Innovating by Design: Matt Ellsworth on Arizona's Bioscience Roadmap

Speaker A: Welcome to the Commons Podcast, featuring researchers, innovators, artists, entrepreneurs and community builders who are improving the human condition in your own backyard and around the globe. I'm your host, Tom Oshun.

Speaker B: Foreign.

Speaker A: In a few weeks, we'll once again be broadcasting live from the Phoenix Arizona Pavilion M the BIO International Conference in San Diego, one of the largest gatherings of life science leaders, researchers, entrepreneurs, investors and policymakers in the world. As we prepare for those conversations, I wanted to step back and and explore a question that is increasingly relevant not just to Phoenix, but to regions everywhere. How does a place build a bioscience ecosystem that can compete on a national and global stage? The answer is often assumed to be straightforward. Attract companies, recruit talent, build laboratories, and invest in research. But while all of those ingredients matter, successful innovation ecosystems rarely emerge from isolated investments or short term initiatives. More often, they are the product of sustained commitment, coordinated leadership, and a willingness to think in decades rather than election cycles or quarterly reports. Phoenix offers a particularly compelling example. 25 years ago, Arizona was not widely recognized as a major bioscience center. Today, it is home to a rapidly growing life sciences sector, nationally recognized research institutions, expanding healthcare systems, and an increasingly vibrant entrepreneurial community. The Phoenix bioscience Corps has become one of the most visible examples of how a city, state universities, healthcare organizations, philanthropies, and private industry can work together to create something larger and than any one institution could accomplish alone. At the center of much of that story is an organization many people outside of Arizona may not know well. The Flynn Foundation. For more than two decades, the foundation has helped guide Arizona's bioscience strategy through the Arizona bioscience Roadmap, a long term framework that has provided continuity, focus, and accountability across multiple generations of leaders. While many regions develop strategic plans that sit on shelves, the roadmap has served as a living document, helping stakeholders align around shared priorities and measure progress over time. What makes this particularly interesting is that the roadmap is not simply about economic development. It reflects a broader understanding that innovation ecosystems are built through connections between research and industry, between health care and entrepreneurship, between talent development and opportunity, and between vision and execution. Today we'll explore that journey with Matt Ellsworth, Chief Operating Officer of the Flynn Foundation. We'll discuss how the roadmap came to be, how it has evolved over the years, what lessons have emerged from its implementation, and how it continues to influence the future of Arizona's bioscience sector. And at a moment when life sciences are becoming increasingly important to economic competitiveness and societal well being, we'll Also talk about what other regions can learn from Arizona's experience and why long term stewardship may be one of the most undervalued ingredients in building successful innovation ecosystems. I hope you enjoy this episode. Uh, Arizona has quietly become one of the most interesting bioscience states in the country. That might be a surprise to some people, but these kinds of ecosystems don't grow accidentally. They require coordination, capital, talent, and a shared narrative. They also require conveners who are able to bring all of the stakeholders together. So today we're talking with Matt Ellsworth, who is the chief administrative officer of the Flint found about Arizona's bioscience roadmap and what it really takes to marshal those stakeholders together and take research into impact. Matt, welcome to the commons.

Speaker B: Thank you, Tom.

Speaker A: Hey, why don't we talk about the problem you were originally trying to solve 20 years ago when the roadmap first came into existence?

Speaker B: For sure. So, the Flynn foundation is a private, nonprofit foundation based in Phoenix, serving all of Arizona. We invest in leaders, we commit in the, uh, areas where we work for the long term, and we think about how to strengthen ecosystems through building collaborations and bringing networks together. In the year 2000, we decided to focus on the biosciences as our primary area of interest at the foundation. And in 2002, we launched Arizona's Bioscience Roadmap, a strategic plan to accelerate Arizona's progress in developing its bioscience sector to bring it to national prominence in areas where we had some existing and potential strengths.

Speaker A: So you have five strategies, but I notice you lead with culture of collaboration. Why start there?

Speaker B: Well, collaboration, uh, has for a long time been, uh, something that Arizona is known for. Uh, they talked in the early days of the roadmap about the collaborative gene. In this version of the Roadmap, which launched last year, September 2025, we actually rephrased it slightly and we said, let's amplify the collaborative gene. Other parts of the country have learned a little bit more about how to build collaborations. And so we needed to do some new things to strengthen that kind of collaboration. We see it in a few different areas. One is kind of internal. How can, uh, organizations across the biosciences collaborate better? That includes, uh, strengthening our own steering committee for the roadmap. But it also means looking for ways to collaborate across sectors because we know that more than ever before, the biosciences are intertwined with semiconductors and of course, AI and biodefense. And onward from there.

Speaker A: Was this a result of failures or breakdowns that you'd seen in collaboration previously.

Speaker B: I don't know that there have been real breakdowns. Uh, we've seen in fact, some really remarkable kinds of collaborations that have taken different shape over the decades.

Speaker A: Give me an example of that.

Speaker B: So here we are talking on the Phoenix Bioscience Core. When I arrived at the Flynn foundation in 2007, one of the things that we were celebrating at that moment when I arrived was a new medical school that was involving the University of Arizona and Arizona State University. So that partnership lasted for several years and then they decided to go their own directions. ASU built some new relationships with Mayo Clinic. The U of A built some new relationships with Banner Health. Both of those have been really thriving. And then of course, today we see ASU establishing its own medical school on the same campus. So we've tried some things, we've pivoted when we need to as a state, and uh, are looking for new ways to collaborate going forward. I should mention that ASU has this strong relationship with Mayo Clinic now that is still thriving. Uh, but they also have a new clinical partner for this medical school in Honor Health. And that's pretty typical in Arizona, that people will look for more than one way to work with one another.

Speaker A: I found that very interesting about the state because if you're on either one of the coasts, seems like there are dominant health systems, they partner very linearly in one lane with only one set of partners. And here I have seen this kind of multiplicity of players across the state makes it a richer environment. I also think it may allow innovation to go faster.

Speaker B: I think that's true. And one of the things that we have observed, especially in the early years of the roadmap, is that there was a certain, um, beneficial kind of desperation from being rather small. Um, when you're a small, nascent bioscience sector, maybe you have to rely a little more on partners all around you. You can't go it alone. And one of the challenges that we have now as Arizona has begun to mature, is that we now have to concentrate more, uh, maybe more consciously on continuing to build those kinds of collaborations rather than thinking, okay, we're self sufficient now, we can do it on our own.

Speaker A: So somebody who's not familiar, let's just stick to the Phoenix region for a moment. What's the breadth of assets that we really have in biosciences here in Phoenix?

Speaker B: Well, one of the things that Arizona has generally, and certainly in the Phoenix area, is a patient base that is really valuable for, uh, all kinds of research. Organizations and startup companies. We have a really ethnically diverse, uh, community. Um, we're also real diverse in terms of age. There were many decades that Arizona was marked as, as a retirement capital. But in fact we have a very young population and uh, an aging population. There are huge assets that come with that. Out in Sun City, towards the northwest end of the Phoenix area, uh, there is a world class, um, brain bank where for decades people in the community have been committing, um, donating their brains after death. And that has allowed, that has been part of the way that Arizona has become a center for neuroscience research. Uh, we have the country's largest university, an Arizona State University that is producing more engineering graduates than any other university, um, in the country. That has huge benefits for companies that are ready to grow. So we toured Charis, uh, Life Sciences, uh, a couple of months ago and we were looking around an enormous building that has grown out of, um, some technology developed right here on the Phoenix bioscience core. But now there are hundreds and hundreds of people that are being hired to look at new ways to process, uh, cancer samples and look for new treatments to ensure that people can have the care that they need.

Speaker A: If I remember right, Kara screwed out a TGen, didn't it describe TGen a little bit?

Speaker B: Yeah. And of course I should say Keras purchased um, a startup company that had really important technologies that was called the Molecular Profiling Institute coming out of TGen. So, so, uh, TGIN, um, it arrived around the same time that the roadmap was released. They were happening separately, but in a really convenient.

Speaker A: This is the first roadmap, right?

Speaker B: Yes, yes, in 2002. And when TGIN arrived, uh, its arrival here was really one of those markers of what collaboration looks like, where there were folks, uh, from the city of Phoenix that said, we're ready to provide some land. Uh, there was the state of Arizona saying, we know it's expensive to start an independent research institution, but we're going to help you do it. There were philanthropic organizations like the Flynn foundation, like the Virginia Piper Charitable Trust, that said we see the value. And then there were partnerships with the universities and health systems throughout the state, from Flagstaff to Tucson, all of them coming together to say, this is an asset that will really improve what we are all capable of from the perspective of research. And then there of course is the emphasis from the beginning of the, the translation that occurs there. So the research that is meant to do something beyond just produce papers.

Speaker A: That's what the T stands for, right? Translation.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And so there have Been a couple of dozen, maybe more startup companies that have come out of TGEN over the next 20 years.

Speaker A: So now TGEN is part of City of Hope. Exactly. And that's really brought a different level of player to the market, hasn't it?

Speaker B: For sure, for sure. City of Hope's arrival was really important for TGen, but it was especially important for the patients that have access to new kinds of tests addressing whatever their clinical needs are.

Speaker A: Should we read something into the quality of the ecosystem that City of Hope didn't pull TGEN out to California but chose to leave them in Phoenix?

Speaker B: I think so. And I'm sure that part of that is that there is the patient base here to support it. Um, that's one of the benefits of being um, a um, major metropolitan area like this. But it also says that here there are the people that are going to be, um, the research performing physicians and the nurses and everyone else that can support the workforce for a major unit, uh, of City of Hope here in the Phoenix area.

Speaker A: So for a time before I think the first roadmap, Phoenix was known as the largest city in North America without a four year medical school. When Arizona State's first class first cohort comes in, I think at the end of this year there'll be five medical schools here in Phoenix. Right?

Speaker B: That's right, that's right, yes. Um, when the Flynn foundation was first starting to look at medical education, and this was in the early 1980s, we uh, funded a study and at the time I've looked it up, it was something titled, something like geographically separated campuses of, of medical schools. And it was looking at a way for the University of Arizona College of Medicine based in Tucson, um, to find a way to build a new campus here already even then, uh, they were exceeding uh, their own limits in terms of the clinical population to support a medical school. Um, and so they were looking for ways to bring people here. And for a while that was just rotations and third and fourth year medical students would spend their time up here at the hospitals in the Phoenix area. But yes, we have now the two completely separately accredited medical schools from the University of Arizona. We have asu, we have Mayo Clinic, um, in Scottsdale, we have Creighton University, we have two osteopathic, uh, medical schools. So the rapid growth has been really extraordinary.

Speaker A: Now with that growth, does that pull research then that can continue to feed the startup community?

Speaker B: That's exactly right. We know that when we look at where, for uh, example one of those markers is National Institutes of Health, uh, funding for research that the universities that have the most NIH funding, almost all of them have a medical school that they are affiliated with, whether it's their own or one that's very closely affiliated with them. Discoveries, uh, happen, um, in hospital settings. Discoveries happen among medical school faculty. And that's, uh, one of the best ways to have, uh, startup companies emerge.

Speaker A: Flynn foundation supports a number of startups. I think you even have your own cohort, your own program, don't you?

Speaker B: We do. Uh, for a number of years, we've had a bioscience entrepreneurship program. And what we do is we work with a nonprofit partner. Uh, we help to select the startup companies. The nonprofit partner gives them, um, supportive services, a little bit of funding, um, to help them along the way in their early years. And there's that focus on building a cohort, a cohort of entrepreneurs that can learn from one another, where we can bring together, uh, who can talk with them about what it means to pursue risk capital. Uh, we can help them to learn from one another as they build out their teams, things like that.

Speaker A: Every state says it wants to accelerate commercialization. What makes that easier here in Phoenix? And what obstacles remain yet to be hurdled?

Speaker B: Sure. So, I mean, I can start with the challenge. We know that, um, Arizona is not, um, it's not the Bay Area in terms of the density of both entrepreneurs and, uh, risk capital, um, or Boston for that matter. Um, but we shouldn't try to be that. We should try to be our own place. Um, now it's awfully convenient that we're just a short distance for those investors when they're coming from the Bay Area or Los Angeles, things like that. Um, but this is also a place where people, um, are a little scrappier. The entrepreneurs, um, who are succeeding here, um, they have done a lot of bootstrapping to get to where they are. And, um, that says something about them, and it suggests, um, that they are creative in the ways that they are finding opportunities to advance their companies.

Speaker A: Does that mean we should be looking at a different metric for how we're measuring entrepreneurial success in the area?

Speaker B: That's a really good idea. Um, now, I don't know off the top of my head what that alternate metric would be, but when you, when you say metrics, that's. That's an important part of the roadmap. So every year or every two years, somewhere in that range, for the entire length of the roadmap from 2002, we have, uh, commissioned. The Flynn foundation has commissioned a study of the ecosystem to see how we're doing. So that includes looking at things like what is the venture capital funding coming into Arizona and then breaking that down by stage and seeing where we are especially strong, where we need to grow. We've looked at of course NIH funding and actual jobs and um, a few other metrics that help to guide um, investments and indicate where we um, have real needs for growth.

Speaker A: You can't grow without talent. And I know it is one of your elements in the roadmap is really strengthening talent and career pathways, which to me means not just those with four year and terminal degrees.

Speaker B: That's so true. And I think when we think about sort of the whiz bang nature of the biosciences, um, all the stuff that no one could imagine 20, 30 years ago, there is a certain assumption that many of those jobs that are the good high paying job we talk about in the biosciences, that you have to go get a PhD or an MD to get one of those jobs. And that's not only not true, but in fact the sector really depends on having a whole range of talent, uh, folks that have uh, uh, technicians that have certifications and degrees from the community college, systems that can jump right in and work in labs, uh, that's essential. We have to have it. And that includes machinists that work on developing medical devices and building the incredible engineering systems that power biomanufacturing.

Speaker A: You brought up two additional areas as we're talking about engineering, uh, data manufacturing. All of that really is beginning to intersect with life sciences. So talk a little bit about what you're seeing at the intersection of not only the traditional life sciences, which required wet bench scientists, uh, mainly, but now with all of these things coming in and devices in health, tech, in population, health, engineering and technology, what's that really going to mean for the job market? And what's that really mean for the state of Arizona?

Speaker B: We know that um, if your refrigerator is starting to talk to you and you can remotely tell your washing machine to start, then at that level, um, we've got the intersection of machines and computers. The same thing is happening in the biosciences. What was once, uh, a mechanical thing that provided your pathology, um, testing, um, now it's that machine that's looking at a sample and it's also a companion diagnostic and those have to work together. Our medical device companies, um, are integrating um, new kinds of tools for a smart medical system. It's requiring some different kinds of training, some different kinds of people to be part of startup companies. And it also means that when you start a career in the biosciences, you may be flowing in and out of different sectors over time. Time we know that as part of the new roadmap, one of the sort of the sub studies that was done of our sector was where are there crossovers between different sectors in terms of the training that people are getting, where biomanufacturing starts to bleed into semiconductor training, where someone could be a technician in either one of those fields. Uh, we know that that's definitely going to be part of both the opportunity and the challenge here as we have the growth of other sectors like semiconductor manufacturing. Of course we know about TSMC's huge growth in the Phoenix market. Um, that means that people will be able to cycle potentially between um, those different sectors. There'll be some competition for talent, no question about it. Um, but I'm sure that the folks at W.L. gore that built their factory a decade or more before TSMC in North Phoenix, they're thrilled to have that influx of talent that uh, is going to produce future um, engineers for them as well.

Speaker A: Historically, Big pharma has always absorbed a lot of the development risk, right, for startups, for new ideas. Are there going to be other players now who are kind of coming to the table? Whether that's players like cloud companies, AI companies you've already mentioned, the chip manufacturers. Where are some of those other, what I'll call tall tent poles going to be within the, within the ecosystem.

Speaker B: What we are uh, presuming is going to be the case, especially as AI companies move into healthcare more, is that there will be new kinds of, there will be new ways of developing therapeutics um, that don't require um, the same kinds of research labs that they did before, more uh, of the uh, in silica, uh, development I guess you would say. And so there are opportunities, um, for, I would think, for a region like ours that doesn't have a huge presence from pharmaceutical companies to do some leapfrogging, um, if we get the right kind of support for startups that can employ this sort of new technology.

Speaker A: So if we're leapfrogging, where are those opportunities that you're seeing or that the roadmaps work has elicited that we may want to think about, particularly here on the PBC in downtown Phoenix where there's this unique agglomeration of assets?

Speaker B: Well that's a really good point. One of the lessons from the earliest days of the roadmap was if you are a smaller state trying to get bigger if you're trying to uh, get on the field, as they say, uh, that you can't try to do everything. And you need to invest where you have areas of existing strength and real promise. And that real promise needs to happen in two ways. You've got, uh, the potential to grow what you have, but you also need to have a market. Um, there needs to be something that you're skating towards, I guess. So in Arizona that means, uh, that cancer therapeutics have been an area of strength. That means that neuroscience, as I mentioned before, has been a huge area of strength. We have the banner Alzheimer's Institutes in Arizona that are doing just extraordinary, extraordinary work.

Speaker A: And wasn't Baroneurological one of the test sites for the Neuralink implant?

Speaker B: Indeed, indeed. And there's where we see again where, where we may be going in the future, where there uh, are new opportunities to take uh, these tiny medical devices and integrate um, the new capacity of um, um, computer chips.

Speaker A: How do you accelerate the flywheel, particularly as you grow the biosciences? What kind of things specifically does the region need to think about so that our flywheel can turn faster?

Speaker B: We need policies that will allow companies, um, to grow here, to stay here, and large companies to enter the market for sure. I mean we look around our region and there are definitely some homegrown successes, um, where there are some of the national names and international firms that have come to Phoenix. In large part their arrivals have been through acquisitions. So Medtronic is here because of an acquisition. Um, the same is true for Karis. Right? The Karis got here that way. Uh, Roche down in Tucson is here because Ventana Medical Systems was ready for them to uh, be acquired. So as we think about what will allow that to happen, partly it's public policy at the state level, uh, that will permit, uh, businesses to grow, um, that will allow talent to continue being developed.

Speaker A: Breakthrough medicine announced $60 million in funding. Steve Potts is a well known serial entrepreneur in the area. What role do these kinds of serial entrepreneurs, whether they're ones like Steve or they're coming out of ASU as a professor or TGen, what role do they play in the ecosystem?

Speaker B: They're super helpful to the ecosystem in more than one way. One is that uh, they build the credibility of the region without question. Um, they're known already for their accomplishments in the past. And when they do it again here in Arizona, that shows other entrepreneurs, this is a place where you can make it. It also tells investors, um, we need to pay attention to the Phoenix area or all of Arizona. I think the other piece of it that we are thinking about, and this is mentioned in the roadmap as well, is that we need those serial entrepreneurs to provide guidance to um, the newest startups, um, and new startups. Often you get a scientist with a great idea may not necessarily be the right person to be the CEO. And so the serial entrepreneur can sometimes come in and help uh, a terrific idea get to where it needs to be so that it reaches the market.

Speaker A: When you talk to CEOs considering Arizona, are there talent concerns that they bring up here beyond just the workforce? Are there higher C level concerns?

Speaker B: I think that it is becoming well known across the country that um, between our medical schools, um, major universities that we have here, that we have the talent to help uh, a company get going, uh, where we hear other kinds of questions are around some of the quality of life issues. And I know that the city of Phoenix is working very hard on that. I know the state of Arizona is paying great attention to that, making sure that we have K12 schools, um, that families are really excited to send their kids to. Um, those kinds of things make a big difference.

Speaker A: Arizona State University of Arizona TGen, the VA, Phoenix Children's. We've already talked about dignity and banner and honor and Barrow Mayo. That's a lot of points on the compass to be able to navigate as a, maybe a new entrant into the market. Also Arizona State is the largest university. That's a pretty big intimidating place. Are there the kinds of conveners, connectors, mediators, almost Sherpa that can help guide somebody if they come to Phoenix to meet the right people? Because it could take nine months to a year to get around that circle I just mentioned and find those right entry points.

Speaker B: That's a terrific point. And that does happen in this region in a few different ways. Um, it happens through our trade association, Azbio, Arizona Bio Industry Association. It happens through economic um, development organizations like uh, the Greater Phoenix Economic Council. It happens through the city of Phoenix and their economic development department. It happens from the state, the Arizona Commerce Authority. All of those uh, organizations do work together really well. I was at a meeting maybe a week and a half ago and I was watching that exact thing happen. Representatives of all of those organizations sitting down with a uh, company founder from outside the United States who, who was saying I wonder what it would be like to bring my company here. And they were saying here's how it can happen. So it's really exciting to see that occur. The uh, Flynn foundation has some role in that we're a grant maker, we operate some programs, but we also do think of ourselves as a convener. One of the ways that we do that is through the steering committee of the Roadmap itself. So these are folks that are leaders in their organizations across the state and we bring them together and they learn from one another and offer support to one another, including, uh, when we've got opportunities to recruit a new company to town or find some new ways to make it a soft landing for people.

Speaker A: When the Roadmap began, Arizona was never in the conversation in life sciences. Over the last two decades, and particularly over the last decade or so, you're starting to see Arizona, you're starting to see Phoenix, hit those lists of up and coming bio places. So how has that changed the perception and changed recruitment? What would change if in the next five to ten years Arizona was consistently mentioned alongside Boston or San Diego or the Bay Area?

Speaker B: Well, that would be an exciting outcome and that's certainly the kind of thing that we're, that we're aiming for. What that would mean is that when companies are looking for a place to launch, um, this is certainly one of the areas that they would consider. They would know that there is not a downside to coming to a region with a somewhat smaller, ah, cluster. Um, they would know that there are certain kind of benefits from doing that. Um, different levels of competition for talent, um, some new opportunities. Um, but there would also be the direct benefits to patients and that's um, really important. Families want to know, okay, there's a new company that can do something amazing. Can I have access to it? Can I be part of a study? Arizona, um, is already an excellent place for that in the top 10 in the country, I think in terms of clinical trial participation. Um, but what does that really translate into? Um, that's how we are really going to be on the map for the average person. Um, and that will have its own m. Kind of flywheel effect, I think.

Speaker A: So final question that I'm asking of everybody this season. Um, what's on your nightstand that you're reading that you think others might, uh, find, uh, value in? And what are you listening to on your playlist that might be fun?

Speaker B: Well, you made the mistake of talking to an English major, but, um, on my nightstand right now is that incredible novel that, um, rightfully, uh, had a lot of, uh, buzz the last couple of years. Uh, the novel James, which is a retelling of Huckleberry Finn from the perspective of Jim, um, who was in a lot of ways the real hero in that book and is at the center of this one. Um, wonderful story. Somebody that I'm listening to on a regular basis right now. Um, I listened to uh, uh, Kara Swisher talking about technology. Uh, and she's got a real acerbic wit. But, um, is always a keen observer of, of how technology is affecting our lives. Um, and we are in an era where, uh, things are changing by the minute, um, in areas like AI. And here we are 20, 26. Um, we're going to look back on a year like this as a year that many, many important things changed. And, um, I hope we're ready for it.

Speaker A: You're certainly right about that. Kara and I go back 30 years to my previous life in Telcom. She was covering the industry when I was up and coming in telecom. And so four times a year we'd get together and talk about where we thought this new thing, right, the Internet.com was going. And so she's had a remarkable vision in helping to really coalesce and help people understand all of these technological changes, many of which seem to be happening right here in Arizona today.

Speaker B: That's right.

Speaker A: So Matt, thank you so much for being on the Commons. It has been a pleasure and thank you for sharing all of your knowledge with our audience.

Speaker B: Thank you, Tom.

Speaker A: My guest this afternoon has been Matt Ellsworth. He is the Chief Operating Officer of the Flynn Foundation. I'm Tom Osha and this has been the Commons. The Commons is a production of Wexford Science and Technology, llc. Views and opinions expressed are solely those of the host and guest. To view additional material about today's episode, submit ah questions or story ideas or learn more about Wexford Science and technology, please visit www.wexfordscitech.com. the Commons. I'm your host, Tom Osha. Thanks for listening.