AI vs Humanity: We Are in the Biggest Mental Health Crisis in History | Krista Kim

Speaker A: The lack of humanities in technology, in the ethics, in the culture of uh, Silicon Valley is a void that would create, ah, mega problems psychologically, socially, politically be devoid of culture and human connection. And that's exactly what happened since 2014. We are now in the biggest existential mental health crisis in human history. And uh, the tech as a manifesto was a precursor to that is foreshadowing what was going to happen in the future.

Speaker B: Welcome to the Edge of Show, your Gateway to the Web 3 Revolution. We explore the cutting edge of blockchain, cryptocurrency, NFTs, ordinals, DeFi gaming and entertainment. Plus how AI is reshaping our digital future. Join us as we bring you visionaries and disruptors pushing boundaries in this renaissance. This show is for the dreamers, disruptors and doers that are pumped about where innovation meets culture. This is where the future begins.

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Speaker D: So today we've got Krista Kim. She's an ultra contemporary artist, cultural leader. She's renowned for her exploration of digital consciousness. Um, she's the founder of tech is the techism movement. We'll learn more about that as we go here. Um, she's a uh, metaverse editor for Singapore Vogue and World, uh, Economic Forum cultural leader. She continues to push the boundaries of art and tech, inspiring a new dialogue and our new digital future. So welcome aboard the uh, Edge of AI.

Speaker A: Krista, thank you so much for the warm welcome. Ron. Nice to be here.

Speaker D: So, yeah, I mean it's an honor to have you here today. Your background, it's really diverse. There's so much out there on you, which means you've been busy. There's a lot that's gone on, so let's dive right in. You founded Techiesm Movement in 2014. Yeah. And how's it give us a bit of history on that and its intentions?

Speaker A: Well, I thank you. I invite everyone to check it out. Uh, you can Google Techism Manifesto. I wrote it in 2014 in response to my addiction to my smartphone, which was a new invention. Right. It was only 2014, so it was around for like less than four years. And um, I realized that I stopped using pen and paper. You know, I, you know, I come from this analog upbringing. Um, in school we would write Notes and everything was done in binders, very paper and pen and pencil. And then all of a sudden I, you know, we were all just uh, in the throes of a digital adaptation, right? And um, I felt, wow, what is this, um, what, what effects is this happening on me? And I was, I'm always thinking about, you know, my, my reaction to any new technology that's introduced, um, to our society. And I realized that the apps that were designed on the smartphone, uh, were not humane. In fact they were sociopathic, narcissistic, um, not designed for humanity, uh, not designed for optimizing us, but design.

Speaker D: I'm only going to interject because you detected what was going on very early. Um, I could recite all that in the last few years because it really hit me I didn't get it that early on. I'm a really big believer that there's something psychological about using a pen and paper and writing. You're producing something the other way also. But. And there's some advantages on both sides, but there is a psychological benefit to a pen and paper. That's just a personal opinion.

Speaker A: Do you elaborate on that silence and contemplation, you know, the moment to yourself to think, right, to think through the ideas that you are, you are reading or you are creating. And that silence is essential for any human being because we are hunters and gatherers. And when you think about how our brains are designed, it's to focus on one thing and execute it and to study it in depth. And we have to know ourselves right in that silence. When we have that interaction with the pen and paper, we reflect. And unfortunately with the advent of digital, uh, you know, the digital age and apps and unfortunately Web2, um, these companies are designing these apps to become predatory and use us as product and uh, to use us to gain monetary value. And so that is, and I knew back in 2014 that the lack of humanities in technology, in the ethics, in the culture of uh, Silicon Valley is a void that would create, ah, mega problems psychologically, socially, politically. Um, it just wouldn't be good because we would, we would basically, you know, um, be devoid of culture and human connection. And that's exactly what happened. Since 2014, we are now in the biggest existential mental health crisis in human history. And the uh, tech as a manifesto was a precursor to that is foreshadowing what was going to happen in the future. But really in, in speaking to the artistic community and the creative community in that know, when I was enrolled in a Master's of Fine art program at the time La Salle College of the Arts or a master's in digital art, I realized that there was a major silo between the arts and technology. And I knew that those two silos and the lack of a bridge is the void that needed to be filled because we need human expression and we need artists to participate in the arena of tech in order to guide the culture toward greater human connection. So that's what the tech is, the manifesto is really about.

Speaker D: So, so powerful. You, uh, know what came to me as you were talking is we have to write physically. Right. To get to know ourselves. Yeah, literally. And it is that you said something about the quiet moments of the quiet time.

Speaker A: Totally the thinking man. Rodan's thinking man. You think about that sculpture, and that's the human condition.

Speaker D: Yeah. Really, uh, really great. And. And so you took the path of not. Not hating on the tech, not. Not liking it as much as realizing the. The downside of it and trying to bridge the two through art. Right.

Speaker A: The tool. Okay, so I'm a. I believe, uh, in. In. In the, um, the writings of Marshall McLuhan. I'm a political science, um, major. Right. So, um, I really understand the power of words and especially when they're written down and how they can change the world. And I'm also a student of Marshall McLuhan. Medium is the message. Where any new technology that's introduced to, you know, scaled in society, um, has real effects on. On our psychology, our sociology, how we interact, how we are as human beings, how we develop and evolve. And, uh, you know, I. I always see it through that lens of the medium is the message. Um, so when I look at technology, I see it as a tool, and I don't hate it. It's scaled, so it's here. It's a Pandora's box. You can't put it back in the box. So what do you do with it? Well, you, as an artist, what you do is you show the possibilities of how the technology can be used as a mode of human expression and optimization and bringing people together. Because that's what art does. It's the power of bringing people together and, um, having that common ground that we are missing. The void is. Is here and we can feel it. People are looking for the connection because the algorithms. Here's the one thing that I've realized is that, um, technology, for the first time in history since the smartphone was introduced, uh, technology was leading culture instead of religion and, uh, humanities and arts is technology.

Speaker D: That one just took my breath away. I mean, you defined and I don't think the knowledge of that on some level is that novel. But defining it the way you just did brings it home.

Speaker A: Thank you. Yeah. So that has been, you know, the reflection as an artist. That has been, you know, uh, that's my brain and how it operates. And I can't explain it, but I connect those dots. And so my artistic practice has always been to look at the screen, for example, and the wizard screen. You know, we're addicted to the freaking screen. Our eyes are glued to the screen, and all those messages that bombard our retina, uh, into our. Into our brain. I mean, that. That's all programming us, right? And so I thought, why not create Zen on the screen? Why not create meditative experiences of Zen? Because I lived in Japan for three and a half years. I have a very, um, interesting sort of global, uh, global, uh, um, background in terms of where I've lived. I've lived in Seoul, Tokyo and Singapore, um, over a course of 13 years. And it was in Japan where I had my true formative artistic epiphany at the Rowanji Temple garden in Kyoto. And, um, it was at this garden where I realized, my goodness, my first encounter. I entered a state of Zen within 10 minutes of sitting there, because it was an immersive experience. It was designed by the monks 500 years ago with this technology of gardening that they were able to create the service to humanity that will always be relevant for millennia. Like, after us, it's going to be around, it will still be, I mean, relevant for us. And, uh, that's the power of art. And I thought, my God, I. I want to create immersive experiences of Zen. I want to carry this tradition forward from these Zen monks, and I, I want to bring it into the 21st century through digital. So, as you see behind me, I. I started creating these very Zen, um, color scapes because there's so much color and there's so much distraction and, and stuff going on on the screens. I wanted to just erase it all and just bring it down to its fundamental values of color, light and sound and just go there and go really, really minimal and just quiet the brain. And because I'm a meditator, I meditate twice per day. I practice transit of meditation. I believe in the incredible benefits of meditation and the fact that we need to quiet our minds. Meditation will save us from the machine, and art will save us from ourselves.

Speaker D: Well, that's a perfect lead up into heart, uh, space. Right. It's an installation at Art Dubai. That, uh, that was really Transformative in a lot of ways. Can you tell us about that a little bit?

Speaker A: Yes. So, um, moving on from um, you know, know, creating video art installations on screen and immersive experiences like um, Time Square. I did a takeover in February 2022. I thought, well, AI has now just entered our, you know, our, our collective consciousness. And it's a major thing now, it's a major force. And uh, we will see the world uh, as pre AI and post AI. And so when I was really just sort of observing what AI is, um, and learning more about it, um, there were, there are two things that come to mind. And as a political science major, I understand uh, the importance of sovereignty. Uh, individual sovereignty, meaning you own your own property and you could make your own decisions, you have free will within a society. Um, and that is the basically building blocks of uh, Western democracy is that we have our own individual sovereignty right under the law. It's protected. Well yeah, we can definitely own physical property. We can own physical assets however, and they're protected by the government, but they're protected, you know, and uh, that's what good government governance is about. But then when you think about the digital sphere, there should be no separation between our digital self in our physical self. They should be treated the same, one and the same. So currently in the surveillance capitalism system, uh, our digital data, which is an asset, is taken from us for free, exploited and monetized and the information is taken from us because we have no mode of keeping it and storing it. And there are no, there's no architecture to self custody data for now, uh, until up to this point. And uh, the predominant system is very much uh, you know, it's unethical and it is violating our human rights. Data is, is an asset, it should be recognized as an asset. Our digital assets should be protected by the law. We should have data sovereignty. And so reflecting on this issue because you know, if you look at a lot of social issues we have right now with being gaslit, we're being gaslit messages um, on our devices 24, 7 and it's not good for us. And what we need to do is to own our own data so that that data is not then used in, in algorithms to manipulate us.

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Speaker D: and there was a time not long ago, let's just talk about Web2 where someone owned the data. Either you owned it as an individual or some company owned it to gather the data. And that's just the way it was. Um, there's something newer. This is, you know, all this is setting the foundation for really, for our AI conversation. Everything we've talked about. I think it's an important foundation.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker D: But I'll give you an example of a project, um, for auto insurance. It came to me recently. I have a newer vehicle and whatever they sent me, I got an email, I realized they're analyzing how hard I hit the brakes, how fast I go, what time of day I drive, all of these things. Right. And it kind of haunted me for a quick moment. It's like, wait a minute, uh, all of this is data. That one subpoena that might not be justified. Right. Someone could grab all this and my exact word. But there's like the, the, the idea of privacy literally had gone away. But there is a Web3 project now that allows that data to be collected, but stored in such a way that they can write insurance based on all that data. So you can get individualized insurance instead of just zip code. Right. But that data gets anonymized, doesn't get kept, so they use it for good, but then it doesn't exist anymore.

Speaker A: Good.

Speaker D: And I don't know why I don't want everybody knowing exactly where I am at all times, but I just don't. I mean I grew up in an era where we had our sort of freedom and privacy and this feels like it's, it's taking it away. And I think a combination of Web3, certainly AI, um, and maybe even crypto in the example I, uh, got, I gave. I think crypto has to play a role in There somewhere. Right. But the. These. My gosh, you said pre AI versus post AI is the way they're going to look at the world at a later date. This M is kind of transition we're talking about here. So once again you've really illuminated things crystal clear.

Speaker A: Thank you. I mean whenever you think about, you can learn. We can learn from history, we can learn about how democratic um, you know, systems came. Came to be. And it's because people's sovereignty was protected and assets were protected by law. And we need to do the same for digital identity because as you know, the more power and surveillance that they get away with, they will keep on accumulating that power and they're not going to surrender it. It will only get worse and worse.

Speaker D: The way you're describing could be a government, could be a big company, but it could also be a thousand little companies it with that same and goal happening.

Speaker A: So yeah, when, when you think about the threat here, here's the existential threat, Ron, because with AI and with AGI around the corner, automatic general intelligence, which has its own, you know, decision, uh, making its own creative uh, you know, will, uh, people are going to be able to create really bad systems that can, you know, um, really harm society with the, with free data, with taking our data, our personal data and using it against us in. But, but the invasiveness of it is, is more profound than you think because you're talking about insurance company, well, medical insurance. What about biodata? Okay, so what about like now they're saying that just through observing children's uh, eye movements on their devices, you can predetermine whether they are their sexual orientation. So you know, the kind of um, Orwellian surveillance that, that we're looking at right now is a real existential threat. And it's fascism. It's fascist and it's actual true threat to the future of our human civilization. And as a person who understands like the steps that can be taken toward that Aelian future, what I wanted, I want to impart in the world through my art and through my advocacy for data sovereignty, are art installations that compel people to think about AI in a different way. Because quite frankly, you know, the uh, the monopolies, and I call them monopolies, the monopolies that are currently using um, AI and developing AI are very powerful. And if it's. It's only for commercial means and for means obviously that are not going to be in every individual's best interest. That is for sure. Because that is not their, that is not Their intention, their intention is to make as much money as possible. And I think that what we need to do is recognize that AI should be, um, a public good, that it should have very strong ethics and that making money should not be the top priority. It should be optimizing human potential and serving humanity. Think those should be, um, the, you know, the main pillars, uh, of developing AI and there should be uh, you know, a charter that is, you know, developed around the world around AI because it should be treated as such. It's more, it's a. More powerful than a nuclear weapon.

Speaker D: So how so? I, I don't think there's many people that would disagree with what you said. And that is the dream and that is what should happen. But unfortunately a lot of life isn't built on shoulds. They're built on, built on the way things actually end up happening. And look at the, the regulators had a hard time regulating Web2, a hard time regulating crypto. I don't know what chance they stand at regulating AI that's moving at warp speed. I think what we're going to see three months from now we haven't even considered yet. Right? That's how quick it's moving. So I don't know how a government study and people corral all that. And maybe they can to some degree. I certainly hope no, ballistically they can. Um, but I think it's a big challenge. Is there a way in which us as individuals can operate in the web3 and in the AI world and protect ourselves from all that without us having to rely on whether it's regulators or the integrity of big companies?

Speaker A: You were definitely correct in saying that Web3 and uh, blockchain would be instrumental in helping us preserve our, our data sovereignty. And that is in fact the case. Blockchain technology. And I think that NFTs in the first hype cycle of NFTs is really just, you know, it was a hype cycle. It was the intro of NFTs and it, um, let's say say it as it is, you know, um, it was an absolute, uh, disaster the way that it was uh, executed. Um, you know, these board apes and all of these PFP projects, it really became a casino in the end, which was not the intention. The real use, uh, case for Blockchain will be to, to basically help us um, authenticate our, our digital assets and authenticate our digital identity, which would be very interesting against the existential threat of AI creating deep fakes of us and trying to defraud others using our fake identities, etcetera and even creating, uh, derivatives of ip, uh, creators, ip, et cetera. Like, as an artist, I'm extremely cognizant of the threat of, um, fakes of my art and uh, you know, this widespread monetization of my IP without, uh, you know, any direct benefit to myself.

Speaker D: And yeah, yeah, we've interviewed a couple companies and one of them was focused on audio. So they're literally creating a library so you can go in and put your own voice in there. They'll certify it was you. And then any fakes that come out or get measured against that and the AI actually says 90 chance this is a fake. They kind of analyze it. Same thing with images and videos. And they'll actually give you a heat map of yourself comparing an AI generated one to your original one, which you put on file. So these are solutions. Solutions. Right. And they're probably going to look different than that ultimately, but these things are happening and I think they're critically important. There's a lot of people that don't spend their lives in Web three of any kind. And they'll hear this and it seems pretty.

Speaker A: They don't need to, uh. It's going to be invisible soon. It will be invisible.

Speaker D: Right, that, that, that's exactly right. So tell me a little bit about that. I know we mentioned Heart Space, but give us a little more detail on Heart Space.

Speaker A: So when I, when I met, uh. Oh, by the way, I just wanted to mention you were asking, like, how can the individuals deal with this, this crisis and how can they be informed? There is a book that's coming out by my friend Michael Clark, Data Revolution in January. Michael Clark actually was on the show, right?

Speaker D: Yes, that's right. I recall, I interviewed him. Yes.

Speaker A: And we actually worked very closely together, um, as well in Julia AI. And I think that, you know, um, in this moment there is going to be a cultural, uh, movement toward data sovereignty because it is just the natural right thing to do. It's. I mean, people will gravitate what works for them.

Speaker D: Michael spoke very eloquently about that as well.

Speaker A: So, uh, brilliant.

Speaker D: Of course, without reading it, I can say I'm probably endorsing that book. It's probably going to be great. He's such a brilliant guy.

Speaker A: Well, the more, the more advocacy and the more education, the better. And um, definitely there are going to be projects popping up, uh, within the next few years that are going to provide solutions, as you had mentioned. And Heart Space, um, is, uh, is a project that I worked on, sponsored by Julie Spare for art Dubai. Earlier this year, um, I met a company called Tenbeo AI based in Brussels. The CEO Atalas Cratuni and I were friends and, uh, immediate friends. She's a brilliant woman who created this protocol, AI Generative protocol, taking your ECG heartbeat and then creating a unique heart signature out of it. Because every human being has unique heartbeat feet.

Speaker D: I literally was not aware of that as soon as I heard you say it makes total sense.

Speaker A: It's very spiritual, isn't it? It's, it's, ah, it's very poetic and spiritual, I find. And I, I love that concept. Right. I mean we all share that. Wonderful. And it's, it's very soulful. You know, it connects us on a spiritual level. And the good thing is that this, this technology is unhackable by AI because it is an electromagnetic circuit that you create when you enter your, your ECG on a device. You have to be alive and you have to be Krista Kim. You have to be Ron Levy to actually input the information. Right? So everything else that is, uh, visible can be hacked or, or copied by AI, but the heartbeat is, is different. And so, uh, this is a solution that she uses for banks and high government security, physical locations, etc. And um, I was so, you know, inspired by the poetic aspect of the message of the heartbeat. And I thought, wow, when you think about AI and the future of AI and how we're going to communicate, if we can communicate using our biometrics, like our heartbeats, and we can eventually communicate with plants, we can communicate with trees, we can understand how the soil is doing, we can understand the oceans and animals and whales and wildlife. I mean, think about the scope of transcendent communication we can have based on that data alone. Right? And if we, if we could, because the, the heartbeat emits an emotion, that algorithm, you can actually tell how people feel. So with this information and could be, of course we're not going to give away our, our data, but just that information, if it's anonymous, then we can tell how people are doing and have more empathy in the world. Right. And use that in a way that, that can bring people together. And so that's what heart space is. It's, it's demonstrating through four inputs at a time in an immersive space. We have four plinths, four devices, input devices. We have an immersive space. And on the screen you have a beautiful flow fields, waveforms that are created by each individual because each individual has their own unique color of their emotion and the waveform and the movement. And the movement. So when they input four people at a time, you can see the co creation of an artwork that is like a social fabric. And I really wanted to use that symbolism of social fabric because our social fabric has been destroyed for so many years. And I think that AI actually has a chance to help bring that back, to transcend that. And that's the message behind Heart Space, which we're touring around the world.

Speaker D: Is there a relationship between one person's heart rhythm that you described that you can now measure? Right.

Speaker A: Yes.

Speaker D: And I'll call it a fingerprint of their, their heartbeat, um, and someone else's. And because we've all done this, you walk into a room, there's someone there that we just really get along with very quickly. And there's other people, we just don't. Right. So is that, is there something that can be measured with that or is there a link to those two things?

Speaker A: Well, I. This. So, uh, this particular artwork doesn't measure that coherence, but I'm sure you can. 100% you can, Ron. And that's, that's what I'm talking about. We can measure coherence. We can measure that. We can. And Discord. We, we can figure that out. We can see it live.

Speaker D: So look at this. This, this podcast and the purpose of it is AI. And this is for our listeners. Uh, all of this, this conversation is directly and indirectly about AI and the part of it that's indirectly. And maybe some people are saying, where's the meat for AI itself? AI is a study in itself. You've got to understand these nuances because as you learn of new projects and you start interacting with it, these conversations are going to make you realize things that you wouldn't otherwise realize. And I think they'll make you either embrace that particular one or run away from it. Right. And so I think it's foundational to the industry. Can you speak to that comment a little bit?

Speaker A: There's a lot of fear around AI.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Isn't there? You feel that, right? People like us understand AI, so we probably don't are not as fearful or maybe we are, but I feel, I

Speaker D: might say that it creates more fear the more you understand. But keep going.

Speaker A: Yeah, well, here's, here's my point. Um, I, I believe that AI is an existence. Existential threat, definitely without data sovereignty. If we don't have the architecture to control our own data, self custody our own data, and also monetize on our own data, then we will be slaves to the matrix. I believe that. But if we are. If, uh, and there are system. There's now a project actually that I'm involved in. It's called Julia AI. And I'm not going to tell too much about it because it's still in stealth mode. But this company is really looking at, um, creating an offline personal AI model. Why do we need to be part of a Borg, a giant LLM? Like, why is that really necessary for the average person when all you really need to do is have a plugin to an AI that knows you, that protects your data, is offline, that knows everything about you, every minutiae of your life, all of your characteristics, all of the people that you communicate with, what you communicate with, what's going on in your life, what are the nuances of your life, know everything about you, know your weaknesses and your strengths, and is your guardian.

Speaker D: It's really powerful. And then you get into your own digital twin that could become an avatar that actually goes about the metaverse, goes about the world as you and the, you know,

Speaker A: lives forever and can give advice to your progeny.

Speaker D: I love that.

Speaker A: And then your, your AI guardian. See, what, what. All I need to know is how my AI guardian can basically personify me and enhance my own personal capabilities, uh, just like any other language model would, of course. And, and basically I can modulate it and design it how I want. So if I want your expertise, let it run, and I want to collaborate with you on a project or know about something you're an expert on, then I can plug into yours, you know, for a fee or for free, for friends, network with each other, exchange ideas and have huge information and ways to move forward. And I think that as a child, as children, um, this is the possibility of creating, creating, uh, your greatest, um, tutor, your protector, your doctor, your coach, uh, you know, this is going to be, uh, the future of how we're going to optimize every human being because we are against large language models and we are against AGI. And if we're going to be placed in the arena of AGI, we need to have a super intelligent that represents us and protects our interests.

Speaker D: One of the big differences between the world of, uh, Web two and Web three was with Web two, we gave away our data without really realizing how powerful it was going to be for others. Right? We didn't really know it. At a certain point we knew it, but the sort of cat's out of the bag and it's just, you know, we had to live with it.

Speaker A: That data is an Asset which Michael Clark talks about.

Speaker D: Yes, it is absolutely an asset. And so what you're describing is something we can protect. So we could have that digital twin that, that, that AI agent, I'll call it, that learned us as individuals that we control. And the difference is they can't do a change of terms and service and take it away. It's got to live in a theory. Absolutely control. And if someone wants a piece of it to change or anything else, we have the ability to approve or disprove that. We have full autonomy over that. And that is absolutely one of the biggest differences going into Web three that is critical.

Speaker A: I mean, this is what Zuckerberg made a big announcement recently. Right? That's a huge announcement, Ron, that um, he uh, would be able to create, that we would live with. Like there would be billions of AI, uh, agents. And that's true. He actually made llama open source. That's a big difference. With open AI, which is supposed to be open, it's a complete, uh, you know that.

Speaker D: Right. There was a lawsuit filed against them later drop. But I think people are just figuring out what to do because there will

Speaker A: be many lawsuits because YouTube is already going to sue them for all of the copyright and all of the IP that they are scraping. They're scraping IP from all of these major platforms and they're scraping information from us.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: So we have to change that paradigm so that we are empowered with our own AI. Personal LLMs, small LLMs, and they're smarter too. Think about this. How smart is a major LLM that you on a chatgpt that you, that you are, um, working with, collaborating with on a daily basis that only has inputs on certain tasks that you're doing or, you know, things that you are sharing with it. Like. But is, is it really, does it

Speaker D: really know you know, you and also the data it's giving you? Because if you use AI on subjects you know something about, how often do you get answers that you need to correct? They're wrong. Right. But imagine you're using it for a subject you don't know much about, you're trying to learn, and you're getting incorrect information.

Speaker A: So the best way to do, do it, and I'm sure you'll probably agree, is to um, basically, uh, speak or inter. Interact or collaborate with the AI guardians, uh, of the experts that you need information on.

Speaker D: Yeah. Wow, there you go. Now you've bypassed that whole middle ground.

Speaker A: Yeah, uh, you don't need a large, yeah, you don't need a super large language model. That has no expertise and people are not going to share their expertise with a larger language mod. People are so afraid of sharing all of their IP. Let's protect our IP and let's, let's, you know, really create super smart LLMs, smaller LLMs, personalized, that are really going to change the world because that's where we're going to have a superpower of building, um, solutions for the world's problems on that level of like personalization and hyper productivity, hyper scalability, hyper intelligence.

Speaker D: So important because it is out of the genie's out of the bottle, it's moving forward. And um, I kind of go back to one of my earlier questions is how do we m. I, how do we make sure we all these, I think very important points you're bringing up are actually adhered to. And maybe that's how we do it, through educating individuals and having the individual be able to make their own decisions and do this.

Speaker A: Uh, there is an education crisis. Right? You're right, Ron. It's education right now. It's all about educating the entire world on not only like data privacy and data sovereignty, but how do you, how do you create your own AI guardian? And with an offline LLM like Julia AI, um, how do you use it and how do you build your own AI guardian? And the whole world will get into this. This is going to be, um, I think the solution, um, for, for education. This is. I mean when you look at the current education system, my children are in high school and I'm like, wow, like this is really redundant. I mean, like, they're going to school. It's like none of this is going to be relevant. Why am I even playing this charade? Like I want to build this AI education model for the kids to learn because they're going to learn from AI and then adults in the room, teachers, mentors, they're going to be what they're supposed to be. They're going to guide society and create a village of, you know, stewardship of the next generation through character ethics, um, advice, wisdom. I mean, creating community. The school system needs to be completely revamped.

Speaker D: Yeah, I like that you added those things at the end. Because that was what was coming up for me was, um, schools and just about, about um, knowing things, right? How to do math, how to do this, how to do that. That's certainly one part of it and it's very important. But not without the other part, which is how to think, how to learn, how to interact. Those are critical. You can't lose them and the computer can't give you that.

Speaker A: No computer can't give you that. But you know what's exciting? The way I see like how kids can interact because they're already on Roblox, they're already collaborating, they're already doing cool things together. They've got their own incredible subculture. I think that if they have their own AI guardians, right? And they have their own interests, their own geniuses and their own. Every child has a genius, right? We all believe that. Yeah, they're plugged into that. They know it, they're optimized with their AI guardian. And if there's a, an issue or a problem that they want to solve and you know, they want to get together and do it, they can collaborate and their AI guardians can help them facilitate that. And then of course get experts and mentors and people plugged in and all of these Lego, like LEGO stacking it. And you know, it's, it's super learning. It's like you're, you're learning in the field of how to collaborate and how to create solutions.

Speaker D: Yes. I want to change gears a little bit because there's more to cover here than we're going to have time for, unfortunately. But I want to make sure we hit on a few things. One is the international side of the industry, the AI industry and of you combined. So um, you're, you, you advise the World Economic Forum, you've been to art Dubai with your art. By the way, it's amazing how little time we spent talking about your art, um, which is a big takeaway here because you are infamous for your art, your digital art and uh, we want to hit that. But I also know you've talked a lot about Korea, South Korea and what they've been doing. Um, um, maybe three or four years ago, uh, I was in South Korea and I got taken through a particular building, I think it was north of Seoul that the government built, um, for, for a, uh, for new startup companies to house them, all get government grants and they, they would. Beautiful building. If any of you or listeners are from la, you know the Blue Whale and the design buildings in, in Hollywood, which Kristen, I know you're familiar with, it looked like that. State of the art, all glass, beautiful. And these, these startup companies were in there getting supported and they were, they divide the floors so that they could help each other. Right? Very collaborative, but the government was behind it. And I walked through there and I was just mind blown to say how much is going on in South Korea because of the attitude of the Government backing that and giving power to young developers within the AI space. I know you've talked about it a lot and I don't know what your connection is over there, what your thoughts are. I guess we'll broaden it out so that internationally what's going on, what can continue to be born and live here versus elsewhere. And then of course the power South Korea might be getting, which I love. Right. Independent power, um, because they're so uh, in, into the industry.

Speaker A: Um, I think that Korea is, is one, one major uh, focus. But I think that the Middle east now is also really emerging as well. UAE and Saudi.

Speaker D: You just got back from Riyadh with edge of companies as well, correct?

Speaker A: Yes, I participated in the uh, the Outer Edge conference which is incredible. Co hosted by neom. And the NEOM project is a good thing to mention because uh, it's, it's pretty groundbreaking in that uh, they want to create a conscious city. They're very futurist and they're very um, they're very breakthrough in, in the new concepts they want to introduce. They want to introduce concepts that have never been developed before. You know, stuff that has never been repeated. You know, new starting from first principles. Right. So how do you create a conscious city once again, you know, the, the Julia AI model of creating your own personal AI that you know, that communicates with the NEOM AI and they can, you know, if good governance is when the data is accurate and the, the, the government is able to disperse resources where they're needed with the data. It's not guesswork, it's not like analog, it's not guessing and it's not lobbying interest. Right. And so that, that's the ideal scenario. And I think that you know, it's exciting to see how Dubai has become a real um, central hub for that as well. Toronto of course historically with the University of Toronto. Professor Jeff Hinton, um, is an OG and uh, one of the founders of like AI studies period. Um, and I, I, I, I think that you know, of course MIT is a very important place as well. And, and Switzerland I think globally it's exciting. Um, but the real sort of data sovereignty movement which I'm very excited about is really coming out of the EU and out of the Middle east. And I think that's where things have to head. There has to be a, a balance. And um, I think that you're going to see much more of that I think with the, the current um, you know, um, you know, power of the web, two companies in the U.S. um, you're not going to see as much innovation in that sense. But the spirit of that exists here and um, I, I'm not, I'm not losing hope. I think that there is. It's uh, kind of like um, uh, you know, it. Data sovereignty is something that um, that's a very American values. Very, very much deeply rooted in, in American values actually.

Speaker D: I agree with that. And that's uh, again I never heard it said like that, but I think it's exactly right and the industry absolutely needs it. So let's make sure we hit a little more your art. So you talked about Heart Space, Continuum. We, we touched on it. But talk um, about Times Square a little bit, what you did there. And I think you've got uh, you've got it going on, on. I'm not sure what city it was internationally. Talk, talk to us about that a little bit.

Speaker A: Well, I mean Continuum is uh, is a meditative video, um, sound and light experience. It's immersive and currently we're showing it, I'm showing it Outernet London. Um, the Outernet is the largest LED screen immersive um space in Europe. It's at Sharing Cross and it's a free public art installation space. And uh, there is some wonderful art being displayed there. It's well curated and I was part of that for Digital Art Week. We started earlier in the year, I think it was April and it's continuing until October. Uh, the next Continuum, um, installation will be at Sunderland in the UK on a giant new screen that was uh, placed there and um, and that will start in sun September. Uh, I also have a plan to go to the Dominican Republic and show Continuum, uh, in a, in a major um, space in the center of the city with a developer there. And uh, that will be in November. So Continuum is continuing um, you know, to show around the world and I, I basically collaborate with people on the ground. The message is basically to create a meditative space um, in the, in a public realm so that people have like a sense of wellness in the city and that Times Square was like the, the ultimate uh, you know, exposition, um, exhibition for, for Continuum. Uh, we took over 111 screens uh, right after the pandemic February of 2022. I had presented a proposal to Times Square Arts that runs that programming in 2018. So it took us a few years to, to actually do the show but I was very happy to do it especially after Covid. And it was the right message at the right time and it was viral on Tick Tock to the Point where, um, Coca Cola was the only brand that didn't participate. They had a very large tower behind the bleachers. When you, you know, when you were in Times Square and a, uh, lot of Gen Z tiktokers were saying, you know, f Coca Cola, they don't care about us. And, uh, it's quite funny because time, you know, uh, the, the curator, uh, um, Jean Cooney, she told me, Christa, Coca Cola got on the phone and they called me and they asked me to include them into the programming after your exhibition. So it was quite powerful that it

Speaker D: really is a, I mean, you're so multidimensional. But the art, I think, is at the core of it.

Speaker A: Um, I see it all as art, Ron. I, to me, it's all art. I actually think that Steve Jobs is an artist.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And I see Elon Musk as an artist in some, uh, ways as well.

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: And it's all work because the, every, every like project, startup project that I do has never been done before. And it's a vision that, you know, a lot of people think is crazy. But, um, you know, that's what it takes. If, uh, you know, if, when you're ahead of your time or you, you just see things, you know, enroll. Unfolding, I just have that, that uh, ability to, you know, to sort of predict what's going to happen. And so I just became an entrepreneur by mistake. But, um, but truly I, I, I see it all as art. And I literally wake up every day excited to, to work on all these project sites. All very creative and artistic to me.

Speaker D: So as we do, as you describe yourself, and some of that, it's, um, you know, did, did AI come to you or did you, you come to AI is. I'll leave it as an open question. We don't need to answer that. But that becomes a rhetorical question a little bit. Right. Because not just you, others within the industry, it's the same thing. It's kind of, how did I, how did I get here? And I, uh, I was listening to a, uh, great interview of Michael Saylor last, uh, week. And yeah, in the interview he said he was about to retire on the beach, which of course he could have, and, you know, resigned from being CEO of MicroStrategy and just basically be retired and do nothing. That's when he dug deep and he found Bitcoin. And he said it was like a rebirth. And, and now he, he doesn't have enough time to do everything he wants to do. And I think that's true. For a lot of us, um, he's just able to state things crystal, crystal clear the way, the way only he can.

Speaker A: But so eloquent.

Speaker D: When you start understanding this deeply, you start understanding the change that, that's under our feet and it's, it's super scary and super exciting. And I'll say it actually, it's super exciting, super scary and super exciting all at the same time.

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Speaker D: Where could they go, where could the listeners go to dig deeper on what you just said, on the architecture, what to look for, how to do it? Because you just brought up a very solid point. Any suggestions?

Speaker A: To be very honest with you, Ron, this stuff is all very new. What I just told you right now is so bleeding edge that there's no resources for it. People are just starting it now. And that's the thing about the timeline for the time horizon for a is so fast, so short that you know, things like this that I'm saying right now literally just started a few weeks ago.

Speaker D: Yes, now. And that's what I've been finding from the beginning. Look at GPT chat. GPT came out November of uh, 22, which is about a year and a half ago. And, and what's happened each and every day is the snowball growing. And what you just said is really powerful. And I guess I've got in my mind, any listeners here, the ones that are in the industry and spending hours and hours and hours on this, they'll figure it out. They'll figure out all these things.

Speaker A: Things.

Speaker D: But I'd like to be inclusive of people that actually have other jobs, other, you know, demands on their time and they don't have countless hours per week to do this. Um, so I guess with that I would just say go to Llama, just start playing, Put in 10 minutes a day, 30 minutes a day, whatever you could do, touch on it. And I, I think the learning process will come out of that. Do you agree with all that?

Speaker A: Yeah. And yeah. And stay tuned. I will. I, I can actually follow up with more information. You know, we can always do another show show and we can deep dive. And you have to meet Imani Wadi, who is the, um, the founder of uh, you know, um, of uh, Julia AI. He would be a fantastic guest to have. Because see, here's. Here's the thing. This is the shift now. We're moving away from the classic, um, sort of uh, image that we have of a Silicon Valley like uh, tech. Tech, uh, developer. Right. It's no longer going to be that. It's going to be kids. It's going to be people in all different fields using AI to architect whatever they need and putting it together. And I think that's the future of how we're going to educate kids of how to use AI. We're actually developing through Julia, AI, um, education programs to actually help people know how to do it. So make it easy. Make it as easy as playing Roblox. It should be like gamified and easy and fun, right?

Speaker D: Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, and I also recommend everybody should be reading as much as they can on Michael Clark's blogs. Michael Clark, Data Scholar. You could find him on LinkedIn. And he's dropping that book in January, so keep your eye out on that. But he's, he's done. Podcast. Watch your podcast with, with, uh, Michael Clark and yeah, go.

Speaker D: You can go into, uh, edge of AI XYZ as a, as a URL, or go on YouTube and search it from Michael Clark because we interviewed him. It's been quite a while now, which is kind of great because it still stands up tremendously.

Speaker A: Oh, it is. And, and let me tell you, I mean he's. He's basically um, advising world governments on data sovereignty policies. And he's also created, uh, you know, these reports and, and um, proposals that are being implemented, uh, as we speak. So there is a huge push for this, huge interest and really great.

Speaker D: So let's, uh. I want to, I want to kind of wrap up, but I want to wrap up with, uh, first of all, is there anything that you wanted to cover that we didn't? And please let us know the best places for people that want to follow your work and what you're doing, where they should go to do that.

Speaker A: I believe that we have covered everything that um, uh, we need to cover. And if you want to find me, you can Google me. So. Krista K R I S T A K I M and my, um, website is kristakimstudio.com I'm available on all social media channels. And um, and uh, LinkedIn is great as well. LinkedIn. I use LinkedIn a lot. I like it. And uh, yeah, I'm. It's, uh, a pleasure to chat with you, Ron. So much fun.

Speaker D: Krista. Thank you so much. I've absolutely enjoyed it and I, I know a lot of our, uh, you're going to, we're going to have a lot of viewings on this one. It's. It's been really, really great. So with that, it's time for another safe landing at the outer edges of the AI universe. For today, this is your captain, Ron. And um, on behalf of our guest and the entire crew, I'd like to thank you for choosing to voyage with us today. We wish you a safe and enjoyable continuation of your journey.

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