The Faces of Business · 2025-12-05 · 34 min
Angela Thurman brings deep technical expertise from her early work with Eagle Pitcher's germanium and silicon crystal growth using the Czochralski method, combined with insights into the current semiconductor manufacturing renaissance in America. The episode examines how the CHIPS Act, signed in August 2022 with $280 billion in federal authorization, has catalyzed private sector investment exceeding $500 billion - part of a global $1 trillion commitment to new fabrication plants through 2030. While Taiwan currently dominates chip production including exclusive manufacturing of certain types, the conversation explores why reshoring matters beyond just cost: supply chain resilience, national security (F-35 fighter jets, medical devices, vehicles all depend on chip reliability), and the ability to iterate design changes within weeks rather than months. Thurman positions the expansion across Texas (Dallas, Austin, Sherman), Arizona, and New York as addressing both economic competitiveness and geopolitical risk - manufacturing closer to end-users eliminates weeks of shipping delays and customs bottlenecks. The episode also covers semiconductor materials diversity (silicon, germanium, gallium arsenide, even diamond in certain applications) and the job creation across construction, clean room operations, skilled technical labor, and engineering roles that these massive facilities will generate.
Hosted by Damon Pistulka. The show scores 67.0/100 on substance across its analysed episodes. See the full show profile.
According to the 2025 Semiconductor Industry Association's State of the Industry report, companies in the US semiconductor ecosystem have announced more than $500 billion in private sector investments, separate from the government-funded CHIPS Act which authorized $280 billion in August 2022.
Texas (including Dallas, Sherman, and Austin), Arizona, and New York are the three primary hubs, though facilities are also expanding in many other states outside this triangle.
Some manufacturers are already doing expansions in Texas and should see production from these expanded facilities sometime in 2025 or later this year, adding new production lines for different wavelengths and types of chips like wide bandgap semiconductors.
While silicon is the primary workhorse semiconductor, other materials include germanium (originally used in transistors, still used for power applications), gallium arsenide, indium arsenide, carbon/diamond for certain applications, and compounds like tin and lead in specific applications.
US manufacturing has higher labor costs, but provides risk mitigation through local sourcing with delivery in weeks rather than months, eliminating shipping delays and customs bottlenecks - a worthwhile tradeoff given geopolitical vulnerabilities and the fact that Taiwan is exposed to earthquake risks.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
In this episode of The Faces of Business, Angela Thurman, Founder & CEO of Thurman Co., dived into the complex and critical efforts underway to rebuild America’s semiconductor supply chain and what these investments mean for business owners navigating a shifting industrial landscape. Angela is a seasoned aerospace and telecom program leader with over 25 years of experience managing multimillion-dollar contracts and supplier systems for major players like Collins Aerospace, Boeing, Airbus, and Sprint. As a certified Project Management Professional (PMP) and Lean Master, her career has been defined by solving big technical problems with strategic insight and operational rigor. At Thurman Co., Angela guides clients through supplier assessments, process improvements, and risk management all critical capabilities as U.S. manufacturing doubles down on semiconductor self-reliance. Join us to gain actionable insights on how these national investments are reshaping supply chains and what that means for your business operations, vendor relationships, and future growth.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: All right everyone. Welcome once again to the Faces of Business. I am your host, Damon Pastalka. And I am so, so excited today, so blessed to be able to have Angela Thurman on as my guest today. And today we are going to be talking about something that Angela knows a lot about. We're going to be talking about rebuilding America's chip supply inside the planned state semiconductor investments in the U.S. angela, thanks for being here today.
Speaker B: Oh thanks Damon. It's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
Speaker A: Oh, uh, it's awesome to have you here today and, and we were catching up before we got on. And you have quite a background in the silicon chip sector in the United States. Let's just talk about your background a little bit because I know there's a lot more than just the silicon work. But let's start there because that did start right out of college for you.
Speaker B: It did. So following, um, my graduation, um, before I could take my first real job at um, at NASA, I had a summer where I was sort of at loose ends. And so during that time, um, I um, took an internship at a company called Eagle Picture, um, Specialty Materials Division in Quapaw, Oklahoma which is at the exception extreme northeast corner of Oklahoma. It is right on the Kansas border and the Missouri border to the east. And um, it's. That whole area is really filled with some amazing history. And so the reason that Eagle Pitcher is in that region is because that was once a very vital mining um, area. And so they mined for lead and zinc and tin I believe, but definitely lead and zinc. And um. And so Eagle Pitcher, um, Specialty Materials Division produced germanium and silicon, um, both uh, for its electro optical properties and for semiconductor grade uh, materials. Semiconductor um, material is monocrystalline, meaning it is a single crystal grown in. But um, Eagle Pitcher used the Zachary method, which means this um, this raw um, metal just for. It's a semiconductor. So it's not really metal. But yeah, we'll just call it metal for the sake of argument. They melted it in a crucible and so the crucible spins in one direction and then a, a seed crystal is lowered into that molten metal at its. Spins in the opposite direction. And so very slowly the seed crystal is withdrawn from that molten metal and a new crystal um, grows. And that, that um, new crystal called a bull, um, can weigh in the case of germanium, um, 50 pounds.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: I mean it's big, it's heavy, it is a big thing. And it's all in one single crystal formation. It's absolutely perfect.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: Just imagine that
Speaker A: and
Speaker B: then in the case of silicon, they're grown in even larger chambers and so they might range from like 60 to 80 pounds.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: And again it's all one single crystal, um, formation. And depending on the sea crystal that you use, um, that determines the orientation of that um, that of that crystal. So in a three dimensional plane, um, that could have, that could, that means that crystal could have um, like a 110 orientation, a 101 orientation and so forth. And, and that would mean something.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Wafer people.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But um, we, we would also then um, introduce dopants depending on. And these are other elements.
Speaker A: Uh-huh.
Speaker B: That you would introduce to the germanium or the silicon to um, cause the, the germanium or the silicon to take on electrical properties to make it um, either positive or negative.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: Type. And that's when you're building a semiconductor, you'll have layers of PNP or npn.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And that's what creates the electrical properties for a semiconductor.
Speaker A: That's really interesting.
Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So it, it was a really great experience. And um, during that summer I worked with Dr. Jeroy Richter um, conducting research. Um, and so I would take these um, two centimeters, um the two centimeters on, on uh one side and then well one by one centimeters on, on the other two sides.
Speaker A: So
Speaker B: they were long, ah, long rectangles but square on the edges. Um, samples and um, put them into a test apparatus that would heat them up. And so we were measuring resistivity versus temperature. So I was mapping the resistivity of the sample over a range of temperatures.
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: And that became some pretty um, historical work. Um so it went into his research and it also then the finished graph went into the marketing material.
Speaker A: M
Speaker B: M for eco picture and was referenced by everyone, um, from that point forward. So it was, it was a great experience.
Speaker A: So does, does in general, does the receptivity go down or go up as the temperature goes down or up, does it go the same as in temperature goes higher, resistivity goes higher or if
Speaker B: it goes down, it goes down. Okay. Yeah. As the, as the um, the material heats up, the resistivity goes down.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So you want it warmer if you wanted to go faster.
Speaker B: Yes, yes.
Speaker A: There you go. Ah, interesting, uh, stuff. So you know we, we've got a lot of things happening in the chip world. I mean it started a few years ago now and, and investments. Well, you know, Covid showed us that our supply chain for chips was, was very dependent on really on one, one country. Um, and uh, we, we decided to change that a little bit. So let's talk a little bit about what's happening in the US and, and what's happening with the chip infrastructure in the U.S.
Speaker B: okay, yeah, of course. So um, so the, the chip industry is very, very dependent on Taiwan and, and there are, there are some um, types of chips that are made exclusively in Taiwan. And that's not something that's going to change very quickly.
Speaker A: But
Speaker B: thankfully due to the, due to the CHIPS act there is a great deal of funding that is, is now available for U S Manufacturers. And because of the federal funding that's available that has also sparked commercial funding as well. So I'm just going to read from some of the stats that um, that I've got um, pulled up. So According to the 2025 Semiconductor Industry Association's State of the Industry report, companies in the US Semiconductor semiconductor ecosystem have announced more than half a trillion dollars in
Speaker A: the
Speaker B: private sector investments. So that's, that's a
Speaker A: 500B, 500B with a billion, over
Speaker B: 500 billion. So half a trillion dollars in private sector investments. So that's apart from
Speaker A: the government investment.
Speaker B: The government funded chips act. Yes.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And so globally um, McKinsey reports that um, semiconductor firms plan to invest roughly a trillion in new fabrication plants through 2030. So that, that's coming up really fast.
Speaker A: Oh yeah,
Speaker B: the, the amount of time that it takes to build a new facility and then um, um, add all of the, the uh, equipment, get the workforce in place. That's coming up really fast. And
Speaker A: then
Speaker B: um, the the Chips act was actually signed in August of 2022 and that authorized about 280 billion to boost the US semiconductor research and manufacturing. So we're already seeing that being put to work um, here in the U.S. i know, you know I'm in Houston, I'm in Texas. Texas is a, a huge semiconductor um, manufacturing and research force. We've got you know, two big, big um, hubs of semiconductor um, fabrication centered around um, Dallas, the north side of Dallas, um, you know Sherman and that area and then also in Austin. And then um, you had mentioned in our discussion um, before the show started about seeing um, new facilities in Arizona. Arizona is another big hub. And then to finish off that, that uh, trifecta if you will. New York is leading the way with advanced um, semiconductor production and uh, packaging and research as well. So those, those New York, Arizona and Texas are really um, where the focus has been thus far. Although there are many other facilities that are outside that triangle. But we're seeing a lot of growth in those three states primarily
Speaker A: yeah. So when we think about chips, I mean there's chips and everything. Right. Anything electronic anymore just about has chips. Little toys, little trinkets you got. We have uh, you know, $10 toys that have chips in them anymore.
Speaker B: Exactly.
Speaker A: About the chips that we're gearing up to, to produce in the United States, is there a certain sector of chips? Is there a certain, you know, are we looking at higher end chips? Are we looking for more um, specialized? What, what is it really that we're doing in the US that as far as will uh, change the supply chain?
Speaker B: Well, one thing that we want to think about is, you know we just want our, our entire supply chain to be more resilient
Speaker A: and
Speaker B: we don't want to be in a position where um, we're going to jeopardize our safety, security and our economy.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So um, right now if, and, and, and you know, in the COVID days prior to the CHIPS act, for example, you know, anything and everything could be dependent on a foreign government.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, for, for our manufacturing. And that could be anything from your, your, your vehicle to an F, ah, 35 um, fighter jet.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Um, to your, your mobile handset. Your, your cell phone.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: To your refrigerator.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: But you know, also life saving medical devices.
Speaker A: Yep.
Speaker B: Um, all of those things could be and, and actually were dependent on the chips that were manufactured in other um, locations,
Speaker A: you know,
Speaker B: foreign shores. And without any sort of, you know, any malice or anything like that, just the, the, the time it took to, to get those products to our uh, manufacturing facilities. Just, it just, it took ages
Speaker A: and
Speaker B: any kind of design changes um, would have to be approved and, and um, implemented into, into the products. Um, so that also added, added time to the manufacturing process as well. And so having those chips now built in the US Is going to just reduce the, the manufacturing time by weeks, even months because we don't have to worry about the logistics of you know, ships coming from um, you know, other shores and then having to go through um, the, the docks and, and, and uh, and customs and, and all of that.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And yeah. If, if I remember right, during uh, during the time when we really were hitting the chip shortage, we had vehicles that were being delivered without chips because they had no room with the factories anym that already didn't have chips
Speaker B: that
Speaker A: they needed to produce. And, and uh, I even think about a friend of mine that ran a truck upfitting company, fairly good sized one. Um, and, and they had literally tens of trucks sitting in there a lot that the, the dealerships had to deliver because they had no room and they were their trucks. But they didn't have all the components, all the electronics in them yet.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And some they could roll in and work on them but they couldn't start them and use all the equipment on them.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Yeah. It was really quite a deal when that, when that happened. I can see why this caused you know, probably billions and billions of dollars of upset um, into our economy and, and cost overruns.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: So yeah, it was quite an awakening. And it's cool to see though that we are investing because my goodness, these are big facilities.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: they're big.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: I mean it looked like the one I drove by. It was like it's, it's at least in the tens of acres, if not well over 100 and into, into the like 200 acres. Because it looked like, you know, I grew up in the Dakotas where you know, 640 acres is a mile square. I don't know if they were quite that big, but they were big. You know, it was big. Um, the one I saw in Arizona. And you have to imagine that just to gear up for that, like you said, to get ready to construct a, a, a refinery size facility is years just planning and permitting and design and so when, I mean when are we going to see. Do you have any idea when we're going to actually see production starting in the US
Speaker B: well some of these manufacturers are doing expansions. Okay. Here in Texas we're seeing um, a lot of expansions of. Ah,
Speaker A: that's cool then.
Speaker B: Facilities. Yes.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I think that we'll, we'll um, we'll see more of that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And so we should be seeing production um, from those facilities I, I would suppose even this year.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So they're going, they're going to be adding um, additional lines for
Speaker A: okay.
Speaker B: New um, new wavelengths. So their, their chips are going to be uh, you know, um, maybe wide, wide band gap or um, a different type of.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: I know nothing about chips. I know they're made out. To me it's made out of sand and a bunch of metal. And that's about.
Speaker B: Sand is silicon. That's only silicon.
Speaker A: And
Speaker B: there are, there are m. Other, There are other um, elements.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: That are um, semiconductors as well. And, and they have very specific um, applications. So, so germanium was the original transistor.
Speaker A: Okay.
Speaker B: And it's still um, widely used especially for power applications. Um, but you know, silicon is still, you know, the big workhorse. You know, it's, it's the second most ab Element, um, on earth. So,
Speaker A: um,
Speaker B: we're going to be. We're going to be using a lot of silicon, but even, uh, you know, carbon is, Is a semiconductor. You know, diamond is a semiconductor in certain applications.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: And then, um, you know, we've got several compounds. So, um, if we think about gallium arsenide, indium arsenide, um, you know, even tin and lead in, in certain applications can be semiconductors.
Speaker A: Huh. Huh.
Speaker B: So,
Speaker A: so, uh, so as we, as we see this, are we. We probably won't see a drastic change in pricing and the end products or things like that from it, but what you're saying is we'll just have a more stable supply to feed the products that we have around us.
Speaker B: Well, some people say that because the, um, labor, uh, charges in the US Are, uh, more expensive than they are in other countries, that this is going to cause the chips that are built in the US to be more expensive. But that has to be weighed with the fact that you, you now have a reliable, um, source that is local. And um. So when you think about the total cost, um, for purchasing those chips, um, it's, It's a risk mitigation.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So is it worth it to pay a little more for chips that are manufactured in the U.S. um, when you know, you'll have a reliable, uh, reliable source, um, that can be delivered in a matter of, say, weeks rather than months and, and have that, you know, that that other source is, um.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. Well, and that. That risk factor is a big deal. I mean, because if you're in, say you're in Arizona, Texas or New York, and even if my plant is across my plant where I'm producing something that needs the chips is, Is in Detroit, say, um, within a few hours you can have a 747 full of chips to your. To your door if you really need it.
Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly. So that's a, that's a million pounds worth of chips, by the way.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And it's, it's, it's, it's doable. I mean, uh, and, and that's one thing I think that, um, you know, that can really, really make a huge difference is that risk factor. Uh, we've all gotten comfortable with off drawing and it's, it's. It definitely needs to be a part of our overall economy and how we do things. But there's certain things, you know, that. Well, like we saw in Covid, just simple things. As simple as surgical masks or, or other. Other products that we take. Take, uh, um, we take for granted that they just are going to always show up and, and we don't understand that supply chain behind them can be around on the other side of the world. And if you know, it could be an earthquake, it could be a hurricane, it could be whatever and you could be without those products for months.
Speaker B: And one thing I also want to point out is, you know, the transistor was invented in the U.S.
Speaker A: yes.
Speaker B: And you know, somehow we, we did, we didn't value our own intellectual property and we just more or less gave it away.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: M. And so for me I, I'm looking forward to a day when, when, when the US returns to um, leading the, the development of um, of, of chips and, and um, and technology like that.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: So um, we, we don't have to rely on third party manufacturers for, for these, you know, really, really important
Speaker A: m.
Speaker B: Um devices. So when, when it is um, especially it's strategic intellectual property.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: May play a role in our security, um, and defense. Um, let's, let's keep that IP at home.
Speaker A: Yeah. Well you make, you make a great point because even something. And this is, I'm kind of minimizing it a little bit. There's a word that might work. Um, a chip that's in, in your vehicle. Right.
Speaker B: It
Speaker A: could be a chip that's in your vehicle. But if I outsource all the design, all the thing and I just tell somebody I want the chip to do this and they're around the globe, my vehicle depends on them. Whereas if I own it and or at least a company in the US Owns it or that we work with and we know at least that if the government's stable, we probably can do, do, you know, relatively stable. We can do what we need to do. And uh, that's quite a difference. When you're looking at, you know, what does the production of one vehicle produce for revenue and jobs and profit for. You know, just take like an F150. Say your F150 chips were made in, in Taiwan. And I know they do a great job making chips. Don't not say anything wrong. But if, if um, you know, I live in earthquake country and they always say when the big one comes, the whole uh, you know, the whole west coast is going or a lot of it is. And uh, you know, if something uh, horrible like that happened, uh, you, you're done. That vehicle's done. And not at least having dual source, um, if nothing else is a huge risk.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Uh, on simple things. On just. And, and that vehicle is not simple. But I mean it's an everyday thing.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: And uh, you know, vehicles are I think are great uh, because just like everything else, the amount of, of technology on them just continues to escalate faster and faster. Yeah,
Speaker B: well, uh, you know in, in Austin we already have self driving vehicles on the road. And I mean we have here in Texas, we have semis there that are autonomous.
Speaker A: Wow.
Speaker B: Yeah,
Speaker A: that's cool. Yeah. And you know, and again it's, it's all powered by chips and it's cool to see that we're investing in chips and we're, we're making this a part of, of the future for us. Because you know, if, if we get that uh, new, a trillion in a new new investment by industry, uh, by 2030, that's going to make a big difference.
Speaker B: It is.
Speaker A: Yeah. That's super cool. So what are you, what's, what excites you about this? Because this, you know, I mean you, you like to do big projects, you like technical stuff, managing these, all the intricacies of these kind of things. What really excites you about this?
Speaker B: Um, I think the fact that it, it's just the further extension of something that already exists and we're so accustomed to, to having you know, digital technology at our fingertips and, and we don't, we don't even think about um, what, you know, how the chips are placed on the printed circuit boards and, and but it's, it's really, really technical and, and important and um, it's, I mean it can become mind boggling if you really get into it.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And I just, I just, I mean these are the kinds of things that I love to think about and um, um, to work on, uh, to help people solve problems that they're facing with sort of thing. Um, I mean supply chain for this type of project is just rampant with opportunity to improve and of course that, that appeals to me. So how can, how can we make the whole supply chain better?
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And uh, make it work together better for everyone?
Speaker A: Mhm.
Speaker B: So,
Speaker A: so will this drive, will this drive the production of upstream materials too for the chip manufacturing in the United States? Because I mean probably have it in the ground now or the resources someplace here in the US and we probably weren't shipping it across the globe. Um, but now if, if so that will be an interesting development too over the next years. Yeah.
Speaker B: So you know the US is, is rich with all sorts of minerals and, and you know we talked about sand. So you know, all of these different things can, can, can be used in, in the production of the the raw materials that go into the production of these, uh, semiconductor materials. And um, I mean like I, I talk about, you know, Oklahoma, you know, there's has this, a lot of people don't realize, but has this rich history from. You know, my grandpa used to, you know, be a minor when he was a kid and you know.
Speaker A: Yeah, that's something.
Speaker B: Zinc and lead and tin and germanium, um, is a byproduct of the lead and zinc smelting process. I mean they, back in the early 1900s they didn't realize that that was the really good stuff. It was just a byproduct.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Going away.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Yeah.
Speaker A: Incredible. That's incredible. So in terms of jobs, what this. I mean, because if this, I mean as big as this is biggest investment is, there's got to be a, a just a. First of all construction jobs. Multi year construction jobs.
Speaker B: Yes, yes.
Speaker A: You know, because it's not just if you think about the buildings are huge, the equipment are huge. They got a source of the equipment someplace. They've got to build the buildings, but they've got to build the roads, they've got to build the electrical infrastructure to go in there. They've got to get all the utilities
Speaker B: for
Speaker A: miles and miles.
Speaker B: All of that.
Speaker A: Yeah. Gotta be a ton of jobs created by this investment.
Speaker B: Yep, yep. So that's, that's like the first phase is all of the construction and infrastructure.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And then you think about, you know, these facilities are going to have clean room. Um, it's, it's very uh, it's a very sensitive ecosystem.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And um, so that's going to be coming in um, as well. These are the, the, the jobs that it, that these new factories will bring will be um, technical skilled labor and it's also going to be bringing in a lot of um, engineering and technical specialists and
Speaker A: m and
Speaker B: all of that designers and so forth as well.
Speaker A: Wow. Um, super cool.
Speaker B: It is.
Speaker A: So it sounds like we're at the, at the precipice of ah, some exciting times with the chips in the United States.
Speaker B: I think so. I think so.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: I'm excited about it and I think, you know, there's almost nothing that you can purchase today that doesn't have some kind of chip in it.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: I mean let's uh, let's think about going to
Speaker A: everything, you know, look around your room
Speaker B: for me. It's going to be Walmart.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And, and, and just, you know, anything.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Like you said, toys or um, a laptop, a cell phone.
Speaker A: Yeah. You got your AirPods, you got, you Know, anything. Remote controls, you've got, you know, everything's got it in there. Even, even your, your holiday, uh, lights have them in them.
Speaker B: Exactly. Exactly.
Speaker A: Uh, you know,
Speaker B: your doorbell now.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: Uh, everything, everything is, is digital and if it's digital, there's a semiconductor in there somewhere.
Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, it's, it's awesome talking about this because I'm excited to see that, you know, we, this is, this is probably one of the more major investments that we've made in, in manufacturing in the United States in the last decade or so.
Speaker B: Oh, yes, a long time.
Speaker A: Yeah.
Speaker B: And. And it's going to have impacts for several decades.
Speaker A: Yeah,
Speaker B: it's. It's something that, um, I'm so pleased to see, you know, the, the decision to, to make a major investment in US Manufacturing.
Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Well, Angela, thanks so much for being here today. It was awesome talking to you today about, you know, this, the chip act, the investment that's coming around and how America is rebuilding the chip supply. Because I think it's going to be exciting times for this ahead. And uh. Yeah, just good stuff. Thank you.
Speaker B: Thank you.
Speaker A: Yes. So if someone wants to reach out to you, Angela, what's the best way to get a hold of you?
Speaker B: Um, LinkedIn is a great way to, to uh, reach me or, um, my, uh, my website, thurmanco.com.
Speaker A: all right. And that's T H R M A N C O dot com.
Speaker B: Yes.
Speaker A: Thco dot com.
Speaker B: I
Speaker A: want to say thanks to Angela Thurman for being here today. Again, I want to thank all you that are out there listening. I can see you out there that were listening. Thanks so much. I appreciate that each and every day. And if you didn't hear what we had talked about, got in late, go back to the beginning. Angela and I were talking about the over $1 trillion of new investment in chip fabrication and chip facilities in the United States over the next five or so years. Because we're getting close to 20, 20, 2030 and uh, how that's going to change, how it's going to change things in US Manufacturing. So, Angela, hang out. We'll finish offline, but I want to say thank you to everyone for being here today. We will be back again.
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