From 1.7 to 4 million EBITDA | Capital Hospitality Europe

Speaker A: Talking about numbers. When we acquired the property, I think we were roughly at 1.5 uh, million of EBITDA, uh, 1.7. When we sold earlier this year, the EBITDA was close to 4 million. Uh, so it's been a fantastic uh, jump, uh, rarely in your career you can increase as much the EBITDA as we did on a, let's say a kind of stabilized trophy asset.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to Inside Hotel Asset Management. This is a Future of Hospitality podcast. So in this series we are exploring hotel asset management through real hospitality case studies and we'll have practical conversations about uh, strategic decisions shaping long term value because of course that's what we do in hotel asset management. Today we are going to focus on La Perouse in Nice. La Perouse is an iconic boutique hotel overlooking uh, La Baie des Anges. And in this case study we are going to talk about the acquisition strategy, the repositioning, renovation and the commercial performance of the um, of the hotel. But also we'll talk about the role of hotel asset management in unlocking the full potential of this asset. Joining us today is Pierre Louis Belanger and Maxime Demonstier from Capital Hospitality Europe. And together we will explore what made this property attractive and which decisions mattered most and what other owners, operators and future hotel asset managers can learn from this transformation. All right, so before we are going to talk about the case itself, let's start with uh, an introduction of you know, these uh, two gentlemen here and I would like to hear a little bit as well about the story behind Capital Hospitality Europe. Pierre Louis, would you like to start?

Speaker A: Yes. Thank you for having us, Luke. Uh, we're very flattered for uh, of this invitation. So thank you, thank uh, you for having us and uh, and being able to comment on this uh, on our platform and on this superb acquisition and disposals that we made on uh, on La Perouse. So Capital Hospital Europe is an operating partner, two larger institutional investors. So Maxim and I have known each other for a uh, long, long ah, period of time because we were initially at ah, Schroeder's real estate Hotel. So we've known, uh, we've known each other at, at this moment in time and decided to launch together uh, what was initially Catalan Hospital Europe, uh, which has been renamed to Capital Hospitality Europe, uh, through the share buyback of Catela, uh, who was our main shareholder back in uh, uh, from 2019 to 2023. I'm heading acquisitions and development together with Rodolf and Maxim that I will let, I will let him introduce himself, his Overheading operations which is uh. An important uh if not the major of the uh. Of the platform. Thank you.

Speaker C: So hello everyone. Thank you again Luke for hosting us today. Uh, so Maxime Demantier, um, just to give you a bit of background uh on our two profiles with Pianouille, we are both uh alumni of Ecole Atelier de Lausanne, so we are pure atelier. Um and uh. Yes I'm in charge of the uh asset management um segment uh let's say of Capital Hospitality Europe. Uh as uh Pierre we said we are operating partners. So basically um. We cover the full detention circle, let's say 360 degrees of the acquisition to the disposal of the asset. And uh. My goal let's say or my main uh source subject of uh. Of works are uh the. The. The detention period of the uh. Of the asset uh unlocking the uh. Unlocking the uh. The performance of the hotel through uh Capex, uh optimization of the turnover and uh. Also uh.

Speaker B: Uh.

Speaker C: Shrinking the charges, the operation operating charges let's say for the uh uh. Making the uh. Uh. Making the profitability the best as possible.

Speaker B: Great. Okay thank you. So uh. Pierre Louis, you mentioned something um. Um. Know very important and I don't think we discussed uh this on. On. On. On the podcast before. You said you. You consider yourself as an operating partner. So what do you mean by that?

Speaker A: Yes, so contrary to pure service providers, we are obviously covering that. That specification of service provider but we have an aligned interest with the uh. With the ownership. So. Meaning that we are co. Investing in each and any deal that we are uh envisaging to. To acquire. Um because one we uh believe in you know those. Those investment thesis that we're working on. Uh and so we have skin in the game into uh. Into the deals and we are trying to unlock the value through good acquisition parameters of course and through uh very dynamic asset management dimensions which are. Which can be twofold. Uh, the asset management as you know, property management, asset managing, um, third party management agreements such as with Radisson or with Accor or with Marriott. So we are overseeing managers uh themselves and also through um the direct management. Because most uh of the hotels that we are. We own are directly managed by our uh teams. So we've got internal resources to oversee all aspects of the uh daily management of operations.

Speaker C: Understood.

Speaker B: So um. Maybe for Maxim. So Maxim, you mentioned that you're in charge of operations. Is your background um mainly operational done as well?

Speaker C: I suppose yes, uh, my full background is made of operations. Uh once graduated from the Ecoloteller de Lausanne. I uh, took over the operations for uh Louvre Hotel um in the UK for roughly three years I was in charge of 18 hotels. So I've been always in my career in charge of uh, country clusters and everything. And when we met with uh Plui. Uh at Algonquin, which became Schroeder's Real Estate Hotels, um I started there as uh, uh managing director of a group of boutique hotels uh in Paris uh that we launched with uh plv. Uh and then I took over the full responsibility of operations and asset management over mainly the uh franchise hotels and independent hotels. Um so yes, my full background has been always in uh, in operations, uh uh, managing hotel directors or being myself a hotel manager, uh managing director of a hotel group.

Speaker A: Great.

Speaker B: Okay. And. And Pierre Louis about, about Capital, uh Hospitality Europe. So what makes Capital Hospitality Europe different from other operating partners or you know, these types of service providers?

Speaker A: Yeah, I mean we are an early stage company so we're not as established as other you know, competing uh operating partners that may have more balance sheets uh than us to co. Invest in. But we're very so newborn of course because just seven years of uh, you know, history is still uh early in the asset class. As you know the, the cycle of real estate uh are fairly longer. Uh so we, we need, we need time to grow. Uh but I think within seven years we've accomplished uh so much and I think uh, it's fair to say that we are positioning ourselves among the top operating partners in uh Europe uh when those operating partners uh have a longer history, probably 20, 30 years of history, uh with much uh a bigger number of hotels under management. But within these seven years and through the you know, what has been going on with the COVID What has been going on with the uh, uh interest, uh interest increase of 2022 which is coming again uh now at, at At a big uh, uh at a fast pace. Uh uh, we've grown the portfolio to half a billion of asset value which are essentially 15 hotels in different locations. So in the Netherlands, in Belgium, in France. I myself, myself based in um Spain in Barcelona and trying to cover that Southern Europe uh deal flow, uh uh when Maxime is based in Paris and also Rodolphe is covering the northern, a bit more specifically the northern part of Europe, uh based in London, it's obvious. Uh, and we um, uh we have today more or less 15 people uh in the team, uh and ranging different types of uh services which are from you know, revenue management, asset management, technical skills, uh pure um management skills as well. Because these are people uh, that have, you know, being involved in operations, direct operations before joining us. So we are very agile, I would say newborn but very agile company.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: And if I, if I can, if I can just add something which makes us a bit specific I think and uh, on the market is that we are also able to address many kinds of uh, hotels, uh, types, let's say from very small boutique hotels, like 25 bedrooms, uh very luxury hotels such as the one that we are overlooking in the Gulf of Saint Tropez. And uh, our biggest hotel is uh, roughly 300 bedrooms, uh, in our portfolio. So we can address three, four stars, five stars, uh, hotels, residents, uh, uh, and just to add on the profile of the teams, um, it's very important when you give guidance to hotel managers. It's uh, very important to have credibility. Uh, uh, so we need people that have a real expertise in both management, finance, uh, and, or another topic such as the technical uh, aspect as uh, was mentioning.

Speaker A: I think it's very important from the investment side. Sorry to interrupt Luke. But to, to be a direct manager of hotels makes us very strong in the underwriting of investment theses as well. Uh, because we believe that you cannot be a good investor if you're not a good asset manager or a manager, direct manager because you know the, the full cycle and the full uh, value creation work where is coming the value creation of hotels, uh, by being involved in direct operation on a daily basis.

Speaker C: And let me add one more thing. We do define ourselves as asset managers, but the reality is hotels are mainly um, made of staff. So we are asset managing hotels, but by, by asset managing hotels we are managing people. So this is very important to have like managerial skills to uh, to run that kind of uh, of uh, of business.

Speaker A: I agree.

Speaker B: That's good. And so, so tell me a little bit about you know, if I would be uh, a hotel owner, so what would be the perfect asset for you guys? So, so give me an example. You know, if you're, if you're what, what, what's the perfect asset?

Speaker A: You.

Speaker C: You.

Speaker B: So what, what does it have to bring or what's the typical asset you love to work on?

Speaker A: Well, I will let Maxim speak a bit more precisely about you know, unlocking uh, what's the typical value unlocking uh, that he likes. Uh, it's very personal. But on, on an investment side I would say, you know, uh, transformational capex, change of brands, um, uh yeah, change of contracts, uh, basically big size hotels with different um, you know, situations of uh, FNB Outlets to be you know, reshaped to be rethink uh that are well you know, supporting well the ADR growth of the hotel itself. Ah, that's the kind of story we like. It's like when you have like a 360 kind of holistic um experience on the hotel and you can work on all those streams to make. To unlock the value

Speaker C: just to compete

Speaker B: with preference for complexity a little bit.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: So you're not afraid of something with a lot of angles to look at and things to fix. Yes, Max Maxim.

Speaker C: No, this is. Yeah, I think we do prefer uh assets hotels on which we have several leverage to activate rather than only one. Uh, and what makes us very excited let's say with PLV and the rest of the team is uh hotels on which we can create value. Not extract value, create value. We do love assets with PLV on which we uh, can unlock the performance uh of. From the top line through a different mix of clientele through a capex program, through uh. A better revenue management strategy. Um rather than uh. Being very uh. Uh line by line on the operational charges. This has to be done also. But this is much more exciting on a daily basis to work on creating the value through the top line and because that's also lead the teams uh on the hotels and make them much more satisfied of their daily works let's say.

Speaker B: Understood. And I think that's a perfect bridge to our case study here to La Perouse in Nice. So tell me a little bit about uh, La Perouse. So what attracted uh, you guys to this investment? What was it where you said okay, we can do something here?

Speaker A: Yeah, maybe I'll give you a bit of context before diving into the asset management uh um. Uh. M Initiatives that we uh. That we worked on. Uh La Perouse was a bit of an asset left alone in a portfolio of uh. An institutional investor that focused mainly on the. On the big boxes within this portfolio, rather on the small jewel that was in the. In the portfolio. So that's what. That's where we. We thought there was value to be created. And, and. And we after probably seven I think loi. We convinced the investor to um. Grant us with an exclusivity to buy it. Of course this was during COVID So we benefited from this kind of transactional environment with assets, uh you know, are at a crossroad of decisions. So uh. We jumped on the opportunity when it uh. When it arrived and many tried to uh. To. To. To. To buy it. But essentially we had the good pricing of course but also uh, cost of capital, um, alignment of um. The shareholders that we onboarded, uh, the investors that we onboarded into this equity story were strategic investors um, with a great appetite for the asset class. Even though Covid was there and was kind of a frightening element uh to many. Uh, so we managed our way through uh. This environment and acquired uh. The property with great acquisition metrics. I mean great acquisition metrics at the time in 2021, uh, it was very difficult to project yourself into okay what was coming as like the next. The post Covid phase. So this was scary. And it was also scary reflecting in our projections because we would took a bit of conservative uh. Um stance when projecting because you wouldn't know exactly at which pace the tourism would come back and at which level it would come back. So there was. So we had no other option that to be a bit cautious in our projections when uh. Submitting uh offers. And then we also calibrated a capex program that was based on prior uh. Historical performance of uh. What was the market of nice. Uh and what was the market for you know, the performance for leisure assets in. In general which were not as um. Powerful as the Postco phase. Right. Because we've seen this kind of emerging asset class of the leisure asset class Postco. Uh, it's been clearly uh. At the. At ah the center. It's clearly at the center of all investment thesis at the moment because the elasticity that you can find in pricing is within the leisure guest uh mix rather than in the corporate mix. So uh. This. We didn't see that coming. And that accelerated our business plan as well with an amazing effect. So we had tailwinds post Covid to play with. Um. So I think you know this uh acquisition has been very well manage. We've been lucky in some ways having these tailwinds, uh pushing the. Pushing the business plan much beyond uh. What was our initial projections. And then the asset management uh work of Maxim and his teams have been emphasizing this uh. This effect. Uh so I will let maybe Maxim give a bit of uh. Of also color of uh. You know what. What happened there and what did we find when we entered into this property and what we made uh in probably 18 months, uh two years, less than two years, what we've created. Uh. And that had clear effect on the performance

Speaker B: maxime.

Speaker C: Yeah. Um, so when we bought the hotel it was like 56 rooms, uh hotel um, which was not very consistent to be honest. We had like very dodgy rooms looking uh, at uh walls, uh back walls from uh. From close by uh buildings. Um. Uh. The hotel was uh. Under uh invested over the past years, uh from the previous owner. The teams were um. To be honest, not very motivated because uh. A lot of promises were made and were not fulfilled by the previous owners, uh in terms of investment. Um uh. So the first thing that we did work on with Plui and the rest of the team was uh. Um. Uh. Shaping, let's say, the Capex investment plan to make it the most efficient possible. We made a very strong decision which was reducing the room count of the hotel. This is not something very usual, let's say in our business because we usually sell or buy the hotel by also a figure by room, a number of euros per room. So we decided nevertheless to reduce uh the room count to 53. So reducing by three just to make it much more consistent. Already thinking about the disposal of the asset, saying that when we will sell the asset, the hotel will be much more consistent, uh versus the situation in which uh we found it when we acquired it. Um, so we decided to run um the transformation on the hotel on mainly two aspects. Uh, a Capex plan, uh uh. And making the FNB profitable, which was not the case uh in the previous uh. Um, uh, years, let's say. So uh, for the Capex program, uh, it was tough because as Pianou said, all the prices and all the crisis, uh. Uh. With the COVID made all the prices, uh from plaster to screws and everything raised up to by 30%, let's say. So we had to make a very efficient uh capex plan. We chose a good team of designers to be honest. That was their first hotels and they were mainly uh. Dedicated in fnb, uh outlets, uh which were very successful. So we decided to make the hotel um. A very boutique hotel, uh uh, not uh. A massive one with 53 bedrooms, but uh. Targeting individuals that were not looking to be seen, let's say if they want to be seen, they go to the Negro school or to other places. So we wanted to have the secret gem, uh a hidden gem in Nice, uh, overlooking the Bai des Anges. Um so we did a full Capex plan. We did refurb the full hotel with a lot of uh, uh, defensive capex meaning like very technical aspects and everything. Uh uh. We made it in roughly uh 7 months. So it has been, to be honest, a very tough period. And we did also work very uh. Uh, closely with the team of the hotel in order to make the fnb, as I was saying, uh, very efficient and uh. Very readable. Let's Say. So we wanted to have uh, uh, fnb, uh uh, selling uh, to the client, uh, something that reflects Nice and the French Riviera. So we had a lot of uh, uh, of dishes to share and everything. And that has been a success. It has been a very difficult uh, capex program and transformation of the hotel due to the complexity of the asset because the asset is not uh, on the. On the promenade design. It's a bit above. So we had to. We uh, had to uh. To run a transformation with uh. Many, many operational uh difficulties let's say. But um. But we did it and we did open just PR. Formula 1 Grand Prix of Monaco, uh two days prior to the Grand Prix. So it would have been a nightmare if we were not ready. But we were, we've been ready. And then as uh piano we said uh, a combination of uh, a good FNB product to attract the locals. So a good product.

Speaker B: Talking about the fmb. So is it. Did you change the concepts or did you you know, have.

Speaker C: Yeah, we changed. We changed the full concept. Yeah, we changed the full concept. Going from something that wanted to be a luxury style, uh um, in the previous years to something much more. Not affordable but much more convivial, let's say. How would you say that in English?

Speaker A: Um, small lifestyle, more friendly lifestyle, Authentic.

Speaker C: Yeah, uh, lifestyle. So in order to both attract, as I was saying, the locals and the hotel clients. Um and we did recruit a very good chef. He did a super job. Uh, we did recruit the full team, uh uh. And we did also create an outlet on the rooftop of the hotel which uh uh, was hosting once per week barbecue or uh, uh, barbecue event with privatized tables and everything. And that was uh, uh, one of the um, uh most viewed. Let's say that that was a very Instagrammable uh uh offer. Let's say we had a lot of

Speaker A: selling proposition of the hotel.

Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. Uh, so yeah, the FNB was uh, profitable and very profitable when we uh, disposed the assets. So combination of good FNB product, good repositioning, a very good strategy in terms of uh, revenue management and sales and market distribution. Uh plus uh, um, we motivating all the teams uh uh, behind that goal. Uh plus as can we were saying the tailwinds of the uh, of the market, uh that made the good combo let's say.

Speaker B: So actually it's you know, thinking about this strategy very often as an hotel investor. You're trying to think about ways uh, how to increase the room count and you guys did the opposite. You, you reduce the Room count. Um, you're thinking about uh, you know, how can we maybe concentrate m the food and beverage operations a little bit. So maybe trying to, to combine one or two outlets or you know, closing an outlet even. But you guys added an outlet. So that's, this is it. It's, it's quite a bold um, strategy in the end. So very, it's very innovative. So congratulations. I mean that's just uh, that's fantastic because you know, I've been looking bit about, you know, at, at. At the results here. Um, and uh. Yeah, you want to, you want to share a little bit about, you uh, know how, how successful this strategy in the end was.

Speaker A: No, it's true. Talking about numbers. When we acquired the property, I think we were roughly at 1.5 million, uh, of EBIDA, uh 1.7. When we sold earlier this year, the ebitda was close to 4 million. So it's been a fantastic uh, jump. Rarely in your career you can increase as much the EBITDA as we did on a, let's say a kind of stabilized trophy assets. Uh, because this hotel was iconic in this was uh, echoing uh, to a lot of international guests, US Guests. So yeah, it had already quite its reputation on uh, on the, on the market, but was just not uh, needed a, needed a boost. So, so that's what we've uh, that's what we've made. And yeah, so we, we sold earlier this year on this crazy EBITDA figure that enabled us to, you know, uh, because when you look at the price per key, then very often when it reaches like you know, those above 1 million, uh, per key, uh, very, very often you don't get the yield for that price. Right. But here the story was very different because you, you would offer a close to 6% yield to the investor. M. So maybe we've not sell high enough. That's another question. But you know, we thought it was a good moment to uh, to sell off, to dispose of the asset. And I think we've been right in doing so because just an instance after we sold there was this geopolitical crisis in Iran and you know, it could have impacted uh, clearly the disposal uh, process. So again, uh, we've been lucky in the cycle because we acquired with very good uh, parameters in 2021. I've uh, I've done a fantastic job on the asset management, benefited from this postco tailwinds and, and sold. And we sold at the uh, what we consider is the very good momentum and the very best moment. So within A biz, a business plan that has shortened because we were supposed to keep the assets a bit longer, uh, in the business plan. So we sold and we even thought about selling one year earlier. But we thought, okay, let's take the risk to really consolidate that performance and increase it. Instead of selling on a, you know, 3 million EBITDA, let's reach, let's reach 4 and let's, let's sell on 4. So we had also to convince our uh, investors to stay with us for one more year when the uh, you know, the sales proceeds that would have come out from the sales process one year earlier would have been amazing. But we did even better by waiting for another year, which is also very, um. Normally in this private equity environment you would extract the value as early as possible. And you know, Luke, uh, before you were at tcp, you know how these people do things. So this, this is the same environment we were in. So we had a family office, but very financial family office in the shoulder together with a private equity fund. And they, and they listened to us to keep the asset a bit longer.

Speaker B: Yes, indeed. Now I can imagine that must have been a little bit of a tough sell. But uh, in the end it paid out very well for them. So that's, that's great. Um, maximum. So what, what were the, you know, what are the KPIs, you know you are most proud of, you know, if you think about measuring success and, and what you've achieved in this hotel, which KPIs? Is there something you can share with um, with the audience here?

Speaker C: Uh, what are the KPIs? Well basically, uh, first the, the level of EBITDA that uh, Pierre we was mentioning, that's one of the, one of the, one of the best KPIs, I think. Uh, the second one would be um, the level of uh, refpar, uh revenue per available room which was above uh, uh, again as a clarification, the La Perouse was uh, classified four star hotels and we did overperform quite a few five stars on the destination of Nice. So uh, that was something we are. And we were very proud of the level of quality, the grading on booking.com, google reviews and everything which was like uh, up to the stars. Um, we were very proud of that. Uh, and something we are also very proud is the staff retention. Because in that kind of assets, uh, when you made uh, when you make your notoriety on uh, quality, uh, uh, as Pianouy was saying, the La Perouse was already well known on the US market and people were Coming back also for the attention of the staff and everything. So uh, when you have a good staff retention, uh that has also its benefits uh in terms of uh, creating consistency uh in the welcoming of the guest, uh, and getting a lot of returning guests. So um, uh, those indicators were uh. Uh, very satisfactory, uh to be honest.

Speaker B: And now thinking back because we completed the full cycle here, you bought the asset, you came up with initiatives in order to increase the performance that was implemented the CAPEX program and then um, the investor sold the asset uh in. In you know, uh, recently. So, so um. But thinking back, you know, to the whole process here, is there something you say this, this is something you know, we should have done differently or you know something for. For. For the. For future projects where you say this, this is something we, we could have.

Speaker A: If I may, um. I think when you sell it's very important to leave a bit of meat uh on the bone for the next investor to project itself and, and get a sense of okay, I'm um. I'm taking ownership of the. It's not a pure legacy, of course. He's buying a legacy of things that have been uh, done historically over 100 years. Because this hotel like thing, it was open in, in the 30s, in the 1930s. So uh, you know, it was a historical asset. Uh, uh. So as, as Maxim was mentioning, there was some, you know, we started to open an outlet but on more events orientated uh formats rather than like four, uh, 24, uh, not 24 but you know, seven days a week kind of open outlets. So that wasn't the case. That was the next kind of step we were uh, starting to, to consider. We wanted first to consolidate the current performance and then leave those things a bit for later. And there was like technical aspect that were very hard to uh, to navigate because you would have uh, you would. You would require the authorization of the municipality to open a back door and uh, and have guests, uh, public guests, uh escape in case of, you know, fire in case of, you know, you need your escape routes to be uh, to be clear. Uh, so there was different technicalities that would prevent us to open uh seven days a week. But that was the intention and that was the, the story also that we uh. That we gave out to the market which was very palpable because there was already an exit route uh, that was just closed because for some reason in political, um, political matters. But it was just a matter of exploring further uh those, Those. Those value creation uh drivers which, which we left for the next acquirer as meat on the bone again and together with a great running yield. Entry Yield is because 6% on A, on an asset, on such an asset is already a very good um, profitability ratio. But potentially you would. You could increase it through the activation of those value creation drivers

Speaker B: and. All right, we have a few more minutes left. Four or five minutes. So, um, maybe let's talk about a few more, you know, general questions here. So, um, congratulations on La Perouse. I think, you know, you've guys. You guys have done an amazing job here. Um, if you would um, you know, give um, advice to. To young, uh, to. To people who are, you know, finishing their hotel school. I mean you've both. We've, the three of us, we've been to ecology. So what would you give um, as an advice for people just finishing their studies? You know, what, what would you say? And then m. Because you know, I have that question a lot. You know, I'm finishing my hotel school. So what do you think, um, is. Is the um. Is the best next step if I want to be working in hotel investments or asset management Maxim? What do you think?

Speaker C: I think the. There is a small difference between investment and asset management. So I'll start with the asset management and I will leave. Pierre. We finished, uh, as I am always saying, a uh, school maybe, uh, more hotel school, I don't know. But hotel school at least give uh, you all the tools, uh, and then you need to practice the tools, let's say. Uh, So I would suggest to anyone finishing a hotel school, uh, wanting to uh, go into asset management. As I was saying before, I think to asset manage you need to get a bit of credibility, to be honest, uh, either on finance, either on uh, distribution, either on revenue management, either, uh, uh, on management, uh, a department on a hotel. So I would suggest to anyone wanting to go into the asset management in hotels to practice a bit, uh, get a bit of experience into the hotel, uh, into a hotel or a cluster of hotels, uh, because then uh, it's much more easy and smooth, let's say in order to uh, move on uh, to the asset management. So yeah, uh, gain a bit of experience on the field or at the headquarter of a hotel group, let's say.

Speaker A: And I would maybe add, definitely do a 360 of operations before considering any uh, asset management. But also look at who is the uh, what's the ownership. Is there a uh, degree of um, uh, exigence requirements, uh, professionalism that would, you know, because being raised in operations with the demanding ownership is the. Is the best gift you can, uh, you can offer to yourself because you would have the proper management above you, you would have the proper, you know, reflex and tools to, uh, navigate through demanding operations and then shifting towards asset management. So always, look, just don't just look at hotels themselves, but look at what's behind it and what's the capital behind it. How's the capital steering operations and impulsing this kind of demanding environment, professional environment, because that's key, uh, to your career and just your, um, natural benefits.

Speaker B: Fantastic. Thank you very much, Pierre. Oui, thank you, Maxime. Thanks for joining. Joining us here today and sharing the story behind La Perouse. Uh, this case study was really a very strong example of how asset management connects with investments. I thought, uh, that was really fascinating. Thank you very much. So thank you everyone for watching or listening to the, uh, Inside Hotel Asset Management podcast, which is part of the Future of Hospitality series. Um, if you like this conversation, please follow, uh, the Future of Hospitality podcasts and, uh, subscribe to the series. And now I'm going to say bye bye to everyone and I'll, uh, see you in the next conversation.