All Thrust, No Vector | Why Working Hard Isn't the Same as Moving Forward | Lt. Col. Waldo Waldman

Speaker A: Your fears never go away. They're subjugated to your courage, to your joy, to how you live. And your job in life is to do the things to drown out that fear and negativity.

Speaker B: Um, welcome to the Happy Engineer Podcast, the place where we help engineers to build your career, balance your life and be happy. My name is Zach White, a former engineer, now turned CEO, lifestyle engineering coach, and your host. I believe that success without fulfillment is failure. Join me each week as we bring you an inspiring leader or message to help you enjoy both. Thanks for investing time with me today. Now let's do this. All thrust and no vector. Does that describe your attempts at, ah, reaching the next level in your career? Has the fuel of your passion burned out and it feels like you have lost the battle, let alone the war. Maybe you feel like a fighter pilot who is afraid of heights and claustrophobic. Yikes.

Speaker C: Hey.

Speaker B: Well, here's a quick note about me I love fighter jets. My stepdad is a retired F, uh, 14 pilot and I could watch the movie Top Gun anytime. So imagine how excited I was to bring a former F16 fighter pilot who also happens to be in the National Speakers association hall of Fame to share his stories of courage and resilience. This conversation was breathtaking. Get ready to meet Lieutenant Colonel Retired Waldo Waldman, known as the Wingman. In addition to being a Hall uh, of Fame leadership speaker, he is a sought after executive coach worldwide and the author of New York Times and Wall Street Journal best selling book Never Fly Solo. This man has commanded the skies and the biggest stages on the planet. As a combat decorated F16 fighter pilot, Waldo shares gripping stories and strategies on overcoming obstacles, performing under pressure, and how to create a resilient, courageous, one team, one mission culture of collaboration and trust. He personally broke through a lifelong fear of heights and overcame claustrophobia as a fighter pilot. And he is going to show you how to break through any barrier you face. Fear is going to be afraid of you. Here we go. If you're an engineering leader who's ever looked at someone with a bigger job and a bigger paycheck than yours and thought, seriously, if they can do it, I can do it. Let's not name names. But I get it. That's why we created Career Clarity calls for one simple reason. A lot of engineers, probably including you, just want a deeper sense of clarity on the barriers holding you back that you need to overcome in order to accelerate your career and achieve your dreams. These short 15 minute calls give you a chance to work with one of our coaches without any commitment or pressure to get out your credit card. Scheduling is easy. Just go to careerclaritycall.com and a number of people who do these calls ask if they can continue with a deep dive coaching session, which is usually 500 bucks. It's 75 minutes and completely life changing. So I've decided to carve out a number of these calls for free, specifically to help our podcast listeners who know you want to reach the next level. Let's jump on the phone and get you the help and clarity you need. Again, that link is in the show notes or just memorize it. CareerClarityCall.com Click the big orange button, select a time, and let's build your career.

Speaker C: Waldo, thanks again for making time to be with the happy engineers and myself today. It's an absolute pleasure to have you, former lieutenant colonel, uh, Air Force here, F16 fighter pilot. Well, to tell us, just in brief, a little bit about that background and your history to set the stage for where we may go in this conversation.

Speaker A: Great to be here with you, Zach. Look, uh, I'm a past fighter pilot, a father of an 11 year old, happily, uh, married, dodging marriage missiles occasionally, like most of us, uh, life is good for me, but, uh, I'd like to think of myself as an overachiever in some way. Like most of your listeners, I love challenge and, and excitement and change. And so for me, the conduit to that, a great conduit, was to be in the military and to be a pilot and above all, to be a fighter pilot because that's the pointing edge of the spear. So I decided to become a fighter pilot, was honored to work with and learn from amazing men and women, 65 combat missions over the years in Kosovo and Serbia and Iraq. And then weaned my way from that, joined the reserve, went to business school, got into sales with a technology company, and then emerges and acquisitions and I've been speaking and doing business coaching, uh, for the last 19 years. So, uh, that's kind of a broad brushstroke, but for me, it's always doing something that's challenging and exciting.

Speaker C: That's tremendous. And Waldo, thank you for your service. Truly appreciate that. You just made a comment that triggered something for me. This is totally unexpected to go here, but you mentioned the tip of the spear, and I wear this little arrowhead every day. And people who follow me know about the fact that the symbol in my life is that idea of wanting to be the tip of the spear in every area that I perform and Am active in the world. And tell me for you, where did that become a focus? Or how does that come to life for you, that concept?

Speaker A: I like competition. Call it a dysfunction, perhaps, maybe not getting enough love as a child, having an identical twin brother beating the heck out of each other growing up. So I like the thrill of winning. I like the juice, the flavor, the feeling of knowing that not only did I overcome the competition, but I overcame myself. And we'll talk a little bit about this and how it shows up in our lives. But for me, as a 53 year old guy, um, in business for a while, I like to win. However, sometimes, as I'm learning, winning may mean losing the battle to win the war. Winning may be being okay with being in a support role, doing your job, saluting smartly, being that wingman to the flight lead and saying, I'm okay with that because I have a job to do, I have a responsibility, and I'm going to do it to the best of my absolute ability. You've got engineers, top guns, high type A individuals. Sometimes the best thing you could do, and many times you do in your world, is to be that support asset. You may not be tip of the spear in sales or business development, or have a seat at the table all the time, but to be honorable in life, to feel good about who you are, sometimes it takes more courage to humble yourself, sublimate yourself to a greater cause and say, you know what, I'm supporting and I'm going to kick some ass in this support role and I'm going to do my job. And when I'm asked to lead and be the pointing edge of the spear, I'll do that as well. But there's different ways that we can lead with the context of getting the mission done. And you may not always need to be out front.

Speaker C: I love that I want to dig into so much of what you just said. But before I do, can you take us back to the origin point where Waldo fell in love with the idea of being a pilot? Uh, I pictured myself as a little kid. I had all the fighter jet models and I'd run around the house making noise, pretending to be one, and I didn't end up one and you did. So where did that part of you get its start, Waldo? When did you know this is what I'm going to do with my life?

Speaker A: So my dad was a mechanic at Kennedy Airport in New York city, uh, for 35, 40 years. Was a crew chief in the Navy as well. I remember When I was 10 or 11 years old, my dad took me and my identical twin brother Dave to the airport for a little tour to show what he did. And he popped us into the cockpit. I saw the machine, actually. I think I have a picture here. I'll show you. Popped us into the cockpit, actually, this is a, uh, F16, but a little different than a 747. But essentially, I started to play with the switches and said, dad, what's this place for? And he said, it's the cockpit. It's where the pilot flies the plane. And I knew then that I didn't want to fix the planes like my dad. I wanted to fly him. And so I remember he said, hey, that's a great idea, Rob, but it may not be the best career choice because you're massively afraid of heights. And I told him I'd find a way. And so my passion was greater than my fear. I just got that glimpse, the smell of jet fuel, looking at the engines and the cockpit. And then when I got older in high school, my guidance counselor introduced me to the Air Force Academy. He knew I was basically an overachiever and wanted to show me, hey, here's something that you could do to be with great men and women, top performing leaders, and if you want to fly, great place to go as well. So basically, that's kind of the impetus to it. But I remember as a kid playing soccer, looking at the planes, calling them out, that's a 747, that's a DC10, that's a Lockheed 1011. And everybody's like, you're manic about planes,

Speaker C: but, yeah, they're supposed to be looking at the grass. Stop looking in the air, playing soccer.

Speaker A: Maybe I was on the sidelines too much more than I would have liked, who knows?

Speaker C: But that's, uh, amazing.

Speaker A: So that's basically what it was. And I was just fascinated with it and became passionate about it. And that passion overcame my fear. And that's really what courage is. It's stepping outside of your comfort zone and saying, hey, I may be afraid of heights. And I, uh, also became claustrophobic, which is another part of the story that we can share. But when you look at courageous leadership, which is something that you talk about, it's the ability to not be fearless, which a lot of speakers and consultants talk about. I just think that's not a context of humanity that's common or normal. The fear, the bubbling up of anxiety, the stress, some of the pain that goes through. The preparation needed to step out of your comfort zone requires courage and, uh, Flying through that, Take taking some risks, stepping out of your comfort zones, jumping off of 33ft high diving boards, which I needed to do to graduate the academy, and facing my fear of heights are things that we need to do in our personal lives. So the question, I guess the audience needs to hear is, what is that discomfort, that 33ft high diving board, that panic attack, that fear that's kind of latent inside of you or very present every day that you need to break free of in order to accomplish your goals, live your dreams, get the promotion, et cetera.

Speaker C: So, Aldo, this is super interesting. And most people that I meet assume that, hey, you're a special breed. If you become a fighter pilot, you must have loved heights and you must be really good in small spaces. And this all came naturally to you. And I'm here to say, like, total opposite. Tell us about the journey through that fear. How does somebody put that into their own journey? What is that all about?

Speaker A: The number one thing you have to think about is what is on the opposite side of that fear. You need to know the meaning to your mission. I call it the why. Before you fly, what is it that you're going for? That if, when you strap it to your plane, your cockpit of life, and face the fears, the missiles, the turbulence, the headwinds, et cetera, that you're willing to grind through that and face that because there's a gift, a benefit, a goal achieved on the other side that's going to fulfill you very deeply, very intrinsically. And many of us fly by the seat of our pants or we wing it, or we just don't have this vector, this true north of what we're doing every day. And this, in my opinion, is the gift of having a long term compelling goal that stretches you. This is the gift for me as a father, uh, of an 11 year old that drives me. A lot of what I do and what I've done is for the gift and the example I could set to my son and to the people that I mentor formally and informally. And so for me, it's always setting the example. Okay, number one, so what is it that. The meaning. And you have to think about it as somebody listening to this or in life say, what is it the heck that I'm doing? Why do I really want to do this? Is it my ego? Uh, it can only last so long. Is there something outside of yourself, something that you know that's going to drive you? That's the big thing. You need that true north, right? Any thoughts on that?

Speaker C: Zach? Uh, I love this concept.

Speaker B: And one thing I hear from people

Speaker C: I speak to is a bit of, maybe I'll call it a wavering faith about what's on the other side of fear is worth it.

Speaker B: Like, I know what I hope it

Speaker C: is that I'm going towards, but between me and that thing is fear. And I don't actually know if I'm going to get it on the other side. So this idea of is my true north is my vision that I'm aiming towards. Will it actually happen if I face all these obstacles? And sometimes there's a wavering faith that actually then takes that fuel out of there. They don't have it right. They don't want to do those hard things. And I'm curious for you, how do you build that deep sense of faith and confidence or conviction that it's worth it, that going across, pushing through this will actually take me where I want to go?

Speaker A: Well, you need an example in some way in your life of somebody who's achieved or have a taste of what it's like to achieve. Some people have dreams, but they may be somebody else's dream or they don't really know what it's like. For me, I didn't really know I had a dream to fly fighters or planes until my dad sat me in the cockpit when I recruited for the Air Force Academy. Some of these kids said, you wanted to be in the military. They wanted to fly. And I'm like, well, have you ever sat in a plane? Have you ever talked to a pilot? What did you do? And they had this false sense of a dream that may not even be their own or just some fantasy. So you need to put some bricks and mortar to that dream, whatever it is, to see an example of that success. If you want to be a black belt like Bruce Lee. Right. I'm a big fan of Bruce Lee, you know, such an amazing legend, even after decades of being gone. Like, you witness that if somebody sees Chuck Yeager or watches the Blue Angels or Thunderbirds fly, they see, uh, that's what I want to do. And I, I, I, I talked to other pilots and I studied aviation and, and learned about what peak performance was. So it's having an example, not just coming up with some false imaginary goal, but then seeking others who have been there and then looking for mentorship and guidance and helping you to prepare to get in that. The sense of competence for me was knowing that I was going to do the work. That being a fighter pilot, getting accepted to the Air Force Academy, being the Best in class required me to do all the steps before that. Do well in school, be great at sports, stay out of trouble, volunteer for leadership positions. It honed my character and it caused some scars and calluses. But I'm confident as a man, as a human being, as a father, as a husband, because I do the work, right? I'm doing the work. And so any of you out there who are looking for this goal and this dream, and you're looking to build up that confidence, you'd have to say, well, I'm reading the books, I'm attending the seminars, I'm listening to the podcasts. I'm humbling myself, asking for help in areas that are weak in my life, and then saying, who do I need to contact, what vector correction do I need to take, and who could be an example to me, a mentor, a coach to guide me on that path rather than just flying along the world a victim of change and circumstance. And as soon as the headwinds come, I'm just not going to do it. The fear is going to overwhelm me. So those are some things I think you need to do.

Speaker C: This idea of the training, doing the work, you're putting in the reps, I'm curious for you, how do you discern the difference? If somebody is in that process, they're doing the work, they're on their way toward their North Star, toward their vision, versus someone who's doing work, but they're actually just hiding in a comfort zone, kind of doing the same thing over and over. Maybe they're over consume. They listen to podcasts all the time. Uh, but that's all they do is listen, and they're not actually moving towards the goal. What would you say or how would you help someone to discern which one of those two camps they might be in, just staying busy versus your training towards the goal?

Speaker A: So you got to assess the amount of pain and struggle that you go through your day. If I'm talking to somebody that's learning or failing, I don't think you fail. You're either winning or learning, and all those things are helping you to grow. Show me what you're doing during your day. Tell me what you're doing differently. Show me where you sweat, sacrifice, felt a little pain and discomfort. When you show me that, then I'll say, okay, you're on a trajectory for growth and success. If you're comfortable doing what you're doing. We've all heard this before, by the way. If you're comfortable doing what you're doing, Then you may just be philosophizing. And what I call all thrust and no vector, for the engineers are like that. All thrust and no vector. You need direction. You need movement into a certain area. So this degree of pain that you're willing to withstand, interrupting your standard protocols, that'll lead to growth. And you could look at this in your health and fitness. And you're working out. I had this little smoothie today. I'm weaning myself from sugar. Doing a little diet here to kind of clean up some of the residual, uh, uh, Covid. Covid calories, whatever. I'm in pretty good shape, but I'm like, okay, got to get a little uncomfortable. I was in the gym yesterday. I went out of my way to make sure that, like, you have to look at some of the inconveniences in your life that will force you to go through little pains, trials, tribulations, and grow. So that's really, really key. And if you're just kind of looking for excuses, yeah, you're probably not going to be, uh, evolving to where that's

Speaker C: a really simple but powerful message. And although maybe this is my perception, I'm curious if it's yours, but I feel like that's a countercultural thing to assess as a attribute of. Are you moving towards success? We seem to want more vacations, more mai tais on the beach, more ease in our life as the goal. And rather than to say, you know what? Really, if you're not experiencing some trial, some tribulation, some sweat, some challenge, facing fear, you got to question, are you all thrust, no vector?

Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah.

Speaker C: Would you agree? I mean, is that. It feels countercultural to me.

Speaker A: Uh, it is, it is. But here's another thing. And there's another point that forces me to step out of my comfort zone and help me accomplish my missions in fear. I talked about having that compelling goal, that vision of what you want to become, but also the feeling that you get when you're done going through the trial, when you're done lifting the weight, when you're done, uh, going through the diet and you look at your body and you're like, I lost the six pounds and my body fat's leaner. The feeling, the juice, the energy, the mindset shift that happens when you know deep down that you accomplish the goal. And one, that feeling, the endorphins that you create, that's that inner juice that builds the confidence. So I have a saying. Pain leads to peace. And peace, in my opinion, is just being good at where you're at, you're comfortable where you're at. This quiet confidence that says, I'm at peace now because I know I did all the work. No one may have seen it, no one knows. The study, the sweat, the sacrifice, the insight, the neglect that I had to put in my life in order to gain something else. So that peace is what we're seeking. And that joy that's incumbent in that peace, knowing that you did the work. So when I would do these seven or eight hour night combat missions, facing panic attacks and a fear of heights, I almost died in a scuba diving accident. Long story short, folks, I developed claustrophobia three years into my flying career. A few days after the scuba diving incident, I was flying along in terrible weather and had a panic attack, developed claustrophobia, like, I got to get the heck out of this plane. And so for the next eight years of my 11 year flying career, every time I strapped into that plane to do what I love more than anything else, I had to deal with this missile, this demon that, uh, threatened to paralyze me and keep me in the hangar of fear instead of airborne. Facing my fears. Courageous, potentially getting shot at, but living, being in the cockpit, not missing an action, but making it happen in the sky. So your ability to strap into that jet and face those fears is critical. But after I did one mission after having a panic attack and landed, freaked out and said, I can't do this anymore, and then put the wings back on and said, one more mission, one more flight. Just take one more step forward. It got easier and easier. So eight hour missions in Iraq or Kosovo, the missiles were bothering me, but the claustrophobia, that was the real fear. And when I'd land, Zach, uh, I'd land and taxi and I'm like, man, no one knew the chaos that just ensued. No one knew that anxiety and craziness. This combat mission I had up here in my head and I'm taxing in saying another victory over the most important enemy or friend there is, which is ourselves. And I said, I did it. No one took that away from me. It was my own personal victory. And that's what built up the resilience and my courage and my ability to build credibility in coaching people and doing my programs now, because that's the real juice. It's not a fear like, oh, I was afraid of being rejected or I was afraid of being, you know, uh, I was a Jewish fighter pilot, right? You know, there was a little bit of, uh, anti Semitism growing up, but I don't live as A victim, right. I never looked at, but I'm talking about 30,000ft with missiles being launched saying I got to bail out of this plane because I'm going to jump through my skin. I'm facing true fear. Not simulated or psychological bs, but when we overcome ourselves, that builds competence and it often uh, causes scars, but it builds up this sense of compassion and empathy that we need as leaders, mostly with ourselves. When we do fail, learn that we're going to get back in the cockpit and say, I'm doing it again. I've got that true north. I want to get that feeling again of overcoming myself. And that's something that no other person can give you.

Speaker C: Waldo. This really resonates for me because in my story building my career engineering leader, things are going great and the missiles in my day to day life, dealing with challenges at work and solving big problems and hitting deadlines and meeting budgets, this sort of external stuff that was flying around you had to deal with. Yeah, those things were at times scary to me. But I also had this internal struggle of my marriage collapsing, things at home not going well, dealing with all this stuff in my own head. And so just this combination of like, yeah, there's things in the world to be afraid of. But a lot of times we've got something between our ears that's causing just as much or more uh, difficulty and moving through the day and both take courage to overcome. I found that true self esteem is on the other side of that victory. To your point, you know, when you do the hard thing, you get through like the, that feeling you're talking about. It's the closest thing I can think of that relates to real genuine esteem is when you've gone through it to the other side. And that to me that's uh, the only word I have for that feeling. I'm not sure there is another one, but awesome to hear that.

Speaker B: What is for you then if you

Speaker C: go into this stretch of the eight

Speaker B: years after that happen, so you're overcoming

Speaker C: every single flight, this part of you that wants to say don't get in the cockpit and you're doing it anyway, it starts to get easier.

Speaker B: What for you is the process of maintaining courage?

Speaker C: Like is it something that once you have it, it's always there, or do you find it's something you have to continuously face and work on? Or what's that strength or resilience you mentioned sort of building the resilience. How does that unfold?

Speaker A: So this is really, really important. Uh, I want to go back a little bit On, I call it envisioning the victory. Envision the victory. So if you're getting ready to fly that you know you're going to step out of your comfort zone with, envision that feeling, the feeling of landing your jet, accomplishing it, being on the stage, getting the promotion, getting the job, your spouse, saying, yes, starting your own business. How does that feel? And let that embrace you, and it kind of gives you that true north. Once again, for me, the last thing, and then I want to get into that last question, it's the next level of facing your fears is knowing who you're flying for and facing your fears for. And so as a parent, as a leader, as somebody who loves and truly wants to serve others, many times you commit more and face more fears for others than you do for yourself. So when I was leading men and women in combat or supporting my leaders, uh, as a wingman, as a teammate, when I focused on them, when I said, I have to support them, I got to have their back, I need to look out for the missiles and stay mission ready and be an asset to as opposed to a liability, it got me focused on my responsibility as a fighter pilot with these wings on that I needed to do this for them, and it was my damn job. So passion only gets us so far. Envisioning the victory and the joy and the thrill of victory can only get us so far. The next ultimate level, and truly the one that allows others to perform at maximum performance, is to think outside of your cockpit. Focus on those who need you, who are depending on you, and then get aligned with that. Then you distract yourself from yourself and be like, I'm not even afraid anymore. And if you're a parent afraid of heights, looking at that 33ft high diving board, if you're a parent, you may not jump, but if you're looking at your child drowning in the water, screaming, mommy, Daddy, help me, you're jumping, you're doing it in a heartbeat. And this is why service and courage is love in action. And this is why so many of the great leaders and the warriors of the world have this sense of responsibility for helping their teammates. And this is what drives you forward. And, uh, help me stay in the cockpit. Because there was no way I was letting down my wingman on those flights. I'm like, that ego, the sense of responsibility for helping them. I'm like, I'm not going to be quitting because they need me. And that's how you stay present. And then suddenly the claustrophobia, anxiety or

Speaker C: whatever, yes, Waldo can You say that again.

Speaker B: Courage is love in action.

Speaker A: Yeah. So courage is love in action, uh, or service is love in action. But courage ultimately is service in action. It's love in action. And it may be loving yourself, which is sometimes the hardest love. There is one other thing with this. Resilience isn't just, and this is important now as we deal with COVID combat and struggles in life. Resilience isn't just about, hey, you know, I'm having a hard day, I'm going to go take a nap, listen to some music, smell a rose, take a walk, pet my dog and kind of get into nature. I, uh, think all those things are important, right? And really creating that environment. But if you really want to be a top performer, a fighter pilot, a top gun, resilient leader in life with courage, you're going to expose yourself to those missions where you're grinding through the crucible. You're, you're burning your skin, you're scarring yourself and you're experiencing that panic and fear that only happens when you're, you're out there up front on that pointing edge when if you're in fitness and you're running, right, you know that, that pain and fear and you know that you're running and you're sweating and you're having that anxiety, whatever. Once again, that confidence that you build, the resilience is like saying to yourself, hey, I've been there before. Resilience and courage is also a byproduct of saying, look, I faced those fears before I stepped out of my comfort zone. I know what it's like to be running, uh, 10 miles or doing those weights and you want to pass out. It's not as foreign to me. So the more you do these fear invoking things, the more likely you will still do the ones that may be new to you. But saying, hey, I could do this because I've done it before and that is true resilience and that is true strength. So the more you expose yourself to these things, the more you'll be able to feel comfortable doing them. And also the more you'll be an example to others who are looking to you for guidance. Right? So think about that. Exposing yourself to those fear inducing things builds the resilience and your ability to face those fears, not just coping with change right by you m know, sipping a latte, having dark chocolate or uh, hugging your dog.

Speaker C: Right?

Speaker A: Which are all great things too. Okay, back to that other question that you asked me. I apologize if you have to ask again because I want that it's really important stuff. So now, eight years later, I think you said, how do I deal with it now? Can you share?

Speaker C: Yeah, I will ask it again, but I want to quickly connect a dot and tell me if I'm getting this right. Because the idea of resilience coming through, being willing to face these things and being able to say, I have been there before, I've done this before, I've overcome things before, that's that source of true resilience.

Speaker B: Earlier you mentioned, I don't believe in failure.

Speaker C: I either succeed or I'm growing. Forget this concept of failing.

Speaker B: I'm either winning or I'm learning and growing.

Speaker C: Does it matter if you're winning or if you're still in a learning mode? When it comes to building resilience, do you have to have the victory to

Speaker B: build resilience or is it enough to

Speaker C: just say, I faced it and I learned and I faced it again and I'm still, I'm still learning. Does that process equally build resilience?

Speaker B: Can you just link those two for me?

Speaker A: I think it does. Because like, once again, second place may not be feel good to you. Right. If you're competing or whatever. But hey, I'm evolving, I'm growing. But this is where inherent confidence comes from. When you see competent people, especially in certain things. And I've lacked confidence in certain areas, but I know I'm confident when it comes to leadership, when it comes to coaching, when it comes to keynote speaking, when it comes to running, uh, an entrepreneurial business, I'm pretty confident. I'm not as confident in some other areas. Right. And it's normally I'm not competent in areas that I haven't been working on.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: That I haven't been exposing to. Look, we talked about my, this room like, you know, looking at my image here, you know, with my background, I got the jet here, I got this nice microphone. You know, both of us got good lighting, we got good sound. That confidence comes because we took the courage to take some risks and we seeked more information and skills and we worked at it. Yeah, right. So the work, the progression, the tilling of the soil may not reap a whole, you know, bunch of corn, but if you get a good couple stalks out of it, it's better than nothing. And you can replant those and build up some more, some more courage and skills and confidence in the long run so you don't always have to win. But that incoming confidence, that's a byproduct of that, uh, effort's key. But then also, you may not be working in the right area as well. This is why my concept of never flying solo and having a wingman, a trusted partner in your life is key. Because if I was coaching you, Zach, and you were coaching me, you may say, well, Walter, tell me about what you're doing in your day to build resilience and growth. And I may say, I'm doing this and this. And you may say, well, have you thought about this? Or maybe you need to do this differently, or somebody else did that and failed. So the perspectives of others, mentors, coaches, peers, friends, partners, where they're going to give you some ideas and advice. It could be through a podcast like you're doing here. That is also the key to being humble and. And vulnerable enough to say, you know what? I'm not getting where I need to be fast enough. I keep trying, and I'm getting scarred, but I'm not progressing. Maybe it's because you're not doing the right things, or you need to just have a vector correction and having somebody in your life who can help you.

Speaker C: Okay. I love that.

Speaker A: That is the key, right? And if you're flying in your cockpit solo, hey, everything's going good. And, uh, somebody I love dearly does pretty well, but he very rarely seeks other insights. But when you seek, you shall find, in addition to giving help to others and giving. Helping them, now you got to say, hey, mayday, mayday, I need some help. How do I improve here? And, um, that M takes courage and vulnerability in and of itself. This is why you shouldn't be flying solo.

Speaker C: Uh, never fly solo. I love that. So take us back to the cockpit. You have this incident and a story for another episode. We'll come back, develop claustrophobia. Very inconvenient for a fighter pilot in a small space.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker C: And you have to overcome this every

Speaker B: single time you get in that F16,

Speaker C: you're facing this part of your psychology that's get me out of the cockpit. And what I'm curious about is, did that ever go away completely? Is it like, hey, once you face that demon and you've claimed victory, it's over. Or like a year later, five years later, eight years later, what was that like?

Speaker A: Okay, this is going to be the most important part of this podcast, something that I rarely talk about, but I came up with it recently, a few years ago. Your fears never go away. They're subjugated to your courage, to your joy, to how you live. Let me give you an example. Let's Say, ah, you know, there's no music playing right now, but tell me about your favorite type of music and what type of music do you. You not like? Zach, Give me. What music do you not like at all?

Speaker C: So, so it's so hard to pick, but my favorite type of music is usually, uh, Christian worship music because I love what it does for me and my spiritual life. So Charlie hall or a Matt Redmond or David Crowder band or something like that, I love that kind of music. But, um, as far as. Don't like. You know, honestly, probably the thing I don't like the most is some of this, you know, really emo kind of stuff that doesn't have a consistent rhythm and I can't. I can't dance to it. Anything that I can't dance to, I don't like because I.

Speaker A: Okay, good.

Speaker C: I like the beat. So that's. That's my bucket.

Speaker A: Let's call it. Let's call. Let's call it, uh, let's call the bad music. Thug rap, for that matter. You know, really, really demeaning rap or whatever. There's some really good rap as well out there. Uh, and then Christian music is your. Is your music of joy. Thug rap is the music of fear. So let's say the thug rap's going on. Boom, boom, boom. You hear it, you have it in the room right now, and it's kind of low, but you hear it in your back. And for others, it's country music or, uh, whatever. So you hear that music going on, and that's the fear. That's like the angst, the anxiety going on. Now, when you pop on another set of speakers, your Christian music or your Tchaikovsky or whatever, and you start raising it up, you hear both of them initially, but if you raise the music high enough of that Christian rock, it'll drown out the thug rap, right?

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker A: Does it mean the thug rap or the rap of music that you don't like isn't there? Is it still there? It's still there. Ah, but it's being drowned out by the music of joy, of what you love. And your job in life is to do the things to drown out that fear. The scar, the negativity, through your relationships, through your focus on God or whatever it is, your faith, through your health and fitness, through your meditation, whatever that is. And what happens many times is if you start hanging out with the wrong people, music starts, divine starts, lonely. Don't take care of your health and fitness, the music starts. Loan you have a bad experience in life and you experience some trauma. Music starts lowering and then that negative music doesn't need to increase, it just becomes more audible to you. And that's the challenge in life. My claustrophobia will never go away. I had a panic attack, a mini one, just a few weeks ago in the airport. I was thinking of something. I didn't get a lot of sleep. I've been helping someone I love going through a very tough time and I'm like, I'm watching this happen, Zach. I'm watching my heart rate go up and anxiety. I wanted to jump out of my skin. And I just started taking some deep breaths and did what I did before to overcome my fears and it went away. Your job in life is to just keep elevating that music and minimizing that and drowning out that fear. It just doesn't go away for that matter. And so when you live a healthy lifestyle and surround yourself with love and joy and peace and all those things, that's the key. And so that's my job right now. And that's how and why I work out and why I help other people and I do pro bono work or why I get joy out of things in life. Why I love my one year old Great Dane puppy, Willie, because I could be in a bad mood and I grab him and kiss him. He's fun. And why I love watching my son play soccer and coaching him before he goes to bed on overcoming fear and then doing things with my wife that watches her lift up her joy. So that's the key and that's the struggle and the joy of life and going through that journey. Don't be afraid that that fear is going to come back. And don't have the unrealistic expectation that the fear will go away.

Speaker C: Just go away.

Speaker A: Yeah, you just gotta sublimate it to the music. Uh, that brings joy and uh, presence in your life.

Speaker C: That's a perfect place for us to just let that sit and marinate. And uh, perfect metaphor. I mean so simple to appreciate that like, hey, it's not about trying to use my energy to make that other music stop, that you're going to burn a lot of calories and not get a lot of reward. And what I found while those actually trying to do that actually just turns the volume up on it because I'm focused on it all the time. It's like all I can hear. And I love this. Just take the actions, focus on the things that are going to crank the volume on what is good in your life. Courage, love, joy, passion. That vector that we talked about earlier.

Speaker A: So I want to, by the way, my goal, and I've been speaking professionally for 19 years. I need to do a TED talk on that. I want to call it something like Confessions of a Claustrophobic Fighter Pilot and share that story and share that analogy to people. And this is why I'm doing more on courage and why I eventually want to start a courage podcast. I coined the phrase a courage monger. There's enough fear mongers out there. I want to be the courage monger. Give them folks the courage.

Speaker C: Amazing. Amazing. Well, you're going to get a thousand percent support from Zach White if you do anything related to that, because courage is my jam, man. I just love that. Awesome. Well, Waldo, let's. Let's land the plane, so to speak. And I always land in the same place. So this is not at the Navy with a moving carrier. This is a nice, stable Runway. It's always in the same spot. I have found, and I believe 100% to be true, that you're great coaching, great engineering. It all begins with the questions that we ask. Because questions lead, the answers follow. And if we want to get different answers, we need to ask better questions. So for that engineering leader who's been listening to this conversation, and they want to experience greater courage that leads to greater success in these areas that are aligned with, with their North Star, with their vector, what would be the best question that you would lead them with today?

Speaker A: So I think, and this is based on my wingman philosophy of creating trusting partners in the world, a wingman wing, uh, persons, however you look at it, when the proverbial poop hits the fan, when you're strapping in that jet and you know the missiles are coming, you know the enemies, uh, cross the border, and you're going to have to face them, are you willing to ask others for help? And do you have a squadron of men and women in your life who, before you go, you can call them for help, for encouragement, to lift you up? I, uh, have a saying, you know, leaders lift. You know, who's going to coach you and give you that inspiration? Who's going to lift you up and say, you can do this, I believe in you. Who's going to give you the idea on how to face your fear and the actions you need to take? The more of those men and women you have in your life, and the more you use them and leverage them, the less likely you'll be afraid to take that action. Because as human beings, as children of God, as members of our community. When we work together and we create that inspiration by seeking out others who can help us, then we're able to step out of our comfort zones and truly create a life of meaning. And then finally, the next level is, who needs you to be that wingman? Who needs you to face that courage? Who can you create that example for and lift up through the pain and trial and tribulation that you m went through to build that growth and resilience? Because as a father, this is what I do for my son. For people who are listening in the dungeon of life, think of those who are going to be impacted by the challenges that you overcome, and that'll give that meaning to your mission and help you to, uh, take the next level.

Speaker C: I'm excited by that. I'm energized. Waldo, thank you so much for your time today. And I know everybody listening is going to want to get more from you and just learn about your work and hear more of the stories and the learnings and lessons from what you've done. So where can people go to get plugged in with Waldo Waldman and learn more?

Speaker A: So, number one, Google Waldo Waldman. Uh, my website's YourWingman.com YourWingman.com I'm, um, older than over Instagram. LinkedIn is my primary thing. That's where we've connected, Zach, and great job following up. And I always see you gifting other people with comments and posts, and you practice what you preach, by the way.

Speaker C: Thank you.

Speaker A: So I'm thankful for our friendship and the fact that we marinated that over the last few years. So Instagram, Walden Waldman, LinkedIn, Twitter, et cetera. And then, um, I'm gonna. On behalf of you and our friendship, I'm gonna. On the screen, there's a QR code and a, uh, website, yourwingman.um com NFS like never fly Solo. That's a free audiobook download of my New York Times or Wall Street Journal bestseller Never fly solo. It's 20 bucks on Audible, published by McGraw Hill. But my gift to the world is the fact that I own the rights to the audiobook, and I can give it away for free. So there it is right there. And so share it with your peers. Give it to your kids. That's, uh, how folks are getting in touch with me, and they'll get on my newsletter, et cetera, from that as well.

Speaker C: Perfect, Waldo. Thanks for your generosity in that. And if anybody's listening on Apple or Spot catching the video jump on our website, oasisofcurriage.com and grab it or we'll make sure you get access to that link. And I cannot say enough about how powerful Waldo is as a speaker and a leader to change the mindset and the culture of your organization. So if you want to bring Waldo into your company, it is a game changing experience for certain. So please reach out to Waldo directly and his team if that interests you. And read the book, listen to the book, look at his YouTube videos. I mean, this guy is, uh, just so much fun. So, Waldo, thanks again. Tremendous to have you on the show and hope we can do it again sometime soon.

Speaker A: Great to fly with you and get to know you as a person. Zach, thanks for the gift that you give others as well. It's been an honor.

Speaker B: This episode has been brought to you by massive action and decisive leadership. Okay, okay. No, those are not companies you can just buy success from, but they are qualities you must master if you want to build your career and balance your life. So to help you out, I'm offering my Most Popular eBook, 49 Things yous Must do to Accelerate youe Engineering Career, for free on our homepage@oisisofcourage.com if you will take action on just one of these simple tips each week, I promise you will experience a whole new level of results in the coming year. The problem is that we make everything too complex. Success at work is not rocket science. I mean, you might actually be a rocket scientist, and yet you're not getting the success you desire. One engineering senior manager told me that taking action on TIP 34 by itself helped him feel happier at work and allowed him to start spending more quality time with his kids. To get your free copy of the ebook, just visit oasisofcourage.com, scroll down to the bottom of the homepage and click Download. Now. Let me take the next few minutes and just do my best to be your wingman for this conversation. How will you take what Lt. Col. Waldo Waldman shared with us and put it into practice and action in your career and in your life as an engineering leader? The first place that really, really stood out to me in this conversation, and I want to come back to it and challenge you in this area, was how Waldo presented the idea of pain, discomfort, the struggle that. The idea of facing resistance throughout your day. I thought that was incredibly simple but powerful. When Waldo drew that distinction to say, look, uh, tell me about your day. Tell me what you're doing. Tell me what you're doing that is causing you to feel uncomfortable, to feel that pain, to feel that Challenge that resistance, that thing that hurts when you had to face it and move through it, because pain leads to peace. This is huge. This is huge. And it really addresses what I call the difference between massive action and passive action in your life. You know, massive action moves the needle towards that vector, that North Star that matters for you. Massive action is doing the work that actually gets results. It means facing that discomfort. It means stretching outside your comfort zone, taking real action that moves the needle toward the goal. Passive action, on the other hand, if you haven't heard me talk about this before, are, uh, those things we do that feel like progress, but they don't actually move the needle. And some of those activities are good in the sense that maybe we're learning, we're absorbing new ideas and information, but if we don't put them into practice, then nothing actually happens. Listening to this podcast, for example, is a passive action. If all you ever do is listen to the podcast, if you're not taking real action in your own career and life with what you're hearing, then this podcast is doing you no good. Well, this question of assessing pain in your day, I believe this is a really strong indicator of are you living a life of massive action or a life of passive action? Now, if you are simply sitting around watching Netflix, burning calories on the couch, then you are not, uh, in any question about whether or not you're taking the right kinds of actions. I'm talking about for the person who feels really, really busy. You feel like you're not able to fit anything more into your life. You know, you're taking care of work, you're taking care of the family, you're taking care of your community, your church, your health, all these different domains that you have responsibilities for. And you feel full, you feel busy, you feel maybe even a bit burned out. Well, how do you know if the things that you're doing are training you to reach that next level versus doing the same things over and over and over again that are not taking you anywhere? And this question of where are you feeling the pain in your day? Is a really simple assessment to take. And I just want you to be honest, Be honest with yourself. If everything that you're doing is relatively simple and easy. It's just a lot. I'm overwhelmed because there's more on my to do list than I'm able to get done. If that's the kind of overwhelm you're experiencing, it's not the kind of action that's going to stretch you and help you grow and Help you break through to the next level. You're not facing fear and doing it anyway. You're not being courageous. If there's nothing in your day that when you face it, causes that moment of pause, that moment of uncertainty, that moment of, yikes, this is going to be tough. I'm not sure what's going to happen here. Do I have what it takes,

Speaker A: right?

Speaker B: That kind of feeling, you know what I'm talking about? That feeling of facing a gnarly challenge. If you don't have that in your day, then you're not growing. So we don't want to be all thrust and no vector. Uh, we don't want to be all thrust, no vector. I mean, engineering leaders, that makes perfect sense to us the way that we think. It's like, yeah, I don't want to just burn energy but not have a direction. So just recapping what Waldo shared with us, do you have a clear vector? Have you been envisioning that victory? But recognize too, that passion within yourself on behalf of only yourself only goes so far. And that second point of knowing also, who are you flying for? I think that's so important. I've coached hundreds of engineering leaders around the world. And one thing that is consistent is that our purpose has an element of community and connection and relationship in this life. Who are you flying for? When we do life purpose statements and life purpose work with our clients, we find every single time that there is a key dimension of that who question. Building courage is love in action. Building courage is love in action. I want to sit on that point for just one moment. Love in action. Love is such a powerful emotion, but love without action is not going to take you towards results and outcomes in your life. You know this in relationships, that's the context where we think about love the most. You know, maybe you're dating, engaged, you might be married. Think about that person who you love, who you're in an intimate relationship with. You can talk about love, you can tell them that you love them and all these things and have that idea and even feel the emotion of love. But if you don't share that with them through action, how does that go? Have you been in that place? I know I have. My wife hears this, she'll probably remind

Speaker C: me that I need to put love

Speaker B: in action a little bit more from time to time. It's easy to make that mistake of simply feeling love and not showing it through action. Now take it out of just that relationship context and think about courage and service as love in action. You know, what else do we love in life? I love making a difference. I love helping people. I love a, uh, good challenge. I love to overcome a challenge, to face these big obstacles and create solutions. Hey, we're engineers. We love that. You know, facing a really gnarly problem and having to figure out how to solve it. I love that. You know, English as a language gets a little confusing because we only have this one word, love, and it doesn't really create great distinction between all the different forms of love and all the different things that we love and all the different people that we love. You know, I say I love pizza and I love my wife, and using that same word, it's hardly fair. You know, languages like Greek and Latin had more character, more flavor around this idea of love. But love in action, what a powerful way to think about what courage and service looks like. Let me leave you with just one more thing and, uh, a very specific action. I really believe if you take it will change your life and compound the quality of your life, uh, for the better, over time. And it's that last point Waldo brought up of thinking about fear and courage or love in action, as these two different soundtracks, these two different soundtracks playing in your mind. And the fear soundtrack doesn't go away. In fact, as you level up in your career, you're going to face new and bigger fears.

Speaker C: You see, you may have heard the

Speaker B: phrase new, uh, level, new devil.

Speaker C: I've heard that before. I think it's funny, but it's true.

Speaker B: You don't just stop feeling fear as you take on bigger and bigger challenges.

Speaker C: You're going to face bigger and bigger fears.

Speaker B: Your role, your job in this is to do the things that turn up the volume on the soundtrack of love, courage, and power of resilience in your life. And here's the action I would encourage you to take. Be proactive, to write down and get clear on what those actions are that turn up the volume of the soundtrack you desire. What are they? This is easy to get lost in the concept and forget to put it into practice. I would encourage each of you to, you know, as soon as you finish listening to this podcast, we're about done, stop and write down what are five easy things. They don't cost a lot of money. They don't take a lot of time. Five easy things that you can do, you can specifically do. Not ideas, specific actions. Not a concept, not a theory. A specific action that you can take that helps you to turn up the volume on the soundtrack of your life that you desire. The soundtrack of love, courage, power, resilience. What are those actions? So, for example, in my life, I know that stopping and getting into the presence of gratitude and appreciation in a journal or even just spoken out loud helps me to turn the volume up on that soundtrack every single time. Meditation, even for 10 minutes, even five minutes, helps me to turn the volume up on what I desire. I know that listening to some of my favorite music helps turn the soundtrack up on love, courage, joy. I know that hanging out with the people who I love turns that up. And I know that when I get exercise and push myself to sweat, when I get my sweat on, that action helps me to get connected to the soundtrack of courage and joy in my life. And I could go on and on. I, uh, really encourage you. Capture at least 5 today and add to that list, what are all of the actions that when you take them, it turns that volume up. You don't want to wait until the moment when you're feeling trapped and drowned out by the music of fear to then try and figure out, what do I need to do to get out of this place. The time to put those actions on paper and get clear about them is when you're not feeling that way and when the voice of fear and the soundtrack of fear is quiet. So take that action, get clear on it, and then the next time you have a free moment, pull out that list and take an action. The next time fear is getting louder, rather than trying to simply turn that down, let's go focus on turning up the volume of courage. I'm proud of you. It's awesome to be with you on this journey. Thanks so much for sharing your time and investing your time with me and the podcast today. I hope what Waldo shared with you really sticks with you and transforms your life, shapes your mindset, helps you to lean in to courage. Pain leads to peace. So if you're in pain right now, keep pressing through. It's going to be worth it. And I'll see you on the other side, my friend. That's all we've got for this episode of the Happy Engineer podcast. Thank you again for investing your time with me today. If you're like me, then maybe you'll take some notes and share this episode with your fellow engineers.

Speaker C: Why?

Speaker B: Because it will help you learn deeper, remember these insights, and take action. So share this episode with two or three friends just like you who are committed to building their career. Lastly, make sure to link up with us at oasisofcurage.com, grab our free tools for career growth. There in the resource hub and and schedule a free call with our coaching team today. Please just share, share, share this podcast with anyone who you think might enjoy it. Until next time, remember to crush, comfort, create courage, and let's do this.

Speaker A: Sam.