Episode #38 David Burns chats through the holy grail of developing a new brand or product range.

Speaker A: This episode of the Food Mentor Podcast is brought to you by DJB Food Group and Creme Design, Australia's leading product and brand design agency. Partnering with new and established brands, entrepreneurs and food and beverage businesses of all sizes, the team helped develop, market and distribute new brands and product ranges into retail. In 2026, the DJB Food Group brand portfolio will achieve $200 million in retail sales. For all the detail, visit djbfoodgroup.com

Speaker B: hey everybody, David Burns here, your host at the Food Mentor Podcast. And this is our first podcast for 2026. Hope, uh, everyone had a fabulous Christmas and New Year, even though that seems like such a long way away now. But welcome back. I'm in the PO today on my own. Actually I thought I would do a little 15 or 20 minute episode on the topic of developing a new brand or a new product for retail. I uh, speak to a lot of people and this podcast sort of lays down the foundation of what are the key, the key principles and the key guidelines to really, really optimizing your chances of getting it right from, from the get go. So um, and at the end of this I'll talk about an ebook that I developed over the Christmas period which uh, everyone is welcome to have and we'll talk about that at the end. So developing a new product or a new brand or both sounds really simple. Obviously is no secret that some brands do exceptionally well very, very quickly. I've been lucky enough to be involved in a number of those in recent years. Years, um, and a lot really struggle for a whole array of different reasons. So this uh, this little uh, session here on my own, talking a lot. You'll be sick of my voice at the end of this podcast, but let's go. So there's, I think from the outset there are three, three sort of buckets that lots of information and detail fall out from. One of them is, uh, be different and stand out. We'll talk a lot about that in a moment. The second one is, ah, you know, really, really be in vogue with consumers either currently or, you know, in the near future. And the third one is in uh, this food and beverage industry, be delicious. Now while that might sound ridiculous, it's actually something that not enough people talk about. You know, your food or beverage product needs to be such that people say, wow, that is amazing. I'm going to tell my friends and I'm going to go and buy it again. So they're the big three big be different, be in vogue with consumers and be delicious. But there's a little Bit more to it than that, as we know. Before we get into the detail, there's a really important component. So this is sort of the first, the first heading, if you like, and that is crafting your vision. So I think lots of entrepreneurs, small to medium businesses, even large businesses, kick off a, uh, product or brand development process without really truly understanding what the vision is. So what is the vision? So what is a vision? I guess a vision is really trying to understand what's going to be at the end of the rainbow for you over whatever period of time that might be. And obviously it doesn't always have to be a pot of gold necessarily. So not everyone kicks off a brand or a little business to create world domination and that's absolutely, totally fine. A lot of people kick off a business to create some freedom for themselves or supplement income in an additional way, and that's totally fine too. But I think it is really important to really understand what it is you're actually trying to do at the highest level. Um, how fast do you want to grow? You're always going to be involved in this specific sort of product area that you're in now. Am I going to have range expansions later on? Are they going to be in the same category? Are they going to be in, in different categories? And all of these types of topics. And I guess ultimately these decisions create, um, a plan. So it's much easier to have a plan or strategy of what you're doing if you sort of have an understanding of what the future might look like, what your vision is now. Obviously not easy to have a concise vision of what may be three, five or 10 years down the track. But it's good to have an idea even though that may change over the journey. So that's, number one, crafting your vision. And sometimes people need help to do that and that's totally fine as well. So what does a, what does the future look like and what are you trying to do? Number two, and my favorite is definitely being different and standing out, but not so different that no one is going to understand what you're trying to do. The buyers don't understand, the consumers don't understand. It's way too niche. It's totally very different. Chocolate coated crickets, for example. Um, but you know, you don't want to be so different that it's alienating or people don't understand what you do. And I think, um, you know, natural human behavior is actually to blend in. Natural human behavior is not to differentiate and stand out. And you know, you need to be a bold individual to really stand out. So we're talking in every single way. We're not just talking about the product, we're talking about the brand. How you go about marketing your business as well, which we'll talk about a bit later on. A really good example here and I will mention a few case studies as we go through this little journey here around uh, Nothing Dips. So everyone would know Nothing dips now in March 2026, in a couple of months time and uh, next month, in fact it will be four years since the launch of Nothing Dips. And I'm just going to talk for a minute or two about how that journey came about and you'll be able to understand how that brand has been so successful so, so quickly. So Hayden and I, we stood in front of the dip fridge in middle of 20 and we could see very clearly that every dip looked really very, very similar. Highly graphic. Everything was in a pretty much a 200 gram plastic tub. Almost everything contained preservatives which helps extend the color and uh, and the shelf life rather. And um, yeah, everything just looked, you know, exactly the same. It really did. And so we looked at each other and suggested that we should have an attempt at trying to do the opposite of all of that. So the idea at the time was a delicious dip range in a paper based tub. And that was it, that was the simple message. I should add that the majority of the dips in the dip fridge, this is back then, um, you know, were quite average in taste as well. So we'll talk about flavor and taste uh, later on as well. And as you know, a lot of you would know 20, um, 25 last year, nothing was Australian, um, Financial Review 100 brand. And the growth has just been insane. Exceeded everyone's expectations in Coleswool with Aldi good, uh, independence around the country, exporting to Singapore and all out of a, you know, a very modest fan, a very modest manufacturing facility, uh, with Hayden and his family and his team up in Kyneton, which is about one hour north of Melbourne. Um, and it's just been an absolute brilliant case study because this topic we're on now is being different. This is an absolute classic, absolute classic story of being different and standing out, but not so different that people don't know what you're doing. It's still a dip range. The dips are absolutely delicious. There's a few unique flavors as well. But the real killer started with the paper based hub. But the quality of the dips, um, is outstanding as well, it's got a great following. Sort of young mums wanting to do the right thing for the health and their family and the planet. So it's just been brilliant. So be different, stand out. But not so different that no one else understands what you're trying to do. Number three is the consumer, obviously, or maybe not so obviously. I think this is a really interesting one. Um, a really great way to understand whether your idea, your brand or your product is going to resonate with consumers. Obviously get into the supermarkets, have a really good look around. That's the best free way to understand what is in vogue and more importantly, looking at what's happening right now to understand what could be next. Obviously we all understand and look at the trends, the historic trends and what's happening at the moment. But you know, that's not really enough because looking at the trends and what's happening and what has happened, you could argue that is too late. So, um, a really great way to understand the consumer is, you know, bounce your ideas off distributors, retail buyers that, you know, well, family and friends, and overlay that with, you know, what is currently happening, what stage of the trend that you're looking at is the trend at, is it early, is it mid or is it too late? And how many competitors in that space and get a really good understanding of, of um, how your idea may play out in the eyes of the consumer. The other thing that's really important with understanding the consumer, it's not so much these age and gender. It used to be, you know, mid to late 20s, 80% female, 20% male. It's not really enough these days to understand will your product and brand resonate with consumers. It's more about their lifestyle and their choices and their family set up and where they live and what they like and what they don't like and why, uh, and potentially, you know, based on that, what they could enjoy that they currently don't know about. So I think there's a piece of work here, understanding the consumer's lifestyle. Um, you know, does mum get up in the morning, go to yoga, come home, make the packed lunches and then take the kids to school and then what does she do? Really getting into the detail of um, of the consumer's lifestyle and where are they at in the, in the cycle of, of their life and, and how, and how do they shop and how do they think? Um, really, really intriguing, um, but not enormously good complex to find out some of this information. So that's number three, the consumer. Number four is all about the timing. The timing. The timing is really critical. In fact the most important part, assuming you have a great product and a great brand, is the timing. What does that actually mean? I'll give you another example. So I'll go back to the Dip. So the Dip, the nothing dip brand launched in March 2022 and it is soon after the supermarkets stopped issuing plastic bags. So the focus on plastic waste or saving plastic waste was, was ripe at the time. So it was a really good time to launch a paper based dip tub. Um, absolutely no doubt, no doubt about that. Um, and there's a saying in the timing piece. It's a terrible saying, but there is an element of truth in this and that is that if you're not first, you might as well be last. I got that from David, uh, Andrew from Naked Life. And it really is quite a cruel saying, but there is some truth in that. So uh, timing not too early, where no one's going to understand what you're doing or no one's going to really sort of care too much about what you're doing and not too late, whereby uh, there's a lots of competitors and it's going to cost you a fortune to market your brand. So somewhere in the sweet spot there. Another example, recent example would be Pistabella which is a, ah, pistachio spread that I'm a partner with. And that's been another um, another example of great timing. This was one of the early adopters on this pistachio, uh, merry go round. Uh, it's in Coles now in the spreads are. And you know it's no secret that that spread in particular has uh, has made a significant inroads into the growth of the overall spreads category in the last, in the last six months, six to eight months just again just comes down to absolute perfect timing. So that's number four, the timing number five must be delicious. Your food or beverage product must be delicious. And that people listening in might be thinking to themselves, yeah, well isn't that obvious? Yeah, sure it is absolutely obvious. But I go through the list of um, some of the brands I've been involved with in the last 24 months to 36 months, the brands that have been successful. Part of the formula is having a product where people taste your product and go, that is insane. And they tell their friends and that is how you create, you know, some serious loyalty around the product itself. So nothing is an absolute classic. That a unique feta, uh, and cracked pepper which everyone raves about and that flavor doesn't actually exist. By any other brand, I mean most of the dip fridge is hummus. As everyone would know like 30 plus percent of the dip sales are hummus. The chickpea based, um, so that's a great Pistobello is another classic one. There's a chocolate and pistachio and hazelnut swirl now which is uh, it's just in, it's just insane. I really, I really don't see you know, the pistachio spread little segment going away anytime soon largely because it is just um, a cut above the rest of the spreads in the category when it comes to indulgent flavor, um, remedy even going back um, in the remedy kombucha days like they, you know, it's a reduced sugar, good for your gut health but it's actually a great tasting drink as well. Similarly with David at Naked Life Non Alcoholic Beverages. They are excellent flavor profiles that he put an enormous amount of work into to, to make them taste as close as possible to um, a cocktail but with no alcohol with all the botanicals. And um, I've spoken to David about the pain he went through developing those flavour profiles. So flavor is really, really, really key and arguably not enough discussion or thought goes into the flavor of uh, food and beverage products that are created. And it is very, very, very important. And yes it's totally obvious but I have seen and tasted uh, beverage products in particular that had fabulous branding but were basically it was like drinking terps out of a can. Seriously. And I think in the early days of the health food movement, you know the primary focus was the health and the functional benefits of a product but the flavor, the flavor profiling was, was missing in action. And similarly with the plant based meat or the fake meat movement, whatever you want to call it, you know one of the, one of the demises of that segment was, was the lack of flavor to be honest with you, and expensive as well. So there you go. That's really, really key flavor. We spent a lot of time talking about that but it must be delicious. Moving along to number six, brand and purpose. So your brand is uh, really really key. It's the enduring part of uh, of what we do in this game. It's the, is the piece that people remember and the word purpose. So just talk about that for a moment. So you know, every brand really should be doing something for either the planet or the people. It's as simple as that. The days of having a protein bar that has this functional benefit and tastes better than that one, ah, are well and truly gone because that's not how you tap into the consumer's heartstrings or their emotions. It's, it's really, really the method to get really intertwined with the emotion of the consumer and really get them latching onto your brand.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: Partly because if you've got a great product, but more about the story that comes with it and what you're doing for the planet and the people. And again, nothing has done a fantastic job there. Paper based hub, um, reducing 300 tons of plastic from Australian supermarket dip fridges by 2030. And ahead of that target fabulous brands like give a crap toilet roll. Thank you water. Uh, and the list goes on. The brands that have made a significant impact to the, to the planet or to raising funds for communities in need is uh, is supremely key. Number seven. And this is the part where you know, a lot of brands do trip up or don't understand or um, even brands that I've partnered with four or five years in still don't understand this part. And it's number seven and it's the commercialization or the finances of your business or the economic viability of what you're doing. So there's a really, there's a really um, a few key components here. So first of all for those that don't know, we're down here in Australia, I'm in Melbourne and certainly in this part of the world, largely because of the enormous uh, geography we have, for every $1 cost of goods including your packaging equates to $4.50 to $5 retail sale price. And that assumes that uh, you know, the brand owner has adequate margin to end up with a profitable business. So $1 cost of goods, $4.50, $5 retail sale price, um, and there's lots of margin, uh, given away along that value uh, chain journey. So the distributor, the retailer, the logistics, the warehousing, it just goes on and on and on. Um, and look, uh, not a lot of brand owners know this or do this, but certainly the margin, the gross margin that you need as a brand owner needs to be minimum 50% margin or above to enable you to really drive your brand and product really hard and to end up with a profitable business. I've met lots of brands that are trying to drive their business at much lower margins than that. And uh, with the, with the costs of running a business, the cost of manufacturing, the costs of moving product around, it is really hard to create a profitable business if you're not, if you're not starting at least in the mid to high 40s. But ideally 50% gross margin. So gross margin is your sales minus your cost of goods. Uh, and that includes your packaging as well. There's lots of hidden costs out there. So particularly in the, you know, warehousing, pick, pack, freight, it's very hard to be crystal clear on, you know, what you're going to be charged and what you're going to be invoice invoiced for moving and storing product around. Um, it really is ah, a minefield. But ultimately, you know, Australia, very, very high cost of rental and very high wage cost and that subsequently means uh, a very high manufacturing cost which you know, as we know drives the retail sell price up. Obviously the retailers need their margin, you need your margin, the manufacturers need their margin too and there's lots of costs in between. And uh, yeah, just from day one be very, very clear on the economic model. And you know, most people I work with aren't. So there you go, very important number seven, commercialization number eight. And the last point on this little chat here is, is the marketing. We saved the best or last. And marketing does trump absolutely everything. I was a seminar some years ago, I think it was Grant Cordain and he said this on the stage. I uh, never actually uh, probably five or six years ago. I wasn't convinced that that was the case back then. But 100 guaranteed. Again, assuming you have a great product and a great brand after that, your marketing trumps everything. You've got a great brand with purpose, you've got an excellent product. That doesn't mean anything unless you've got a really excellent marketing plan. And again, the marketing plan needs to be different. It's pointless spending a lot of money marketing your brand if you're going to be doing it a very similar way to what everyone else is does because then you're just going to blend in. So there's three key buckets here. There's actually four. The first one is be really, really clear on your message. So you want a message, easy to come up with five, six, seven messages. But you want a message, one message. So nothing dips. It is delicious dips in a paper based tub. That's it. Uh, for the pistachio spread. It's deliciously not normal. And just be very, very clear on what your message is. What is your number one key att of your products and your brand. Maybe it's two short messages but it's certainly no more than two. Uh, getting into three key buckets of the most effective use of any marketing funds that you have, obviously or potentially not Obviously, but number one, your digital marketing. So everything digital 2020, 2026 now with AI and all the opportunities to create interesting, engaging content and build an audience at pace. The number one thing I say to people when it comes to digital marketing, especially when they're early on in their journey, the most important thing is not to try and obtain sales online. It's actually to build a community. So there's lots of different ways that you can build a community very quickly. I think with nothing up to almost 20,000 followers, that's in about four years. That's not super fast, but it's pretty fast. Um, and obviously as time goes by it gets more expensive to build a community through you know, targeted, targeted ads and boosting posts etc. But it is really, really key because then you can talk to this audience. The bigger audience you have, um, the more people you have to tell them about what you're doing. It's not complicated. You know, I've seen brands that have been operating for five, six, seven years, they've got you know, a thousand or two thousand followers. Uh, um, that is the most important part when it comes to digital marketing. You know, Insta. I'm not going to rattle through all the platforms and I think Insta is the key one for food and beverage brands, no secret, um, but lots of other, um, lots of other platforms that you'd all know about. Uh, in terms of content there's a few key things I think short reels are definitely the most engaging. This is my own personal experience, um, founder led content. People are interested in people. There is no doubt people love human faces. Whether you're oil painting or not doesn't matter, it really doesn't matter. But people love the stories. You know I don't need to mention uh, some of the brands out there that doing a fabulous job on, on uh, with their marketing. Um, and the bulk of it is founder led content. You know, cheeky faces, you know the guys at Bay Juice you would know and would have seen that built, built their business on Tim, uh, and liam's faces on TikTok and Insta and they you know they're very public about what they do and how they do it and uh, ye Bootstrap, couple of guys that obviously having a lot of fun along the journey. Uh, yeah. So that is number one build an audience, be creative with the content. You don't need to spend a fortune. You can do a lot of it with your iPhone, get a bit of help editing and making it look a bit flash. But um, you Know, low cost, high impact and the budget you set aside for boosting posts, um, is up to you. But it's sort of not a choice. You've got to get a big audience otherwise you know, just going to be talking to yourself. There's the digital side of life. The second one is sampling. So no doubt that uh, getting your product into people's mouths is really, really key, especially if it's delicious. And I've found over the years the best way to do that is at the Consumer Food Show. So shows like the Good Food and Wine show, Mind, Body, spirit, anything where you can get your product into people's mouths en masse. So we're talking two, three, five, you know, thousand plus people over two or three days is absolutely the best method because especially if you've got a good distribution, you can divert these consumers to where they can buy later. And you can also give them a code to order online. Plus you get lots of feedback on your product, especially brands in the early stages. But it is hard yaka. It is really hard yaka and you, you know, after three days you end up hating yourself. But it is pretty key, um, any sort of event or sponsoring an event or where you can get your product into people's mouths. Guerrilla marketing in the city with people getting off the train and the tram and anywhere where the crowds are where you can sample en masse. Um, obviously sampling in store is good as well, but that's a slow burn. So get your product into people's mouths. Even give it away if you've got a cost, a product that's cost of a dollar or two dollars, you know, um, don't be so precious about giving samples away too because that's where you're going to get your feedback and that's where you're going to get your loyalty and that's where people are going to find out about what you're doing. Number three, and this is important too, talking bricks and mortar retailing now. So obviously you know, what you do within the four walls of a retail store is really, really key. So you know, fortunately or unfortunately the biggest one is the in store promotions. So you know, everyone else is promoting their product from a price point of view. So you know, you have to be doing that periodically to, to gain, um, gain some traction. Ah, you know, the majors have the famous yellow ticket. You know, it is really, really key. Uh, number two, get your products off the shelf into an off location bin. You know, where can you get your product off located, um, to have a second bite of the cherry, so to speak, um, really, really important. And um, yeah, getting a relationship with the people that you're working with, um, in these stores. So really, really key. Um, you know, you've got to really, don't get complacent when you get a great listing. You've got to really work hard. It's one thing to get great listings, but it's another thing to keep that listing. So you really need to have a budget to drive your product within the four walls of the store. Look, there's lots of other things, but they're the big three digital, grow a big community, talk to them at pace, have fun with the content. You know, don't be shy, be different. I mean the theme of this 20 minute chat is absolutely be different. Uh, resonate with consumers and be different and be delicious. Don't forget. So, uh, yeah, um, have a brand with purpose and tell everyone about it. And um, if you've got a fabulous product and it's very different, then there's only one thing that's going to happen. And the thing that I love most of all about this game, and we proved this in recent, very recent times, is that, you know, if you do get it right, there is no ceiling. There is absolutely no ceiling at all. Um, and that's the exciting part. But conversely, if you just want to have a, ah, side hustle, then that's absolutely, totally fine too. But just be clear on what you're trying to do. My name's David Burns. I've really enjoyed talking to myself here for the last 20 minutes or so. I do have an ebook on this topic and I've called it the holy grail of developing a new brand and product range. It's quite short, it's quite high level. That's basically a documented version of what I've just rattled through. If you'd like that, please email me on davidjbfoodgroup.com or you can get me on LinkedIn. Uh, DavidJ. Burns, uh, Insta same, you'll see. Uh, DavidJ. BurnsS, you better find me somewhere. Tap me a note. Uh, my mobile's on there as well. Email me, text, uh, me, message me, call me anytime at all. Been a pleasure. I hope everyone has an absolutely fantastic year and appreciate you listening to this little episode Food Mentor podcast with myself. Very lonely in the podcast studio here and uh, thanks very much and I'll see you all soon.