Pillow Cube, with Jay Davis and Will Beck, Ep 134

Speaker A: Foreign. Welcome back to the Nitty Gritty. This week we have the founder and CEO of Pillow Cube, Jay Davis, with us and his partner in crime, Will Beck. Great, great partner podcast. This one was for the fans of the entrepreneurial stuff. This one is excellent. Jay's got a really good story. He has done so many things in his young life. I don't know how old Jay is. Do you remember?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: Um, but the story of Pillow Cube is fascinating. Everything that kind of led up to it is fascinating. But to take something like a pillow where. I mean, we've all been to Costco, there's 6 million pillows for sale. That had to be kind of a scary industry to get into. But you take really good product mixed with really good marketing, viral content. Stuff that you will hear in his history and his story. He is very experienced with. And you can make a pillow and fully succeed. Blow up fast. I don't know that we would say fast, but. But a lot of work obviously involved, but he has had his hands in so many different things. There's so much experience, so much wisdom. Um, man, I really like this one. I was bummed that we had to end it when we ended it, but hope you love it. If you do comment, let us know how you like it. Subscribe, Share. We love you and we'll see you next week.

Speaker B: Welcome, Nitty Gritty. We are here for a new episode with Jay Davis and Will Beck of hello, Cube. So thank you fellows for coming in.

Speaker C: Thanks for having us.

Speaker B: And I will say the pillows are, uh, awesome. I'm super picky. I told Will he was asking me about pillows. I'm like. I'm like, a really, really picky pillow person.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, that's the worst thing about traveling for me is there is nothing worse than a hotel pillow. I've never had a hotel pillow. I'm like, oh, this is really nice.

Speaker A: They're the worst.

Speaker B: They suck.

Speaker D: Well, when you stay at a Motel 6, everywhere you go.

Speaker C: Hey, whoa, whoa, dude. Holiday scrap.

Speaker B: Yeah, like, all. I might be in a courtyard every now and then.

Speaker A: Like, come on.

Speaker D: If they don't have free breakfast, that's a good thing.

Speaker B: No, it's not. I don't get my money's worth.

Speaker C: Even the nice ones are.

Speaker A: Yeah, it doesn't matter because everybody fluffy.

Speaker C: And then you just sink in.

Speaker B: Uh-huh.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: What's with the feather crap? Like, every.

Speaker B: Who likes a puppy pillow?

Speaker A: Not me.

Speaker B: No one.

Speaker A: Yeah, like, at least do, like, half cotton, half synthetic fl. You know, the down pillows. Yeah, I don't know. What the thing is, do most people sleep on down pillows?

Speaker C: Uh, people. I think it's definitely shifting. We actually were on a flight with David, uh, Neilman. We were pitching him. He's like, I love my.

Speaker A: Who's David Neilman?

Speaker C: JetBlue, uh, founder.

Speaker A: Oh, okay.

Speaker C: Just like randomly sitting next to us on a Delta flight.

Speaker A: Oh, that's funny.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: JetBlue's always delayed flying on Delta.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And he was like, no, down. We're like, what are you talking about, man?

Speaker A: That's interesting.

Speaker C: You got enough money, you should upgrade.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, let's get, uh, away from the down, fluffy crap.

Speaker A: That's the thing. Is it just. I. I always wonder. It seems like it's five to one down down pillows in hotels. Oh. Uh, it's always like the only cotton ones are the ones that they have in, like, the closet.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like the spare bedding package that they have.

Speaker B: Like the decorative ones that you don't really know. What.

Speaker A: Yeah, I use it. Yeah, I use those a lot too, with the tow. So.

Speaker D: Towel.

Speaker A: Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I don't know what's on those decorative throw pillows. Yeah. So.

Speaker B: So, yeah, I'm excited actually hear about this a little bit. So, Jay, I want to know a little bit more about you. Like, where'd you grow up? Like, how did, how did this all come to be?

Speaker C: So, yeah, so I grew up in kind, uh, of half and half. Half Chicago, half Colorado.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: So, yeah, I still Bulls fan, still order Giordano's, uh. Oh, dude.

Speaker B: Freeze dried sending out.

Speaker A: Where in Chicago did you grow up?

Speaker C: Uh, just west of Chicago. So Naperville.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Yeah, right.

Speaker A: I sold alarms for like eight years in Chicago.

Speaker C: Oh, no way.

Speaker B: I did two summers in Chicago.

Speaker A: I love Chicago west suburbs too.

Speaker C: Chicago in the summer is like, unbelievable. And then you go in the winter and you're like, this place sucks. It's so bad. But like, fall, spring, winter or spring, summer, fall is just.

Speaker A: It's the only big city I like. I don't really like big cities, but I love Chicago.

Speaker C: It was a very ideal, kind of idyllic childhood of like, stranger things without all the monsters. So it was pretty great. I can't complain.

Speaker B: So started in Chicago and then moved to Colorado.

Speaker C: Yep. Then moved to Colorado. Was 10. Uh, lived in Colorado. Just kind of normal. Normal kid played basketball, football. Uh, Will was down the street. Never, Never met somehow.

Speaker B: In Colorado.

Speaker D: Yeah, I grew up in Littleton.

Speaker C: Yeah. And so.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: We were neighboring high schools. We have common friends. We went to like, the same dances. We're like, dude, how did we never. One time we played in a basketball

Speaker D: game against each other.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. Played like. I. I don't know. I. It's crazy that we never made the connection. But then became friends at byu, so that's wild. So came out to byu, uh, studied entrepreneurship and just kind of knew from

Speaker B: your parents, like, mom and dad, entrepreneurs.

Speaker C: Dad's an entrepreneur. Consultant. Uh, always. Most part. Probably half of my childhood worked for himself. Other half would work for bigger companies or bigger consulting firms. And then. Yeah. So. But I was never the kid. Like, I think a lot of entrepreneurs are. Like, I was selling potatoes door to door. Like, and that just wasn't me. Like, I was never, like, kind of that hustle. Like, I'm gonna go sell stuff. Um, Jay was busy trying to sell girls. Yeah. I'm like, hey, uh, like, pitching them to date me. Not I wasn't selling them on the black market.

Speaker D: Could go a couple ways.

Speaker A: That didn't really click with me. When he said selling girls, I was like, yeah, this isn't really.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Until you said the black market thing. I was like, oh, yeah, that could have been taken would have been a better word.

Speaker C: Yeah, that was, uh. Yeah, but that was just never. Never kind of my kind, uh, of path. But. But I think it was super, super interesting kind of how people arrive in entrepreneurship. But, yeah, just loved. I love talking about business. That was kind of what me and my dad talked about when I was a kid, like, either sports or business. And so it's just kind of always like, you know, this is this company's strategy. Because he was often consulting with, like, bigger companies, like Fortune 100 companies. And so I was just always like, oh, that's fascinating. Why do they do that? And why, you know, why do they make the products this way? So I've always loved kind of that business side.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Came to byu, studied entrepreneurship. Loved my time at byu. It was just so fun. Such a fun time of life. Met my wife there, got married. Uh, graduated in 08, which is a bad time to graduate. But, uh, got lucky, found a job at Vivint doing product development. And so interesting. Yeah. Yeah. Kind of kind of that, like, perfect timing of. It was, like, right when, uh, it was still Apex.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: I don't know if that's who you sold for.

Speaker A: That's where I switched over. Uh, I love those.

Speaker B: The blue bellies.

Speaker A: Yeah, the blue belly Science.

Speaker C: Um, so, yeah, it was just kind of that perfect time of, like, Apex was switching to, hey, let's stop selling other people's products, let's make our own. I, while still at byu, I was doing customer service for them. And then just, like, they had this product development position open, and so it was really great, like, amazing experience.

Speaker A: Todd, you got to see all that growth, too.

Speaker C: Yeah, that was a pretty exciting time. I was there during the Vivint rebrand. Uh, I threw out the idea to do two eyes. I'm just gonna claim that they originally were gonna sell it with an I and an E, and I was like, that's a horrible idea. So, but, yeah, like, just gotta be a part of that kind of whole experience and see kind of like Todd and those other guys there of, like, their ability to see something coming. Like, hey, we, uh. I was doing a lot of research about, like, security and stuff and just kind of was able to see a great entrepreneur. Like, okay, this is kind of what's happening in the industry, and how am I going to react to that and kind of get ahead of everybody. So really fun experience was there. Then I helped, uh, then I left and helped start a company called the Color Run, which was kind of that 5k with colored powder. We were the first ones and had, uh, a mission companion that invited me to come and help and one of the first employees and just super fun experience that went crazy. That was just like, what did you do for them? So, marketing, uh, product development, helping manage races. Like, it was everything. It was just wild. I mean, that company, like, even people in Utah don't know how fast that whole, like, it was kind of like 2011, they, like, end of 2011, they kind of launched. Uh, and then December of 2011, I joined, um, and it was just like, oh, we got a couple events open, and it went from, oh, we have a couple thousand people signed up for each event to, like, we have a hundred, uh, thousand people showing up to our website, and we have. What was it, 10,000?

Speaker B: Like, it just got super popular. Like, why, like, why did that catch so quickly?

Speaker C: I think it was a lot of things. I mean, that was kind of my first experience with, like, virality and explosive growth. But I think a lot of it was, uh, social media was ripe for it. People were, you know, those earlier days of Facebook, it was back when every time you posted something on Facebook, every single one of your friends saw it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So that was great. People were looking for Facebook, uh, or using Facebook is kind of like, here's cool things I'm doing. And so people were sharing, like, look at this funny video. You know, like, that's not. Now we Just argue on Facebook about politics. But, um. But, like, back then, it was like, hey, look, we were looking for social currency of, like, I'm in the know, I know cool things. And so even going to those events, I was like, dude, this is like, the powder gets in your nose. We called them. You'd get the rainbow boogers. Like, it's crazy. And even I've been to the Holly Festival. To me, it's just kind of is like, this is nuts, but it's great social currency.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so people were posting like, look what I did. Uh, and it was just going crazy. I mean, we really went from, like, how do we get more people to sign up? So we were opening events and selling out 25,000 tickets that were 50 bucks a piece in, like, an hour. Like, we were just. It was so crazy to see that explosive growth.

Speaker B: So when you look back at that, what was something that surprised you the most? Like, from the marketing side?

Speaker C: From the marketing side, I think, like, um, one is definitely that like, sometimes things just hit and you really didn't mean to do it. You didn't maybe engineer it. But it's also, I think, interesting as an entrepreneur to see that, like, a lot of those decisions that I think all kind of went towards, uh, making something successful are very kind of. You can call it luck or just kind of, like, you know, fortuitous that it happened a certain way. Like, I look at, like, the guy who started it originally wanted it to be like, a marathon, and I think it was, like, his wife and one of the other guys who was like, no, like, it really should be a 5K. Like, let's get people into running fun. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: No, you don't want me to do the half marathon lecture again.

Speaker C: A marath.

Speaker A: There's nodding your head.

Speaker B: There's an ongoing discussion about the need to rebrand a half marathon.

Speaker C: It's a good point.

Speaker A: Thank. Thank you. Everyone agrees with me.

Speaker C: I mean, you're basically a guy who's

Speaker A: never run in his life is the one that's complaining about that.

Speaker C: You're really upset about this.

Speaker A: I just think it's funny. Like, half marathon. I'm like, I ate a half of a cheeseburger. Like, it's. It just needs its own name. That's all I'm saying.

Speaker B: Just needs to reach.

Speaker A: It's still hard. There's still respect, but. Sorry, I'll shut up.

Speaker C: No, it's. We don't have half basketball games or

Speaker A: thank you, half hockey game to say that that's better than the cheeseburger.

Speaker C: There's a good analogy. But, yeah, it was just, like, crazy. Some of those decisions that were like, oh, man, if you'd done a different way, I don't think it would have had quite the impact. Um, and we see that with Pillowcube all the time. Like, there's stuff that's like, man, how did we kind of get to where something happened that was really, like, man, we were really lucky, or, you know, whatever you want to call it. But yeah, it was just this crazy experience of, uh, even Facebook, like, Facebook changed, I think, probably about a year in to that whole experience where every time someone posted, not all of their friends saw it. Or, like, early on with Color Run, we were going really hard after likes. Like, let's get as many likes as we can. And then a year in, it's like, oh, by the way, you have to pay for all those likes to see your posts. And so it's like, man, we spent so much time and money focusing on. But, like, to show you the scale, like, color run, in one year from launch, had 3 million likes. Like, it was just that fast. It was just going crazy. So it was a really fun experience. And kind of while I was doing that, I also started a YouTube channel with a friend, and those started. We started doing videos that were going viral. And so I just kind of fell in love with, like, man, I love this virality.

Speaker B: What were the YouTube videos?

Speaker C: Uh, so the channel was Scott DW. It was with Scott Wynn. We did, like, Fruit Ninja in real life, Kitten, uh, Air. Just, like, crazy stuff that was going viral. Um, and Scott's, like, an amazing cinematographer. And. But I was always like, he was fascinated in kind of like, the video world, potentially making movies. That was kind of like, the path he wanted to go down. And for me, it was always like, I love the idea of using this for entrepreneurship. Like, this is a tool in my tool belt of can you use these videos? Like, this is even, like, Color Run was like, pre any Harmon Brothers videos. This is before dollar Shave Club. Like, people were not using virality at the time to, like, launch businesses. It wasn't like, a common thing. So I just kind of fell in love with that whole process of, like, how do you get a bunch of people who've never heard of something to share something, talk about something, grow something? And that's kind of been the focus of the last, like, 12 years, 11 years, is just using those tools. Like, how do you. How do you create a household name or, uh, a household brand?

Speaker B: How do you make everyone want to talk about it. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker A: Well, I'm being good at that. I was thinking about that today. Because you've got creatively. Did I say that right?

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker A: Like, I'm convinced that you could pretty much just start anything right now, like, even if it's a super saturated thing. But if you're good at that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You'll immediately be successful.

Speaker C: That's what's even funny about pillowcube. Like.

Speaker A: Well, that. That's what I was going to kind of segue into is like. Yeah. Uh, pillows.

Speaker C: Yeah, it was. It was about the last thing we wanted to do.

Speaker A: Well, that's, uh, Like a part of me was wondering, like, did you just, like, throw a dart at the board? Like, let's just pick like a random thing that we all use every day. Soda or bottled water.

Speaker D: Well, like, part of the process is something everyone uses all the time.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker D: That's part of the formula. Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. And it's like, but how do you. I mean, you think of the big dogs and the whole bedding. Yeah. Mattress, pillow space. Like, there's some big boys.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But then you look at like all the purple and all these companies. Casper, all these, you know, male. I mean, there's some innovation there with, like, mailing to your house, but that's not what's making them popular. What's making them popular is it's just direct to consumer. But their, their social media and their video stuff is. It's hilarious.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. And then the product is good, obviously, but I think you could almost jump into anything now, no matter how, like, you could peanut butter. And if the peanut butter tastes like Jif, you could be huge just by having great social media and great, uh, you know, virality, as you call it.

Speaker C: No, that was really interesting with pillow. So we had creatively, kind of. After I did some other stuff, did some other event, companies decided I didn't want to do events because they're the worst. There's so much work.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Uh, and. And so eventually I started creatively.

Speaker A: So what is creatively? A quick little summary for the listener.

Speaker C: So it's like a marketing agency that we focus on this whole process of, like, how do you get viral kind of explosive growth?

Speaker B: Is it all around, like a physical product?

Speaker C: Uh, no. We've done software apps. Non product. Non physical products. We definitely do mostly physical products because I think it just works kind of one of our keys is like, we want to demonstrate how it makes a difference in people's lives. So software can be harder.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker C: Um, but we've done like, we did a sweater. Uh, if you've seen the sweater investing app that's gone really crazy, we launched that.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Um, so yeah, like, we do people sweaters in Boulder. We do people in New York, Louisiana, San Francisco, Miami. Um, but like here in Utah, we launched or really early kind of started working with Kizik. Uh, Gab.

Speaker A: Uh, we're all wearing our Kizzix. We just got them today.

Speaker C: Love them. Will's wearing Kizzix.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Um, Homie Owlet. So we've had like a really good run of being able to pick like, hey, this is ready for explosive growth. And so that was kind of the natural process we started. I started it five years ago and we were just kind of like finding things that were like, I know I can blow this up.

Speaker B: So you just really casually named a lot of really awesome brands. That was super casual.

Speaker A: Like I was a humble flack.

Speaker B: He wasn't being humble, but like, are you extremely picky? Because most like creative agencies, marketing agencies, they will help whoever can pay them.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. And so, and they don't have that type of track record. So either you have like a thousand that you didn't mention and you just kind of cherry picked a couple or

Speaker A: you kind of just really good, hit it out of the park. He turns them into big brands.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, that's, that's part of the question. Like how, like, what is this?

Speaker C: No, uh, it's a really good question. So that, that's kind of what happens. Like, we started doing work with people. We were really picky. There was definitely ones that we picked, but like, that we picked that didn't work. But I would say, like, most of them have done well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so as we grew, we started to kind of have that challenge of like, okay, there's other agencies that just get to a point where you're like, hey, we'll take anybody. Uh, that's like one route we could go is like, okay, look what we've already done for these amazing brands who are now growing and blowing up now. Let's just do work for anybody. Yeah, that wasn't appealing to us. The other idea was like, you know, do we try and create some other service or something that can kind of appeal to the people we don't think will blow, uh, up and kind of separate it out.

Speaker B: But is the whole service like virality, like we're going to get you to go viral? Is that essentially like you're going to launch the brand that way? Is that kind of the idea?

Speaker C: Yeah. Like how do we go grab attention, get people to know who we are? Get like, uh, tons of awareness, but awareness that actually, like, sticks. Yeah, like that kind of. I mean, it blows me away with Pillow Cube. But, like, Will and I will go to. We went to LA a week and a half ago and we're like at Lululemon talking to the girl and she's like, what are you guys doing? We're like, well, we own this like, side sleeping pillow company. She's like, pillow Cube. And we're like, yep, that's it.

Speaker B: That's awesome.

Speaker C: And like, just everywhere, like people just have seen. I mean, we have hundreds of millions of views on the video. Like 450, I think now. And so 700. 700. Okay, well looked. So there's just, there's just crazy awareness. So that's essentially what we're saying. Like, hey, as you're trying to build this brand, if you fit this model of like something that most people use. So, like shoes, uh, you know, like, a lot of people have babies. Um, there's just those things a lot of kids people have, teenagers that need a phone. So we look for those products that like, this can be a household name. Like, it has enough size. Uh, but then how do we demonstrate it in a really fun, unique way? We were. You start getting people to be like, oh, I know what that is. And so, so that was what was interesting. We were kind of debating this, like, okay, as an agency, you kind of can't scale this because at some point we're going to hit a max of like, how many cool brands there are.

Speaker B: Sure.

Speaker C: Um, and even now, like, creatively is talking to just so many of the, like, coolest brands out there. Um, and so what we kind of came to as a decision was, okay, we can be picky by doing some of our own stuff. So let's start one, investing in some of these brands so that we become an owner with them. Uh, so we, like the first one we did that with was Ann Collar. If you've seen the Ann Collar shirts that are water resistant and stain resistant. And so we did that with them with a bunch of others. Sweater. We were one of the, uh, investors. And then the other thing we said was like, hey, let's start our own. Like, let's start something. And so we started talking about tons of ideas. I was like, oh, let's do this, let's do this. And I just kind of like, casual. Like, this was an idea. This pillow idea was an idea I had when I was like 10 years old. I had a buddy whose mom was Japanese, and she told me about Asian pillow boxes, and I was just like, oh, that's a crazy idea. Uh, and even, like, six or seven years ago, I was like, maybe I should do, like, a wood box. Because that's, like, what she told me about is, like, a lot of cultures. Tongans, Samoans, um, a lot of Pacific Islanders, but, like, a lot of people in Asia. South Koreans have, like, a. Like, a bag almost that they fill with buckwheat that's in the shape of a cube. So there's a lot of cultures that.

Speaker B: And that's what uses their pillow.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's their pillow.

Speaker B: Really?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Wow.

Speaker C: So this friend, her mom, like, she'd slept on a wooden box wrapped in a towel. Like, that was their pillow.

Speaker D: Is that where you set that towel trick from? Was.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: No, but it's a good one. That's crazy. So they sleep on something. It's hard.

Speaker C: Yeah. Like Chinese. Uh, people, like, do not like soft mattresses, Soft pillows. Like, they like things that kind of more ergonomic and kind of fit their body. So that was like, I just threw this idea out, and I was like, I don't know. I don't know if this idea, like, but I've been thinking about it forever. Like, any sofa that has that, like, right height of armrest, like, if you're a bigger dude with broad shoulders, like, you've laid on a sofa like that, you're like, dude, this is way better than pillows. Yeah. You know, for sure. So, yeah, it was just this idea, but it was literally, we were like. We worked with mattress companies. We were always getting pitched by mattress companies that we're like, we do not want to go in that space. It's so crowded. Uh, we've done work for some of those brands. Like, it's just so hard. And so it was kind of like.

Speaker B: Well.

Speaker C: And so we kept talking about ideas, and we didn't have anything else. I was like, let's just do a Kickstarter. Like, let's just see what happens. And so we had some downtime for the agency one week, and we're like, let's just kind of do everything this week. And so, like, the designer made a brand, and we just did it really quick and launched this Kickstarter. And it was like, oh, cool. Like, it did. I think it did 40 grand on the Kickstarter, 120 grand on the Indiegogo. Like, oh, that's nothing crazy. Like, and then just kind of let it do its thing. Like, we'd all work on it at that point.

Speaker B: I mean, that's just conceptual. There's no product. It was all just this idea.

Speaker C: It was like, one. So I had, uh. I had taken a couple foam samples that someone had sent us that was, like 12 by 12 by 3. And I'd taken two of them and laid down was like, oh, that pillow is amazing. Like, I'd always thought that foam just wasn't firm enough. And so I'd taken that, and I used spray glue, and I, like, sprayed those two pieces of foam together. And then I had a seamstress, for, like, 50 bucks, make us, uh, a cover for it. Uh, and then we just started, like. I just started, like, having friends like, hey, lay down on this. Tell me what you think. And people were like, that looks really stupid. Did you make this yourself? It looks really dumb. And then people lay on it and be like, whoa, that's, like, really comfortable, though. Like, I am shocked how nice that is. And so I liked that. Like, that connected for me of, like, it looks stupid, but when you try it, it's, like, unbelievable because you're like,

Speaker B: oh, we can make some good content around this.

Speaker C: Like, it looks dumb. It looks weird. It's shocking. Uh, and then we made, like, 20 samples. And this was, like, before the Kickstarter, but we, like, made 20 samples and gave them to friends and those friends and family. Like, I just called them up. I was like, hey, I only have 20 samples. I need them back. Uh, and they all, like, lied about, like, oh, I don't know where it is. I'm like, oh, like, could you look for it? And they're like, well, can I, like, keep it for one more week? And I, like, was like, oh, we're onto something.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, and that's now become, like, part of what I do with other products that we're testing and trying. And, uh, is I give it to people and then just ask like, hey, could I have that back? And if you were even new products for pillowcube, if you were like, yep, here you go. You're like, uh, obviously that wasn't that great. But when people are like, no, can I buy it? Could I keep it? Or they lie about it.

Speaker B: Like, that's really interesting because I think we. What a cool test. Yeah, what a cool test to do.

Speaker A: I want in. I want in on the testing. I want to be a beta tester.

Speaker B: Yeah, I want to be a beta tester for all this stuff.

Speaker C: We'll put both of you on the group. We have a. We have a Beta group that we. That we use for testing. But that's, like, something I've. I've learned. Like, I think a lot of times as entrepreneurs, you ask people, like, you know, you give them to your friends and family, like, did you like it? And they're. They're like, ah, what do I say? They don't want to hurt your feelings. They don't know what to really say. But then sometimes, you know, you get people who go way too far in the, like, let me analyze your business. And you're like, well, who are you to do that? Um, and so for me, it's really just like, all I want to know is, do you want to keep it? Because I don't care. Because even people were telling me, like, dude, that space is so crowded, you don't want to go into it. Um, but I was like, yeah, but the product kind of blows people away. So it was enough that we said, let's just launch the Kickstarter. Let's see what happens. And we really, like, for that first year of Pillowcube, creatively, we were super busy. Like, we just kind of let this do its thing. We were investing in all these new brands. Uh, and Pillocky was just like, I will still remember. I would, like, call Will and be like, dude, we're making, like, $1,000 a day.

Speaker D: He was pumped about crazy bucks.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And it was just nuts. And then it was like, dude, now we're making 2500 a day. Now we're making 5 grand a day. Now we're making 10 grand a day. And it just kind of kept going up and up and up. And. And it hit a point, like, uh, probably around five to ten grand a day, where I was like, okay, this is like, something. Yeah, we're making ten grand a day on this.

Speaker B: And you weren't really putting much into it.

Speaker C: Like, we were putting. Luckily, uh, like, creatively had probably 20 employees at that point. So, like, everyone would work on it a couple hours a week. Um, it was like, we're all.

Speaker B: Creatively. Did they either have ownership in it, or is it just another one of the projects that they were, like, paid to work on?

Speaker C: So everyone who had ownership, uh, and creatively did have ownership in Pillar Cube. I just kind of transferred that over. But, like, everyone, like, there were rewards, and we were using some of that for, like, like, oh, let's go do a fun thing as a group. And, uh, so people were excited about it too, because it was like, hey, like, now we have two businesses that are working. Um, but yeah, everyone was like super pumped about it. They did an amazing job of just like taking ownership. And that's cool. Everyone was just working on it, but it was such an interesting. And I actually think it's um, like a whole kind of new model of entrepreneurship. I think typically we have like one or two founders who get into something and they're just like obsessed with that thing and so focused on it. And a lot of times what we see, because we usually don't from like creatively standpoint, it's why we started investing. But like, usually really early is tough for us because we're getting in and it's like you don't really have money yet. You kind of haven't proven out your product yet. You haven't kind of tweaked it and fine tuned it. Um, but another thing I noticed is like you often have two or three kind of founders and there's not enough for them to do. And so they kind of just like are, ah, bulls in China shops. They're just kind of like breaking stuff. And you're like, dude, just chill out. It's just gotta. Naturally, there are things, even with the viral explosion and the viral growth, there are things that just naturally take time and happen over time. And so that was something that I saw with Pillowcube. Like, no one was doing that. Like, we were busy. And so it was like once a week we were coming together, like, oh, uh, we got to do that. Let's fix that, let's change this. And then as agency people, we are very accustomed to working on 50 things at once. And so it was kind of like, okay, this week I did two or three things. We made these changes. Here's what happened when we made those changes. And so it was like a very emotionless, like, we're not like, oh my gosh, is my baby. It has to work. It was like, oh, that didn't work. Okay, let's not do that again.

Speaker B: So how did you guys like transition into physical products? I mean, because you guys had been in services, right? I mean, everything you had done was kind of service based. Products is very different.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: So did you have someone as part of the team who was like either oversaw that piece or did everyone just kind of pitch in?

Speaker C: I mean, I did a lot of that at Vivint, so that I definitely like kind of use some of that experience. But yeah, like, a lot of, A lot of it was us learning too. Like, there was a lot of things that I think was beneficial of both us knowing it enough that we could kind of get stuff done, but then also like doing things that people were like, hey, no one does that. Um, um, like what? Oh, just. I mean, the idea in general, like, everyone in the mattress space thought it was stupid. They're just like, that's such a dumb idea. Like, that's not how pillows are made. Like someone from one of the big bedding companies is like, do you not realize, like, no one makes a pillowcase that fits that? And I was like, dude, that's awesome. But they're like, no, now you, like, there's going to be like pillow cube cases and non pillow cube cases or like cube shaped pillowcases and non cube shaped. And I was like, yeah, but that's great. Like we'll be the only ones who sell those. And so there were just a lot of things that like, industry people saw as dumb. Like, oh, that's not how that works. No one does it that way. Like cutting the most expensive thing. Like, this is the funniest. We always get this comment like, it's just a block of foam. That's. So why is it so expensive? The most expensive way to make a pillow is out of a solid block of foam. Like most pillows, when you get shredded memory foam pillows, what they're doing is they're taking the scraps left over from making any furniture, you know, seat cushions, mattresses, and they're just cutting it up in a giant wood chipper, like a legit $10,000 huge wood chipper. Uh, uh, and that's how they make shredded memory foam mattresses. So you're just getting all these scraps of stuff left. And so there were a lot of people who are like, oh, it's so, you know, you can sell a memory foam pillow. Like the MyPillow. We've like talked to suppliers. Like that costs like a dollar to make and they're selling it for 60. Um, our stuff is really expensive. Like we have much lower margins, but it's just a killer experience. Experience for people. So. But there's just a lot of that stuff that we just didn't know. And so we were just like, oh, let's try this. But as, as time's gone on, we've brought in more experts of like, hey, how do we add to kind of that team and roster of people so that we can keep that? Hey, we're willing to do stuff that no one else is willing to do. Uh, but at the same time, like, not, you know, there were smart things we did. There were also dumb things of like, oh, you're sourcing that through this factory. That's the wrong group. Or you're. You know, we at one point were using kind of a factory that really was just outsourcing to a bunch of other people and then they were just having it all shipped to them, assembling

Speaker B: it like an agent almost.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: So there was smart and dumb stuff that we did.

Speaker D: Sure.

Speaker B: So Will, were you involved on the creatively side or did you just come as part of Pillow Cube?

Speaker D: I'm just here for the Bud Light. Uh, no, I. Jay and I have been friends since college and so we've always kind of done like some partnerships in business and helped each other with different businesses. I had a wealth management business actually, and, um, I helped him a little bit with some influencer stuff. I worked with a lot of influencers on the wealth management side and just kind of really understood how that business worked. And then when pillowcube started to take off, he's like, hey, help me come run some of this influencer piece and help me with some of the kind of growth and social media stuff. And so that's when I hopped over and did a lot of that too.

Speaker B: Interesting. So what are you. Is that you're full time on the marketing side then or.

Speaker D: Um, yeah, I mean, full time's kind of a funny word. Cause like, Jay and I own three or four or five or six businesses together. And then also I still have my financial planning, wealth management practice.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker D: And, uh, so. But yeah, I do a lot of like kind of that influencer piece. Getting pillows to, you know, famous people and then trying to talk them into posting about it is one of my, like, strong suits.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Bill's like the king of just building relationships with people that I think, I think like we were even talking about this on the way over that I think a lot of entrepreneurs take too much of like a short term greedy mentality with relationships. And from day one I've been like, well, just like, make relationships for us that we'll be able to leverage and use and hopefully give to them as well and create this really like, great symbiotic relationship with people that will benefit us as entrepreneurs for 20, 30 years. Like, and that's what Will's been able to do, is just meet people that it's like, hey, this is what we're working on right now. But like, we want to be friends and work on stuff. And so it's been amazing to see who we're having conversations with about investing. And hey, we can send deals your way And I think that that's important for entrepreneurs. It's easy to get in this mentality of meeting people and be like, what can I get from you right now? Uh, and one of the best things I've learned from Will is we just give and give and give. And, uh. And to the point where people start being like, hey, could I, like, please do something for you? Like, one of the most famous artists in the world, his DJ the other day said, like, we were going to send him something, a new mattress. And he was like, yeah, but can I get you tickets to our, like, tour? Please? Like, you guys just keep giving me stuff. And so I think that's something I've learned from Will is like, just give. And the people who just always take. Like, you kind of learn. Like, okay, that's the person who just always takes. But, like, most people, it's amazing to me how they just want to pay that back. And then we just keep giving and

Speaker B: everyone is helped from someone. Right. At some point. And so paying it forward.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I tried talking to people into doing, like, big family parties last week so I could, like, do something back. It's that exact same thing. Yeah, it's just like, um, I think I've taken the last 10 things, you know, or 10 appointments or whatever. Like, there's this doctor buddy of mine that I'll text or whatever. And. And it's funny. Like, I think you're totally right. I think most people are good like that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: They want to give them.

Speaker A: They want to.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Pay it back. There's definitely some that don't, though.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker C: And you learn that by giving, and then you kind of realize, like, oh, uh, that person is just someone who is. In that way.

Speaker D: You know, who are the people I want to be around with?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Are like, quality, good, caring, generous people. Like, you learn, and then those are the people you keep giving and taking care of and.

Speaker A: Right. And you can tell pretty quick.

Speaker C: Uh, usually.

Speaker A: But, yeah, that's cool. That's interesting.

Speaker C: I think it's. I love getting to the point. Me and Will are this way, and we joke about this. Like, I love hitting a point with a lot of people where you've just, like, stopped keeping track.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: It's like, literally, if that person called me and was like, hey, I'm 10 hours away and my car broke down. I need you to come get me. You're like, yeah, I'll be there in, uh, 10 hours. It's like, who do you have? Like that? And so. And I think that's Hard when you're starting out because you're. If you didn't grow up in the entrepreneurial world, from the sense of, like, knowing VCs. Like, I didn't know any VCs in college. I didn't know any investors, and that was really hard. Part of trying to be an entrepreneur, uh, is you just don't have access to those people. Like, you can do pitch competitions. But, um. But I think that where my mentality shifted was just looking at people more like, hey, just get to know them. And then that stuff just naturally happens. I like when friends of ours are, like, so creatively, like, be willing to do a campaign for me. Because you never say anything. I just don't want to pitch you.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: On it.

Speaker A: You know what you have to ask. Yeah, you have to ask.

Speaker C: So anyways, I think that's a good

Speaker A: lesson for everything, right? Like, yeah, you've got to ask for help. You got to ask for. You know, it's like, squeaky wheel gets the grease.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: And so it's not that people aren't willing. This is marriage advice, too, folks. Write this down.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker A: Especially.

Speaker D: What are you asking for?

Speaker A: Especially for the wife to the husband. We can't read minds. Like, if you want us to do the dishes. I can't read your mind. Just say you can ask me.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I'll say yes. But generally, it's like, you have to figure it out on your own to get the points.

Speaker D: What are you asking your wife for?

Speaker A: Oh, uh, you know, actually, I'm not asking for anything. I have no problem asking. Uh-huh. It's generally the other way around. They kind of want you to pick up on signals.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm not very good at that. And so anyway, no, it works for. It works for building companies as well.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, it's true. Even today, I had someone come in and say that.

Speaker A: That's why I say it's a good life lesson.

Speaker C: So true. I had someone come in one of our. He has equity. And it was just like, hey, I want to be a part of this other thing. Like, oh, cool. I was like, oh, like, did I do something wrong? To, like, no, you just never asked. So. And. And I think it is. It's like, it's totally fine to just, at some point, just say, hey, do you want to do this? And so. But it's really, like, it really does blow me away. And I think that's what. Also, as a young entrepreneur, you kind of forget is that this is, like, a long process. Like, every time I talk to students. I'm like, dude, I want to be an entrepreneur for 50 years. Like, that's my goal is, uh, that in 50 years, from the time I graduated college, I'll still be investing, being an entrepreneur, starting things. So when you think of that as your timeline, instead of like, I feel like every college kid is like, I need to have, like, a massive exit in the next four years. It's like, dude, that's just not realistic. Like, the Zuckerbergs, the. The Snapchat guy. Um, that is so the exception. Not even, like, the exception. It's like, well, in the true section,

Speaker A: it's like lottery odds.

Speaker B: Even the people that get the exits, most of them are more unhappy afterwards.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Because now they have this massive void in their life.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And then everything spirals. Like, it's very common. I mean, look at. I mean, you've seen this in the money world, and a lot of people that have sudden inflows. I mean, all of a sudden, they don't know what to do with themselves anymore. So you have to love the process. You have to love the idea of what you're doing. Right. And not wait for this one. Not work to this one moment, because once that moment happens, it's just going to let down.

Speaker A: Well, if it's about the moment, you'll probably never succeed anyway.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, you've got to be passionate about whatever it is that once I get there, this.

Speaker B: Then I'm going to be happy. Uh, once this happens, then everything then. Then I'm. I'm successful once I've had an exit or I'm successful once I've raised money. And then, like, once they do that, it's like, oh, that's just like a thing. Like, there's really not significance around that.

Speaker A: And what you want is fluid. Right. M. Like, every few years we grow up, we experience different things, and what you want changes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so to think like that right out of college, it's like, it's probably going to change.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: For sure.

Speaker A: And I mean, you're going to. I didn't find barbecue until I was, what, 34?

Speaker C: Really?

Speaker A: I never even cooked a thing. So it's just like, you just kind of never know.

Speaker C: At one point, you're probably like, man, the idea of having my own restaurant would be insane.

Speaker A: Yes. That's funny, because that's part of my story was when the guy that taught me barbecue called, and it's like, hey, do you still want to open a restaurant someday? It was like, well, yeah, I think that'd be cool. You know, it wasn't like. It wasn't like, uh, it was pipe dream right at that point. And so. But after going down and cooking with them, it became more realistic. But even then, I came back from Utah, and if it wasn't my cousin calling me and saying, like, here's money. Let's open a restaurant. I don't know that I ever would have.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: So, I mean, yeah, like, what you want? You. I like what you said about being an entrepreneur for 50 years, because it's just like, you know, you want to build things.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But it's just like Pillow Cube. Even when you started pillowcube, you didn't really start Pillow Cube.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It just kind of took a life of its own.

Speaker C: You know, I was literally talking to Jess on Saturday at the game, but we were talking about that, like, there's a point in your. She was like, the. The one of the first months for mixers was just like, oh, my gosh, like, we're making money.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: And that was crazy to her. And same thing with Phil Cube. Like, there's a time where you're like, I can't believe people are buying something I created. And that will shift. And so if you don't love that process, because all of a sudden, it's going to be like. We were also talking about how early on the Shopify Ding was like, better than Instagram or any social media. It was like, oh, my gosh, we got another sale.

Speaker A: Dopamine.

Speaker C: Dopamine, yeah. And then over time, that, like, I turned off the chime because it started to become like, uh, ugh, I don't want it. And something that, like, money, excitement, blah, blah, blah. More money. No. Um, but, like, it does shift, and you have to be really in love with the craft and the process of doing it, because that thing that, like, what I would say is like, that early hit of like, oh, we made a sale can, uh, become just like, an empty. Like, all you're pursuing is this, like, empty kind of reward from, like, approval from others. Um, and so I think that's what's so interesting about entrepreneurship is, like, if you really want to make money, there's so many better ways to make money.

Speaker A: For sure.

Speaker B: So true.

Speaker A: Well, and it still requires, as much as we've kind of talked about Pillow Cube kind of having a life of its own to start.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: It still required passion.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, it still required you believing, like, you had this idea. I mean, it's kind of cool. You have the idea years and years before you actually put some thought into it and you liked the product. Like, that's still a huge part of, at least I would say, in the consumer goods world. Right? Like, yeah, you can have great videos, you can have great content, you can have a great network, but it still has to hit. People still need to like it. Yeah, right.

Speaker C: I think people typically, and I think that's again, something you learn just from experience. But, like, you get past that point where, where you're not looking for a silver bullet of like, oh, just great marketing can do it. It's like, no, no, it is multiple things. It has to be, uh, more than just. And often, like, just a killer product is also, like, you have to do more than just Right. Uh, the one thing. And so I think that's what's hard, uh, about entrepreneurship is there is no, like, secret hack. There's no, like, silver bullet that is just like, oh, now and then you become rich and famous and you get all this praise. It's like, and that shouldn't be the goal. Like, it really is so fun. Like, the, the thing that still blows me away is when we hear people who, like, Will talks to. Uh, we launched a new product and Will was just calling up people who bought the product like, hey, like, why'd you buy, like, what. What was the motivation? And just the stories of, like, people who are like, oh, we had neck pain for 20 years and I wasn't able to sleep. And, you know, then all of a sudden I buy the pillow cube and, like, my life changed. Like, you literally changed the quality of my life. To me, that still is like, the best, the best feeling.

Speaker B: Like, are you like, full time pillowcube now or are you still running? And creatively, like, how do you, how do you balance that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I don't know.

Speaker D: Same as my story, I think. Right? Like, he's just running like six things and got a big team and everyone's chipping in and doing their part.

Speaker C: And yeah, I think, I think I've embraced the. I don't know if you've read Rocket fuel, but like, 100%, like, I'm a visionary. That is who I am. That's where I'm happiest is coming up with vision for things. And I really like delegating to people.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, I always, like, jokingly tell people, like, here's like, the worst micromanager and I'm the flip side of that. But there are negatives to that too. Yeah, like, there's negatives to being micromanaged, but there's also Some pros like you get told exactly what's expected of you. Here's what I want from you. Um, and maybe I'm not the exact flip of that, but.

Speaker D: No, you are.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm very like, I don't know, try it. Figure it out. Do it. And so people who love autonomy and who love, like, I'm not going to be given hardly any direction at all, really thrive. And people who are. Who are wanting more, like, hey, what should I do? It's like they almost always hate the. Hate working with us just because it's like, dude, we're just not that group. We're just a group of guys and girls who kind of like, do our own thing and. And we collaborate and we, like, we love working together. Um, but there's not a lot of hand holding at all.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that's cool because you're putting faith in your people too.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Which, I mean, you're obviously probably hiring smart people.

Speaker C: Yeah, there's.

Speaker A: And I mean, that's got to make them feel like. I mean, I think my default mode here is that way. Just. But, uh, I don't know that it's so much that as much as just I like my freedom to kind of come and go as I please, and it's really nice to be able to delegate that stuff out. But.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's funny, the more I hear you talk, the more I don't think of this as a personality relation. Just like Bronco Men in hall comes to mind. Like, I think he loves coaching teams that need to start over.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And, like, rebuild. Like.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It almost sounds like that's your happy place is creating, building as soon as it gets to humming next thing.

Speaker C: Yeah. No, it's. It is a hundred percent. Like, I love that early process. And I think that's another part of being an entrepreneur or being a creator is you have to really embrace who you are.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, like anytime you're kind of, uh, especially as an entrepreneur, it's so easy to look at other people and be like, why? Why am I not like that?

Speaker A: That's a really important thing that you just said. Uh, I struggle with that a lot sometimes.

Speaker C: Yeah. And, oh, I think every single one of us looks at. Like, I look at every single person on my team, I'm like, dude, I wish I was good at that. Like, there's things Will's good at. Josh, uh, on our team's like, this amazing designer, like, just unbelievable. And I'm always like, dude, I wish I was good at design. Like, he Is. And he can just sit and work in a room by himself for nine hours. And I, like, can't sit still for 20 minutes. I'm like, 20 minutes of email. I'm like, okay, I need to hang out with the person. And so, like, I look at that. I admire that. But I'm like, but that's also not me.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: And, uh, I had an early boss who was always like, dude, you'd be so amazing if you could just be detail oriented. Like, if you could combine that with who you are, you'd actually be, like, world class. And I'm so glad I didn't listen to that advice. That instead I embrace fully who I am. And I hired people who are detail oriented or surrounded myself with detail oriented people. And we together as a group, we're, like, great at that. And that's been a really fun part of both creatively and Pillowcube and all the other businesses is like, you can have someone or you can have an organization that is good at things that I'm really bad at. Uh, and I think that that's also what's hard about getting started, because you're wearing all the hats and you're often wearing the hats you're bad at.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and so.

Speaker A: But it also teaches you a lot about you can do anything if you have to.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I think that the people you hire to take over those spots respect you ultimately more because they know that you could jump in and do it if you have to.

Speaker C: Yeah. That's actually one of the things I love about David Nealman, who we were talking about earlier, is the founder of JetBlue. Like, he would fly on flights and, like, do the drink service and do the. Be kind of a flight attendant and walk around and talk to guests. Like, I think you can never disconnect

Speaker A: from, like, stay in touch.

Speaker C: Hey, I know how to do. You know, I know how to pack pillows. I know how to ship pillows. Like, being able to learn those things, I also think gives you a lot of, as a leader, gives you a lot of respect for the people who, like, man, we were asking people to come here and for nine hours in a row pack pillows. And how do we make that better? How do we make that fun? How do we make that kind of part of our. Our culture? Um, and those are all things that, like, we constantly want to improve.

Speaker A: But it also keeps your staff on their toes.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, I'm not irreplaceable. If he has to, he could fire my ass and jump right in.

Speaker D: And Jay is Not gonna pack pillows more than 20 minutes, I'll tell you that. Oh, yeah, the pillow packers are safe.

Speaker C: 10 minutes, and I'm like, oh, okay, I need to have an intellectual.

Speaker B: How is. How has Pillow Cube evolved? Or is it going to continue to evolve? Or is it kind of going to run its course and you'll step into something else?

Speaker C: No, I think, uh, we're super excited. We just finalized a partnership and investment with Tamarack, uh, and Maloof. Um, so, like, pillowcube is super exciting. There's so many things we're still, like, launching and figuring out and testing. And that's something, like, I think almost that constant reinvention of, like, how do we do something new and different and kind of break those molds is so exciting. And so, um, starting new things is really, like, just. I just love that process. And so I'm always. And creatively has been a great vehicle for that of, like, oh, let's start another one. Let's try another thing. Um, last year, we bought a company called Stair Slide. Uh, it's like that slide for your stairs that you probably have seen on Instagram and your kids can go down. We were the original investor in that and helped kind of start it. So, like, that's just a natural thing that I just always love doing. I just love companies. I love. I think. I think I always tell people, like, find something you'd be willing to do for free. Uh, and then that's where you'll make the most money. Because I would talk about entrepreneurship and start companies and work on companies, and I have, like, for all the time. Before these things that worked, I was spending my nights and weekends with friends, like, hey, let's start a company and let's try this, and. And it wouldn't work for whatever reason. We learn from that. Um, but you have to be willing to do what you love for free. Um, and I think that then all of a sudden, work becomes really fun. This is what I would do on the weekend for nothing.

Speaker D: So a lot of what I do is just DM supermodels now.

Speaker A: Sounds awesome.

Speaker C: Will would also do that for free and say, are you a side sleeper?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker D: Got a pillow for you.

Speaker C: Weird question. Okay.

Speaker A: We have the sleep lab at our company. No. Well, I think that's just a better way of describing the overused word passion. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, it's. I mean, that's what I was doing with barbecue. So I was cooking on the weekend with nobody to even feed.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Just. I just loved the process of cooking.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so, yeah, I think the word passion can be overused sometimes, but really, ultimately that's what it is. Would you do it for free? And if you would, you're probably working harder at it and doing it better than anybody else. That's doing it, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because most people need something for doing something. And so it's that. What's that saying, like, never work a day of your life, whatever that is. Do something you love and you'll never work again. I mean, that's, there's some truth to that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Half true. You know, every time you're doing something you love, there's that point where you're like, uh, ah, this is hard and this sucks and you have to fight through it, whether it's like sports or whatever. So it's like, yeah, it's great, but you still have to find that.

Speaker A: Well, there's certain things that. It's like you with packing boxes. Right? Like, there's certain things.

Speaker C: It's like, I don't want to do that.

Speaker A: I'm not doing it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, but if, if you love it and you're passionate about it, it's. It's easier to get through those speed, you know, over those speed bumps and so funny.

Speaker C: Like, Will and I will go hang out with people. Like we were with, uh, an NBA player recently who's very successful and he just described as like, it's a job. Like, I'm not, I'm. I've passed that point where I, like, love it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's now hit that full job status. And then we've talked to other people who are professional athletes who are like, even farther in their careers. And like, no, I love it. And I don't think either one is like, good or bad. I just think it's, it's like a difference of there are people who you can get into a career. And the one who said, like, hey, it's now kind of a career. There are things he's doing outside of sports that he's really excited about. And so he's kind of now approaching that point of like, okay, I've kind of reached that point where now this is a job. I'm kind of starting to think through what's next. And he's looking at the things. He's like, what am I willing to work on on the nights and weekends? Even as someone who makes ten plus million dollars a year or more, like, he's willing to sit down and be like, hey, what do I want to do with that?

Speaker A: You still have to be fulfilled Yeah. I mean, and that passion in him, loving it. I'm sure he loved it, and that's what got him there. Yeah. But, yeah, once you're there, I mean that. I could say that about this place, too. It's definitely not. It's not as fun as what I did in the driveway. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Because it's the same thing every day.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But the part of it that I will never stop loving is watching people eat the food and love it. Yeah. Ah, that's great. But it is more of a job now where it's. And it's. It's to the point where. Yeah. I. I either am. Like, what you said earlier about, like, being happy with who you are. Like, I get asked probably 10 times a day, when are you going to expand? When are you going to expand? I'm like, I'm happy where I'm at right now. You know what I mean? But I still. But then I'll go home. Like, uh, am I lazy? Like, am I lazy if I don't expand? Like. But lately it's kind of shifted to. I want to find that next.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Thing that I love doing. And it might still be in this realm. It might be expanding.

Speaker C: But, yeah.

Speaker A: I'm just trying to think of what that next exciting thing is. And. And like you said, even if you're a multimillionaire, you still need that fulfillment, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You still need something. The purpose, like you talked about earlier, Andrew, with, you know, people getting a big exit, and it's just like, well, now I'm depressed. I have. I have no. What's my purpose?

Speaker C: No direction.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think that's the hardest thing is, like, fully m. Embracing that. Like, uh, hey, that might be some people's paths is. I'm gonna start 100 of these, and that's what I want to do. And other people's like, no, that's not what I want to do. And it's so important to just stick to that. Like, this is who I am. That's the key right there.

Speaker B: You got to know yourself.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And in that moment.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, it is always shifting.

Speaker B: Give yourself permission to change and evolve.

Speaker A: Totally. Right.

Speaker B: What you want, what you need can change and evolve. So, yeah.

Speaker C: And that's super important. And not just do the exact. I think that's like, even with strategy, we always talk about. This is like, one of my favorite quotes is there's, like a Hugh Nibley quote about, don't be a mirror of anyone else. Be yourself. Uh, if you're a mirror of anyone Else you'll just be a reflection of the true thing, uh, essentially is what he kind of says. And. And as we talk about that with strategy, like, a lot of times it's very tempting. Like, hey, here's this company that's super successful. Let's just kind of mimic them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, but then you're a reflection, and you're not doing it because that's the direction you should be going. And so I think it's one of the hardest things. And young people especially are always like, what's my passion? And what's really hard is, like, be yourself. And often passion comes as you get good at stuff. Uh, like, I'm really passionate about being an entrepreneur. Uh, and I love it, and I've always loved it. But as I've gotten better and just honed that craft a little bit more and gotten a little bit better. A little bit better. Like, it does become more fun, uh, succeeding and having way more fun to be successful. Yeah. Like, just. Just having people who, like, want to buy your product versus no one wants

Speaker B: to buy your product.

Speaker C: I, uh, wouldn't trade it. So sell out. If no one came to Bam. If no one came to Bam Bams, you'd be like, this isn't fun. But it's so popular, and everyone loves it. And that is a joy. Like, it's. It's so fun as an entrepreneur to see people like, oh, they're. They're finding happiness and finding fulfillment in something that I created. Um, and I think a lot of it goes back to that. We're, like, naturally, as humans, creators, and we want to create. Um, and so that's. That's, I think, a really important part of that. But it's hard because it's, uh. When you're. When you see other people, it's so easy to be like, oh, my gosh.

Speaker A: Comparing yourself is very easy. It's natural. Right.

Speaker C: You can look at crumble that's opening 100 stores a year and be like, why are not. Why aren't I doing that?

Speaker A: Seriously?

Speaker C: Yeah, but that's their thing. That's who they are.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And they're killing it. They're doing an amazing job. Like, I'm blown away by that. How fast.

Speaker A: That's nuts.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: We need to get them in here to be fun, to talk to them. But, yeah, I mean, and it's simple.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: A pillow is simple.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: A cookie is simple.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, if you do, you can take a simple thing, and if you do it really well, doesn't matter how much that has existed before, right?

Speaker C: Yeah. That's what always blows me with fellowcube is betting is that space that even VCs have been like, why'd you do betting? Like, that was such a crowded. And it's like, yeah, but we found, like, a spot, and then we kept pushing and pushing, and now we're innovating even more. We're working on products that are going to take us more into the tech space. And it's, like, really fun and exciting to just see that evolving take place. But I think one of you said it, maybe, Andrew, you were saying it, like, early on. That was not. It was not this. Like, it takes those years of work to, like, that. That vision develops over time. And so, well, you don't really know

Speaker A: where it goes until. Until you do.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Well, I mean.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Common story. Susan, she started.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Go to Target.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: And buy something without feeling bad. Like, that. Uh, that was the vision.

Speaker A: Now she wants to buy sports team, you know. You know, it's a little bit bigger

Speaker C: than Target, those hockey teams.

Speaker A: That's the thing. That's what I tried to talk her into. The, like, let's buy this team. We could m. Make this so cool.

Speaker B: Let's put together it now.

Speaker A: Like, oh, my gosh.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's go.

Speaker C: Let me know, because I think it. You definitely nailed it. Like, anytime I see something that I'm like, this is an underutilized thing.

Speaker A: Oh, man.

Speaker C: Like, going to that game the other night was like, why are there not more people here?

Speaker A: I've been dealing with that for nine years. Like, just. Well, there used to be. That team used to be in the league. Higher.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, back in the 90s, that place was sold out, like, every night. But that was just one step. Um, higher. But, yeah, that guy, he cares about his concessions and his events, and he owns some minor league baseball teams. But it's like, how much fun was that? Like, how fun was that game? And so. And it is. It's kind of exactly what you guys specialize in.

Speaker B: Just start an event planning business.

Speaker A: You love that. Yeah. Yeah. It's just marketing. It's marketing a product. And that's what they're not. Yeah, it's entertainment, but it is a product, ultimately. And they're not marketing it right.

Speaker C: Well, you look at the Jazz like, it's crazy how hard it is to get Jazz tickets now. Season tickets. It's, like, impossible.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and so I would, like, when we were at that game, I was like, okay, here's a hockey team in a city where, like, Jazz tickets are sold out every single game.

Speaker A: And they're out of the playoffs.

Speaker C: Uh, and they're out of the playoffs already.

Speaker B: But low blow.

Speaker A: Well, no, that's just what happens every year.

Speaker B: Low blow, first round.

Speaker A: So. No, let's listen. I'm a BYU fan. I can't be a Jets. I don't like the Lakers either. I'm over it. I like the Jazz. I would say I like the Jazz more than any other NBA team. I grew up a Lakers fan.

Speaker B: I just stopped talking.

Speaker A: I can't like BYU and the Jazz at the same time. I don't. I think I would have a heart attack.

Speaker B: Break up with BYU and come.

Speaker A: That's hard.

Speaker D: Who do you like, man? You're not a BYU guy.

Speaker A: He's a Jazz freak. This guy loves, uh, the Jazz.

Speaker B: We joked last time, you can only love one of the two because there's only so much heartbreak you can handle.

Speaker D: Can you take a picture of yourself right when you find out that Donovan Mitchell gets traded this offseason?

Speaker B: I'll be fine.

Speaker C: He's going to be gone.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: They have to do something.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I've been saying for years they need taller guards.

Speaker B: You don't even know what that means.

Speaker C: So I'm going to use that.

Speaker D: Hockey is, I think, the best live sport to watch. It's not even close.

Speaker C: Once you go to a live game and you're close. Like, I remember in high school, I went to a DU game. Uh, when DU is like, I think either first or second.

Speaker A: They won the national championship this year.

Speaker C: Yeah. And they were just phenot. And I, like, went to a game. I was like, why do I not love hockey?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And then me and all my friends who, like, played sports in. In high school, we all got into, like, street hockey.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, and it was just so fun. But, yeah, I don't. I went to that game. Was like, how is this place not at least half full?

Speaker A: Yeah. Well. And it's just. It's just like anything else. Like, it's just like here. Like, I can see a quantifiable difference if I just do a post on Instagram.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I'm horrible at it. Like, it's like months sometimes between posts, but it's like, all you have to do is remind people that it's there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I think with the Grizzlies, it's kind of the same thing. It's like, it's out in West Valley. It's kind of out of the way. But, I mean, it's not hard to get to it's right off at 2:15. But I think most people just. I had so many messages when I posted about that game the other night, like, oh, I totally forgot about the Grizzlies. I'm, um, gonna come.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I mean, somebody's just not doing their job with social media over there and getting people in the seats. But. But yeah. Anyway, I mean, I think it's an interesting example. It's a lot like what we've been talking about.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Marketing is kind of everything.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, but it's hard to do.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's hard to do that turnaround too.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Like, when you have something that's kind of like. I think that's the hardest. The thing that's always, I mean, some of even creatively success is like, we're definitely picking the winning horse.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Uh, a lot of time of like, well, these guys just raised a ton of money. They have a killer product. And so, like, yeah, it's gonna make sense. But it's hardest when people are like, hey, my business has been going down every year. Can you help me, like, turn this ship around? It's like, oh, man, that's. That's where it gets really difficult. Um, and I always am like, I want to try it. But I also.

Speaker A: I was going to say, I would think you would be all over that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah, I think now we're to a point where like, well, let's maybe just see if we can put some people together and buy it.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: You do need that infusion and, uh, of capital and new ideas and often just energy. That's the hardest thing with, with entrepreneurship. When you start looking at it from that, like, longer process, I think is it's really hard to get to a point where you just realize, like, hey, I might need to do the next one. Uh, yeah, like, let go of, let go of this. I think it's really hard for entrepreneurs of like, no, I, I can't. I can't fail. And when you look at it more as like a 50 year process, that becomes easier because you start saying like, hey, that was a great learning experience. I've had failures. I've had a lot of things that did not work and blew up bad. Uh, but those, excuse me, those were good learning experiences. But it's really hard. It's hard when it's like, as the agency being pitched, you're like, uh, you might want to just kill this thing, Mr.

Speaker B: Wonderful. Take this outside and just shoot.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. But then again, how many people have stories of people Telling them that and figuring it out.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's like you do have to. You have to have some balls, too.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And that, uh. I mean, restaurants are no different. I mean, 80. Failure rate. Nobody wants to give me money. You know what I mean? Well, now, I could probably get some,

Speaker D: but I'll give you $12.

Speaker A: Yeah, there you go. Yeah, that'll get you a quarter pound with meat prices right now. But. But yeah, I mean, you're right. And I mean the fear of failing after success, too.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Which I think that. That probably. I think it's a little easier to fail when you're new or inexperienced or coming up. But I think getting to a point where you've succeeded at something, it's hard, too. I think it's kind of actually harder. Way harder. Just because the pride issue kicks in.

Speaker B: Well, then you probably have, like, a certain lifestyle. You know what I mean? It gets actually more challenging. Lightning strike twice. Doesn't happen often for sure. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah. I've talked to a lot of people who've had big exits, and other entrepreneurs look up, naturally look up to them and are like, oh, my gosh, that's amazing. Um, and it's funny when you get them kind of by themselves are like, I want to do it again. But, like, what if it doesn't work? Uh, they have those same fears of, like, Yep. Well, I look like an idiot then. Will everyone say that? I was just like, it was. It was luck because I could only do it once, so it doesn't go away. Like, that's. That's the funny thing for sure. You look from, uh, from when you're starting, like, oh, you know, that person has everything I want. And then you talk to them, and you're like, oh, they still have insecurities and fears. And what if I can't pull it off a second time or a third time? Or, like, it doesn't matter. Even if they've done it five times, they're like, what if I can't do it again?

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Uh, so it's funny, the mental tricks that. That we kind of play. But I think that's. That was one of the things what you reminded. Or something you said, cam reminded me of this. That, um, when we were doing the YouTube channel, there were, like, tons of us at this color run event doing this video, and I'd hired all these people, and then I was like, dude, we should do a YouTube channel. Like, this would be crazy. Uh, and we were all talking about it. Me and Scott were talking about it, and everyone was like, let's do it, let's do it. And then when we got back from la, me and Scott sat down and came up with a couple ideas. And then we like texted everyone like, hey, let's do it. We're gonna do it this Saturday at this park. And everyone except for Scott and one other guy, Brendan, by the way, everyone was like, are you guys like paying people? Like, uh, is it just like, hey, friend.

Speaker B: Cold Yeller's good buddy.

Speaker A: Oh, that's right.

Speaker C: Yeah, Brendan.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Yeah, dude, He's a freaking love. Brendan. Genius. Uh, and everyone else was just like, well, if there's not money. And we did this video and made this like funny kitten air video and ended up going viral and JJ Abrams like reshared it and all these crazy things. And then immediately after that it was like, everyone's like, hey, when was the next one? But it was like, been such a huge lesson for me of just like, do stuff again to the thing of like, what are you willing to do for free? Um, because you never know. Uh, you never know what will come of that. And so many people are like, will this give me immediate benefit right now?

Speaker A: Isn't that funny? It's like, I wonder if anybody turned down Mr. Beast for the first six or seven years.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker D: Oh, a long time, dude.

Speaker A: If you look at his channel, 13 years old is when he started.

Speaker D: You know, people are so worried about ideas.

Speaker B: Like, oh, they still tell him he's stupid because he puts all his money back into his videos. They still tell him he's dumb.

Speaker A: Isn't that crazy? Sorry, what were you m saying?

Speaker D: I was just saying a lot of people talk about ideas and like, oh, I got this great idea, I got this great idea. And one of the things I think Jay's been like really successful with is that he isn't working, worried about the idea. He's just like, let's do it. And he just goes and does it. And people are so busy thinking about the idea and never actually doing anything.

Speaker A: I think that's the difference between an entrepreneur and an employee. Yeah. Or even that like, I think the people that are that truly want to be an entrepreneur have the balls to just. And not to say that it's not okay to be the other way. Mhm. But they have the balls to just try.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Right. Because that's really scary. And I, I think it takes a certain wiring.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: To be able to kind of sidestep some security. And like, you were talking about micromanaging the other day. There's a Lot of people that just like, I will do the job. I just need to know what to do.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? So it's. But it's, it's hard because. Yeah. You don't want to fail, you don't want to look bad. Like, what if people think the idea is stupid? But you have to be able to just not worry about it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And just go. And I mean, we've had so many people in here that had no idea.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: What they were doing. I didn't. Like, I knew how to cook barbecue. I knew how much money I had to open the restaurant. But it's like you just kind of learn as you go. But you just have to have the balls to just dive in and just do it and go. And so it's tough.

Speaker C: I think that's the heart. Uh, like Will was saying, like there, there's that middle ground of people who are like, I want to try something. And it's like, dude, just do it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, stop talking about it. Stop pitching your idea to family.

Speaker A: Well, that's no excuse right now. I mean it was different 20 years ago, but now like it's progressively. If you want to build a rocket, all you have to do is get on your computer.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Mhm. Like there's really anything that you want to learn how to do is at your fingertips now.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Where before it took experience, it took mentors, it took crazy. I mean, it still obviously helps a lot to have mentors. But I mean you can get way more education on a computer than you can in college if you want it.

Speaker C: Yeah. Do you remember Kiye Kay way back in the day, it was like 2006, one business competition.

Speaker A: He designed, uh, one of the guys, Tyler.

Speaker C: Oh yeah.

Speaker A: He actually designed the Bam Bam.

Speaker C: That's right.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: He actually has told me that before. I, I know a bunch of those guys and it just 15 years ago, like they were 2006.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, like what they described trying to do a D2C E commerce company here in Utah. Like crazy. Like they were paying $80,000 to get like a basic E commerce site and Now Shopify is 30 bucks a month.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: And it has 10,000 times more power, more tools, more resources. And so it's exactly like it just gets easier and easier. But the thing that never gets easier is just like doing it. Just do it. Like stop talking. Um, and uh, those are the hardest. The people who are just always pitching idea. I'm like, dude, you're waiting for the perfect idea. Pillow cube on the surface was like, about as bad of an idea. Like, just dumb.

Speaker A: Well, that was. I remember before this, I was like, that's the question I want to ask, like, why pillows? Like pillow pillows? Like it. I. What a great space. Only because we spend so much time. So much time sleeping. But it's like, um, I. Yeah, you think? Like, that is just.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Can I tell you why pillows.

Speaker A: Yeah, of course.

Speaker D: So I remember the first time I laid on that prototype that Jay made.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker D: And I was like, ah. And it was just such a good pillow for a side sleeper. There wasn't another product out there that was, like, side sleeper pillow that just crushed.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker D: And so, like, I felt like we actually had m. Magic in a. In a bottle there, you know, Lightning. A bottle where she's like, hey, this is perfect, man. Let's, uh. Let's do it, you know? And so, like, we talk a lot about the marketing, a lot about that kind of stuff, but when you have a product that just, like, 100.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: Then you're like, oh, let's nail this. You know, like, to be able to, like, grow out, like, marketing is to let somebody hear it the first time and get somebody to sell. But, like, once somebody actually buys it and then, like, tells people about it, that's, like, when the real magic for sure, takes off.

Speaker C: I remember the first time I ate Bam bams.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like, to this day, I still remember, like, the first time I came and was like, dude, that is crazy. Like, that is Texas barbecue in Utah. And to that point, we had what? Dickies. Like, it was like.

Speaker D: Because it was that bad.

Speaker A: There were three. There were three barbecue spots within. Within a mile of here.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: When I opened, which, again, it's like,

Speaker C: people are probably like, why bar? Like, there's already barbecue spots.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: Like, but you came here, and I remember that first time. I think maybe m. It was with you.

Speaker D: Yeah. Kim. A lot.

Speaker C: Yeah. And then, like. And so I think that that's what's so fascinating and something like one of my pet peeves as an entrepreneurs, as an entrepreneur that other entrepreneurs do. And I think all entrepreneurs should stop. This is. We look at other businesses, and we're like, oh, man, that'd be so easy. Like, people see pillowcube, and they're like, man, I wish I. Like, someone at a SaaS company will be like, I wish I was making a physical product that's super easy to make. I'm like, yeah, that's like. But then has a lot of hard stuff. Like, it's so. I just think as Entrepreneurs instead, we need to look at other entrepreneurs. I'm like, dude, that is a hard. Every type of entrepreneurship, physical products, food services, event software. Each has pros and cons. And in every situation, it's insanely hard.

Speaker A: Oh, for sure.

Speaker C: There's not a single type of entrepreneurship. And. And I think that that's like, something that's comforting and reassuring is like, it's all hard. It's just every single type. It takes a ton of guts. Takes a ton of, like, ambition and resolve to not give up. And. And so I think it's just like. It really is funny how you look at it and the every single thing you look at and you say, ah, uh, that seems like a crazy idea, right? You know, like, uh, even, like, I remember I met some of the divvy guys seven years ago, eight years ago. And at the time it was like, uh, that's kind of crazy idea. You know, knowing I was at like, their.

Speaker B: One of their first pitches, really, Like, I just got money from Paleon and like, they were at their annual event, like, pitching. I was like, hm, hmm. Wonder how that's gonna go for them.

Speaker C: There we go. Did pretty good. And that's, I think a consistent thing with entrepreneurship is. It's just like, all of it's hard. We're not competing against each other, you know, you're just competing against yourself and trying to.

Speaker A: There's a whole string of failures usually leading up to. I like Brock Blake, what he said, the Lendio CEO. Every entrepreneur has two or three fetal position moments.

Speaker C: Oh, yeah.

Speaker A: Leading up to their success, where it's just like on the floor, fetal position. What the hell am I gonna do? And if you don't have those, uh, I mean, I think that's just part of the process. Yeah, but you're right. I mean, other than people that I do struggle with, like, copycat sometimes, which you do see a lot of that, especially with, like, consumer goods or, I mean, restaurants even.

Speaker D: I'm talking to you, Costa Vita.

Speaker A: Which is now kind of better than Cafe Rio.

Speaker D: Isn't that weird?

Speaker A: Yeah, it is kind of weird, but

Speaker C: I was a big Cafe Rio fan for most of that time, and now I've switched.

Speaker A: Once they sold, it was never really the same, but. But yeah, I mean, it. It is. It is hard.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's hard.

Speaker A: Like, you don't realize the accounting, the product, like, the market, like, supply chain, all that stuff, gas price, it all factors in, and you just always have to be ready to. Well, look at Covid. Yeah, I mean, it was make or break for just about every industry out there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, you could either just fold up, shop and quit, or you just have to pivot and do something different. So.

Speaker C: Yeah. Didn't you guys, like, in one day figure out drive thru is. Well, correctly when you sort of did your Instagram post?

Speaker A: I had the drive thru built for like a year.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I was kind of too scared

Speaker C: to, like, pull the trigger on it.

Speaker A: Start it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Just because I was like, oh, man. I don't really have experience with drive through. But again, like, deadlines are really good for me. Like when.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Crap hits the fan, like, that's where I can excel. And so, um, as soon as we found out, we would have to close. The only thing I need to do is run some wiring to some outlets and switches. So I called my electrician. I was like, okay, will you please come in here and wire this stuff up? And I was open the next day.

Speaker C: That's crazy.

Speaker A: And so. So, yeah, it was.

Speaker C: It was funny how it forces you to.

Speaker A: Yeah. And sometimes that's what I have adhd. I talk about it a lot. And that's the type of stuff that really is good for me.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Like, I need deadlines, I need accountability. I need things to, like, force me sometimes. And that one was great for that. And so. So, yeah, Covid was nuts.

Speaker C: Funny how I feel like almost every entrepreneur has adhd.

Speaker A: Well, uh, a couple of recent books that have come out. Like, there's one that wasn't necessarily published, but his title was CEO or convict.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And. And it is true. Our prison, they. They predict that 80% of our prisons are filled with people with undiagnosed ADHD. But like, your JetBlue founder.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: He talks about it a ton.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I. I think you're right. A lot of that. Some of the things that benefit, we don't assess risk like other people.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: We don't really have that part of the brain that does that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Which is a blessing and a curse. Yeah, it's a blessing if you're trying to start a business. It's a curse if you want to rob a bank. Yeah. Like, yeah. What's the worst that can happen?

Speaker C: It works in the movies, turns out.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Kind of a lot.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: But you're right.

Speaker A: I've talked to quite a few people in here that even some that didn't know that they had it, and now they're getting treatment for it.

Speaker C: But do you take medicine?

Speaker A: I do. I have for a long time.

Speaker C: Yeah. I have. I haven't I've done.

Speaker A: Are you diagnosed with adhd?

Speaker C: Uh, self diagnosed. If you look at the symptom list, it's like. Yeah, they write this about you.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. You can focus on the things you love and it's really struggle with things that you don't.

Speaker C: Yeah. And so it's emails, hard.

Speaker A: Pretty normal.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. But we're also really good with people.

Speaker C: Yeah. And so have you read Faster Than Normal? That's a really good one, actually.

Speaker A: I have heard of that book.

Speaker C: Yeah. Peter Shankman, I think.

Speaker A: Okay. Faster than Normal.

Speaker C: Great.

Speaker A: Check that one out.

Speaker C: He talks about it like, ADHD is your superpower.

Speaker A: Absolutely.

Speaker C: View it that way. Don't view it as, like, this negative. And so if it's harnessed. Yeah.

Speaker A: But there's also a study saying if you have it and it's not treated, you're taking 26 years off your lifespan.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, man, that wild. That is crazy.

Speaker A: So, yeah, anyway, tangent, adhd.

Speaker C: Go get.

Speaker A: Oh, I always feel bad when I go down the ADHD path and you're just like, oh, here we go again.

Speaker C: We've been down this road before.

Speaker A: No, this has been fascinating. I think that. I think people love listening to this podcast for this type of thing. Just the entrepreneurial thing, you know, it's like, I would love to hear stories of any listener that just finally, you know, you're talking about the entrepreneur. Like, just somebody that has the idea that just.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Maybe listening to this podcast gives them the guts to just try.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know what I mean? And so I think this has kind of all of those. All of those things that scare people we kind of talked about today.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so hopefully this can kind of inspire some people to make a move.

Speaker C: Just get going. I always tell people. I hate when people tell me their startups in stealth mode because I'm like, stop it. Like, I heard that. Do something. Um, and I should go on LinkedIn, dude.

Speaker D: There's people with their, like, their job. They're like, yeah, dark mode. I'm not telling people what I'm doing right now.

Speaker C: The startup we're still in, I don't

Speaker D: want people to know about my business because it might be successful if they knew about it.

Speaker C: But I think that that's. Yeah, you have the people who. It's just like, hey, just do it. It's so. You really can't predict early. Early on. Um, you know, like, we're. I think creatively has a really great methodology for how do we predict someone who's going to. And can they explode and See huge growth. Or can they not?

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: Um, but, like, brand new things. Like, we're just like everyone else. We get them right, we get them wrong. Uh, because it's just. You don't know. Like, there's so many things. And so I think that there's a lot of people out there who are just beating themselves up, like, I'm not smart enough. I'm not. Blah, blah, uh, blah. Whatever reason, it's like, dude, just do it. Just get going.

Speaker A: I don't know. Until you try.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And even when you start trying, you start learning things about it, and your idea can kind of morph into other things or. But I think we have enough information out there to know how to do it. If you want to do it, you can do it. It's right. It's right there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Especially in Utah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I think Utah is a pretty incredible place for entrepreneurship and so, so many

Speaker C: resources, so many people who want to see other people succeed.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: So, uh, it's amazing.

Speaker B: Well, thanks, guys, for coming on. This is awesome.

Speaker A: Sounds like really was.

Speaker C: Thanks for having us.

Speaker A: Try some pillow cubes. They are amazing.

Speaker B: So good.

Speaker A: I saw my. The first time I was at the. I went to the Masters about a month ago, and Jake Christman, we get to the hotel, and he pulls this cube out of his suitcase. Like, what the hell is that? Because you haven't seen pillow cubes. And I hadn't. This was, like, probably a week or two before we called you guys.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's so funny. Like, a week later, I get the email from Will, like, hey, we have the podcast schedule. I want to send you one. I was like, oh, yes. Because I totally wanted to try Jake, so.

Speaker C: It's crazy.

Speaker A: Pretty nuts. Pretty awesome. But you're right. Like, you see people use it. He was upset. I mean, homeboy, like, put it in a Ziploc, like, vacuum sealed it to travel with it, because he wanted his. He didn't want the, like, travel one. The.

Speaker C: The.

Speaker A: Was it the side.

Speaker C: The sidekick?

Speaker A: Yeah, he wanted his normal home, but that's a pretty cool thing that you can just kind of roll it up and. I mean, you wouldn't even have to vacuum seal. You just use some big, you know, rubber bands or zip ties or something. But he couldn't leave home without it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I mean, that says something.

Speaker C: I love hearing stories of people that they're like, I paid more money to overnight my pillow from the hotel because I forgot it than I ever paid for the pillow because I had to have it the next day.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: That's brand.

Speaker A: That's when you know you're doing something good. Yeah. You're doing something right.

Speaker C: Amazing.

Speaker A: That's funny. Well, thanks, fellas.

Speaker C: Hey, thanks for having.

Speaker A: Me.