Peter Costanzo: AI, Sensors, and the Next Era of FM Tech

Speaker A: Welcome to the Modern Facilities Management Podcast, brought to you by Flowpath. I'm your host, Griffin Hamilton. On this show, we explore how facilities leaders are reshaping the way we manage the built environment through technology, smarter processes, and a more strategic approach to facilities management. Welcome to another episode of the Modern Facilities Management Podcast. Today I am pleased to have Peter Costanzo join the show. Peter, how you doing?

Speaker B: I'm doing well. How are you?

Speaker A: I'm doing well. I'm doing well over here today. Uh, as we are recording and over my screen, the Masters has begun. And so I've been kind, uh, of looking at the screen, looking at golf here throughout the day, sporadically. So, uh, it is a beautiful time of year, uh, no doubt. And usually that's what the Masters means. But we're not here to talk about the Masters at all. We're here to talk about facilities management. So appreciate you taking the time to, uh, hop in here and share your expertise. Uh, and before we dive into it, why don't you tell the audience a little bit more about, uh, who you are and what it is you do.

Speaker B: Um, okay. So, uh, uh, I ended up in facilities management sales by mistake, um, about 25 years ago. Uh, I, uh, sold technology my entire career, and I was working with a company that was starting a facilities management software group. And they said, hey. Someone said, hey, I think Peter Costanza would be good for this role. And, uh, I have sold a lot of technology. I was thinking about it. I'm like, I don't know how exciting this is going to be and how difficult can it be to screw in a light bulb and track it. I never, like, dawned on me at that point, showing how stupid I was. What do you do when you're university? You have 100,000 lights on. It's a huge problem. Um, m. But I never thought I'd say it. Um, it is an exciting time to be in facilities management from a technology perspective. Um, there are all sorts of trends that are coming together that are going to be really powerful, helping facility managers better manage their facilities, and while they're doing it, saving a lot of energy and therefore a lot of money.

Speaker A: Yeah, and that's where I'm getting excited. Obviously, my, uh, background hits home for me, uh, quite a bit. But, um, before we go into kind of the details there of the state of the FM tech stack and more importantly, the future of it, uh, you mentioned that you got into this space kind of falling backwards into it on the sales side of things. And, uh, since you've been extremely Involved in the community and very much on the IT side. I know, um, you've been on the IFMA IT community board. So, uh, you're very well, uh, connected and very much in the know of what's going on in the, uh, IT space for facilities. Um, but I guess talk to me about that. That process of when you fell into IT and you got that sales position and kind of what made you stick around in facilities technology?

Speaker B: Um, what made me stick around is it got more interesting.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, uh, as I talk about kind of trends that I'm seeing of that, um, Autodesk. Most facility managers use AutoCAD to manage their floor plans. AutoCAD is a terrible tool for such a thing. It was built for engineers to design things. Um, but again, that's been a tool that we've used. Um, and, um, is point one, uh, point two is I look at things from a technology perspective. Um, there is, uh, an interest in workplace experience and that's driving a lot of technology because you want to, uh, make it easier for your employees to come in and book a space so people have their little workplace apps on their phone. Um, facilities management's kind of becoming more of a concierge for a lack of a better thing where we want to give people reasons to come into work. Um, and as a result of that, all of a sudden we're. Five years ago, I have a conversation, but it wouldn't include HR. HR is part of the conversation right now. Um, 15 years ago, I, uh, closed, uh, a deal at Caterpillar. I was really, really happy about it. I didn't talk to anyone in it.

Speaker A: That is wild.

Speaker B: As I engage people now, it is one of the first groups that we usually end up talking to.

Speaker A: Yeah. I find it interesting because over the years, you're exactly right. It has become more of a partner, uh, and absolutely someone that's involved, uh, in that process, especially if there's a new tech being evaluated. Um, what I have found has been, that has been interesting is that instead of it being, ah, kind of butting heads between the different departments that still exists. But I feel as though it's kind of shifted a bit more into more of a partnership, um, as opposed to different departments, uh, like I said, kind of butting heads, where IT is saying, oh, this is our expertise. And on the facility side they're like, you have no idea what we do day in and day out. How could you tell us what system to use? Are you seeing that to be, uh, the case or trends that, um, just in the Folks that you're talking to as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm seeing everything kind of tie together. It's uh, when I work with a client, it's a team effort. It's it, it's facilities, it's uh, process mapping. You're pulling in and looking at energy management as part of the, uh, whatever you're doing, um, which makes you both sustainable and green. And um, with the amount of energy that buildings use, um, it can have a tremendous positive financial impact if you can run them more efficiently.

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Speaker A: Taking a step back here, I know we um, talked about you getting into the industry and your involvement within ifma. Um, but tell me a bit more about what you're doing at ROI Consulting Group.

Speaker B: So, uh, roi, we're a boutique consulting group. We specialize in facilities management technology and we have two parts of our practice. Um, one part of our practice works with organizations and helps them define what their technology needs are, builds a roadmap and helps them select, uh, solutions that would work for them. Uh, on the other side of the practice, uh, we work with several of the integrated workplace management systems, um, out in the marketplace. Um, and then the other thing that we uh, do indirectly, um, because all of our clients are asking, we've got relationships with a bunch of different sensor companies. Um, and as I talk technology sensors is something that really excites me because I used to sell electronics before I got involved in this. What's in those sensors is incredibly inexpensive. The cost for sensors are going to come down, um, drastically over the next couple of years, which is going to be a boon for the facilities management industry, particularly since most buildings have a wireless network set up. Um, so it's kind of plug and play.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, I wanted to ask you that because I think it's important to lay the foundation of how in the weeds you are right now. And that is this is your world. And um, so I just want to lay that foundation to um one give you an roi, some um, due credit because what you're doing is pretty unique. I don't really come across too many consulting companies that specialize in the FM tech space. And uh, I think it's just the way that the industry's going. It's going to becoming more and more common and needed to get some guidance ah, from experts like yourself to help navigate these waters. That may be a bit choppy to some people but um, going into just generally ah, because ah. I want to talk through the progression of FM tech. Um Traditionally it seems as though when you talk to facilities professionals they're a bit reluctant to embrace technology or might not be tech savvy. Why do you think that has been the case traditionally until m. Right now

Speaker B: you can go to school and get a facilities management degree. Mhm. 20 years ago that didn't exist. So most of the people that uh, ended up being the VP of facilities started somewhere with a wrench um, and learned more skills over time. So they're the um. Because they didn't have technology skills. Technology was kind of a laggard if that makes sense. Um, and it um, has had been focused elsewhere than on facilities at that point in time. As you look at IT curves and what's happening. Mhm.

Speaker A: And I guess looking ahead as people are getting into the industry and there's more formalized schooling, it's still not nearly as common as it should be in my opinion. But it is at least an option as people are going in and getting four year degrees and masters uh, in the space. But um, do you think someone's technical aptitude would potentially put a cap um at their progression in their career? I guess if they have a limited technical aptitude, do you think that that caps their career limits?

Speaker B: The technology's moving so fast. Um, I'll say on one level yes, I think so. But the rate at which AI is moving, you're not going to be very technical to do a lot of things. You'll be able to talk to the AI theoretically and it will help you with the problem. So um, I definitely think it's uh, it's a plus. I'm not sure if it's going to be as much as a plus in a couple of years.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker B: Well I guess the other thing. Just one other thing. Sorry.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um. Back to my example of you know, the deal I closed 15 years ago. Traditionally we didn't get a lot of support from it, we're getting support from it now and that takes some of um, the pressure off the facility manager to be a technical expert because it's joining the conversation.

Speaker A: Sure, yeah. I mean that's a really interesting point because I think it is. Uh, we're in this weird middle ground kind of towards the back half of it, where a few years ago you did need to be a bit more technical, understand how to set things up and go beyond just uh, I know how to surf the web. Uh, you're not developing code or produce code or anything along those lines. But we've gotten to the point now, to your point, you could just interact and it's more so of prompting the technology to go and do its job. And it's not necessarily knowing how it actually works, it's just how to interact with it being the skill that is going to be a requirement moving forward. Uh, would you agree with that? I don't know if you think I'm off there.

Speaker B: No, I would agree with you.

Speaker A: That's what, uh, personally, as I've looked back, I've considered learning how to code and learning Python and getting the basics there just because I thought it would be important for me, uh, to have that better understanding. But then as it's evolved over the years it's just like, okay, well what kind of context am I providing, what questions am I asking? What's the outcome I'm looking for? And that's the important part. So, uh, I was curious if you were thinking that's the same on the facility side. Um, and I guess on that note, do you find people over the last call it 12, 24 months have been more open to having the AI conversation? Or do you feel as though folks, uh, you're talking to are still a bit reluctant or hesitant to fully embrace it?

Speaker B: Everyone's asking and as I, the FM industry, uh, is slightly behind. One of the things about AI, the power is you can analyze a lot of data and a lot of facilities management data isn't standardized. Um, and this will change, um, and there'll be a shift. But I see that as kind of one of the speed bumps, uh, so to say in terms of what can happen. But um, I use AI every day. The programs we work with are all building AI. Um, you flow Path has an AI engine. It's going to be part of everything.

Speaker A: Yeah. And for those that are still a bit behind or using, potentially using it as a chatbot, what do you think that, that first jump people should make going from either not using it at all? Or just using it as like a basic search engine or chatbot. And to actually leveraging the true power of AI. What do you think that immediate jump

Speaker B: is that you, um, speaking strictly from facilities, I think that people aren't going to do, need to do a lot with the first couple revisions that come out. So one of the things we can do now is do true predictive analytics with AI and um, that, that gives you the ability to have a check engine light on your piece of equipment, which you didn't know something was wrong unless it broke or you went there and something was happening. So, um, I think it's going to be important to be able to um, understand things technically. But the major computing powers are spending a tremendous amount of money in the facilities world. Um, so, uh, IBM has a solution. Um, and then the. On one side, Autodesk is working on a product called Tandem, uh, which is to help facility managers manage their facilities using building, uh, information models. Um, there's some other interesting moves. Uh, we work with Plan on who's been acquired by Schneider Electric. Plan on competes with FM Systems, who's been bought by Johnson Controls. They compete with Nuvola, who's been bought by Trane. And then Siemens, ah, bought uh, a, uh, system called Brightly. Um, and as you look at, I never thought those players would be involved, but they're looking to that next level saying, hey, we've got this equipment all over the place. If we can get to a workflow engine, we can more efficiently run the building where the building responds to the occupants instead of the occupants responding to the building. And you can have your H vac load be different when your floor plan is fully loaded as opposed to like when half people are there and conference rooms can be preconditioned and things like that. Um, so, uh, I'm excited. There's a tremendous amount of momentum in places.

Speaker A: So on the flip side of the momentum, what do you think is holding people back? What do you think is that initial barrier for people to. Maybe not their reluctance necessarily, but literally bandwidth or just maybe technical restrictions? I don't know. What are you seeing that's holding?

Speaker B: There is so much out there. It's figuring out where to start.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's, that's loaded. That's a loaded statement right there. Because, I mean, where, where do you think you, you start? I mean, what is that starting point?

Speaker B: Uh, and it depends, uh, on the organization. Um, so typically in the types of projects we get involved in, we're managing people and assets and usually there's a driver for one or for the other. So we do uh, we're based out of New York so we do a lot of space planning work because space is a premium in Manhattan. And then the other side where we see a lot happening, where organizations are saying hey we want to have an asset registry and better manage our assets and start turning on sensors and things like that so you can get to that kind of that predictive maintenance that uh, I talked about before.

Speaker A: Sure. So going away slightly from AI, I want to talk about the tech stack in general and I've been telling people for a while now that I think you mentioned earlier we're a bit behind as an industry from a technology standpoint and we're catching up slowly but surely. But I do see this becoming more and more common. Having a mature tech stack. Um, how would you define a ah, mature tech stack from what you're seeing out there?

Speaker B: I mentioned the comment earlier, the building reacting to the occupants. Um, that's the kind of tech stack I see coming out there now as I talk about that There are tons of technology entries. So some organizations are already. You walk in the facility and they know you from your phone and you're booked at Space 110 on floor five and it checks you in. Um, and that's kind of one area of technology, uh, low tech. You have the similar things with uh, if you're using badge scan systems. But I see the technology coming from all sorts of different places like sensors is a whole nother area um, that I look at. And then um, um it's nice to have it's attention because they have good ideas too. So there's a lot more integration.

Speaker A: Yeah. And that's the whole point. Right. Is having. It's pointless to have all of these data points if it's not telling you a story that you could take action on. And so having it all tied together and being able to interpret that to make it valuable, that's the whole purpose behind it, you know. Um, do you find any common gaps as people are starting to like piecemeal, uh, their tech stack together? I mean are there any common issues or gaps that you're, you're seeing?

Speaker B: No, uh, what I see is so diverse and part of the problem. You know. I also see as you talk about technology and all ah, the wonderful things you can do it in facilities. Um, historically the facilities management department wasn't a technical group. So there is a shift going on now kind of as we talked earlier to that from uh, what can be done. Um, but um, a lot of this problems programs we get involved in. Sorry, not problems is uh, organizations traditionally didn't keep their facility management technology up to date. Most of them are running old systems. Um, so um, there's a tremendous opportunity with the new systems that are coming out on the marketplace. I like there's an. I used to, you know, think I knew a lot about work order management systems and I would joke that there would be one new one every day. Well now they're like five new ones every day because it's a lot easier to code. Um, so there are a lot more options out there.

Speaker A: And so with so many options you mentioned that was one of the issues that people have. It's just like where do I even begin or how do I make a decision and know what's the right one? And that's where you guys come in. You're coming in as the experts, as the consultants and uh, this could be a whole other hour long conversation on the evaluation process. But what is your biggest recommendation as people are beginning to reevaluate their tech stack and looking at alternatives?

Speaker B: Think long term. So uh, I say that facilities management technology programs that work well mature over time and different people will use different stacks for different things. Um, but what you want to do is think long term. So uh, one example that's incredibly simple though it's not technical. Um, I always thought we do a lot of space management as I mentioned. So one of my first questions as we talk with people is hey, are your AutoCAD floor plans up to date? Most of the time the answer is no. Yeah, and that's a pure data you need to look at from a space perspective. Um, so people are at uh, different places.

Speaker A: So I guess on the long term side, how in that evaluate, how do you evaluate that? You know like. Because I mean I think there's so many unknowns and uncertainties. Um, I mean that's in facilities management in general of having to think of plan A, B and C. But when you're trying to find a partner and look at your tech stack and think long term, that might even cause more confusion or make you more hesitant to implement something because of the uncertainty there. How can you do your due diligence and ensure that you are making the right long term decision?

Speaker B: So um, we work with the facility managers, we talk to the people carrying the wrenches are usually the best um, uh portion. We um, have a lot more integration with it. And then again uh, like another whole nother third thing we could go into like um, uh Cisco has facilities management IP now to help locate people on a floor plan because they figured out how to use their WI FI networks, um, for indoor positioning. Well again, five years ago you couldn't do that. Um, so there are things happening in other places where um, there are more reasons to take a look at things. Um, but you got to take a holistic look and get it involved and get senior management involved. Um, and also, and specifically if you're talking office space, um, getting HR involved because it's more about getting, we want when someone gets them to the office to have a positive experience that they can sit down and plug in at any workstation or at any conference room. Things are standard. Sure.

Speaker A: And you know, I've said this all the time, you know, begin with the end of mind. You know that that's one of the common sayings out there. And uh, it's kind of hard to do that whenever you are, you know, you have that tunnel vision. You don't consult with the other stakeholders that will be impacted. They might not be power users, but they could be impacted by whatever decision you're making. And so uh, if I'm hearing you right, just making sure that you are getting that clear understanding of the desired outcome from everybody involved. Cause that will help you kind of triangulate what that uh, end state should look like at the very least.

Speaker B: I agree.

Speaker A: So on last item here is the evaluation process. And after going through that, the implementation is the most important part. Uh, post picking your partner, um, I've heard data points where it's 70% of some odd implementations um, fail. I don't know who made that up, if it's accurate, but I've seen that a uh, handful of times. How frequently uh, do you find that people have kind of botched the implementation process? And I guess second part of that, what can people do to prevent that from happening?

Speaker B: Unfortunately I see it a lot. Um, people understand that there's a price point to buy the software or the technology. Usually it's more expensive to implement it. And people try to save budget dollars by doing less of an implementation. And that's the most common thing that I see where uh, uh, I joked um, with a client once who uh, was running Maximo, which is uh, one of the best work order management systems in the world. And uh, they were printing up all the tickets and I said, you own a Maserati and you're pushing it around the parking lot. He said, I know, can you come explain that to my boss? Um, but just when uh, when this organization had made a decision they had pushbacks from the tradespeople that they wanted paper and they, they let them win. And uh, this was like, this is a discussion I had two years ago. It's not like it was 10 years ago when it happened. I see things like this regularly.

Speaker A: Yep, I, I had a conversation literally this morning, uh, with a team that was printing out their work orders still. So it's, it's really common, unfortunately. But, uh, to your point, it's, you're losing data and then they' goes the power of that tool that you invested in. But, um, well, Peter, certainly appreciate you taking the time to hop in here and talk shop. I mean, this has been a great conversation because I know it's top of mind for everybody. Uh, it is a bit challenging, uh, for folks listening of where to begin and how to evaluate and uh, what to look out for. Uh, but I think you've done an excellent job given that, ah, playbook there. And uh, for those that might be curious to learn a little bit more about, uh, who you are and what you guys are doing at roi, where could people find you and uh, reach out to you?

Speaker B: Oh, thank you for the shameless plugs. So, uh, we are available at www.roicg.com, uh, stands for roiconsultinggroup.com.

Speaker A: so roicg.com easy enough and I'll do one, uh, one better. And I'll have that link in the show notes for those that are, uh, interested in reaching out to make it a bit easier for folks. But, uh, before I let you go, I've got one, one last question and I, uh, want to ask, uh, everybody that hops on the show and that is who or what has had the biggest impact on you and your career?

Speaker B: Well, it has nothing to do with what I'm doing today.

Speaker A: Just, hey, that's. As long as it's impactful. You know, that's the whole fun of the question.

Speaker B: Uh, my first job, uh, before I got involved in facilities, um, my father had a company. I worked for him. Um, and uh, I have had a very close relationship with him and it was very interesting where you had someone meant. And he's mentoring me and he knew all of my faults, Uh, so, uh, he had a big impact on me.

Speaker A: That's incredible. Yeah, that is unique. I don't think many people have gone through that where, uh, they have that type of relationship, intimate of relationship. But, uh, like I said, Peter, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show. This has been great. And uh, for those interested in learning more. Like I said, I'm going to have, uh, his information, roi's information here in the show. Notes, uh, this has been a wonderful conversation. Hope those of you listening have, uh, had some solid takeaways like I have. And until next time, make, uh, sure to tune in, like and subscribe. And like, uh, I said until next time. Be good. Thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Modern Facilities Management Podcast brought to you by Flowpath. If you enjoyed the show, be sure to, like, subscribe and leave us a review. If you're looking for more content, make sure to reach out and follow us on link. Did. Until next time, be good.