Getting Patient-Centric Healthcare Marketing Right

1 - > Welcome to the Art of Marketing Operations a tailor podcast. Here you can grow 2 - > your knowledge about marketing operations, listen to ideas and strategies to help you scale, 3 - > grow and optimize your efficiency, drive your speed to market, and enrich 4 - > your work life. Let's get to it. Welcome to the Art of Marketing 5 - > Operations a tailor podcast.

I'm Glenn Bottomley, and today my guest is Jacivi 6 - > Asylum, chief Growth Officer at you Care, an independent nonprofit health plan providing 7 - > health coverage and services like Medicaid, Medicare, individual and family plans across Minnesota 8 - > and western Wisconsin. Thanks for joining us today, Jay, Yeah, thanks 9 - > for inviting me. Glenn, I'm excited to be here well me too. 10 - > Well with your extensive experience in healthcare, I know that you are passionate about 11 - > using marketing operations to make the world a healthier place.

So as we start 12 - > out here, can you just give us a high level overview about why are 13 - > you so passionate about this? Well? Fantastic, Glenn, and I got 14 - > my undergraduate degree in the University of Minnesota with a degree in philosophy a concentration 15 - > in ethics, and I always thought to myself I want to tackle one of 16 - > life's big questions. And my gosh, what bigger question is there front than 17 - > health.

So after graduating, I went around town and I said, oh, 18 - > my gosh, this is fantastic. Healthcare is where it's at fast forward. 19 - > Today, I am part of an awesome organization called you Care, whose 20 - > mission is improving the health of our members. So combined personal passion with a 21 - > strong corporate mission, I'm absolutely so privileged to be here at you Care.

22 - > So again, thank you, Glynn. Excellent. Well, so I know 23 - > we chatted before. You have found and have seen some flaws in sort of 24 - > traditional healthcare marketing and in the healthcare marketing system.

So what are some of 25 - > the main tactics that you're trying to move away from and what tactics are you 26 - > trying to move towards. Yeah, great question, And maybe before I answer 27 - > that, let me give you some quick background on what I think makes healthcare 28 - > marketing so unique. So one, first of all, people in healthcare are 29 - > always moving between being emotional and logical. Right to take it.

Just for 30 - > an example, the average person spends about twenty two minutes a year, that's 31 - > it, looking at their insurance. Right, It's that time of year, 32 - > you're getting your forums in the office, You're like, oh my gosh, 33 - > this is the best plan for my family. I check the boxes, I 34 - > know what's coming out of my paycheck, and then god, you fast forward. 35 - > I've been there when your kid has an earache.

It's the middle of 36 - > the night, there's something going on. Do you pause and say, my 37 - > gosh, who is the best in network provider? Or drive to the er? 38 - > Because you're emotional, right, So I think it's really unique that throughout 39 - > a person's journey in healthcare, you're emotional, you're logical, you're any combination.

40 - > The other thing that I think is really unique about healthcare is the total 41 - > addressable market. It's everyone, right, Like all of us are consumers of 42 - > healthcare. So what does that mean? So what are some of the things 43 - > we're really trying to move away from.

So one is this concept of more 44 - > is better with healthcare, as we've learned that experience and making it simpler is 45 - > better. We historically tend to send people a lot of messages, a lot 46 - > of emails, a lot of print that sort of thing that's, as you 47 - > know, has gone the way of yesteryear. What we're moving towards super exciting. 48 - > This is where your marketing operations really is the backbone of your customer experience.

49 - > So how do we deliver more automated, digital, personalized experiences to meet 50 - > people where they are? And if that sounds familiar, it's not unique in 51 - > healthcare, right, it's we're finally adopting some of the best practices from other 52 - > industries. I love that, you know. And one of the things that 53 - > I know that is sort of embedded in what you were just chatting about, 54 - > is there is that human experience, the phenomenological experience, the lived experience of 55 - > humans dealing with healthcare.

And I know you talk a lot about human experience 56 - > within healthcare. So how do you see healthcare marketing and healthcare marketing operations helping 57 - > to become sort of better vehicles to improve that human experience. Yeah, let 58 - > me give you a perfect example. This is absolutely near and dear to my 59 - > heart.

So little background Minnesota. We have about five point seven million people 60 - > live in the state of Minnesota. Now, when it shock you, Glenn, 61 - > if I told you about twenty percent of people who live in Minnesota, 62 - > about one point two million people are on some form of medicaid or what we 63 - > call medical assistance in Minnesota. So that's a plan where the state helps pay 64 - > for their medical coverage.

And within that twenty percent of Minnesota's the biggest cohorts 65 - > are children or kids, people with disabilities, and the elderlies, our most 66 - > vulnerable populations. So why am I bringing this up? So you might be 67 - > familiar with this thing called COVID nineteen or on the tail end of that. 68 - > So a couple of years ago, the government said the country is going through 69 - > a public health emergency.

So everyone that's on the roles of a medicaid plan, 70 - > you are guaranteed coverage. Why is that important? Historically what happens is 71 - > every state, like Minnesota, every month looks to see if you're still eligible. 72 - > Is your income at a certain level right?

And if you aren't, 73 - > then you're no longer on that plan. Now that the public health emergency has 74 - > ended, every single state, including Minnesota, is going through the roles to 75 - > see who's eligible. Here's where marketing operations plays a gigantic role. As you 76 - > might imagine, it's not as simple as say no, I still make the 77 - > income requirements.

You have to fill out form after form after form. It's 78 - > way more complicated than your taxes. So from a marketing operations perspective. I 79 - > look at, my gosh, how do we reach people in an omni channel 80 - > way, whether it's through print, whether it's through email, whether it's through 81 - > text, whether it's through community events.

We need to reach out and let 82 - > people know. First of all, my gosh, you might still be eligible 83 - > in coverage by the way you have to fill out forms. It doesn't automatically 84 - > happen. We're here to help you.

So marketing operations reaching out is absolutely 85 - > critical to how we get our most vulnerable populations in Minnesota the coverage that they 86 - > need. It's that simple. It's simple and profound, but it's really challenging, 87 - > really hard to do well. I definitely see the point, and I 88 - > can see how in your descriptions how marketing operations can definitely shape the sort of 89 - > the human patient experience.

So then in your experience, then how does or 90 - > how could marketing operations then scale that human experience? Is it? Is it 91 - > just through better connectivity to the patient. It's understanding the patient, you know, 92 - > experience better, understanding them from a from a data perspective better.

How 93 - > can marketing operations help to scale the human patient experience? Yeah? Great question, 94 - > and I think it's three things. It's better, it's more, and 95 - > it's tailored.

So here's what I mean by that. Certainly better, like 96 - > as you were talking about, it's when we have that data we can start 97 - > to understand. Okay, you know John Doe really prefers us to stick to 98 - > you email messaging that he can control. Jando might say, no, I 99 - > want to get it all, send me your print.

I want to keep 100 - > all of that. So that's great when I talk about more. Part of 101 - > what makes healthcare unique is we're challenged by equity and access problems. And let 102 - > me give you an example.

Is we all know during the COVID crisis, 103 - > we saw a lot of uptick and behavioral health issues. And what a lot 104 - > of people might not know is that those increases in behavioral health challenges they're especially 105 - > prevalent along some of our most marginalized communities. So what we're trying to do 106 - > from a marketing operations perspective is how can we do things such as getting people 107 - > to sign up for virtual care providers one touch you can just click, talk 108 - > to a therapist, continue that conversation.

And what's unique about that is when 109 - > you do it that way, you can go to parts of rural Minnesota where 110 - > there's maybe less providers available, you can go and reach people who maybe you 111 - > don't have transportation to go into a doctor's office. The third part when I 112 - > talk about kind of more and better is the fact that, Hey, as 113 - > part of our marketing efforts, we always do our best to make sure to 114 - > get people more people under the tent so they see their best possible selves right 115 - > and they can do it.

I want to be clear, for some people 116 - > it is, hey, how do you reach out? How do you want 117 - > to become a healthier person? That's great, but honestly, Glenn, there 118 - > are some folks where you know, the best outcome from them is actually just 119 - > staying steady state. Maybe the best outcome from them is actually having a slower 120 - > decline.

Great part about you Care and our commitment to serving everyone is we're 121 - > really focused on making a human and meeting people where they are, and that 122 - > is the heart of what we're trying to do. That's very compelling, very 123 - > very compelling, because one of the things that sort of hits me when we 124 - > were chatting before was that you sort of described this shift or a move that 125 - > you and your team are sort of focused on trying to move a market moving 126 - > your members away from sort of this, if you can call it, a 127 - > quote unquote sick care mindset, to being focused really more on the whole well 128 - > being of a patient's really about wellness and health.

And I really I was 129 - > really taken by your phrase there that it was the best version of themselves, 130 - > their best health, their best perception of health for themselves. So what are 131 - > some of the steps that you're taking that's allowing you to accelerate that transition. 132 - > Yeah, the transition from what I might call it episodic care or sick care 133 - > quote unquote to something larger and more holistic. That's crucial to the transformation of 134 - > the entire healthcare system.

So here's something interesting. Did you know, Glenn, 135 - > that about seventy percent of what impacts our health lies outside of the typical 136 - > measures in the doctor's office, such as height, weight, to your blood 137 - > work. So, for example, I had my physical recently, went to 138 - > my doctor's office, and yeah, absolutely, can I lose a few pounds 139 - > one hundred percent? They get that part of it.

But you know what's 140 - > unique is the fact that hey, I am lucky enough to have transportation so 141 - > I can go to the doctor's office. I am lucky enough that I live 142 - > in a household where I'm not threatened by violence. I'm fortunate enough to have 143 - > food. So it's this combination of physical, behavioral and social drivers of health 144 - > that wrap around your kind of basic counting numbers, your height and your weight.

145 - > That holistic approach is what we call whole health, and that's why we 146 - > champion it at You Care. So when I think about what are we doing 147 - > to make that transition more from that episodic SIXN care to a whole health perspective, 148 - > I am super proud of the team for doing things such as non emergency 149 - > medical transportation, letting people know that you can get a ride to your checkup, 150 - > you could get a right to your doctor's office. We are putting healthcare 151 - > where people are like, whether it's setting up little clinics and barber shops, 152 - > whether it's working with local emams to help engage our Somali community.

We could 153 - > go on and on about what we're doing to fight social isolation, food in 154 - > security, but I think key takeaway is that from a marketing operations perspective and 155 - > really from a human perspective, if you know that there's a lot out there 156 - > and a person's single biggest driver of health honestly right now is their zip code, 157 - > because that tells you so much about them. What we're trying to do 158 - > is make sure that I have that support system not just in the doctor's office, 159 - > but that's seventy percent of it that wraps are around them.

That's going 160 - > to be the key to our long term healthcare transformation. What I find is 161 - > very interesting about what you just described is that if you look at healthcare as 162 - > you described it, that episodic healthcare, it's almost suboptimized healthcare. If I'm 163 - > thinking about it from a manufacturing perspective, from a manufacturing business perspective, that 164 - > if I look at how I'm moving a product through production, and if I'm 165 - > trying to only optimize each individual department, I might overbuild in one department, 166 - > which actually suboptimizes the next department if they're not ready for it, et cetera.

167 - > So it's the system's view, a systems theory, a systemic view of 168 - > healthcare, which I find is really interesting about how you're describing that, because 169 - > healthcare then becomes more ongoing, it becomes more experiential for the patient, as 170 - > opposed to don't think about healthcare at all until there's the episode, and then 171 - > I got to go to the urgent care or the emergency. Right, it 172 - > becomes it becomes more comprehensive. If what I'm hearing correctly, Yeah, you're 173 - > one hundred percent right.

It's this notion of and this has been the biggest 174 - > transformation. It is putting the person at the center of that healthcare ecosystem, 175 - > recognizing insurance companies, their doctors, their community, their family and friends all 176 - > play a key role to helping them live their best possible lives. That's a 177 - > notion that's common sense, but it's not common practice, and that's what we're 178 - > trying to drive from a transformation perspective. Yeah, and so, Jay, 179 - > how, how then do you think that healthcare marketers can best use, you 180 - > know, tools like marketing technology and other martech stacks and patient data, et 181 - > cetera.

How do you how can healthcare marketers use all that to support this 182 - > systemic view of healthcare. Yeah, this is a fantastic time to be a 183 - > healthcare marketer. I would say over the last five or six years, healthcare 184 - > has gone through this big transformation where we recognize that human experience, patient experience 185 - > really is at the center of everything. We need to do, and honestly, 186 - > Glenn, we're taking a lot of cues from our friends in retail and 187 - > finance who have got a nice job of really figuring out how do you do 188 - > omnichannel engagement, how do you get high utility?

So what we're trying to 189 - > do is this, just like any of our other vertical friends, we are 190 - > taking advantage of consumer insights, data driven marketing to identify folks that could benefit 191 - > from certain type of clinical engagement. Here's one big difference, however, So 192 - > when I go back to what I said at earlier, healthcare is different, 193 - > right, people move between emotional and logical. It's also important to note it's 194 - > different because you and I we really don't interact with our health plan on a 195 - > daily basis.

Right. You might check your stocks every day, You maybe 196 - > go in your bank account every day, that sort of thing. The reality 197 - > is you do that pretty and frequently for your health plan. But you know 198 - > what, when you do interact with us, it's pretty in depth and offits.

199 - > It's on the phone. So one of the things we're doing from a 200 - > martech and a data perspective is that we are taking all that great unstructured data 201 - > from all of those calls, we're really taking a look and saying, hey, 202 - > what are those insights we can do. So, for example, our 203 - > customer service team is implementing a platform that will give us a clear picture of 204 - > the number of touch points the person has, both with call and mailings and 205 - > everything, so we can start to customize that and then based off their tone 206 - > of the voice, the words that they're saying, it helps build a profile 207 - > on how we might engage them in a very personalized way.

Just like anything 208 - > else, right, the more we know about those members and their experiences, 209 - > the better we can tailor that to them. Mm hmmm. Well this I 210 - > was kind of remembering back to when we met before and you you used this 211 - > phrase which I thought was fascinating, which was that you want to make sure 212 - > that you stay cool not creepy, and and so when when you're talking about 213 - > personalization in healthcare marketing, so, so, how do you walk that fine 214 - > line to make sure that you're always staying on the cool side and not sort 215 - > of flipping over to the creepy side.

Yeah, that's that's just one of 216 - > my favorite basis. And here's me say this all the time, my guys. 217 - > We have to be hashtag cool, not creepy. Right, it's others 218 - > to say, right, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should 219 - > do something or you know, as a wise man once said, with great 220 - > power comes great responsibility.

So I look at it this way right at you 221 - > care. We have internalized our mission. We live it every day, and 222 - > one of the lenses I look through and the way it manifests is through our 223 - > thinking about how does every action we take impact trust? How does this impact 224 - > the trust that our members have in us?

So it really goes back to 225 - > your previous comments about how we might use that data. Look, we're your 226 - > insurance company. We have a plethora of super confidential, super personal information and 227 - > we treat that very very seriously, and so for us, it's all about 228 - > value exchange. If a person agrees and says, hey, you know what, 229 - > I trust you.

I would like to know what are some things I 230 - > could be doing better? Then great. So perfect example, if our data 231 - > says, you know, maybe a person has been missing their regular immunization, 232 - > maybe our data says, hey, they haven't gotten their annual mirmography. We 233 - > can reach out to that person and say, hey, you know, we 234 - > noticed you haven't gotten this.

What's going on? Is there something we can 235 - > do to help and what makes us unique time backed altiately said earlier. Oftentimes 236 - > it's not just the person might not know. There might be shame, they 237 - > can't afford to do it, they might not have transportation to get there, 238 - > they might not have a sitter to take care of their kids.

We will 239 - > work with them right to make sure that happens, close that gap in care. 240 - > And you keep doing that over time, and then that's how you build 241 - > trust. Taking it one step further. What that means is once I start 242 - > to have that cool of trust capital, as I like to call it, 243 - > that lets the team reach out more proactively and say, you know, Glenn, 244 - > I might tell you, hey, you look like a really healthy guy, 245 - > but do you know that your plan has one touch access to a virtual 246 - > doctor.

So maybe next time when your kid wakes up in the middle of 247 - > the night, yeah, maybe you want to wait eight hours in the er, 248 - > but just remember, are you ready, just hit one button. You 249 - > can have a doctor, you can check it out, get your prescription. 250 - > When you build trust, you can start to have those dialogues and that's where 251 - > the marketing team can come in. We can start to get people ready to 252 - > go when the time is right.

M M. Well, and you've used 253 - > the word omni channel a couple of times. It sort of it brings to 254 - > mind this notion of omni channel healthcare, if you will. So, what 255 - > are some some sort of some of the next steps that you and your team 256 - > are taking sort of towards that vision.

I think about it three basic rules, 257 - > and I think this applies outside of healthcare. I would go on record 258 - > saying that I think more and more there is a playbook, and to me, 259 - > it's as simple as make sure your mission driven business aligned contextually relevant. 260 - > So if we go into that a little bit, mission driven, I think 261 - > most organizations don't have a plethora of great ideas. However, the challenge rises 262 - > to how do you pick the week from the chat?

How do you move 263 - > forward? And to me, the number one thing is you have to focus 264 - > your omni channel to element on things that are core to your organization. What 265 - > is truly unique and purposeful about your mission. If you do that, probably 266 - > on the right track.

The second part business aligned. I had an old 267 - > boss that's a jay make sure you don't major in the minors. And what 268 - > he meant by that is, hey, listen, you can do a lot 269 - > of things, but make sure you are picking things that I don't rely align 270 - > with your mission. But I really tried tied to those biggest business drivers.

271 - > Okay, that's good, that makes sense, right, it's trying to avoid 272 - > that's so called shiny penny syndrome. And then finally, contextually relevant. This 273 - > goes without saying this is critical in healthcare, but it means being there at 274 - > the right time with the sense of immediacy and attacking things with the sense of 275 - > urgency. So, for example, it doesn't help anyone if you know, 276 - > four weeks after you go into a doctor's visit you get a note that says, 277 - > oh, by the way, did you know you could have saved money 278 - > and done X instead.

Let's flip that script around, right, Glenn. 279 - > If we have all this information, why can't we be predictive and proactive and 280 - > say, hey, Glenn, it looks like you're behind on your physical would 281 - > you like us to go ahead and schedule that for you. We're happy to 282 - > do that. So again, for me, I think being mission driven, 283 - > business aligned, contextually relevant.

If you can check those three things off more 284 - > often than not, you have a great chance for success. Powerful advice there 285 - > and so then how then do you see that sort of working with both physical 286 - > and digital marketing strategy, specifically within the patient experience realm. Yeah, it 287 - > is. It's really important that you have that great synergy that blending a physical 288 - > and digital together.

So here's an example. I've worked with a large hospital 289 - > chain and we did some really interesting partnerships where we got people to opt in 290 - > and they agreed, Okay, if you're going into the physical er urgent care 291 - > space of that particular hospital chain, we would receive that data as the insurance 292 - > company in real time. Person again it agreed to do this, and we 293 - > would send them a note saying, hey, you know what you've got about 294 - > a two hour wait?

Would you like us to try to help you find 295 - > something quicker? And that quicker modality could be another non urgent care doctor that 296 - > was openly. It could be get on a live chat with one of our 297 - > nurse practitioners, could be with a virtual doctor visit with somebody in another time 298 - > zone. So by doing that, you got to meet the person literally where 299 - > they are in that contextually relevant setting, like literally in the doctor's office.

300 - > We got to manage the care and partner between the patient, the clinic, 301 - > and the insurance company. It was a rare triple win where everyone felt, 302 - > everyone got costs down, satisfaction up, and everybody was healthier. So that 303 - > I will call a big win, and that's absolutely trying to blend that physical 304 - > and digital seamlessly. Excellent example.

Well, Jay, before we wrap up 305 - > today's episode, what is the main takeaway that you want to share to help 306 - > understand the challenges facing marketing operations executives today? In my mind, the biggest 307 - > challenge facing marketing operations executives is that rapid pace of change. Right. It's 308 - > the need to adapt to not only all the increasing data and technology available to 309 - > us as marketing professionals, but also with the rapidly changing pace of people and 310 - > society as a whole, all these different segments, they're all over the place.

311 - > So in my view, the biggest takeaway is focus on mindset over skill 312 - > set over tool set. Here's what I mean mindset. Focus on how are 313 - > you mission driven, business aligned and context relevant? Get that mindset down two.

314 - > Think about your skill set and I don't mean it anymore just being really 315 - > good at the tools and the platforms We can get people who are doing it 316 - > that. If you really want to be a great marketing OPS executive, think 317 - > about your storytelling, your ability to influence without authority, how do you subscribe 318 - > ROI? And then finally and lastly, it's those platforms and tools, that 319 - > toolset. You know, why do I bring that up?

What's the reality? 320 - > Most organizations start with capital expenditures and they say, what's the platform we're 321 - > going to buy? Okay, now let's staff it with people. And at 322 - > the end they're like, okay, great, why aren't we saying results?

323 - > Well, because we haven't started with the mindset, like what are we trying 324 - > to do? Is it aligned with our mission? So again I'll keep it 325 - > simple, mindset over skill set over toolset. Excellent perspectives.

Well, that 326 - > wraps up this episode of the Art of Marketing Operations. Thank you so much 327 - > for joining us today. Jay, Yeah, thank you so much, Glenn, 328 - > I loved being here. Great day.

Well until next time, stay 329 - > safe and take it. Thank you for listening to the Art of Marketing Operations 330 - > brought to you by Taylor. Don't forget to hit subscribe in your favorite podcast 331 - > player. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate, review, and share.