#531 - Lisa Jane Watson Heath - Kidzplay

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the next 100 days podcast. My name is Graham Arrowsmith.

Speaker A: And my name is Kevin Appleby. Graham, today we're going to talk about play, but, uh, with a, uh, lady who seems to have as many names as the Nelly. Our days in the week.

Speaker B: Well, yeah, well, four of them anyways. Uh, it's Lisa Chain, Watson, Heath. Uh, they're all easy to say. And I've met Lisa and she's a nice lady and she basically, um, she's incredibly bright. So you and I, Kevin, will be like the dullards in the room. Oh, we've already established that's normal. She was a more senior person in, in the accounting firm that you worked at. So basically she's got one up on you there. So, Lisa, welcome to the next 100 Days podcast.

Speaker C: Thank you, Graham. Thank you, Kevin.

Speaker B: And you know, you both, just for the record, you both worked at Coopers. Ah. And Ly Brand for a while. Um, and uh, then did you go on to PwC, both of you?

Speaker C: Yes, it merged. Yeah. With Price Wars House.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And the Coopers people, as I said earlier, were always the best half of that combination.

Speaker C: Well, they were. Absolutely, absolutely.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. And I'm sure PwC thought the same, but, um, nonetheless, um. You're not an accountant as such now, or do you still dabble in that sort of area?

Speaker C: No, I still do accounts. Um, but uh, from an operational point of view, I'm not interested in HMRC and filing and paperwork. Basically, I'm a lot more interested in how finance can help you make, uh, really good decisions.

Speaker B: Yeah, okay, well, we can get into that. Um, but let's start with, um, as Kevin mentioned right at the beginning, um, play now, um, what's the problem that people face that you solve with kids play?

Speaker C: So kids plays evolved. Um, I bought a soft Play Center 18 years ago in July 20th, uh, 2007. Ah. And um, I did it originally because it was somewhere I could take my kids and work at the same time. So in. I've ultimately got to six play centers. Um, we employed 90 people. Covid hit and actually you saw the effect of not having play in kids lives. So we opened for like 12 weeks in Covid, and straight away the kids didn't have the interaction or the social skills or want to play with other kids. It was really, it was devastating to see actually. So, um, I've always been about, uh, bringing families together. That's kind of my reason for being. And once Covid, once we got over Covid, I was like, actually this is A bigger, uh, this is a bigger deal. And then obviously we've had the cost of living crisis, we've had the energy crisis, we've now got a war. And the thing that people sacrifice the most is entertaining their kids. And it isn't entertaining their kids, it's actually developing deep bonds with their children. And you do that through play. And we have, you know, it's a well documented mental health crisis in young people. Um, and I put that down to a lot, a lot where, you know, parents are, uh, compelled is a word I need to use. But because of, you know, the cost of everything, now two parents need to work. Um, and it means the children that bond with the kids is sacrificed. So, um, what I wanted to do is come up with something where it was cheap, cheap for people, relatively cheap, but also encourage them to go out and spend time with their kids. So we've come up with a kids play membership where you pay an amount per month and you can go visit as many venues as I can sign up, uh, in the month. So you don't have that whole stress of what we're going to do today and that kind of stuff.

Speaker B: But if you allow somebody to go to say, well, all right, four venues in a month, um, and the venue might charge you more than the rate that you effectively charge. I mean, how does it work? Have you negotiated really, uh, keen prices that you've basically allowed people to walk in at two thirds the price?

Speaker C: Some of it is that. So instead of, um, a price per visit, because the venue economics is really difficult. So take this week for example. I still have one soft play. It's been beautifully sunny, no one goes in. So instead of taking 30 grand that I'd normally take in half term, we've taken four.

Speaker B: All right, that climate change thing, that, uh, climate change, it gets warm in the summer and it gets cold in the winter. But it's still climate change, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, but it's very difficult to plan and very difficult to run payroll and deal with, you know, energy bills and stuff like that. So what I'm saying to venues is basically I will buy a table or a slot or buy some time at, ah, a fixed price.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And that's how come I can offer it to customers.

Speaker B: Okay, that makes some sense. And so, okay, um, offline, we'll talk about something else that's very similar to that model that our last chat. Private chat. Um, anyway, a bit of a development on that, that side, but nonetheless, I'm very, very keen to hear more about Kids play. Because you said earlier, you said that you can take your children to a place where you can continue to work. How is that bonded?

Speaker C: For me, it was, um. I actually think it's been really important for my kids because they've seen. They've had to be looked after by other people, but not in a nursery situation. Both my kids are very driven, um, understand work. Um. And you're just modeling to them, aren't you? All the time.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So.

Speaker C: So I think. I think they've benefited from it. They neither. Both of them say, I'll never run my own business, so that's not good.

Speaker B: Well, they will when they. When they can't get a job down at Woolworths. I mean, that's. That'll be all right straight round. Um. But, um. But no, no, I, um. And actually the. It's. It's not so much of running your own business. It's. It's having a. We've talked about this earlier in the day, Kevin. It's almost having a purpose, uh, to your life. Um, we had a doctor from. From, um. Uh, from South Africa, a brilliant guy. And, um. Basically, um. It was just a really interesting conversation. But, uh, one of the things he deals with is, um, mood and, um, all those sort of things that you mentioned, mental health crisis and so forth. Um, I'm more of a skeptic on that, but I think that what happens is the convergence of pressures.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Does people. Puts people under pressure? So if you. If your solution helps with that, when they go to these events, is it you. You know, parents can sit there and. Yeah, the kids can see you and they're going off and they're doing their thing on the soft play and all that. But because you're there, uh, there's a certain reassurance they can go off and do stuff. And is that is a bonding. I was a bit unkind earlier, but basically it is a bonding. But it's more of, um. You're not quite participating, but you're there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And that's. That's important, I assume, then.

Speaker C: Yes. But also we do other stuff. So, um, you know, we do kids classes where kids, uh, can learn basic skills at the end of the day. So I'll give you a. I'll give you a stat. Um, there's a lot of surgeons now who can't sew up people because we don't teach needle work at a junior level. And people don't put two and two together. You know, like, if you don't sew bits of material early doors. You're not going to sew people well.

Speaker B: Oh, right, yeah, right.

Speaker C: But you don't make that link, you know, those, those. And also people that, um, fine motor skills aren't as good. So we run quite a lot of classes where we try and, you know, get kids fine motor skills a lot better.

Speaker B: And actually they can.

Speaker A: I think.

Speaker B: I'm pretty sure that when I was at school we'd do stuff like that, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Making patterns with, you know, sewing and so forth.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, and I, you know, I mean, Kevin's still doing it, you know, this, you know, he's still, he's still a veteran, so. Aren't you, Kevin?

Speaker A: Funny you should say that, but, uh, we had grandchildren here last weekend and wife Ruth was teaching Grandson Louis, who's 6 now, how to do cross stitch.

Speaker B: Oh, cross stitch, eh? So that, I suppose that's good. I. Isn't it the case that with so much time being spent in front of screens and here we are, all three of us look at screens, um, that basically some of the core things that uh, happened in our early life, uh, you know, lives are just not really there. And does kids play have a, almost a wider, um, motive than the one that you've described hitherto? Is it going to change? Because with the advent of AI, uh, we talked about this earlier as well. With the advent of AI people are going to be, um, have a lot more time on their ends potentially.

Speaker C: Um, we still need to learn how to use our bodies, which is what softplay is. You know, it's a very safe environment for kids to go and jump, climb and do whatever else I want to do, run around, go crazy, scream. Um, those environments aren't in our natural spaces anymore. You don't, you know, kids don't play out in streets and stuff because there's too many cars. So soft play is giving them that element. Um, and then we still, they still need all those softer skills. And the other thing that I like about soft play is it teaches them to share. It teaches them to be in other people's space because like you say, they're in front of a screen all the time. No one's competing with them. They're not, they're not having to share stuff. Um, and, and they are becoming a bit, what's the word, More self centered, more self absorbed for being in that environment. So I, I think soft play is really good for that. And then the farms, that. The farms is just understanding animals and understanding where your food comes from. It's quite, we do Some work around kids, um, understanding, you know, what a carrot looks like. I know it sounds really random, but they generally get them cut up and they don't know where the food actually comes from.

Speaker B: Going to detail because Kevin's like confused at this point.

Speaker A: Yeah, I thought, I thought carrots came in, in pre made round.

Speaker B: Well, I've grown them and I've got to say, um, it's not easy growing carrots.

Speaker C: It really isn't.

Speaker B: And, but you have to say, um, if you're doing. I just think there's a wider, there's a wider thing. You know, this is not limited. It's, it's almost, you know, when I worked at Lego, one of the things, it's a new toy every day. But the limitlessness of playing with LEGO bricks, uh, was and is still amazing. They've, sadly for me, they've gone into branding with other crappy brands but basically that is what they've chosen to do. But they're, but kids using Lego absolutely love the product. And I think, you know, I've always had a thing about children because obviously with Lego, my wife has run a, in fact she got an award, um, this, this last week for 30 years looking after the local preschool which you know is some time. So you've got kids play and that's got tremendous growth opportunity for you. But you're also, you're also involved in something called the Wired Framework. What's that all about?

Speaker C: It's about um. So I've gone through some, a big personal journey in that, um, started life out as a proper accountant and then uh, bought and sold a company when I was 31 to the game group, got married and got to the side of that and then realized actually everything that I'd been building before, it's a bit like the second Mountain, um, book that is out there. You, you, you do all of these things and you think it's what you want. Um, but actually when you, when it comes down to um, isn't. And so in going through. I've gone through a divorce, all my companies and I've reached the other side of that. And then it's all about purpose. It's about mindset, it's about actually what's really important. And for me the thing that we don't place enough importance on is our health, both physically and mentally. And um, we give a lot to other people and it's not about becoming selfish and it's not about um, the letting go stuff that Mel Robbins, ah, sort of talks about. For me, it's about recognizing that you are important in this, in either a marriage or being a parent or whatever. And actually your physical and mental health needs to come first and then everyone else will fit in around it. And it's just a different. It's just a different way of thinking. But you've got. We've talked about it before. It's about, you know, having your purpose. When you, when you actually have a purpose in what you're doing, it makes life a lot easier.

Speaker B: You, when we talked, you talked about a five pillar founder framework which um, we went through at pace. And um. But I still kind of remember the flailing that you gave me for my business. It was like, um, good God. Um, um.

Speaker A: I've been trying to give him flailing for his business for about ten and

Speaker B: a half years, Lisa.

Speaker A: You very, very well succeeded.

Speaker B: M. But just remind us of the five pillars because four of mine were on the floor after you shut up. Uh, um. So give us an idea of what these five pillars are all about then.

Speaker C: In truth, Graham, I can't quite remember them totally off the top of my head. I just have. Yeah, I have, I have a rough idea of.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, yeah. Specifically for your business.

Speaker B: Oh, I, I can't reveal that. I mean that would be, that would be off. I mean it's all it. I think that the. What you said it earlier, Lisa. You talked about purpose. Um, and I think one of the things that you said at the time was um, being scrupulously focused on, on your purpose.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Not allowing yourself to get diverted. I think what I was hinting at earlier is that basically there's a new business opportunity which kind of melds, uh, the sort of businesses that I'm involved in. Um, if you class this as a business, Kevin, and if you then have the um, finely fettled and Microsoft, so you've got the AI solutions and you've got the, the data, the high net worth, the focus on affluent people. When you put those three things together with this other thing, which I won't go into detail at the moment, then that basically, um, it kind of brings everything together in a very focused way. And I think in I, I got to credit you a little bit with that because it's, it's a sort of, um. It was the kicking that I probably needed, I think. I don't know. I think you're obviously very good at kicking people.

Speaker C: Yes, yes, I do. I do enjoy it. Um, I think what it is. How do I put it? Sometimes we will do a lot of work and make ourselves busy when in fact we don't want to do the thing that will push us forward. So I'll give you an example. In my business, um, I have written pitch decks, I have done all sorts of stuff. The person I've not spoken to is Nick, who is the guy who will unlock all the venues for me. He's got four venues and I've been messing around trying to get everything perfect before I approach him. And last week I sat back and went, you've done a great job of making yourself busy and um, uh, producing pretty pictures and stuff. And you haven't made the phone call. So I was like, make the phone call. So I'm now meeting him tomorrow at 10am wow. Yeah, so, so that's. The kicking is like a, know what you want and um, prioritize properly. I think, I think every single one of us don't, don't prioritize our health. And actually the minute it goes. Because I, I told you, I think I told you before, I was seriously ill for a bit, um, as soon as your health goes, that's it, everything's gone.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So if we don't prioritize that, we're in trouble.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and then after that it is about being so totally focused on what you're doing and really asking yourself every day, have I achieved what I wanted to do today? Like, have I made myself busy in diverting myself somewhere else? And is it a limiting factor that's stopping me from moving that forward?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the limiting factor that's all of a sudden there's part of my body sort of shivering at the moment because I think that might be one of those things. But so if you really want a good, um, a uh, good coach, then. Yeah, I mean, isn't that another part of your stringed bow?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a part of the wired framework is. So what I was saying to you on that one was we work in a 12 week sprint and then we have a month off and for those 12 weeks we're ruthless in focus. And part of what I want to do is go, you know, have you achieved what you said you were going to do? Because sometimes, you know, it's a, it's really hard motivating yourself every single week and you, you can let yourself be distracted. I'm terrible for it. So actually every week turning up and saying, no, I really did do the thing I didn't want to do,

Speaker B: um, you do this at, uh, uh, the Broughton Estate just outside of Skipton. And that's anybody who's in the sort of Yorkshire or Lancashire, maybe Cheshire area, and maybe the Lake District will know of the Broughton Estate. And it's not that far from you. And that's where you run these events, isn't it?

Speaker C: Yes. Yeah. Because it's about getting you out of your environment.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And. And actually getting you focused, um, on a whole day of going, right, what do you actually want? And it's not, like I say, it's not just business, it is personal. Because if you. If you don't have the right mindset, personally.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Then you can't. You can't push your business forward. And I've learned that to my costs as well. So it's working on both things. Um, and like I say, sprinting for 12 weeks, having a month off, and in that month it's having a. Not a rest, but a consolidation and also enjoyment. Because I think as business owners, we're really good at, like, just going at it 247 and we forget that we need to enjoy it as well.

Speaker B: You may have met. I can't remember exactly when we had a conversation, but it was recently. But, um, for the last couple of months or so, you've been, um, involved with Flat Cap Fridays.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: It sounds like something that I'm sure I'd enjoy because it's a sort of Yorkshire thing, isn't it? But basically. Oh, do you have flat caps up in Northumberland, Kevin?

Speaker A: Oh, we do. You do is a traditional Northumberland thing.

Speaker B: Oh, is it?

Speaker A: Mining community, Graham?

Speaker B: Oh, of course, yeah. But that doesn't exist anymore, does it? I mean, at the end of the day, they're all, um, they're all seamstresses now, aren't they?

Speaker A: Baristas in Costa Coffee.

Speaker B: But you. This is. This Flat Cap Friday thing is you. You're on that leads and it's a. What is it? Some sort of a professional network for broke. When you say brokers, are we talking about financial brokers or.

Speaker C: Yes, financial brokers. So it's bringing lenders and brokers together. It's a networking group, but in, um, a very, very relaxed environment. Just basically go to the pub on a Friday and make contact.

Speaker A: You need to form a networking group to go to the pub on a Friday.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Now, when you've got to make up a networking group, just like. Just to go to the pub,

Speaker B: I. You, uh, are. The thing is, Lisa, the one thing I. I'm seriously impressed with you about is, is that you. There's lots of things going on now. Maybe some of the stress that you felt is this is, is how I felt once I'd spoken to you. Do I have too many things? You know, am I really corralling these? So there's a plowing forward, um, sorry, it's a football analysis. But halfway through the signal, a third way through the season, most people wanted out the, uh, legionnighted manager to be fired. And the reason is he had all these resources and he wasn't using them in the way in which everybody else watching the game said, crying out loud, use them in that order.

Speaker A: He did.

Speaker B: He started halfway through a game against Manchester City and he never looked back. And he kept us in the league and he did a brilliant job. And nobody wants to fire him now because he actually used his resources in a particularly fine way. But it got to the breaking point where probably he would have been fired that week, but he changed. Is there something that sort of. Is that you, in a way because you've got so many different things going on. How can you be focused when you've got all those things going on?

Speaker C: Delegation.

Speaker B: Okay, see what you're saying is that all these things, they're, uh, not really your experience is somebody else's experience that you pain.

Speaker C: What I'm saying is, as well as being completely focused on what you're doing, I also don't do stuff. Or take his spray, for example. I have burst it, I have got it there. But I'm, I am now trying to recruit marketing. I've got a developer, uh, a pa so effectively, yes, I'm doing it all, but I'm doing the high level thinking. I'm not doing the day to day speaking to people. So. So yes, I've got a lot going on, but I don't physically do much of the work.

Speaker B: But. And is that something, when it comes to your, you know, health, is that something that helps you that you said, right, I'm the strategic girl here. That's what I'm doing.

Speaker C: Um, yeah.

Speaker B: And um. Notice I didn't say guy. That um, really hacks me off. I don't know when, when, if, if you're in a restaurant with, with Ruth and somebody says, guys, my wife's not a guy. When did that happen? Why do people call you guys, ah,

Speaker A: Americans for you, Graham.

Speaker B: Well, it's English people now doing it as well. I, I think it's. This is a ridiculous thing. Well, they just say, anyway, that's another thing. But, um, is it. You've chosen to be this strategic and you're good at that. So you could have an, you could be elon. Musk and have another 10 businesses, all complicated. As long as you pick your place.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Is that your model for the next. Because you're still quite young. Is that your model for the next 10, 15 years?

Speaker C: Yes, because I have done. I have done the working really, really hard bit, and, um, it doesn't get you anywhere. I think it just. It just got me into. Yeah, just working constantly, not having good relationships with people. So it's just. It's taking that higher level up of going actually, you know, I value my life above anything else. And what do I want to do with my life? Okay. I want to be physically fit, want to be mentally fit. I want to have time for my children. What. Have time for me, actually, as well.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So that's the most important thing. And then everything else has to slot around it. Then when you do that, you go, I can't do 10 hours answering customers email, because it's not what I want to do with my life. So I've got to sort it out.

Speaker A: Yeah. Uh, Lisa, you're doing all of those different things, though. I'm hearing kids. I'm here with coaching, networking groups.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Where does. What. What's the purpose that actually pulls all those together? Because they feel like quite diverse things to me.

Speaker C: They're not. They're not diverse. Um, they're all about community. I like bringing people together and. But no one to feel lonely.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: So I. I accept they sound diverse, but they're not

Speaker B: with the best question. Don't you notice? Have you noticed that Kevin, he sits there and he's like, um, I've got a brilliant question. I'll show that Aerosmith. And because he's right. And your answer is community.

Speaker A: So, Lisa, if somebody was coming to you and saying, oh, recognize all this coaching stuff, but I'm not sure of my own purpose, what would you say to them? How do you work out what this purpose is?

Speaker C: Um, I will generally have a. People give you clues, even if they don't know. Um, have you heard the seven layers of why? Yeah, yeah, I basically do that. But they don't know that they're answering the seven layers of why. And it might take two or three conversations to get there. So I don't force that conversation straight away. But they will uncover what their purpose is, what is. You know, and it does boil down to freedom or, well, mainly freedom in whatever guys that is. Um, for me, it's the lonely thing, because I felt lonely as a child, so I never have wanted anyone to feel that way. That's. You Know my thing and m. Also freedom, which is again why I don't want to get in the trenches of every company. It's like, no, I want to have freedom to choose what I do with my day. I don't need to go traveling. I don't need polluting sort of freedom ideas. Freedom to me is I wake up in the morning and I decide what I'm going to do.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. We both attended Biz X and I'm just looking at your LinkedIn thing and you put up the picture where we all got on the stage and um, I can't remember who took the photo, but somebody took the photo. And um, I'm on the right of the picture looking out and you're on the left of the picture looking out. I wonder if there's something in that. I mean, you know, I'm, I'm probably. I should be a little bit further to the right, but I don't know the person. Person on the furthest right is definitely not right. So basically. But you know, she's a friend of yours, so I'm not going to say any more about that, but basically. But it was a wonderful um, event. Lots um, of people there, um, so many businesses. Um, it was organized by Action Coach and uh, we were both uh, the invited by um, a former um, guest, ah, of ours. Kevin. Um, um.

Speaker C: Bill.

Speaker B: Bill, yes. Sorry, Bill. I had a mental blank there. Um, but um.

Speaker A: You're getting old. You say Aerosmith when you think it

Speaker B: is that it is that. But Bill. No, but seriously though. And Bill brought everybody together and um, uh, it was a, it was a really interesting couple of days or so. Um, learned an awful lot. Learn also that there are some people, um, scamming a living with some of their presentations. But that's beside the point. Um, yeah, um, and I, but that said, there were some really nice people amongst our group, um, that um, it's worth so. And Bill's very much a coach, an Action coach. Um, and I just think, is that something that you see yourself heading towards more than the other things? Coaching others?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yes, I can see doing that, yes. Because I enjoy it. I like helping people and I like. I like helping people see how to break through, you know, mind blocks and things. Find it very interesting.

Speaker B: There's something about you that says if you didn't then you should have gone to Oxford or uh, Cambridge. Um, do you have one of those brains that is that kind of level of thought is that ah, kind of really quite analytical?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: Deep thinking. It's like Having one of the LLMs on five out of five. When it comes to deep thinking, it's a bit like Kevin, Kevin's one. No, I'm actually half out of five. So um, but no, seriously though, um, you do have that about you, Lisa.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you. That's a lovely compliment. Yes, I, I, yes, I do very much deep think about people. I do, I do want to help people. You know, I, the thing is, I've been there, I've been through every scenario you can be on as a business owner. I've been given a million pound check when I sold one of my businesses and I've almost been, well, I've had to liquidate a company. So I've gone from, I've done the wide range.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And understand what it feels like to be that person at that time. Mhm.

Speaker B: And if you said to, with more coaching, more helping people. Um, do you, it's a bit like, well, if you, if you spent the next, you know, I don't know if it was one, one person per month, let's say for the next 20 years, you'll only have so many that you're going to help versus potentially helping thousands. Is there something in your mind that says, how do I get my unique talent out to more people?

Speaker C: Um, it's a good question. I haven't really sat and thought about it. What I, what I am interested in particularly is inspiring women.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and actually getting women to understand life is not linear. So you can take a bit of time out for your kids and come back.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You can push through some of this stuff. You don't have to compete on the same level. You just need to be more strategic. And um, I think that's a big thing. You know, when you set out and you, you know, in your 20s and you sort of think, oh, I've got to do this, I've got to do this, I've got to do this. And you're on that, that sort of hamster wheel and you look back and you go, actually I did, you know, five years looking after my kids wasn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of the 50 I've been on the planet.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So I think that's why I want to leave people on my deathbed if, you know, take the route that you want to take and it doesn't matter if you meet your person at uh, 18 or 50, you know, whatever your path is, your path is. And don't try and impose your own limits on it.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I think that the self limiting thing is something it's quite easy to fall into, however, and I think I have up to a point, but I think it's very likely that I've not now because of the things that I'm doing. Um, and you know, as I say, small bit of credit goes to you for that. But at the end of the day, I think one of the things about, um, allowing you. The guy this morning, Kevin, what did he say about retirement? Don't do it. Don't do it. Now, I find that a little bit scary, um, because I want to get to a place where after maybe another three years or so, I do things that I want to do, um, other than the business. But I love the stuff that we're doing. And now I've got something that I can get my teeth into. And I just think, um, at some stage, is he right? Don't retire. You know, there's got to be an argument for, hey, hold on a minute. Got a wife, got grandchildren, all that kind of stuff. Not saying that they want to be around me, but the, the truth is, you know, for your own sanity, surely you want a bit of time to yourself. Although I don't know about you, Kevin, I'd hate to be on the golf course for the rest of my life.

Speaker A: Well, that's the problem. You'd hate to be on the golf course for the rest of your life. I'd actually challenge you in that situation, Graham, that says, wait a minute. Shouldn't you be designing into what you do now, that thing that you're promising yourself when you retire?

Speaker C: I agree.

Speaker A: Otherwise, when you do retire, you'd be too late to enjoy it.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah, I guess, yeah. Without going into some of the details, but, uh, yeah, I think so. Yeah. I think I'm probably doing some of that because I need some of the capital that's potentially coming my way that might give me a different path, my 70s. Because right now, um, you know, um, there's a limiting amount of opportunity with, with what I'm doing. But I see a different pathway and I want that pathway and I want, I want it with a passion now. So I think for me, I've, uh, found something that I think will keep me occupied. Lisa, I don't know about you. I mean, you've got Europe, you've got. I've got what, 10, 15 years on you. So basically, um, you can mess up a few times before you get to my age. And then easily, um, I think the

Speaker A: conversation that's gone on so far, I, I get the impression that Lisa's done the messing up that you're doing now, Graham, and got past it and she's plain sailing through the next 15 years.

Speaker B: Yeah, but you, you find your passion with this. 50, 18 or 50. I mean she said it all. I mean it gives me a like a free pass, doesn't it? But um, but no, seriously, I do think, um, uh, you can impact the world with the things that you're doing. I love the fact that you're helping children. That makes, and you know, some things that happen to children, you just want to um, exact real punishment from people. Um, and then you just think, um, you know, but the positive says how do you facilitate people being with children without letting them, you know, without costing too much and them saying no to your proposition. And I really do think that's so important probably of the things that you're doing. I know coaching's kind of important, but you could argue the children's more important because it's about the future of our world.

Speaker C: Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I, I think um, I think you make quite a good podcast host. That might be one way of getting your coaching and uh, dissemination out into the world is. I don't want to give you more work, but the end of the day I just think there's a, there's an opportunity for you to talk to other people, um, about. Because you're well read and you've got ideas and you've got, you've got thoughts about, you know, the, the next time you start talking about the pillars, you'll know what they are. I mean, I don't know what they are. You don't know what they. Kevin knows what they are. He's probably all, he's probably read up about that.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah, just got r off top head.

Speaker B: No, no, don't. You're outside because you've had a technical glitch which um, and it's nice. You live in North Yorkshire, don't you?

Speaker C: Somewhere, yes. This is actually on the Broughton Estate. I'm sat. Have you seen a woman of substance?

Speaker B: Um, I must have done.

Speaker C: Um, well anyway, I can see the woman of substance house. So I'm sat under a tree next to them and it's, it's so lovely. You kind of go, gosh, it must have been amazing to live here back in the day.

Speaker B: Yeah, well it's, it's quite close to where I live. I mean, look, Broughton, Broughton's about, I don't know, um, eight miles from where I live. So basically it's, it's not and, and because women, you mentioned women earlier, they hurl, um, themselves around the Broughton Estate. Was it called the Tough Mudder?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And they jump over fences and run through mud and, uh, look, a right state with the end. But it, it's. Yeah, that's community. That's, um, that's a wonderful thing. But they do that, that you brought on a state. So, um. Yeah, but, um, so you, You've, um, you've been a thoroughly interesting guest and you've put up with Kevin and I, I mean, Kevin in particular. I mean, being a, an accountant. Um, it's been wonderful, Lisa, having you on the next 100 Days podcast. Thanks for joining us.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: Graham covered a lot there and, um, I don't know, I'm just brought back to one thought. I'm saying that journey that Lisa went through, the early life, the pushing herself, the accomplishing loads of things, and then, uh, the complete rethink. Suppose everything you've been taught about time management and productivity was wrong.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. I. There's so much there. Um, she's obviously had, um, lots really good things, you know, you know, built a business, sold it for a million. Um, had some awkward things to do with personal relationships, but also just relationships and then, you know, come out the other side. Um, but she's interested in community. That's really interesting, this idea of bringing people together in a really positive way. Love the fact that she's doing that for children and parents. Um, but she also wants to do that for businesses as well. So she's got. There's a. There's a strand going through. It's just that hanging off different parts of it are children, families and also businesses.

Speaker A: It comes back to purpose. Yeah, there's got to be something that deeply motivates you to do what you're doing. Um, that also comes into that question about, oh, I'm going to retire. Well, actually, if you've got that purpose and you're doing the stuff that motivates you anyway, why is that retirement kind of question ever going to come up?

Speaker B: Um, because work isn't the only thing in the world. Um, I agree. You know, Kevin, I'm now 26. Uh, it's 45 years working M. Now, you know, that's a fair amount of time. There's probably people done a lot longer than me, but basically it's still 45 years and a lot of people, you know. But the thing is, once you take your pension, you do run the risk of health issues, whereas work keeps you going, has a purpose, and there must be some link to health just through having that purpose, through having that drive that is associated with work.

Speaker A: Yeah. There's a middle road somewhere, Graham.

Speaker B: Yeah, well, I don't.

Speaker A: I don't come.

Speaker B: Yeah, maybe that's semi retirement. Maybe it's partial retirement. Whatever you want, whatever that is, that might be two thirds retired, but so it's. As long as you give back to the people that you love, then basically the work can maybe handle itself. Kevin. I don't know. It's right on top of me right now. And, um, it's going to be an interesting theme, I think, for the next little while, uh, as we get through it. But, you know, um, Lisa, I mentioned her, uh, going to Cambridge in Oxford. She actually went to Newcastle University.

Speaker A: Of course. Yes.

Speaker B: Which is. Yep. Which, um, and got a very respectable degree there in economics. So you have to say to yourself, it's a bright girl. Um, and, um. So today, Kevin, it's been an absolutely fantastic podcast with Lisa Jane Watson, Heath of Kids Play Flat Cap Friday. Wired framework, formerly of PwC and Kubas and Librand, just like you. Um, an interesting guest. I've been Graham Arrowsmith.

Speaker A: I've been Kevin Appleby. Goodbye.

Speaker B: Goodbye.