Vinny Dotolo | Award-Winning Chef and Co-Owner of Jon & Vinny’s

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Speaker B: Here we go.

Speaker C: Yeah, I imagine that it inspires people to constantly, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Get out there and make their own. But it's, um.

Speaker B: It's great, you know, podcasting. I feel like it's one of those formats that, you know, it's. It's tough to tell, like, what a person's like on, like, a Twitter, for example, or on social media.

Speaker C: Right, Absolutely.

Speaker B: So when you. When you hear someone speak, it's. It's like, oh, that's who they are.

Speaker C: You know, those little short bits of. Of, uh, of a idea, maybe sort of, you know, taken out of context. And. And. And I think, yeah, social media can be. I kind of, like, lean towards not being on it.

Speaker B: Yeah. I feel like you're pretty off of social media. Yeah. I was trying to, like, search and see. Yeah. One photo on Instagram.

Speaker C: Yeah. Now I do, um. I mean, in a deep way, I sort of just. I. I sort of value the privacy more than I do sort of wanting to be.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Out there showing everybody everything I do. And then, like, I. I'd rather. I'd prefer to talk about, like, what I'm doing with somebody I know or with somebody I don't know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, rather than. Then I saw you do this and I saw you were there, and it started. It started to just. It felt weird to me. It felt weird to me that people knew so much about what I was doing, but actually.

Speaker B: Or thought they knew.

Speaker C: Exactly. So it's like I was showing you that little thing, but, like, that was Just a minor part of the story. Just, like, visually, it was cooler. You know, I actually really love. I love Instagram for what it sort of originated as was, like, just visual content. Yeah, I think that that part's cool, but I don't need to see people laying at a beach or whatever. Yeah, for sure.

Speaker B: I feel like these days, I. It's like, consume certain things, and, like, if you're really into, like, watches, for example, or cars.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's great.

Speaker B: Yeah. Because the algorithm just, like, feeds you

Speaker C: that stuff, which is great. I don't even know if I see probably 90% of the people I even follow anymore. I just see, like, my interest more. So it's like, mostly art.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker C: Some food. I kind of. Actually, I'm. I'm so deeply interested in food, but I'm also. I just don't need to see endless m. Pictures of food.

Speaker B: Um, sometimes you just need to.

Speaker C: The one that. I think the one that always gets me is, like, I cannot be on social media on Thanksgiving Day. Yeah, come on. Everybody knows what this looks like. You know, it's like that.

Speaker B: And, like, for the 4th of July, all the fireworks.

Speaker C: But I love when you. You find somebody that, like, has gone somewhere far in a way that you may have never even heard about or imagined, and then you discover this thing, and it's, you know, something that's right up your alley. So that part I really love in the visual aspect. Like I said, photography, art, uh, I love that.

Speaker B: Have you always just been into that?

Speaker C: Yeah, I've always kind of been into that side of things. Just out of a personal interest. You know, I. I've. Sometimes we try to tie it into, um, work, but, you know, we're not all the same, so we all kind of visualize things a little bit differently. But from my perspective, I try to bring that quality to it.

Speaker B: Yeah. It seems like there's this correlation between art and food. Like, a lot of chefs these days, maybe not like, three decades ago, four decades ago, but these days have, like, this art. Artistic side or, um, interest in art. Right. Like, do you think. Where do you think. I mean, I know at some point food went from being just like, this thing that we eat. Right. Just to live, to being, like, an artistic form of, you know, expression in a way. Right?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's definitely an expression. Yeah, it definitely reveals your personality and what you love, and it's in its sort of purest form. I, um, think making food is maybe one of the most honest and sincere forms of art, for sure. You know, it's because it's. You're doing it for other people. Most likely rarely are, you know, chefs getting credit for cooking for themselves. You know, just. There may be a part of it in the idea of what you want to make, but you want to make it for other people to enjoy.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Um, and as far as. I think people are starting to understand chefs more and under. Want to know a little bit more about chefs as opposed to. What I think you're referencing is like, chefs are behind the closed doors back in the back. It's like we're the, we're the help, we're the servants, where the people that are, you know, making your night, but we don't want to be seen. You know, it's like the image of a chef and is becoming sort of like, you know, more and more, um, something that people look at. You know, people constantly compare the rock star stuff, but I don't know if it's really.

Speaker B: There's this like, celebrity status for like, chefs these days where it's like, if you have a really popular restaurant.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, everyone knows you and everyone wants to come and see you and talk to you and.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, you know, you have these like, documentaries now and all these like, shows. And there's just so much in that scene, which I love to see it. But it's like somewhere along the way it became, like you said, like, just, you know, someone in the back just cooking to, you know, someone that everyone looks up to admires. Like, wow, you. You created a great restaurant. In a world where there's so many restaurants, like, you stand out type of thing.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think the personality of the chef and then it's a tough balance. And I think that, you know, John and I have definitely tried to like, move the other direction and sort of have, like, now the name of John and Vinny's is no more famous than John and Vinnie.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Which is important to us.

Speaker B: Uh, yes.

Speaker C: Um, because there's no reality in showing up at John and Vinny's and seeing Johnny and Vinnie in each location at all the time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and I think like, you know, Wolfgang Puck has this sort of thing where it's like, how's this guy everywhere? Like, is there. Are there a hundred Wolfgang Pucks?

Speaker B: You know, I had him on the show. I think I spoke with one of them.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I think like, somehow he is everywhere all the time. Uh, but he became. He's. I mean, he's one of the most iconic celebrity chefs. You know, I'm sort of on the forefront of it all, uh, with TV and, you know, doing, um, you know, CPG and, you know, all that kind of stuff, and then obviously having great restaurants. I think that that's something that maybe hard for a lot of these guys to balance these days is. Is being really great at restaurants and doing restaurants really well and running great businesses that are also received well by the public. And then being a celebrity chef is a very hard thing to do because they, a lot of times each take a lot of focus and a lot of time and attention from that individual. And regardless, you have to, you know, if you're a celebrity, you got to be on camera and you got to do all the interviews and the photos and all the things. It's like, you got to be there. They actually need you there.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: Um, and for a business, it's the same thing. It's kind of like they need you there. You need the input. You need to constantly work on systems and things that will enhance and make the business better for everyone, for the customer and for the employee.

Speaker B: Right. I want to talk about systems in a bit because the system at John and Vinnie's is one of the best I've seen.

Speaker C: We're always like, this shit's so unhinged.

Speaker B: Hey, it works, whatever it is.

Speaker C: No, no, we put a lot. We had a lot of great people. Um, and we, you know, we're, we're. I would say, you know, if you ask people that work with us, it's like we're just relentlessly on the gas, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, you guys are. And like, it seems. Seems like everyone's just, you know, I'm sure it's tough back there sometimes, but. Yeah, like, everyone just, like, loves it.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, the environment, it's still a restaurant.

Speaker C: You know, I think, like, no matter all the things that you do, in the end of the day, there's something that just like it needs to get done and needs to happen. You know, it. Like, we got to seat the table. They got to get there. Like the, you know, that moment that you. You can't predict of that perfect storm of things happening. You know, it's. It's. It's all of it. And then there's some days where things just flow perfectly and all the things are working cohesively. It's like you. You know, you know, we're. We're trying to study right now the. The sort of rate at which call outs happen. M. Um, so we start to kind of like, really analyze and pick apart parts of the business.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Is what we Kind of do is we start to like, extract it and sort of say, like, what's this one piece look like for us? What's that hour? What's the hour between 9 and 10 look like? Labor versus sales. You know, things like that, um, are all things that we, we never really focused on 15 years ago when we opened. 17 years ago when we opened Animal.

Speaker B: Huh?

Speaker C: You know, we were about just making good food and trying to have good service in a fun place. And very much of the spirit of the age we were at, you know, but now we're in this place where we have to keep these businesses going, and we've got a lot riding on it, investments, things like that. And, um, yeah, the systems are really, really what it comes down to how you can kind of take apart and analyze each part of it and say, how can we get better at this?

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: I think is really something we study now a lot is what we do is we take it out and say, like, this is this one thing. How do we get better at that?

Speaker B: Were you always, like, focused on? I feel like it's a very efficient system. Like when you sit down, uh, and it's not like this in a lot of places where, you know, you order and, you know, the, the, you know, the waiter or waitress immediately will say, well, we bring it out, like, as soon as it's ready. Not like in the order that you ordered. A type of thing.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: And that obviously is like a whole system that you've created. When. When did that. How did that idea even come to you?

Speaker C: Uh, it came to us really kind of like how we like to eat. I don't really want to wait, you know, drags you're waiting for. A lot of times, what you do, if you get these first, second, third course kind of things, you're waiting for actually a server to be engaged with your table.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And then to be able to fire, what they call fire the food or, or, or make, uh, the order start to get processed. Right. And if for some reason there's a little bit of like a snag they get. Their focus gets on a table that's got more wine on their table, serviced, asked for something, you know, I want extra drink, uh, dropping my fork, whatever it is, they get distracted. You know, anything that could potentially happen slows that process down. And we've all been caught in that. Yeah, that sort of thing. Where it's like, why is the food taking so long? Well, a lot of times it's actually, it's. It goes back to the control of the server firing and making sure the flow of your table is happening properly. So we put all the food in, and then the kitchen dictates as it. As it kind of needs to happen. Like, and depending on the pace of the restaurant, too, they will. They will sort of dictate when they call those things out. So if the restaurant's really full, they'll start, you know, they'll start putting things on back. And they know that they got to kind of fire that down the road. But it's really kind of in control of the chef on the timing stuff. Um, and, uh, you know, we're always looking at the bottlenecks there, too. Like, how does it. What does slow us down? What keeps us going? You know, what's what? You know, sometimes if you go in and it's really slow, you know, you could feel like that the food's coming too fast too.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: You know?

Speaker B: Yeah. But I think. I think my record time is like 20 minutes or something like that. Yeah, just like walking and eating, walking

Speaker C: out, which is great if you want that kind of situation. And then, like, sometimes people do want to take time and. And. And, you know, that's why we always kind of say it first. It's like, you know, if you do want us to go a little slower, let us know. You know, public announcement here. It's like, if you do want to. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Menu. Yeah. If you do want us to slow it down, we can slow it down for you. But. Yeah, but people, we kind of, you know, in a weird way in. And we've always. We've always talked about it as, like, there is a. There is this sort of diner aspect to what John and Vinny's is. It's all day, people kind of overlook the breakfast a lot. Um, press hasn't talked about it as much.

Speaker B: I have yet to try it.

Speaker C: Uh, you've yet to try it. People just don't, you know, the U Sealy, the pizza, the environment, all the things, like, kind of have really.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Overshadowed breakfast, but breakfast. It's an. It's a. The room is beautiful. During the morning, the light that comes through a lot of the rooms. Um.

Speaker B: Was that by design?

Speaker C: Yeah, by design. The architect that we worked with really likes. Loves the natural light. And obviously, being here in California, we get a lot of really beautiful natural light. So that part of the space is very, very soothing, very calm in the morning. The music's different in the morning. You know, we try to lean more towards jazz and nice, uh, you know, blues and things like That a little bit. And then the breakfast is. Leans heavy sort of American. It's pancakes, a blt. And it's kind of like the versions of. Of the wishy way the. The wish you. The way you wish it tasted everywhere. Yeah, you know?

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Like if you're going to get pancakes anywhere, if you stopped in anywhere, it's like, this is what I want to taste like. Uh, blt, same thing. You know, uh, we have a couple breakfast pizzas just for those adventurous sort of people out there that want to kind of share something. But it's a good breakfast to get slept on. I think, uh, it's.

Speaker B: Breakfast is my favorite meal of the day.

Speaker C: Check it out.

Speaker B: I gotta check.

Speaker C: Go check out the location. It's close. Yeah, it's good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, yeah, I think, uh, I think it. I think it's one of the. One of the better versions in LA for, for classic sort of breakfast and good, you know, a good room to have a meeting.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker C: I mean, on the weekends it gets crazy.

Speaker B: M. Yeah.

Speaker C: Especially towards that, like. Sure, yeah, towards that brunch hour.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: For people, people that know. They also know.

Speaker B: They love their brunch.

Speaker C: They love their brunch vibe, but they also love some people that have like the hack of John and Vinny's. What they do is they come in and they. Because we don't really typically, we don't really offer a brunch menu.

Speaker B: Yeah. Do they come in right before they cut off?

Speaker C: Exactly. They come in right before the cut

Speaker B: off, order the breakfast.

Speaker C: They order some breakfast items that they want to have and then they tie it in with some of the lunch items they want to have. And it's, it's pretty amazing to see people, people really go in like that in the morning. It's probably the only meal of the day after they eat.

Speaker B: Like, I mean. Yeah, you could really, you could really let loose there. Um, so I want to kind of take it back a little bit. Just talk about, you know, your upbringing in a way and kind of learn a little bit about what that was like because I'm sure that ties in a lot to what you're. What you're doing now. So.

Speaker C: Ah, yeah. Um, I was, I was. You know, my family is not 100% Italian, but my dad's side is, um, was raised by my father mostly. Um, Is that in Florida? In Florida. Uh, and grew up in a sort of, you know, environment that was. There was a lot of cooking. It, uh, wasn't always Italian American, but a lot of Times it was m. Um, There were things that I absolutely hated growing up, like broccoli pasta. Like, I hated it. And it's funny. My kids love it. I, uh, love it now, uh, you know, eons later. Um, so I was kind of raised in that environment. Um, and then. And then kind of the pizzerias and the Italian American food I ate out at night or after a baseball game was very much in lines with what John of Vinnie's does. One of my favorite places that I used to go to as a kid, uh, had lots of, you know, sports memorabilia in it. And it was like the old, like, T100 sort of wood paneling, like, basement vibe. Like that dark sort of corrugated mhm. You know, and just like red booths, just all the things. The red Coke cups. Like, it was. It was that. And I think when John and I and Helen sort of went to go do John and Vinny's, we were like, we got to steer this in a little bit of an art direction with, like, sort of the design and the feel, and, like, that's a good feeling. I like that feeling. But I just think it's been done so many times that we just wanted to kind of bring it into a new light, like a more modern twist to a more modern twist. But we didn't want the food to get too modern because.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah, we had done fine dining. You know, we had done. I mean. Well, we had done fine dining working for other people.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: And then ourselves, we kind of tried to, like, shake some of that stuff with Animal and Son of a Gun. And then we partnered with Ludo and Petitois, but Petitois, we really shook some of that out there too. But To a Mech was very formal. Um, and, uh. And I think when we came. When it came time for us to do John and Vinnie's, we knew in our hearts that we really wanted something that felt like us on an everyday.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, like, where would you want to go every day, all the time? Like, you could go to John and Vinny's and have 10, 12, 15 different kinds of experiences.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: With the food. You go in there and eat.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: You go in there in the morning and eat granola and go back in the afternoon and eat a, uh. A tuna Brentwood.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And. And come in at night and eat an olliolio, and you'd feel light on your toes still. You know, we could go the other direction and eat.

Speaker B: Totally. Would you say it was like a, uh, natural evolution or process for you as a chef to, you know, Kind of, you know, going through culinary school and then thinking, okay, I need to go and work in fine dining and get that experience to then coming to. Because, you know, a lot of, you know, you, you allude to like the diners of the past or like that vibe from the past. And those people are not classically trained chefs. They're just sort of, you know, cooks in the kitchen most of the time, I think. And so, um, you know, when you go to John and Vinnie's, you, you. The food is fine dining food. Like the quality of the food to me, to me, like.

Speaker D: No, no, no.

Speaker B: When I eat the uh, like the chicken cutlet for example, I'm like, I haven't had this at a fine dining restaurant, like this good of a chicken.

Speaker A: So.

Speaker B: So you get that like quality of the food.

Speaker C: Exactly.

Speaker B: But the vibe is like just, you know, you walk in as a hip hop music playing, you know, it's just super chill.

Speaker C: We're wearing T shirts. Exactly. Yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean I think, I think the fine dining that, that myself, Helen and John, we, we all experienced previously informed what John and Vinny's is, but we knew and, and still know how to shake some of the formality out of it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, you know, I could tell you a million things about the chicken cutlet that are the reason why it is, the reason why it is good. You know, um, I need to know how you. And then, and then, then there's reasons why it can't be good too. And like. Yeah, uh, I know all of those. And that's from just deeply being involved and studying it, you know. So like, you know, the way we. The, it's, it's the, it starts with the quality of the chicken. You know, um, we've gone back and forth on sort of the producers and stuff like. But it's always like some sort of organic air, chilled free range, you know, so you know, top tier of what you can buy in that specific, um. And uh, it's hand pounded. We've, we've explored machine and it's tough. It doesn't give us the same result. We're trying to just like, it's, it's all these like, you know, in life, it's like walking that fine line of everything, just trying to be like that, you know, perfect version of yourself.

Speaker B: Well, in a world where we're so consumed by like robots and AI and like the whole revolution, like, you know, the fact that pounding chicken, you know, just still done better by a human.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Which is one of those things where you're like, that would be the first thing to get automated. Yeah. And.

Speaker C: Exactly. And you're.

Speaker A: We are. I mean, we.

Speaker C: We do want to become more efficient.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And I think, like, we think about those things, but if it's not going to be a like for like. And if it's not going to go up.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's not going to say, hey, this is actually better or is a better version or it's an improved version. Efficiency sometimes, or even cost sometimes gets thrown out the door because. Because the quality doesn't end up being as good. We've experienced this with printing pizza boxes. You know, just like something so simple that people just look at and they're like, that's John and Vinny's pizza box. But we notice the color, the pantone color, the quality of the corrugated cardboard. Like there is intention behind every single detail of the. That place.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, everything we decided, everything, you know, placements, napkins, silverware, like, you name it. But the chicken cutlet in particular, I love the chicken cut. I love that you called that out.

Speaker B: It's my favorite.

Speaker C: It's my. It's my favorite thing to eat because I can eat them all the time.

Speaker B: You just don't have chicken like that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You kind of eat it and you're like, the crust of it is this fish, Is this chicken, like. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, it's thin. You know, the funny thing about it, I mean, because we're talking about the positivity of it and like, it's. It's really about like if they do it properly and it's like it's been. It's been pounded right. It's been breaded properly, it's been fried at the right amount of time. It's been seasoned well and sort of the garnishes is all at top quality. It comes out amazing.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But the other side is, is that. And we've seen this in experience and sort of. These are the sort of things that people don't really get to see or they do see them and it's unfortunate when it does happen is that like we over prep them and we pound too many of them and we bred too many of them. And weirdly, the. One of the little. The one of the little things that we noticed is that over time, if they sit for over a day breaded, that the, the. The breading starts to almost like cure m. The. The actual chicken.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker C: So it starts to dry it out. Yeah. And almost makes it in it like. Well, believe it or not, we'll even keep The. The meat, uh, like a pinkish color when cooked. So then people think it's underdone.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker C: Yeah. But it actually comes out drier. It's this weird thing that kind of happens.

Speaker B: Interesting.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's a little bit of parmesan cheese in the breading.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: And it makes their salt and parm. Right. So it starts to actually cure it and.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So we have to. It's a. It's a. It's a balance, you know, of, like, when to do them, um, how much to do of them. Because we always want it there for the customer.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: Right. One of our top selling dishes. It also translates into chicken parmesan for us. The same chicken cutlets.

Speaker B: Just. That one's my favorites too.

Speaker C: Yeah. If you really.

Speaker B: I have these, like, favorites that I always order. I'm like, one day I need to walk in and try something different, but it's okay. I love.

Speaker C: No, but that's what restaurants are there for.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker C: It's like you love it for a certain reason. It's like, I go to. I go to Houston Tolstone Restaurant Group. That's R and D. I go there all the time. It's like 90, uh, percent of the time I'm getting the French dip.

Speaker B: You know that French dip. That French dip is so good, it's insane. I don't know how they do it. And they've been consistently good for.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: A long period of time to know

Speaker C: how they do it. I can kind of figure it out,

Speaker B: but the consistency is, like, not something you see often, you know, like, my, like my parents generation used to go there and like, you know, should. When they were younger, you know what I mean? It's like.

Speaker C: And then our kids all go there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's. It's, uh. To me, it's the greatest American restaurant that we have.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Does the American fare that people want, and they do it at the highest level and they execute it at a very high level. I've gone, you know.

Speaker B: Have you had the Hawaiian show?

Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, I don't.

Speaker A: I've.

Speaker B: You've gone a lot.

Speaker C: I've got a lot.

Speaker D: I study it.

Speaker C: I really do.

Speaker A: John.

Speaker C: And I study it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, I think I go more than anybody, though.

Speaker B: It's nice.

Speaker C: Yeah. I'm there all the time with my kids. I know they're like the rules. Like, the other day I went, yeah. Uh, John and I had to go do a job up. We had to go cook a dinner up in Napa.

Speaker A: And.

Speaker C: And before the server could even say it she was like, sir, we asked. And I like literally just took my hat off. I was like, I come all the time, you know, I was like, I know some of their rooms, they ask you to take their hats off. Some of them, they don't. Yeah, every now and then. It just depends. They go back, they've gone back and forth. Ah. I like, I like when you go back to a place and you can see that they've, they're, they're toggling these ideas of um, how to make it better. There's still like a working, even them. Yeah, it's like, yeah, I've seen them. I don't know if you go enough to notice this, but they, they season their fries with this, this like special seasoning. And then they, they started offering it on the side. Mhm.

Speaker B: Like when you get the.

Speaker C: And now sometimes. Yeah, and now sometimes you have to ask for it.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So they kind of are like, they, it's, it's like, do we do it or do we not do it? Do we like it better like this? Do we like it better like that? It's sort of like you have to, you have to be obsessed with it to kind of go through all those steps. And I think that's kind of what we are. We're just sort of obsessed with making this thing like as great as it can possibly be.

Speaker A: Okay, listen up, it's 2024.

Speaker B: Are you still using your personal phone

Speaker C: number for your startup?

Speaker A: One of the most common founder mistakes

Speaker B: I see is using your personal phone for business.

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Speaker B: So you and John met in culinary school?

Speaker C: John and I met in culinary school. And after that. 99.

Speaker B: 99. And then you guys just clicked and you started working together.

Speaker C: We clicked. We were. We clicked and we were competitive with each other. I think that's something that a lot of people also don't talk about, is that, like, you know, John and I are, you know, a healthy competition with each other. You know, like, it's. You know, we always kind of want to push each other to be better, uh, to think better. Um, and I think, like, that was part of our relationship, but also part of the rise to. To the, you know, our sort of success is. And sort of people are like, how do you make it work so long? Well, I think it's. I think a lot of it is. Is just that. Is that we've had the same ride

Speaker B: and, you know, I'm assuming you guys wanted the same thing. Like, I think that sort of.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think. I think at some sort of base level. Absolutely. You know, we. Absolutely, like, we wanted to open a restaurant, and we wanted to make it great. You know, like, we wanted to do things that were, like. Felt like us. And, you know, um, every decision, like a plate, a silverware, a thing, a glass, you know, we have different ideas about what we like, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Paint, color, whatever it may be. And it can be a push and pull. There's a. You know, there's good discourse with it. It's like, it's. You know, sometimes it. It gets, you know, it's. I think as we've gotten older, we tried to, like, extract the emotion out of it, not get too tied to something and sort of be open to all the ideas and ways. But now we incorporate so many other people in. In sort of the ways that we kind of have to do things. Um, but, yeah, I think it's like we. We had the same rise. And I think, like, we. Money was never a thing where we got sort of, uh. You know, I came and invested this much money. You came and invested this much money. It was sort of. Everything was equal all the time. And I think, like, money is one of those things that's a great divider for relationships, no matter which way you cut it in life. And, uh, we've never let that get in the way.

Speaker D: How.

Speaker C: You know, how. Because it's been the same all the time. It's like we're all Contributing. We're all trying to do this. We're all pushing hard. And like, we. The money doesn't. We try to never let the money get in the way. And, and the, uh, money comes and goes. You know, it's like it. There's good years, there's bad years, there's. There's ups, there's downs, there's. There's a lot of it. And I think it's nice to kind of have somebody else to go through it with, you know, now we have Helen involved. We do have a financial partner, um, that helps us get everything off the ground. Um, and, uh, we've been able to stick with that partner too for, uh, over seven, 18 years now.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker C: So almost. So John and I knew each other for a few years, then we found this partner.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well. So you guys worked at restaurants and then at some point you started.

Speaker C: We worked at restaurants together in Florida. We worked at some together and some separately. We were both working two jobs and going to school.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, you know, we had to pay for everything on our, um, own, uh, apartments, extras, whatever we were doing. Uh, our parents weren't floating us. And we were still having a good time though too, in between it all. And I think like, we bonded over having some similar stuff in our backgrounds of childhood. We grew up surfing, skating, you know, punk rock music, hip hop. We were just like into all that stuff. Uh, both growing up in Florida, opposite coasts, similar friend groups. Um, and, uh, so we bonded over that stuff. And then we both loved cooking and love service, love the restaurant culture. Uh, all that stuff that was kind of the intros. And then, um, we also. I think the other thing is too, is that, you know, in our early age, you know, when we were in, you know, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, is like we were full time work, full time school. Yeah. It was not. It was relentless. And we kept that attitude up all the way until, you know, now it's like we just. We just are constantly at it, you know, we don't really. I mean, I think you can see from our timeline here, just in la, what we've tried to do, you know, from starting the catering company to starting Animal to then Son of a Gun to then Petitois John and Vinnies. Then we did Kismet, kismet. Rotisserie familia we threw in there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Which, uh, was fun. And then. And weird. And then, uh. And then we just have kept at the John of anything and we've shaken off and. And separated from some of the Other partners, you know, from Ludo and from. From Kismet. And, uh, we've kind of taken a turn. You know, we've closed Animal.

Speaker B: Was that a matter of just wanting to focus on what's working best?

Speaker C: It's a matter of. In relationships, you know, I think relationships are hard, and they proved to be hard in tough times.

Speaker B: Yep.

Speaker C: In the pandemic. Challenged everybody in the world. And then in our small little world that we have, um, it challenged our group, and we had some real different views on how to handle things and ultimately broke the relationships up.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, uh.

Speaker B: But it seems like that was also.

Speaker C: I think we were. We were ultimately, like, we felt good about it because we did it. And. And if this was the better route and the partners felt like this was the better route, then let them go do that.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And. And. And see the other. See the other lawn, you know, like. Sure. Like, if you don't like the way we do things and you think somebody else is going to do it better, then I don't want to stop you. You know, I don't want to make it hard and painful. So we just did it. We separated. And, like, you know, I. I honestly, like, wish them the best. I hope that they're doing well. I think that they're. Obviously, we think that they're very talented and smart individuals, you know, with why we got behind them, you know, uh, believed in love, the food they make, all that stuff, so. But I think now we do see that as we keep getting older. I just turned 45 the other day. You know, it's like, you only have so much time to do this in the game.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and, like, how do you. How do you set yourself up in a way where you're not, you know, 65 and broke and in debt and you've closed all your restaurants? And I think that that's a story that you hear too often in m. Our industry. And I think back to that thing about it's still a restaurant. No matter how many stories you hear or shows you see or podcasts you may hear, it's like, in the end of the day, a restaurant still is a restaurant, and there's this exchange that needs to happen. Right. And doing that dance, you know, some people, you know, they dial it in. They control the hell out of it, you know, and, like, they. You know, especially in the fine dining side of things.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, it's very. Those environments are very, very, very controlled. Whether you like it or not, it's like, up to you. But. But There's a reason why the dance seems so seamless and why it's practiced so well. It's like they allow the time and the space and all those things. It's like we kind of try to, like. Like I said, we're on that sort of. We lean it towards. Like, somehow there's some of this, like, essence of fine dining mixed into this, like, diner, you know, and like, it's. It's still a restaurant. There's still going to be problems. There's still people. There's still all these things that are involved in it.

Speaker B: And then the concept of Helens, that. Does that help in terms. I mean, you know, you hear like, how alcohol really helps, you know, when it comes to business and keeping things going. Uh, is that part of the reason or you just wanted to have, like, this, um, like alcohol element to it?

Speaker C: Helen. Helen was more. Because I would, you know, I would say Helen because she was. She was our main person. She became a partner because she was our. Our main person at. She kind of really brought animal into its sort of, you know, heyday. You know, uh, she was the manager there and then sort of showed how much she could, you know, command in sort of the wine side of things and then sort of the service side of things. And then we moved her into a director of operations role. And then at that point she wanted to, like, do something more.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And we were about to open the John and Vinny's, and we kind of had the space and we knew we were going to do something with it. And. And, uh, you know, you need. You need wine storage. Right. And we were like, hey, what if we take this? We have a. A permit there at that space that allows us to do, you know, sales. Yeah. Or to go. Right. For. For. For beer and wine. To go. And we sort of propose the idea to her and she was, you know, lucky for us. She was excited about it. And, um, does it enhance the restaurant? Absolutely, because we have such a strong mind in the wine world as part of John and Vinnie's. Um, and she, I think overall enhances sort of the John and Vinny's experience and she brings a lot to the table. She has a lot of great ideas and she's, you know, uh, I think a real pro, you know, and I think, like, beyond the wine, um, operationally, you know, all those things, I think she really enhances. Enhances all of that also. Nice to kind of bring the female energy into it for sure, and love and respect her, uh, all the way through and through. Is. Is it, uh, financially that much better. I don't. You know, it's hard to say. I think like, I think she was on the forefront of sort of these wine clubs and uh, doing the wine, you know, sort of memberships, uh, and things like that.

Speaker B: It certainly attracts a certain audience too.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's cool. Like she was on the forefront of all that stuff and. And uh, has been. Has been good for us. Um, but it goes in waves to people like the way depending on trends and things like that and you know, covet obviously and sort of inflated a lot of that because people were at home. Um, but it's not. It wasn't just a sort of financial grab by any means. Um, you know, this is our. John and Vinny's in Studio City is our first one with full alcohol. So we're seeing sort of what that does to. In terms of how it works in service, how we work it into the service that, you know. You know, that side of things is like sort of a hurdle we're getting over right now. We've been open for three weeks and yeah. Sort of just understanding how it is to the timing of making cocktails for the table. It's like you don't want that food showing up before you get your first drink and. And that. And how long they take and what's the things that people are gravitating towards with drinks, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Obviously. Like it's really interesting going into sort of the mindset of how people order now is different than the way they used to now. It's like it's people like will strictly order off of someone else's order or.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, how that, you know, tick tock things showed. Whatever it showed you. Or Instagram.

Speaker B: You gotta go here and get the apparel spritz.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Kind of wild. It's like. It's like not just decision making on your own.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, you know, so like seeing what's trending in here and what's, you know, time of the year, seasons, things like that. So she has to predict a little bit of that with the wine buying and like and now with the alcohol. So there's some stuff that we're still learning now with that. But um, I think alcohol itself helps restaurants more than wine and beer do. I think if in terms of sales and spirits. Yeah. In terms of money. I think like I think that those things help probably more than wine and beer does. Yeah. We haven't done too many bars. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, I know. That was the first thing I noticed when I walked in. I Was there on Sunday, the Studio City. And like I was like, oh wow, there's a whole bar here. Like.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, I don't think the other ones have like.

Speaker C: No, they don't.

Speaker B: There's like bar seating at the Fairfax location, but that's just for the food.

Speaker C: Right? Fairfax. You can sit in. In front of the like. We call it counter seating. Counter seating for, for Fairfax, Brentwood and Beverly Hill. Madera Heights. Oh yeah, yeah. Slauson. Mhm. Um, we switch that to the expediter being on the outside of the counter now at Beverly Hills and then Studio City. So we're within that. Like I'm saying we're, we're moving ideas and.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And toggling sort of these things that we kind of like how can we make this better and more efficient and.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: What's better for sort of the management and, and how they use the space and work within the space and then the customer.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And how they use it. I know that we, we took away the counter seating. Some people love the counter seating. Some people would be like, I don't want to sit at the counter. It's too hot near the pizza oven or.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Whatever it is. It's like they go back and forth

Speaker B: on that all day if it's me or like if it's me and one other person. I always love sitting at a counter because you just get a different experience.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Sitting in front of the. Especially like at a sushi bar or something.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's a little more entertainment. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker A: Um.

Speaker C: Visually appealing.

Speaker B: Yeah. So at some point, you and John, when you made your way to la. Um, do you guys. Were you guys the personal chefs or Harrison Ford? I think I read something like that.

Speaker C: No.

Speaker B: Um. Are you just cooked for him?

Speaker C: No, we, we had. No, it's not fake news. No, it's not fake news. Um, we. So we moved out here.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: On a whim. We were living in Vail, Colorado. We had followed a chef out there that we sort of loved and admired and respected. And he was the fine dining chef at a restaurant in a hotel. And we were living there and we just didn't love it. We didn't fall in love with it.

Speaker D: Um.

Speaker B: It's a different lifestyle up there, huh.

Speaker C: Different lifestyle and wasn't what we were looking for at that time in our life. It's a beautiful place. It was incredible. It's gorgeous. It was like. But so expensive too, even at that time.

Speaker B: It's a nice place to visit, but I don't know about. Yeah.

Speaker C: And Expensive to visit, but, uh, just, I mean, pristine, you know, it's. It just one of the most beautiful places ever. Uh, and we knew it wasn't for us and it wasn't going to take our career where we wanted to go. So we stayed for his key season, helped him do the restaurant and. And learned a ton. He was incredible chef, great technician, uh, great composition of food, you know, beautiful stuff. And John's aunt lived in the Valley, and he was like, I think we can go crash on her, you know, couch. We were 21, 22 years old, and we can get out there and she'll let us stay there and kind of, you know, get us set up. And, uh, this was when you had to, like, fax resumes in and we. To date myself here. So, uh, John and I were sending our resumes out together to people, and we had. We had, like, almost locked in. I had some friends down in San Diego, and we had locked in this job as sous chefs. We were looking kind of to step up our positions in kitchens, and we locked into this sous chef roles in this, uh, in Rancho Santa Fe. M. Very wealthy, nice area of sort of San Diego County. And, um, I think it's San Diego County. I know somebody's gonna be like, it's not San Diego county somewhere out there. Yeah, it's somewhere down there.

Speaker D: And.

Speaker C: And then the guy came in, like, literally one of the first meetings, and he wanted to do, like, sort of, you know, Asian fusion, let's just say. And the first thing he said to us was, like, okay, we're gonna have, like, you know, this. He went through this, like, roll call of, like, things he wanted on the menu. One of the first things was, like, breadsticks. And I was just like, what does this guy mean by breadsticks? I was like, you know what? I can tell right now that this is not going to be for us. Yeah, I don't want to do it. So we just, like, we threw in the hat before we even got going. We were like, we shouldn't do this. You should hire other people. This is what we want to do. So we came back up to LA and sort of. We were, you know, we were broke. And John, the whole time, you guys

Speaker B: are on the same page. You're like, this isn't what.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, we were on the same page. We were broke, jobless, and like, we were aiming actually at, uh, San Francisco. We were gonna leave la. We were like, you know what? Maybe LA is not for us. And we're gonna, like, maybe go and Then there was an ad in the paper, I think, and, uh, it was for a fine dining restaurant in Beverly Hills. And we sent in our resumes. My facts made it through. And they called me back and I was like, hey, did you get my. My buddy's fax too? He's like. He sent in his resume as well. And they're like, no, we didn't get it. Send it through, send it through. And they're like, your partner grew up in. Or you're the guy who you're cooking with. Like, grew up in Ormond Beach, Florida. Like, my wife grew up in Ormond Beach, Florida. And he's like, come in for the interview. We both go. And I think, like, at the time, for these people, it was like, you know, really strange.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Ah. And it was like two kids showing up for one interview, and they wanted the same jobs and wanted to work together. And. And it must have been weird, you know, looking back on it. It must have been like, this is strange. Like, I've never even heard of this before. But, like, when you think about the

Speaker B: camaraderie of a kitchen, like, kind of makes sense, right?

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely does. But I don't think to them in the moment, it was. Yeah, well, no, they were just. I think they were just really surprised that these two kids wanted to work together, uh, in the same restaurant, the same hours, all the. Not. Not the same stations, but we're willing to kind of do whatever.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And we took the interview and, uh, we had seen the product they were working with and did a trail. And I think we went to the farmer's market, and the chef and the sous chef, or the. The two coach, they were co chefs. It was Ben Ford and Govan Armstrong. And Ben Ford is Harrison's son.

Speaker B: I didn't know he was a chef.

Speaker C: Yeah, chef and a great person. And, uh, basically they were kind of coming off of 9, 11, sort of, you know, downturn of economics and all that stuff. And, uh, they were trying to sort of revive their lunch business and they needed cooks to do that. And there was one other guy, and there was John and I, and we basically ran lunch service and, you know, we were performing at a very high level. We kept everything. We held it down. We made sure the quality was great. We had all the integrity we have now. We always kept that with everywhere we worked, you know, um, and basically, uh, walked in one day and they were like, we got bad news. The restaurant's gonna close. And John and I were like, we have no money.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: We have nothing. Like, what are we gonna do? And. And Ben was like, I'll help you guys out. I'll get you guys some work, this and that. And he basically kind of like, sent us to all these places, like, where it was, like, people that he knew, clients he had, you know, maybe picked up jobs that he didn't want or weren't financially enough money for him to do it and was enough. We were just looking to, you know, like, uh, if we can make, you know, 100 bucks a day, 50 bucks a day. We were like. We were good.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And so, you know, eventually we made our way to his dad's house, and his dad liked us and kind of had other work on the side for us and kind of like, would keep us busy doing things like moving stuff around or helping him out, doing whatever. And we were open to it. We were kind of just like, hey, whatever we can do to make some money here and get back on our feet. And, um. And I think that along with. At the same time, we had met and gotten introduced to some people that wanted to bring us to do television. And that part started to get weird for us, I think, like, we got. I felt like we kind of, like, got pushed into it a little bit, and we did it because we were young and a little bit naive and didn' know what was what.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And, uh, we ended up gotten. We ended up making a show with the Food Network and hated everything about it. Really hated it.

Speaker B: I feel like most people would be

Speaker C: like, wow, like, yeah, I know, I know.

Speaker B: Like, you made it like, you know.

Speaker C: I know. And at an early age, we were 26, 25 years old, and it was kind of like, it was just too much too soon. We just didn't want. We didn't want the. I think we realized that we didn't want the fame and the attention, and we also didn't want to be. They were trying this kind of, like, reality based.

Speaker A: Why did they.

Speaker B: Why do they want you guys to do it?

Speaker C: I mean, because we had gone on. At one point, we had cooked for the producers of Iron Chef out here, and they just really, like, they love this. They're like, oh, yeah, it'd be cool if we brought you guys on Iron Chef. And we were like, cool, let's do it. And we went out, we were like. We were just like, whatever, you know, like, whatever you wanted. And, uh, we. We did Iron Chef, and I think it got good ratings, and Food Network liked the energy we brought to it. And we lost by one point, supposedly, you know, debatable yeah. Uh, I think they weren't ready for two kids to come up there and just smack down one of their Iron Chefs.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And uh, and then, um, yeah. So out of that came the, came the show. They, they ran a production company over to LA and. And uh, basically kind of felt like a forced hand. You know, it was like you were, you were then sort of being told what to say, what to do, where to go, and there's no like in kitchens, it's kind of like this thing where you kind of can't reenact.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: What happens.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: It comes off so bad.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You could, you know, when you're like, we're not actors. You know, I'm not an actor and I don't want to be an actor.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: You know, and like, that's not why I'm in Hollywood. I came here to cook, you know, and like, it all was just really frustrating and uh, it pushed us to the point where we were like, we're just gonna go, we need to open a restaurant. We just need to do what we really set out to do.

Speaker B: But like, being where you were before, you know, you mentioned the restaurant closed and you had no money to having the show. Mhm. Did that, did that serve as like a platform for opening up your restaurant?

Speaker C: Well, we, we were catering for a little while in between there. So it was like the time between not having money and like falling out of the job at Chadwick, which was the name of the restaurant that Ben and Govind had together. Um, between that time. That was a couple years.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Before we got the show. So we were saving money then.

Speaker B: So the idea was that we were

Speaker C: like, literally we were saving everything we could. We were.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, you were gonna save up and just invest in yourself and not have an outside partner.

Speaker D: Mhm.

Speaker C: And then there was somebody that we were talking about opening a restaurant and, and this guy that we had met, and I won't name his name, but this guy we had met was like the typical Hollywood vibe. Right. Like, big producer, lots of money, lots of houses, all the shit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And he was like all invest in you guys. And we were looking for a small raise and in, in hindsight now to what restaurants cost and what we were looking to open Animal with. And uh, we were going to match it, you know, with our investment. And, and um, and this guy was like, you know, I'll invest in you guys, I love you guys. And he had used this for catering and basically sends us a contract that was like, I'm gonna own your Life. Like, like, yeah. Ah, we had this lawyer that was like a friend of a friend, like, had him look at the contract.

Speaker B: Can you look this over for a second?

Speaker C: Yeah. And he was like, I can't. I can't let you guys sign this contract. He's like, you literally have to tell this guy to go off.

Speaker B: Yeah, it's that bad?

Speaker C: It's that bad. And it was like. Was weird because it was like we were close to the sun, you know, like, we were. We were right there. Like he was like already a catering client. And uh, and. And we were like, hey man, our lawyer is advising us not to sign this contract. And he's like, went to the whole.

Speaker A: The whole thing.

Speaker C: It's like, you know, straight out of like, you know, out of the movies where it's like, I'm gonna ruin you. You're never gonna work in this city again. And all this. And um, and it was threatening, you know. But then. And then we turned around and like another catering client was like, you know, John had gone up to his house to go do a job and had told him what was going on. And uh, the guy was like, I'll give you guys the money.

Speaker D: And.

Speaker B: And who was this guy?

Speaker C: The guy, our now investor.

Speaker B: Oh, oh, I see. How did you guys. You had to also cook for him?

Speaker C: Yeah, we had also cooked for him. It was like all these people came from our building of basically like passing around our phone number like, of. John and I were like. We were cooking from the farmer's market, Whole Foods. You know, we were shopping at ah, you know, all like Restaurant Deep. We were doing everything. We were just kind of pulling from all these sources and we would just show up at your house and just like cook all the food right there on the spot. A lot of times we were going to. It was like personal chefing, but catering.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: We weren't prepping anywhere else. We didn't have a prep kitchen. So we were just.

Speaker B: And what kind of cuisine was this? Different.

Speaker C: Everything. Whatever you asked us to do. Yeah, literally.

Speaker B: And so what, like, where did the idea for Animal come from?

Speaker C: The idea from Animal came from, I think the fine dining side of. Of things. The less ordered items on the menu, you know, like when we were working for Michelle Bernstein in Florida, like she always had foie gras and sweetbreads and every now and then she'd bring other. Some other sort of like, you know, wood pigeon in or like something exotic. Whale. It seemed exotic. Um, and uh, you guys thought we're

Speaker B: gonna least ordered items.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Well, it was like, it was like the least ordered, but also the, the uh, the things that took a little more care to cook. Wasn't like cooking a steak filet, you know, it's like, yeah, you cook it in a pan, cook it on a grill, you could sous vide it if you want, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like it's, it's, it's kind of straightforward. Right. It's like. But taking this like organ meat and turning it into something delicious and, and desirable is much harder to do and much more intriguing and, and uh, we love that side of things.

Speaker B: So did you think that it wasn't ordered as much because it was. Not that it wasn't something that people wanted to eat, but because it wasn't like prepped as good as you could make it?

Speaker C: No, I think it was just because. No, I think Michelle did.

Speaker B: I mean like, it's just not popular.

Speaker C: Well, yeah, it's not popular. It was like it fell out of fashion is what it was.

Speaker B: You know, like the least popular items to make a restaurant.

Speaker C: Yeah. Why did you invest in. Well, it wasn't really even pitch like that. It was like we had the idea kind of in our heads. Like we didn't have a deck, we didn't have anything like that. It was like we were just like, hey, we're gonna open a restaurant. We're gonna make our food and do it our way and, and make it in this space. And um, we're gonna spend this amount of money and like, are you in or you out kind of thing. And uh, you know, not everything was that crazy, but it was like when you think about the lineup of the menu, if you had to put all the players in place, it was like. Yeah, we were talking about like chicken livers, pig ears, sweet breads, foie gras, you know, we had a steak on the menu. You had to have. We had something, but it was like it was covered in, you know, truffle fondue and like it was like everything was just like it had a lot of personality.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: You know, like you were going there

Speaker B: because you knew it was different.

Speaker C: You know, like it was like what's, what's not being done in la? What's not feeling like, you know, it was like there was like. I felt like there was like an outline when we got here. It was like chicken steak, pork chop. Pork chops were like the thing. It was like everybody had a pork chop on the menu. Um, love a good pork chop, but it was like, I felt like it Was a lot of times people like, I could cook that at home, you know, and like, I just, we didn't want to get into that conversation. It was like, you aren't most likely cooking sweet breads at your house, you know.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: You're not making foie gras loco moco at your house. You know, it was like, it was just, it was like we knew that there was something there to be creative with and we could take a chance, we could take a risk. The rent was low, the build out wasn't too expensive. We had the time and the energy to do it, to put ourselves into it 100%. I think, like John and I were talking the other day, I was like, I don't think there was a time for the first two and a half years where one of us wasn't in the restaurant, you know, and that made a difference.

Speaker B: Yeah. And so animal you had for 15 years.

Speaker C: Right.

Speaker B: Which is a long time for any restaurant.

Speaker C: I mean, and then a restaurant like

Speaker B: that, that, especially like that, like we

Speaker C: thought we'd have it for five, we'd pay it, pay off the debt and it would be like onto, um, the next thing.

Speaker B: But that happens so much now. I mean, I see so many, like, restaurants that invest so much in like, beautiful space, like, beautiful menu. Like, it's like, you know, popping, it's doing great. And then after a few years it's like, well, it just, it had its time and now we need to move on because people, maybe it's just like

Speaker C: people get bored or move fast.

Speaker B: People move very fast.

Speaker C: And especially if you're not that kind of like everyday kind of place in your, your, your food, uh, has more personality to it. I think you, there's a, there's a, there's a clock on it for sure. And it's usually a shorter clock than those that, that make a broader stroke at it, you know, for sure. There's, there's just certain things that people just love to eat more often.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, and that's just the way it is. And then I think when you get into the trendy stuff, it's like people go to those restaurants and they may

Speaker B: be great when they're feeling adventurous one day, yeah, I'll go try it. But.

Speaker C: And then they go, but they want to try that place. They want to try your place, then they want to try their place. Yeah. And then, then there's now so many. And then the press moves so quickly. It's like in these, you m. Know, guides and things and sheets and people and ratings and stuff. And like it's constant because they need stuff to write about and then you get, sometimes you go and they can be amazing and sometimes you're like they just needed something to write about so they just threw this place in there. You know, it's like I think, I think it's like, I think like it's hard sometimes. Like where's, like where's the credibility in the, in that, you know, like what's their experience? You know, like I don't know if I've trust someone that's been like living outside their parents house for four years on like writing guides. Yeah, I just don't know. I, like I, you know, I, I, I always love like an older, you know, little bit grumpy food critic, you know. But they're kind of going out of fashion now.

Speaker B: They've been around, they've, they've, Yeah, I

Speaker C: mean listen, like when Irene reviewed Animals, she didn't review it, you know, that well. Jonathan Gold definitely set us into another level.

Speaker B: I was about to ask if Jonathan Gold.

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean I think Jay Gold like he, he put us on the map in la. Oh yeah. Like straight up he was, he was the guy who was like these guys are, are doing it and doing it in a different way and it's good for L. A, you know?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: And I think that that's what it was too is like as much credit as we get for really kind of like changing you know, the food scene or something like that. It's like also like the, I don't think it's really changing it, it was just sort of like, I think it was giving a lot of confidence back to the city, you know, that's really into the younger cooks and to the younger people out there that, that had the ideas and wanted to try something themselves. It's a little bit different, you know and I think like it gave, there was a good run, you know, of LA restaurants that were come like LA was, it was like on the west coast it was LA and Portland that were really kind of shaking things up and people were traveling here and coming here to kind of see what was happening.

Speaker D: I mhm.

Speaker C: Think the pandemic made us a little bit safer. Yeah, I think like I think what we're seeing right now is a little bit safer. But we also have had a huge surge in like really high end fine dining here which has been great. I think good for the city. There's some places I can't even, I haven't even been able to get into myself, you know, Hyatt, though. I'm trying to get in there. I've been trying to get in there forever.

Speaker B: It is on my list.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's on everybody's list. How can you not like eight seats in there? I don't know, Maybe they'll hear this and maybe I'll be able to get in. I've been dying to get in there though, but, yeah, stuff like that, it's just like, um, you know, but I. I mean, in the end of the day. Yeah. Proud of the city. I'm. I'm psyched to be here and, and psychedel. See everything that's coming out of it. And like, hats off to all the people out there just opening new places.

Speaker B: It's opening.

Speaker C: It's hard.

Speaker B: It sucks when you see, like, we had Chef Tim Hollingsworth on the show and Odium is. Odium's closing, which is sad because it's one of my. Was my. One of my favorite restaurants in LA too.

Speaker C: And, and he is fierce talent.

Speaker B: Oh, yeah.

Speaker C: Fierce talent.

Speaker B: Like, that's why it's such a bummer

Speaker C: to see that dying breed. I say to some of these guys that, like, worked in these restaurants at that level for that long, like, they just. People just don't have the dedication like he did, you know, he's, you know. Yeah, Tim's. Tim's one of my favorite chefs. Love what he does.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker C: Great chef. Incredible. I saw him the other day too. I'm sad to see that place go. Um, I'm sad to see anybody's restaurant close for sure. Anyone. I don't care which. I don't care if it's like some little corner Salvadorian restaurant or. Tim Hollingsworth.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It. It, like they all mean something to a community and to people. And these people put money and time and invested their life into this stuff. And it's like, I think the public sometimes, unless they've worked in restaurant industry, it's like they don't know what goes into it and what people pour into restaurants. I don't care what level you're working at or what level you think they're working at. People put a lot into them, you know, and it's hard to see them go. And it's hard to see people lose their money and their, Their livelihoods and. And investments, you know? Yeah. In a place that they call home. It's hard and.

Speaker B: But it's like, it's still so admirable that you still see people doing it, you know, like when, you know, how hard it is and you know, how likely it is to have to close because it's not working out financially. It's not working or whatever, you know.

Speaker C: And honestly I think everybody in the business on, on our side of things, operators and investors and, and chefs and people that are doing it on their own. Like I think that they, you know, the margins are tighter, it's harder to run, labor costs are up, supply chain issues still happen. You know, they're still going on from the pandemic. Uh, the squirreliness of, of goods, you know, going up, going down, all over the place. Dairy, meat. Yeah. Uh, you run into anything that has, you know, right now chocolate. I don't know if you've been reading chocolate.

Speaker B: Really, I love chocolate.

Speaker C: There's, there's a shortage because. No, I know, but watch, your chocolate's gonna go up and people, you know, all the time it's like people, people are like, oh, they're charging more, they're ripping us off or it's like no one, I don't think anyone's ripping anyone off anywhere. Restaurants and food and groceries should all be more expensive. They all, everywhere. Not just my stuff, everybody. Like the margins are so small for everyone out there doing it. And uh, yeah, chocolates is going to be the new one that you're going to see. You're going to see like higher end, better chocolate. You'll see go up a lot because I mean there's a shortage because the crops, because of, of weather patterns and climate change and all that stuff. It affects, it affects the crops and then shipping costs, more money. You know, it's, it, it, there's so many factors into getting that thing in front of you. You know, to get in the chicken parm in front of you, to get in the chocolate bar in front of you. Whatever it is, making juice, I don't care. It's like food space is an incredibly hard space to work in.

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Speaker B: At what point did you Decide you want to. I think you guys bought a supermarket, a market, like a grocery market.

Speaker C: We acquired Cookbook during the pandemic from the original founders. They moved to New York and there were. They had sort of had their time with it and we wanted to sort of see it through and, and see, uh, see if we could kind of grapple with some of the challenges that they had. And, uh, we loved the place. We didn't want to see it go anywhere. And I think the community loved it so much that we didn't really want to see it go anywhere. But it's. I would say that it's challenged us more than what we thought.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: It's been a real run for us, honestly, to be, to be 100 transparent with you.

Speaker B: And so you bought one location and then expanded.

Speaker C: They had two and expanded one into Larchmont. Um, and it's almost like a, you know, the clientele's so different on Larchmont than it is on the east side where Highland park and Echo park are. And adjusting the needs and the desires from each has been really challenging for us. Uh, staff stuff's been a little bit hard for us there. It's been, it's been a tough go, to be 100 honest with you. I mean, it's a, it's an amazing place. Yeah. And an amazing sort of concept. Uh, grocery business is hard, I think, like, why you don't see across America and around the world, you know, these little markets everywhere. Yeah. That are like, this is because they're, they're consumed by, you know, big grocers. You know, big grocers have such an upper hand. The volume in just the amount of stuff that they can offer in the space. You know, and like, for people, convenience matters and like, they don't want to go five places to get things. They don't want to shop here to get that shop there to get. Such a very old world mentality. Yeah. And we love that about that place. Um, within that store you can shop for definitely to cook for yourself and for your family or your friends, or throw a great dinner party. But it's all really high end stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, so how often do you buy a bottle of 25 vinegar? You know, it's, it's, it's like you take that.

Speaker B: I mean, Erewhon's kind of working, I guess.

Speaker C: Different. Different. Different because it's like this is, like this is, this is kind of scaled down to like. Yeah. Very more niche. It's more niche. You know, Erewhon's getting They're going a little bit more. Right. Uh, they're not by any means generic. They've maintained their integrity of who they are. They have organic. I was at Air1 last night. They have, they have, you know, all the things. But it's more. If you see the stores, they're more and more prepared foods, more and more hot bar soups, sushi stuff, juice is huge for them.

Speaker B: A reason for you to keep going at a m. More frequent.

Speaker C: Things you consume.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: In a day are dominating the space. Things you consume within a couple of days are dominating the space. The things that you buy and sit in your pantry are less and less. They give less and less space to those.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: The other side of Erewhon too is they have all that, um, the supplement stuff.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Which is just wild. So it's like, it's like a health food store mixed with, you know, convenience in, in. Somewhere in there. They're, they're using good product and, and they have high volume. The stores are big enough where they can like pump through the volume. But it's like every year I live by the one on Beverly and like, it's, it's more and more that space gets taken up by things that are. You eat that hot bar food right then and there and then you'll be back tomorrow. Yeah. Right. So it's sort of like this grocery store that we have is. Is more of the other side of it's niche.

Speaker B: It's like, yeah, maybe you have a dinner party or something and you want

Speaker C: to flower from Maine. That's, you know, a mill that, you know, no one's even heard of. And, and sea, uh, salt from Trapani in Sicily and, and you know, it's like, it's, it's niche, niche, niche, niche, niche, uh, stuff.

Speaker B: I feel like a lot of times some of the things that you really want to do may maybe. May go against like the best business practices or like, you know what I mean? Like, yeah, you want to just experiment with things, but maybe people aren't, you know, used to that or it's not quote unquote, like good for business in, in, in a sense. Like, do you, do you grapple with that a lot?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. I mean, well, especially with like something like cookbook, I mean, you know, animal, son of a gun. They weren't the greatest businesses in the world.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker C: You know, but they're novel content. Yeah, they were. And, and I think like a lot of people don't know too. Is that like. I think within just their success there is Success within just doing it and making it. You know, I think like, artists, musicians, people, poets, whatever.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, within just doing the act of it, taking the courage to. To. To do something and put it out there. You know, it's like there's success within that, even though if it's not met with, you know, huge success on the sort of financial side of things or rave reviews or, you know, whatever, A, um, big, bigger audiences or whatever it is, it's like that sometimes comes secondary, you know, for sure. But, like. But as you get older and you do need more stability in your life, as you have more responsibility, you do have to think about that balance. And I think right now what we're seeing and feeling is that John and Vinny's is that perfect sort of balance for us, where it's like we're doing what we want, we're able to work at it, to improve it every day. We're able to create great spaces in design and provide great places for community.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And then make money doing it.

Speaker B: Yeah. So why not double down all.

Speaker C: Well, it does all of the things, you know, it scratches all the itches. You know, it's like. It's like they're. I, um, got ideas for, you know, like, if I could find someone with, you know, $200 million that just wants to keep opening and doing ideas that I could keep moving on from them, I would. I have ideas forever, you know, of. Of opening stuff, but it's like they cost so much money and time to do, and, you know, there's. There's waiting and holding patterns that. Within these things. It's like Studio City cost us, you know, a ton of money, but it also. We. We. We had that project going for two and a half years.

Speaker B: I know.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Uh, that's such a great location, man.

Speaker C: It's a great location, but it took us forever dealing with the city and the neighborhood, and, like, it was really a real grind. You know, halfway through, like, you know, people came in and stole all the piping out of it.

Speaker B: Um.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's like people just. They don't. You know, like you said, it's like a Twitter account isn't going to tell you all this.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker D: You know?

Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, that's. Yeah, that's crazy.

Speaker C: Yeah. There's. There's a lot of background in it. Yeah. The neighborhood fought us hard on the alcohol and the hours we were gonna offer it for. It's like. It's so silly because I was gonna

Speaker B: ask, you know, the locations, like, how. Because you guys are in like these really interesting locations. All of your places of Vinnies, but even like the cookbook and all that.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, it's like, it's like places that maybe are. I don't know what the word is, but they're not like the places that all the restaurants are opening necessarily. I know Echo park now and like Highland park, they're like gotten popular, obvious places now.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Um, but like, you know, not to like, but like the area in Studio City that you're in, I always thought was had so much potential, but like there's maybe like one or two restaurants on that street. I think it's Tahunga.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: And uh, More park, right?

Speaker C: Um, exactly.

Speaker B: And like, and like. And then now I drive by and I see John and Vinnie's. I'm like, that' so cool.

Speaker C: Because.

Speaker B: Yeah, I wasn't expecting that. And yeah.

Speaker A: You know.

Speaker C: Yeah, like I think we like to be a little bit unexpected.

Speaker B: But uh, then you get, you know, issues with perhaps like nimby's. Right. People that are like, no, I don't want that in my backyard.

Speaker C: You said it. You said it. They're there. There's a lot of them over there. Um, but then there's also just as many people that are behind it, which feels great.

Speaker B: I mean who doesn't want to be walking distance from John and also is

Speaker C: gonna, you know, it's gonna add value to their homes and stuff like that.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker C: But being able to put that as part of the portfolio of the neighborhood. There's a great school next to it. Um, I think it also within what we do at John and Vinny's too is that we are trying to improve neighborhoods. We are trying to make beautiful spaces that anyone can come to. Uh, it's welcome to all ages. You know, it's like it's, it's really there. And that's what uh, like restaurants, you know, I think at some level can and should be too is like, you know, they're there for the people surrounding it. First and foremost. The community. Yeah. You know, and then, then at large you get some tourists and things like that. But you know, like the Studio City location, I mean in all honesty, like we're there for the neighborhood only really. You know, it's like that's not a tourist destination.

Speaker B: No.

Speaker C: You know, Fairfax. Yeah, we got a good mix over there because you got the Grove down the street. You uh, got Fairfax and what it

Speaker B: was plus when you guys opened. Yeah.

Speaker C: And it's shifting a little bit right now. Fairfax is going to Try to find itself again. I think, like, after supreme left Animal

Speaker B: closed, you think it'll find itself in streetwears or like.

Speaker C: I don't know if it's going to take a streetwear turn. I.

Speaker B: Maybe a restaurant turn. I mean.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Bad mash right next to you guys.

Speaker C: Bad mash. I'm. I'm wondering. I. I'm wondering. I don't know if it's going to take a turn towards like, the Abbot Kinney vibe. Like a little bit.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Bigger, uh, brands coming in, national brands,

Speaker B: the Aesops and the.

Speaker C: And I don't know if it's going to kind of bring that, uh, grove culture down that direction. I don't, I don't know that. Or if it's, you know, I don't know if the landlords are, are getting too greedy and asking too much for their spaces because a younger person needs to feel confident about the risk they're about to take financially. Yeah.

Speaker B: Ah.

Speaker C: You know, so I don't know if some of these spaces only feel good to. Asap or feel good to probably, you know, like.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Oh, uh, yeah, I'm. I'm, I'm hoping that. And some of that stuff fills in. But, you know, like Fairfax, we definitely had like, um, you know, a, um, probably a 1520 in the dining room at all times. Was. Was tourists.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, but Brentwood very much a neighborhood, uh, Ladera Heights, very much neighborhood. Beverly Hills were kind of on the, on the outskirts of it. We're not in the center. We're not like Rodeo and Beverly, you know, so it's like we're, we're more on the local side.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: So same thing. Like John and Vinny Sauce is really. It's a neighborhood restaurant. You know, like, it's, it's. I think in the beginning days, those first couple years, like, we were definitely like, people were treating us like a destination. People were coming from all over, which is amazing, you know, but like, we knew we could bring it into other neighborhoods. The, the food that we offer is, is everyday stuff, so.

Speaker B: And was that like, uh, you know, the tourists and all that, Was that from, like, word of mouth, just people telling each other, or was there like this like, big like, media PR situation? No, we found out about it.

Speaker C: We've never had pr. We've never. We', know, I think some days maybe we wish we do did. And then some days it's fine. You know, like we've gotten.

Speaker B: Hopefully it's always good pr. Not.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I mean, listen, there's bad stuff. I Mean, it's part of the journey. You know, there's always going to be someone out there that hates you. It's like, I think at a certain point if you, you get enough people that you know are against you or hate you, it's like you've done something right. Probably.

Speaker B: Yeah. You know, they're taking the energy out of their day to hate.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, exactly. So we're okay with it. It happens, you know, and then like, then there's the California side of things where there's, you know, the, the employee friendly state makes it hard. I mean, uh, you know, it's like you look at somebody the wrong way and you're in a lawsuit, you know, kind of thing. And that's an unfortunate side of, of doing business in California. It's kind of like a pay to play kind of state.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, we're also in one of the largest economies in the world.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: So there's, there's this constant back and forth on this stuff, you know.

Speaker B: Do you guys have plans to expand out of California?

Speaker C: Uh, we've been trying.

Speaker B: New York maybe.

Speaker C: We've been trying. We've looked at New York, we've looked at Miami. Um, we actually had some stuff lined up in Miami that fell through. What about Chicago? We might come back around on Miami. Yeah. Don't have any full confirmations on that, but that might come around this season. So. Yep. Miami. Um, and then Chicago. Love Chicago. Haven't given it much attention. Love it though.

Speaker B: I was there like last year sometime.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: For first time. And I was blown away. Yeah. I mean.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Fulton market district.

Speaker C: Cracking.

Speaker B: It's great.

Speaker C: Paul Khan's a good friend of ours. Love him. Love what he does. Love what he's done.

Speaker B: Doug Goat out there.

Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. Stephanie, she's great. Uh, you know, the guys from Oshaval and all the stuff.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, sick. Yeah. I mean, it's a great food city. Great like Americana, you know, and like, I mean, and also it's like a perfect marriage.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker C: Art, architecture there. Exactly like.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, not to be missed, you know, like, it's the whole city. The whole city's great city. I haven't been in like probably like two years.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, a year and a half.

Speaker B: I could see doing, doing really well there.

Speaker C: Yeah. I think, I think we see like John and Vinny's could be kind of anywhere, you know, like really could. It's like, it's, it's the, you know. You know, is it the next sort of version of I always joke around is like Is this the next version of Olive Garden? You know.

Speaker B: Yeah. Well, that's the thing.

Speaker C: It's like, it's like, are we. Could we be.

Speaker B: You know, do you want to be though?

Speaker C: I don't know. I don't know. I don't, you know, I don't get to. John and I don't get too far ahead of like, it's like in the moment. We're really in the moment kind of people.

Speaker B: Yeah. But I think the.

Speaker C: Right now what we really want is like, we really want to be with the five stores we have here. We really want to be as good as we possibly can.

Speaker B: Yeah. That's the thing, I think, like scaling sometimes too fast. I mean you see so many restaurants.

Speaker C: I've seen it.

Speaker B: Yeah. The quality just is not there anymore.

Speaker C: Yeah. And I think what happens is they get, they get an investor or an investor investment group, like a franchise. Then there's the demand of like they have to return the money.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker C: Right. And they have to open so many so fast because they've, they've hedged all their bets on it. And then it's like, it's really hard to. I'd say the thing that we're focused on right now is, is, is the training side of things. Because training programs and training and communication of training is, is such a big thing and focus of ours because it's, it takes time and it takes thoroughness and I think like we really want to be good at it and uh, be better at it than we are. It's like a lot of times with restaurants and like, hey man, two guys just quit and this person called out and you know, like, I'm desperate. I need to just get people in there. And that's the part of restaurants where you're like, you know, changing that side of things is. It's hard to do. You can't. Controlling human behavior is very hard. And I think like the, the call outside of things and managing that, our managers managing it and all that stuff. So it's like, how do you have that balance of like. Well, what about if you overstaff? Well, if you overstaff and then everybody shows up, somebody's gonna get cut. And then if that person keeps getting cut and then, you know, it's like

Speaker B: an impossible math problem.

Speaker C: It is really, it's really hard. And that's why I said it's like in the end of the day, like no matter how much you hear about it, we talk about it, through it, expose it, it's uh, it's. It the reality is in real time. These things do happen and we have to deal with it.

Speaker B: I know you guys are really, I know you're really focused on John and Vinnies and you know, you recently had cookbook and all that. Is there anything outside of food that you want to do that you really. At some point?

Speaker C: Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah. Um, I just, I've been, I've been recently, um, I've been looking. My, my. One of my grandfathers was a collected cars and I've been. I've always had the bug in me a little bit, you know, like, I've always loved it, you guys.

Speaker B: Does your family still have his car collection?

Speaker C: No, I have one that he bought um, in the 90s, late, uh, 90s, early 2000s. He bought a 57210 and I got it basically when he passed away. And uh, I've been toying with redoing it, mixing it up and just kind of having it for, for a Sunday ride. And also I've always, I've always loved old, like the old square body Chevys and Fords and um, been toying around with the idea of getting one of those. I don't want it to be. I don't want any of them to be too perfect. Not like a show car.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Like something I could drive around and if you, you accidentally parallel parked and banged into me, I wouldn't be pissed off about it. You know, I don't need. I don't need to create a frustration in my life.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, so I like, I'm interested. I love old cars. I love old things. I love. I love antiquing. I love vintage clothes. I love old stuff. I love things that have been worn. I love things that have like a ton of life and texture in them. Um, like I just. Something about that I just have always been drawn to ever since I was a kid. What do you think?

Speaker B: Why do you think that is? Because I, I think like I, I'm the same way, but I'm life.

Speaker C: I think you feel it in it.

Speaker B: You think it's where we are in, in the world or in how. Where. Like where we've come with maybe technology, social media. I mean we always, we could always like blame that obviously, but consumerism, like something about the good old days.

Speaker C: Do you think people always reference their earlier days as like better times, but maybe it was just childhood in general,

Speaker B: you know, but like if like Chevy back then, I, I don't know if they were thinking that they were going to create this like memorabilia, uh, work of art. Type thing. They were just creating the best car they can make for the time. And then now we look at it like, wow, you know, because, I mean, everywhere you look is like a Tesla on the road. And then once you see something different, you're like, wow, that. That's different.

Speaker C: Yeah, it's like I kind of, uh, I kind of. Some guy like, told me, he's like, he's like, you know, a long time ago, he's like, man, these things are like driving like an ice cream cone around. Like, it's like anytime you have one in your hand, somebody's gonna look at you. You know, it's exactly. It's this weird thing. And like, I, I think people just appreciate. People do appreciate. And like, I think what you're kind of getting at, if I'm hearing it correctly, is that like, things that were made well with intention.

Speaker B: 100.

Speaker C: You know, I think there's so much out there in the world. I don't know where that's fast fashion.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, manufacturing consumer goods, whether it's through Amazon. I love Amazon.

Speaker B: But like toys, like when I was.

Speaker C: Yeah, all this stuff, plastic.

Speaker B: I remember having like these like Star wars toys.

Speaker D: Right.

Speaker C: Nothing's around anymore.

Speaker B: And then I, I saw one recently, like a younger cousin of mine. I'm like, what is this piece of like plastic thing that, you know, like they were made so well, like all the detail.

Speaker C: The detail now, mass produced stuff, uh, artistry. I think, like, people can see and appreciate those things. And you get. We have people in the world that are concerned will always continue to try to hold on to these things. And I, I think, like, I lean towards loving those people and things more because I love makers. I love makers of things. I love people that like, do things with their hands. And like I said, somebody does that. You can just tell when something's made and done with integrity and intention and in thought and care and whether it's a building, a car, a piece of furniture, artwork, whatever it is. It's like, I think, like, I just naturally lean towards it. I have an eye for it, I like it, I'm drawn to it. Um, you know, and sometimes can feel, you know, I think like, I don't know, sometimes it can feel elitist too. You know, I think like, there can be this side of it where it's like, you know, there's like, there's taste in it, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. It's like, you know, that's.

Speaker C: There's a care between care and it's intention.

Speaker B: There's a difference between Being snobby and picky and like.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: Elitist and, um, to like, appreciating good quality.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: I don't.

Speaker C: I, uh, don't like expensive things for just being expensive.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker C: Like, I don't need. I'm not the type of person that, like, I. I like Gucci, but I don't. There's certain things that they make that I really love. I love some of the old. Yeah, I would. I would probably. You won't see me show up in the full. I mean, listen, some people love it makes me feel confident. I get it. It's like. But it's. I don't. I don't like it to show that

Speaker B: there's the subtle things.

Speaker C: There's money in it.

Speaker B: It's the subtle things that are like, oh, uh, that's cool. Like, yeah, you know, he's wearing like

Speaker C: a Gucci socks or something. I'd rather pay. I'd rather pay 2 here. Like, I'd rather pay 200 for a vintage shirt. That's perfect for me. It fits me in a way that feels really good. Than I would like a $200 Gucci. That's just what I value personally.

Speaker B: Yeah. Ah, yeah.

Speaker C: And I'm not saying everybody should do that. That's just me.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: Uh, you know, like, I like old books and I like, you know, I just. I love a book still. I sell, you know, I'm, um, so one of those people. Like, I just. I have a huge cookbook collection. Do I use it to cook out of. No, but I love like, like looking at it and reading about it and like, you know, understanding the story. I love in food, in the food space. I love the, like, the historic. I wish if I could take more time in my life to do something, I would study more history of the food ways of, like, the way things ended up, where they are and why they're there and how they got there and who brought them there. And.

Speaker B: Yeah, there's.

Speaker C: There's so many stories behind all of that within the recipes of, uh, like just the ingredients alone, how they ended up somewhere. You know, I think that that stuff's really interesting. And then I'd say art is probably my other big interest. Um, and then I take a lot of paintings.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker C: I'd say as a medium, painting, you know, I love sculpture too, but I say I'm drawn to painting. Um, abstract and figurative, you know.

Speaker B: But like, like, look like. Like appreciating paintings or actually painting, like.

Speaker C: Oh, no, I don't. I don't paint.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um. I paint with my kid.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, he likes to paint, um,

Speaker B: coloring books and stuff.

Speaker C: You know, he likes to know. He likes to like, paint. Paint. He likes to really paint. Oh, that's great.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: But I think he likes painting because we have paintings in the house and I think he just like, is drawn to it and he likes art class and he like, he's like a maker, a doer. He's like one of those people that likes to, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah. You got to do everything in your power to not have him lose that.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker B: Because that is such a special thing.

Speaker C: It's so special. Yeah, he like, he really loves it. If I'm like, hey, let's go out and do this. He's like, I'm gonna do it. Like, he likes to dirt one of them, one of the other one doesn't. You know, they're like, I want a dirt bike. I wanna, I wanna make paintings, I want to go skateboard. Like, I love that side of being a child.

Speaker B: Get off your phone, man.

Speaker C: Child. Yeah, that'll always be there, you know, and it's like technology is a part of their life. It's not that it won't be, you know, it's like. Yeah, I'm not one. We're not one. We're not parenting like that. But it's like, it's, it's in their life, but it's like it can't consume their whole life. It can't just be like video games, iPads. It's like, I'm not trying to, like, not pay attention to my kids.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, but I'd say art, Art is the other thing I'm kind of passionate about and into, um, any like, specific

Speaker B: artist or type of art.

Speaker C: I'd say abstract, you said. I'd say probably one of my Rothko maybe. No, I love, I mean, I love a Rothko. Um, I've been lucky enough to go to the Rothko Chapel for a wedding, which was incredible.

Speaker B: Um, that's in Houston. Houston, that's right.

Speaker C: That was a long time ago, but it was great.

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, that's the very minimalist. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Beautiful.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: I just think the art. I don't know, art sometimes, like, it does a lot for, for some people and does nothing for other people, you know? Um, but I love that like, works of art can draw so many people in, whether they can collect it or not. They just appreciate it, you know, I love that you go to the Met, you go to, you know, you go to the Broad, you see these lines of people. And like, it's amazing that like, you know, I've actually wanted to go see the Mickalene Thomas at the Broad. I've seen the banners up, down, up and down the road.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Looks uh, cool. She's a great artist. Probably. Um, one of my favorite sort of modern sort uh, of contemporary painters is this guy named Lens Gur.

Speaker B: Okay.

Speaker C: Love the work. Fantastic painter. Um, hard to buy the work, hard to get the work. Um, but it's beautiful stuff. Um, and has like a old Eastern European feel to it. Um, yeah. Somebody that I know personally here in la. Adam Alisi, great painter as well. Big fan friend.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Um, you know, um, Jonas. Back to John and Vinnie's. Jonas Wood and Shiokusaka have art in our restaurants and all the John and Vinnies. Chio Kusaka makes the sconces that are on the walls.

Speaker B: Okay. Yeah.

Speaker C: After the first one we learned we have to move them up a little higher because people want to touch them all the time.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: You know, people just don't even know that's art.

Speaker B: That's not just.

Speaker C: It's real art too. Like she's uh, she's one of the best sculptors, uh, ceramicists that are. That are in the world. Um, so shout out to Shio. And then, and then uh, Jonas, her husband is amazing. Contemporary painter, artist. Um, you know, he's. They're both represented by some of the biggest galleries in the world and just.

Speaker D: But.

Speaker C: But they're great artists and then more importantly they're great people, you know. And John and I and Helen have been able to kind of uh, foster relationships with them over the years and like they become good friends of ours and. And. But there's so many. There's such a huge community of great artists here in la and um. But Jonas and Chio are closely tied to the John and Vinny's world because they are kind enough to help us get their works into the. Into the restaurants. Um, there's always like a basketball. Mhm. Painting or drawing in the John and Vinny's. And those are a reference to the old pizzerias that we used to go into with all the sports memorabilia. We just did it in a minimal way and focused it really just on Jonas's basketball sort of artworks that he does. Um, so if you look at Jonas Wood's sort of work, he's, I'd say more known for his plants, still lifes of uh, and interiors. Um, but we were really drawn to the sports stuff because it really reminded he. He does drawings and paintings of old sports players and. And, uh, basketballs and stuff like that. And, like, just always have been drawn to it, and it. It works great for us in. In the restaurant as a visual, for sure. And he knows the architect, so it's all this huge tie in, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker C: Um, and, uh, so Jonas always has a basketball in the John and Vinnies. And then Chio, like I said, does all. Does all the sconces with all those etchings in them. If you see.

Speaker B: If you have to pay closer attention.

Speaker C: Yeah. Pay attention to him. Because there's. They're all different, and in each store they're different. There's some repetitive sort of, um. Maybe some, uh. Like, I think, like, you may see a witch in two different places on some of the ceramics, and then you might see, like, sort of her line patterns that she does. But, like, they're all original pieces. None of them are manufactured, so they're all handmade.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: Yeah. It's beautiful.

Speaker B: Yeah. I love that you're marrying all this stuff, the art, the food, the community, the culture. Yeah. I think, you know, I can't think of a better restaurant that's doing that.

Speaker C: Thank you. Thank you for that. Uh, and you can feel it. Like I said, it's something. You can feel those things. They're all done with integrity, and they're all done with sort of intention and all. All for someone else to enjoy, too, as much as we enjoy doing it. They're all for you to enjoy for you. For you. You know, like, literally, it's like we, uh, make it for you to enjoy. And it's cool when people get it and they see it, uh, you know, and they see that, like, oh, shit, this chicken cutlets a little bit different than those other chicken cutlets I eat. You know, it's done with a ton of integrity.

Speaker B: When I find somewhere I really like and like, I love. I just. I don't really. I. I like exploring and trying new things, but it's like, I just want to keep going back there.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: And experiencing.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's cool. I have. I mean, we're all creatures of habit, you know.

Speaker B: To certain extent.

Speaker C: Yeah. To a certain extent. I want to try new stuff, but.

Speaker B: Well, kudos to you, sir. Thank you, Vinny. This has been an absolute pleasure, man. I wish we could just chat all day. Yeah, it's been wonderful. Thank you.

Speaker C: Appreciate you. I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: Thank you.

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