The Dining Table · 2026-08-04 · 19 min
Key moments - from our scoring
Substance score
45 / 100
Five dimensions, 20 points each
David Mandalow executes his long-held concept of chaining chef recommendations across a city by interviewing Chicago culinary leaders about their favorite dining spots. Mike Setenover, the ramen specialist behind Akahoshi Ramen, gravitates toward Daisy's in Logan Square for its three distinct programs - pastry, lunch, and dinner - all made from scratch with meticulous attention to detail. Chef Joe Frillman of Daisy's splits his picks between Club Lucky, a red-sauce Italian classic in Bucktown beloved for its marinara and fried calamari, and Noriko Hand Roll Bar, where he holds a standing monthly reservation. Andrew Lim and Thomas Oh from Noriko recommend Cellar Door Provisions on Diversey (chef Ethan's 20-seat concept) and El Che, John Manion's wood-fired restaurant downtown. Manion favors Les Bouchon, the three-decade Poulette family bistro now run by Leon and Obalikes, plus Assador Bastion on Erie Street for steaks sourced from dairy cows. Doug Saltas and Sing Chen of Assador Bastion pick Spaccanapoli (Jonathan Goldsmith's Neapolitan pizza) and Etoco (Gene Cato's clean, technique-driven spot). Stephanie Hart of Brown Sugar Bakery recommends Lutz Bakery and Abundance Bakery on the South Side, with mentions of French pastry spots like Vindi.
Daisy's operates three completely different programs - pastry, lunch, and dinner - and makes everything from scratch with high quality and attention to detail across all three, earning Setenover's respect through the same commitment to scratch cooking he practices at Akahoshi Ramen.
Frillman maintains a monthly four-top reservation on the first Tuesday of every month and has visited over 20 times because the 20-seat restaurant offers consistency, personalized service, exceptional cocktails (particularly Negronis), and a menu that never changes but always delivers excellence.
Thomas Oh is obsessed with El Che's wood-fired cooking, which imparts both heat and flavor while requiring significant skill and operational investment; he views John Manion as a mentor and Chicago hospitality icon who embodies shared values around good people and making diners feel valued.
Goldsmith is a purist focused on ingredients and technique who sources many ingredients through personal discoveries on trips to Italy, acting as an educator for other chefs while offering clean, satisfying meals away from flashy trends.
Etoco's fried chicken wings come with a bag of spices that diners shake at the table like shake-and-bake, though Gene Cato's team warns not to use the entire spice bag due to the heat level.
Our reviewer’s read on each dimension, with quotes from the episode.
The episode consists almost entirely of restaurant recommendations and personal anecdotes about chefs' favorite places to eat. There are virtually no novel ideas, frameworks, or non-obvious claims that would educate a B2B operator. The occasional insight about 'making things from scratch' or wood-fire cooking is mentioned but never explored with depth or nuance.
It's like a lot of restaurants are buying product from Cisco or some pre made prefab thing and putting in a deep fryer, putting in an oven and selling it to you and calling it their own thing.
I am absolutely obsessed with food cooked over wood fire. Um, Andy and I, we talk about it quite every once in a while. I just think that I worked in a concept before where we cooked food over Fire every night. And, um, you know, something about it, it's just magical.
The format of chefs recommending restaurants is a straightforward chain-of-recommendations concept. The framing lacks any contrarian perspective, first-principles thinking, or counterintuitive claims. The observations about restaurant quality are conventional and predictable - sourcing, consistency, craft - recycled values that dominate chef discourse.
The one I always seem to gravitate to more than any other single restaurant in Chicago is Daisy's.
My favorite restaurant, um, is Les Bouchon. And I couldn't be happier for what the kids are doing over there.
The guest roster includes legitimate, practicing chefs and restaurant owners with demonstrated track records (Mike Setenover of Akahoshi Ramen, Joe Frillman of Daisies, John Manion of El Che, Doug Saltas and Sing Chen of Assador Bastion). However, the episode doesn't extract substantial operational or business insight from them - they function primarily as recommendation sources rather than as practitioners discussing their craft or strategy.
Mike Setenover, the man who, after training in northern Japan, has the well deserved title of the Ramen Lord.
I've known chef John Manion from El Che and Bracero fame since he was cooking at Moss on West Division in the late 1990s.
The episode is packed with specific restaurant names, locations, and addresses (Daisy's on Milwaukee, Club Lucky in Bucktown, Noriko Hand Roll Bar, El Che, Les Bouchon, Assador Bastion on Erie Street). However, the 'evidence' is largely anecdotal preference rather than data-driven. There are minimal numbers, metrics, financials, or operational specifics that would be useful to a B2B operator beyond restaurant addresses.
His place, Akahoshi Ramen on California Avenue is one of the best, if not the best ramen restaurants in all of Chicago.
I have a standing four top reservation the first Tuesday of every month. I have been there, uh, over 20 times, so.
The host asks open-ended follow-up questions and shows genuine curiosity about chefs' preferences (e.g., 'Do you sit at the bar?' or asking about go-to dishes). However, follow-ups rarely push for deeper operational insight or challenge claims. The conversation is warm and clubby but lacks the rigor needed to extract strategic or business-level learning. Most exchanges settle for surface-level preference sharing.
Do you sit at the bar? Do you sit in the restaurant?
And tell me why it's great.
Computed from the transcript - who did the talking, and the words that came up most.
Over the past several years, host David Manilow has heard from Chicago’s greatest chefs about where they go to dine. In this episode, hear those recommendations and what kind of hospitality is most appealing to them. Manilow has assembled suggestions from another list of award-winning chefs including John Manion, Hsing Chen, Doug Psaltis, Stephanie Hart, Oliver Poilevey and more. Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.
Transcribed and scored by The B2B Podcast Index.
Speaker A: I'm David Mandalow and welcome to the Dining Table. On the table this week. You know, years ago, I had an idea for a TV show where I'd go to a town and get dining recommendations from their local chefs. The twist was that it would progress from chef to chef, so all the restaurants would be connected in some way. In other words, the first chef would recommend his favorite spot, and then the chef from that spot would recommend her favorite, and then the chef from that restaurant would recommend their favorite, and so on and so on. I think you get the picture. So on this episode, I'm going to give this concept a try with a slew of some of the fantastic Chicago chefs, uh, I've interviewed over the past several years. I hope you enjoy it and get some great ideas for places to dine out as well. And first up, Mike Setenover, the man who, after training in northern Japan, has the well deserved title of the Ramen Lord.
Speaker B: In terms of my favorite restaurant in Chicago, I am still an avid eater. Like, I love to go out to eat, so there are many.
Speaker A: His place, Akahoshi Ramen on California Avenue is one of the best, if not the best ramen restaurants in all of Chicago. And his selection is in nearby Logan Square.
Speaker B: The one I always seem to gravitate to more than any other single restaurant in Chicago is Daisy's.
Speaker C: Ah.
Speaker B: Uh, it was not even a hard question for me.
Speaker A: Interesting.
Speaker B: Down the street, not too far from SO1. Convenient. My God. Like I'm there a lot of the time. Like a couple times, at least once a week usually on there. But I think the reason I really love daisies is they have three completely different programs. They have a pastry program, a lunch program, and a dinner program. And I just think they knock it out the park from scratch on, um, all of those things. Like they make from scratch product with really high quality and attention to detail across three different programs. And it's always super delicious. I've never had a bad meal there. I often have astounding meals there where I leave being, like, angry because the food was so good. That's how I know the food is good.
Speaker C: That's good.
Speaker B: I'm like, leaving, like, what the fuck? How did they come up with that? That is insane.
Speaker A: You said from scratch two or three different times, so that must be. Yeah, that resonates. One of the reason. One of the reasons that you really like it.
Speaker C: Yes.
Speaker B: And because we make everything from scratch at Akahoshi. And I think that that's. To me, when you go to a restaurant and this is something I learned as I grew my own restaurant. It's like a lot of restaurants are buying product from Cisco or some pre made prefab thing and putting in a deep fryer, putting in an oven and selling it to you and calling it their own thing.
Speaker D: Right.
Speaker B: And so I just have a lot more respect for someone who says, you know, we're going to make this our own way. Even though it's harder. It is harder to make pasta from scratch. It is harder to make noodles from scratch. It is harder to make all the sauces. It's harder to make a beverage program that has like four or five different shrub based sodas where you're making all these ferments that go into these different things. That's hard work. And so it's sort of like a game recognized game thing where it's like I feel like a little, a small fish in a big pond and we're making five dishes from scratch and they're m making 15, 20. It's just very impressive. And there it's delicious. I just know how much work it is and so I just have immense amount of respect for it, you know.
Speaker A: No, but symbolically it says, uh, something and not everybody recognizes it. But you do because you live it.
Speaker B: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker A: Yeah. So that's it.
Speaker B: That restaurant is fire, though.
Speaker A: Joe Frillman is the chef owner behind Daisies. And I was actually just in southwest Michigan over the past weekend. And several of the restaurants there source from Drillman Farms that his brother runs, including Postboy in New Buffalo. And as a shameless plug, Postboy is my recommendation in this week's Dining table newsletter. So check it out if you can. And when I interviewed Joe, I couldn't get him to choose only one of his favorites. So he offered up two very different spots. One that's just under three miles south of his place Jesus on Milwaukee Avenue. And the other is an old school Italian classic in Bucktown.
Speaker E: And one of them is Club Lucky because it's the place that I just always go. Um, I love red sauce Italian food so much. I love fried calamari so much. Um, uh, is it a robust. Is it like the most, uh, dynamic.
Speaker A: I don't mean to be laughing, like out loud. Do you sit at the bar? Do you sit in the restaurant?
Speaker E: I always go. Um, we started going with my kids because we used to live. We used to live in Logan Square at uh, corner across from Margie's candies and Arturo's tacos.
Speaker A: Oh my God, sure.
Speaker E: Um, and so, uh, we would, we Started taking our kids there all the time. And it just became one of those places where it was like, man, like my kids, they love that food. Uh, it's like, you know, marinara and, uh, and the, the, um, the. The noodles and the, the bread and the service and big martini. Ah, it's like old school.
Speaker A: Yeah. Uptown.
Speaker E: Yeah. I mean, if Bruno's restaurante and it was closer. It's on like 23rd, I would have gone there a lot more. But, um, the other one, I go to Noriko once a month and that is.
Speaker A: Oh, yeah, but not with the kids.
Speaker E: That is not with the kids.
Speaker A: No, because, I mean, that place, that. They're killing it and that place is so great. And I sat with them when they first opened it just like, just had the most lovely time. I think my wife has recommended to 75 people. Uh, but. But you. It's really a good place for like a date or two people because as you extend it out, you can't talk to, you know. Yeah.
Speaker E: I have a standing four top reservation the first Tuesday of every month.
Speaker F: Really?
Speaker E: I have been there, uh, over 20 times, so.
Speaker A: Stop.
Speaker E: No. Yeah. And that menu does not change. So, um, I. I cooked with, you know, I worked with Andy. He was Andy Lemon and, uh, Billy. They were their products. And, uh, and Tony Thomas, their products
Speaker C: of the Bristol Group.
Speaker E: They worked with, uh, for Pandell for a while. They, you know. And so, um, he allowed me to have that standing reservation that if I can't work, we have a deal where I will pay 100 bucks per. Per resident.
Speaker A: Oh, just let me know. Just let me know. We'll go. We'll. We'll take it from.
Speaker E: You never have a problem getting rid of them. But those are the two, like, those are my two. Just like absolute. I know every single time I go there, it's. It's easy either better than the last time or is just so consistent and it, you know, you're gonna. I get the same thing almost every single time as well from each place. Which is crazy because I go there a lot. And I'm like, oh, uh, chicken parm again. But like, yeah, you know, chicken.
Speaker A: I'm a chicken parm guy.
Speaker C: Dude.
Speaker A: I could get. Chicken parm is my. Is my bellwether. But let me say this. I like the fact that you pick two places that have a certain amount of warmth but are completely different from each other.
Speaker D: Yeah.
Speaker A: Like, one's like old school Italian. There is like. Like you could be in some like, speakeasy in Tokyo or something, you know?
Speaker E: Yeah. And they pour a stiff cocktail and it's like, Negroni is my thing. And I go, I love the Negronis there. So it's like I, I just. Everybody at, uh, in Nor, you know everybody, Noriko, they know, they, they know me, they know that we just got to know everybody. It's just, it's 20 seat place and um, it's just fun.
Speaker A: So apparently you can see Chef Frillman just about every Tuesday night at Noriko Hand Roll Bar. And you can likely find the chef owners, Andrew Lim and Thomas oh there as well. I actually interviewed them before they opened Noriko, and it's interesting to hear this discussion about opening a super small restaurant as a dream. And then I think kind of dreams come true with the success of, uh, Noriko. They recommend a couple of chef driven spots that they really admire. And one of them is Cellar Door Provisions on Diversi.
Speaker G: I mean, Celador is just like Chef Ethan there is, is immensely talented. And uh, every time I've gone there, it's been just a very surprising experience. Like, I don't ex. It's, it's a very small cafe and you don't expect, you know, there's, there's, there's not like you're not expecting this level of food to be coming out and everything is just so well done. He takes care of it. Feels like he gives a, ah, lot of concern over every single ingredient. Um, and it's a super small and concise menu. He makes, um, everything from scratch and I think changes the menu as often as he wants to. It's kind of like a dream scenario for me. Um, if I were able to not have the, um, responsibilities, uh, in my life that I had and you know, financial responsibilities, I would totally just, you know, put my head down and have a 20 seat restaurant that I can just cook food that I love to cook for people. Um, and that's, that's why I, yeah, that's why I love Salvador so much.
Speaker A: And Thomas, I think you talked about, amongst the other, about El Che.
Speaker F: I did. Big, uh, fan of John Manion. Big, uh, fan of the team there. Um, I live downtown. I'm very fortunate that I'm, that I'm close to it. And I love that I can go in there on any given night. I can sit at the bar. You have this beautiful counter near the kitchen. I am absolutely obsessed with food cooked over wood fire. Um, Andy and I, we talk about it quite every once in a while. I just think that I worked in a concept before where we cooked food over Fire every night. And, um, you know, something about it, it's just magical. It's not just like imparting heat, but you're imparting heat and flavor. I think it's really difficult to cook. I know the work that goes in, I know the costs that go into running a restaurant with wood fire. And I think that John, he is a mentor to us, he's a friend to us. He's, I think, an icon to the city of Chicago hospitality. And I think that, um, you know, what he's done over there is incredible. And it's, you know, it'll be long lasting for sure because, you know, he just, again, like, we, we look up to him and, and, and we all believe in the same thing. Like, you know, surround yourself with good people, you know, put your best foot forward, um, keep things interesting and, and just make people feel good, you know, and like they're. I love the food over there. I think his French fries are some of the best French fries. Uh, I've, I've had. Um, I think the, the, the menu is interesting. It's, it's, it's, it's, it's like, um, you know, I get to explore, I get to travel to, you know, this different part of the world when I'm just a few blocks away in the city of Chicago. And I think there's just something absolutely incredible about that.
Speaker A: I've known chef John Manion from El Che and Bracero fame since he was cooking at Moss on West Division in the late 1990s.
Speaker C: Whoa.
Speaker A: He's getting a lot of acclaim lately. And he's also opening a new spot in the old proxy space in the West Loop sometime soon. And one of his all time favorite restaurants has been in the Paula Vey family for more than 30 years. It started by its patriarch, Jean Claude. It's a cozy, warm place that seems to be getting better with age.
Speaker C: My favorite restaurant, um, is Les Bouchon. And I couldn't be happier for what the kids are doing over there. I mean, it's just had a, it's third or fourth renaissance. But, um, Junk Claude was always. The way that he ran that place is how I wanted to be as an owner when I owned my own place. Unpretentious, uh, willing to do anything, the life of the party, you know what I mean? Like, it was, he was the template for me, how I wanted to be when I grew up.
Speaker A: They're doing a great job with Leon and Obaliques.
Speaker C: Oh, my God. I mean, like, it's, it's Insane. And the fact that, like, my cooks now go to Limuan for lunch every Monday. That's how we were, you know, like, when I was a cook, it was like, that's what you wanted to do. So for me, like, that's one of the most important restaurants in the, in modern Chicago dining history. You know, it doesn't get all the fanfare and Michelin stars and all that, but like, if, you know, you know, it's a really heartfelt, beautiful restaurant.
Speaker A: Oliver Poir and his brother run Lebachon now, and it's a tough reservation. And besides Obelix, they also have Marisco San Pedro in Pilsen and the soon to open Chez Poulet on Western. What they don't have is a steakhouse. But Oliver seems to get his fix at Assador Bastion in a beautiful old townhouse on Erie Street. It was recently named the best steakhouse in North America, but a prominent publication.
Speaker C: Wow.
Speaker H: But I, I think I'm a regular there now. You know, I've been there like five times, and it's, it's so good. Like, the steak and like, they get these steak steaks from, uh, dairy. Old dairy cows. And I didn't realize, but the, it's like the best steak ever. Like, the flavor is so great. And, um, they have, like, a lot of other great dishes. Uh, you know, I know Doug. Doug. I love Doug's food. And they're very hospitable there. It's really a cool place. It's in an old townhouse like a couple blocks from Obliques, uh, in River North. Very cool dining room. Um, so, yeah, so I've been there like five times, and every time I've been like, oh, where do I want to go now? I'll just go back there for now. So, yeah, that's my, that's my favorite place now. Everybody should go. It's really, really good.
Speaker A: Husband and wife chefs Doug Saltas and Sing Chen own Astador Bastion, which is universally praised by just about everyone I talk to. But if you can't snag a very tough reservation there, go to the bar, grab a burger or some great baske Parisian ham and cheese, and enjoy. The couple also run Logan Square's Greek Andros Taverna and the Italian Mano Amano. Um, and their recommendations include a chef driven spot on the Southport corridor and one of Chicago's top places for pizza.
Speaker I: Well, I pick a spot that stays current for the last 20 years at Spockanopoly. Uh, you know, I just, uh, I love what Jonathan Goldsmith embodies, uh, he's a purist. He's about ingredients and about technique. So, I mean, um, there's a lot of places that have some great, uh, razzle dazzle and some fun stuff and bright lights that come into play. That's always fantastic for our fancy nights out. But when Ching and I get some time away, uh, there's no better refuge than hanging out at Spockanopoly and having a great pizza and his salads and, you know, his wine selection is just really, uh, it's all personal and, uh, special.
Speaker A: He really brought, I would say, Neapolitan pizza to Chicago. Right. Years ago, I believe.
Speaker I: I believe he did. And not only that, he. He bring the ingredients he's using is. Those are Jonathan's discoveries. Uh, right. Those are his. His vacations or his times in. In Italy when he's going looking for better ingredients and bringing them in. So he's a, uh, he's an educator for us. He. He shares great knowledge, and he's, uh, and also provides us with some of our most satisfying meals.
Speaker A: Shang, you have cooked all over the country. You were at French Laundry or the Peninsula here in Chicago. Both sublime places. So tell me your current favorite Chicago restaurant.
Speaker J: You know, my favorite current restaurant in Chicago, I would say Etoco. I'm so happy to have, um, Gene Cato, you know, creating his magic there in, um, here in Chicago. And I feel like that's something that. A place that I can eat once a week.
Speaker A: And tell me why it's great.
Speaker J: Um, it's great because it's clean, fresh ingredients, um, great technique, great flavors. Um, I can have a healthy meal there. Um, so I feel like it's just somewhere that is going to become one of my regular places.
Speaker A: Do you have a go to dish yet when you go there?
Speaker J: I do not, also. Although I will say I love their fried chicken wings that you shake the.
Speaker I: I think it's called the Shake Shake potato.
Speaker J: So you. You put the. You put the spices in the bag and you shake it like. Like shake and bake. I will suggest. I will suggest to not put the entire bag of spices in there because it is. It is spicy.
Speaker A: So you do it at the table?
Speaker I: Yeah.
Speaker J: You do it at the table.
Speaker C: Yeah.
Speaker J: It's a lot of fun.
Speaker A: And finally, how about some dessert? Well, who better to hear from is Stephanie Hart from Brown Sugar Bakery on the south side, who was picked a longtime favorite.
Speaker D: Oh, my goodness. Yes. The Lutz Bakery.
Speaker A: Oh, Lutz Bakery. Sure. Yep.
Speaker D: Yeah. Oh, my goodness. My daughter, uh, went to school up there, you know, 10 years ago or so, and we would stop there and get food and pastries to bring home.
Speaker A: And that's old school bakery, right?
Speaker D: Yeah. I mean, and the good ones are like, Abundance Bakery on the south side has my apple fritter. I definitely like other bakeries.
Speaker A: Will you go to, like, the fancy French bakeries that like, there's places like Vindi and things like that?
Speaker D: I will say yes, but I get pickier. Um, I like what I like. And when it gets to all that stuff, it really has to be balanced and well done and not too creamy. And there are some folks that really do it well. Um, I love a good tart. I love Italian meringue when it's done exactly right.
Speaker A: That's our show this week. I'd like to thank all the chefs who I interviewed over the years that joined me for this. It was a really great, tasty stroll down memory lane. And of course, thank you to producer extraordinaire Todd Manley and Crain's Audio studio. You can follow me on Instagram at. Eat, drink. Dave, you can read the Dining table newsletter where I have a recommendation each week, wherever you get your crayon subscriptions. And I hope to see you around the table again sometime soon.
Speaker B: Mhm. Sam,
