IVY Unfiltered #6: Making Big Bets, Leveraging Your X Factor, Leveling Up & Becoming Fully Charged

Speaker A: Hey everyone.

Speaker B: Welcome back to another episode of Ivy, um, Unfiltered with Barry and Vidal. We're super excited to spend another week, an hour of discussion with you.

Speaker C: Hey, Vidal. Hello everybody. I'm super excited for today. We're going to be talking about five life changing modules ranging from reflecting on how all of us can make bigger bets and master making large scale change. How all of us can better master the art of selling with stories, how we can increase belonging inside our organizations, how we can level up our focus and eliminate procrastination, and um, finally how we can go from burnt out to fully charged. It's going to be jam packed and we're going to be trying a few new things here, uh, to get us started. We're going to start with the module on big bets, how to m Master making large scale change. And this module is with Rajiv Shah. He is the president of the Rockefeller Foundation. He worked with Bill and Melinda Gates on the vaccine program globally, worked under President Obama when it came to the earthquake in Haiti and many other incredibly big humanitarian, big impact projects to get us started. We're going to play a short clip from an insight that Rajeev shared and then we're going to dive into our discussion altogether. Here we go.

Speaker A: What's coming at us every day in media, whether it's traditional or social media, is the problem. It's the bad news. It's the fact that we are blowing past the Paris targets on climate change that we are actually in the last few years, unwinding progress we'd made on health and development coming out of an inequitable recovery from a, uh, global pandemic, Covid in this case, and that in some parts of the world, democracies are backsliding. What I get to see every day allows me to be a super optimistic person about solving these problems because I get to see new health technologies that are going to be able to have much better global surveillance for the next pandemic. So they will be avoidable before they spread anywhere near as quickly as Covid did. What I get to see are, uh, new agricultural technologies that can allow crops to thrive in hotter and drier growing environments. And I know if we can invest in getting Those out to 50 million farmers in Africa, for example, we can avoid a billion people being hungry in the future. I get to see, and our biggest bet right now is investing in small scale off grid renewable energy systems that are already bringing tens of millions of people who live, fundamentally live in the dark. And I see it transforming economies that have previously been war torn and quite, uh, quite depressing actually. Eastern Congo, parts of Afghanistan, parts of Myanmar, northern, uh, communities in India. And it's just transformational. That's what I get to do every day. Um, I get excited about even things we haven't done yet that we're going to do next year. Because I'm sitting with a group of people that have an actual plan to extend nutritious school meals to several hundred million kids who are in schools but not getting food while their families are hungry. Because we know that increases girls attendance by 150%. It increases the likelihood families will allow the kids to stay in school longer by a, uh, significant share. And it allows kids to complete school and go on and get good jobs. But either way, it starts with betting on yourself, thinking you can make a difference and taking those actions to do. And then the second piece I'd say is actually when you do this work, uh, you find that it changes you more than sometimes you change the world. You become more engaged, you become more optimistic, you learn from people you wouldn't otherwise connect to. And, and that's all part of building that big bet mindset that I really do think can help anyone feel more empowered in their lives. Whether you're a CEO or not. Just being super conscientious about surrounding yourself by people who are working on cutting edge solutions and bringing their optimism to the table. And that's how, at least that's how I stay deeply optimistic and then more aware of how these problems can actually be solved on that point. Specifically, there's a story in the book about um, work I did to lead America's response to the Haiti earthquake. As the leader of that effort, I needed to communicate what our goals were, how we were performing, and to over communicate consistently so that people could take some hope that things are working and people knew where to plug in if they wanted to make a difference. And that speaks to the power of positive thinking and having a Big Bet mindset and being an optimist about your capacity to help others.

Speaker C: All right, inspiring stuff from um, Rajeev there. This was a deeply moving module during the interview for me and uh, I'd love to encourage First Vidal to share what resonated most with you from what Rajiv shared and this module in general, any shared experience you might have from it, as well as what you might want to do differently going forward after you shared up Vidal, I'll share it too. And I encourage our whole audience to then have the same kind of reflection yourself based on what you're learning here what's something you've lived through that's similar and what you might want to do differently. This is the kind of thing you could do with a loved one, colleagues, or frankly a group of friends even, to help you level up. So, Vidal, based on Rajeev, what came up for you?

Speaker B: I really love this module and I was really excited to see that this interview was even coming up. And you know that this is a topic that's very close to my heart and I think really comes together with what I consider my ultimate life purpose, which is around. I never phrased it this way, but it's around this concept of big bets. And so for me, the big takeaway from Rajiv is the idea that having a grand, optimistic, big vision perspective on everything is extremely empowering. However, it's important to also take a minute to step back and understand that you don't need to go from zero to a hundred in one step. And in fact, it's a series of small steps that will get us to ultimate innovation. Now, sometimes those small steps can be very quick and sometimes they'll take many years. From my perspective, all of these small innovations need to be centered around some grand objective, some common purpose, and some true optimism and belief that, uh, thing is possible in terms of an experience share. For me, much like everyone else, and this is what Rajiv was talking about in terms of off grid, renewable energy sources for people who don't have energy at all. I worry about climate change. It's a fear that I have. I, I worry about our impacts on the planet. However, I actually don't lose sleep over that worry. And this is something we're going to talk about, the nature of fear a little bit later in the podcast. But for me, that fear actually drives me and drives my belief, my real true belief in the ingenuity of, of humanity to engineer grand solutions to grand problems. And I think we need to not dwell so much on the causes of those problems, the potential negative consequences of those problems. We can dwell on those insofar as they help us come up with solutions to those problems. Based on my experience, the greatest innovations that humanity has ever made in terms of technological advancement has usually been as a result of, uh, a forcing mechanism, which is quite unfortunate. It's war and threat. However, that doesn't mean that's the only way that human ingenuity is possible. In my mind, that means the ingenuity is there. It's just about getting the incentive structure right. And we want to ideally avoid war being the thing that, that drives us. But speaking of climate change, for me I'm really inspired by the Manhattan Project. And I always think about it not in terms of the weapons of destruction that were created. I always think about it in terms of humanity invented clean energy in the 1940s over a five year period. And the Manhattan Project was this beautiful confluence of what I consider these kind of key ingredients. Rajiv mentions these and a lot of the reading I do also mentions these key ingredients for large scale change. One is having the vision, so that's number one. But number two is, is um, a confluence of private industry, the state, academia focused on basic science and basic research without necessarily some overriding output, um, and then private capital and private entrepreneurship. And so I see in, in terms of climate change, what I see is that the entire while it's fearful, I also see it's an opportunity for the entire global economy to, to be rebuilt and that uh, is rife with opportunity for everyone. Every part of that equation for academia, for state, for, for private entrepreneurship. And it's going to be small, incremental, but then large jumps in innovation that are going to get us there. But in terms of a, uh, look in terms of a change, that's like the big picture, right? And I think I can play an important role in that big picture and I hope to in my life by bringing those, all of those parties together. However, what can I do today? And this is the change that I commit to on this podcast. I'm going to do my absolute utmost and I've been trying and I'm going to continue trying and I'm going to do better. I'm going to do my absolute utmost to be the most optimistic person in every room that I'm in. It's, to me, I think it's the greatest favor that I can do for humanity. It's the greatest impact that I can have on humanity and it's the greatest service that I can do to all of those people who are in any rooms around me. So we're in a big virtual room. People are going to listen to this. I'm going to stay optimistic in this podcast. I'm going to believe that we can do better and I'm going to believe that those grand visions are possible. The moment we give up on that hope. I don't know what's the point, right? And yeah, we talk about it all the time. The power of positivity is a really recurring theme on this podcast and it's definitely in the zeitgeist now because as Rajiv says, there's so much negativity and that negativity needs a counterbalance. And the counterbalance is optimism. And optimism will fuel innovation, which will fuel solutions. But we gotta make those bets. If we never make the bets because we think it's impossible. Uh, it's a self fulfilling prophecy and I think that would be extremely unfortunate. So that's it for me. Barry, I'm curious what you thought, what experiences it brought to your mind and what changes you want to make.

Speaker D: Thank you.

Speaker C: Vid. I want to push you a little harder here because your experience share was your reflections on the Manhattan Projects, which you weren't there as far as I'm aware. But you obviously, I know you're a big fan of it, you've worked on lots of different projects ib now, but previously at other places too. What's the specific experience you've had in the past as it relates to where Rajiv was talking about and doesn't need to have gone well for you. Uh, but just what you've observed when it comes to taking big bets and what leads to success or doesn't.

Speaker B: Yeah. In my previous role at kano, um, we made a bet, we really bet the whole company with Alex, my CEO, on a future of the music industry that brought artists and their listeners closer together and redefined the entire economic infrastructure of the music industry. And it was all going to come alive in one device. And when we tried to make that device with a particularly, uh, famous artist, when we tried to make that device, so three, three, four year journey, all in all, from conception to the device coming to market. However, in that four years, the number of times I was told this is impossible, it's never going to happen. The record labels, chip shortages, supply chain stuff, uh, the artists we were working with, it was just like, it's impossible, it's impossible, it's impossible. And you know what? It's by far the hardest project that I've ever worked on. But at the end of the day there was vindication. It turned out that all those impossible things became possible because we really believed and we really bet the company was. It had to be possible. And it did become possible. We brought the product out, we definitely made a mark and left a mark on the music industry. That I believe is the first step towards sustained change in that industry. And uh, at the end of the day, what was so beautiful, it was also the, the company showed its first profit as a startup. So it felt like a real success. And it was, it was, it felt in the moment it felt so difficult and it felt so easy to be defeatist. And it was not. What was troubling was not. That wasn't only external parties saying, this is impossible. It was also some of the people we were working with over that time. And so team changes had to occur because obviously people who are not aligned with the mission weren't really helping the mission. But as we came to a place where the team was completely aligned on that mission, I think we did extremely powerful work. We did, I think, make an important impact on the world. And while I'm not there, um, anymore and I'm working at Ivy now with you, I'm extremely proud of the work that we did. And I give a big shout out to the whole team at KANO and Alex for really believing in making that big bet. Because if that vision wasn't there, I would certainly feel a lot less accomplished, a lot less confident even in the big grand vision for humanity and for our future. Because I saw what a very small, scrappy group of people could do in the face of all of these mega corporate, structural kind of nos and barriers. All those walls got broken through. And yeah, it's super inspiring, I think. And that will fuel me for a long time. Certainly took a lot of fuel out of me as well. However, ultimately, I look back on it feeling extremely rewarded.

Speaker C: All right, thank you for sharing. Um, and I guess since we're going to be covering five, uh, of these modules, I'll just, I'll do my best to share the key reflection, key shared experience on the key action in a minute or two. And, um, I recommend everybody who's going to have a similar reflection to try to do the same so that you're, when you're sharing and connecting with other people over this, they can quickly get a download of what's top of mind for you. So when I listen to Rajeev here, first of all, ah, my key takeaway is that if it wasn't for people taking big bets, we would literally still be in caves. So this isn't even like a debate or an argument. The only thing truly moving the world forward are those big bets that certain folks make to create the projects and environments and initiatives that enable everybody else to work hard to make things happen. But big bets are absolutely necessary. And I think that another key reflection that came up for me is if we just get our information from the news on social media, it can seem like the world is just on fire on all fronts and everything sucks. But the reality is, if we compare ourselves not to some Perfect utopia that never existed. But if we just compare ourselves to the past, uh, on so many metrics of, uh, quality of life and human dignity globally, we're light years ahead of where we have ever been. That was my key reflection and, um, in terms of an experience share, I would say when we started Ivy, it was a very simple idea. It was how do we bring together inspired individuals across the world to meaningfully learn and connect together to shape a better world overall. So community of inspired individuals who want to learn together, grow together, connect together, and create a better world. We had zero experience in building a community. We had zero experience in hosting such experiences. But we had that intention from the, uh, first moment. And instead of doing it top down, trying to like, launch a global organization from the get go. We started with one city, where I happen to live in New York City. We started with one experience, and we started with just getting people to come to that experience with this mission in mind. And they did. Um, from there it grew to a thousand events a year across eight cities. And then it's become what it is now, which is we're working with business leaders across 100 countries, helping them to elevate their performance, their business growth, their off sites, their conferences, uh, you name it. So it all started with the simple intention and I think really reflecting. On the one hand, it was unprecedented what we were trying to do. We didn't have someone to just copy straight up to do what we did. But what made it easier was that prospective members, when they just heard about the vision, they wanted to be a part of it. And, um, everybody spread the word. And, um, we had a very clear parameter. We just put a stake in the ground and said, this is what Ivy is about. And then people self selected into that. And it was easier also for us to create experiences that fit into that by just saying, okay, if that's the mission, does this experience fit into it? And how do we scale it up? The story that Rajeev talked about how Bill Gates would ask this very simple question of, uh, okay, we're going to vaccinate every kid, so nobody, no kid dies from a preventable disease. So the question is, okay, so how much does it cost, uh, for each vaccine per kid? And even though that's a very complicated answer, it's the only question that matters. Because if you know how much it costs per kid, and then you multiply it by the number of kids who need it every year, that's the cost. And if you raise that money, then you can vaccinate everyone with that insight, also looking to the forward, my commitment to change is to uh, ask what would it take to, for everyone in the world to benefit from what Ivy's doing? All these introducing people to one new thought leader every day with a life changing insight. What needs to be true? What would that cost to deliver and how would we actually do that? And the beauty of course media and content and technology is uh, that it can scale infinitely at relatively low cost. So certainly I want to work backwards from that question to clarify our goals and hopefully do everything better. My call to action for our audience is based on this big bet thinking, what's that bigger bet that you want to be taking? Maybe asking yourself, what if everybody in the world were to benefit from your skills, from your interests, from your unique gifts? What would need to be true for everybody to benefit from that? And uh, it could be you, it could be your organization, but what would need to be true for that? How much would that cost? How much time would it take? And even if that's not your intention overall, it's still a very powerful thought experiment to think about. Vidal, would you have a call to action for the audience based on Rajeev and then we'll move to the next one.

Speaker B: I'll uh, just keep it very simple. Try to be the biggest optimist in the room that you're in and really hear yourself when you're not. I think it's important to listen to ourselves as much as possible and self correct. It's as I said, I think it's the biggest favor we can do for everyone around us and for the world.

Speaker C: Yeah. And it makes it easier to be optimistic if we have other optimistic people in our lives. And that's what Rajiv also says. He encourages people to join communities of optimist. Optimist. What are groups you could join? What are things you can engage with that enable you to interact with people solving lots of problems? In the case of Ivy, obviously we're introducing you to one person every working day who's solving a particular kind of problem. And all of a sudden every day at least there's one more person that you're hearing from that's all about solving problems. And there's many other organizations out there. If you have some ideas for our audience, we'd love to hear from everyone in the comments. And uh, with that said, I want to now move to our second module for this week. It's with Richard Mulholland and it's all about story selling. I going to share a quick, uh, insight From Richard, this insight is all about how to identify, uh, the intersection of your X and Y axis to position yourself and your business for success.

Speaker E: Thing to note here is we sell them all the sites. They get their fast food right, so they get everything they came for. And bizarrely, we make most of our money off production. The strategy is the loss leader. The strategy is the thing. I sell them in order to get the work. So it used to be when we were doing big pictures, I would say, guys, don't get a big quote on your entire conference just yet. Why don't we do a conference strategy first? Make sure your messaging is perfect. Like an architect doing the plans before you do the building. You've asked for a building quote, but you've not given us plans. When I'll give you that document and it's very affordable, I'll give you that document and then you can give that to all of our competitors and we'll pitch against them. Every single time somebody pays us to do the strategy, we get the work right. Because there's a post decisional dissonance. They're already using us. So, um, people need to understand that. I'm not saying that, oh, you're no longer a slide making business, you are now a presentation strategy firm. It's just that is the problem that you present to the world to differentiate you. And the problem that I think most businesses have is they've not considered their intersection. Uh, you guys get American Idol over there or you would have got it over the years, right? And there's that British guy, Simon Cowell, bit of an asshole. And he would always stand up there and he would say to somebody, there'd be this singer and they would come on stage and to you and I, they sing and they sound amazing, voice of an angel. But they're meh. They've just got a good voice. And Simon Cowell would always say the same thing to them. He'd say, you don't have the X factor. And for years I thought he just meant like that thing that, uh, what is it? The X factor. And then I realized, oh, no, wait a minute, he's talking about the X axis. The Y factor is you can sing. Okay? So that is the category that you operate in. The X factor is how people find you within your category. Uh, if I stop and ask somebody for directions in New York City, they don't give me an address in the way that they would in Glasgow or South Africa. They wouldn't say, oh, it's in the 35 such and such. A street, they'll always tell you, oh, you'll find it on the corner of this and that. And it's a very helpful dynamic. Uh, and the reason most businesses struggle to explain to customers what they do is that they've not figured out what their intersection is. They spend all their time selling the category that they operate within. And in fact, even when they go to customers, they sell the category problem. So the customer, even if they believe that they want what you sell, they don't really get what makes you different. What I believe that customers and businesses need to think about is what is their X coordinate. So you need to live on the intersection of presentation and strategy. Uh, and by not doing that, by not explaining to customers, that's the real problem they have, that they have a problem that exists here, then they just measure us against everybody else who lives on this big boulevard there. And so businesses need to. And, um, the reason, by the way, that your customers don't understand it is that you don't understand it if you don't know what your intersection is. IB exists at the intersection of business, leadership, content. And now if you're not sure what that is, it's difficult for me. So I need to know why would that be any different to HBR or. I'm not sure. So we have to figure out that intersection and then we have to be ruthless about directing the customer to that one point.

Speaker C: All right. Thought provoking stuff. So if you want to share speaking

Speaker B: to our souls here.

Speaker C: Exactly. So one minute on your key takeaway from this, one minute on, um, a shared experience from the past, and a minute on what you want to do differently based on this.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think the key takeaway is exactly in what Richard said. It's about figuring out what that X factor is. And I think you can look at that X factor in multiple spheres. Right. So you can look at it in yourself. What is my personal X factor? So the Y factor, I would say, like the Y axis is like your talents. These are your natural talents. But many people have natural talents. Many people, uh, almost certainly there are many people who are better than you at, uh, whatever your natural talent is as well. Right. So I don't think, I think it's important to not define yourself by your natural talents. But what's your X factor? Like what cuts across your natural talents? Or what is the special unique sauce of your natural talents? That kind of, that cuts across. I have a sense of that for myself, but I don't think I can confidently answer that question yet. It's probably it's maybe the eternal question. And I have many ideas of what it may be, but I don't have necessarily a great answer for myself. But I've said it on this podcast, probably on every episode that I'm on this deep journey of self discovery. And I think it will be, it will go on for the rest of my life. Um, always trying to understand myself a little bit better, but branching out. Richard was speaking specifically about organizations, but what do they do? What are they good at? But what cuts across. What's that X factor that truly defines. It's like the. Defines the value of what they do. Then I think on a societal level, we can see this in nation states, we can see this in cultures, religions. There are the practices, but then there is the underlying philosophy and values that give kind of weight to those practices. Because in religion or in the norms of a country, it's okay. In the US there's this concept of liberty, but then, and then that manifests in certain practices, but it's the combination of those practices with the underlying value of liberty that then defines the output of that society. And I think we will talk about this later because it's relevant. It's one of the coming modules that we're going to talk about. But that was my overall key takeaway. This X and Y axis is so fascinating to think about and I like Simon Cowell. That example just makes it instantly click in terms of an experience share. I talked about this before. I think for me, I'm going to talk about myself and I'm going to try to a little bit try to discover I know what my natural talents are. I have a good sense, I'm trying to develop more natural talents, but I know I have a sense of what I'm good at and what I'm not so good at. And one thing I realized is, and Richard actually mentions this in the module as well, one thing I noticed is, yeah, I always was aware of this, probably since I was a teenager. But one thing I noticed and embraced in my late 20s used to frustrate me that I was quite introverted and I wanted to present like an extrovert. So I'd act like an extrovert would be very tiring. And I don't think it actually leveraged my natural talents to their greatest degree. But it was when I understood that actually there is power in my introversion and it resonates with people and it can come across even as extroversion, even if it's not. I think that's where I found some semblance of my X Factor, and I'm continuing to seek and look for other X factors. And I guess ultimately the. The change that I want to make is to focus less on what am I good at? And I spoke a few weeks ago about this whole phrase I have about I'm good at other things. The thing is, what am I good at is so much less relevant than what am I uniquely offering? What service am I doing? Because it's not about just the talent. It's like talent married to an intention and an output and a level of service. And just grounding all of my actions and my behaviors in that context, I think ultimately will make my X factor shine brighter. And. Yeah, uh, and X is like a star. And star shine is very interesting. And I think this is probably something that I'm. It's wild. Honestly, right now my mind is worrying because I'm reflecting, even, like, hearing myself. And later on when I'm re listening to this podcast, I'm going to try to listen. What's my X factor? I think that's really what it's like. What service am I doing to the world? Right, but that's your X factor. At the end of the day, what change are. Are you making people feel?

Speaker C: So I'm gonna.

Speaker B: I'm gonna be considering that a lot more closely, thanks to Richard. Um, and I'd love for you to hear. I didn't talk about Ivy here, but I'd love to. I'm sure you have some thoughts on, um, our X Factor, because Richard directly asked the question, which I'm sure you answered in the interview. I'd love to hear more from you on that.

Speaker C: I think what's critical here is it wasn't in the clip we played, but essentially, Richard talks about how there's this four steps of selling, uh, a story. First, you gotta give people a reason to care, and then you build from there again, around the hero's journey. Yes, the customer is the hero, but what we need to remember is that heroes are going about their regular lives. They're not necessarily looking to be heroes, but you get them to, as the provider of a service or product, you get them to go on a mission that they wouldn't have otherwise. That they wouldn't have otherwise done the way I interpreted the X Factor. And my key takeaway here, I don't think it says much about the purpose. I think the purpose is what you're solving for, and I think that is critical. But it's all about what are, like, how are you Doing that from a generally, like, how do humans typically like he gave the example of a bank. All banks need to provide financial services. So you're a bank, but then um, as an X factor, if you're a super innovative bank, everything you do is cutting edge technology and incredibly cybersecurity and like super ridiculously fast and seamless and frictionless. It basically lets people know that yes, not only do you need financial services, but you need them fast and cutting edge and so on. And we can help you with that. But when I think from a uh, shared experience perspective, in the former model of Ivy, there was this constant debate on are we a community or are we like an experience design, like an events company. And clearly we weren't just an advanced company because we had an incredible community of people. But it wasn't just a community because we were building experiences like crazy. We were doing so many of them. Speakers, cultural events, travel across the world. We were extremely creative. We could have been a community that just hosted dinners and that could have been it. But instead we did that. In the newer model of Ivy, Post Covid, there is this again a bit of attention between are we a learning and content and so forth company, or are we actually more of a, uh, uh, transformation, coaching, facilitation, experience design company? And before, the mistake I was making was what do I optimize towards? Whereas the clarity which it brings here is not. It's literally one is the Y axis, the other one is the X axis. So depending on the situation would help business leaders and companies achieve their most important goals. So you could say we are in the business of um, getting people from A to B as a Y axis, but how we get them there is this combination of life changing learning, life changing connection and transformative behavior change. So the X axis is that combination of those three areas. And of course as a founder, this is parallel to me trying to figure out like what am I trying to do with all the incredible blessings that I've had, whether it's the skills and networks and the incredible good fortune I've had all my life to get to do what I do. It's been a, uh, yeah, it's taken 13 plus years to figure out. All I'm trying to do is get people from A to B. How? Oh, uh, A to B how? Right. What? A to B in their lives and their organizations and the impact they want to have, uh, make on the world. Okay, cool. But how specifically? By providing them with this combination of learning, connection and behavior change. That's my experience. Share Getting to that clarity, I wish it didn't take 13 years, but I'm also glad that at least it feels clear now because it could have taken another 13 more years to get. Get even more clear. As far as a commitment to change that I can make here is to just be a lot more clear about this in our materials and how we say what we do. And, um, Richard and I spoke before this interview and he immediately downloaded the Ivy app. He's been checking it out every day. He showed me had a 57 day unbroken streak of consuming the daily insights. But he himself was probably not clear even during the interview is, yeah, I get you have like amazing content, but how is it different from hbr? And the reality is it's different from HBR in some ways. But the true reality is, yes, we have the content, but it's to help people get from A to B. And we combine that content with connection and behavior change. And in the spirit of that, my call to action to the audience is now, you just heard an insight and you heard me and Vidal share. If you were to discuss this within your own company. Um, if you just ask everybody, okay, so what was the key learning you got from this? What's the shared experience you have? And what do you commit to doing differently? What should we do differently altogether? Just in a few minutes you can have, uh, that connection and behavior change to supplement the learning that you're already getting from listening to this. With that said, Ridal, do you have a call to action for the audience before we move to the next one?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'd say when you're doing that exercise, reframe your conception of. Or reframe the question. It's a different question, which I think Richard proposes and Barry, you and I are both New Yorkers, so we understand this analogy. So for those that are not New Yorkers, think of a grid system. 12th street and 7th Avenue. It's very interesting to think of an organization. Rather than asking, what does our organization do? You can ask, where is our organization? And present the answer in terms of. At the intersection of. Of two axes. Right. It's like this and this. It is very rare. I would be very surprised if there was any organization in the world that's just, no, we're just on one track and nothing intersects at all. So it's an interesting question. Rather than what is Ivy? Where is Ivy? Or what is my company? Is where is my company? And not, um, in terms of where it is in its journey, but where is it located and the services that it Provides and it's its natural talents and what it's good at doing and the solutions it offers.

Speaker C: Uh, awesome. This is the first time I've been doxxed, so thank you for that. 12th and 7th. Now people know where I'm at, so thanks for that.

Speaker B: I'll bleep that out.

Speaker C: No, it's fine. It's fine. Everybody, let's hang out in one floor. Which building?

Speaker B: So it's probably 100,000 people in the block.

Speaker C: Uh, yeah. But I guess at a minimum, if everybody, based on this conversation, can zero in on if you can comfortably say for your organization, where are you X and Y coordinates? But also as an individual, where are you X and Y coordinates and um, the nation state you live in, what do you think are the X and Y of that that make it truly special, regardless of what political mishaps are going on? And if you live in a country without any, let us know. I don't think that exists, but it's good to know. And if you're in an organization with no problems, also let us know. I don't think that that exists, but I think it's good to know where are we operating in terms of helping the world solve problems and people? And what's our special sauce? The X factor. All, uh, right, great discussion so far. We're gonna now move to Brad Doister and how to turn into power and create lasting organizational change. This conversation was all about belonging. So I'm gonna play this particular insight and we'll continue our conversation. Here we go.

Speaker F: In all organizations, there are structures that exist that inhibit our performance. Sometimes they're leadership, sometimes there's boards, sometimes there are policies that we create or that were created many years ago. Sometimes they're mandates, societal mandates that we are trying to navigate. And what happens is as leaders, what we're seeing more and more is leaders simply working around, going around either either way the structure. And so what happens is that we create solutions. But they're often temporary solutions. They're often things that we tell our people, look, I did this when with all the conversation about diversity, equity, inclusion, hey, I hired a DEI director, okay? But the organization isn't necessarily accepting that you've simply gone around the power structure. And as I talk about it, we're compliant. We check the box versus the scale is really committed. It's compliant to committed. And if we're compliant in this, we very rarely create long term systemic change. We very rarely allow our people to perform at their highest levels. So turning into the power is really about Understanding what those structures are. And so the how on that. And again, part of our work is never ever to, to tell uh, leaders what they should do. We believe that leaders know what is right and best for them and their organizations. The rules simply give us a mechanism to say how can we do these things? So it's really important. So as we think about turning into the power, we ask people to pause, just take a deep breath, are there things? And ask the bait fundamental questions. Are there things, are there structures, are there things in my pathway that are inhibiting my ability to perform, that are inhibiting my team's ability to perform, that are stopping us from the good that we can do as an organization. I, uh, challenge people to ask questions because we'll hear all the time. I'm not the CEO, I'm not the president, I'm not the owner. I can't turn into the power. And the reality is we all can turn into the power and we can do it in a non threatening way. Let's just go back to the origins as we think about this policy or as we think about what we were trying to do, simply asking, is this the right way or can there be a better way? And it's understanding the nature of power. I understand in my organization that it's, it's I own the company and if I say something to someone who is new or younger or in a different place, they may go, wow, there's a power differential. But we try to create a culture and environment where hey, it's people don't work for me, they work with me. And so how do we recalibrate that to invite that conversation in? That's how I think about turn into the power. That's how I approach that one. Uh, I think that really goes to the power of the question and I think that we, it's okay for us not to have answers. Some of these things have been embedded in our organizations or in our society for a long time. And we, there may not be immediate answers. And I am okay with organizations that say I didn't realize that was there. And so part of this is accepting that there may not be a quick fix. Part of it is really having the conversation. And that is what you'll hear throughout each of these rules is what are the questions that we can ask that invite people in. Again, we're the leader. It doesn't matter where we are in the hierarchy, but we are the leader here, inviting people into the conversation. And hey, let's talk about where did, why, what's the Reason that this is here, where did it come from? What problem was it addressing? Have we thought about the fact that today there are other issues? And I think you look at so many of the societal, the political, now the global issues that we have, people are polarized. And so we bring people together by removing the fear that, that psychological safety, that, that imbalance of fear and trust. And we create environments where it's okay to turn in where we expect it and we expect ourselves to ask questions and get to the ultimately, as we get to rule number five, 100% of the truth.

Speaker C: All right, so we started with taking big bets. We talked about how to then better sell our solutions to motivate others to partner with us to help achieve their goals better. Now we're talking about internal dynamics and how critical it is that people feel that sense of belonging to thrive within organizations. When you heard what Brad had to share, Navida, what was your, you know, quick minute takeaway, your shared experience on what you might want to do differently going forward?

Speaker F: Sure.

Speaker B: Uh, so I think for me the takeaway is largely in the concept of belonging. Belonging is a trigger word for me as a lifelong immigrant. I've always felt out of place or unbelonging in every environment that I've been in. But I've learned to become much more comfortable with that over the course of my life. And, and I think it parallels to where I've been physically, geographically and the cultures I've been in my life and organizations I've been. But I like the way that Brad defines belonging being a sense of acceptance where agreement across the group is not a prerequisite. But, uh, there is a shared framework so everyone doesn't need to agree on everything. But there is a shared framework under which you all operate. And for me, I think understanding and kind of internalizing this idea that conflict or opposing views and challenge, especially from a leadership perspective, is particularly when it's channeled effectively, it leads to better outcomes and it leads to what he called truth, like a hundred percent of the truth. Uh, and it makes me think of last week's episode when you talked about the washing machine method in terms of letting everyone speak and going around over and over again and letting people ask those clarifying questions without immediately responding or becoming defensive. It's a mode of powerful leadership. And yeah, I think it made me think the wider module. Brad, uh, talks a lot about diversity in organizations and how to make people feel more belonging. It made me think of the concept of diversity because we cherish diversity of opinion, diversity of perspective, diversity of background and experience in organizations, not because they're an end to themselves. That diversity and all of those different metrics are uh, what allow us to come closer to a real truth on an aggregated basis. So it's not about diversity for diversity's sake. It's about diversity of opinion and experience and perspective to come to a better truth. And a leader that doesn't hear all of that is going to be a leader that by definition is going to have a very narrow view of things. And what is the point of having a team? Obviously it comes to this question of in business, uh, as he talks about turning into power, comes to this question of our businesses. They're not consensus based organizations necessarily. They're not democracies or republics, you know, they are dictatorships. There is someone who's ultimately accountable. But for that ultimately accountable person to perform for their teams, for their clients, for all of their stakeholders, it's in their best interest to have a team around them, um, that does challenge and is free to challenge within a shared framework. So when people go outside of that framework then it becomes problematic. But it's okay to disagree within the shared framework of this is what we're about, this is how we behave, this is how we interact with each other and external parties. And then conflict leads a better outcome. I'm just going to briefly, I definitely want more in the minute in terms of experience share. I talked about geography. For me, I grew up in relatively homogeneous societies in Istanbul first, then Scotland. When I was 12, I moved to New York City. And all of a sudden I realized the power of having this heterogeneous society which is truly diverse. And what's beautiful about New York City, and it's maybe a microcosm of the whole American experiment, but what's beautiful in New York City is there is such a diversity of experience and opinion and perspectives. But it pushes the city and that, uh, and the entire society further because people are challenging each other all the time. It's not this homogeneous. We all believe in the same thing, we all have the same the outcomes. The beauty of big cosmopolitan cities and what makes them these kind of tier one amazing places of innovation is because there is that shared framework, the laws and the norms under which you live in that city, in that society. But the diversity of the individuals in it leads to a better aggregated outcome. And so I was very happy to have spent my formative years in New York City, even though I'm in London now, which in its own way is obviously extremely cosmopolitan. But I think misses some of that X factor of New York, which we can talk about. That's a longer discussion. And, and frankly, I'm just going to say for myself as, as far as the change I've been observing, this also comes back to the point of being the most optimistic person in the room. I've been observing myself even though I try to measure my level of social media usage and screen time. But I've been finding myself more and more within an echo chamber, finding it easier to not say that, express that conflicting opinion amongst friends, amongst whatever group that I'm in. And it goes against my natural contrarian instincts. So generally I, it's when I was younger, if someone expressed, if someone said the word clearly or obviously, I was like, all right, it's game on. Uh, nothing is clear or obvious. I would just argue the opposite. I was just like, probably to the point of being a little bit obnoxious. And lately I've been finding myself calming down in that regard or just just not being as conflicting. But it's not about conflict, it's about seeking truth. So the change in commitment I want to make is to embrace that natural contrarianism that I had. Because it's not annoying, right? It just has to be expressed within the shared framework of, of whatever group that I'm in, within the norms of that group. Then it's not obnoxious, it, it makes for a better conversation at the very least, if not leading uh, to a better truth and challenging the other person to really consider what they're talk thinking about, um, and what their perspective is and come to probably more truth within themselves as well. So that was it for me. I found this very powerful and I think it applies again on many levels. From the self in your own mind, in your team, organization, family, and for society at large.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. So for me, clearly belonging is critical. We know this from Maslow's hierarchy comes up once in a while on the spot. We, we need food, we need shelter, and then we need belonging. It's at Ah, the Table 6 fundamental level. The thing that's the key takeaway from hearing Brad here is that one of the best ways to actually create belonging is to solve problems together, to jointly figure out what the blockers are and jointly figure out how we can remove them rather than different people in different silos trying to figure it out on their own and telling people what to do. So it reminded me of if you imagine a tribe in the past living more nomadically, let's say, around the fire and caves, and things like this, if the leader just comes out of nowhere and is like, all right, we're going to just go this way now, people would be like, uh, but why? Whereas if instead the leader was like, hey, let's have a gathering. We got to decide which way to go. Let's hear from everybody. What have you observed in the different directions you've been exploring? Um, what are we solving for? Which direction seems like the best bet. What's maybe stopping us from getting to where we want to get to faster? If everybody even shares about that, then all of a sudden everybody feels, okay, I'm a part of something where I'm a part of figuring out how to solve the problem, and I have a role in helping solve that problem. So in every company, certainly in my journey, my initial completely inexperienced founder CEO experience was like, I have to figure out, like, the hardest problems and then tell people what to do. And thankfully, not as quick as I would have liked. But, uh, over time, I realized, wait a second, I may have an idea of a direction I want to go. But if I present that and then really have everybody share their opinions on what they love about it, what they don't like about it, or how they think we can get there faster, it's worked much better, as I shared extensively on our last podcast episode. So certainly that's critical. As far as what I want to do more of going forward, I think it's just having a much more concrete blocker portfolio, like a portfolio of blockers that we discuss as a team internally, but also other teams that we work with if we can get really always zeroed in on. Yes, we have our strategies and we have all the KPIs and whatnot, but at any given time, we know this quarter, these are the three blockers that are blocking us the most from being able to fully get from A to B, and we know who's doing what. And going back to Francis Fry and Anne Morris, ideally, they should be such significant blockers that if you solve them, the business could grow 10x and the internal sentiment could double. So having that blocker portfolio, uh, also in my own life. And we'll get to some, you know, the remaining two modules, we're going to decide what are my three blockers that are maybe not holding me back from feeling amazing and crushing it internally and externally? Um, if I'm meeting someone new, how quickly can I get to what are their three blockers? And having that conversation, um, I think can be really good. So I'm going to really endeavor to Quite literally in every environment in my life, have that thought. But instead of trying to come up with it myself, if it's about me, then I guess I can come up with it myself, but with every other shared context, whether it's in my relationship with my significant other, with my own company, with all the other companies we work with and friends and strangers, really getting to those root cause blockers collectively to create that sense of deep connection with each other, but also having that conversation gives way to figuring out how can we each do the things we need to do to remove those blockers. My call to action to the audience based on that is, what are your three blockers? What are your organizations? What are the three blockers to your family or your relationship if you have a significant other in that key relationship? And can you create time and space, a container to discuss with the other people involved what those three blockers may be and how you could solve it together? Probably all doing this in some shape or form already. But are we doing it as crystal clear as that? I know that I'm certainly not. And I can step up and I encourage everybody to do the same.

Speaker B: I just add to that. My call to action is just a slight addition to that, which is. It's so important. I completely agree with you. I think that's a. It's a really powerful call to action. Barry, I just say that conversation, in whatever context is happening, whether it's in your family or in your team or in your own mind. Mind when you're in the shower, this should be a positive conversation. So blockers, if you dwell on it, it might feel like it's getting negative. You're focusing on, like, the downsides of things you're not good at, uh, or where you're not performing, where you're not meeting your potential. But the beauty is, if you just accept from the get go, there are blockers. This is just the nature. So it's just about leveraging strengths that you already have to subdue those blockers or to navigate those blockers more effectively and framing it in terms of a positive discussion and a constructive discussion. I just think that's very important. So it shouldn't be negative. It should be rooted in optimism and what you're trying to achieve.

Speaker C: That reminds me David Deutsch, who we have not yet interviewed, but his time will come. He's at Oxford, physicist, and he really drives home to this point of problems are inevitable and problems are solvable. So I think we can also, in the spirit of what you're saying, but we need to elevate our relationship with problems. They don't need to be negative. And David Deutsch gives this amazing example, which is imagining you meant a medicine that saves 100 million lives. That's categorically good, right? Like 100 million people survive because you invented this medicine. But guess what? Those 100 million people, they need food, they need shelter. Some of them will turn out to be not so great people, and they're going to cause problems. But, uh, what, would you rather not have the medicine? Would you rather those people didn't exist? Of course not. For all of us. Whatever it is that you do. Okay, whoever is listening to this, imagine you win a Nobel Prize for that. Okay? Imagine they create a new category of a Nobel Prize if need be, and they give you one. You think all your problems are going to be solved now you're going to have the problem of, damn, now I'm a Nobel Laureate. Now I got it. You're going to have a whole set of new problems because now you can have such a bigger impact with your newly found recognition. And so it's not the problems, uh, that we need to be avoiding. It's just more about, okay, what are our newest problems? And let's get excited to solve them. Because just like all the problems that, uh, we have, like, we only got where we are by solving the problems that we solved before. So it's just, I think, maybe a blessing to say, like, how awesome that currently we're surviving anyway and we have a shot at solving more problems. That's freaking awesome. Another practical way of doing this is to, uh, start with your strengths instead of starting right with the problem. So where are we already crushing it? And then in that context, what are, what's blocking us from crushing it even more? How do we remove those that can also really help? That's probably a conversation for another time, but great discussion with also going to do two quick ones and wrap up our session for today. So the next one is with Rob Dial, and we're going to be, uh, hearing his reflection on how we can leverage visualization to better build a future that we want. So I'll play this real quick here.

Speaker G: When I sit down to meditate, all I do is think about the future. Like, I might get a moment of being present, but I'm always in a future. And, um, I know personally that the future that I'm imagining is what I'm going to be feeling. And so we can all agree that we fear sometimes a future that we create in our mind, right so the question is, if I can fear a future that doesn't exist yet or doesn't exist at all, could I also feel gratitude for a future that doesn't exist yet? And that's what I. And it really comes down to a lot of times I think we have to push ourselves to get work done towards our goals. When in reality, what I want to do is feel pulled towards the goals that I want in the life that I want. And so visualization. When, uh, I started first started doing visualization, first time I ever did it, I was 13 years old. And I started really getting into visualizing. And what I realized is that I'm always imagining this future that I don't want. And it's really scary. And a good example of this is when I was probably about seven years ago, my friend had a birthday party and he rented a go kart track

Speaker C: where you go like.

Speaker G: They go like 50 miles an hour. And the guy who owned the track was this guy who was who used to be a ex Le Mans driver. And he was French and he was funny, and he was having a good time, and he was explaining to us before we got in and got to strap up and everything. And he's having a whole bunch of fun. And then he gets really ridiculously serious, and he goes, somebody's gonna crash. He goes, if somebody crashes, don't look at the crash. Look at where you want to go. Because if you look at the crash, there's a pretty good chance you're gonna hit your friend. And there could be really a lot of danger that can come from hitting your friend at 50 miles an hour with no protection. And you don't want to kill your friend, so look at where you want to go. And I was like, oh, my God, this is literally life. Like, when I sit down and ask

Speaker C: people, what do you want?

Speaker G: They usually tell me what they don't want. Because they're constantly thinking, I don't want to be broke anymore. I don't want my business to fail. I don't want to be judged. I don't want my partner to be like this anymore. And they're always telling me what they don't want, which shows me that's what they're always focusing at all point in times is what it is that they don't want. And so you really start to think about and you say, oh, my God, I actually am imagining these futures that are not the most exciting. So how do you do it? Why don't you just start imagining a future that you do Want, instead of looking at the crash, why don't you actually look past the crash at, as this guy said, where you want to go.

Speaker C: All, uh, right. Without. We know you love sports. What's your key resolution from this one? Shared experience. And then what are you going to do differently?

Speaker B: Look, just from a sporting perspective, visualization is so important. And he's talking about go karting, but this applies in every sport. Every elite athlete closes their eyes before a big race, game, match, whatever, and they imagine themselves winning. But it's not. They're not. This is, as our friend Jim Quick actually put it in Monaco earlier this summer. He said, if you can't imagine it, then imagine yourself imagining it. Visualization is so important. You have to figure out how you can see that outcome really occurring. So that's, that's my big. I. I immediately thought of sports. But actually for me, my resonation on, um, on this one is more about the nature of fear. Because Rob, the rest of the module, Rob talks about the kind of two kinds of fear that there are. There's primal fear and there's intellectual fear. And primal fear is supposed to be like real fear. Like I'm, um, falling from a building or whatever. I'm on a roller coaster, I feel like I'm falling. Like, these are primal fears. These are like, okay, I'm in real danger, there's a tiger that's going to maul me or whatever else. And then there is intellectual fears, which are these fears that we create in our minds which are not necessarily going to happen. So it's the same way if you're visualizing that you're going to be in a race car, race, motorsport race, and you visualize and you're like, I don't want to crash, but you're thinking about crashing. You increase your likelihood of crashing if you're visualizing winning the race or just getting through the race without crashing as a positive. Right. It's equally likely, I think, what it made me reflect on, um, and this is something that I've struggled with. So this is really my experience. Share. Intellectual fear feels like primal fear oftentimes. And this is at, uh, the root of anxiety. And the reality is that anxiety and fear does not always manifest first as a thought. It might in fact manifest first as a weird feeling in your body. Then it might manifest in terms of an emotion, dread, anxiety. And then it can manifest in the behavior. Avoidance is the most common one, but it could also be freezing. So avoidance would be in the fight or flight. It would be like Flight. But it can also manifest in anger and shouting and all rage. And then you, at the very end, you might come up to the thought of, what am I afraid of? Or what's causing this fear? And so what's really important, I think, is this is just a realization that I've come to, is that understanding that intellectual fears don't need. In fact, I'm going to be quite prescriptive here. I don't mean to be prescriptive, but it's something that I've really learned, I want to encourage, is that, uh, don't devalue the impact that intellectual fear can have on you. You have to embrace it. If you devalue it, if you minimize it, if you say this is stupid fear, you're not then tackling the underlying causes of that fear. And it will feel like a primal fear. So you have to accept it for what it is. Intellectual fear. It's the same as visualization. Our brain can make whatever we're afraid of, whatever we're intellectually afraid of, feel extremely real in our bodies. We have to identify that. Accept that, huh? And fight against that. It's something that I've been doing recently as I, due to a, uh, minor health condition, I'll say in it, has necessitated me to be fearful of certain things and avoid certain foods. And I was living my life in physical pain and fear, not because of what I was supposed to avoid, but just because of the potential of having to avoid that thing. And it really threw me for a loop. And it's been hard work to come back from that. But it came from accepting the fear, not avoiding it. So it's about approaching what's causing the anxiety and what's causing the fear and not solely pushing it aside or trying to minimize it or say this isn't legitimate. Just because it's an intellectual fear. It doesn't make it any less legitimate than a tiger in your room that's about to kill. Your body's reaction is very similar. I'll put it that way. You should probably run away if there's a tiger in your room. But your body's reaction is very similar in terms of a change. I would say it's that, uh, dichotomy of avoidance versus approaching. And it's very easy to avoid problems and causes a fear. It's very difficult to approach them. It's difficult to even face those fears. And, um, we have another thought leader in an excellent module with Moana Marquez where she talks about this extensively. So I recommend that to folks. But Think of yourself in terms of approaching what you're fearful of, but equally, as Rob is saying, from an optimistic perspective, better yet, approach the positive outcome. So the real transformation is when you don't think about the bad outcome or the, uh, outcome that you don't want to happen. You think about the positive outcome and you really, truly visualize that it's more likely to happen. And I don't want to, I don't want to challenge Rob on this. But, uh, sometimes the bad outcomes do happen, so those shouldn't paralyze you. It's, that's part of the visualization. So it's, this is the total set of possibilities. But I'm really focused on the outcome that I want. And I think it's helped me not feel paralyzed, frozen, fearful, flighting, and really just bit more comfortable. It's like I wake up in the morning and there are those things I'm afraid of. Uh, there's those things that's making me anxious and I'm like, okay, let's make

Speaker E: it a good day.

Speaker B: What else can I do? Let me try to solve one problem. I'm going to feel a little bit better. Maybe I can solve all the problems.

Speaker C: Uh, what are you specifically going to do differently though? On top of all that that you've been doing as a, based on what he said, what's one very tangible thing you're going to do differently?

Speaker B: Ah, uh, there are those days you wake up with fear because there are those days.

Speaker C: Say it as an eye. Say it as an I. Language. Don't say. You just. Yeah, just make it your, um, own.

Speaker B: Okay. I go to sleep many nights with some fear in my mind. Thankfully, I'm lucky that doesn't keep me up at night. I am able to fall asleep, but I wake up with this dread. So the sleep is the avoidance. So it's. I'm fearful of what's happening tomorrow. I'm gonna go to sleep. And I sleep well because it's an avoidance technique for me anyway. Everyone's different. And then I wake up with that fear and I think, oh, uh, okay, I can't sleep anymore. What am I gonna do now? I gotta approach the day. And I think what I've been doing actually, so this is very specific. What I do is I just make a. There's such a long list usually of, uh, things that can go wrong, things go badly, whatever. I make little lists for that day. It's like that day's to do list. And I actually write down the outcome so that I can make My little check box on Apple notes. I don't say what it is I have to do. I say what the outcome I'm trying to achieve is. And that's usually a positive outcome. And I get great pleasure from checking off those boxes. It feels manageable. It feels okay. Like these are, these fears can be converted into positive outcomes. And I make those little micro to do lists. So that's not a change. It's something that I've started doing. Um, I want to be quite deliberate in making that into a practice and a habit rather than a thing that I'm doing. Make it a habit, habitual. Let me think about this day. What are the outcomes I'm going to. So it's like the achievement rather than the process. Processes are scary. Achievements feel much better. So that's it. And thanks for pushing me, Barry. And thanks for making me do the I statements. Coached on that part. And I'll try to always keep that in mind.

Speaker C: Yeah, keep me on point also. So, Mikey, takeaway from this. What Based on what Rob said, first of all, what an, um, incredible reminder that we know we have a negativity bias, like biologically, right? So we're, our bodies and brains are wired to help us survive, and that's why we react. We click much more on negative news and that's why news is so negative. And social media also, like, it just gets more clicks because our minds are wired to react against us. So we know this and we want to, we need to counter this. And we know it takes a lot more positivity to counter one bit of negativity. As, uh, Dante Masula said, if it's a scale, negative thoughts are like pebbles, positive ones are like feathers. So the key takeaway though, from this one, uh, what Rob said, is that we can also apply this to our future visioning. And whether we like it or not, we're constantly thinking about what could go wrong. And it's good that gets us to make sure that those things don't go wrong. Right. It's waking us up. But if it's at the price of not thinking enough about what can go right, that's actually very dangerous. Shared experience. I feel like I'm extremely naturally strong at something, uh, clicking in my head. And I can imagine, uh, like a different future. I can imagine something very fast. But my kind of missing piece here, like where my area of development and what I'd want to commit to differently is I move so quickly from that to solving the problem, and then I get completely immersed and get like, whatever Needs to be true to get there. But I don't actually allow myself to really visualize it on a regular basis. Like really put myself there, really see it happening. And this is Dale Carnegie, Napoleon Hill stuff, like a positive thing and look at it every morning. I don't do that actually, because I visualize it already. Now I'm taking action, but the reality is my brain is automatically thinking all the things that can go wrong and I'm not necessarily countering it properly every day with how right that can be. And certainly having gratitude for a brighter future I haven't had yet is something I don't think I've ever done. I haven't been like, I'm so grateful for this. How everything works out in the future. I don't. It feels like I had actually never even thought about doing that. So I'm certainly going to try to do that certainly for the next week until, um, we record our next one next podcast together. But I think that could be like a really good one. And I want to encourage everybody in the audience as my call to action is, can you dare to visualize a positive future and be grateful for it already that it happens, or is it too scary to dream of that? Because what if it doesn't happen? That I'm going to be rot with disappointment? That's the fear, right? Maybe that's also why I don't allow myself to do that on a regular basis. Even though, uh, at least to my credit, I am good at visualizing what could be and then give it my all to get there. But I'm terrible at letting myself believe it every day. I think I fundamentally believe it deep inside, deep down inside. But that's different than positively visualizing what it could be highly recommend to everybody to think about doing that. Positive visualization, having gratitude for it. Maybe do it together with a significant other or a colleague or with your executive team or with your team at large and enjoy, uh, the good vibes that comes from that. Vidal, any call to action from you before we move to our game changing thought?

Speaker B: No, my call to action is just to echo you. It's. Yeah, having gratitude for something that has yet to occur is extremely powerful. It puts a smile, really. That idea warms my heart now. And so I will do that as well. I will certainly do that as well. It's. You can't be negative then. It's. It's not just imagine, it's feeling that's real. Having gratitude. It's something extra. It's very powerful. Great prompt, Barry Love that and thanks, Rob, as well, for the idea.

Speaker C: Yeah. Obviously none of this discussion would be possible without our amazing thought leaders. We're into home stretch now. One final module we're going to cover briefly. We talked about making big bets. We talked about creating belonging, we talked about visualizing and all of this. Many might be wondering, how the f am I supposed to do all that? If you saw my to do list with a million items and everything that's on the verge of collapse, and I'm trying to keep everything together in all areas of my life, how do I actually do this? So, last module we're going to discuss is to address this point head on. It's, uh, with Neha Sangwon and her whole discussion, her whole new book is all about how do you go from burnt out to fully charged? Because if you're burnt out, you're going to be stuck in this, as Vidal told us about this chronic mediocrity. And you're also going to start becoming ineffective. Whereas if you're fully charged, there's nothing that you can't do. I'll, uh, play a very short clip from Neha and then we'll go on to our discussion.

Speaker F: Here we go.

Speaker D: Physical energy. Let's say overall, we talked about where you are from burned out to fully charged. That can be determined by whether you have a net gain or a net drain of energy on a physical, mental, emotional, social and spiritual level. So we're going in at physical right now, and they're all connected, by the way. You're exactly right. You improve one of them, the other ones all start improving. You're drained in one of them, the other ones start going down. Physical energy, the way that I like to do a pulse check on this to see where you are. Because we're all going to fluctuate from burned out to fully charged. We're going to be somewhere in between and, uh, all the way throughout our lives. I would say as a pulse check, ask yourself, how satisfied am I on a scale from 1 to 10? 1 is not satisfied, 10 is extremely satisfied. How satisfied am I with my food, energy, sleep and movement? Food? Am I nourishing myself with whole foods regularly throughout the day? Energy. Do I feel a consistent energy throughout the day? Or do I have energy dips that I maybe am using caffeine and, uh, a chocolate chip cookie to get through sleep? Do I get seven to nine hours of quality sleep a night? Or do I wake up feeling rested and movement? Do I have a joyful way to move in my body several times A week. So multiple times a week. Now, you write, you rank your own satisfaction here, because it's not about what I think is right or what somebody else thinks is right. It's about how satisfied you are in your physical energy. You know, what it feels like to be in your body. Also, I also ask, what about physical symptoms? Are you experiencing some physical symptoms that maybe you're thinking, oh, it's not that big of a deal now. I can deal with that later. And you're putting them off. And how much are those impacting your physical energy? Now, what you do at the end of this question, uh, these questions is you just give yourself a ranking, and then anywhere m that you've given yourself less than a 10, you just jot down what would make it a 10. So now you have your own plan for physical energy. And now at the end of that, I want you to use not just the answers, your mind that has answered these questions. I want you to do something that a lot of senior executives and leaders don't do. Grab your airpod case. Grab something that's comfortable to hold in your hand. I'm just going to grab the nearest thing next to me. Okay, I, uh, have this. And I want you to tune inward and pay attention to your own physiology. As you're answering these questions on physical energy, do you feel open, relaxed, and at ease, or does your body feel constricted, tight, heavy? Because your mind might be saying, yeah, I'm satisfied on all of those things. And your body is saying, no, I'm not okay with what's happening. So what you want is you want to take a look at the answers, and then you want to check in with your body as well. Those two need to be in harmony. They need to be saying, yeah, we agree. And then you answer the final question, which is, what's my overall assessment? Pulse check. Right now, in this moment of my physical energy, is it a net gain or a net drain? So you're using external data on the page, and you're using internal data, your own physiology.

Speaker C: All right, so when, uh, I was interviewing Neha, when I was interviewing neha, uh, and, uh, I take notes in real time. During the interviews, I copied and pasted my notes to Vidal about these questions, and he responded with, I would not get over a 1 out of 10 in any of those areas right now. Which is funny, but also true. I think for many of us, it's difficult to give ourselves very high scores, although some of us are very good at this. And that's always an inspiration. So, with that said, Vidal, I know there's a lot to unpack here, but in the spirit of allowing everybody to start putting all this into action, just curious for you, most critical takeaway from this. What's been your personal, personal experience around this, and, um, what do you commit to doing differently going forward?

Speaker B: Yeah, I'm glad you sent me your notes in real time as you were interviewing Neha, because it already led to some change. So some of the changes I'm going to talk about are, are already starting to be put into place. Um, look, this is so triggering. The first time he texted to me, just listening to it again, my heart beats a little bit faster. Not in a negative way, not necessarily in a stressful way way, but, uh, I love how optimistic she is in the way she frames the question. Neha says, if you're not giving yourself a 10 out of 10 in any area, anyone who is giving themselves 10 out of 10 in all these areas, major kudos to you and I respect you and I'm inspired by you massively. I would give myself a one or two out of ten. And here's what's strange. I mentioned this last week. I've mentioned it on the podcast before. I experienced what I consider, and it's personal to everyone. But what I consider, it's crossing that barrier into burnout, certainly being as far away from fully charged as I could imagine. And it's been a journey. It's been two and a half years, and now I feel mentally in a really good place. And that's great, right? Like, my mental energy is in a healthy place, but my physical energy, even before any of these concepts came up, I would have probably given my physical energy a very low score. But looking at these dimensions of food, energy levels, sleep and movement, I'd give myself a 1 out of 10. And look, here's the experience share for me. I know about myself that thinking about 10 out of 10 can lead to a paralysis. If I'm at one trying to get to 10, there's a lot of things that need to happen and it might feel very overwhelming. So how I've taken this advice and I've worked with my own coach on this. Actually, just two weeks ago, we put a plan into place in all of these dimensions. We said, I'm going to just, um. It's not for me, it's not about if I'm giving myself a one or maybe if I'm being nice. 2 out of 10 in any of these categories. It's not about going from 2 to 10, it's about going from 2 to 3 or 2 to 4, right? Like this. It's got to be incremental, it's got to be gradual because I'm going to feel better. It doesn't need to be 0 to 100. And the mistake I've really made in my life is I go super extreme. I just go from, try to go from 1 to 10 and then what happens? You actually burn out because it's very self fulfilling. So I'm trying to do this incrementally and I'll just share what I'm doing. Now on food I have not. My nutrition has not been particularly good because I seek soothing and comfort from food. That's my drug of choice. I don't really have many vices, but comfort food is the thing. I go to some food, I just said, okay, just going to tackle one meal, just breakfast. The other meals we'll get there. But let me just sort out breakfast first. I've been quite deliberate about that. It's been two weeks. I'm having porridge every morning, oats for the Americans who are listening. Oatmeal. I love it. I actually really enjoy it. It's easy to make, it's nice warm food, it's hearty, it keeps me full, it's not a big deal. And so okay, that's on food. This the thing I did on um, movement. I've not been moving lately and usually when I move it's like I'm exercising every day or I'm not exercising at all. Like I can't find the middle. So I said okay, I need a forcing mechanism. I need to trap myself a little bit. So here's the perfect trap. Literally across the street from where I'm sitting Now, it takes 30 seconds to walk there. There's a kickboxing gym. I know nothing about boxing, kickboxing. Haven't been particularly interested in it either. Though I love boxing movies, martial arts movies in general. I just, after that discussion with my coach, I emailed the place, started texting with a trainer and now actually exactly 12 hours from now I'll be uh, at my third ever kickboxing session by the way, um, on the first one I literally almost fainted. Don't underestimate martial arts folks. The energy requirements are quite high. Mistake I made, I hadn't had my hearty porridge breakfast before the kickboxing at 7am but it's, you know what, it's extremely fun. I have great respect for it because it's so hard and difficult and takes an enormous amount of commitment. But I'm so happy I, I did that. And that I actually credit this module. You texting me while you're doing the interview with Meha for. For this action. Um, so that was food. And then in terms of energy, just the practice we talked about, it was. Sunil Gupta talked about this concept of deliberate rest. So there's deliberate practices, but having deliberate rest and having that be spread out across the day. Something I learned is the power of grounding. How smells, scents can ground us from. Especially when we're in a moment of fear or stress or whatever. We need to just ground ourselves. So I'm taking on Sunil Gupta's 55.5model. This is the one I haven't really started yet, so I really need to start. I've done the other two. So I'm going to create eight opportunities for deliberate. Five minutes of deliberate rest in, um, moments where I would do the rest. I love drinking hot drinks throughout the day. So when the kettle is on and I'm making another tea, I'm just gonna smell something. Choosing cinnamon sticks. The smell, this, that sensory perception grounds you and it feels restful. It just brings the mind to like, to an awareness of where it is. It's mindfulness. It's a mindful practice. And it's very easy just sniffing something, it doesn't get much easier than that. I've also been told to not sniff the same thing every day because it reduces the sensory input. So to alternate, have a kind of roster of three or four things that you go to. So that's the third thing that I'm going to do. And then sleep. I track my sleep every night. I have an average of five hours of sleep a night. Nay has that seven to nine. So I'm clearly not at a 10 out of 10 there. Look, it depends on the body. And I, I really waking, um, up early and I go to bed pretty early as well. So it's. But it's the quality of sleep that matters. And for me right now, I think what's really important is if I get those three other things, I know I will sleep better. I know I will. If I'm moving more, if I'm eating better, if I'm having more mindful and restful days, I know I'm going to sleep better. So I'm hoping that sleep becomes a result of this practice. But that's what I'm doing. For what it's worth to people, I'd love to hear what other people are doing. I'D love to hear what you're going to do, Barry, but I mean this four minute clip is truly transformative and I think again, kudos to Anyone who's a 10 out of 10 on all these metrics. But this is just even physical energy. This is not even the full dimension of what NEHA offers. So I really, the call to action for me is just dive into this because it will change your life. This module is a must. Listen, must watch, must read, whatever, however you prefer, consuming this knowledge. But I'm really, I feel so privileged that we guys talk about it that you, that we made the connection with neha, uh, that we had this interview. It's really great.

Speaker C: All right, excellent. Vidal, thank you. Quickly, from my side, I think key takeaway is how critical a simple self diagnostic is and how simple it can truly be. You don't need like a rocket scientist to analyze every segment of your DNA and your behavior. With AI, you can just ask yourself these questions and then rate yourself and then hold something to figure out how you feel when you're answering these questions. It's absolutely genius. And of course we may not need a rocket scientist, but within US is 4 billion years of life evolving on this planet to help us navigate these things. So we know what's up, we know what we can do better. But just chatgpt, if you don't ask a question, you don't get the answer. So prompting ourselves is key. And my key takeaway was just how ridiculously important it is to have self diagnostic questions for myself and for others. Shared experience. Um, for a period of about almost two months, I had been working really hard, achieving solid success, but feeling not so great just mentally and physically. I was just like, it really felt like I was trying to keep my head above water. I was very proud of what I'm doing, but just, I just wasn't doing so good. And then quite literally last Sunday, okay, uh, a week ago, I did my favorite activity, which is get on my road bike and get onto the west side highway and go all the way to the top of Manhattan and come back. It's two hours riding the bike. I did that and I loved it. I felt tremendous joy at the physical exercise that was involved. I actually genuinely enjoyed it by the water, seeing the Hudson, it was beautiful. Then I came home and because I was feeling quite fit after that and having burned I think 1100 calories, I had this delicious harvest bowl that was very tasty and we did a mini like Halloween type celebration at home, like watching like nice movies. And all that and just went to bed, got a lot of sleep. And then the next morning, instead of rushing into work or checking my phone, I actually went for a jog. And I just started my day really healthily on Monday. The Monday was probably one of the most productive, groundbreaking days of my entire career. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday. Of course I was getting more and more tired through the week, but it was like everything was going my way. I was feeling way better than I had in weeks. And it was this chain reaction that started on Sunday, but it just fed on itself and became a virtuous cycle rather than a vicious one. Now, as the week went on, my reserves were definitely depleting because after the 1,000,000th Zoom call and, um, there were events every evening and I was just sleeping a little less every evening until I got to the Friday. And then I slept super well and had a great rest on Saturday. So the experience share here, which I just did, was, yeah, uh, it's only one week, right? If I could do that my whole life, can you imagine how unstoppable I would be? And uh, maybe that's hard to maintain, but still, it was just such an easy reminder. It cost me nothing to go for that bike ride. And no matter how busy I am in life, if I can't do at least once a week a two hour bike ride, that's ridiculous. Like, if especially I'm running my own company, like why? And it's so good for the company basically got more out of me this week than it had in months. And all it took was for me to go on a bike ride on a Sunday. And then obviously since then, my eating hasn't been perfect, but it's been biased towards the healthier direction and, and so forth. So my commitment to change is to take this physical part much more seriously going forward instead of making crazy commitments. Like you were saying with Alice every day, what's one thing I can do that would help my sleep, my nutrition, my movement. What's a little tiny little thing? Because going a whole day with like terrible sleep and bad food and no movement and um, nothing that gives me energy. Yeah. Then I'm sabotaging not just myself, I'm feeling crappy myself, but I'm sabotaging everything for everyone that I'm meeting. Even if I come across to them, not so bad. But I know, uh, I could have been better for them. Call to actions, to the audience, I think same. I just want to underline what you said with don't worry about becoming a 10 out of 10, just get one point higher. What would that take? And how can you make that a ritual? How can you also do something with your significant other or your friends or your colleagues that just basically makes it a little bit more likely that everybody can get a point higher in one of these physical dimensions. We're now coming to the end of this podcast. What I want to just quickly summarize here. One, Vidal, uh, is there any final call to action? You have to the audience now that, uh, we've come to the end and I'll wrap us up from there.

Speaker B: Wow, we covered a lot of material here. Final call to action. Be optimistic about the world, about yourself, have a bias to the positive, visualize and be grateful for the outcomes that you want. That's the theme. I think it's always the theme. But the theme that cuts across the X factor of this episode on all these modules is about having a bias towards optimism and believing in, in the, in the right and good outcomes and desired outcomes, those will serve you well and self diagnose and ask the questions of what the blockers, um, that prevent that from happening.

Speaker C: All right, brilliantly put on. Just to summarize, I think to me the final reflection call to actions like how interconnected these things are. If we're taking bigger bets, we have more motivation, we're more excited, and so is everybody around us. And the stakes are higher to get even little micro things right within our own cells and within our organizations, uh, the better we are at telling our story and the X factor and the Y factor, uh, the better. Also, other people can help us and work with us and partner with us. The better we create belonging and unity within our organizations. Obviously we can do these things better. The better we are at visualizing a positive, uh, future. I have gratitude for that. The better we're going to do and we're taking care of ourselves physically. All of this becomes easier as well. So if you want to dive deeper into any of these, we have full 60 minute interviews with each of these individuals that provide 10 times, uh, as many insights as what we were able to touch on today. And we do this every week with five new people. So every day you can just hear, just like the insights we shared. You can hear one of those in five minutes or less or read those in writing. And as Ivy's X factor, not only can you read them and then be better yourself, but you can actually share them with others and have a kind of discussion like Vidal and I did today on, um, work resonates most with you. On this? What is something you've lived through that's similar to this, and what are you going to do differently going into the future? Doing that enables you to turn the learning into deep connection and lasting behavior change. Hopefully, we, with that in mind, use the Ivy app. So you get all this every day to your inbox and to the app itself. And, um, then if you want to bring this kind of work to your organization, we have incredible solutions to help you create tailored journeys for your organization so that everyone individually, but then all of you collectively, can overcome the critical blockers holding you back by combining these life changing insights from our thought leaders with deep peer to peer connection and ways to turn that into behavior change specifically to help you grow your business, help your team elevate their performance, and also enjoy the journey yourself personally, a lot more. I really greatly enjoyed this. Vidal. Huge thank you to you for all the setup and thought partnership. Huge thanks to all of our thought leaders. And most importantly, big thank you to all of our audience who are clearly committed not just to be successful for its own sake, for themselves, but clearly to do it in a way that makes the world a better place. We're inspired by you and we're grateful to you and we're excited to hear from you on how we can do better. So thank you for everything and thank you, Vidal.

Speaker B: Thank you, Barry. This was fun. Um, I'll see you next week. Bye.

Speaker C: See you next week. Bye, everybody.