Events, confidence and human connection, why mental health & wellbeing is important

Speaker A: Welcome to the EPN Journal podcast. I'm, um, Bob Toomey. My guest for this episode is Juliet debillard, founder and CEO of Climate Connection and founder of Connexion Studio. Her areas of interest include sustainability, mental health and well being, and helping founders and entrepreneurs to become better speakers. There are, uh, many things about podcasting that I love. One of them is talking to guests who make you think about things you've just not considered before. That's why talking with Juliet was a learning experience and a pleasure. Before we get started, a big thank you to our partners for their continued support, Vivid Inc. And Event Flow. More about them at the end of the episode. Well, Juliet, thank you very much for joining me today, uh, to talk about some rather interesting things about what you've been up to and your, um. Well, you recently shared an article on Event Plan News Journal about just. Events are boring, I like to say that, but let's start from the start a little bit before that. So you have worked and lived away from the U.K. and I believe that was Asia and the U.S. yes.

Speaker B: Yeah, I spent, uh, two years in China, about four years in the United States. Um, grew up in Switzerland. Um, so very international background. Um, for myself.

Speaker A: Well, it's all that sort of wide experience that helps you see deeper into what goes on

Speaker B: probably. I think when you have, when you move countries, you, you learn a lot about, um, different cultures and you absorb ways that people work and interact that are different to where you've come from. Um, and certainly for me, growing up, uh, in a multicultural household with parents with different mother tongues and things, um, there was a lot of that from an early age as well. Cool.

Speaker A: What sort of languages were you exposed to then at that early age?

Speaker B: So I'm half Swiss, half British, grew up in Switzerland. So my, my father spoke French to me, my mum spoke English. And uh, you know, there's always a bit of a, kind of growing up in, in both environments and.

Speaker A: Yeah, amazing, amazing. Yeah. Um, I spent some time in France, uh, even though I was there for 20 years, my command of the language is just awful.

Speaker B: It's a very difficult language to learn. It's, uh, you know, even, even the French struggle with it. Uh, spend 18 years trying to understand how to do basic grammar. So, um, yes, any, any foreigner learning. I always take my hat off to you.

Speaker A: Yeah, but it's always remember, important to remember that just because you are, uh, with a native speaker. That's mean to say they know how to speak it properly either.

Speaker B: Oh yeah. No, I mean, people still make spelling mistakes and grammar mistakes for the most part. All of their lives.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So all that experience is come together. Um, I mean how did that spark your interest in climate innovation? Mental health?

Speaker B: Yeah. Um, so I started my career in the United nations and uh, I was very mission driven and wanting to think about how we can make the world a better place, um, help with things like cross cultural understanding and um, different countries working together. And um, and it was a wonderful place to, to start my career, but also one that showed me how much I was driven by uh, a need for efficiency and results because the UN is incredible in what it achieves, but it is also very, very slow moving. Um, and that was a source of frustration for me uh, early in my career that led me to go, okay, well maybe I need to explore some other sectors. And it was over the course of my master's degree that I found this fantastic organization called Greentown Labs that is uh, the US's largest climate tech incubator. So they, they had 100 companies all under one roof working on really, really difficult um, climate focused technologies. Everything ranging from new approaches to geothermal to um, better um, blades for wind power to better ways of producing chemicals and many more other pieces. Um, and uh, yeah, it was in that environment that I really realized, wow, this is a very, very special place to be because the innovation sector, particularly in the cl, um is just as mission driven as folks who are working for the United Nations. Right. Everyone is focused on that same common goal, um, of uh, reducing emissions and building a more prosperous future. And yet they're doing it with the efficiency of the private sector, if not even faster. Because as we know startups are uh, constantly having to fundraise and figure out how to move faster to um, get to their results with a very limited amount of uh, Runway that they have.

Speaker A: Yeah, quite often they um, innovate very quickly, um, quite often pivoting quite often. Yeah, so I could see that as a, um, a fast way of reaching goals as opposed to when you've got a big bureaucratic organization. And as aspiring as uh, United nations may be, I could imagine lots of committees, lots, lots of decisions to be made over long periods of time.

Speaker B: Yes, indeed. Whereas a startup, it goes, um, okay, what do you think we should do next? Right, let's talk to the other three people on this team. Um, okay, cool. Decision made, let's go. You know, it's a very, very um, upbeat, fast environment and everything uh, is around being reactive and, and uh, planning. Obviously you're trying to achieve Your goal, but you're also as you say, very willing to pivot. And, and that's why startups are such a great vehicle for um, innovation and why um, corporates, large organizations that obviously want to innovate often find it um, easier to acquire a startup or bring in a startup's products than develop that same product internally. Because it will just take so much longer with a different structure.

Speaker A: Yeah, because quite often they either acquire for the products and services or for the skills that the team has.

Speaker B: Yeah, for the skills that the team has. Although it's not always easy to keep the startup mindset when you bring the startup into the corporate. So I think you tend to see a little bit more um, of that acquisition approach happening when there is actually a product that can be ideally kind of scaled, launched, become part of the business units, um, offerings effectively than just acquiring people. Because corporates do know how to reduce, recruit individuals. Um, but it's uh, it's making the new products from scratch in a timeline that makes sense. That is, that is different.

Speaker A: Yeah. That experience um, lead you to start Climate Connection in the uk.

Speaker B: I would say what led me to start Climate Connection was, was definitely living in the United States. So initially in, in Boston with greentown Labs and then in California with the Activate Fellowship which is a phenomenal venture builder, um, organization in the, in the United States. Um, so I worked in two really, really vibrant startup ecosystems and then when I moved back to the uk, um, which you know certainly has one of the most vibrant ecosystems in Europe, um, what was really surprising was just that we still moved quite a lot slower um, than uh, than the United States. So people for a lot of talent. You know, we have an amazing concentration of universities, um, innovation coming out of those universities, a lot of IP creation. We, we have a lot to give and there is a lot going on in London and yet we still move a lot far a lot slower, sorry than the United States. So from that perspective, um, when I came over and I sort of realized that this was the case, what felt like it was missing to me was really a convening power that could bring people together um, in ways that would go against traditional British culture. Um, we tend to be a little bit more reserved in our networking, a little bit shyer about walking up to people and introducing ourselves and also a lot more humble in uh, how we talk about our work and what that creates overall is a more slow moving environment when it comes to building new connections. So that's what the goal behind Climate Connection was, is how can we Bring people together in the uk, help accelerate the pace, um, of connections and innovation as a whole by creating events that are much more interactive than the norm, get people out of their comfort zones and um, try to influence uh, the British networking culture in that way.

Speaker A: Yeah, the British culture uh, can be um, um, strange to people who are not being exposed to it for long enough. Mhm. You know what I mean? I mean as it is, nobody talks to each other on tube trains, buses,

Speaker B: um, I think that's quite common in a lot of countries actually though.

Speaker A: You think so?

Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I think public transport is um, I mean having lived in, you know, many places like I, I don't, I don't believe that there's a strong culture of talking to each other in Switzerland, the United States, China, I mean Japan. Like there's many places that I've been and visited and um, I think there is something about just putting strangers in a box and knowing uh, that you're only on there for a very short amount of time. You might see more conversations on long, long distance trains perhaps.

Speaker A: But yeah, yeah, I suppose it is a bit much to uh, expect um, a bunch of strangers all cramped in a, you know, some kind of metal box at bus or tube trade, whatever and expect them to just spark up uh, conversations.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So I guess that's how you've kind of formed your view. I don't know whether it's controversial or not, but events are boring. You've made that statement and to some extent I think most people in the event industry might go with that.

Speaker B: So I'll be a little bit more specific. Networking events are boring. Um, I'm, you know the event industry as a whole is obviously a huge industry and there are many people there putting on concerts, interactive art exhibits and all sorts of other things. Things that are much more kind of curated to the people who are attending. Um, and I think if you think about why, um, from more of like a markets dynamic perspective that sort of makes sense. Right. And if you're creating events that are for the public, so let's call it a B2C model, right. Business to consumer model, um, where people are going to only buy your tickets if they're excited about joining, um, then you're going to have to create events that are much more interesting and interactive and that's where all of the cultural pieces come in and they're much better, are designed, um, and they are uh, thinking about who that end audience is, who's going to be buying those tickets and coming back again and again. Um, what happens with the networking industry is that the incentives are misaligned. So, um, very often in the networking space, conferences are sponsored by large organizations, um, and then free for attendees to join or reduced cost. Like some amount is paid for tickets, but it's never going to be, um, the majority of that organization's income. And what that creates as a result is the attention goes to where the money comes from. So in the networking world you, um, will create as a conference, most conferences will choose to have packages where the more you pay, the more time you get on stage or the more you see your brand, um, in various places across the event, um, as a way of increasing visibility and uh, a sort of quid pro quo deal of helping each other out effectively. Um, and the end result of that, that is not as thought through is that the conference's content is tailored around the people who are paying for the conference rather than the people who are attending the conference. Um, and that's why you end up with things like very, very long speeches, um, fireside chats between different people on topics that ah, again matter to the sponsor but might not be, um, the current interest of the audience at large, um, and a lot less, um, that is designed around those individuals attending who would otherwise, um, choose to spend a lot more of their time meeting each other in interactive ways that are not compatible with the idea of a big brand being constantly visible or on stage. Um, and that's why I would say that most networking events are boring. I don't know if you've heard the sentence that uh, I went to the which track with a joke in the kind of conference networking space that um, I went. Let me just start that joke again. So I don't know if you've heard the joke, um, that says, uh, where two people meet after going to a conference and they debrief on it and they say, oh, um, which track did you go in? Did you go listen to the energy track or the transport track or whatever else it was? And then the second person replies, oh, I went to the corridor track. Um, the idea being that nobody's uh, actually there to listen to the speeches that are in the theme of different industry areas, but that they're simply there to meet people in the corridor. Um, and if that doesn't demonstrate that we've got a failure in we organize events and think through different spaces and what the people actually want, then um, I don't know what else does. We shouldn't be creating events where our goal is to attend the event in order to Be in the corridor to happen to meet people.

Speaker A: Oh, I totally get that. Um, I've been to quite, uh, a few trade shows now and you do get the feeling sometimes that they didn't expect or think that people actually go for the networking opportunity, not just to see the exhibitors. So you do get sort of like a roped off area with tables and chairs. And this is the networking area.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah, but that's kind of it. They do a little bit of promotion but it's again, it's like, oh, it's there. Why don't you come and use it? It's not the, not saying the benefits of that or making it exciting or doing it in a new, in an innovative way. It's just simply, yeah, we've got space, why don't you go and use it?

Speaker B: Yeah, it's like you could facilitate so much with that same area if you gave one person the mic and the right script and had them help people meet each other, make it interactive. There's so much more that you can get out of those spaces. So

Speaker A: yeah, so there's several things you're up against really is the um, British culture. So as we've said, you know, people don't. That people need to be uh, well, basically pushed into a conversation because you've got to break that, break the ice in some way. I hate the word icebreaker, but you do need some way of getting people to spark up a conversation. And you can either do that by having somebody acting as a cheerleader to get them talking or make it. So it's uh, um, an exciting, innovative way of getting to meet other people. So you feel that you have to be there, you have to go to it. And there is a huge benefit from just walking up to somebody and say hi.

Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Um, but you'd be surprised how many people feel uncomfortable doing that. Walking up to people and saying hi. Um, I teach a variety of networking focused workshops and um, around the concept of different skills that you need and ways that you might want to think differently about networking in your life and structuring the time that you spend at networking events so that it's actually productive for you. And uh, people find it so, so uncomfortable to have to choose a random person in the room, um, kind of luck of the draw to some extent. Right. And walk up to them and begin a conversation. And uh, I think that's why there's so much power in um, creating things that are facilitated that give you a prompt that asks you to walk up to somebody new so that it's not on you to have that initiative. Um, and there's a lot that we can do to change that. But, uh, there's also a lot of people that people can learn. And that's why I think these workshops are really, um, exciting for people to join when they're in that more uncomfortable, earlier stage of their networking career.

Speaker A: Do you feel there's a lot to learn from people who do speed dating events?

Speaker B: Oh, that's an interesting question. Um, I'm not sure I've ever been to a speed dating event.

Speaker A: Now that I think about it, I've not been either.

Speaker B: Oh my gosh.

Speaker A: See, um, the reason I ask is that, um, from what I have observed and read online, as I say, I've never been to one, but you haven't either. Um, there's often somebody with the person who's either the organizer or the owner of the, of the speed dating event and they take time to get to know the people go. So when it comes to introducing people they've already talked to, oh, I know exactly who you should be, because they've got a similar interest too, and they help to form that initial connection. They're the icebreaker. Again, I hate that term, but they are the icebreaker who bring two different people together and say, oh, you two should talk. You've got a common interest. Do you think that whether you're at a conference or trade show and there's this roped off area with tables and chairs, do we need somebody to stand there and talk to every single person and go, oh, I know who you need to speak to. I think you find this person interesting.

Speaker B: So, I mean, what you're talking about there is a very high level of curation. And um, I mean, certainly the more curated something is that, uh, generally the higher outcomes there are for attendees. I don't think it would be feasible to, as you say, have somebody who's sort of screening people as they enter and then pointing them in the right direction. Because the, the sort of staggering of those conversations for you to get to the depth that you need to understand that person and what their needs are. Um, the sort of filtration process wouldn't work. So you can create that level of curation, but it tends to be easier to do when it's an event where you have decided who is in the room and you've had the time in advance of that, um, to do the homework, which is what generally the sort of speed dating type things do. If you're looking at that format of speed Dating, um, and that's something that we do as well a lot when we run things like, uh, VIP dinners or curated kind of industry dinners and so forth, where we're selecting a guest list of anywhere between 18 and 50 people. Um, and we really actually know exactly who's coming, what their background is, you know, what their top topics for their dinner are. And we curate every single table setting so that they are sitting next to the people that are most going to be most interesting to them. So there are definitely ways of creating curation, um, but on the spot, learning enough just by speaking to someone for a couple of minutes, if there's only one person, managing that would be very, very difficult. You do almost need a lot of advanced planning for that one. But I suppose the other format of speed dating that one could take inspiration from is the concept of just people show up in a room. Um, they have to sit down with a random person, there's a five minute timer that goes on, they've got five minutes to get to know them and bam, you move on. Um, and I suppose if you look at that type of, um, curation, uh, the setting would be very different. Um, then what you're looking at is a time boxed system. And uh, the advantage is that you're moving people through so you're increasing the volume of those conversations, but you're not enabling people to make their own decisions around the depth of things. You could probably figure out for some people that a minute in you probably don't want to be there. And then there's going to be others where you're wishing that you had a full 20. Um, but that's perhaps the point of these events, that you make the list of people that you want to link up with afterwards and you get to pursue those conversations later.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, um, yeah, uh, I've met people in the past. Do you think, yeah, 30 seconds was enough? Can I move on now, please? It happens. But as you say, I mean, sometimes you do meet somebody and you want to spend longer time talking to them about what they do, how they do it. You find them a very interesting person. Not just what they do or what company they run and the service they provide, but as a person, you think, oh, uh, yeah, I love talking to this person.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I mean, one of the biggest things that I talk about when I teach people, um, networking skills is actually to just drop your agenda. A lot of people will walk up to someone with a goal in mind. You know, I am here because I need to find a new customer. I am here because you know, I need to find a new job. And as a result they're kind of filtering everything about that person through that lens. It's effectively a tick box exercise of going, oh wait, um, are you somebody who can help me find a new customer or help me um, give me a new job? And so we sort of discount those people very rapidly once we've figured out what their job title is and so forth. And that's not what's going to be most productive in actually building long term relationships and finding out the reality of whether that person can help you with your goals.

Speaker A: But that's the important thing is that when you arrive, um, actually exhibitors need to remember this. Anybody uh, doing social networking at a conference or trade show needs to remember, um, you're not going to get what you want just by talking to somebody for two minutes. It's not the forget, it's a sales pitch, it's the start of a long term relationship.

Speaker B: Exactly. Yeah, exactly. And so how can we treat everyone in the room that we've just decided to speak to as if they are um, a friendship beginning to be formed. Not somebody that you're trying to assess with the, at least for me, most hated question of what do you do? Um, but someone that you're trying to get to know, someone that you want to understand, um, on a deeper level, um, both in terms of their personal interests, their background, you know, what they're working, what are they excited about in the world, what are they passionate about. Those are the types of things that when you can tap into, then you start, start to build a, ah, relationship that is much more focused on, on that kind of future energy and um, excitement for meeting someone where they're really at.

Speaker A: Yeah. And um, there's other things you um, go into. Um, and there's something I'm quite interested in. Public speaking.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, um, I've got to do a fireside chat, uh, next week.

Speaker B: Oh great. Exciting.

Speaker A: Yeah. So if, um, so I'm already thinking, oh, what, what am I going to say? How am I going to say? It's the whole thing is just. And as someone who's actually, I would class myself as a, um, an outgoing introvert. So I, I will stand in front of these people and talk and do what I need to do and then straight afterwards I'll need to run away, find a quiet spot. Because it's public speaking is not simply having the confidence to stand there in front of a bunch of strangers. Actually it's probably better you've talked to a bunch of strangers. Because if you're talking to friends, they're going to probably be more critical about what you said and how you did it. But it's also having the, um. Because it all leads into the mental health side of things. Not everybody has got the. It's not just boiling down to the confidence, but also having the, um, the right mental, oh, I'm stuck on words. Help you out. Um, yeah, you've got to stand in front of people and if you already got, um, if you're new neurodiverse or anything like that, then it's not a case of confidence. It's. You're already having a go at yourself about why on earth are you doing this. M Which just kind of sounds like confidence. But it's. It's a mental mindset that some people have that, uh, they could never imagine themselves public speaking, but they may find theirselves in a position where they have to.

Speaker B: So I think what you're touching on is some combination of confidence in the sense of the skills and having practiced it in the past as well as mindset in the present and what is sort of the internal self talk that's happening as you step onto that stage. Um, so someone may have an excellent relationship to themselves and feel really comfortable in who they are, uh, in their identity right now. And that might facilitate them, um, being on stage and it being a more comfortable experience regardless of how much they've spoken in the past. Um, versus perhaps the opposite case of someone who regularly has to be on stage but maybe has quite an internal critical, um, voice that says, oh my gosh, you know, you're going to mess this up, or, um, you know, we're not going to do this well enough. Um, so you're right, there's both a combination of experience and mindset that comes together to make somebody better or worse at public speaking overall. Or certainly at least their experience of it, um, better or worse in terms of how stressful or pleasurable that is.

Speaker A: As I say, not everybody's got that, um, well, it's also, when it comes to public speaking, it's just, um, you may not even be aware of how to approach it, let alone having confidence or the right mindset for doing it.

Speaker B: Ah. What do you think about, um, how do you tend to approach public speaking?

Speaker A: Great question. Um, so, as I say, I've got this Fireside chat coming up. So, um, for the rest of this week, the weekend, and the first few days before the event takes place, not only am I going to write the script, but I'm going to actually stand and front of a webcam and just say it over, just practice it over and over. Because I think one way of dealing with the. The confidence issue is to actually. You don't want to read out verbatim. It's not like you're reading a script, but you read through over and over again. So. And make sure that you're knowledgeable on the subject. Because confidence is knowing what you're talking about, understanding what you're talking about. Would you agree on that?

Speaker B: Um, I actually still think confidence is mostly a mindset.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker B: You can give people a script and say, hey, read this. And they can still read it in a shaky voice or a confident one. And yet they had everything they needed to be able to say, um, the words themselves. So I think a lot of the work, when I. When I look at people that I've coached with public speaking in the past, a lot of the work that most people need to do is more around how do you get into that. Right. Mindset? And there's lots of different pieces that can come into that. And so that can be things like believing in yourself on the day. Um, have you given yourself the time leading up to that speech to think about, um, moments in your life that give you confidence, moments in your life where you've done really well, um, or remembering who you are? Perhaps for some people, it can be looking at a photo of their family and remembering that they are someone who is loved and loving of others. And that can kind of bring them into the right mindset for other people. I say listen to your favorite Pump up song, the thing that you put on in the morning when you go on a run or when you need to get something done or whatever else it may be, and kind of bring that energy into the room. And so a lot of it comes down to how do you feel in yourself, in your body? Um, how do you want to feel when you're on stage? Because again, that same person, two different people given the same script will read it in very, very different ways. And a lot of that is about what are they feeling in that moment, what is their experience, what do they believe they are good at or not.

Speaker A: That's got me thinking now. M. So the way I'm going to approach this, um, fireside chat. Because fireside chats are much more intimate than if you're standing on a stage doing a session. You know, you can focus on the back of the seating area, so it looks like you're looking at everybody, but you're not. You're focusing on something at the back. So I will be sitting in front of, um, I'm hoping three people. Knowing how this has been promoted, it's probably going to be more like 20, so. And it's much more intimate. So the idea of, um, either listening to something to pump up your confidence, you know, your favorite tune, or, um, some sort of like, self, um, like a pep talk you give yourself. I like, I like that idea. Um, but I never thought of using, you know, pictures of friends, family, people that you're close to as a way of making you feel good about yourself. So you've got that. You're starting to build your confidence.

Speaker B: It's just about remembering who you are. Right. And so if, uh, if part of your identity is, you know, I'm, I'm a wonderful father or something like that, then you look at that photo and you think, I'm a wonderful father. I'm a wonderful human. And, and here I am on stage. I'm just going to share about different things that relate to, you know, my work, my place in the world, whatever it may be. Um, but suddenly you know who you are. And that sense of knowing, for a lot of people really helps.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's something I do tell myself now and again. Remember why you're here, why you've turned up.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Fireside chats are different though. You, you want to be a much more lateral. In a Fireside chat, you're really there also as yourself. So I think there is, there's a lot of beauty there in reminding yourself of who you are and, um, and what type of energy you want to bring to that stage. Um, are you someone who believes in, you know, positivity in the world? And um, those are, ah, that's the kind of energy that you're going to carry forward as you step onto that stage. Um, or are you perhaps someone who thinks that, hey, you know, what's really needed is analysis and breakdown and so then you're going to be in that mindset of kind of thinking through, like, okay, well, actually, you know, this is how we should approach this problem. And let me walk you through my framework and all of these different pieces like that, that tone shift, thinking intentionally about what you want to bring into the world. That I think is what matters most with Fireside chats, because ultimately it's not like a speech, it's not like a presentation where you're sure that you're going to hit certain points. It's a conversation. So it's more about who are you going to be in this conversation with these other people? Um, and what perspective do you want to embody as you're talking to them?

Speaker A: Yeah, I don't want to get dive too deep in this because I think it'd be worth another episode. But what you're basically describing is, um, being authentic, being your natural self as you are in person, as you are online, as you are on social networks.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker A: Do you find um, that um, founders, VCs and the other people you talk to, do they get that?

Speaker B: I think some of them get it. Um, some people will figure this out naturally for themselves over time. Others might learn it through, you know, help from friends or coaching or whatever else it may be. Um, and others don't access that yet. Right. And they're there perhaps more in a mindset of I do have talking points and I'm here representing an organization. And um, and so it depends, depends on who you're looking at.

Speaker A: Well, uh, so this upcoming trade show I'm going to be out, there's going to be a lot of founders and, and such people all standing there. Um, so yeah, I'm going to be as somebody who does writing, you know, and looking at the news, how these people, um, observing is going to be very interesting. I'm going to sit there and observe and see how these people conduct themselves on stage, in fireside chats, or just wandering around talking to people.

Speaker B: Do you know, do you know who you are in the world, Bob? Do you know what you bring when you go on stage? Like are you. Do you have a sense of. Actually, you know, Bob's personal brand is positivity or analysis or um. And I say personal brand but also who you are. Right. There's a combination of. Ideally your personal brand is who you are. It is that authentic piece about you. So do you have a sense of that for yourself?

Speaker A: Yes, but sometimes I forget it quickly.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: And I think we all do that because we get sidetracked into things and you forget that you're. You're doing a. Yet another project because it's gone quiet for five minutes and then you're going away from the reason you turned up. Um, so every morning I, um, I don't often share this, but um, I start the day with a little mantra. M. Just to remind myself where I, where I am, what I do and why I do it. You can remember why you do things?

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker A: How. How is fine. You can talk about how endlessly, I'm sure, and strategies and stuff. But if you can remember why you're doing it, then you're in a much better place.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Yeah.

Speaker A: So, uh, the mantra I start every day is, um, because I read a lot of stoic philosophy M. I find it so fascinating, so practical and um, so interesting. I mean, thousands of years old and I still find. And they're still relevant and very, very interesting. Um, so one of the things I say to myself every morning is, um, you're in command of everything that you control. Good thoughts, good, uh, good intentions and positive actions. You have to remember that all the things that happen, you, you are in charge of how you react to people.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: To situations, um, of how you think and how you react. That that's what you're in control of.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: If you can't control it, then it's going to happen anyway. Then don't stress about it, don't worry about it, because it's going to happen with or without you.

Speaker B: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker A: So I try to remind myself that every morning.

Speaker B: M. That makes sense.

Speaker A: Um, because I think it's, it's too easy to get distracted and, and not remember why you've turned up. Along with the climate innovation and what you're doing with founders and VCs and public speaking, you also have an interest in mental health awareness as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: What does that involve for you?

Speaker B: Many different pieces. So I would say on a personal front, uh, I speak very openly about my own struggles with mental health in the past. I was suicidal for many years and um, luckily I'm very much not in that place in my life right now. Uh, but I think there's a lot of destigmatization that still needs to happen societally for people to feel more comfortable reaching out and asking for help. And so whenever, um, the opportunity presents for myself at least I, uh, speak about that and um, that might be in an online forum, in talks, uh, and in interpersonal relationships as well. On a more professional front. I think one of the biggest things that we do need to address, um, certainly in the startup world is that there is the culture in the startup world is not what it needs to be for us to have thriving new companies and startups and for innovation, ah, to get to develop to the stage that we want. A, uh, founder that is running a company is under immense amounts of stress. And of course everyone who goes to work has responsibilities in a job. But until you've been in that founder position with that real, uh, understanding of okay, these people's livelihoods are dependent on me, we only have six months of cash in the Bank. Here are all the different milestones that we have to meet. Here's the conversations that investors are having with us and the pressure that we're under. Um, it is an enormously difficult job. Um, it is enormously difficult endeavor to be at the helm of. And part of what is tricky in being a founder is that you have to always appear as if you're on top of things. Um, because everybody is dependent on you. You can't look to your team very often as if you're struggling. Um, you certainly can't look like you're struggling to your investors uh, because they're the ones that are going to decide if they're going to give you more money at the end of that um, stint of previous uh, investment. And so there can be this pressure that forms to keep whatever struggles are happening internal. And um, there's quite a lot of research done on this. But founders do face significantly more mental health struggles than the norm. And um, yet it's very difficult for them to talk about it. So one of the things that we do with Climate Connection is we create events and environments where the only people in the room are the founders so that there isn't that sense that by sharing something, um, others in your company or people on your cap table who are going to invest in you are listening and may judge this. And we create environments where confidentiality can be maintained and where people can open up about the reality of what they're going through. And we've had some phenomenal Fireside Chat speakers come through and share. Hey look, when I was at this stage of building my company, here are the struggles that I faced, um, and here's the reality of building a healthy life for yourself alongside a healthy life for your business. Because if one fails, the other fails very often. And uh, you need the leaders that are building the technologies of tomorrow to be able to be the best versions of themselves. So destigmatizing that um, talking about mental health, creating resources for people to reach out to and um, access is uh, really important to me but also I think really important for our future world.

Speaker A: And I guess it also helps to um, when you've got a leader, um, who's aware of mental health issues, who's actually learning how to um, deal with it himself, it then becomes part of the company culture. So it's a top down view of what, it's a top down awareness if, yeah, if you've got a leader who's fully aware the social, of the um, of what the pressures are, it's got the tools to cope with any oncoming mental health issues.

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Then that could be fed down to managers, staff, and it's a, uh, it trickles down. So it becomes part of the company culture.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I, uh, still remember one of the leaders that I really look up to, um, who was the CEO of the Activate Fellowship when I was there and then moved over to the UK to become the CEO of Aria. Um, his name is Ilan, uh, Gur. And um, I remember being um, employed at Activate at the time that he was CEO and we went through the pandemic and some of what was most inspiring to me about him and his role in that company was how open he was, um, about the struggles that he was facing, his family was facing, um, creating an openness for all of us to then speak about that ourselves as we were going through that crisis. Um, and he's always been a leader that has very much led from that, um, from that sense that what matters is the people, um, that we need to build People first organizations. Uh, and he models that himself by showing up as a full human at work. And I think that is a beautiful, beautiful leadership that I certainly try to embody as well. Yeah.

Speaker A: Turning up as a full human. I like that. So, yeah, I just want to briefly, just make a comment, um, don't have to answer or say anything else, but um, I think you're a very particularly brave person to actually talk about your own, um, struggles in the past. And we do need more people to do that because, um, it's the only way we can. It only takes one person to, to express their vulnerability and what they've gone through for other people to find that they're not the only one and there's some reassurance that they're not on their own.

Speaker B: Absolutely. Um, I think for anyone who feels like they can speak about it, um, I definitely encourage it because the. We're very often met with an overwhelmingly positive response. Not necessarily in the moment, but down the line. Like you would be surprised how speaking out, um, one day can, you know, three months later lead someone to speak to you when they've spoken to no one else in their life. Um, and the impact that that can have on them and their own journey to get to open up in that way and to feel safe as a result of knowing that you're someone who has been through something similar and who's willing to have those conversations. It uh, can make a big difference to people.

Speaker A: It can. It can indeed. Um, I still feel there's not enough Been done. I mean there needs to be more talk about it. Um, do you find, um, obviously you're meeting people of all genders. Is there one gender that seems to struggle a little bit more than the others? I mean there's a lot of talk going out how men are finding it very difficult to express themselves, uh, in

Speaker B: terms of sharing emotions.

Speaker A: Yeah,

Speaker B: I think what I'll say is mental health in general is, is a, ah, very difficult topic to bring up because people still think that they're going to be judged for going through struggles. When you break a leg and you have, you know, a doctor sticks uh, a cast on you, everyone sort of visibly sees, oh look, they've got a broken leg, but they're still, you know, it's still Bob, Bob's got a broken leg, but it's still Bob. And Bob's going to be the exact same person in two or three months time, um, and is the exact same person right now that he just happens to, you know, have some crutches at the moment. And so physical injury in some ways is easier for people to be with, um, and easier for others around them to recognize um, what they're going through. And I think with one of the biggest pieces with mental health is that it's often invisible and um, people don't understand it as much because we don't talk about it. So the more we can talk about mental health, the more people become comfortable with having these conversations and then can be there for others in their life and they can have a greater depth of understanding of what other people are going through uh, the next time around that happens. Um, so whether it's men or women, um, you know, any gender, um, the, the struggle is very often the same. And I think what makes a difference is how many people in your life do you have who are willing to talk to you about it. And so I just encourage anyone and everyone to really lean into that and try and lend an ear and try and share what's going on for you to enable others to open up.

Speaker A: And if you've got the opportunity, reach out to somebody who you haven't spoken to a while and just check they're okay.

Speaker B: Mhm. Yeah, that's a great way of doing it. And I would say, you know, I, possibly because of the gender split in the entrepreneurial world, but um, I often end up having more conversations with men about mental health than women. A lot of male founders, um, have reached out to me and said hey look, like this is, thank you for speaking up about this. And this is what I'm going through. And that may be more representative of the fact that there are still less women in the entrepreneurial world, which is something that is changing over time. And I'm, uh, really proud and excited to see the trends move in a positive direction. But, um, yeah, it's, uh, I've experienced both,

Speaker A: and I think that's where we're going to leave it.

Speaker B: Well, thank you for having me, Bob.

Speaker A: It's been a pleasure and I've enjoyed the conversation. Um, again, uh, mental health is a difficult subject to bring up, but you can start the conversation with a simple text message. Contact somebody haven't spoken to for a while and just check it on them.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And, and remember also that how someone looks externally may not be there in a world. So that question of how are you? Really matters.

Speaker A: It does. It does indeed. Thank you, Juliet.

Speaker B: Thank you, Bob.

Speaker A: A huge thank you to Juliet for her time and a big thank you to our partners for their continued support. Vivid Inc. PR and social media marketing specialist for the event industry and eventflow, the secret weapon for event teams who've had it with PDF exhibitor manuals. I would love to hear what you think about this episode, so please leave a comment or head over to EPN Journal Community. The link is in the show notes. Don't forget to like and subscribe to get notifications of new episodes. And finally, thank you for listening.