The Human Resource · 2026-06-30 · 17 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
47 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
Leah Stiegler returns to discuss the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act (PWFA), a critical but often misunderstood federal law that took effect in June 2023 requiring employers to provide reasonable accommodations to pregnant workers - a protection Congress only formally mandated at the end of 2022. Unlike the older Pregnancy Discrimination Act that merely prohibited discrimination, the PWFA operates similarly to the ADA, requiring employers to engage in an interactive process to identify accommodations for conditions like morning sickness, fatigue, frequent bathroom breaks, light duty work, and adjusted schedules. As an employment lawyer defending employers, Stiegler emphasizes that pregnant workers are among the most legally protected in the workplace, creating significant liability exposure if supervisors - who make 90% of HR decisions - mishandle accommodations. The episode covers critical practical guidance: employers cannot require medical certification to prove pregnancy, cannot force employees to obtain doctor's notes for standard pregnancy-related needs, and cannot quickly resort to unpaid leave as an accommodation. Stiegler illustrates edge cases like a pregnant police officer's request to avoid carrying a firearm, highlighting when documentation might be appropriate. Supervisors and HR leaders need thorough PWFA training, as the temporary nature of pregnancy (typically nine months) makes most accommodations reasonable and far less burdensome than hiring and training replacements.
The PWFA was passed at the end of 2022 and went into effect in June 2023. Unlike the older Pregnancy Discrimination Act which only prohibited discrimination, the PWFA affirmatively requires employers to provide reasonable accommodations to pregnant workers through an interactive process similar to the ADA, including accommodations for morning sickness, break time, light duty, and post-birth childbirth-related conditions.
No. Under the PWFA, employers cannot force an employee to prove they are pregnant through doctor's notes, pregnancy tests, or other evidence. Employers must take the woman's word that she is pregnant and avoid requesting documentation for standard pregnancy-related needs like extra breaks, bathroom breaks, or light duty work.
Common accommodations include extra breaks or more frequent bathroom breaks, additional water breaks, light duty work, modified schedules or work-from-home arrangements for morning sickness, and time off for prenatal appointments. The law emphasizes that most accommodations are reasonable because pregnancy is temporary - typically lasting nine months.
Employers should not request documentation for standard pregnancy-related needs, but may request medical certification for unusual or unique accommodation requests that go beyond typical pregnancy symptoms. When in doubt, employment lawyers should be consulted to determine if a specific accommodation request warrants medical documentation.
Under PWFA, it is much harder for an employer to claim undue hardship compared to the ADA, because pregnancy is temporary. The law assumes that accommodations like reassigning tasks, providing flexible schedules, or offering light duty for a few months is not burdensome, since hiring and training a replacement would take longer than the pregnancy lasts.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode delivers a handful of genuinely useful compliance points - PWFA's June 2023 effective date, the prohibition on requiring pregnancy documentation for common symptoms, and the 'last resort' standard for unpaid leave - but a 17-minute runtime is padded with personal anecdotes (Leah's pregnant wife, Pandy's 45-year career stories) and conversational filler that dilutes density considerably.
under the Pregnant Workers Fairness act, the law basically says you can't force an employee to go prove, get evidence proving that they're pregnant
as a last resort, an employer can have that person go on unpaid leave as a reasonable accommodation. But it has to be the last resort
This is squarely a compliance overview of existing law with little contrarian or first-principles framing; the most interesting structural insight - that pregnancy's temporary nature makes the undue-hardship bar harder for employers to clear - is a useful practical angle but not a novel argument, and the rest recaps well-known ADA-parallel logic.
pregnancy is temporary, Pandy. This is what I've heard. I've heard it's temporary. It's up to nine months
historically we had the pregnant pregnancy non discrimination law and all that said was employers can't discriminate against pregnant workers
Leah Stiegler is a practicing management-side employment lawyer who actually litigates these cases, giving her genuine practitioner credibility; she cites real client situations and courtroom dynamics rather than theory, though she is a regional practitioner rather than a widely published authority in the space.
as a management side employment lawyer, you know, we deal with lots of litigation defending employers who are sued by employees and former employees
I had a situation representing a law enforcement agency where they had a female police officer who was pregnant
The episode includes concrete anecdotes - the client who demanded a pregnancy test, the patrol officer seeking accommodation to not carry a firearm, and the specific June 2023 effective date - but lacks any case citations, dollar figures, verdict amounts, or statistical data that would give the guidance real evidentiary weight.
the law was, it was, it was passed in the, at the end of 2022, went into effect in June of 2023
she wanted an accommodation to not have to carry her gun or, or bullets because of the fear of lead being near the fetus
The host asks a few genuinely useful prompting questions (e.g., 'when can they ask for medical certification?') and occasionally pushes for practical framing, but the conversation is largely a friendly, loosely structured chat with no real pushback on claims, tangential personal stories that eat runtime, and no follow-up probing on edge cases the guest raises.
well, and explain to the audience when can they ask for medical certification? Because there's a window on that as well
I. I mean, is there a better way of saying it?
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Leah Stiegler returns to discuss the nuisances of the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act (PWFA) - what you can do and what your can never do. Watch or listen as she reviews what every company should be training their management teams about PWFA.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: Sam? Mhm.
Speaker B: Well, she's back. I told you she would be, though. So when I say Leah Stiegler's coming back, she's coming back. And for those of you who weren't here last week, please go listen to her podcast. We were talking about leave of absence, medical leave of absence, and how we sometimes interfere with that time that people take off. But um, today we're going to talk about the Pregnant Workers Fairness Act. And I always have to say that slowly because Leah, you know, it's just acronyms everywhere.
Speaker A: Well, at least you're not turning it. Like I've heard people say FEMLA for Family Medical Leave act. And so like this would be puffa, and I don't like that.
Speaker B: No, no, but it's an important topic because as we talked about last week, the Family Medical Leave act has very strict guidance on how we approach and what kind of paperwork we get and all that sort of thing. But wait, the pregnant worker is the most protected person in the workplace and the PWFA is a, uh, program alto itself. You really can't compare it to ADA or fmla.
Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, as a management side employment lawyer, you know, we deal with lots of litigation defending employers who are sued by employees and former employees. And I will tell you the worst type of case is when I have a pregnant worker on the other side of the aisle because they often get a lot of sympathy from a jury. And I mean, you're right, there's everything from state law protections to the Pregnant Workers Fairness act to medical, um, family medical leave, and even the ADA sometimes too, if they have medical issues that are comorbid, like postpartum depression or something where, so all these laws come into play. It's just a tripwire of situations that uh, that employers need to be mindful of.
Speaker B: Well, and, and PWFA was established under the Biden administration and has its own set of rules that I don't believe we're, we're thoroughly training our supervisors on. And as many times as you and I have said, the boots on the ground are making 90% of the HR decisions. It's uh, not HR because it, it's going through that team lead, it's going through that supervisor first. And the case that you and I referenced in the pre show meeting, that was a supervisor who made some really bad mistakes for whatever reason involving a pregnant worker. So let's take a moment and just help the audience regroup on exactly what they need to be thinking about. Sure.
Speaker A: Well, let me first say this. You are exactly Right. That the law was, it was, it was passed in the, at the end of 2022, went into effect in June of 2023. Um, which is kind of sad. Let me tell you this, that, that Congress only first recognized that women get pregnant and need accommodations. It took them until 2023. So it is one of our, it was, it was long, long time coming. Um, historically we had the pregnant pregnancy non discrimination law and all that said was employers can't discriminate against pregnant workers. But the, the way the courts worked around it to require employers to consider accommodations, even though that law didn't even mention accommodations, is to say that, hey, if you accommodate a disabled worker or maybe a worker on workers comp, uh, with you, uh, accommodate them with light duty, then if you don't accommodate a pregnant woman who needs light duty, for instance, then you are discriminating against her. And so we had this work around created by the courts. So it wasn't until 2023 where federally Congress said, wait a minute, no, we actually are going to require that employers accommodate or at least engage in an interactive process similar to that under the Americans with Disabilities act to try to find reasonable accommodations for pregnant workers and that it even applies post birth right childbirth related medical conditions that may need to be accommodated as well.
Speaker B: Well, and I think that's the, the confusion. Um, and I'm not trying to label, but it tends to be the males who are listening to this information and don't quite understand what pregnancy is all about. And PWFA focuses very, very tightly on the 40 weeks of gestation. Sure. Yeah.
Speaker A: No, you're exactly right. I mean, one thing that's interesting is, you know, under uh, the Americans with Disabilities act, if an employee says, hey, I, I need extra breaks, let's say they work on a manufacturing floor. I need extra breaks to break time during the day due to my medical issue. Well, it's very common to say, okay, well here, take this ADA paperwork, go to your doctor and get this filled out, or have a doctor's note that says you need these extra breaks because we only provide two 15 minute breaks in the day. So this would be an exception to our policy. Well, under the Pregnant Workers Fairness act, the law basically says you can't force an employee to go prove, get evidence proving that they're pregnant. Okay, we, so we do take the woman's word for it in this sense. Um, but also you, you really can't require documentation for all these just very basic things that we as a society know are associated with pregnancy, like the need for extra breaks or more frequent bathroom breaks, um, more water breaks, uh, light duty, morning sickness. So maybe adjusted schedules or work from home to deal with stuff like that.
Speaker B: And, you know, you hear the exact same thing that I do. Well, I know that she's just exaggerating or she, you know, she's just faking it, or I just think she's milking this. I. I mean, I have heard every wine that could possibly be associated with this, and my response is, normally, not much you can do about it.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: I. Aliyah, have I missed. I mean, is there a better way of saying it?
Speaker A: No. Um, let me tell you this, Pandy. My wife is currently pregnant and she's four weeks pregnant. And I will tell you that I am experiencing all the pregnanc symptoms.
Speaker B: Not.
Speaker A: Not I am actually having the symptoms, but I am the bystander supervisor. She wouldn't let me call myself a supervisor, but I am the bystander co worker watching her have these symptoms of extreme fatigue and, you know, just nausea. All the, all the things that they talk about. And I'd like to tell you this is a scam. She just, she's just getting out of having to take the trash out or something. But we don't. You might be able to, you might be able to have those conversations in your home life, right? Yes, yes, but with your spouse, but not, not in the workplace. If a pregnant worker says, hey, I can't lift more than 10 pounds, or I can't take the trash out for, you know, at the restaurant, then you know what, you take their word for it and you say, no worries, we're going to accommodate this. Because the other thing about pregnancy, where the law, pregnancy. It's much harder under the Pregnant Workers Fairness act for an employer to say, you know what, this accommodation is not reasonable versus under the Americans with Disabilities act is because pregnancy is temporary, Pandy. This is what I've heard. I've heard it's temporary. It's up to nine months. You know, so you, uh. And basically the laws is like, look, I mean, if you have to have another employee take the trash out, or you have to give this person a more flexible schedule for three or four months during the last few months of their pregnancy, or give them light duty, that's not going to be burdensome. But if you wanted to just jump, jump the gun and terminate them, by the time you draft a job description, post the job interview, people make an offer, bring that person on and train them, your, uh, your pregnant worker would be back ready to come Back at full speed.
Speaker B: Well, last week we were, we were talking about a CEO that went out on leave. So going. Getting back to your undue hardship, there really isn't a position where you can't get by or make accommodations if it's a pregnancy. Now, God forbid there be any major medical concerns after the birth, but you'll deal with those then as of right now, until the baby's born and you're dealing with PWFA and the guidance during gestation. Um, and you and I were, we were kind of chuckling because we were looking up there's 100 symptoms that can occur, uh, uh, of conditions under pregnancy. No one's going to know all those.
Speaker A: Right. And every. People might have medical conditions, preexisting medical conditions, for instance, or genetic issues. Maybe there's trouble with the birth. Right. So every, every situation is going to be a case by case basis. It's. It. I, I don't know if you've had to deal with this Pandy, but you might have a supervisor who's like, oh, come on. My, my wife or I myself had, I myself had three children and I, I just, you know, uh, sucked it up and threw up in the trash can in my office and kept going, going through work. Okay, well that's good on you. That, that, that you're a superhero. But yeah, this worker may be experiencing something different or it's affecting her body differently. And so you're going to have to accommodate those that need for breaks or something. And you know, if, if someone's asking for an accommodation that would be deemed unreasonable, that we couldn't just. We basically we'd be putting them in a chair all day and paying them to do nothing. As a last resort, an employer can have that person go on unpaid leave as a reasonable accommodation. But it has to be the last resort. We can't. You can't jump the gun and find out someone's pregnant and needs light duty and then all of a sudden you say, okay, you're out on, on leave, you know.
Speaker B: Well, and explain to the audience when can they ask for medical certification? Because there's a window on that as well.
Speaker A: Yeah, so, exactly. So you. One, you can't say, give, go, give me a doctor's note that proves you're pregnant. Um, or pee on this pee test, which I have had a client. They thought.
Speaker B: No, no, no, no.
Speaker A: Yes. You know, I thought it was creative. Pandy. They thought the employee was lying to get out of like, because she, she had already had a history of tardiness and she was starting to become even more tardy. And so they were ready to terminate her. And the employee said, oh, I'm actually pregnant. I'm dealing with morning sickness now. Her tardiness had gone on for two years now, so. But they hadn't really addressed it very well. And so they were like, well, we don't believe she's pregnant. She's just. She's just asked Chachi BT and chat GPT told her this is how she can, you know, not get fired. So we want her to pee on a pregnancy, uh, test. And I said, absolutely not. Creative.
Speaker B: But no, I. Oh, go ahead.
Speaker A: No, say yeah. So you can't, you can't force someone to prove that, that they are pregnant. And I don't assume someone's pregnant either. That's also an awkward conversation. Let them come to you.
Speaker B: You know, uh, I've been doing this for over 40 years. Uh, 45 actually. And only one case was a false pregnancy where she told them that she was pregnant. And we kept waiting and kept waiting and kept waiting and kept waiting and, yeah, it never happened.
Speaker A: Did she claim that maybe she had a miscarriage or.
Speaker B: Um, I forget the story, but she wasn't out of work. She, I mean, there was just no physical signs that there was duress or problems or anything. Um, and. And then I had another ugly story where, you know, individual, uh, said that her. The company was retaliating against her and therefore she lost her baby because of all the stress from work and the conditions of work and such. And that was fun to deal with. But, uh, again, out of 45 years.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's.
Speaker B: That's means that likelihood. If she says she's pregnant, she's pregnant.
Speaker A: Yep. Just. Exactly. And so, so where you can ask for documentation. So I would say don't ask for documentation related to the things that we all know as a reasonable person are associated with pregnancy. Morning sickness, break time, light duty, stuff like that. Right. Appointments that people may need to. To leave work for. Um, if it's something absolutely unique that, I mean, this is why you need to be able to call someone like you pandy, or me as an employment lawyer to do a gut on. Hey, is this something I can ask for medical, um, documentation for? I had a situation representing a law enforcement agency where they had a female police officer who was pregnant and she was a patrol officer. So she's out in the car doing traffic patrol, night loops, things like that. You, you know, that's a dangerous situation. You have to have your weapons, your taser cuffs, all of that. And what she wanted was not an accommodation necessarily to not wear the. I thought it was going to be the safety vest because that can be extremely heavy. Right. And at some point your bump is enough, pregnancy bump is enough that you can't actually wear that. And so you do generally go on light duty in law enforcement, but which may be desk. Desk work or administrative work for the last few months of your pregnancy. But this was early on in her pregnancy. She wanted, she wanted to still be a patrol officer, but she, and she refused to do administrative work, but she wanted to. An accommodation to not have to carry her gun or, or bullets because of the fear of lead being near the fetus. And I was like, okay, this, I could see the, the, the, the, the nexus here, like, I get it, but I don't think we necessarily, this might one be unreasonable, uh, to accommodate, to have a patrol officer out there without a weapon. I don't know how much you're going to do with, you know, a taser. And I don't know if we have time to train her in bow and arrow and archery. So, uh, this is one we're gonna have to maybe push back on and offer other accommodations or see if she can get a doctor's note that certifies that there's some sort of maybe protective gear that we can get her between, that she can wear between her gun and her belly, for instance, or her over uterus.
Speaker B: So, yeah, yeah, I, I'm just sitting here going, and would that even be arbitrary if there was a grievance? I don't even, I don't even know. That would be a stretch. Um, and I've heard individuals being fearful of being around the computer too much. I mean, I get that. But again, reasonable, reasonable. And again, with a hundred different symptoms, you're going to, at some point, if you stay in this career for very long, you're going to have to partner with someone and just say, hey, what do you think? Or what have you heard? Or what, what do you know about this? Um, how limited is this? I mean, carpal tunnel, um, back pain. To your point, there are some things that we don't see with every single person. Everybody is going to be different, so you can't necessarily compare. But PWFA is not going away. It's not. And I think the important lesson in this is that there is a lot to learn and there is a lot that we should be talking to our supervisors about and making sure that they are comfortable just kind of backing away and saying, you know, let me check on it for you. Let me. Let me make sure that's, you know, we. What we can do for you. Yep.
Speaker A: Tread carefully is my advice. So. Thanks for having me, pandy Leah.
Speaker B: Uh, you're always welcome. You're you. I. Hey, next time though, let's not wait till you've got baby pictures, okay? Yeah, let's. So let's get you on here sooner. Oh, uh, and you audience, please keep sending in your questions, send in whatever you think we is important should be talking about. So thanks again for watching. You've been watching the Human Resource,
Speaker A: Sam?
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