Fire That Lasts - The Leadership Roundtable Podcast w/Dr. Conway Edwards (S6, E14)

Speaker A: Welcome to the Leadership Roundtable, a podcast with Dr. Conway Edwards, where our goal is to help you increase your leadership capacity. Let's get ready for today's episode. Welcome to the Leadership Roundtable, uh, podcast with Dr. Conway Edwards, where we get together every month and talk about how we can expand our leadership capacity. Now, before we even jump in, we want you to go to our webpage, visit1cc.com leadership roundtable. That's where you're going to see all kind of great resources, show notes and tools that we have here, and we're going to hop in today. Pastor Conway Edwards, you feeling all right today?

Speaker B: I'm doing good today. I got a good sleep last night. Uh, my whoop said I was, you know, above average recovery. So that's a good.

Speaker A: That's good. I need to check my recovery today.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, wait till tomorrow.

Speaker A: How about that? We got the whoop ready, and today we're talking about. We got together last month and talked about how to stay red hot while serving in ministry. So you want to go listen to that? But today we're going to talk about, um, a fire that lasts and moving beyond motivation to meaning for volunteers.

Speaker B: So basically, we're doing part two about volunteers. How to keep them fired up, how to keep them moving in the right direction, motivated, aligned with, fired up, ready to serve the Lord Jesus, the Christ. One of the reasons people often ask me about this, Andy, is because, um, we've started three campuses, and, um, we've started them with one staff, ah, person, which is not normal. Uh, most churches don't do that. And so, you know, we've got a couple of our campuses that are north of a thousand, and, uh, we have one person on staff, and people say, what? That's ridiculous. How do you do that? That's not possible. And so today we want to talk a little bit about, um, how do you get volunteers fired up, how do you select the right ones, and so on and so forth. And before we start, I want to just talk about the, uh, 2080 book, because we have, uh, five types of volunteers that we look for, which is volunteers with space, time, so that they can do things that others might not be able to. Uh, and some uniquenesses. So we usually look for singles, uh, uh, the most, what I call underused resource in the body of Christ. Uh, so we usually look for singles. We usually look for anybody in the military. They have a work ethic already that's already there. Anybody who is empty nesters, been through, maybe retired, and want to add value and create Meaning, uh, and legacy for their next season. We should look for that as well. And then, uh, who else we look for? Anybody.

Speaker A: New believers.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Fired up, just heard, just got saved, and want to do everything they can to get all their friends safe.

Speaker A: And then we look for people who are pk.

Speaker B: Yep. If you've served in ministry, you know how the flow of ministry works. So you don't have to. You don't have to disciple them in that area. And they usually are ready to go. Those are just some of the things that we think are vital. Why? Because they have space. And if you have space and time, then you can usually do things that other people can't. Who do we stay away from, Andy? People who have four kids, maybe five kids.

Speaker A: Be careful there. Four little kids.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, you got point. We let them take care and, you know, uh, the SAP of their kids. Well, uh, because the competing priorities will always be there. So those are some of the things. It's all in our book 80, 20. You might want to pick that up, and it might help you to see how you can inspire people to serve at different levels. What else we got?

Speaker A: Yeah. So we're going to jump in today, and that book lays out everything that we, um, that we do here at our church. And today we're going to start off by talking about what keeps volunteers energized. Long term. It's easy to get somebody started and fired up and rolling. But then long term, how do you keep a volunteer going? Uh, long term, and the first one we have. There is a clear purpose. People endure when they know why they serve, just not what they do.

Speaker B: You know, I think that's so, so vital, uh, as we do here at our church, we invite people to coffee or breakfast or lunch or something, and then we just. This is so important. Then we just hear their story, listen to what God is already doing in their lives. What we're really looking for is a theme that God has run consistently through their lives that they are unaware of. If you want to know what God wants done in the future, look at what he has done in your past. The illustration is Moses. Uh, you know, he, um, was raised in Pharaoh's palace. He learned everything there is to know about governing. And then he goes to Midian, and he stays some time in the desert. That's where he knows how to take care of sheep. And over 80 years, then you know what he has to do for the last 40 years of his life. Why? Because God was doing something he wasn't looking at. The time. But God was sovereignly doing something in his life. And now by the time he gets to, um, not only let my people go, but by the time he gets to the burning bush, he clearly knows what he's called to do. God had already worked it out he in his life. And so when you, when you take somebody out to hear their story before you have them serve anywhere, your assignment is to listen to the theme that God has been writing in their lives that they're clueless about. And then your job is to pick up on that theme and then find lanes that they can continue to run in. Now, they're not doing it because you've asked them. They're doing it because they see that it's their purpose, it's their calling. It's what God's calling them to do. So the motivation is no longer on your side. The motivation is on their, their side to do what God's called them to do. So that is why you have to take a long time to listen to the story to discern what God's been up to.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really good. And too often what we do is we spend so much time teaching them what to do and how to do it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And we get our trainings, get so focused in on, here's the X's and the Y's, and here's how you do all these things in kids ministry, student guest services. And there's no connection with the why.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And when you're just doing the what and the how, it gets tiring real quick.

Speaker B: It really, really does. And that's why people usually have a tendency to say, you know what? This is too much, I'm done. That's why people have a tendency to, when any kind of crisis happens, they deselect from church first. All because it's disassociated with their why. If you connect somebody's why, you've got them doing what God placed them on the planet to do. And you must remember, everybody is misaligned by the time you get to know them. And your job is to align them with what God's calling them to do. And so every time I meet somebody or talk to somebody, I'm trying to discern where is the misalignment. And then how do I get them realigned to what God's calling them to.in their lives?

Speaker A: That's really good. Well, number two on here, there's seven of these. Number two is you want them to see a visible impact. They need to see lives change because of what they're doing and what their

Speaker B: service is hugely important. In other words, your job is to give them glimpses of their investment and its impact in the life of somebody else. You've got to connect the dots between what God is doing in their heart and how when they use their gifts, boom, all of a sudden there they go and they're taken off because they can see what God does and it keeps them motivated over time. Yesterday, just yesterday I went out with somebody and they were telling me just a story of how, um, they grew up without mom and dad in the house and they're kind of really on the wild side and nobody wanted to hang out with them at school. And the nerdiest girl, this is 17 year old, the nerdiest girl, uh, in school tried to befriend her and she would say, no, you're too boring, your skirt's too long, uh, you're kind of weird. And she just kept on. Would you like to sit with me at lunch? Would you like to sit with me at lunch? Because she was sitting by herself and over time this young lady, ah, convinced her to sit with her at lunch and she completely shared the gospel of Jesus Christ, um, with her. She got saved. And today she's 45 years old. They're still best friends. And she lives in a different state. Still best friends. And she recognizes how her entire trajectory was changed because one nerdy, uh, girl who was a pastor's kid was not high fashion, was, wasn't anything. And how she individually changed the trajectory of her life and her family's life and to know that they're best friends today, that's why we do what they do. That's why we do what we do. Because your job is to connect people with what God's calling them to do and let them consistently give them opportunities to consistently do it over time and watch what God will do. You better believe, Andy. They're going to share that story together in our student ministry so that everybody can know. This is how consistency over time changes the trajectory of lives.

Speaker A: Because of that, it's a big deal.

Speaker B: Massive.

Speaker A: I'm going to jump over to number three. It's appreciation. Volunteers need appreciation. That's specific. It says general thanks fade quickly. Naming exactly when someone did well keeps dignity high. So what this looks like is there's a difference between just going to your team, who's greeters at your church and saying, thanks so much. Thanks for serving today, man. I appreciate you saying I appreciate you. There's a difference in that and saying you know what? I saw how when that guest came in, you had a big, warm smile. I saw how you greeted them, and I saw that, how you served. You get the difference that it makes when you do what you do. And I saw that, and I want to just appreciate you for that. That's so much different than just thank you. Your thank you didn't cost you anything. This takes real observation to do this.

Speaker B: Oh, it's absolutely critical. I remember meeting a couple, uh, in our church. They probably have been there, like, literally, uh, two or three months. And, uh, he was an actuary. And I got to talk to him, seeing what he's called to do, and so on and so forth. His wife was a stay at home mom. Um, their daughters had warned them, um, don't serve in no church. Don't do anything. And so she started serving just a little bit. And, you know, we joked around. Man, I can't believe you're serving. You've proven your daughters wrong that it's okay to serve in church. The next opportunity I had there was a basketball game, and we took m. Our staff went to a basketball game together, and we took them to the basketball game. And that's the only people I invited. And today, I promise you, because I told them thank you by inviting them to be on our. On our. On our executive team. Excuse me. Or executive team outing. They today serve at a higher level than they ever had before. All. Ah. Because I told them thank you. And I brought them to an experience with people that they would consider, uh, the inside track. And it changed the trajectory of their lives together in terms of serving at our church. Your assignment is to identify what you think somebody would really, really, really, really like, and then put them into that environment and watch what God will do. They were. They were, uh, Mavericks fans. Brought them to the game, enjoyed the game, and then from then on, started serving at a whole different level. It was pretty. It was pretty fascinating to see how one thank you went the long way.

Speaker A: Yep. Shout out Mavs. Mavs fan for life. Mfl.

Speaker B: Well, um, I want to say go Lakers, but they're not that good.

Speaker A: Yeah, nobody really is today. Yeah. Because you got our Luca, who tends to get hurt when you need him the most. But that's not the point of this podcast.

Speaker B: You might have to edit that out, but keep going.

Speaker A: So number four is rhythm of rest. What does it look like for volunteers to have a rhythm of rest?

Speaker B: No, that's good. So it's our assignment, I believe, to monitor the people that you serve with. It's our job to make sure as we, as we look at our teams, we're watching people's attitude, we're watching people's demeanor, we're watching people's passion. And when you see someone that starts to fade at any level, I think they can come and have the conversation. But, but I also think it's the leader's role to make sure you're talking to them, figuring out what they need, when they need it, and then giving them the opportunity to take some breaks or just having a regular rhythm where they know, hey man, you can serve hard for one month and then you need to be off for another month, and then you come back again just to have built in rhythms so that they don't think they're always 24, seven on. I think it's huge. And if you don't have it, people will start deselecting because you think they should be there all the time. So create margin so that they have time to go and do some fun stuff as well.

Speaker A: That's really, that's good. Now, uh, number five says growth opportunities, serving long term gets stale when there's no next step. What does it look like to offer next steps? Pipeline leadership. What are you thinking when you see volunteers?

Speaker B: I can do it, but I want you to tell me what you think about that one. But I'll tell you quick. I'll tell you one thing. I just think, I think everybody wants to mature. I think everybody wants to grow. Uh, I think the where we get it wrong sometimes is we don't have enough evaluations to let people know where they stand. And when you don't do that, you have a reason why they haven't grown, why you haven't given them new opportunities, but they don't know it. And oftentimes it's not fair to them because they're thinking, okay, I'm doing good, I'm on my way. But if you don't clearly communicate, uh, you're at a 7 now. We want you to be at a 10. You're not there yet. Here are four things you need to work on. Then it seems like you're just trying to hold them down. And I think that demotivates people over time. What are your thoughts on that one, Andy?

Speaker A: Uh, yeah, just thinking naturally. We want to know. I think most people, not everyone depending on your personality. Most people want to know what's next. And most people want to see what's my trajectory, what's my growth, what's my potential? And most of us have that inside of Us to want to know what's next. And if you're stuck in the same rhythm, it's like you're on a treadmill and it could feel like you're not getting anywhere. So it's really on us, because that's the goal of the leader and pastor in the church, is to equip the saints for every good work. So it's on us to have a pipeline or a series. You could almost look at it like, um, you could set up any ministry or any team, and you could set it up like Major League Baseball, where you have single A, double A, triple A, major leagues, and you could have opportunities that match what that looks like to be a single a double A. I mean, you might be a volunteer, then you might be a team leader of volunteers, then you might be a leader of leaders, and then you might be a leader who resources people. But those are all different steps. And it's on us to have those opportunities. And if we're not looking for who the next leaders are and give them opportunities, then our teams aren't going to grow.

Speaker B: I tell you something else that I've seen when you have multiple campuses is you've got to make sure that different team members get used across campuses. Because sometimes you can have an incredible person on one campus, but depending on them serving only there and nobody else knows where they are. When you're looking for somebody at another campus or another opportunity at another campus, they'll never get the opportunity because nobody knows them. And so even as a campus pastor or a ministry leader, it's your job not to hoard people, but to give them opportunity to work. And you also want to do that because if they can only work for you, then you have limited them and you don't even realize it. So you've limited them by saying, well, I like working for this person. I don't like working for nobody else. Then there are no opportunities anywhere else unless it's related to you. And that can be you, the leader, putting a lid on the individual, which then means that. That they can't grow to new opportunities at other places. And I've seen it over and over again at our church and at other churches as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. And at one point, four or five years ago, we had a campus and it was actually one of our smaller campuses that, like, we hired three people in a row from their volunteer team

Speaker B: to be on staff because Pastor Ron was killing.

Speaker A: No, I wasn't going to name names.

Speaker B: Yeah, he can name a name. Pastor Ron was killing. And he's one of the best developers of people. He really, really is. So he had literally three or four people had it full time on our staff from Pastor, uh, Ron's campus because he was that good and he was not afraid of sharing them and he wanted them to go at any level that they could, even if they outgrew his own campus. And that is a testament to him because of his development and selflessness about how he led. It was incredible to watch.

Speaker A: Yep. Oh, you're going to like number six. Number six is ownership, not just assignment. People stay longer when they feel trusted to be build, not just fill a slot.

Speaker B: And that's where I think the sophistication of leadership happens. That's where I believe that the leader must see himself as a builder and developer of other people. But if you're going to do that, then you got to give them, um, ownership and you cannot micromanage them, which means you've got to say, hey, man, here are the parameters. You get there any way you want to get there. But, but here are the parameters and here's the goal. I need you to get there. If they keep coming back to you, they're too close to you. You need somebody between them and you. Now we're talking about leadership levels. That's a whole nother podcast that we've done already. Um, but you need to make sure when you give somebody an assignment, you tell them what the goal is and you tell them, uh, the values around which we're going to get there, and then you let them go. They will not become an owner if they have to come back to you and find out all the details about what you want, how you want it, and they don't have a choice. So ownership means that they completely, it relies completely upon them to get the job and the assignment done, and you're giving them the resources they need to pull it off. Very often if they don't know their why, they cannot get the ownership. Very often if they don't feel as if you have given them the freedom to go and execute, then they don't feel a sense of ownership. They feel, I'm, um, loyal to you, so I'll do what you say. But they're not owning the ministry.

Speaker A: That is big, really is. And yeah, it's owner's mentality. Um, let's go to number seven. Let's go to number seven. Volunteers, uh, stay long term when there's a healthy culture. They rarely leave because of a task, but they often leave because of unclear expectations, poor communication, and feeling invisible.

Speaker B: Absolutely. At the end of the day, Pastor Matt, people leave. People, they don't leave churches. Mhm. At the end of the day, they don't like working with somebody. Somebody's too controlling, somebody is not organized enough. And so they decided to leave. And it usually is as a result of an individual, which means as a body, it's our job, organization, business, it's your job to create the right environment and to celebrate the people who excel in that culture so that it's only a certain type of person that can celebrate it. Uh, so the culture will spit out anybody that's not like this. Now in the church world, we believe those should be, those should be theological and biblical. But if you're doing it in an organization as well, you, you need to ask who thrives here, what kind of person? And then make sure that anybody that is not that person, they'll be so uncomfortable they have to leave. Which means you got to think long and hard and do the hard work of discerning what are our values, who excels here and how do we make sure that it's embedded in the organization. So people who are not like that, you just feel uncomfortable and they don't want to be there anymore. I think that's huge. I think when you do this, Pastor Matt, then you have. It's not the leader, um, it's not a leader speaking to an individual. It's everybody speaking to the individual. And it makes it healthier and it allows things to move at a much faster rate than ever before. I love it, I love it, I love it, I love it.

Speaker A: So those are what keep volunteers energized long term. I wanted to read through quickly what kills volunteers.

Speaker B: Yeah, let's do it. Go ahead.

Speaker A: I'm just going to read these and you pick the one you want to really go ahead. Number one, Doing the same thing with no fresh vision.

Speaker B: Oh my God.

Speaker A: Number two, Carrying too much responsibility for too long.

Speaker B: Hold on, let me get. I just need. I just, I need a fan. I just need. Number three. Keep going.

Speaker A: Being thanked but not developed. Number four, Serving out of guilt instead of calling. Number five, feeling replaceable. Number six, lack of relationship with the leaders and team. And number seven, no space to step back without shame.

Speaker B: My God, today I can talk about all of those because they suck the life out of people. Suck the whole life out of people. So, um, Pastor Matt, you just choose one. I can talk about any of these all day long because I think these are really, really, really, really good.

Speaker A: Go to number six.

Speaker B: What's number six?

Speaker A: Lack of relationship with leaders and team.

Speaker B: The way you pay volunteers is by you adding value to them. The way you encourage them, inspire them. The way you tell them thank you is by giving them access to you. Uh, the reason they're following you is not because of you. They should be following the vision. If they're following you, it means that you, you've got insecurity somewhere there and you got loyalty. And all you want is everybody to be loyal to you. It's the telltale sign of a self absorbed leader when you want them to follow you and not the vision. First of all, I could stay right there all day long, but I'm not. Let's keep going. So in light of that, the best thing you can do for your leaders is give them access to you, which is why you can't have 100 people report to you. The people closest to you must know they can have access to you and that you care deeply about them, their family and their future. The people who report to you direct reports. That is why you got to give them access. That is why on days when you have a holiday, for example, it's the day to invite people to just hang out with you. When you're not asking them to do anything. There's no urgency, uh, there at all. All you're doing is giving them access, letting them see how you interact with your family, let them see how you interact with the people closest around you just so that they can have access and feel like they're included in what you're doing. Pastor Matt, this is so very important for leaders to get. If you think you can pastor people just from preaching in this generation, you've missed it. You might need to go sell vacuum cleaners and get out of ministry, but you've missed it because they need access to you and to your family to see how you are just a regular person like everybody else. Boy, that's a word right there. Say it, Doc.

Speaker A: That's a word. That's a word.

Speaker B: All right, what do you got? Well, give me some pushback on that, Andy.

Speaker A: No, I've got no pushback. That's good.

Speaker B: That's because some people would say, no, I'm, I'm protecting myself. I don't need them that close to me.

Speaker A: Doesn't work in ministry.

Speaker B: It sure don't mature. Don't. I don't think so either.

Speaker A: That might work in corporate maybe. I don't know.

Speaker B: When you're paying everybody, that might work, but when it's a volunteer culture, they need to have access.

Speaker A: Yeah, No, I think, um, as you look at this, uh, there's a lot more on the next page. It walks through a whole 10 steps for your volunteer culture. Um, but really, uh, you'll see also on here, there's four things to do, and it's building relationships. It's call. Remind them why their service matters. Care, protect their heart, their health and relationships. Challenge. Give them something bigger to grow into and celebrate. Honor, faithfulness, consistently. These are just ways to do what we've been saying. And if you can have a system to roll through this every week or every couple of days where you're making these personal connections. Caring, challenging, celebrating what you're doing, this is really just showing you how to love people and how to disciple people, um, by calling caring, challenging and celebrating. So that's just four very practical things. Things you can do there?

Speaker B: You bet. No, again, if you don't have a, if you don't have a heart for people, then leading volunteers is going to be difficult. If, if, if you look back over your life and you don't see how people have opened doors for you, if you don't see how people have allowed you to get closer to them, if you don't see how people have helped you up, then what ultimately is going to happen to you over time is you're not going to want to do for others what somebody has done to you. The reason why I'm so passionate about this is because at 17, somebody did it for me, and then at 23, somebody else did it for me. And then that about 29, somebody else did it for me. And then about. At 45, somebody else did it for me. And all I'm telling you is, uh, I don't know why I've been this uniquely. That's what happened. And, and every single time somebody opened the door, gave me a hand up, decided that they'd give me a choice, a chance when nobody else would, that they'd believe in me, that they'd affirm me. And I just want to do it for as many people as I can. I don't know why I was so privileged to have, uh, that many people pour into my life. But I'm here today doing this podcast because I stand on about six people's shoulders that I would never be where I'm at today if it wasn't for them. I want you to do that for other people as well. That one of these days they'll come back and they'll say, you don't have, uh, you know, you might not even know my name, but here's what you did for me, and say thank you. Your assignment is to do for somebody else what somebody did for you. It's. It's. It's vital. Uh, it's life changing, and it's extraordinarily meaningful. And there are many people passionately crying out for, will you give me access? Will you give me an opportunity? Will you allow me to get close? Will you give me an assignment even if you think I can't do it? Will you trust me when nobody else would? And I'm telling you, they will forever be grateful.

Speaker A: Uh-huh.

Speaker B: If you give them those opportunities, all of them are not going to work out perfectly. You're going to give somebody an opportunity, and they're going to mess it up. Uh, Pastor Matt knows every year we do a retreat, and every year I try to bring somebody. He's gonna laugh at me now. Every year I try to bring somebody, I just call. Literally, I do this. Every year we do a retreat in another country and bring about 22 people. Every year, I try to bring somebody who don't deserve to be there. I just take them random from our congregation and say, hey, you know what? Our leadership team's going somewhere, and I want to give you a chance to come see what you can learn and see what God might want to do here. And I promise you, if we've done it for 15 years, 10 of those years, by about six months, they fizzled away, probably left the church, never, uh, did anything. Yeah, but the five. Oh, priceless. The five. So you're gonna say, but that means you. You had 10 wrong to get five. Somebody took a chance on you.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: And you were one to five. Why wouldn't you want to do it for somebody else? There shouldn't be a Sunday when you don't ask somebody to come join your team and see what happens next. Yeah, Pastor Matt, that's all I got. I'm done.

Speaker A: I mean, I just. The reality is you can't. You can't fake caring for people. Um, you cannot fake it. It's either there or it isn't. And that's something we all have to work. And it's. It's. It's pastors, it's leaders. It's, um. My family was recently in the hospital with a loved one, and we got to encounter nurses day after day. And we learned there were two kind of nurses. There were nurses who genuinely cared about making someone's experience as good as possible.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And there were nurses who knew how to follow the book. But the care wasn't there. They got the job done. Yeah, but the care in the bedside manner was different.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And coming out of the experience, you can tell the nurses, we remember the ones that provided that special care. And it's the same thing as we lead. When we care, people remember that. And when we care, it makes a difference. So we just have to search our hearts for, um, why we do what we do. And remember that. So.

Speaker B: And remember that your motivation.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is to. Is to help people get to where God wants them to go.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: It's not the church. It's not something blowing up. It's just, how do I give the next person the opportunity to use their gifts and. And really experience the abundant life? Because they put the kingdom first. And then he says, if you seek me first, I'll add everything else onto you. How do you realign people to the call of God on their lives? Pastor man, that's what we get to do every week. And it just blows my mind that we get to do that. And it's the most exciting thing I get to do. The sermon is not the most exciting. Helping somebody turn the lights on. Priceless. I'll do it every day till the day I die. I love it.

Speaker A: Well, that's how you stay on fire. That's how you keep your volunteers with fire. That lasts. Before we hop off today, though, I think you have something you wanted to tell everyone about.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah. So as a leader, uh, one of the things you have to consider every time is, hey, man, I gotta lead this meeting. What am I gonna do to lead this meeting? And so what we. What we have done, um, is created this thing called the impact stacks. And so in a number of different categories, one of them is strategy. They're just questions. You just take one card to your meeting, ask the question, and then you keep moving on. Here's one. Let me just shuffle these and just take any one randomly out, and then go from there. Let's take the one at the bottom. It says, uh, strategic clarity is tested by repetition. If your team can't articulate the strategy in their own words, it isn't clear enough. Don't move forward until everyone owns it. So then if I was leading this meeting, I'd say, guys, tell me the strategy. What are we doing here? What's your strategy as an organization? To reach people to Christ and to win people to Christ and grow them up in draft. Then I'd have everybody go around the table and say, all right, let me try just to make sure everybody's clear on what we're doing and why we're doing it. Well, we've got six decks, impact stacks that can help you and your church go, uh, a little bit further, a little bit faster. That's the opportunity ahead of you if you want it. Matt, how do they get one of these if, uh, they want to put

Speaker A: it off just while they're listening? Go to our webpage. We'll have a link on our podcast. It's visit onecc.com leadership roundtable when you're following along there, you'll see the links where you can go download, uh, you can go purchase those so that you can have those.

Speaker B: Or you can get at a bookstore, too. I think you can get at a bookstore. Just go to vidroncc.uh com bookstore and you'll see it there. And you can pick it up there. I think it's a great tool. Most of our cohort, pastors have them up and they're using it. And I think we'll help you whether you're in the business world, whether you're in academics, or whether you're in the local church. Either one. I think it'll help you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: All right, what else we got, man?

Speaker A: Hey, thank you for joining us today. We're grateful that you would hang out with us for about 30 minutes or so to talk leadership. And please, um, let us know what's impacted you by leaving us a review and sharing this with others. And again, Visit1CC.COM Leadershiproundtable. You can see all of the resources, show notes and other materials for you to download there.

Speaker B: Thanks, everybody. Appreciate you guys. Go lead courageously. All right, love you guys.

Speaker A: See you. Thank you so much for joining the podcast today. It has been an honor to have you here with us. Now, just want to remind you that all of the resources we talked about today are available online at ah, visit1cc.com leadership roundtable now. If this has been helpful, leave us a review. Go out there and hit subscribe. And more importantly, share this with your team so that everybody can grow. We can't wait to see you next time.

Speaker B: Great.