Culture by Design vs. Culture by Default: Why 'I Can't Keep Good People' Is the Wrong Problem to Solve - Steven Anderson Ep 578

Speaker A: I can't find good people. I can't keep good people.

Speaker B: That issue over the last five years is a real issue. As business owners, what do we have control over? You do have control over what kind of culture, what kind of environment you have. Is it a place where people want to work? Do you have a strategy where you're building a culture by design versus, you know, a, uh, culture by default? The best cultures are attracting, again, the best talent because they want a consistent, predictable work environment where they're respected. Good people want to work for.

Speaker A: Yes, yes.

Speaker B: Uh, you can always train the technical, uh, the people skills are a lot more difficult to train.

Speaker A: It all comes back to culture. It all comes back to culture.

Speaker B: Accountability to the team, not just accountability to the owner. That's a different look, feel and function than most team members have experienced. You work from the inside out. That is what you have control over and you attract what you are.

Speaker A: Steve Anderson, it's always a pleasure. And, um, I want to do a deep dive with you because you have years, decades. Uh, I'm not trying to age you out here, sir, but you have decades of experience.

Speaker B: David, I always used to be the youngest guy in the room. That is not the case anymore.

Speaker A: But you still look it. So, you know, it's all good. It's all good. Doesn't matter. Uh, a lot of wisdom there. The, the, the issue that I hear, and I want to see if you hear the same thing in, you know, all businesses. We, we, we talk a lot to our colleagues in dentistry, of course, because that's, that's where, where, where we spend our time. But I hear today a lot of, a lot of the thoughts from the, the owners, the business owners, the practice owners. You know, I can't find good people, I can't keep good people associates. They, it's just, it's a turnstile. You know, I bring somebody in and, you know, they, they, they, they fail out or they leave, uh, you know, within a year. Nobody seems to want. And there's no loyalty. You know, if someone down the street is offering, you know, a buck more an hour, it's like I lose my person. I'm trying to play the, play the, play the wage game with them. You again, you've coached thousands of, um, dental practice business owners teams over the decades. Is, is this something new in an era that we are kind of post Covid? Because I hear a lot of that, I hear a lot about the younger generations have a different, um, you know, entitlement attitude. They don't want to work or are we just basing things on faulty assumptions? I'm gonna just let you lay the groundwork here.

Speaker B: In terms of the workforce, I would say that that issue over the last five years is a real issue. I mean, there's no. No question that there was an exodus on the clinical side of, especially of clinically trained team hygienists who just said, I'm not. I'm not gonna do this anymore. Dental assistance to some degree the same way. So, yeah, I mean, that. That is a real, I think, stat issue, um, and continues to be the case. And here's a little bit of what's shifted over the last. Because this, you know, everything's a pendulum, David. You and I talk about this all the time. It's like, you know, trends, things, you know, tend to go back and forth. And let me take nursing as an example. So nursing went through a very similar crisis, especially during COVID even more so than we did in. In dental hygiene, because nurses just said, I'm not going to work in that kind of environment. They just opted out. And so there emerged this trend, which has also emerged in dental hygiene, of just. A lot of them just went temp. They just started working for temp agencies and. And they would kind of bounce from place to place. That has shifted in the nursing industry now, where the pendulum now has swung back because what happened was, was bouncing around from place to place. They realized there was no consistency. There was no, you know, no consistent culture that they could depend on. And it was. Every day was a surprise. And so the pendulum, my understanding in nursing has started to swing back to, I'm going to find a good place to work where they treat me well. I've got a good culture, I can get paid well and do well professionally. To some degree, I think we've experienced something similar in hygiene and dental assisting. I'm going to talk about the admin team separately here in just a minute. Uh, but for the licensed, especially for the hygienist, we went through this period and there still is some of that temp mindset of I'm just going to work temporary and go from place to place and have more control over my schedule?

Speaker A: Yeah, I was going to say, is that really. Was that an attitude of, you know, I want more flexibility, I want more control. You just use the word control. Was there also was also always the potential to, quote, you know, earn more as a temp. So some of that was, again, to

Speaker B: your point, I mean, there's actually temp agencies now. My understanding is that are Hiring hygienists as employees, paying them benefits as employees, and then they send them out to work wherever. So those are interesting trends. I think the one thing I always tend to focus on, what do we as business owners, what do we have control over? So what we do have control over is what goes on in the four walls. You do have control over what kind of culture, what kind of environment you have. Is it a place where people want to work? Are you the kind of person that people want to work for you? You know, we call it a, uh, culture by design. Right. Do you have a strategy where you're building a culture by default by design versus, you know, a, uh, culture by default? I don't want one by defi. Every. Every organization has a culture. I want one by design. So that's, at least in the medical world, that's what they found is the best cultures are attracting, again, the best talent because they want a consistent, predictable work environment where they're respected and they can have a, you know, a decent life versus, you know, bouncing around with no predictability. So I think in dentistry, that's what we do have control over, is we do have control over that piece of what kind of. What is the work environment? And number two, I think, is I'm going to get even more clinical. And if you'll. David, you're the clinician. I'm, um, not a dentist. I just play one on tv. And from a business standpoint, here's the other piece. Especially in hygiene, do you have a system, a protocol, a defined way that you run that department in your practice? So here's the standard. Do you have a written hygiene, clinical standard of care? And that is like, when we see this, this is what it is, this is what we call it, this is what we diagnose, and this is how we treat it. Right? So that if I'm walking into that environment, what I want to attract is good professionals that want, uh, to deliver a high standard quality of care, not just hire a hygienist and plug him or her in a seat and just say, go do hygiene. No, we have a system. We have a protocol. We have a way that we do measure it so that we can operate with professional integrity, knowing that no matter who they see, you know, from a patient standpoint, I want to know that I'm going to get the same standard of care no matter who I see. Yes. Uh, so to what degree does that exist in hygiene in your practice? So that you've got a standard of care that you train, that you Work with. So they feel like they're a part of a team and they're working with a professional that cares about the quality of care now. Ah. And then the last thing I'll say about that, because I see this a lot is in that specific area. Are you actually diagnosing and treating disease? I know we're supposed to be talking about hiring David, but we're talking about what are we hiring them to do. Yeah, and I want to attract the best talent. Then I have to have a protocol and a system where we're actually diagnosing and treating disease. I looked at a practice, uh, last week. David. David. Their perio percentage was 2%. Yeah.

Speaker A: Um, I'm missing the boat completely.

Speaker B: So it's like, you know, to what degree they're treating it, how they're coded, who knows? It's, you know, so if I'm the best talent, I'm going to want to work with practice that's actually delivering the service. So that's what we do. Control.

Speaker A: Okay. So. So. So let me. Let me. Let me grab these. That's really good. So. So I agree 100%. If you're a person who provides clinical treatment, Dr. Hygienist, and you care, which, um, hopefully the majority do care, you. We want a structure. We both want. We want it because we want to have that standard. We want to know that when the hygienist wants to know that when she is doing her best and providing observations to the dentist that he or she is going to. Based on their discussions, um, and their collaboration on what their standard of care is and their protocols, there's going to be cohesiveness and not one look at the other going, what? Or he comes in, or she comes in and completely dismisses everything the hygienist said. How is that going to make you feel as a hygienist? So you're 100% right. And I think having that structure, that culture, the standard of care is that that's a retention point. As you said, if someone wants to bounce out and go temp somewhere, well, they're going to get everything across the board. And, um, that would wear me out personally. Like, in a week, I'd be like, I'm done with this. I don't care what you're paying me, what kind of control I think I have over my time. I'm is. I want a place where there's stability, there's protocols that I can count on. Uh, so that's number one. Let's just. And I know you're Going to go into the admin side in a minute. But, but when we are, we're a place where we're trying to recruit. And maybe I'm going a little too fast here, but would some of the languaging and messaging that I would want to put out, wherever I'm putting it out, want to incorporate what you just said?

Speaker B: Absolutely. So I think the piece of it, and we actually recently did a whole session on this at our TOPS Leadership Academy about how to write.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: What do you need to write today in terms of ads? And there's two different kinds of ads, things you put out there. One is what we're looking for. This is the kind of person we're versus here's who we are and here's what we offer. And in today's environment, we're finding the here's who we are is more effective than you got to meet all these requirements. If you, you know, if, if you want to come work with us.

Speaker A: Someone else didn't make this statement. But, but those are like called we believe statements. This is what we believe. And if you believe the same thing,

Speaker B: we should talk might be a match. So. And I think that here's the contrast if you take two different scenarios. One, the one scenario is we need a hygienist versus here's what we believe and the service we're committed to delivering to our patients. This is our vision, this is where we're going. This is what it's like to work here with our team. And if there's a fit, we'd love to have you as part of our team. That's two different, uh, cultures. So that I think again from the beginning, get that piece of it dialed in. Uh, and so you know who you are, what you stand for. Because good people want to work for good people.

Speaker A: Yes, yes, Excellent.

Speaker B: Birds of a feather flock together.

Speaker A: I've heard that somewhere.

Speaker B: Now can we, can I, can I shift the admin side real quick, please? I think the, from that standpoint, here's been our experience over the last couple years, is when you cast a broader net, you'll catch more fish. So in admin, a lot of times the mistake that's been made in the past is it's a list of requirements. You know, you have to have this software training and you have to have this much experience, you know, and so we, we raised the bar so high on the experience level that then it narrows the number of qualified candidates versus most of what there is in admin. The technical can be trained. You don't have to have a license to do it. It can be trained. So what's more difficult to find is people who have the people skills. Dentistry is a people business, right? The teeth just happen to be attached to the people. But it is a people business and especially on the admin side of things. And I'll just say this David, with the advent of so many cool things that AI uh is able to do in terms of insurance verification and claims and all that stuff, it's freeing up the admin team to be more patient facing, which I love because we need more of that. So I. So the people skills are going to, are rapidly becoming even more important today than they were in the past because AI is going to be able to do a lot of those analytical things that didn't require people skills. It'll take care of that. So you want the very best people skills being patient facing. So the practices we work with that, that are doing the having the most success recruiting on the admin side have lowered the number of technical requirements. They don't have to know the software that it's like they're looking for good people. So let me give you, here's an example. So I was having dinner, David, you and I live in generally the same vicinity roughly in, in Dallas. I was having dinner down in Trinity Groves which is a, ah, newer development just outside of downtown and a bunch of different restaurants and the whole deal. And I had a um, a server who was amazing, I mean never missed a beat. She would just had that right balance of being there when we needed her. But she didn't hover, very personable. She just had that perfect balance. I thought man, she is good. So we were wrapping up and I used one of my favorite m one of my favorite phrases, my favorite recruiting phrases which is I said to her, you've done an amazing job, your tip's going to reflect it. And I said by the way, I'm looking for somebody just like you, who do you know that's just like you? And she goes well, what do you do? And I said well I work with dental practices all over. We have some dental practices we work with here, you know, close by and we're always looking for good people to staff those practices. And she said well I'm not sure that I know anyone but I might be interested. And she goes, I have a five year old at home and um, I'm working nights and weekends here in the restaurant and I want to be home in the evenings and on the weekends moving forward. So she goes, if it's okay. Can I apply? And, you know, she did. We placed her. She was amazing. Now, did she have a lot to learn? Absolutely. She had to learn dentistry. She had. But from a people standpoint, hands down, first day on the job, man, she wrapped her arms around those patients. She was amazing. So that's one little pearl. When you find somebody who has great people skills, great customer service skills, whether it's the bank teller or a server in a restaurant or wherever you might be, that's one of my favorite phrases, is I'm looking for somebody just like you. Who do you know?

Speaker A: Who do you know? Yeah, that takes the pressure. That takes the pressure off.

Speaker B: And, uh, you never know where that conversation will lead. So. But the bottom line, I think, on the admin side. Yeah. Is make the umbrella bigger, cast a broader net. You can always train the technical. The people skills are a lot more difficult to train.

Speaker A: Yeah, love that. Let's talk a little bit about the urgency of hiring a replacement. You know, Sally just let us know that, uh, she. She's pregnant, and, uh, she's going to be, you know, taking time off xyz or someone just had a husband, uh, just had a job offer, they're relocating, or somebody just stopped up and said, hey, I'm out of here for whatever reason. And we feel the pressure that that seat, that spot, uh, is now vacated. And, oh, my gosh, I've just got to plug somebody else back in and keep the ball rolling. What's the problem with that? But how do we obviate for that stress level that's gonna be there inherently from the leader, from the owner, but also from your experience, how much does the team fear that? Uh, and are we, again, making false assumptions on the side of the owner, thinking that all is gonna fall apart if I don't fill that seat immediately?

Speaker B: Yeah. So I'll give you. Here's a interesting case study. So this was a practice that we work with that went through something similar to that, and they sat down as a team and they said, okay, we're. We're losing a really critical team member, and we got some choices to make. We can either panic and, uh, wait until we add somebody, or we can figure out how all of us can rally and how we can make do with what we've got. Now, this particular team was on a bonus structure that was based on total team salaries, total budget expense. So basically, they were incentivized to do more themselves without adding a team member, of course. Yeah. Because they got bus. So it was based on you know that salaries are going to be a certain percentage of total revenue. And so after salaries are paid, whatever's still left, you could split up. So they all got together and said, you know what? I can do this and I can do that and I can do. So in that particular case, they did with fewer people and they ended up doing more. And everybody was happier because they took more home. Now that's. You can't do that all the time. I get that. So let's flip over to the other side of this. You know, the, the. The prevailing maxim used to be higher slow, fire fast. And, um, to some degree, today it's higher fast. In other words, when you find a good person, you got to speed the process up. And so because you want to get the good people while they're available, because there may not be as many of them maybe as we've had in the past. So the process needs to be sped up. So it is. For example, if you're running an ad or you get a response, it's like, get on it. Have somebody that's watching that constantly and immediately respond immediately. Schedule a, you know, a screening call or a zoom call. You gotta get on it really, really fast to capture the good ones. So we say today, yeah, hire fast, but you gotta speed up the process. You don't wanna make a bad hire decision, but you gotta speed up the process so that you can get the

Speaker A: good people, the nuances. And there are a lot in. In the process. And even in that you can speed it up. But any, any short tips on. On that process, Even in a. In a, um. Uh, in a process that. That has been tightened to, to make it go faster, to potentially capture someone who we think is good, but not do it too fast or. We hear a lot today of. I, I scheduled some. Some interviews, whether they were virtual or in office, where they might be. And that person at the last minute, uh, last minute, just, Just ghosted us, you know, and so we're burning a lot of time here. So how do we. How do we reduce that? Uh, have some processes but still be able to move the needle fast.

Speaker B: Yeah. So again, you know, screen first. Ultimately, here's, here's the. The litmus test is I want to do whatever I can to see as much of the real person as possible. So let me give you an interesting case study there. For years, one of the Inc. Magazine's small giants, which is smaller employers but are amazing places to work, is a company called. A company called Barrow. And they outsource call centers for Medical environments, all over the hospitals, medical practices, they do all the phone work. They have remarkable track record, uh, 90% retention, which for a call center is like, usually call centers have a 90% turnover. Right in their C suite they have three people. The CEO, the CFO, and the Queen of laughter and fun. And that, David, is her official title. Queen of Laughter, right on her business card. She's the keeper of the culture for the whole company. That is her job is to keep the culture intact. She has the last say on every hire. So her decision is more important. The CEOs, CFOs. She gets the final decision on every person that's hired. I asked her, I did a whole case study on their company because they're remarkable results. So I asked her, I said, do you have a crazy test? You know what I'm talking about? Oh yeah, the team member that you hired in good faith and then you found out they are. I said, do you have a crazy test? She goes, I don't have a crazy test, but I do have a litmus test. I said, what's your litmus test? She goes, tmi.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: She goes, if early on in the process when we're just trying to get to know each other, if they share too much information, I know I'm going to have a problem down the road.

Speaker A: That's interesting.

Speaker B: In other words, if they can't hold it together to be professional in the interviewing process and you know, they're going to bear their soul and you're going to have a disaster. So her advice, which I've taken and applied, her advice is to do everything you can to get the person to be really, really comfortable in the interviewing process. Now, David, she goes to extraordinary lengths that I, I don't do, in fact, I can't do. But she was, she'd go through. And she goes, yeah. She goes, I let my hair down, literally. She goes, I'll take the thing out of my hair and I'll put, I'll kick my feet back up on the desk. She goes, I even have a vape in the drawer. She goes, the fake, but I'll pull it out. Just kind of like, we're buds, we're chump. And she goes, I'm just trying to see how much, uh, how far they'll go. Yeah, I don't do that. But. But it is an interesting piece, which is I want to see as much of the real person as possible. M. So that may mean. I did an interview one time, David, at the gym. We were interviewing a guy I knew he was kind of into that. I said, all right, let's go work out together. Fascinating interview, right? He said, that's a first. That's never happened before. But I want to see as much of the real person as possible. So whatever can be done there as early on as possible. There's some great psychological profile tests that I love to use. One of them is Culture Index. The other one is the Winslow that measures, uh, 28 different, uh, variables in terms of behavior. It's fascinating. And there are some that I really key in on that. Just based on past experience. I know if they score high or low in any one of these areas, I know the direction things are probably going to go. So I want to get as much insight as possible and get the real person to show up. So if they ghost you on the first interview, I think that's pretty telling.

Speaker A: That's very telling. Yeah. That screen worked right there. Yeah, perfect.

Speaker B: Especially when, when you have a rule like we have, David, you know what our rule is? When you're early, you're on time. So if you cannot show up to the first interview, that's a no go.

Speaker A: We're done. Exactly, exactly. Okay, good stuff. All right, let's talk about associates. Generally, I find it's about expectations. We're not well communicated on either side. And most of that is inexperienced on both sides. I, uh, may be a doctor who has many years of experience in clinical practice. I may have a good culture, but I've never had a side by side licensed dentist under me as associate. It's a new game for me. I don't really know what to ask. And of course associates, not having been a business owner, they come at from a, from their standpoint of what they're looking for. How, how do we start to break this down? And again, same question I ask a little bit about, about staff, uh, or hygienists. What's the culture today? What's the, what's the mindset today of again, generally speaking, uh, a lot of younger docs who are looking for an associate position. Many times just I gotta pay some

Speaker B: bills so that you hit it straight on, which is the expectations piece. So here's, I'll give you, here's an interesting case study because I see this one a lot. So this is a practice where the solo dentist at the time, crushing it. And this was legitimate, this was like, needed an associate to pick up the extra. Cause there was plenty of extra to go around maybe. And um, you know, David, the whole challenge with the associate thing is typically there's too much for one but not enough for two. Right. I mean that's typically. So it's that balance of okay, how are you going to make this work? So in this particular case, the, the, the solo dentist brings on an associate and um, the, the owner dentist had a very loyal following. It was a multigenerational practice, so a lot of patients that just wanted to continue to see, sure. See the owner dentist. And so the associate dentist of course, gets a good start. But the expectation, and here's the key, the expectation on the part of the associate is that they were going to be fed, that it was the owner dentist's responsibility to feed them new patients, no matter what. They just had to show up and they were going to fill up the associate schedule. So misalignment of expectations. The owner expectation was, hey, I'll, I'll give you a starting point, but then you got to get out in the community and you got to get known and you, you know, like I did that kind of thing. So misalignment of expectations creates a lot of problems. Yeah. So that piece, if I can just hone in on that, just a minute. There is an issue, uh, in, in that when, David, when, you know, when you say people say people, you know, young kids don't want to work anymore. Here's the real, the real issue. It's not that as much as an attitude of entitlement. And that's not new, that's been around for a long time and it's not generational. It's just some people have an attitude of entitlement where the, the attitude of entitlement is because I have, I deserve.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So for example, let's go over to the team member side. I interview prospective admin team members occasionally that their expectation is high dollar compensation because I've had X number of years of experience. That's entitlement.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: The number of years of experience means nothing. What means something is can you take all that experience and can you produce the desired end result that we want? And if you can, great. There's plenty to go around for everybody. But just because you've had experience doesn't entitle you to a higher wage unless you can produce. Well, the same thing on the associate side is I'm always very, very, um, heightenedly aware of an attitude of entitlement. So one of my favorite interview questions is, in fact, David, you and I have talked about this. One of my favorite EMV questions is what was your first paying job? And how old Were you, um, you and I, we did this previously somewhere, I think maybe at Eagle U or someplace. We've talked about that. And, um, I think yours years and mine were similar. Mine was a paper out at age 12. Yours was more lawns.

Speaker A: Yep.

Speaker B: Yeah, same thing. But there, the science says that there's a correlation between the age at which someone starts to work and work ethic. So if I started working early, then the tendency is. At least the data says that I have it. Ah. I have a tendency to have a higher work ethic. It's not 100%, but it is an indication. The earlier I started, the more likely it is that I've got better work ethic and I'm going to have more of an attitude of I'm going to make it happen. I don't expect it to happen to me or that. That it's going to be given to me. So the questions around that of, you know, how early did you start working? What. What have been some of your best results? What did you do to get those? That's. Those are things that I always look for, as well as what their previous employment experience has been. Not just experience for them, but their experience with their employer. And inevitably, if somebody's got a track record of somebody done somebody wrong song, they're telling you about all the horrible.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Employment experiences they've had, you're probably next.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker B: It's not. It may not be the employer, it may be them. So those are all just, I mean, things I think are common sense, we commonly know, but hopefully in there, there are some pearls that might be useful in the process.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I think it's very helpful. All right, let's. Let's kind of move to what you and I are both fans of. And that is really going from an employer, employee, doctor, hygienist, doctor, team member, doctor, associate, to mentor, mentee, uh, the culture, the leadership. Are we again, just thinking that we're going to plug somebody in, or is there a culture of a team leadership, uh, ownership of certain positions, a well defined description of overall outcomes, department outcomes, team outcomes, practice, outcomes, mentor, mentee. How does that fit within the constructs of a practice today? How can that be elevated into that mindset?

Speaker B: You know, there's a great piece of research, I believe it was Gallup that did it. And some of the ingredients that they identified, which were fascinating, were one, uh, do I have the tools that I need to be successful? Right. So if I'm in my position, do I have the resources I need? Number two is Do I have a mentor or somebody who cares about my success? And number three was, do I have someone I consider to be a friend at work? So you talk about the whole mentor idea and we define a mentor as somebody who has done something or been down a road that you want to go down and they've done it successfully and they're willing to share with you how they did it. That's the key part. Are they willing to share. So having that kind of a setup regardless of how big the team is, but to have somebody who is the, uh, designated mentor for a new team member and they're your go to person if you have a question, uh, when you have questions about policies, procedures or how we do things, where you have somebody who's assigned to you and their job is to help you be successful, get a good start, get your feet on the ground. You can't anticipate everything, right? Even if you have a great onboarding process and great training, you can't anticipate every single question. So if they've got a mentor and their job, their assigned job is you. You're assigned to help this people, this person get a good start and be able to ramp up and be successful in our culture.

Speaker A: So, so that, that could easily be senior doctor associate. Obviously there's going to be a great incentive for a senior doctor, hopefully to, to want to help assist, mentor the younger dog. That's where I would be. And not just a plug and play. You've got a license, so you know, here's your schedule. But in practice where there's, you know, a couple of hygienists, I mean, so experienced hygienist, veteran hygienist, bringing a new hygienist on, that could be part of the conversation. You know, you're, I'm empowering you to be like the ambassador or the mentor for Susie who's coming on board. And the desired outcome is to see Susie, you know, you have particular specifics, but you know, what does that outcome look like, you know, after a month, 90 days. And same thing with any of the front office, uh, areas. You know, a veteran team member who has skills and has the ability, they could be, you know, in charge of this, this new person coming on and same thing. So that's a way to build that within the team so that you don't have a person coming in and they have to like, prove themselves. And there's, there's team members who, I don't really know who this person is. So I'm not sure if they're good. And, you know, you get that kind of disincentive in a practice where the leadership, the owner hasn't set that culture. It all comes back to culture. It all comes back to culture 100%.

Speaker B: So having at least having that by design, where there is somebody that's assigned to a new hire, and it's like you are their bodyguard and, um, their mentor to help them be successful, get their feet on the ground. Not just, I mean, the technical side. Yes. But more important culturally, make sure they feel valued, that they've got somebody they can turn to. And your job is to help them integrate and be successful.

Speaker A: All right, let's. Let's finish with a couple, just a couple of, um, short questions. And I'm going to ask you to. From a practice owner side and then also from a associate side. We'll go back to the associates in this one. What's the biggest staffing mistake that you're seeing that practice owners are in fault of? We may have already covered it, but what's always the biggest one you see today? If you had to choose one, I

Speaker B: would say post hire. It is accountability. Having a culture where everybody's accountable to the team. This is a, this is a big, big difference. If the culture is everybody's accountable to the leader or to the doctor, that's kind of a command and control type of a, uh, structure and culture. Versus if I'm accountable to the team, to the entire team, and I report to the team, not just to the doctor, that creates a whole different look, feel and function for a practice. So if I'm coming on, um, board setting that up to say, who to whom are you accountable? Well, you may have some specific personal accountabilities to, you know, if you're a dental assistant, you're accountable to the doctor to make sure you do these, you know, set up the trays correctly and do all the things you're supposed to do functionally, but ultimately you're accountable to the entire team for the overall results that we're producing together. So that comes out in structure. So in a team meeting, then everybody's reporting about their area of accountability to the entire team, not just to the doctor. So I think that from a setup and a culture standpoint, accountability to the team, not just accountability to the owner or the boss, that's a different look, feel and function than most team members have experienced.

Speaker A: I agree, I agree. I like that a lot. All right, uh, two associates. What do you believe is the biggest career mistake that you're seeing in Whatever decision they make in terms of where they attempt to place themselves today. Career mistake for associates.

Speaker B: I'll go back to the, the point that we talked about earlier, which is the mistake is in the beginning of not taking personal responsibility for your own success. So it is saying, regardless of what's going around, um, on, around me, I'm going to take responsibility for the interactions I have with patients. I'm going to take responsibility for my own personal production. I'm not going to lean on anyone and expect anything to be given me. So here's. Can I give you a personal example, David? I'm not sure I've shared this with you before. I may have. So early, early on in our development, I was partners with the late Walter Haley. You remember Walter. That's how we originally met. And there's quite an age difference. I guess you could set this as kind of an associate relationship. When we met, he was 64, I think, and I was 23. So there was quite an age difference between the two of us. And um, at a point and we were, you know, this was kind of a startup business and so I was, I was hustling hard. He came into me one day and he was acting upset and he said, I, I've noticed something about you kind of very accusatory. And I said, what's that? And he goes, you know, I've noticed when I introduce you to one of my friends and they talk to you, they don't call me back anymore. They don't want to, they want to talk to you. And I just sat there and he goes, do you know why? I said why? He said, because you do what you say you'll do and they know it. And they know they're going to get better follow up from you than they get from me. That's why they don't want to talk to me anymore. But my, my, I've never forgotten that. Because what it, what it reminded me of and what it taught me was it those weren't his real, they were his relationships. But I had to take personal responsibility to make them even better. Yeah, yeah, didn't, didn't take that for granted at all. So I think that's the biggest mistake on the associate side is not taking personal responsibility for your own success. It, whatever the environment is. Yeah, there's environments that are way out of bounds. I get that. But everything's 80, 20. Everything's 80, 20. So I, and I'll. Here's an example of this, David. I had a mentor early on in my career that really reinforced this to me. And here's what she said. She was, she recruited her company, recruited junior military officers and placed them in the Fortune 500. And one of the principles she taught me, she goes, almost every work situation is 80, 20. You're going to have 80% of the things that are pretty good, and you're going to have 20% of the things that are probably less than optimal. So she's just know that if you don't like it where you are and you decide to go somewhere else, basically you're just trading a, uh, different 80, 20. You're going to have a different set of issues over there. But she goes, make no mistake, there will always be issues. Right? So now if, if 80% are issues and only 20%, good, that's a different conversation. But I would say 80% of the time, most of the situations it's, you know, it's 80, 20. So realizing that and saying, okay, with the 20% that maybe is less than optimal, that maybe I don't like, then what portion of control do I have over that? What can I do about it? What am I willing to live with? Part of it's just understanding yourself and what your own boundaries are. But at the end of the day, take personal responsibility for your own success. The environment, yes, it's important. And 80% of what's going on in that environment you have control over, you can do something about it.

Speaker A: Yeah, the tendency so much today in a, in a, in an era where it's, we're basically a throwaway era, we throw away a lot of material things. But I think the same thing can be the case for relationships, uh, employment, marriages. I mean, you know, we just see people say, well, it's not good here. So I'm out. I'm moving on to greener pastures. And we carry the same, same thing with us going forward. So why not, as you said, focus on, you know, that 20% that maybe we don't care for, but what can we do with that to maybe make it better? Right. Uh, instead of just saying, well, I'm just going to trade off for something else that is going to have the same, same type of 8020 situation.

Speaker B: What you do carry with you wherever you go is yourself.

Speaker A: Exactly.

Speaker B: And that you can't escape that. So it's, you know, we all know this. You work from the inside out because that is, that is what you have to control over and what stays with you and you attract what you are.

Speaker A: Beautifully said, Steve Anderson. It's always a pleasure. Thanks for your time. Today, cash out and coast. Hey, that's every business owner's dream and desire, right? Get into the business, make a lot of money, get a big multiple, get out and go live the life you really dreamed of all along. The problem is when you get an offer from somebody or you put yourself out there to get offers and you get some back, well, that feels good. It's flattering. It's validation of all the work you've done. And it's like, should I take those chips and make my move now? The problem that most owners haven't done is the work to say, well, am I ready? Am I the best version of myself that I need to be going forward? Do I have enough? What are the stakes that follow me once I exit this business that for many years has served my family very, very well, it's not a problem of exiting the practice or the business. It's exiting at the right time, the right budget. Understanding these problems is something I've looked at for many years, and I wrote a book, the Exit Optional Playbook. I'd be happy to send you a copy of this that give you some of the frameworks and the questions you should ask yourself before you make that big move, uh, whether it's right for you or not. Just go to exitoptional.com request your free book, be glad to send it over to you.