Why Bad Leadership Works - Daniella Young

Speaker A: Hello, welcome to Jason Cabinet Experience, I guess I believe for the third time, is my great friend Daniela Young. Daniella, thanks for doing this again.

Speaker B: Thanks so much for having me.

Speaker A: So, um, first off, how is the book coming along?

Speaker B: It is doing great. We did our second print already, and, uh, I mean, I talked with Khloe Kardashian about it on her show, so.

Speaker A: So how did that come about? I mean, Khloe Kardashian, that's, like, kind of random to me, right? Like, why would she reach out to you? Because she has her own podcast too, I guess.

Speaker B: Yeah, so she. A podcast that's just called, uh, Chloe in Wonderland. And it's kind of. I think it's like her angle of monetizing her fame just to allow her to have conversations with interesting people. So they actually reached out to my talent manager, and, uh, we went back and forth and whether we wanted to do it or not, you know, especially because it was not paid. And I'm mostly done working for exposure. But we decided Kardashian exposure was a different kind of exposure.

Speaker A: Just a little different. So you had a lot of too. Like, you had Karla Kardashian. You've been on Vice, Rolling Stone, Other ones, I think, New York Times. Other ones. I was thinking about, what do you think when you get these opportunities, you're like, man, I'm the luckiest lady in the world. Or like, I deserve this. Or like, whoa, like, how's this even happening to me?

Speaker B: I, um, mostly feel like I've worked for it and prepared for it and, yeah, it's expected. Um, not expected, but you know what I'm saying, there hasn't been one that knocked me off balance or was really shocking. I was wondering if I was going to be nervous at, ah, any of them. But, you know the interesting thing? It turns out that I'm the cult expert and they're not. So I'm just good at answering questions about my own life and my own expertise.

Speaker A: So in my opinion, you're a great public speaker. Right? Part of that. Cause you're extrovert with a capital E on it. Right. But have you always been a great public speaker or do you have to learn, like, uh, other people do, like, you kind of hone your craft, so to speak, to become the speaker you are today?

Speaker B: I have always been a performer, and, like, I have always been outgoing. You know, funny story, when I was two and a half growing up in an international cult in Japan, and we were doing a, uh, performance for about 250 people and there's a literal photo of all the other toddlers hiding cause they were too afraid to come out on the stage. And I just waltzed out and did the show in front of 250 people on my own. Um, that being said, you definitely have to develop your skills as a public speaker. I think separ, um, for a lot of performance, just throwing yourself into it is what you need to be able to do. And that's what I'm really good at, the public speaking. I definitely had to hone and like, I don't like to watch my TEDx talk because I was very new back then.

Speaker A: When you tell us before, I don't feel. I feel like, I realized, like when you speak in front of somebody, like we have a group of people here now, like, as opposed to spoken in front 100 people about being a helicopter pilot.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: They're gonna naturally assume he knows what he's talking about.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: You know, like, if you get in front of a group of crowd, they're gonna naturally ass. You know, you're talking about, I believe.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I call this front of the room advantage that when you're listening to someone introduced, you know, with this bio that generally they've written themselves talking about how cool they are, you're not usually sitting there wondering if this person deserved to be at the microphone. We just assume that this person deserves to be at the microphone. And it's something I used to talk to veterans about a lot back when I was doing networking, you know, training.

Speaker A: You gotta tell a story how you used to. You're the best person to do the take advantage of front room thing. You'd like, do that. Every event I saw you at, Even just as 10, you just saw my microphone. Like, I'm Danielle Young, blah, blah, blah, blah. People are like, who's this lady right here? She's not in the event space.

Speaker B: I still do it. I've just changed my tactics a little bit. But when I first got into the entrepreneur space and I didn't really know what my thing was yet, I had this LinkedIn trick for getting everyone to connect. And since everyone was at a networking event to connect, I would always get the organizer of the event to let me have the microphone for three minutes. Teach people something that's valuable. Right. It's like when you're on the microphone, you need to just like any other product or service, you have to give value to your audience and then they all want to come talk to you.

Speaker A: So your story you tell. Does anyone ever tell you, Daniela, this is not your place to tell this story, even though it's your own story.

Speaker B: I mean, some people try, you know, it is especially sensitive for fellow cult survivors who feel like it is our joint story. Um, I did a lot of work with that with my co writers of Uncultured, My first book, my memoir, because the way I would tell a group story was using a lot of weight, as much in the cult as in the army. And we went through a lot of kind of them teaching me that it's. I. But I also got this tip from a mentor of mine early on, which was ground everything in your story, because then it is hard for people to say, this is not your topic to talk about.

Speaker A: So your first book, it was through, uh, like an established publisher. The second one is pretty much on your own, with some help from this lady I met. Talk about the process between deciding to get away from the publisher, pretty much investing yourself, going all in on the book yourself.

Speaker B: Yeah. So the first time I wrote a book, I ironically decided I wanted to do the big traditional publishing deal because I didn't want to have to sell myself. And I thought, like, I think a lot of other people think you get a big book deal and then that's it. You're now a popular author. And maybe that used to happen back in the day, but one of the notions that I was very disabused of was that the traditional gatekeepers know how to do it right. Right now, everything is about going viral, and nobody knows how to predict what's going to go viral. And it turned out that I still had to learn how to get on the Internet, build a platform. And to date, I have sold about 85,000 copies of Uncultured. And a lot of that is because I got on the Internet every day and started influencing my own book sales. So then fast forward to Culting of America, which is my second book. I still wanted to use the publisher just because I think everybody likes it when somebody else writes the big check up front and takes the gamble. And with the big publisher, you don't necessarily have to pay back the advance. It's them betting on you. And in part, I think, because I had not yet bought out my advance of Uncultured, they decided to pass on the book. Um, I actually pitched them two different books, a second memoir. And then they said, well, what if you write a book called Culting of America? And I said, okay. But I made a deal with myself, especially because this book was a research book, that if I did all the work to figure out what that book was going to be put together, a proposal. You know, it was about six months of work, and I said, fine, but I'm writing this book no matter what. Um, and during that process, it was actually writing. Culting of America was how I learned how to build my platforms, you know, and now looking back, I always say that memoir is hard to sell because it's hard to convince other people to choose to spend their precious time reading about you. And so when memoir authors just talk about how amazing their story is, which, I mean, I very much have a unique one in a billion story that I tell here. But what I had to learn and what I'm now pretty good at is getting people to understand how my story is gonna help them learn stuff about themselves. Like, my memoir is really about you, the reader.

Speaker A: And didn't you outsource the book, too, to your. To your readers or your fans?

Speaker B: Um, yes. So with Cultic of America, I definitely wrote this as a crowdsourced book in that I got on TikTok the first day that I sat down to write, and I just said, I wonder if people want to know this stuff that I'm going to be talking about. And, you know, turns out, if you're willing to be in the comments talking to your audience, like, they will give you a lot of feedback and including things that I didn't quite understand yet. So my favorite example is underwear. I went to my audience and I was like, why are cults always controlling underwear? Like, I figured this out when I was writing my memoir. I was like, okay, so in the Children of God, they were checking our underwear to make sure we weren't wearing it at night. It was very creepy. Nobody wanted it in the book. But I was like, no, I know it's important because in the military, their underwear requirements, again, turns out I didn't even know that, like, East Coast WASP people have rules about underwear that are passed down from mother to daughter. And I was given all of these different things. You know, there's another part of the book where I'm talking about justified lying. And, like, right before it went to press, someone told me about Nietzsche's concept of Pia Frau's Pious Fraud. And it's a great roll up to that section that I just wouldn't have known about or come across on my own necessarily.

Speaker A: And so I met this lady in Dallas with you. I think her name is Saya, your publisher. Can you talk about how that relationship with you and her came across or came about?

Speaker B: Yeah. So when I decided I was gonna do the book self publishing or part of why I decided to self publish it was because the woman that I wanted to co write the book with me, Amy Reed, who had been on the co writing team for Uncultured, she was now working as the full time editor and editorial director for this indie publisher, Otterpine. And so she introduced me to Sei Wood. Seiya Wood is a Korean American Navy veteran who is a logistics officer. And she got out of the military and she decided she was gonna use her connections in Asia and now pretty much across the world and her logistics experience to help publish books at any level that the author wanted in a like least capitalist kind of company possible. I really like the mission. And not to mention we're both veteran women and we both knit and crochet. And so when I said something like I want to make knitting needle swords to launch with my book, she was all about it. And now we have knitting needle swords.

Speaker A: So I, uh, hope I asked it the right way. Let's suppose someone else is telling you do all this stuff, right? They would accuse that person of exploiting you, right. So do you think you're exploiting yourself?

Speaker B: I was just having this conversation earlier today. I like to say that I am the only one that gets to exploit my trauma now. And people try to talk about that like it's a dirty thing. And in fact, part of why I wrote my first book was because I have all this pain and I have all this trauma and this crazy background that kind of makes me not fit anywhere. And so I wanted to turn it into something now. One of the things I talk about in the culting of America in cults is the exploitation of labor. And I have recently realized I think I'm exploiting my own labor a little bit too much. And I need to like, set some rules about not working on the weekend, et cetera. But I mean, it feels really good and really healing that I got to take my stories and my trauma and turn it into something that helps other people. And then I would also say I was surprised by the fact that it helped me more than I thought. Like other people have helped me more than I thought that they would.

Speaker A: Can you talk some about how your relationship with your mom has evolved over the years?

Speaker B: Yeah, so my mom was born and raised in the cult as well. Had me at the age of 15, was not very involved in raising me because of the cult, because we grew up in communes and she was off having her labor exploited. And then I was out of the cult when I was 15. Now you know, the one very interesting thing about my mom is she was a absolutely true believer at the time that I was leaving the cult. And yet she still encouraged me to go. Um, because she said that, you know, later when I asked her why, she said that she could just see in my eyes that I was unhappy all of the time. And so she wanted me to get out of there.

Speaker A: And so how many, like, brothers and sisters do you have?

Speaker B: I have 25 siblings.

Speaker A: So why do you think you kind of answer this? Why do you think she only did this with you and not the other ones?

Speaker B: I, um, mean, I was her oldest. Like, she's only the mother of eight of those siblings, and I think she was a true believer, and she still wanted all of her children to end up choosing to do this with their lives. Um, and then eventually she got out with most of the other kids, were still fairly young when she left with them. So I don't think it was that much of a choice as just her seeing that with me. But I will also say that outside of the cult, she has developed into the kind of parent that just has a very individual relationship with each one of her children. And that is something pretty cool about her.

Speaker A: Let me ask you this. Um, what responsibility, if all, do you think you have for the action your followers? So what do you mean by this? So we was in Dallas, and I didn't tell you before, so it's me embarrassed. And we'll talk to one of your followers. Rob, when you're super fans, don't be super fans. Here's somebody, you know, like, how you're great, like, he listens to you, blah, blah, blah. And then that's like, he went to, like, I'm paraphrasing. Elon Musk is a die. I don't be the one who kills him. I'll, um, be so happy my life, I'm the one who kills it. Right. So, like, what responsibility you have? Those. Those kind of people, like that. Right. It's like, you know, if that makes any sense.

Speaker B: Yeah. So I talk about quite a bit, and there's part in the book where I talk about how fans are not group followers. You know, like, social media chose to label it followers. I think it's a little culty. And I spend quite a lot of time telling people, like, I'm not your leader.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like, I am, um, an expert that's here giving information. And I think my responsibility is to give good information. I also spend a lot of time trying to help them, not deify me. Like, not turn me into a God. And one of the things that I have always done, which I think is why I've built such an interesting channel, is bringing in other people, right. Other people's works. Other people have helped me write my books. Culting of America has 400 endnotes. You know, I'm not doing anything in a vacuum. So even if somebody does get obsessed with me and my content, which often people do in the beginning of their deconstruction, they're still not getting isolated just with my voice. But I. This example right here, like, I do not think I have any responsibility for this man.

Speaker A: You see me and Barry looks at like what I know. You give someone to look like, what the hell, you know? Yeah. So is there ever an instance where group think is actually a good thing or can be a good thing?

Speaker B: I don't know. Um, I m. Think that sometimes in order to avoid very large disasters, you need to have a bit of group think, and you also need to have some authoritarian leadership. But I also don't like either of those two things, and I think that they are very, very problematic. But also, it's not something that we can actually avoid. I always say the answer to if your friends jumped off a cliff, would you? Is yes for about 97% of people.

Speaker A: Yeah. Obviously depends on what friends they are too. You know, the brand new friend. Maybe not.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, one of the animal things about us is the way that we tell what is safe to do is what other people around us are doing. And we've evolved to have so many dangerous or crazy things that we can do. But our brains have not evolved beyond the group think in a lot of ways.

Speaker A: So your bio list. Author, speaker, veteran, call survivor, mother, human. Which one of those are, like, you like, speaks to you the most right now? Like, right now? You are. Which one of those?

Speaker B: I mean, I think all of them.

Speaker A: Maybe I'd pick one. Putting on the spot. Yeah.

Speaker B: I think sort of. How do I say it? Like multi. I'm m. Blanking on the word, but I will say artists, you know, Like, I am not. I actually thought it was weird when I had to introduce myself as an author all the time because I was like. But I'm not, uh, just an author right now. I've written a musical. I sell paintings, you know, so it's. I see myself as someone that is helping to build the language for cult babies, for the survivor community. I like to say, entrepreneur of words and ideas.

Speaker A: Tell me the process. And, uh, I've seen me everyone in the room seen you to go through this, that process of making yourself a brand and monetizing yourself as a brand.

Speaker B: You know, I started out with a very firm belief that I was the unique value proposition. And I knew that I was trying to turn my stories and my experience and the wisdom, I guess, that I thought I had gained into a brand. Um, and it was interesting because in the entrepreneur world, a lot of people didn't think that was possible. I also think that I learned so many things from entrepreneurship that a lot of people that are trying to build brands don't have. Um, so the idea of what problem are you solving and being able to sort of iterate on that. Um, but also, I spent a lot of time trying to do things the way I thought I was supposed to do things. So, for example, I was like, I want to talk about culture and leadership. So I guess I'm going to do leadership consulting. And that was sort of me and my personality fighting with what I thought I was supposed to do. And, you know, it's very interesting. I remember in our entrepreneurship program, actually, I heard that there are a thousand books on good leadership published in English every day. And it's really, really hard to make your mark, you know, in something that is that noisy. But when I actually asked myself, what do I want to do? Like, people keep telling me to clean myself up, be more professional. People keep telling me that you can't make money just focusing on the bad guys. But that's what I wanted to do. And ultimately, I had a very clear moment where I said, you know what? I don't care about groups. I'm an expert in groups. I'm getting this master's degree from Harvard in organizational psychology. And I don't actually care about making these companies better. I think I want to focus on individuals. And now this has evolved into what's working very well for my brand is I wrote a book about bad leadership, and I talk about being an expert on bad leadership and bad groups, and almost nobody is doing that.

Speaker A: So you found, like, a little niche, so to speak.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, now everybody's like, bad leadership. Brilliant. Um, but three years ago, everyone was like, what are you going to do with that?

Speaker A: So back to Khloe Kardashian.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: I remember correctly. You did the interview with her, and you got so much flack on. On social media. Right. How dare you go on her show. How dare you give this person, you know, um, whatever you want to call it, your audience, you're right. And you, like, you know what I mean, you said about this, we say, basically, screw all y' all if I have a platform to tell my story. And you even said, like, if President Donald Trump. George Trump said come do interview, I would do it. Right. And I think that's. That speaks volumes. Right. Because, like, you tell your story to everyone that listens to. Right. Who knows, you might convert someone.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, you know, I'm always calling out the cult aspect of it. And there was a lot of this, like, well, why are you talking to them? They're the bad guys. They're the outsiders. And I was like, well, this is very us versus them thinking. Right. And kind of thinking that, like, you're a better listener than other people. You know, I think that there's so much of this toxic group behavior in everything. And I especially know. And this was the epiphany that Chloe had on her show. Like, when I found out that there was actually language for single family cults and individual two people relationships being cults, I was like, wow, this is stuff I want everybody to know about. And so, yeah, I'm gonna get on pretty much any platform and talk about it. And I also think going on somebody else's platform is very different than choosing to platform somebody on your program. That's what I keep telling people is like, she invited me there to talk about me and my story and my message. I can pretty much do that on any platform.

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Um, so a lot of people tell themselves, you know, I'll never fall for a call. I'll never fall for a scam. I never fall for this. They're so confident. Right. That confidence actually makes them more vulnerable to falling for that stuff, doesn't it?

Speaker B: Yes. Especially thinking I'm too intelligent or I'm too critical. Um, you know, I also think people think there's some sort of magic involved in brainwashing, and there really isn't. Um, one of the things I tell people is that. So first of all, I do think there is one type of person that is immune to cults, and that is the Samwise Ganges of the world.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like, if you are 100% completely happy with where you are in life, it's gonna be hard to manipulate you. However, I don't think any individual person should think that they are immune. You know? And, uh, I even see this in groups or companies. Right. Like, we're the good guys. Well, it's always low threat. It's never no threat.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So I think that as soon as you start thinking you're safe, that's part of your blind spots. And this is actually a very good time for this question because I almost got scammed in a super deep level scam yesterday. It was like a podcast with a million followers trying to ask me to come on. And then all of a sudden, I'm in the tech check and somebody I don't know is requesting remote access to my meta accounts. And I was like, whoa, no, right. But it was like, they're getting very sophisticated with this kind of stuff.

Speaker A: How many people fall for the medium podcast thing?

Speaker B: And three people had checked this out. Like, this wasn't just like, something random that I did. It was like my team was checking on this and we still got all the way to request remote takeover. And I was like, I literally had to tell myself, like, nope, no interview is worth this.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Um, so did you. You finished first in college in high school or just college?

Speaker B: College, College.

Speaker A: So you graduated first in college. Came an arm officer. They're very successful. Why do you think? Some people like you are very driven, very focused, and, like, have. What do you want to call it? But most people don't have it because DNA raising. Raised like internal. Whatever your husband tell you, make more money. What is it?

Speaker B: You know, he does put a lot of pressure on me to buy him airplanes and boats and stuff. Um, I don't even know if I know how to answer this. When I got out of the military, the lieutenant colonel that I work for, who was a mentor of mine, sent me a box of about 10 books he wanted me to read. And one of them was Grit, by Angela Duckworth, who kind of did a, uh, she did a study on West Point students to try to see if we could predict who was going to make it and who didn't. And, you know, I have no full siblings, so it's hard for me to say if it's DNA or nurture. But at least with my half siblings, who grew up with half of my DNA, in the same situations as me, there are very different outcomes where some of us just seem to have this motivation and some of us don't. So I think it probably has a lot more to do with personality. You know, I remember when I was getting out of the cult when I was 15 years old, dropped into the world terrified, had no reason to believe I would be successful. But I was like, there's 10,000 people hoping that I'm gonna fail from the cult. So, like, screw them. I'm, um, gonna prove them wrong. You know, when I joined the army and people look at me as this little blonde Barbie doll that can't do anything. I'm gonna prove you wrong. And like, people underestimating me has always fueled me to prove them wrong.

Speaker A: Hey, real quick, tell the pink running shoe story. That's our major.

Speaker B: So the one thing that the army doesn't regulate about appearance is tennis shoes. Just, I think, because it's too complicated. So I would always have essentially really bright pink running shoes. And many times this happened to me where we would just have gotten done doing our physical fitness test.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Like, we are literally running four hour jobs. It is part of our job description to be good at this. I ran a 12 and a half minute, two mile. Right. So I would be done. Everyone else would still be running at this one very specific time we were deployed to Kandahar. And the sergeant major comes up to me and he says, ma', am, your shoes are very unprofessional. And I just looked at him and I was like, sergeant Major, if we want to talk about how bright colored shoes are unprofessional, that's one thing. But like, that dude has bright blue shoes. That blue has highlighter yellow shoes. That dude has highlighter orange shoes that nobody told him look pink when he's running that far behind me. So, like, I literally.

Speaker A: I like Leanne running that far behind me. Yes.

Speaker B: I literally just outperformed these men at their jobs. And you're telling me that my tennis shoes are unprofessional.

Speaker A: So your mother, you're a mother now. How has your upbringing affected how you raise your daughter? Obviously, like, your daughter's not going through. You did. But a lot of times parents, like, we're like, we. We throw a lot that we're at. Ah, we don't want to. Kids go to the same thing. But then we say, oh. Or tell our kids, oh, you're not, you're not tough enough. You didn't go through that. We did. Right. So how do you, like, how do you work through that?

Speaker B: So, first of all, having a kid is really what made me realize that I needed to work more on my own. You know, what we call deconstruction and healing and all that. Because I found myself getting very triggered and did not want to be responsible for passing down a lot of trauma. And also I was starting to realize that just choosing the opposite of how you were raised is not necessarily healthy,

Speaker A: because sometimes you go too far the other way.

Speaker B: Exactly. Um, I will say I had a very, very black and white view of, like, I will not hit children. And that had a lot to do with my upbringing. I think that for both my husband and I, who were both soldiers, we met in the military, the hardest part is that we have a very, very opinionated child who has always done her own thing.

Speaker A: That can be, I know, personal firsthand. That can be a good thing and a bad thing.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And she doesn't have this good little soldier mode to snap into because we haven't trained her in that. But because we were both raised being expected to, you know, shut up and sit down and listen to adults and be very controlled, that. That has been difficult. Um, and then, yes, it is also hard that because my husband and I have worked very hard for our success, we feel like our kid doesn't appreciate it. You know, she takes money for granted, but I feel like that's on us to just understand that she's not. You know, you learn the value of money by being poor and she's not in that situation. And it was.

Speaker A: I mean, she was born to a middle class family, right?

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: And it's very similar to how when she was born, I raised her in Portuguese and exposed her to Brazilian culture. But ultimately I had to accept the thing I think a lot of immigrant parents go through, which is like, I'm not gonna be able to pass down the love of this country and culture to her in the same way that I have it, because she's just not having those same experiences, you know, up to the fact that part of why I love Brazil so much is because when I was outside of the cult, I was in Brazil, and like, that was a bit of the escape. And then we'd have to go back behind the commune walls.

Speaker A: So, as your daughter, do you think it would change if she had a brother or sister? I think these would be the same thing.

Speaker B: My daughter didn't breathe for seven minutes because nobody asked her if she wanted to be born. I mean, I think she has been her person ever since she. She came out. Um, but I also know that, like, being a sibling, you know, like when I was writing my book, it was very important that I talked about being an older sibling, because of course, that has a development. You know, I think a lot of older siblings get parentified or they're taking care of other children. And I'm kind of glad that my child doesn't have that. However, it also can teach you a lot of life skills. And it's just one of those things that you never know. You know, you can't predict if it would have been better or worse.

Speaker A: So two part question, right so most of your cult was in Brazil, correct?

Speaker B: No, it was international initial, but part

Speaker A: of it was in Brazil, right?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And so talk about how even though it's not, most people say, I was gonna call to Brazil school Brazil, but you actually have a very good relationship with Brazil. You actually just came from trip to Brazil, right? Can you talk about that a little bit?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, so first of all, there's that this piece, right, where like when I realized subconsciously that when I was out in public I was safer.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker B: You know, exactly. To the point that like nobody was going to hit us when we were out performing on the streets. We were going to be allowed to eat sugar and other things that were never allowed. And Brazilian people are very, very friendly, very, very kind, you know, so there was a lot of love for that.

Speaker C: Also.

Speaker B: I think I had just a really hard experience coming to the U.S. i mean, being 15 and being dropped off in a place you don't know is going to be extremely hard for anyone. But because I looked American and sounded American, nobody understood, even me understood like why I was fitting so poorly. And being from Brazil just became part of my explanation. Um, one of the cool things about raising my daughter in Portuguese was we decided to have an exchange student to come help. Just help me with Portuguese in the home while we were hosting her. And we fell in love with this kid. She's definitely part of our family. And she's from a completely different part of Brazil where I grew up, the part that has the best beaches, it's called Recife. And so now it's like I don't have to go back to the parts of Brazil that were triggering and hard for me. Like, I went back one time, I did that trip, I went shopping at the market that I was begging out in front of when I was 12 years old. And now I just have a part of Brazil that is not painful anymore. And I have a family, because she's from a lovely family who is very supportive of her. And we are now part of that family. And that has been healing, I think, for both me and my husband, because we were not from families that were supportive in that way.

Speaker A: So one thing that's still amazing this day is how people try to go on your platforms and try to say stuff like there's never been a female combat or there's all kind of batch of crazy stuff, right? And I mean, some females say it to million men, right? And do you think like to yourself, man, what an idiot. Or you're thinking like, ching, ching. Cause you're making me money because you're engaged with me, right?

Speaker B: It's both. It's definitely both. You know, I regularly say that the comments about how stupid my rainbow colored hair is pays for my rainbow colored hair. Um, I definitely. When it's something that is explaining the military to me and they're just flat out wrong or they're telling me to put a shirt on or something, I. My first thought is, ching, ching, I'm m gonna make one of these videos. Um, and, and that is fun for me.

Speaker A: But I love how you make a video with a person's coach up in the top corner. Like, point up there, this person said, blah, blah, blah, let me break it down. While he's like, of course you don't say, because idiot. But you basically say, let me break it down how you saw wrong. And I'm, um, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, and it's, you know, it's interesting because people will judge me based on my appearance and they never think about the fact that, like, I'm doing this on purpose. You know, I am fully aware, first of all, what my background is, and I'm also fully aware that I don't look like a former army captain with two bestselling books and a master's degree from Harvard. But I'm gonna win that encounter, you know, because again, people underestimating me has always gone well for me.

Speaker A: This is like amazing me. Like time after time, like, have you even. They just scroll through your content. You'll see like, man, maybe I don't want to say that right there, you know, maybe, maybe I want to DM her privately, you know. Hey, Danny, I think about this, you know, instead of like a publicly, like, I didn't know. One time, I think one time you had like the one of first, um, crest on your shirt and someone said, what are you doing with that on? Or something like that. You never don't let females in units like this or something.

Speaker B: Crazy cultural appropriation they called it. And I was like. And they'll be like, how did you get that? No, there's one way to get a 101st combat badge, and I did it twice. And I mean, even with people being like, how dare you say that? It's like the infantilization of like. No, I went to the army records department and asked them what I was allowed to say. You know, my book had to be cleared by the Pentagon. And so now it's just, it's fun. I mean, people accuse me of making up my story and I'm like, wow, you must think a lot about my intelligence that I was able to fake being an army captain so hard that I even get a picture with President Obama in the White House.

Speaker A: Stuff right there, man. Um, but you do talk about controversial stuff a lot of times. Was that a constant decision to talk about controversial stuff or just came naturally as your platform grew?

Speaker B: It was a conscious decision. Um, and I think it's because I kept having to set that boundary in my personal life of people being like, well, we just don't want to talk about this. We just don't want to talk about bad stuff. And I finally started saying, well, I don't do off limits topics. If it's something I want to talk about and something I feel like I have information on, I'm going to talk about it. But also, being controversial is good for business, especially as a creator. And that's what I guess is kind of fun about all the haters. Because it's like, I mean, it's emotionally harder when people are telling you you suck all the time. But it's the same amount of money whether you're telling me I suck or whether you're telling me you love my content and it changed your life.

Speaker A: And for me, it's like, you know, my criticism always comes from like, user 19321, anonymous. Um, for no picture, no users, you know, probably a bot, you know, so.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. But, you know, I always say this to people. It's like when I am responding to a comment, I'm doing it for the sake of my whole audience. And one of the reasons that I choose to respond to trolls is to model the behavior for other women that you don't have to just take.

Speaker A: This has been a time where someone gave you a bullshit comic, something m off the wall. You responded and they came back and said, oh, I apologize, I was wrong, you were right.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: Okay. Yes.

Speaker B: And there's also times when they come back and say, oh, I didn't mean it like that. I meant it like this. And then I will sometimes apologize, like, if I have taken it m completely wrong. But sometimes I will also push back that they should learn to sound less like trolls.

Speaker A: Um, what's your. What's your biggest platform right now? I know it used to be TikTok.

Speaker B: It is now YouTube and Instagram. YouTube is definitely the one that monetizes the best. That's the one where I tell people to start off. Um, because YouTube, you can monetize for ad content and for products to sell, which is what I do. But I'm I mean, I'm at around a million followers across. I think it's seven platforms at this point.

Speaker A: Okay, nice, nice. Um, so next, let's talk politics real fast.

Speaker C: Of course.

Speaker A: So we're both from Texas. Right. And I think everyone, Everyone. This, everyone in this room is probably Democrat. I consider myself Republican.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: This obviously a good conversation. Right. So, um, in Texas, they're doing a center race between. I think it's Ken Paxton and the Democrat. Right.

Speaker B: James Talarico.

Speaker A: I. I'm not saying this guy James guy's gonna win, but he's gonna get a lot more voice than people think he is. Right. I think. What's that guy from El Paso ran a few years ago. Everyone's like, kind of hopped on him.

Speaker B: Beto.

Speaker A: Yeah. I think he's gonna do better than Beto's gonna do because first he's a Baptist minister. Um, I just did his podcast with Joe Rogan and like, I would have voted for him. Right. Instead of Republican. Right. And Ken Pax, he just has so much dirt. Affair with his wife, scandals, whatever. I think President Trump made a big mistake, um, endorsing him over the other guy. Right. I just. I don't know. It's like, I think. I don't know if he can win, but I think that guy's gonna stock a lot of people in Texas.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think.

Speaker B: I mean, both sides are concerning to me. Right. I think that it's interesting that Trump went on this revenge tour in the primaries and a lot of his base is unhappy about that. And, uh, that was the crack in the brainwashing for a lot of people. But also, it's really hard for Democrats to win in Texas without the black vote. And it seems like black Texans very much do not wanna vote for James Talarico, and they're willing to have Ken Paxton, who's the devil they know, because they're so mad at Democrats for just assuming that they have the black vote.

Speaker A: Do you think it's too. Because he beat that Jasmine Crockett and they're like, jasmine Crockett lost. So we're going to take on a toy summer and go stay at home, so to speak.

Speaker B: But I think it's because of how white voters treated Jasmine Crockett and because the electability argument is kind of a sham.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Anyone's electable if everybody votes for them. And so what I'm seeing now is a lot of people going like, well, you said he was electable, so now go elect him.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but I don't know how to call it, you know, I still kind of suspect that Ken Paxton will win, but it's a very interesting race.

Speaker A: He's gonna win, but instead of, like, being 55, 45 seem to be like, 51, 49. It's gonna scare a lot of Republicans, I will say. Like, yeah, uh, he just has so much baggage, right? I mean, man, it's like you just Google whose stuff is done. It's. It's embarrassing, right? And plus two, like, reason I will not vote for him is because, like, he wants. He got rid of all legal marijuana in Texas. He tried to do that stuff, you know, that's because I don't vote for him, you know? But, yeah, it's. I don't know.

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, it's. I think people are so tired right now of being forced to deal with people that have so much back edge and so much like, why can't we find better leaders?

Speaker A: Um, yeah, with that, like, hey, Daniel. Taking off.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: All right, thanks. Bye, Eliza. I was thinking, like, you know, like, why would any decent candidate want to run for office, right? Like, why? Like, why? I mean, oh, Jason Cabinets, he sips school in the sixth grade. You know, all the dirt they bring up in your. Right? And you have these people, like Donald Trump, Ken Paxton, you know, the best of best in our running.

Speaker B: You know, I think about this a lot with leadership, right? Because, like, the people I think that want leadership are not the people you want to be leaders, you know? And I know you and I were both the kind of leader in the military that was like, rank is here for a reason. So that we know our jobs, we know who we're talking to. Not to make me feel good, you know, I think that's very similar with fame. I think a lot of creators and influencers, especially, start thinking that they're special because they have so many followers. And I really had to go through that for myself. Like, do I want this? And I think I'm actually kind of a good person to be famous, because the only reason I want to be famous is, is so that I can get this message to more people. Um, you know, I keep trying to convince my husband to run for office because he doesn't want to, because he doesn't want that leadership role, you know? And I think a lot about, like, who would want to run for president, like, who would want to be a prisoner in that job for four to eight years?

Speaker A: I mean, she have a lot of power. People do what you say, but, man, this. The, um, all the, like, President Trump. President Biden, whatever president is President Obama. Probably half the things they were accused of, they did, half they want didn't do. You know, and plus the stress you put your family under. You know, you can't imagine being like a president's daughter for eight years. Like having like a single service person at 24, 7. Like.

Speaker B: No. Um, I think it's, it's very telling the way that Michelle Obama talks about it. Like she recently called it the crucible, but pretty much every time she talks about her eight years in the White House, she sounds like she's talking about prison.

Speaker A: Yeah. This one for you, off the subject, right? Has there ever been like a president's kid, like the day myself, President Carter, his daughter's name Amy. President Clinton held Chelsea. Um, the second George Bush had his daughters camera. Their names Jenna and I came out of. Yeah. Yeah. All these kids. Has any one of them actually, like, of course they're all successful. Of course they have no choices. Like they're doing stuff alike. But like, I think one, one of the Bush kids has a successful talk show. One of the Obama kids has like a fashion line. But has anyone actually like done like superstar stuff, like, you know what I'm saying? Like, they started multi billion dollar corporation. So I became like, uh, you know what I'm saying?

Speaker B: No, I don't think so.

Speaker A: Yeah, there's, um, almost being that kind of limits you in a way, you know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I wonder if it's because they don't want to trade on their name or their fame, you know, Like, I know Sasha goes by Sasha Ann professionally. She doesn't use the Obama name. Um, or if it's because they just don't know how to or like, I

Speaker A: lived the life for eight years, you know, I don't want to do that anymore.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: I had the fame. Like, it's not what it's cracked up to be.

Speaker B: It honestly has to be so traumatizing to be a president's child, especially when you are a child when that is happening.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you know, I think anytime children have a job, they're not allowed to be children. And I think this about like high ranking officers in the military and their children are, uh.

Speaker A: And the spouses. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Their spouses and their children are respected

Speaker A: to always toe the line. You will lead the frg.

Speaker B: I love it when they're like, well, you married the army. No, I didn't. I married Tom Young and I'm my own person.

Speaker A: This is crazy. So how do you think we fix this? Right. So, like, I think U. S Congress would make something like185,000 a year for all the multimillion dollars. Right. Like, I don't know, like something's crooked going on. Right. Like how can. What's the latest name? Uh, man, the congressman for Washington from California. Her husband is like Nancy Pelosi.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Her husband has better stock picks than Warren Buffett. You know, I don't know. Right. It's like this seems like.

Speaker B: Oh no, I mean the first thing is I think we. It's the American exceptionalism. You know, there's definitely this idea that in America our politics are not corrupt. And in fact our call, our politics have always been corrupt. You know, I was thinking the other day about how much would it change if you had to be nominated to run for office? You know, like the process that some of the stuff goes through, but like you couldn't put yourself forward. You had to be almost like selected by the community to run in the first place. But I also just. It's so hard to do anything with 350 million people. Right. Like it's such a big country and

Speaker A: not even that like, like people think of Washington is liberal.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Seattle Olympics, liberal. Right. Pretty much everything east of mountains, like really conservative. Right. Texas is known as a conservative state. But Austin, Dallas, San Antonio, they're very liberal. Right. Even within the states, it's like so many different contrasting cultures and political outlooks.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I do think it is a lot about talking about the corruption. Like talking about the corruption and then not allowing that conversation to be shut down simply because other people are saying, well, what are our better options? You know, and this is how Peter Magyar won in Hungary. And Hungarians had long considered that there was no way to run an anti corruption campaign and win because Hungarians were so jaded and thought everyone was corrupt. And this is also a big thing where people have a crack in the brainwashing. You know, there's a story in the children of God where everyone was poor, right. We were begg for Christ and then one day the new leader showed up wearing a Rolex and that that was the end for a lot of people because they could literally tie this corruption to the things in their lives. So I think we just can't stop talking about the corruption.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: In all of. And we, you know, when I talk about the corruption of Democrats, people literally tell me to shut up and go die because what about the other side? And I just think we can't. Like that is a thought stopping cliche. Right. Like we have to talk about the corruption. And we have to try to find politicians that are not going to be corrupt. And we also have to be willing to like lose to the other side while we find better representatives, I guess, because we have to keep talking about the corruption.

Speaker A: So this is my point of view and most people, we won't get over the right? But I think the reason, I just think the Democratic Party needs new leadership, right? Because like 26, 2016, so he's totally transparent. 2016, I voted for Hillary Clinton because in my mind, despite all the dirt she had, I don't think anyone's been more qualified to be president. Her, right? But then her party put her in, even though I think it's gonna be Bernie Sanders. 2020, I voted for Trump. 24 vote for Trump. But, um, 2016, they put her set up Bernie Sanders. I think they messed that up. I think like they didn't, like they took Trump for granted, right? Like they didn't go run in like, I think Michigan, Wisconsin, Ohio, places they'd never lost before. Um, and then in 2024, if I'm correct, like 2020, Frank, President Biden won and he said, I'm a one term president, but let's think power corrupts absolutely. So you. So he ran again, even though he's like one thing I think President Biden did, I think he put aliens right here. Every time he got up, I took someone's hand. I think that's the alien he was shaking the hand to, you know, and so people had to know his state of mind, right? Because that uh, that m debate performance, like it was like, man, like, man, what is this? Right? And with Kamala Harris, I think she said for failure because even though she raised a billion dollars on stuff, right? She only had like a two thirds of normal time to work for Presley, right? And then like President Biden didn't endorse her. President Obama didn't endorse her, right? So I think she sets up for failure. I think the Democratic Party, they should have like, they should have had someone run against President Biden in the primary, right? And all this like military stuff, we've been exposed ahead of time, right?

Speaker B: I mean, I think the Democratic Party keeps snatching defeat out of the jaws of victory. I mean, you know, like they, I say this all the time because people are like, well, both sides are a cult. And I'm like, but who's the leader? Which is to say, I very much agree with you. I think that we need new leadership and we need leadership that is listening to young People. Because this is another problem, right? Like, the average age In Congress is 64 years old. Like, yeah, everyone needs to just retire pretty much.

Speaker A: And I. I think I heard this in the news the day. The one lady, Maxine Waters, she hasn't started for about, like four or five months. They're trying to track her down. Or, you know, like, where's this lady even at? You know, like, m. Most like Ms. McConnell needs to go, you know, like one guy. I do. Like, you ever listen to a, uh, Senator Kenny for Louisiana?

Speaker B: No.

Speaker A: I usually says the crazy off the wall stuff, right? Yeah. It's insane. Yeah. I don't know. And then like, they say, like, term limits on one part of me. Like, term limits. Like, we have termless people vote, but do they really vote? Right. You know, like. Like people hate, like Mr. Connell across the United States, except his people in Kentucky. Right.

Speaker B: I definitely think we should have term limits. I think we should have term limits on the Supreme Court too. You know, I think this idea that people can just be in the job no matter what, especially, you know, as they're getting older and clearly falling apart, you know, I think. I think we need to judge at

Speaker A: least some kind of mental test, Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Or like, you know, how then in Britain they can recall their prime minister and they seem to do it every single time yesterday. You know, like. Yeah, like, can we have a process where we can call for votes of no confidence on people? Like, that would be helpful, I think. But, yeah, this idea, like, you. There's a certain age at which we take your driver's license away from you because you're not capable of doing it anymore. I. I don't think those people should be running.

Speaker A: I know people was called agent. My thing is, like, I'll be good. You have to take a driver's test like, every five or 10 years. Right. Then again, like, the DMV is not the most, you know, you know, uh, optimized place for performance, you know, So I don't know about that one, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. But, you know, I mean, I think we understand that you have to be physically fit to do certain jobs. And mentally fit is. Is a kind of fit for being able to do the job.

Speaker A: They make you the head of Democratic party for the 2020 election. Who's your presidential and vice presidential candidate right now?

Speaker B: I would love to see Pete Buttigieg be a candidate. I would love to see AOC be a candidate. I would love to see Jon Ossoff.

Speaker A: Who's that? I don't know him.

Speaker B: He's a senator in Georgia. I mean, he's doing a very anti corruption kind of campaign.

Speaker A: So mine's kind of close. I will pick the governor from either Pennsylvania or Michigan, have AOC as vp. I think if a Democrat, you have to put AOC on there. She might be like, um, what's. I'm working for? Like, a paralyzed or whatever. They think she's too far left. But, like, that's the part of the party. Like, you have to have some AOC on the ticket that kind of like, I hate to use the word, placate the progressive levels. We need someone to placate them. Like, I, uh, think AOC does that, right?

Speaker B: And someone who's. Who's listening to them and talking directly to them. And also with both Pete Buttigieg and aoc, they're using technology. They're moving forward with the world as it moves forward, and other candidates just

Speaker A: are not big with aoc. She definitely needs, like, learn to talk better colleague. A couple months ago, she basically said New York is some. I forget what terms they use, but you use that term, the South. It means, like, we're gonna fight, right? She said it's time for us to raise up and go down the south to Alabama or whatever. People sound like, what, you gonna come down and you want to fight us? Like, you know, like, yeah, so she does have a march for like, okay, maybe like, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. And she's young. You know, she's. She's quite young.

Speaker A: Um, do you remember this? Like, we got elected, right? And it's one reason I hate Republicans sometimes. Right? All you probably. Oh, we have a video of AOC doing, like, you know, like. Like, what were these? Like, you know, nasty stuff, dishonorable stuff, like, blah, blah. There's a video her dancing in college. So, like, the friends theme songs, the students. Like, she had, like, pants. It's like, what are you doing? Right? Like, she's dancing with her college friends, like, all her clothes on, having a good time. And this is, like, scandalous. Like, I mean, what are you doing?

Speaker B: I don't know if you remember this, but there was a whole time, like, when I was still in college, where they were like, don't post your photos on Facebook because people are losing jobs because there's photos of them partying. Like, that's. That's what you're supposed to be doing as a young person, you know, like, it's. There's a lot of purity testing when it comes to politics, and that's a cult thing, you know, And I Guess

Speaker A: that has to change.

Speaker B: And it was interesting because before Trump got elected, we were having the conversation of, like, the only people that are gonna be able to run for office are gonna be Mormons.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Cause they're the only ones never got drunk something on a, uh, you know, silly on a recording. But I think that we also hold, like, women to higher standards than we hold men, too. Right. We hold minorities to higher standards than we hold men, too. And so, yeah, that's a perfect example of, like, people are human.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And we need to understand the difference between, like, being corrupt and being unfit and, like, dancing at a party.

Speaker A: Yeah, I saw. Like, it was so embarrassing. It's like, are you kidding me right now? Like, this is wholesome, good fun. And they won't even dancing together. It's like, basically like a line of people dancing, like, doing, like. Yeah, it's.

Speaker B: And I mean, I say all the time that one of the reasons I won't run for office is because people will put naked photos of me on the Internet. And I try to be like, well, I don't care. I looked good. But, like, nobody wants to have to go through that. And if we could stop, you know, if we could understand that, like, there's a difference between, you know, to use an army term, like honor violations and doing silly stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: When you were younger. Like, those are very different things.

Speaker A: Very different. Yeah, it's a bad example. Like, it's one thing to get a DUI 18, 25 years ago and get a one last night. Like, in your 50s. Right.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Big difference. Um, so change your subjects. One thing that's warm my heart makes you so happy is the World Cup. Right. Like, people from Europe, like, it's crazy. I say stuff on Take all the time. My country lied to me. America's are great. The food is great. You know, so it's like, it's crazy. Like, they're losing amount of buckies, like, going to Corona, go to Corral. Are you kidding me? Right. Golden Corral Ranch. And this one guy, uh, did a video. He, like, all the sunsets are always like this. I do. Like, what do you have in Europe? There's no sunsets. There are no reds. Like, what the hell is going on over there? Right? And like. Like the Koreans and Mexicans having a good time in Guadalajara. Like, um, I went to Korea. Mexico game on Thursday night here in Pioneer Square. And it's been so much fun, like, how people, like, fall in love with America. Right. Because they think it's all Trump politics. Like, one guy like, man, I've been here three days. Uh, no gun battle yet, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Amazing.

Speaker B: I saw a couple memes that were like, what the World cup is teaching us right now is that most of us can get along, and the problem is our leaders.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Basically, like, our parents are sucky alcoholics, but, like, the rest of us are cool, and, like, we want to get

Speaker A: along with each other. The great American sleepover. Like, the scotch drink Boston out of beer. Like, how do you drink Boston out of beer? Like, good Lord. The Scots, like, Boston and glass are now sister cities, you know? It's like the Bosnians took over St. Louis. Did you see where Lawrence, Kansas, adopted Lawrence. The Lawrence. The Lawrence, Kansas adopt a larger team.

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker B: Brazilians. The Brazilians show up and just get everyone involved in.

Speaker A: In parties and see where the Brazilians went out is the same night the Knicks won the championship. Like. Like, is New York always like this? I mean, it's just been amazing. Like, people, like, extending the. Extending their trips. People, like, now I know why people want to be illegal immigrants over here, because I'm about to become one.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: It's just. It's just. It's been so fun, like, seeing that, you know?

Speaker B: And I like. To me, that's always kind of true about culture, you know? Like, I've never been to one country that I didn't think was just amazing.

Speaker A: I've never been a country where, like, damn, these people suck.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: It has not happened yet.

Speaker B: And I also think that something people don't understand is that culture makes sense in the places where it's from, you know? So one of the last times I went to South America, I was, like, looking forward to it because I love South America, but I was not looking forward to the wine. I love wine. I don't, uh, like South American wine. At least in my head, I didn't. But then I got there, and I realized two things. Number one, like, when you're in Brazil or Chile, where it's, like, hot, humid, blah, blah, blah, you don't want to be drinking a Cabernet. You want to be drinking a Malbec or a lighter kind of wine, Right? The soil there. When you're in that area, the flavors make sense. And then the second thing was they served the red wines chilled. And that changed everything. Everything. You know? So I really do think, you know, I mean, I make my money criticizing the United States, really. Like, I am a culture critic, but it's really hard to judge a culture if you haven't actually gone there and Experienced it for yourself.

Speaker A: I mean, obviously, United States had a lot of flaws, a lot of things improved, but, man, that's. It's such a great country. Right? Like, this is my thing. Like, once people don't want to come here, that's when we have problems. Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Like, I know every country I've been to, they always say, how do I get to America? You know, how do I feel? The process? Everyone wants to come here, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know what? Something else that is great about us, and I just got done traveling abroad, like, three days ago, we have food from everywhere, Right. We don't ourselves produce really good food, at least not white America. But we've done a great job of bringing, like, the best parts of everyone else's culture here. And, like, Brazil has amazing food, but you can't just, like, go to the corner and get Chinese food.

Speaker A: That's the only thing one person posts on Facebook. They're like, man, everyone's. All these Europeans are going to blow up. We're going to Corel. Please go to some random ethnic restaurant, you know, like, in downtown, wherever. It could be Irish, Chinese, whatever, and your mind will really be blown away.

Speaker B: Yes, that is very true. Um, I am the biggest fan of, like, hole in the wall restaurants. You know, like, if you walk in and it's a little bit dark and like, the front door is painted with a full FL bag, like, you know, that food's good.

Speaker A: And there's a kid at the thing, the kid, like, yelling orders, you know.

Speaker B: Yup, yup. Or you see, like, you're the only white person in that restaurant. Like, you know, that's gonna be good,

Speaker A: but it's just been crazy. Like Waffle House. Like Waffle House, Bucky's. And so two more I thought of, like. So it was this German lady at a restaurant, right? And they bought a water. They're like, why do you bring your water? I brought you water. That's rude of you. I didn't order water. I know, but we bring water, everyone. But I don't want water. But, ma', am, everyone gets water. And you make everyone pay. No, no one pays. Well, no one pays. Free refills. Blow them on the way. The best. The Japanese are in Dallas, right? Answer this guy. That is a Mexican restaurant. They request me a sausage chips. They're like, oh, man. I, uh, I got a free sausage chips. I have to eat it. I'm Japanese. Right? He eats it. Of course, the Reddit sees it, brings another one, but a third one, he, like, he posts on his tick tock. I don't know how much I'm gonna do this, right. I can't wait to get right three chips of salsa, right?

Speaker B: You gotta eat it. Um, now, Waffle House, right? I am m a Waffle House lover. And I have this theory that when Waffle House hires people, they're not hiring servers, they're hiring actors to play the extremely typical diner. And it's just a whole bunch of like, well paid actors, uh, at, um, Waffle House. Because, I mean, every single time, it is so funny.

Speaker A: All these Europeans across the world, like, Golden Corral is blowing your mind. Like Chick fil A's blowing your mind. Like raising canes. Like, what in the world? Like with this one guy, he put that he ate at Chipotle's, Chili's and churches all the same day. People like, slow your road, dude. But it's like, to me, so heartwarming, right? So hardware, I'm so happy. And. And then I don't know how much you know about college football, but the University of Auburn, like, they did a game there friendly between Argentina and Iceland, right? And before every football game, they released the eagle, right? The eagle flies around the stadiums. They play the extreme war Atlanta eagle. All the Europeans, like, they're just amazed. Like, this country is so great. They have eagles flying around the stadiums at will. Like, what's going on here, Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, um, you know, it is nice to see things like the Olympics or the World cup actually produce cultural exchange in the way that they're supposed to. And I kind of think it is, because it seems like the world is kind of garbage right now, or part of. I've been so heartened by the American response to all of this mess recently, which has been to go out and make friends, go out and build teams, go hang out more in community, you know, And I think, like, that's the part of the American spirit that will not be beat. Um, is our just. We're just nice. We're nice people. We want to have a nice community.

Speaker A: Everyone says that. They say America's so nice, so I spit on the border. So, like, do whatever you can for them.

Speaker B: Yeah. And you know, that's. That's part of it. You know, I do think America is a great country. I think that we have a lot of work to do, but I mean,

Speaker A: but I think we have less work to do than a lot of other countries, though.

Speaker B: That's for sure.

Speaker A: And so this is crazy. So I'm sure you see how all Koreans and Mexicans get along. Down Guadalajara. So joke is a lot. M gonna be a lot of Pablo Lee's being born. You know, half Korean, have Mexican baby being born. Right. Every video I see this, like, either like a m Mexican guy with a Korean lady or vice versa. Right. You know?

Speaker B: Yep. I agree. And I think there's gonna be, like, a lot of Scots in. In Boston. You know how it's like. Like nine months after Christmas. Like, there's always a lot of babies born in September and October the same way.

Speaker A: Yeah. A lot of international babies being born. And my citizens of Boston, my cities of this place or this place.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Man, I gotta teach this kid Korean and Mexican.

Speaker B: I love it.

Speaker A: It's such a strapless time. Yeah. I just hope they can keep on going. Right. It was things crazy. Like, suppose all these Europeans were worried, like, that our stains are not big enough for soccer games or that we want to. We're on a soccer nation. Like. Like we were freaking sports nation. Right. I mean, we sell out, like, high school football games t ball games. Yeah. Especially Seattle. Like, yeah. It was so insane on Seattle Friday. Daniela is like, yes, betcha crazy it.

Speaker B: As someone who grew up out of the US it's definitely been fun for me to finally see, like, Americans get into. Get into the World Cup. I think it's been. It's been pretty beautiful.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so what's the plan of the book? So the book came out in January. Is the book going like you expected? Are you kind of like behind sales or, like, you need to catch up or.

Speaker B: Um, no, sales are good. I mean, I've sold. I think I've sold about 25,000 already. I mean, I've sold a hundred thousand books overall.

Speaker A: So. Quick question, right? What was your cut from your first book versus your cut for this book? If you can say. If you can tell us that.

Speaker B: So for uncultured, I get about three to four dollars per book sale after I earn out my advance, which I hope to do in another year. And then I get royalties until 75 years after my death, my heirs get royalties with Culting of America, which I own outright. I get about $31 for each book that I sell at a $35 price point. Um, one of the things about uncultured, and I say this so that other authors will think to do this, is that in my contract, I was an authorized reseller of the book. So I on my own social media, I buy the book from macmillan at, uh, the same rate that Barnes and Noble does, and then I literally mark it up with my signature Right. And sell it. So I make a lot more money reselling my book than I make through the publisher. Um, and you know, you're always gonna get more sales from the publishers because they have the big networks. So I don't think they actually care about my little piddling online sales. But it makes a huge difference for me, and that's how I funded the second book. But I will also say that I'm, um, right now trying to pay back what feels like college loans for the second book. So even though sales are going really, really good, I keep continually being like, this is why people don't self publish their own books at such a high level. So there's pros and cons to each side, but I very much like being in control of the entire process.

Speaker A: So I'm gonna do something kind of different. Right. And ah, so we're having here today my friend Tara.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Tara is like one of your big fans. So I asked Tara, do you have, do you have any questions you want to ask Daniela?

Speaker C: Actually, I did write one.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Uh, I was wondering if you can tell when the negative feedback that comes at you from any of the platforms, um, can you tell if it's a former or current cult member or someone who's like, can you tell just like the voice or there's someone coming at you from them being in that kind of organization?

Speaker B: The answer is yes. And especially if it's a large cult or a cult that I have studied a lot. For example, Scientologists all use the same answers. Alcoholics Anonymous members all use the same answers. People who are mad that I'm calling the military a cult all use the same answers. So it's kind of in the language and in the inability to question. Um, yeah,

Speaker C: that has to make it easier, like to, you know, you're like, oh, it does. I know who you are.

Speaker B: It does. And also, as I have said before, like, one of the reasons I'm good at this is because active cult members have been talking trash to me for 20 plus years now. And so in the beginning, it's just, I think if you're gonna do anything online, obviously you just have to get used to people disliking you and understanding that you're doing something for your audience and finding your audience, finding people like you is very helpful to me. And actually, one of the things I have gotten back from heavily interacting with my followers, whether that's on social media or in meetups like we're going to have this week, is that when I'm getting the Trash from people. I can remember that, like, no, this actually helps the people that I'm trying to help. And everything else is just noise.

Speaker A: Tara, real fast, can you tell us, like, how you found Daniela, like, how you came across her?

Speaker C: I think just tick tock. Um, it was just. And I think your hair stopped me. And I listened, and it was, um, what I needed right at the. Like at the beginning of the news cycle. Exhaustion. It was facts that I needed to hear. And also, like, you were saying, you're not. You don't want to be a deity to people, but you also, uh, like, I listen to you for other people to go seek out. Right. Because I trust that your. Your line of communication, which is very direct, uh, speaks to me and helps me take that emotion away from it and remove the exhaustion.

Speaker B: Yeah, I appreciate that.

Speaker A: That's make you feel good, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, one of my. And I think this comes from knowing cult leaders, that they just say all these big things and then they never get done. And so one of my responses to almost everything that comes out in the news is like, well, let's wait. Let's see what this is going to happen. Let's break down what the logistics of doing this thing would be like, and then let it develop, let it go from there. I was actually so proud of my audience on the day that he tweeted that we were gonna invade Kharg Island. And I was like, okay, y', all, let's not spiral. And I didn't see anyone spiral. I was like, okay, yes. People are starting to understand that, like, just because a leader put something out there doesn't mean a lot of times it is said and done regardless of

Speaker A: the last time they do it. Like, do tests. Like. Like, uh, like, so I feel out there. Right. Like, how do people react? Right.

Speaker B: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker A: So you do a lot of events across the nation. Right? First, like, why do those events. How does it come about? And what do you want to get out of these. Out of these events?

Speaker B: Well, one of the things, as you know, I was building my audience, writing this book for three years, and then everyone asked if there was going to be a book tour. And the book tour is just me paying for everything. So the deal that I made with my audience is that when I travel, I will throw a. We call them knitting cult happy hours, and I will let people come to see me. Um, it has now evolved to the point where we have 90 people coming out to see us this Thursday in Seattle.

Speaker A: And people are Seattle or Tacoma?

Speaker B: It's Seattle.

Speaker A: Seattle now? I thought it was Tacoma for some reason.

Speaker B: No, I'm actually going to a women's veteran luncheon in Tacoma that day and then doing an event in Seattle that evening. Uh, so I'll just be way overstimulated and talking to 100 people. But, um, why I do them, I think it's. You know, first of all, it's not always true that an online community translates to in person.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I have learned a lot, both from my online interaction and doing in person events that people just want to be heard, you know, I mean, in. I did an event in New Orleans, and this young dude drove down from Connecticut to New Orleans to literally listen to my talk.

Speaker A: That's insane.

Speaker B: Have me sign his book and say thank you for explaining my military experience to me. And then he drove back the same night.

Speaker C: And that.

Speaker B: That blows my mind.

Speaker A: I remember it was in Dallas at the military. Connor. Remember someone drove for, like, mesquite. I thought that was a long way. Connecticut.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, and for the book launch, we had people come from literally all over the country, which was really cool.

Speaker A: Um, here's one for you. Like, suppose you do an event, right? Suppose there's 100 people there, right? How you do this? Like, you're talking to, like, someone. You don't really know them, but they're talking, they're talking, talking, talking. You're like, you might like, man, I got 94 more people I need to talk to. Right. Because how do you, like, like, politely like, hey, Jason, uh, thanks for, you know, your support, but, you know, you know, get the fuck out of here.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: I think it's just a skill that I've developed. And I also think that everyone understands that they're not the only person at that event. And I need to kind of like, move around the room. Um, I do encourage people to sit together at tables so that I can spend more time kind of like, talking to the group. But I definitely sometimes just have to be like, this is so great. Thank you for coming. Like, bust in and then walk away to go talk to other people.

Speaker A: That's definitely a skill that I need to get better at. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah. And, you know, I just. I prepare for these events to just essentially be like weddings. Like, I'm gonna. Everyone there wants to talk to me. I'm not gonna feel like I get to talk to any individual person enough. But there's a reason people show up.

Speaker A: You almost so much time in the. In the day, right. Of the event.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Like, you're. Events like, one hour, two hours long, usually about three. Three hours divided by 90. It's like, man, barely a minute per person, you know?

Speaker C: Yep.

Speaker B: And it's always the people that are able to hang out till the very end. You know, at the very end of the night, there's always like 10 of us sitting around a table just talking.

Speaker A: Like, I think we're networking. But my thing is like, for advice for introverts, try to get there 30 minutes ahead of time or 30 minutes afterwards.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. Because the crowd disappears and you have like, more. More ability to have like one on one time that people want to talk to.

Speaker B: Very true.

Speaker A: Yeah. Um, so with the, um, with your events. Right. I'm sure this has never happened. Right. Do you, like, meet someone? Well, let me put this. Like, how do you handle this?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: The other. Right. And you meet someone. Right. You meet Jason. Right. You're like, through my damn thing, Jason's a goddamn jackass. Like, I never want to see Jason again. Right. Like, how do you handle. Right. They like m, man, let's connect on social media. But you just like, be polite. That's, you know, like disconnect. But in your m mind, like, there's something wrong with Jason. Right. I would never do anything with Jason. Like, when you like, you're like a spider. Sisters go off, so to speak.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's usually just try to be polite and move away, you know, I haven't, fortunately, I haven't really had anyone get like, very feisty at an event. Um, a lot of times I have my husband there, who's a big military guy and he's good at like, stepping in and getting involved.

Speaker A: Have you had any stalkers yet, Female or male?

Speaker B: I have had some people that I have had to block, um, because they were getting really intense. But it has all been online. So far I haven't had anything too bad in person.

Speaker A: That's not something I realized. A lot of people, like, were public, but it is not. Like, I'm sure you don't give out your personal phone number, your address, Social Security numbers. Right. Because there is like a kind of, you know, like, things we do protect ourselves. Right.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And, and this is even another part of it is that, like, people will ask me, oh, do you have some way I can connect with you? And I'm always like, sure. Email, adminculture, yourself, dot com. And sometimes you see people get offended or see them like, be like, oh, well, you think you're really important. And it's just like, like that. This is how you get a hold of me and I don't have a public facing way that you can contact me on purpose.

Speaker A: So this happened on TikTok a while ago. So this is, um, there's this couple is a black lady and a white guy. They live on a farm, I think in Alabama, right? Like they have like millions of followers, right? And in a post on time like this, these jokers actually set up their house, right? Like somebody found a house and try to get pictures. I'm like, are you kidding?

Speaker B: Right now?

Speaker A: You're at our house, right? With our kids, right? People take it too far sometimes.

Speaker B: I sometimes have gifts that show up to my house and I think people don't understand that that's usually creepy and scary.

Speaker A: So creepy.

Speaker B: Um, sometimes I can tell that they went. You know, with Amazon prime, you can send something to somebody's house without knowing their address. So sometimes it's that, but sometimes it just seems creepy. And then a funny one was a few weeks ago in D.C. i was coming out of an event where I was wasted and it was a military event. I was there with another woman. We were just having fun and this woman came up to me with her family and her kids. And my only thought was, I don't want them to see how wasted I am and I don't want to embarrass myself in front of these children, right? These people's children. And that was. She actually contacted me later and thanked me and then I told her how wasted I was and we had a funny conversation.

Speaker A: I couldn't tell.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Uh, so in April, we both took part, I think, our military career conference. Can you talk about your experience with that?

Speaker B: Yeah, it was a. It was a great experience for me. You know, it felt like, first of all, I was. I'm from M. Dallas in many ways, so it's always coming home. And my mom was there with me. Um, being in a military space is always very male dominated and being in an entrepreneur space is always very male dominated. And I think those are the spaces where people underestimating me pisses me off the most. So I have fun, but I also get upset. Um, but I thought it was a really great event. And, um, I think, you know, what conferences do really well is energy and pumping you up. And it's always, it's always great for that.

Speaker A: And so I might need to say this out loud, but one thing that is kind of like funny and maybe not funny, right? And so I have a good friend, Taylor Ray, right. She was a conference, right. And so I think there's like a scenery all night on Thursday night. And Taylor was speaking the next night, right? And Dana says, hey, Jason, do you think Taylor's gonna be okay? Like, can you handle something? And I thought Danielle met. You know, Taylor's never spoke in front of military people before, but down let m me know she's around all these military dudes. Can she handle herself on military dudes? Right? And I was thinking, no. You know, can she hand herself, like, giving a speech from the military? And they're like, no, no, Jason, like the other military dudes around here. So she's like 25, real attractive, right? Oh, shit. I didn't cross my mind, right?

Speaker B: And, you know, this is unfortunately, one of the things about being in a military audience is there are a lot of great people and there are a lot of predators. And those two, I think, don't know how to recognize each other. You know, I think just today in this audience here, we have three men that I consider to be very, very safe. And none of y' all are good at recognizing the predators.

Speaker A: No.

Speaker C: Like, ah.

Speaker A: What do you mean? Taylor's good. Hell, you know.

Speaker B: You know, when our friend Dan first read Uncultured, he was like, I didn't think that any of the women I had served with had dealt with any of that. So I went and asked them, and they, of course, all said that they had all dealt with it their whole lives. And I will say, like, this is part of why I do this, though, is because when you and Dan and Tom, like, when the good guys who are the military guys get clued into that, then you become the best protectors, right? Then you're watching her back for the rest of the time, and you're calling out other guys that are being creepy. And people will pay more attention to you and to my husband than they will to me.

Speaker A: Here's one for you. Um, your daughter's like, like 9, 10, 11 right now.

Speaker B: 10, 10.

Speaker A: So she's senior high school. And she says, mom, dad, um, I know what you're gonna say, but, like, I wanna. I wanna go to West Point.

Speaker B: Say, not in a million years.

Speaker A: Like, mom, I'll be 18 soon. Um, I have a senator's signature right now. I'm pretty much guaranteed acceptance of West Point. Oh, whatever it is, right? Yeah. I mean, like, I see the background that, like, it helped you and dad, like, have a good, good life. It kind of bounced you off. You know, I'll be on my own. Blah, blah, blah. You're like, kid, ain't no freaking way. Or you're like, be supportive Yeah, I

Speaker B: mean, first of all, it's not that realistic of a question, because my kid is just not that kid that's ever going to try it, I don't think. But obviously we know that once she makes a firm decision, we will support it and we will be on her team, and we will be there for her when she has the positive or negative experiences. But we both very much do not want her to go into the military, and we will would spend a lot of time and energy trying to help her change her mind, that's for sure.

Speaker A: You know, I even Broadwinder.

Speaker B: Even in the beginning when I started speaking, this question was hard for me because I'm like, I. I do want strong women to be in the military. I'm proud of my career. I'm proud of what I did. When the military hit 20% women, I was like, this is the beginning. 20% is when you're able to start addressing subconscious, negative stereotypes for your demographic. And I want as close to 50% as the military can be with women, the better it's gonna be. I truly believe that. But I don't want it to be my daughter, and I don't want it to be my friend's kids.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which means I don't like for any individual woman. I just think when you're going into a system that's not designed for you, it's gonna be a really hard life, and I don't want that for the individual woman that's gonna have to deal with it.

Speaker A: So you don't want to burden any female, so to speak?

Speaker B: Pretty much, yeah. It's like, I want, you know, when I think of it as an autonomous mass or unpersonalized people, my language skills are getting bad with the wine, and we can now see. Um, but I. Yeah. That the best way I can say it is like, I don't want it to be my kid or my friend's kids.

Speaker A: How about this one? Right? So obviously you want your kid to go to go to college. Right. Especially so close to y' all senior high school. About the graduation or what? Um, if you pay for my college, at least $200,000, whatever. Instead of give $200,000, probably waste some money. Whatever. Just give it to me now. I have this business idea.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker C: Yes.

Speaker B: This one is much more realistic because my kid is very artistic and very creative. And, you know, I have actually learned this from my husband's participation or willingness to support me in my business, where I'm like, he's the silent partner. But I still have to Convince him of the solidness of my business the same way I would have to with any partner or investor. And so that is what I think I would. The standard I would hold my kid to.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Like you, I don't know of any 18 year old that could convince me to invest $200,000 in their business. And so you'd have to work pretty hard to show me that this was a good investment.

Speaker A: Here's before you. In your mind, what's going to make you a success parent? Like, suppose your daughter's like in her 30s, right? Or your daughters, your daughter's like 31. What needs to happen to where you say to yourself, you know what, me and Tom, we were successful parents.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um,

Speaker B: we came up with this idea during COVID And I don't know what the version of this will be, but when Covid hit, our daughter was 4 and our next door neighbors had a 19 year old and a 21 year old. And those children moved m hell or high water to get home to quarantine with their parents for an unknown period of time.

Speaker A: That's a good one.

Speaker B: And we, neither of us could you pay us any amount of money to go quarantine with our parents for an unknown period of time. Even my mom, who I love and get along with and is amazing, I don't think I would want to do that. And so we immediately then we were like, that's our goal, like that's our parenting goal is number one, we're not raising a kid, we're raising an adult. Right. And we want to raise an adult that we get along with and like to hang out with and that wants to get along with and hang. And that has influenced all of our parenting. But I also, I think like, you know, I just hung out with my 26 year old former exchange student and her parents and went all around the country with her. And like, everything good that happens to her, she wants to share it with her parents first. And I think that that is, you know, another thing we've said is like, when she gets in trouble, we want her first thought, you know, like real trouble, like adult trouble out in the world. We want her first thought to be, I need mom and dad, not I need to hide this.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, from mom and dad.

Speaker A: I think a lot of people, they think I'm, uh, a success parent if my kid is like a lower doctor, a million dollars to me, I think it's more simple than that.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: You're a successful parent. If at the end of the day your kids are Contributing to society. It'd be as simple as have a paying job, paying taxes. If they're doing that, uh, you've done your job. Now if your kids are on welfare all your life, all their life, that Robin stealing, take advantage of people, con artists. No, but it's very simple. Like have a job at Amazon fulfillment warehouse paying taxes. I think you've done your job.

Speaker B: I want my head to my kid to be happy and satisfied with her life. And I want my kid to still have a good relationship with me. And other outside of that. I try not to have too much pressure or expectation.

Speaker A: That's a good question. You talk about this. I think about this all the time too, right? Like I pretty success, army career. I do a few things. Right. You and Tom both successful, right? Like when someone's successful, do you think that puts, um, undue pressure on their kid to live up to the expectations? Like, I mean, bad example like Michael Jordan. All these kids try to play basketball and they felt way shorter. Michael Jordan status.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: Is there a concern, like, you know, Mike, just by being you, you're putting too much pressure on your kid?

Speaker B: Um, I don't think with my specific kid, she has that, you know, And I think like, even in mine and Tom's relationship, it works out that we're very, very different. You know, he's very happy for me when I get a book deal, and I'm very happy for him when he just got into his master's in public policy. Because we just have completely different things. And there have actually been studies that show that in a couple, when you both have the same goals, like you're both in the same career field, it can be contentious.

Speaker A: I've heard that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so I don't think my kid wants to be me or even sees me as particularly cool. So I don't think we have that right now. I think when she grows up, she'll see me as cool. But I also will say on the flip side, my mom has been very, very good at never doing the. Well, you think you have it hard. Guess what? I went through. And so I have never done that with her. You know, I've worked very hard to not do that. So I think she's growing up as her own person and I think it's fine. Um, but she has, for example, asked me if she could help with choreography for the musical, and then later started telling someone that she was gonna be the director of choreography for the musical. And I told the 10 year old that, no, she's not. In fact, qualified for that. And she's going to have to get herself qualified, you know, like quick.

Speaker A: So cut off subjects, of course. You know, David Beckham and like, what's his wife's name?

Speaker B: Pot Spice Victoria Beckham.

Speaker A: So I guess that's like some kind of, um, all they have this like relisher, Right. It's possible this hard working family, middle class family. Dad worked hard and they were making up. Uh, be honest, dear. What car did your dad pick up from school? Well, that's not a point. We work hard. No answer question, what car do you pick up? You get picked up in a, ah, Rolls Royce. And he just left. Right. Like, how hard working is your dad? Here's the RollsRoyce. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, that is something that we do discuss with our kid a lot is the privilege that she has and just the fact that pretty much anything that she's ever wanted gets bought for her.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, now we're at the point where it's funny because she's trying to be like, no, I'm not gonna do that. And then I'll just be like, well, no, I don't think I'm gonna take you to get your nails done next time.

Speaker A: You know, like, that's some triv. Right?

Speaker B: And so we have an awareness that there's privilege. You know, I had only one child on purpose, and part of that was because I wanted to be able to give her everything she wanted. Um, but I still expect there to be gratitude and sort of have manners,

Speaker A: be humble, like be a good person.

Speaker B: Still have to learn how to get along with people. You know, we're not just going to pay your way through life as an adult, even though we might always be helping you out in some way, which is something I think I've earned the privilege to do is continue to support my kid. But like, for example, I've never been a punishment parent. You know, we just haven't even found anything that works for her. So from the age of about three, it's like we're teaching you. You have to get along with us. Like you didn't choose to live here, but until you're 18, you have to choose and figure out how to get along with us. Um, in the same way my husband and I have to figure out how to get along with each other. And there are consequences. Right. It's just like real life consequences. And we're not like, yes, she's gonna be a Nepo baby, but no, she's not just gonna get to wear all that privilege on her sleeve all the time. She's definitely gonna have to cooperate.

Speaker A: So maybe not a Force for 16th birthday, but maybe a Ford Mustang for a 16th birthday.

Speaker B: She wants a. She wants a red pickup truck. And we have told her that it's definitely going to be used. Yes, yes.

Speaker A: Um, man, that's. That's crazy. Um, here's one for you. Um, so let's suppose like we're taking Seattle, right? Suppose like you're like, on south side of Seattle, you're kind of poor here. You have, like, no. No resources. Like, your parents are poor, your welfare, like, but it's Seattle, right? Would you rather be that person or the person who lives in Bumfuck, Arkansas, in a town of 30 people, no Internet access?

Speaker B: I would rather be the person in Seattle. Like, I would rather be the person close to libraries.

Speaker A: Yeah, easily. Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, you know, and the variety of resources that you have in large cities. Um, I think the isolation of small towns is very difficult.

Speaker A: A lot of people talk about, you know, like, black, white, economic rich, economic poor. But I think the big thing is like, like access an urban and no access to rural. I think that's the one thing we have to solve some kind of way.

Speaker B: I mean, just when I hear people tell stories of, you know, because, I mean, a lot of people and they tell me their, their cult stories or their, you know, my. My dad was an evangelical pastor and we weren't allowed to this. And then they'll get to. And I just spent all of my time in the library and all of my time reading for escapism. And that makes my little heart hurt because what I would have done with a library, you know, like, total isolation versus not total isolation, are very different things. And so I love it for all those kids that they had the library access. But I definitely think. And you know, as we are recording this, my youngest sibling is here visiting from Midland, Texas, and is just walking around Seattle right now and having a blast.

Speaker A: That's what Seattle gets. A lot of shit. I'm one person. I shit on Seattle a lot. But Seattle is like. Like, that's what I try to do. Tech stuff. Seattle is a great place to be. Right? Especially the World cup stuff going on. It's a lot of cool stuff going on in Seattle, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. There's a reason we come back to visit all the time.

Speaker A: Like, I took around, like, today is beautiful. Like, the Seattle is nice. It is nice, but it's not. It's not.

Speaker B: I always say Seattle is the prettiest place in the continental United States for three months a year. Um, and. And the rest of the time, it can be kind of a struggle. But. But no, I mean, Seattle was the first place we settled. That's where my husband is from. And I thought I might live here forever. And every time we come here, I think we might move back because of how much they love it. So, I mean, it's a good place.

Speaker A: Um, next, let's talk about your fashion sense. Like, how did you become this fashion diva, right? How did this. How did this come about? Like this, like, the hair, the outfits. Like, is this. Obviously, uh, it's a constant decision. Like, how do you, like, like, this outfit you have on? How did you decide to wear this?

Speaker B: Right, yeah. So when I got my book deal, my first book deal, my first thought, with literal financial freedom being conferred on me, my first thought was, okay, if I'm an author, I'm gonna wear whatever I want for the rest of my life. And I recently had a friend say, like, I don't think I've ever seen you in jeans and a T shirt. And I was like, yeah, I don't. I don't ever wear that. Um, but it's also been a developing skill, right? So, like, when I got out of the army, probably, like most women who were in the army for a significant portion of their adult life, I didn't know anything about how to dress. And I started with earrings, big earrings, and collecting big earrings. And that was specifically because we weren't allowed to wear earrings in the army. And so I wanted to do that. And then, you know, I tell this to women now. I'm like, pick one color. I picked maroon, and then get a whole bunch of, uh, items in that and everything else neutral. And then get everything on that color line. And by the time you get to a contrast color, which for me was teal, I'm like, now you've got it. But the biggest part, and I often say, like, I think the difference between looking ridiculous and looking fashionable is just confidence. So I think the biggest part is just being like, yeah, I want to wear that because I want to, and there's no reason for it. You also have to be cool with always being overdressed. But I, as an extrovert, actually like the connection of that. Like, people come up to me all the time just to tell me they like my hair or they like my outfit.

Speaker A: And you have to be cool with people. Like, oh, my God, that's some bright colored hair you have there. You know? Exactly.

Speaker B: You also have to be cool with people Judging you and being like, why is she.

Speaker A: You look like a peacock.

Speaker B: Why is she wearing a knitted cape and walking down the street? You know, so that is that, um, this outfit that I'm wearing now. So at this point, my audience actually sends me things that they think I will like. And I do opening videos, you know, so it's like every five days my YouTube channel becomes one of those channels where kids open toys and other kids watch them, but it's like for adults. And so like this, I'm wearing this onyx and diamond ring that somebody just sent to me. So somebody sent me this dress and I liked it, but I decided I was gonna chop it in half and make it a two piece thing. So that's what I did.

Speaker A: Nice.

Speaker B: Um, and then there's one part of it that is also really personal to me is that the crafting and the choosing my own fashion and choosing my own clothes has allowed me to answer the question of cultural appropriation. Being a white girl that was raised all over the and has touched almost every single culture. And what I have learned is that when you buy the things yourself and you make it and you put your own design on it, like nobody from that culture is upset that you're wearing that. And so I'm literally like kind of like knitting together all of these different pieces of my life.

Speaker A: They remind me. Um, a friend of mine, her name's like, she works, she's a software of Microsoft, but she goes by Tyler Stitcher. She just opened a knitting store in Concourse Sea at the airport.

Speaker C: It.

Speaker A: Then you connect you with me. Okay. Yeah. She makes it all kind of stuff. Yeah.

Speaker B: I've always wondered why there are not more knitting stores in airports.

Speaker A: Yeah, you just open one up. Yeah.

Speaker C: Amazing.

Speaker B: I want to talk to her and I want to have her on my show because like that seems that gyms and craft shops, these are two things that need to exist in airports.

Speaker A: I don't know about gyms, airports.

Speaker B: I mean you have to have a shower available, but.

Speaker A: But who's going to go work out?

Speaker B: I would have back in my heyday.

Speaker A: So you go to, you go to airport. That, that's like that event three hours ahead of time.

Speaker B: Not normally, but it's more for like when you have a 16 hour flight delay.

Speaker A: But how many m. People have 16 hour Friday delays?

Speaker B: I think a lot.

Speaker A: I don't know. I think most people are smart enough not to do a 16 hour fighting delay.

Speaker B: I don't know. But definitely. Well, no, nobody plans for that. It's like when it's unplanned, but I

Speaker A: don't think it happens. Unplanned enough to have a business, though.

Speaker B: Maybe not. I don't know. We show up three hours early to go to the lounge, so if the lounge had gyms.

Speaker A: I mean, I show up early all the time.

Speaker C: Time.

Speaker A: I. A lot of time.

Speaker C: But the.

Speaker B: The craft stores, like, there's no excuse for airports not to have craft stores. Like, they have every other kind of shopping at this point. And one of the things that I have learned is so many people craft,

Speaker A: it's like, that still blows my mind.

Speaker B: It's one of the things that brings people together.

Speaker A: Blows my mind. Like crafting. Like, are you 97,000 years old right now?

Speaker B: Yes. And I don't even know why people call them grandma hobbies because they're so awesome.

Speaker A: Um, the fact you still don't really stab yourself to death is still amazing to me.

Speaker B: I do sometimes puncture my thumb because I'm so exact.

Speaker A: Tell us your. What's the process? You said it's not like, stab the person and do something, whatever. Oh, yeah.

Speaker B: It's. It's the four steps for doing a knit stitch. So it's stab them, strangle him, scoop out his guts, throw him off a cliff. My kid, when I taught her how to knit when she was 5, developed a nicer one that was about launching astronauts to the moon. That's how she taught her friends how to knit.

Speaker A: That's a much better one. Much better one. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean. But I do have to say this. I think it's hilarious that knitting needles are allowed through tsa, Right? Like, I. I need it. So I'm glad that they are allowed, but absolutely are these deadly weapons, and I could kill you with them right now.

Speaker A: You can go to the airport with a knitting noodles. But TSA has said, do not put a branch in your. In your. Your on the board thing because it's liquid.

Speaker B: I. I mean, and it's so funny, too, because, like, sometimes they'll decide that they don't like your needle pack, and so they'll open it up and they'll take out all the biggest needles. But the thing about the big needles is those are yarn needles and they're super dull.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, I'm not going to try to

Speaker A: kill you with a yarn needle.

Speaker B: I'm going to try to kill you with a needle this big. That's for sewing. And I'm going to stick it right in your temple. Come on.

Speaker A: Um, so what's your advice? Like, suppose someone's in the military right now and they're, they're getting out. We'll say January 1st. Let's suppose their generally starts during the first get out of the military right now. What should be, what should he try, what should he do?

Speaker B: This was actually in my TED talk, which is like people, purpose and processes to follow. Right? Like who you're going to miss the community. So start building your new community now if you can. If you're already in the area where you're going to get out or retire from, start going to networking events. If not, there are online groups for everything you can possibly think of. And then there's like the mission. You're gonna be jonesing for the mission. And that is something super important. And I hope that eventually, as you become more and more of a civilian, you won't need that mission as strongly. But I think when we get out of the military, we need that. So what is gonna be your next mission? You don't have to know that already, but you need to start looking for that. Um, and then start, start figuring out how to dress yourself what you like. This is for men and women. You know, I had this discussion with my husband when he got out and I was trying to get him to wear this red leather vest with a men's lace shirt and he was like, I just don't think that's my style. And I was like, I don't think you have a style. I think since you were 17 you have had fatigues and workout clothes and lounge clothes. And so you need to develop your style. And this is a thing for everyone who gets out of cults. And I know you're laughing, but it's important because appearance control is a big part of cults and appearance control is a big part of the military.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: So whether that's. Are you going to grow a beard, which most men are trying to do, are you going to grow your hair long? What do you want to look like? That is going to end up being a huge part of your deconstruction and your learning and it's always embarrassing. It's called delayed adolescence. Right. You're supposed to do all that experimenting when you're a teenager and a young adult. And we didn't get to do it because we were in the military. So it's going to be hard. And especially for women. Like I've heard so many stories of grown 30, 40 year old women just crying their eyes out in their closets on their first day of work or their first day of civilian life because they don't know how to dress themselves. So figure out who your new friends are going to be. Figure out what your new mission is going to be and figure out how you want to dress.

Speaker A: I think big things, community, right. People like don't get like in the military. Like I don't care where your rank is, where you are. Like, I, uh, mean, maybe it's just my experience like every weekend is like, hey, there's something going on. A birthday party, there's this. Everyone invites you to everything. People you work with, people over here. Like there's always something to go to. Hey, my kids playing game can come to.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: It's like that severe award. Right. Like you work at Microsoft, whatever the case would be. It's nine to five. There's none of this. Hey, Jason, um, me, me, my wife are going to see, you know, a DJ Diesel Fact play the EDM concert. You want to come along? That's none that, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's, it's tough, right? It's tough.

Speaker B: And that is why it's like again like, you know, so I will say that like cults do some things right. And those things are mission and purpose and community. And I think there's a reason that so many neurodivergence and misfits actually enjoy being in the military. Because you're given a community and when you get out, you're no longer given that community. People don't. In the military, people in your unit have to care about you. Yeah, they do.

Speaker A: Especially overseas.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, and you're just not gonna have that anymore. You're not gonna have that closeness and you're gonna have to learn how to develop it. And I actually think there's a two year period that is really dangerous for veterans.

Speaker A: Yeah, I agree.

Speaker B: After we get out of the military and if we don't find that new

Speaker A: community, what's my life? What's my purpose? What am I doing here?

Speaker B: You know, if you don't find that new purpose and that new community, it gets very hard. And I have a lot of mixed feelings about volunteering because it's very easy to get exploited as we know. But I think that I will tell veterans to go volunteer because I'm like, like first of all, you never know who you're volunteering next to. So it's a great way to make connections, but might just save you from the beginning.

Speaker A: I tell military verdicts too. Like I think a lot of military veterans, they go and go like the local job fair. Right. Like it's a bunch of Military, like, go, like, go where you're the only military veteran, right? Be the only person. Be the only female black. Be the only person there. Right. Like, if you're young, going out of Gallicolla, go to like, Rotary Club, Chamber of Commerce. If you're in the military, Fort Lewis or jblm, go to tech event. Be really the only one because it's going to draw attracted to you and people want to hear. Hear you talk, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, this is the opposite of what we're taught in the military, which is don't stand out.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I would say, like, in the civilian world, stand out.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Like, don't be afraid of standing out. Right. So we've mentioned my rainbow hair a couple times, and if you're not watching the video of this, you're not getting the real image. But, like, the front of my hair is a full neon rainbow and it's expensive. Jason. Um, I mean, I pay people. Literally. They're like, how do you keep it so pretty? I'm like, money, money.

Speaker A: So you don't do yourself?

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: It cost me two to $300 every three months. It's a lot of money. And every time I do it, I'm like, I'm going back to brown. But I can't because it's so good for branding, it's so good for recognizability. It has become part of my identity as being rainbow hair. And it's just like, it's brought so many good things to my life. And like, we are taught in America, also, don't stand out. Um, and I just think for the most part, standing out, especially if you've chosen how you want to present yourself, is only a good thing.

Speaker A: But that's so, that's like, to me, bad and crazy advice. Like, the people, the most successful are the ones who stand out. Right?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Because regardless, you think about Elon Musk, he stands out, Right. Like Michael Jordan stood out. People who are successful stand out, you know?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: I think another thing, like, military veterans get wrong, Right. They make the mistake. Right. Rather than retire together, army, right. They're like, okay, I'm m getting out in 2027. I'm gonna buy a house. I'm buying a new car. Like, damn, dude, you just, like, added all these bills into yourself, right? And in that when you retire, like, people say, retire 50. No, you don't. It's 35% because housing, uh, don't count, Right. And then, like, then you have to get a job. You don't hate Ah. That you hate. And then six months later, you lose the job because you hate the job. You know, I just. Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker B: And I also think one of the things that sometimes a lot of people do wrong is going back to school right away. Right away. Because, like, the amount of times I almost started an mba, you got decompressed. And, like, I would have hated that. I would have hated that. When you get out of the military, you get six months of unemployment.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Use that.

Speaker C: That.

Speaker A: No, no one does, though.

Speaker B: And save.

Speaker A: No one does.

Speaker B: Your job will save your benefits because getting a degree that you care about is going to be so much better.

Speaker C: How?

Speaker A: Uh, about this. Everyone says, get a military. Let me get my PMP or my HBP or 3141 or let me be a contractor.

Speaker B: Look, the whole concept of getting out of the military, like, it's run by a colonel who's never had to apply for a job in his life. Right? Like, go through the classes, take what you need, but, like, you're gonna have to figure out your own path. And one of the first things you have to figure out when you get out of the military is what do you want to be when you grow up?

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Even if you think you're grown up.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: You were how old when you got out of the military?

Speaker A: 46, 47.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I'm sure you felt pretty grown up. And you also didn't know that you were going to be doing this. No fucking clue now.

Speaker A: Only thing I knew was, uh, this. I knew I didn't. I did not want to be major cabinets when I got it right.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker A: I didn't want to contract your job on Fort Lewis, like, hey, hey, sir. You know, like, I want a clean break.

Speaker B: Most of us didn't exactly get to choose our jobs or our branches, right? Like, mostly that was decided needs of the army and, like, some of us loved it. But, I mean, I moved to Seattle and I started doing security and business intelligence because that's what I thought my resume said. And I. I never actually asked myself, like, what do I want to do? And as soon as I asked myself, what do I want to do? What am I passionate about? What?

Speaker C: Happy.

Speaker B: That's when I started getting on the path. And it has evolved to be very different in the last 10 years. But I've loved it the whole time. Like, I've loved the path.

Speaker A: Like you told me 10 years ago, I'll have a top 2% podcast in the world. As an introvert, like, get the fuck out of here. I would say that you're like, dude, stop smoking crack.

Speaker C: Hey.

Speaker B: I don't think I knew that. Congratulations. That's amazing. Wait, we can't do a toast with an empty glass. So we got to. We gotta do this up here. I mean, I think the concept of the podcast where you just have drinks with interesting people and talk to them is brilliant. Again, like, you know, and who knew? That's something. Maybe this is a good place to wrap up that I think is really cool about right now.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Right. Where I say, like, I have so many people for advice, and I got good advice and bad advice, but there was nobody out there that I was gonna meet. There was going to be like, hey, call yourself Knitting Cult lady and you'll have a million dollar a year brand. Yeah, Like, I. I had to create that and I had to be willing to, like, get out there and fail and do all these things. But, like, there are no rules. I keep telling people there are no rules right now.

Speaker A: Everyone's journey is their own journey.

Speaker B: Part of what is hard right now is we're living through the dissolution of a bunch of systems, right? And so everything feels like whiplash and everything feels crazy.

Speaker A: Nothing's real.

Speaker B: But there also no rules right now. Right. Like, everyone running for office in Texas is trying to get on my show. At, uh, my. At my book event in Louisiana, I had one candidate for Senate and two candidates for Congress dying to come share the microphone with me. And I'm called Knitting Cult lady, and I wear corsets on the Internet, you know, like, there are no rules right now. Um, the amount of people that told me that I would never find success doing the things I wanted to do is a lot.

Speaker A: I mean, you talked earlier about you was just throw some creators and like, yeah, yeah, I did cnn, like, every day. Joe Rogan. I mean, media is a dying breed right now. Joe Rogan outdoes them. Next free mount. Does them, like, it's like, I don't know. Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. No, I mean, I think we're living through the death of traditional media, especially because nobody has confidence in them right now. Right. Like, everyone thinks that media is corrupt.

Speaker A: I mean, the days of Walter Cronkite are long gone.

Speaker B: And it's also interesting, though, because, like, in some ways, I feel like I'm sort of a Walter Cronkite. Right. Because I don't answer to the interests of anybody else except what I think my audience wants to hear and what I want to talk about. And it's so funny to see the administration, like, going after specific anchors on the media because, like, like, I've been deplatformed 10 times and I just come back, you know, so it's like you can't play whack a mole with creators anymore, you know, and the, the someone in the government of Virginia is publicly beefing with content creators right now to the point that she's going to get herself sued. And it's just. It's just so funny. But it is also like, we, we have the eyes on us. You and I have the eyes on us right now. And people can like it or not like it it, but people are listening to us.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And so it's a very interesting time. You know, I do think that 10 years from now, Tom Young is going to be a senator and I'm going to be a media mogul, and you all can come hang out with us in dc.

Speaker A: You spoke in existence. So before we go, let's talk about sinisters, right? The military depression, right? That's a big thing, right? And somebody get stuck for this, right? But for the longest time, right, since before I got the military, right, right. It's always been this thing. 22 people kill themselves every day, right? It's. I'll get slack for the back. Like, how has, how is it still 22 a day after 15 years? Right? Like, what does these stats come from, you think, right? Is it really 22 a day? Is it 30 a day? Like, why is it so consistent?

Speaker B: What I've heard most recently is it's down to 17% today, actually. And I think that sound bites just get popular, you know? Like, I actually quoted once on LinkedIn that 1% of people join. Join. Decide to join the military. And I got ripped apart because it's not actually true. That's just a sound bite. It was like, it was like 1% were volunteering during an act of war. Like, there was a. There was a specific thing where it was used in that speech, where it was true, but it's not True Overall, right. 13% of the United States are. Are veterans.

Speaker A: And my thing, too. Let's suppose it is 22 a day, right? But is it like, is it 22 a day of, like, Iraq, Afghanistan veterans? Or like, I think it's different to like, Afghan Iraqi veteran or like, somebody who's like, World War II, 95 years old, they have no family. Of course the life is. Life is off press or whatever. But if you're 95 and you're like, I can't see you have no family, like, you do. Like, you know, like, I Don't think the numbers. I don't know. I know I'm being, like, kind of dark right here.

Speaker B: No, I don't actually know the breakdown of the numbers. Um, but I am a veteran who has been suicidal, and I have a brother who's a veteran who we lost to suicide. And I think that we approach suicide prevention the completely wrong fucking way in the military and out of the military. You know, like, in the military, all we do is say, talk to your buddy. Talk to your buddy. Talk to your buddy. Unless they're a woman, then don't talk to them, but, like, talk to your buddy. And people do this in the civilian world, too. And for humans who are not suicidal, they truly do believe that saying that, like, hey, we love you and we care about you, is prevention.

Speaker A: But you're in that mode. You don't love yourself.

Speaker B: I think there's one reason that people kill themselves and it is loneliness every single time. It is loneliness.

Speaker A: They see no Petco other than sort

Speaker B: of like, terminal end of life.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Suicide decisions. Right. But, like, unplanned suicide. I think it is loneliness. And I think you can be lonely in a crowd.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, definitely. No doubt.

Speaker B: And I think that when people are in that suicide mindset and they're told, but people love you, the response is, yeah, but if you loved me, you wouldn't want to be in this much pain.

Speaker A: Do you really love me?

Speaker B: When my brother completed and other veterans who I was close to completed, one of my first responses that is so hard to talk about is I felt kind of relieved and happy for them because I know they are no longer in that pain. I immediately had to then deal with my grief and everyone else's grief and all of that stuff. But I know that for them, their pain is over. But I will say this. The one thing that one of the things my mom did that saved my life a lot of times was, first of all, you can just be there with the person, right? So I would call my mom when I was feeling suicidal and just be on the phone with her. And she never once asked me not to do it. And she never once made it about her. Right. She was just there with me. So there's two things that I think are really helpful. One is that understanding that suicidal ideology is not a constant. You get there, and if you can get through that moment, you might not get back to it for another three to six months.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker B: So getting through that moment is very important. So getting your person through that moment is very important. And second of all, my mom told me this, and I don't think she had real statistics on this. She doesn't remember it, but she told me that her doctor had told her that 95% of depression was chemical imbalance. But we always think that it makes sense, right? We always think it's because of this or that or whatever. And she was like, so whenever you feel this depressed, like, you want to do something, go talk to a doctor. And even just. I mean, one time I was on. I was feeling very, very suicidal, and I was on Lunesta. And so I just googled, does Lunesta give suicidal ideology? And everything popped up blaring, stop, stop, stop. You don't want to do this. It's the drugs, blah, blah, ah, blah. And like, I never actually pursued it further to find out if that was true, but it stopped me in that moment. So I think one of the pieces of advice that I think is very valuable is like, this could be a chemical imbalance. This could just be a right now moment thing. Just. Just don't do it right now. Just go talk to a doctor. Just go talk to a friend.

Speaker C: You.

Speaker B: You can always. It sounds dark and it sounds crazy, but, like, you can always come back to this, but you. You can't unmake, um, this decision, right? So. So I think take a pause. Us is one of the best things we can do to help our friends and our buddies and our brothers in arms, like, and sisters in arms in that situation.

Speaker A: Here's one for you, right? Once a person, like, what's the person? This is my opinion, right? I hope that I'm wrong, right? I think if a person decides to do it, there's nothing you do, right? Because most people are going to say, like, I'm not going to say, hey, Daniella, I'm going to do this tomorrow, right? I mean, I give signs. You might say, hey, goodbye. You know, you might give clothes away. But I don't think no one really says, like, hey, hey. I don't even really announce I'm gonna do it, right? I think in my mind is. I know it's dark, and I think when someone decides to do it, they're gonna do it, right? Like, there's a. They have, like, 10 years ago, right? This guy in Kansas City is 6 years old. He actually, like, did the whole plan on Facebook and they took it off, right? He's a sports writer. Kansas City, new, like, paper. He like, hey, I'm 60, have no kids. My wife left me. Like, I don't be a bird of society, like, he laid out how he's gonna do the stuff, Right. I think if someone decides to do it, there's nothing you can do to stop her.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: I'm not saying the dark is sad, but, yeah.

Speaker B: Um, yeah, I agree. And. And that's why. I mean, just in general, you. You can't influence other adults from doing the things that they want to do, right? This is why when people ask me, like, how do we get people out of a cult? I'm like, nobody can tell you that, right? Like, if. If somebody knew how to stop people from taking their lives, they would be extraordinarily wealthy and probably super famous.

Speaker A: And also, like, people always say, hey, like, on the, you know, time, hey, call me. You need help. Like, like most people, like, Mike, I'm not gonna call you. Like, I'm not gonna burden you. Like, you know, like, you have your own problems, right?

Speaker B: It's like, that also puts the burden on that person to have to reach out kind of like in. In their darkest moments, you know? But, I mean, yeah, I think the best thing we can do is we can be there for those people in that dark moment, you know?

Speaker A: The best thing to do is, like. Like, if someone asks you, hey, can I have a coffee with you? Have a coffee. That person, right? Or, like, hey, do you want to have a beer? Have a beer. Like, you never know, like, something small, right? Like, that's like saying hello to someone. You just never know. What you do can influence, impact. Someone's day.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: There's a song by. I think her name is Rachel Platner, and it says something. Something. I don't know about heaven, but I'll walk through hell with you.

Speaker A: Yeah. Okay.

Speaker B: And that is a, uh, phrase that I used a lot with my brother. You know, it was just like, I. I don't know how to fix this for you.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: But I'll sit with you in the darkness, and I'll be there with you. And I think that's the. One of the best things that we

Speaker A: can do, and that makes us up. But I think I remember somewhere, like, you know, like, if you're like. Like, you're like your life kind of. It's kind of. If you're not depressed, you're kind of well off. Like, here's one for you. What demographic has the most, uh, suicides?

Speaker B: I don't know. I know the least is black women, though.

Speaker A: The most is a, uh, trust, um, fund baby. Supposedly the most demographic. Most suicides is trust on babies because they have nothing to live for. Everything's given to them. Yeah, I don't know if that's true or not.

Speaker B: I mean, that's the opposite of the least being black women, right? Like the most oppressed group in this country having the least rate of suicide. And I think a lot of that has to do with just like coming through hard things or kind of being used to. Life is hard. Life is hard. You get through it one moment at a time. And we can't really predict.

Speaker A: But I definitely heard the chemical imbalance. I definitely heard that before. Right? Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, that's one thing. Like there's so many ways to die, right? Just live your life, right? Like, mhm. Just live your life the best you can. Be good to people. Like.

Speaker B: And you know, people don't think about this enough. But like one of the, the phrases my mom has said to herself and to me a lot since we lost my brother was like, 100 of the people you love are gonna die.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, like it, none of us know when that moment is going to come. One of the, uh, my husband and I saw this plaque, uh, in a wine bar once and we adopted it and it said live today. Like he deploys tomorrow.

Speaker A: Oh, that's nice. Yeah.

Speaker B: And because he was deploying all the time, so he was deploying with the most dangerous flying stuff you could do in the world. The special operations 1 60th. And I was an expert on how pilots die, right? And uh, so it was just like, you can't sit around and just think about what if you just can't, you'll go crazy.

Speaker A: You gotta live your life, right?

Speaker B: Like, I made very good logistics plans. Like, I literally had a 20 minute process. I was like, if the car pulls up and I would picture it and I would sit there and I would plan it and I was like, I get, I have 20 minutes before I can fall apart. Cause I have a child, right? And in those 20 minutes, I'm gonna send four text messages and make one phone call.

Speaker C: Call.

Speaker B: And then everyone will come and I can hand things off and I can fall apart. And then the rest was just like, we, we enjoy each other when we are there. We do the stuff we don't. We're not constantly saving for someday. Somehow we take the vacations.

Speaker A: It kills me. People are like, hey, I'll travel when I retire, okay? You retire 65, uh, you're like 35 now. You retire at 65, you don't know how your house is going to be. You don't know what's going on like,

Speaker B: and you don't even know if you're going to be alive then. Exactly. Now you. And I think that's part of it is just like life is hard and life is completely unpredictable. So, like, enjoy yourself to the level that your privilege allows. Take care of other people. And, and that's all we know. That's all we can do.

Speaker A: Could be like, you live in Dallas, Go to Austin for a vacation overview. Can right. Drive down there, go to fucking Salt Lake, go to 6th Street. Right? Like, live your life right? Because it's not fucking promised. Right?

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: And I have to say, I lived in Texas for six years and I still have not been to Austin.

Speaker A: What? Are you serious? There's no, there's no way I have

Speaker B: not been to Austin. I, I like, once visited one of the cult commune homes in the outskirts of Austin, but I have not, like, walked around Austin. Every time I hear Austin is so awesome, I just need to do it.

Speaker A: Have you been to San Antonio?

Speaker B: I have been to San Antonio multiple times, but I've not been to Austin.

Speaker A: So. You know what? El Paso.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: El Paso says underrated city.

Speaker B: And, and the first time I drove through Waco, Texas as a 14 year old, I, I could not understand why it was a functioning city because the only thing I had ever heard about Waco, Texas was the Branch Davidians shootout. I just expected it to be like a smoked out apocalypse scene.

Speaker A: Wacko, Texas. Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: What's, um, the place you haven't been to yet you want to travel to?

Speaker B: Oh, my two biggest ones right now. Okay. Well, my biggest one is Japan and I have been there. I lived there till I was three and a half, but I don't remember it at all. And I really think I'm going to learn about like reverse culture shock when I go there. And I would say my biggest place is Slovakia because that's where my family's from.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: And like, like I'm part Italian and I was just in Rome a week ago. And the amount of people that look like me and like, the way that I feel like I fit there in certain ways was very, very interesting. Versus I was in Spain and I love Madrid, but that was not the experience. So both for me and my husband, it's like his people are Dutch. I, I want to go there and I want to go to Slovakia.

Speaker A: Amstein. That's a cool city.

Speaker B: Uh, because I think those are like missing pieces for me.

Speaker A: So my thing, I don't know why I really don't like the window. I won't go to Norway for some reason. I, um, have no idea why I won't go to Norway.

Speaker B: I also very much want to go. And I just, I just took a connecting flight through Iceland and it was really cool. And flying home 8 o' clock at night to the morning. It was bright the whole way.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And I had never experienced that before, so that was very interesting.

Speaker A: The one thing about Doppo Japan, I heard, like in Japan there's always like this like, mainly like all these teenage females, like homeless, like on the streets, like getting with guys and like. I don't know that's true or not, you know?

Speaker B: I don't know.

Speaker A: Yeah, every place is a dark place, though.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I know we gotta. I know we gotta have real fast, but, uh, one more question. What's the skill you don't know, but you want to learn?

Speaker B: I don't know, but I want to learn. I think, like, right now my biggest thing is music. Like, I'm trying to learn guitar. I have written a musical, but I don't actually have the skills to just like make up music. So sometimes it comes to me. I'm taking a lot of inspiration from the cult, but like, I would love to learn how to like, actually compose melodies for songs.

Speaker A: So. So tell us more about your event on Thursday.

Speaker B: Yeah, I. We're in downtown. Or not downtown Seattle, we're in Fremont. Uh, it is a Thai restaurant that we are going to and I have invited 90 of my closest followers from the Seattle area. I actually had to start stop advertising it about 10 days ago. And so now these people are like, seeing my social media about being here and they're like, are you having an event? I'm like, yes. I'm sorry, it's sold out. Um, so I'm going to have people come in, we'll sign books, I will read a little bit, and then I think I will sing them my new song, Christmas in Afghanistan, that I wrote for my musical. Ta da.

Speaker A: Um, how long were you in the military? Like six years. A year?

Speaker B: Six and a half years.

Speaker A: So obviously you're proud of your service, right? But like, like, um, what's the lesson you learned from your military service that still sticks you to today?

Speaker B: Lesson that I learned from my military,

Speaker A: I,

Speaker B: you know, one that really stands out to me is something my. Okay, so first of all, just learning that studying bad guys is important to everything else, you know? Like, I still don't understand why people don't want to hear about the bad stuff in their company. Because that's the first thing you should want to do if you want to make it better. So, like, basic intelligence skills, I use it every day in my life. But something my mentor told me after I left the military, but it still applied to, it helped me understand my whole experience was where you sit is where you stand. And, uh, that everyone's combination of how they grew up is their worldview. And I think one of the cool things about the military is we get exposed to people that we never would have met otherwise. And, oh, this one's good too, that this goes along with this, that my first NCO IC sergeant, uh, in charge of my section had said. He said, I learned something from everybody that I have ever worked with. And whether that is, like, I've learned what I don't want to be like, or I've learned things that I do want to be like. I, ah, have very much, like, intentionally implemented that. Especially with the challenging people, I'd be like, what can I learn from them?

Speaker A: So that's one thing. I think military is good for it. I was basically training, right? And so there's a black guy from the Bronx, Right. A white guy from Kentucky, right? Right. The black guy's like, I've, um, never seen a white dude before. I hate white people. The dude from T. I've never seen black people. I hate black people. So you know what? The George Horn did, man? Come together, and eight weeks later, the fucking best of friends. Like, family. Like, we're not eating. Eating. Like, we're not eating. We're eating dinner with them. Like, no, you're eating dinner with my friend's family, right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And this one I thought was so funny when people were like, oh, my gosh, Mago's gonna, like, rush the military. And I was like, I'll bet on the military. I. I don't. I don't think individuals are going to break the military. I think the military is going to break individuals. And I always say, like, it's. It's pretty hard to be racist or sexist when you're in a foxhole with a black man and a woman.

Speaker A: So hard.

Speaker C: You know, we.

Speaker B: We get through that pretty quickly.

Speaker A: Especially when, like, the person you hate goes, gets your meal, or like, hey, get your mre or like, hey, you know, let me cover your thing for you. Right? Yeah. Uh, it's. It's so hard to be. Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, there's not a lot of people sitting across from each other that are completely opposite politics like you and I are. And yeah, it. Because we have this shared military Experience, like, we are good friends, and here we are. You know, there's. There's something pretty cool about not getting to pick your team and just being forced to work with people. I think it teaches you a lot of people skills and also just, like, respect for other people who are completely different from you.

Speaker A: That's the thing. People don't, uh, get a credit for, like, the people skills. And I think military get a credit for, like, I don't care. You be E4. I know if I see someone's resume and say, I spent four years military E4. I know at least one time they got in front of at least 100 people to give a class.

Speaker C: Right? Yep.

Speaker A: I, uh, know they got in front of people who gave a class or something. Right. They might have sucked at it. They presented something.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Yeah. Had, like, a wide variety of experiences, which is.

Speaker A: So I, uh, promise the last question. I could talk to you forever. Daniella. So confidence.

Speaker C: Confidence.

Speaker A: Is confidence somebody you have always had or, uh, you learned confidence through the years?

Speaker B: I would say both. I would say it is something I've always had. I think it's one of my autistic traits, is just believing in myself, even if I have no reason to. Um, but also, it is very much a learned thing. And.

Speaker C: And,

Speaker B: you know, I remember, like, when I was getting out of the military and all of the senior officers were kind of trying to scare me about how I would succeed in the outside world, and I kept saying to them, like, you know, you would really be scaring me if I hadn't been dropped off in this country at 15 with $0 and had to make my way, you know, So I don't know if it's exactly confidence, but, like, I've always been willing to bet on myself and bet that I could figure it out, out in a situation.

Speaker A: And why do you think most people don't do that?

Speaker B: You promised. It was the last question.

Speaker A: I lied.

Speaker B: Um, I don't know. I don't. I don't think maybe most people have actually had that intensive experiences that young.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Is one of the answers, you know, just that.

Speaker C: That

Speaker B: I've had to be confident in myself and my performance ability since I was 1 years old. And so it's a skill I learned very, very young.

Speaker A: So, besides the event, if there's anything else going on in the few months you want people to know about, I'm

Speaker B: going to be doing an event in Baltimore on August 3rd and an event in Asheville, North Carolina, on August 26th. And also I have written a Musical called Cult baby. The musical veterans included. And this is my next thing that

Speaker A: I'm trying to figure out how to fund cities. How do you pick Boston? I want to ask for like how do you pick these cities? Is a big following with these places.

Speaker B: Both of these were just events that I were invited to. And so then because I'm traveling there, I will just either invite people to that event or have another event. M. Sometimes it's because enough people ask me to go there that I will go there. Oh and I'm also having an event in Nashville on June 21st and that is because I'm going to Nashville to co write a song song called Cults Always Promise Space travel with uh, one of my favorite artists that I just reached out to and asked if they would co write a song with me.

Speaker A: Nice. Nice. Um, so another lie. Do you ever look at stuff in the mirror like Daniella, like you're the shit. Like Daniel, like you're the boss bitch. Like Daniel Young. Like looking at like Daniel Young, like, uh, I've come so much like, man, I'm so proud of myself. Like, you know, like I have recently

Speaker B: started to do that.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker B: I think it's. That has been an important phase of my healing of being like, hey, you did this. This is really cool.

Speaker A: So I'm pre this interview you. What's her name? Um, Zendaya. Right. She didn't interview one time. Right. And the lady asked her like one time. Do you ever look at the mirror like and tell yourself this was close to me me? You tell you something like this other business close to you? You know?

Speaker B: I do, I do, yeah. Yeah.

Speaker A: I think it's good to that. I think more people need to do that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And you know, if you're gonna deal with the loneliness of being at the top, you might as well also like have the badass moments and tell yourself

Speaker A: it can be lonely sometimes.

Speaker B: So yeah, I. Yes, yes, I do you nice.

Speaker A: I'm m glad you do that. So before we go go. Anything you want to say? Talk about plug, you know, whatever.

Speaker B: I mean, definitely want people to buy my books. I've written two books, Uncultured, which is my memoir of growing up in the Children of God cult and then going into the cult of the US Army. My second book is my bad guys tactics book the Culting of America. This is how people control you. And you can listen to either of those on Spotify premium or anywhere you get your audiobooks, including my social media or get signed copies from me on my social media. I'VE also done what I think is the only thing of its kind, a deconstruction workbook called Unculture Yourself. And you can get that on Amazon or from my social media. And what I want to leave people with is just like, there are no rules. I built a million dollar a year brand knitting and talking about cults. So if you think you want to do something, just go do it it.

Speaker A: Danielle, thank you for your time as always. Thanks for being my friend.

Speaker B: Thanks so much Jason. You're the best.

Speaker A: So listeners, thank you for time as well. Remember to be great every day.