome me and don't let me walk out the. Don't let me have four or five hostesses, hosts standing at the lot at the podium, talking to each other. Right. Polishing, rolling, stacking, whatever they're doing, wiping whatever they're doing, and ignore me, walk out the front door, just say, thanks, goodbye, thanks. Have a great day. You don't even have to say thanks for coming in. Like, just have a great day. See you. Ah, you know, just acknowledge my exit from your space, you know, and I just think, um, yeah, it's just a lost. A little bit of a lost start, I guess, particularly in fast casual qsr, you know, at Pepper Lunch. And this is never an infomercial for Pepper Lunch, but we did something in January and we tested it till April. We rolled it out nationwide in April. We created a new position. We actually added a human being. We didn't replace the cashier. We reorganized our business and we actually added a sixth person to our business. And we. We know now that that added position has beyond paid for itself. We call it a hospitality host. Most people might think of it as a greeter or brand ambassador. It is both. And for us, I have to pound it every day. This is the most important person in the building. From 20ft away, before the door ever opens, their face is seen. They have an opportunity to smile, be grateful, be glad to see this person welcome them, ask them if they've been to Pepper Lunch before. Yeah, yeah, I come all the time. Oh, what do you normally like, like, engage with them authentically. Oh, My gosh. What's your favorite dish? You know? Oh, I usually get this, that or the other. Well, cool. Have you ever added mushrooms? Oh, my God. When you add mushrooms to that dish. Or my favorites, the garlic chips. Add the garlic chips to everything.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: You know, uh, yeah. Oh, you've never been here before. Oh, let, let me, let me explain to you what pepper lunch is all about. We want, want you to understand what you're about to experience here. Right. And we created this position and reorganized the entire front of the house so that we had time, we had opportunity to give more service, to be an elevated fast casual to do what no other fast casual does not do. Table touches and pre bus things authentically come around. We took the free pour soda machine away, put it behind the counter. Not because we didn't want people just drinking as much sodas they want. It's 40 cents. Who cares how much they drink? We wanted to create an opportunity for our employees to refill your beverage, stop at your table, show you, uh, some hospitality. So, you know, I love it. Pretty unusual, right? Adding labor to my business. Our average checks have gone up $5.50 by adding a kiosk. Our ordering went from across the counter, transaction typical ordering to kiosk only with a hospitality host greeter who's welcoming you and answering questions and guiding you. And our check went up $5.58. And our, our consumer, uh, scores like you referenced earlier have gone through the roof dramatically. And it was like overnight, like, I'm not joking, it was 30 days in, this started happening. So I love your approach. It's just get back to the basics of hospitality, humanize our industry, give young people a chance to excel and make sure they know that their job is incredibly important to the success of your business.

Speaker A: Yeah, I think it's great what you're doing. It's similar to what, uh, Hawaiian Roads is doing as well. And you know, Cameron, but they kind of done the same thing. It just High touch, right. And high tech aren't mutually exclusive. And I love the idea that we can take some of the tougher jobs away that people don't love doing in the industry and get them to be able to have that opportunity to focus on the guests just like you're doing, make them. That's hospitality. Right. And it's fast.

Speaker B: And Karen, if you don't use high touch and high tech are not mutually exclusive as the keynote title of your next keynote at the biggest conference this year, I'm gonna steal it. I'm telling you right now. And I'm gonna say, Karen said, and this is what we're trying to say. I love that. That's a great. You, uh, didn't do it on purpose. That was a great tagline because it is true. I mean, we're all trying to think about how do we make this high tech absorption in our industry, this adoption and utilization of technology, how do we make it more hospitable? How do you make 35% of your orders going out the door for delivery hospitable? Right. And I think there's a lot of analog, old fashioned, easy ideas that, that can make that work. We're actually about to shoot a series of videos. We just talked about it yesterday. Shoot a series of videos from me to our guests based on their frequency, their volume, their spend. I want to recognize our guests for their loyalty and their fandom of our brand. Uh, super easy. You shoot a bunch of videos, you put a QR code stick in the bag. I really want to take a moment, say thank you. It's not that hard. Karen, let's talk about the future. What are you excited about in our industry? What's coming next? What are you thinking about? What are you seeing when you're out at these conferences that you're looking at and saying, now that makes sense. I really like that that's going to have an impact. What are you excited about with the future of our industry now? Looking forward?

Speaker A: Gosh, uh, you know, first of all, I want to say this next generation of leaders, I think that they are stepping into the industry with a new level of energy. And you know, they, again, maybe we just talked about that high tech and high touch, they can deliver it. Right? They, they've grown up with the technology that least, you know, that I did not necessarily grow up with. And I think they're going to bring that uniqueness, uh, you know, whether, like I said, it's being willing to try different, you know, things with, with AI, with technology, with ordering. But they have the ability to make guests feel okay about it as well. Right. So I think first and foremost I'm just excited about this. These new leaders. I'm in a position with gleam, you know, about gleam, and you've been a, uh, great supporter and contributor, so we're thankful for that. But I get to mentor a lot of these younger, uh, you know, up and coming leaders and just to see the uh, enthusiasm and their willingness to try to figure out, uh, you know, what's coming next is really exciting for me. I also think that, um, um, it's going to be probably maybe the year of the franchisee. It's, it's been so interesting to watch the dynamics between franchisors and franchisees. And at the end of the day, as I look back over my career, franchisees own your brand. Whether you like it or not, they are the owners of your brand. We executives come and go. You heard the number of companies that I work for and trust me, when I was there I gave it everything that I had. But I didn't make that full time lifestyle commitment that I was single handedly going to put all of my finances into your brand. And that's what our franchisees do. And uh, so I think number one it's respecting the franchisees and uh, giving them, I always say to them, you have a voice, not a vote. Uh, and I think that that's okay because that's ultimately they will all come with a lot of different ideas. But I do think we're going to see uh, a bigger respect for the, for the franchise community and so I welcome that as well. That would be a couple of things that I would say off the top of my mind. I know a little different than probably what we normally talk about.

Speaker B: No, I, look, I love it. I agree. I'll go backwards. Uh, the franchisee thing, it's hard. You're balancing the mandates from above and the goals that are being set with the reality on the ground. And like anything, you have to get your franchisees on board, you have to get buy in. They have to have belief and they have to have, you know, they have to support you. And, and that's, that's a delicate dance and it doesn't always line up. And you know every franchisee group, and we work with only large multi unit groups, they have their own goals and their own ambitions and their own beliefs of how things can achieve their goals and your goals collectively. Right. But we're inextricably connected. So I, I agree. I, I might, I might be a little unique in that I tend to over index on the franchisee side. But you know, it's about balance. What, what is the balance between the, the guest, the brand's guest, the people who are serving in the stores, the franchisees and their employees which are very, very, very important to consider that entire ecosystem as a franchisee you includes all of their employees and then the franchisor's mission, goals, visions and things of that nature. It is, it is something that has to be really maintained in a balance. I don't uh, I, I agree with you. What you said about franchisees and the focus and the care and maybe them taking back a little bit of power in, uh, some, in some respects, it just has to be balanced. And when it's out of balance, you hear the horror stories, you see the executives walk out, you know, get walked out the door. Uh, and you see even worse now with lawsuits, obviously, and these kinds of things.

Speaker A: Yeah, you definitely, you definitely seen that. But I, you know, look, I, uh, I love working for a company that's got skin in the game, right? Because then, uh, when a franchisee signs up for your brand, they're not signing up for it to say, hey, I'm going to reinvent this entire thing. They're buying it because they like the brand, right? They like the operations, they like the systems and they like the management team. Right? You're buying into all of those things. You're hoping to go in and have smooth sailing with someone else doing the thinking. And I'm just going to execute this and I'm going to have a great lifestyle and a livelihood for my family. But then we have an obligation not to screw that up. Right? And as long as we don't. I find franchisees to be very, very supportive. You know, they always have their, you never know what hat they're going to wear, the parent, the child, whatever, uh, you know, and they get, they get to do that. But overall, if we run a great brand, they will follow suit and 95 to 99% of your franchisees will be absolutely delightful to work with. And of course, a happy franchisee is a growing franchisee. We're going to build your brand.

Speaker B: If your franchisees are coming up with ideas and they're doing things in their store, whether that's with their staff or, or with their customer or with their marketing, that's an engaged franchisee. That's somebody who cares, that's somebody who is invested in your brand. I think that's the person that most franchisors kind of roll their eyes at. Oh, uh, here comes another idea. Yes. Be grateful, because the best ideas in the entire franchise world, especially the restaurant world, came from the franchisees, guys. The Big Mac, the Blizzard, it goes on and on. Just about every iconic food item you've ever thought of. Much of the technology, much of the systems and processes around, Better Drive Thru and Kiosk and all these kinds of things. Franchisees came up with most of those ideas or drove most of those ideas. So I would agree. Karen, you said something at the beginning. I don't want to miss out on because uh, I've had a long time passion about young emerging leadership and especially entrepreneurship in our space. From 2015 to 2023, me and my firm only focused on the emerging brand builder. Whether there was franchise bound or corporate or a mixed model of some kind. But the franchise, the emerging restaurant brand, founder or founder group and I can only concur with you as loud as possible if you, uh, especially any of us at this executive level of these larger mid sized to larger enterprise brands, if you, I would say if you're over 50 units in the executive suite of any brand, make sure to go out of your way and find groups of these people, get around the 5 or 15, 10 unit emerging brand passion, passionate passion, passionate brand creator and builder. Because that is where the energy is, that's where the ideas are, that's where the challenge to the norms are happening. Right? They're not doing it the same way we grew up doing it. And as innovative as you and I are, still looking forward, we, we all carry some weight, some baggage, some tried and true foundational comforts that we don't want to let go of. And some of these folks are out here creating much bigger businesses much faster. They're much closer to their customer. Cameron at Holland Bros. I will call him out as well. I met him the first time I shared stage with him at RLC this year. This year. And we've stayed in touch, had him m on the show, we've talked. We're in a uh, networking group or a mastermind type group together. He's so impressive. He's doing things nobody's ever done in this industry. You know every single employee at Hawaiian Bros. Every full time employee, every HQ employee has fully paid health care benefits. Fully paid, not 80, 20, not 70, 30, not 90, 10. So who in the restaurant industry would have ever thought that we could do that? Well that's just math. He has decided and the team has decided that that is a benefit, that that matters more to the team than whatever else, right? Than the holiday party or the gifts or the bonuses. This is what matters to my employees and my fam, the families of my employees. And we're going to figure out a way to math that. And in his mind the ROI is pretty obvious. But to most people they wouldn't take that risk to wait for this roi. What's the roi? Higher productivity, higher uh, retention, greater resilience, more collaboration, happier employees. What happens, you build a better brand faster that that has a stronger foundation. So I, I want to concur with you on that. That you, young leadership in our industry, we all need to spend time with them, um, just to reinvigorate ourselves. Right. Just to get new ideas, just to be challenged on our norms.

Speaker A: Absolutely. Well said, Troy. Very well said. You know, I do serve on the board with Hawaiian birds, so I should disclose that. But, uh, you know, they also do a leadership profile on every team member as well. So you get to learn about your strengths and how you're wired and how you're going to interact with one another. At an entry level, uh, you know, team member level. Nobody's doing that.

Speaker B: That's incredible. I didn't know it was all the way down to entry level. Yeah, that's incredible.

Speaker A: Yeah, he's, uh, he's. He's really taken a different approach to the restaurant space.

Speaker B: There's mine Insights, if you want to. This is all you ever need to know. And go over to YouTube and check this out. I am showing you what, what Troy Hooper is in the primary color block. And isn't it interesting? It's not vertical. It's got a little bit of share between the red and the, uh, blue here. And look, whether you do insights or disk or Myers Briggs or any of these other systems, what you're talking about, it really gives us a language, uh, it gives us an understanding of each other. If I understand, if you know what this means when you come into my office or you talk to me on zoom, or. Or we're going to have a meeting. If you know that Troy's a collaborator who needs to collect details, but make decisions decisively and don't lead with emotion. I. I'm a very sentimental, very empathetic person. But don't walk in the room with, I'm mad. Susie's a bitch, you know?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Come in and say, hey, I need your perspective, your help. I'm having a communication issue with Susie. I don't understand where she's coming from. Well, did you know that Susie leads with. Leads with emotion? Because this is her personality, right. And this is how she processes and comes to the table. So we have to. We have to, uh, appreciate that. We have to honor that. Right. So I just think, uh, yeah, I think it's. It's pretty unique. I'm glad you referenced that because I think that, again, another unique opportunity to think about people first in our industry.

Speaker A: I coach that a lot, just, you know, especially with executives speaking headlines. Right. Back it up with one or two data points and then have the conversation. Right. Uh, and it changes the way people think about you as well. And I think that's really important. So. And again, maybe that's where the, the financial part starts to move in as well, I guess. Wish maybe earlier on that I had learned financial skills and because I think, you know, the earlier you learn them, I think, you know, obviously if you're a restaurant operator, you learn the P and L. Right. But you never see the balance sheet, you never see the statement of cash flow. Right. Those things in partnership tell a real story about every restaurant.

Speaker B: Most GMs don't. I know the owners and the leadership don't share it with the GMs. The GMs get a, uh, redacted high level. These are the five KPIs we want you to see and only ones we want you to care about.

Speaker A: Right, right, right.

Speaker B: And they don't get that education to

Speaker A: your point, but it's true. But if you look at that profit line and then you could say, wait, if I looked at the statement of cash flow, if I just looked at the first part of it, I would simply say is, was, were we profitable? Uh, you know, how much money did we make? Second section of it, what did we do with it? How do we spend it? Right. And lastly is, well, if we spent more than that, where else did we get the money? Did we borrow it? You know, did we go to the market? And I think just looking at those stories, when you start to look at some of the different companies out there, look, we've seen a lot of bankruptcies this year, this past year, right. And when you kind of go through those just statements, they simply tell a story. And I think when I tried to learn finance, it sounds silly, but I started a finance club for lack of a better, better way to do it because I wasn't getting exposure to the finance people in the company. But once I started that, I found that they were equally interested in learning as well. And we had one thing that we had to do. They had come with the, with, uh, the answer to this question. If you were the CEO or CFO of the company, what would you do with the cash? And it's so interesting to, you know, to see how those decisions have been made, you know. And uh, you know, a lot of things in the, in the rearview mirror don't look like they were such good calls. But I'm always proud when I see that the initial investment and most of the investment is going into growing the brand. And uh, typically that's what pays off.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think a lot of, you know, and a lot of the bankruptcies, you See are in. Some are in part for brands that just were abandoned and allowed to die on the vine and never had that. They haven't had that invigorating investment and attention. They've been basically just drained for a number of years. A lot of them are to your point on the finance side, bad decisions on the cash. I mean they got over leveraged. Right. They borrowed too much to grow too fast. Uh, they had this big thing in front of them they wanted to do and they over leveraged or you know, in the case of Red Lobster, a lot of people don't know that they simply sold the land and the building or the land out from under the buildings. Uh, and, and they're in doing that, they leased them back and their lease was multi x. I don't know if it was 3 or 4 x what the, the nut was to, to pay for the mortgage or they were paid off. They started paying rent on land they already owned. You know, but they just wanted to cash that cash out. And, and after a number of years that, that bubble caught up with them. Right. That.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: It was a house of cards and couple of them. There's so many mechanics to that. And uh, and m. Most of the people in our industry have no say in that. Right. There's one or two or three or a board somewhere making some decisions. And, and we have to do our best to work around those challenges.

Speaker A: Yeah. Anytime I hear sale lease back in a boardroom, my ears perk up. I'm like, we really don't. Are we that desperate for cash?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or do we really have to grow that fast? Right.

Speaker A: Yeah. Never, never. It never turns out well.

Speaker B: Karen, tell us a little bit about what you're doing, what you're working on. You alluded to it there. You're, you're coaching quite a lot. You're talking a lot about finance and you're doing a lot of finance education to leaders in this industry. And uh, besides that, and of course your nonprofit work with Glean Share share a little bit about what you're up to today and what, what you want people to know about.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, well, you know, obviously I would say I've been in my give back years. I think Greg Flynn said it at one time, you give your learning years, your earning years and I just add my give back or some people say returning years. And uh, that's what I'm trying to do now. I think if there's any, you know, opportunity to leave a legacy that makes the industry better, that was so good to Me, I have an obligation to do that and I have a passion to do it as well. So obviously I serve on my university board. Uh, I'm on seven nonprofits, which, which simply means I can't say no. And I'm on two restaurant boards, Wine Birds and, and Kura Revolving Sushi Bar. I'm so proud of the work that we're doing with Gleam and uh, again, Gleam. Gleam Network is the overall umbrella of a nonprofit, 100% volunteer. So every set that we raise goes to helping someone in the industry. Simply three programs we pair mentors and mentees. We paired over 600 mentors and mentees to work on one big thing that you feel that will help you move further in your career. Secondly, we do the lead events. I know you've been part of the lead events, Troy, and that's an in person thing. I can remember working at a restaurant, uh, early on in my career. Be one o' clock in the morning, I'm scrubbing floors and I'm thinking, seriously, no one even knows I'm here. You know, no one even cares that I'm here. Well, I think you get into a lead event and you hear someone like yourself, a CEO that starts early on in their career just like. And now you're a CEO of a company that they see the pathway to get there. They see that Troy Hooper is approachable. Right? They see the Jack Gibbons, the Emily Knight Williams, they, you know, the Amy Hobbs that you talked about, Jeff Alexander, Greg, would you all. Everyone is so, um, played over. They're so willing to step up and tell their story. And then you get notes from people that said, oh my gosh, I never knew it was a career like this. I can see myself doing that. So we love doing that. We're doing podcasts that are designed for the general manager to have everybody listen to before they're their, uh, leadership meeting for the week and then they have a discussion about it. So there's a way for them to develop their own team that's very, very simple. Again, very focused on that entry level emerging leader. And then, uh, obviously the last thing we're doing is cap. It's Pre Advancement program. It's a nine week boot camp where we take hourly team members and prepare them for a management role. We have several brands right now that are using it exclusively, exclusively for their development. It is such a great program designed by seven outstanding vice presidents with that leadership and development roles in major companies. And uh, it's all incredibly affordable and we raise enough money that if someone can't do it. We provide a way for them to uh, participate, uh, at no cost at all. So it feels so good to see our industry grow and get better.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's phenomenal. First of all, let me just say on behalf of all of us, thank you because no doubt one day I will hire somebody who went through one of these programs. Right. And that's the goal.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker B: That's the opportunity. And we want to pair people that recognize the value in that with as leaders to those emerging leaders. Uh, yeah, I just will say that I am participating in a lead event this year. Uh, speaking is not the right term. I am participating. I'm just one of the participants, uh, from this seat to bring that uh, perspective to the conversation in uh, that environment. And I'm absolutely ecstatic. I'm super humbled and really, really excited. Really. It's the thing I think I look forward to most this year. Don't tell all the other conferences and things. Um, you know, that's my passion. My background, uh, is building emerging brands, emerging teams and leadership development from the ground up. So I'm really excited to do that and I'm just grateful that you're leading in that space and providing that, that type of programming, uh, through this nonprofit. So uh, if you're listening to this and you're in the industry and you have the halves or your company has the opportunity, I would encourage you to look up the GLEAM network and reach out to Karen, uh, or Amy humm, uh, and others can, can share their story and uh, get you connected to, to participate and make uh, a difference and make a donation.

Speaker A: Thank you so much. I appreciate your support.

Speaker B: Karen Stutts. Uh, we're recording this just before the holidays, so happy holidays to you. Most everybody will listen to this. In the new year in 2026, we'll just kind of be getting off the ground. We'll start coming out of our caves and shaking off the hibernation and the holiday, uh, Glee. And we'll be Getting started in 2026. Leave us with one thought, one piece of advice or a tip or something for 2026 to kick us off.

Speaker A: Oh, well, uh, I would just simply say once again from where I, uh, talked about previously, let's do our part to speak with pride about the industry, about how great this industry is and that it can be a wonderful career. You know, like, like I said, um, I can't imagine in my lifetime I would have ever done anything differently than this. Uh, it has been. I will just simply say I am the American dream.

Speaker B: Karen, you are an absolute gem. You're incredibly humble. You're incredibly approachable. If anybody wants to talk to the former CEO and president, just about every brand you've ever cared about, thought about, or experienced, Karen is easy to find and she's so glad. Uh, I just seen her do it everywhere we go. So seek, uh, her out at the conferences. Seek her out through the Glean Network. Participate. I love it. Get involved. And, uh, thank you again, Karen, for being on the show.

Speaker A: That's a delight. Thank you, Troy. Happy holidays and Happy New Year.

Speaker B: Thank you for listening to the Pineapple Perspective. If you love today's episode, leave a review and a five star rating. I look forward to welcoming you back next time.