Copywriting III Turning Interest into Desire

Speaker A: Good afternoon, good morning, good evening, whatever it is, wherever and whenever you are, welcome to the main event. This is the antifragile Entrepreneur Weekly strategy podcast and I am your host, Seth Cherpak, also known as the Red Neo, the Liberator, the world's premier expert on AI driven entrepreneurship. Humble and proud of it, here to solve all your marketing mysteries, guide you on your journey to the mountaintop of entrepreneurial freedom, and bust out with the occasional 3am m beer conversation. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, this is the third podcast in a series on the good old Aida formula. And you've probably seen this if you've been in marketing or copywriting, in case you're not familiar. It goes attention, interest, desire, action. First you grab a person's attention, you turn attention into interest, and you turn an interest into desire. And then you turn their desire into action. And that action is the action to buy your product or service. That is the formula for taking a person from being a complete stranger or someone who's not paying any attention to your ads to someone who is buying from you. And I did not invent this formula. It's a very popular formula you've probably heard about out there on the Internet. But there is nobody out there who is teaching this at the depth and the precision that I am and who has developed, developed a complete end copywriting system that is AI friendly and can help you to create these types of messages for your marketing funnel. No matter what type of funnel it is, no matter what industry you're in, no matter who you're marketing to. And it is also the only copywriting formula endorsed by the one and only Dan S. Kennedy. Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that is me, Seth Chair back the Red Neo, the author of the Anti Fragile Sales System. And you can find my book, the antifragile sales system at theantifragilesalessystem.com where you can get it for just Drum roll please. $1. You're probably wondering, why the hell would he sell decades of marketing experience and the most refined copywriting funnel copywriting system, AI friendly funnel copywriting system in the world for just a dollar. Well, I know that if you start using this system or even start looking at it, you're going to realize that you need to come up and work with me and my team full time. Uh, he said shamelessly. So that's why I'm giving it away for just a dollar. Right? If you can apply this system on your own, great. You're going to get tremendous results. But most people are going to need help. And that's why I sell it for only a dollar, because it introduces you to our system. And then you're going to want to work with me and my team. But until then, this podcast is free and the book is only a dollar. And we're going to talk about how to take a person from you having their attention to them being interested, to them having the desire for your product or service, to them finally taking action. This is a psychological progression and I am telling you right now that the majority of marketers do not understand how to do this. They understand why you need to do it. And you probably see their posts on LinkedIn or on Facebook and their videos on YouTube where they say, this is the idea for me. The first you grab their attention and then you turn attention into interest. I mean, they almost just state the obvious, right? They'll say you got to have a catchy attention grabbing headline that grabs their attention, and then you have their attention. And it has to be something that grabs attention. And they keep using the words over and over. But what the hell do you actually do with the information that they give you? Well, a lot of the time their advice is not practical and precise enough to apply and you don't really know if you got it right. Mine is the only system in the world that systematizes this in such a way to where you can train AI to speak like you, to apply these formulas to talk to your audience about your product or service and get people's attention, turn it into interest, desire, action. And I also show you how to troubleshoot every single step of this process. And I teach that in chapter 12 of my book, the Antifragile Sales System. So in the first two podcasts in this series, we talked about how to grab attention. We talked about how to turn attention into interest. And in this third, can you guess what we're going to talk about? That's right. How to turn interest into desire. Now, there are 10 copywriting techniques in this series. You can find these articles for free on my website. Yes. I do not charge you a penny for this treasure trove of copywriting knowledge. I'm telling you right now that there is not another copywriting course anywhere that is as complete and comprehensive as these 10 free articles on my website. The teachings and the examples in these articles are so precise that I have actually gotten on coaching calls with clients where I've taken links to my articles. I fed them to AI and said, read this article and learn the technique. And then asked AI to rewrite an ad using the technique and what has come out the other end has been absolutely spectacular because it's like in the Matrix when Neo learns kung fu by just plugging that thing into his brain. Well, you can do the same thing by plugging my copywriting articles into AI So hopefully I've gotten you really excited about going to buy my book for $1 and going to read my free articles. And what I recommend you do is, is take one of them, one of these articles and read it every single day for a month or listen to it every single day for a month. Now, a lot of people I know aren't going to do that. They're going to say, why don't I just read it once? Why don't I just get AI to read it? The problem with getting AI to apply one of these techniques is you don't actually understand what it's doing underneath the hood. And that is a dangerous place for a marketer to be because you can't figure out where AI is just messing up, which it does quite a bit, and where it's getting things right. You need to be able to troubleshoot the messages that are pumped out by AI even if they're learning from my articles, and also troubleshoot your marketing funnels and figure out why the messages aren't working, where the weak links in them m are. And if you don't read these articles and read this material and you just depend on AI to read my stuff, well, you're not going to be armed with the knowledge to be truly successful. And I want that for you if you're willing to do the work. Okay, so the third article in my series, the first one is Relevance in Copywriting. That's all about how to get a person's attention. The second one is Curiosity in Copywriting, and that is all about how to turn attention into interest. And the third one that we're going to talk about today is Hope in Copywriting technique number three. And that is how to begin. Begin, right. That's the key word there. To turn interest into desire is through hope. Okay? Hope. Now, there are other things that you need to do to accompany or supplement these first three things. Attention, interest, and desire. So I don't want anyone thinking that these 10 articles are just going to take you from attention, interest, desire, and to action in a linear process. We cover the first three articles, right? We talk about relevance, curiosity, and hope. And that is attention, interest and desire. But then the process of actually really crystallizing that desire and turning it up to a full white hot passion for your product takes the other copywriting techniques that I talk about in this series, which is technique four, which is rapport and technique five, which is storytelling. Technique six, which is hypnotic copywriting, technique seven, which is emotional copywriting. And technique eight, which is suspense in copywriting, which teaches my infamous breadcrumbing technique, which is how you maintain a person's interest and use it to get them all the way from the beginning of your sales funnel all the way down to the end. Right? It's that cliffhanger factor that makes you sit down and watch one Netflix show and say, I'm going to sit down and watch this, and then I'm going to stop. But then, next thing you know, you're sitting down and watching the whole damn series. You know, binge watching it in a weekend or in a couple weekends. And then, of course, the last two techniques. Number nine is positioning in copywriting. And that's how. That's one of the pieces of turning desire into action. And then there's urgency in copywriting, which is. You can see these names are a little bit seoey. You know, they're kind of generic names. Urgency in copywriting is really just talking about getting a person to take action now instead of later. And I'm telling you right now that a lot of the urgency out there that you see coming from rubber chicken marketers is nonsense. They'll say things like, well, make a limited time offer and all this stuff. And that does not work, in fact, can even backfire on you, especially since 2020, that we are now in a trust recession, especially if you're selling information products or coaching. This trust recession win. Right now, we're going to come out of it, but there's people who are going to be destroyed by it, and there's people who are going to survive and thrive despite it. I'm going to teach you, actually how to become one of the second types. And so technique number 10, urgency and copywriting is about internal urgency. It's about making them want it so bad that they have to have it right now. Right? External urgency is different. That's when you make a limited time offer. And external urgency will backfire on you and will erode people's trust if you do not accompany it with internal urgency. Okay? But all of these, all 10 of these techniques are the mosaic for turning attention into interest, interest and desire, and desire into action. And action, of course, meaning they're buying your product or service. And then there's a complimentary article that goes along with these called DNS Kennedy on dog whistle marketing, which is also the forward to my book, the antifragile Sales System. That's what we're covering. So we're going to talk about hope. Hope is the key to turning interest into desire. Hope. Think of hope as the fuel that turns up the volume on the interest that you originally created. Until they can feel it in their nervous system. That is absolutely crucial. Until they can feel it in their nervous system. This is absolutely the biggest, most important, most valuable, most marked difference between ordinary old advertising messages and truly crackling copy. Copy that just grabs your reader by the eyeballs and drags them towards your cart page and gets them to whip out their credit card and furiously type in the numbers and buy your product. Right? That's what makes a person do that. It's copywriting that you can actually feel a transformation happening in your body. I call this creating a synthetic experience. A synthetic experience is where your reader, your audience, can imagine the benefits of your product or service so clearly and so vividly that it changes their brain chemistry. Okay, listen very carefully. I'm going to say that again, because this is absolutely solid gold. A synthetic experience. An experience where your reader can imagine the benefits of your product or service so clearly and vividly that it changes their brain chemistry. I want you to think about this before I get into the teaching, because this has to be real to you. It's kind of like, you know, you hear about going to another country or experiencing another culture. You read about it in books, you hear about it from people, but it's nothing like the actual immersive experience of being there. If you want your advertising messages, especially your paid advertising, to drag complete strangers towards your business with their credit cards in their hands, you need to know how to create this synthetic experience. There is no way around this. I understand that there are some people out there who just have a really good offer and they happen to be in a niche where they can put some mediocre ads out there, and they do pretty well. But if you want to be someone who just sticks a vacuum cleaner up to the market and just sucks money out of it, I'm really busting out with some metaphors today, aren't I? If you want to be one of those people, you need to write copy that actually physiologically changes a person's internal world. That's what I mean by changing their brain chemistry. I want you to think about this for a second. Think about the times we're going to go through a couple of these. Think about. Think about a time in your Life. When somebody said something that made you mad, that made you mad, and you actually felt this sudden tinge, this sudden release of adrenaline. You felt it right around your solar plexus, your heart area. You feel this little squirt of adrenaline. Maybe your spouse said something that made you mad. Maybe someone who you had a major crush on rejected you. Maybe someone rejected you for a job offer where you actually felt it in your body. Stop and think about this. Don't just listen and say, okay, that's interesting, I understand. What's that saying? Stop and really go through the inventory of your memories and find a memory where somebody said or did something to you that caused that physiological feeling in your body where you immediately felt your heart started beating faster, you started breathing faster, you just felt this electricity running through your body. That is a chemical change in your nervous system. That is a synthetic experience. You're actually embodying fear, anxiety, anger, whatever it is, right? That's what I mean. Now think about that. Think about the difference between that and something that you read. And it just conveys information. Maybe you read something and it tells you about a product. It tells you about what it does. It tells you about how long the person's been in business. It tells you all these really cool things about the product, but you don't feel any change in your body when you're actually reading it. It's so important that you understand this. Most marketing messages are like this. They don't actually create any type of a sensation in the person's body. And sure, this type of marketing can still sell, but it's not going to sell like crazy. It's not going to sell the way that we want it to sell, right? And so your marketing needs to create that type of jolt in a person's body. Now, let's take another example. Think about a time when you really got turned on, right? Maybe it's when you kissed the person who you're dating right now, or someone who you really, really like, just fell in love with. I mean, that magical kind of love where all you could do is think about the person, right? That puppy dog love. Think about the first time you kissed that person, or the first time you held that person's hand, or the first time you hugged that person, the first time you had sex with them. Think about the physiological change, the euphoric energy that swept over your body like a, uh, wave of just divine light, okay? That is a chemical change in your body right? Now, I call that a synthetic experience because you don't actually here's the secret. Listen very carefully. You don't actually have to have the experience externally in order to have the synthetic experience. You don't have to have the experience externally in order to have the synthetic experience, right? I mean, you don't have to have sex to get turned on. You don't have to have someone touch you in one of your private parts to get turned on. Sometimes, you know, you see somebody or you hear a story, or somebody says something to you over the phone. That's why phone sex actually works. Yeah, I'm getting a little bit explicit here because I'm trying to be real with you guys about what good copy should do. There's a reason why phone sex is pleasurable for people even though they're not being touched by the other person. It's because the brain is act. The brain is actually the most potent sex organ in the entire body. I wrote a whole book on this. I can't even remember what it's called. It was a ghost writing project that I did for a book that was actually written in English and translated into French. But the entire thing was written for men. Teaching men how to seduce women and how to make them feel amazing in bed. And the primary message of the book is that a woman's most potent and powerful sex organ is her brain. It's the same thing with a guy. It's the same thing with any other human, right? Your brain can light up every single piece of you, right? Every single nerve ending in your nervous system. If you can put the right imagined experience inside the brain, that causes the release of these chemicals like oxytocin, dopamine, serotonin, norepinephrine, and vasopressin and all these hormones that is just this exotic soup of hormones that makes you want to hug puppies, eat ice cream, have sex, and buy things. Okay? That is what I'm talking about when I talk about synthetic experience. Some of you are probably thinking, okay, let's get to the copywriting. You are missing the point. If you're in a hurry for me to get to the actual techniques here, okay? Because if you understand what I'm conveying to you right now, if you get this, if you really let it, like, sink down into the cracks and crevices of your subconscious mind, this will change your life. It will change the way you communicate with people. It will absolutely change the way that people respond to you in all your interactions, especially in your marketing. If your words are capable of activating a person's nervous system in such a way to where they are having the same experience internally that they would have if they were having the experience externally. Okay, let's take one more, and then we're going to move on to some techniques. Think about a time in your life when something just made you, uh, euphorically happy. I mean, joyful, right? Maybe it was you hearing for the first time that you were going to be a mom or a dad. Maybe that wasn't euphoric at first, but maybe it was for some of you. Maybe it was the first time that that person who you weren't sure how they really felt about you, but you were madly in love with them, finally just revealed, without a doubt, their feelings for you, said that they loved you, said that they wanted to be with you, said they want to go out on a date with you, said that they always had a thing for you, right? Or maybe it was when that job that you always wanted, the person who had interviewed you finally called you and said, hey, we want you to start Monday. I want you to think. Just don't. Just listen to this. Search your mental inventory, search your memory and find that experience that you had that gave you this elated feeling of joy. Maybe you met somebody out of the bar and you got their phone number and you really were looking forward to having a date with them. And then you texted them the next day and they said, yeah, that'd be wonderful. Let's go out. Then you went out on the date, and when they first walked in the room, you just looked at them and your jaw dropped because they were even more handsome or more beautiful than you remember, right? Remember that magical feeling that you had when you sat down and talked to that person and found all the things that you had in common, all the things that you were aligned on, and you started seeing these visions of yourself walking down the aisle with this person, and you were already picking out the names of your babies and you were already imagining what it would be like to sleep with this person or to hold their hand as you're sitting, you know, on rocking chairs on the front porch of your house when you're 85 years old and you're just looking at the sunset of your life and remembering what an amazing life you've had, right? Think about all those experiences that you've had in your life that have literally changed your brain chemistry, changed your nervous system. Listen very carefully. There are two verses in the Buddhist Dhammapada that talk about this. It says, all that we are is a result of what we have thought. It is founded on our thoughts. It is made up of our thoughts, right? That's what the two verses say. And then the first verse says, if a man speaks or acts with an evil thought, pain follows him as the wheel follows the foot of the ox that draws the carriage. Right? That's the first one. It talks about pain. The second one it talks about if a man thinks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him like a shadow that will never leave him. Those are the contrasts between these synthetic experiences which what it's saying is that everything that we are on the inside as we experience the world, our internal experience comes not from the external things, but from our response, what happens in our imagination. You have to understand this, right? When somebody touches you or when somebody hugs you or kisses you or says something to you that's affirming of your value. It is your internal experience that you're having. It's not the external thing. The external thing was just a trigger for the internal experience. And that internal experience is what made you do something different next. Maybe if you were angry and you did something you wouldn't normally have done, or maybe you were sad and you did something you normally would not have done, or you were joyful and you ecstatically, uh, happy, and you were more courageous than normal. All of those synthetic experiences that you're thinking of right now that have happened in your life, whether they made you mad, whether they made you horny, whether they made you joyful, whether they made you perplexed or confused or scared, whatever they were, all of them had a profound impact on what you did next, on your actions. That is what we want to create when we arouse desire with our marketing message. Now, can you get by without doing this? Sure, you can make some sales, but you're never going to create one of those funnels that just sucks up money like a vacuum cleaner, okay? If you want to do that, you need to know how to create these internal synthetic experiences. And that's what I mean by hope. In copywriting, you see, when it talks in the Dhammapada about if a man speaks or acts with a pure thought, happiness follows him like a shadow that never leaves him. Or it could be her. It's talking about hope, that feeling that everything's going to work out, that everything's going to be okay, that something so much better than what you're experiencing is just at your fingertips, and all you got to do is reach out and take it. That's hope. And it's hard to get a person to act without Desire without hope. Now, let me drop another bomb on you. This is the most important secret in marketing, actually, that I'm about to drop on you right here. Creating this feeling, creating this desire is more important than giving them reasons to buy from you. I'll say that again. Creating the desire for them to believe you, the desire for them to have the experience that your product or service promises is more important than making the case to buy, than giving them reasons to buy. Folks, this has got to be one of the. Or, this is really important. I know, because I just use the word folks, and I never do that. Help me. Jesus. This is the secret sauce of compelling copywriting. Because if a person has the desire to believe you, they will accept almost any reason you give them, even if the reasons are illogical. Now, I do not recommend that you use this unethically, okay? I think you should be ethical. But there is nothing wrong with using hope and using desire to sell a person if you're selling something truly valuable to them. The point being that you can use it either way. If you create a strong enough desire for a person to believe you, they will accept almost any reason you give them. And, folks, I do not care how well educated the person is or how big the purchase is or whether it's B2B. Forget all that junk, okay? You're selling to a person who is living inside the same nervous system that all of us are. Same chemicals. Oxytocin, dopamine, norepinephrine, vasopressin, all of those. Serotonin. I might not have mentioned that one. All those feel good buying chemicals. Some people, sure, they aren't able to produce those as fast as others. You know, you can have chemical imbalances, but basically, if you're a biological human being, you have those. And this will work, okay? Don't fall into one of these traps where, oh, my, buyers are more sophisticated than that. The hell they are. Why do you think it is that powerful people who are millionaires and billionaires and who have all kinds of money and power and influence and leverage still make dumb decisions about who to marry. Still make dumb decisions about how to run a country. Oh, come on. Somebody, you know what I'm talking about, still make dumb decisions about how to manage their health, right? It's because we are biological life forms and we are highly, highly prone to irrational decision making, especially when we want to believe something or when we have a desire for something that's strong enough. This is really obvious in the world of politics. People believe what they want to believe. And then they look for things to support what they want to believe. And including people who out there who think that they're the exception to this rule. Sure, some people are more self aware than others and can override this impulse. But folks, nobody is invincible. I don't care who you are listening to this thinking that, oh, that doesn't apply to me. The hell it doesn't. You're a biological life form, it does apply to you, okay? And even if it doesn't apply to you to the degree that it does to a lot of other people, guess what? Most of your target market, this is how they operate and they aren't even consciously aware of it being someone who is consciously aware of it. I can manage this type of impulse in myself, but even I fall into this trap and I know about this stuff and I teach this stuff, okay? So the desire to believe is the first thing to create. If you try to give someone, uh, a bunch of reasons to believe you and reasons to buy from you without creating the desire, they may buy from you anyway. If they're already sold on the idea, if they were already looking for the product, if they it's an impulse buy. But they're not going to have this feverish desire to pay more money for your product than they would for any other product and be glued to your brand with a cult like level of loyalty unless you can create this type of desire, okay? This is absolutely essential. The desire to believe is the most important thing. And when you create hope, you create a desire for a person to believe you. Now I'm going to define hope in the context of copywriting as the anticipation of a relevant and valuable experience. Right? That is the Professor Seth version of the definition. The anticipation of a relevant and valuable experience. The key word being anticipation. Hope is when your reader expects to experience the benefits of your offer and when they are emotionally involved in that expectation. Think about this. Think about how many qualified prospects see your ads several times or more and never respond to them. Think about that. Think about how many people land on your website, read a few pages and never come back, really feel that lost revenue and lost opportunity. Think about how many people subscribe to your email list and never open your emails or sometimes open and click one, but they never buy anything. Think about how many people have bought from you one time and never buy from you again. Think about how many visitors leave your site and buy from a competitor instead of from you. At some point, listen very carefully. At some point, that person was interested enough to take a look at your website, read your content, watch your videos, or subscribe to your email. But as time passed, they simply lost the perceived value of your offer. Think about that. At some point, that person was interested enough to take a look at your website or your content or your video or describe to your email. But as time passed, they simply lost the perceived value of what you were offering. Oh, I know that hurts. And guess what? That person has money. That person is spending money every day on something. They are not spending it on what you are offering because they do not have the true desire for it. They didn't so much forget about it as they forgot about how they felt about its value. In other words, they lost the anticipation of experiencing its benefits. That's what I mean by hope. They lost the feeling of anticipation that they would experience the benefits of your offer. That's what they lost. Or they never had it in the first place. How costly is this that your messages are not doing this? How much money is it costing you? You know, the biggest cost in life is missed opportunity, because we're blind to it. A lot of the time. If I go home and I look at my bank account and I, you know, had $50,000 in my bank account, and then I realize I have 49,000 and I haven't touched it, I've lost a thousand bucks, and I can feel the sting of it. If I lose 10,000, I really feel the sting. If I lose all 50,000, I really feel the sting. Right. That's lost money. But you know what? We don't feel the opportunities that we would have had, but that we never really lost because we never had them in the first place. Like, maybe if I had an opportunity to make $50,000 and I passed it by, do you think I'd feel it with the same sting as I felt that $50,000 being drained from my bank account? No, but am I losing that money? Absolutely. And if you're marketing and you're not creating hope with your messages, you are losing the opportunity to make a ton of money. Really think about that for a second. If you had started applying these things a year ago, take how much you're making now and add at least 20% to it, at least. I would say you could probably double it over the past maybe. Let's go 18 months, you could double what you were making, and that's how much more you could have made if you had applied these copywriting techniques. This is what you are losing. Losing because you don't know how to do this with your copy. The good thing Is you're here and you're learning. Now on the flip side, think about this. Have you ever really wanted something? I have. Hell, I still remember how badly I not wanted needed my first guitar. I'd wanted to play the guitar since I was about 7, but I didn't get to buy a guitar until I was about 17. Um, imagine what those 10 years must have been like. My desire to own a guitar and to play it never waned over those 10 years. In fact, it just grew stronger. I wanted it more and more. I could almost feel the damn thing in my hands every time I heard a song by Jon Bon Jovi or Journey or Poison. Yes, I'm that old. I know I don't look it. When I was 17, after my first two weeks having a job, my very first paycheck, that feeling that I'd had for 10 years made me run to the gas station with my first paycheck because that's how we cashed checks back, then hurry to my local music store and dump every penny of my new check into putting my first guitar on layaway. Think about that. Ten years. The first time I made any money, that was the first thing that I bought. I was broke. I was making what was minimum wage back then, 415 an hour. 10 years, damn it. And I never lost the desire to feel that guitar in my hands and to hear the sounds coming out of it. You ever wanted something that badly and for that long M. Maybe you had to save up the money for it. Maybe you had to go into debt for it. Maybe you need to shop around for a few weeks. But that anticipation of driving the new car or living in the house or taking the vacation or playing with a new toy never left you. My point is that when you really want something, you can't help but remember how you feel about it. Do not miss this. When you really want something, you can't help but remember how you feel about it. Because it's not a memory. It's something that's living in your body. This is the difference between interest and desire. This is the secret to using hope in copywriting. Because even if a person leaves your funnel, if you create desire, the type of desire I'm talking about that lives in their body, they will not be able to forget how they felt about wanting that end result. That desire will not leave them if you create it. And guess what's going to happen when they see your ad again? They're going to be more likely to buy a lot of people. They just have to keep Putting their ad in front of the person. Keep putting it up there and keep putting it up there. But there's nothing internal that's happening inside that person that's making them go, oh, there's that thing I want. That's the difference. I still remember my first kiss. Do you? I still remember the first time I caught a largemouth bass without my dad's help. I remember the first time I shot a gun. You could tell I grew up as a redneck, right? I remember the first time I lifted weights, the first song I wrote. I remember my first time playing in a rock and roll band. I remember my college graduation ceremony. The first time I voted. I remember my first day working a job. I remember my first car accident. I remember vivid and specific details about my first three dates with the love of my life. Well, so far that didn't work out. But anyway, uh, there are people who I've met in my life who I still remember our first interaction because of how I feel about that person. I'm sure you have your own list of memorable experiences. You remember where you were when those things happened. You remember who you were with. You probably remember the song that was playing. Most importantly, you remember how you felt. You remember these things because you relive them every time you think of them. That is the difference between a high definition memory, a synthetic experience, and a bland black and white mental record of raw facts. Which is what most fucking marketing is just barf, right? The purpose of hope in copywriting is to create this same feeling in your reader every time they imagine themselves using your product or service. That's what you do when you're creating desire and hope. Now we're going to spend a couple of podcasts on this because you need to get this. The techniques are not as important as the principles. So the first persuasive copywriting techniques in my 10 part series form the foundation of good copywriting. But they also build on one another, right? In the previous podcast we talked about curiosity in copywriting and that's how you turn attention into interest. The next thing we need to do is turn interest into desire. Now let's go all the way back to the first technique. Relevance, right? Grabbing their attention. You do that by entering the conversation in their head on two levels. Number one is semantic level. That's by fusing your message with your readers internal dialogue. That's the semantic level. That's a left brain level. But the second is the emotional frame of that dialogue. And that's where hope comes in. The emotional frame of that dialogue. The difference is that while relevance is based on the problem your product or service solves, hope is based on its benefits and on freedom from the problem that your product or service solves. What is your reader's internal dialogue when they imagine themselves enjoying the benefits of being free of the problem that your product or service solves? Now, I'm saying it that way because I could say the benefits of your product or service, but it's not your product or service they care about, it's solving the problem. There are benefits for solving that problem. And if they could skip buying your product or service and go right to that benefit, believe me, they would. Right? If they could get a genie to come out of a lamp and to give them that benefit on a silver platter without them having to do anything, they would do it. It's called energy conservation and there's nothing wrong with that. Okay, well, human. We want to conserve energy so that we can use it for other things. And so if there were a shortcut, all of us would use it, right? And we would go out and develop character some other way if we were into that. But that's human nature. So it's the benefit, right? That is, hope has nothing to do with your product and everything to do with what they want their life to look like after they have used your product or service or while they're using it effectively. For example, this is what you've been waiting for, right? For example, imagine our reader is an amateur male bodybuilder who wants to gain 20 pounds of lean muscle. Here's what he may say to himself during his daydreams or musings or conversations about achieving that goal. He might say, I want to build a bigger chest and arms. I want to be one of the biggest guys at my gym. I want people to stare when I take off my shirt. These are examples of semantic hope. Semantic hope, internal dialogue, left brain. The language people are speaking when they talk about hope. All of these statements match the internal dialogue of our young amateur bodybuilder. Semantic hope is important for clarifying our readers desires in plain language. However. However, semantic hope lacks the emotional fuel needed to turn their hope into. Into eager anticipation. For example, I can say, hey, do you want a bigger chest and arms? Buy this supplement. You want to be one of the biggest guys at your gym? Get this bench press routine. You want people to stare when you take your shirt off at the beach. Here's a six pack abs formula. You see what I'm doing here? I'm just appealing to the Semantics of the person's hope. But the bigger and more important question when it comes to creating this synthetic experience that we've been talking about is what emotions are behind our young amateur bodybuilders internal, uh, dialogue. And this can apply to anybody. Don't be one of these people who gets distracted and thinks, well, this doesn't apply to my business because he's talking about bodybuilders. Forget about that. Focus on the principle. Okay? What feeling is attached to that? Is it pride? Is it personal validation or significance? Is it excitement? Does he feel safer being one of the big guys who nobody would dare to mess with? Answer these questions and you've got both. The essential ingredients of creating desire. Turning interest into desire. Bottom line, if your product or service delivers a valuable benefit, you can bet on two things. Number one, your prospects are thinking about that benefit. They're probably talking to people about it. Number two, your prospects are feeling something when they think or talk about it, even if they're detached from this feeling. Right. Some people are more emotionally aware than others. You can still crank up a person's emotions and get them to make decisions whether they're aware of them or not. In fact, I would say that people who are less aware of, of their emotional states are more likely to act on their emotions. That's a whole other topic we can get into, but, uh, I think Carl Jung would approve that statement. So the thinking relates to their internal dialogue. When they're thinking about the benefit that relates to their internal dialogue. The monkey chatter, the left brain. The feeling relates to the emotional context or the emotional frame of that dialogue. You apply hope and turn interest into desire by matching your message to both of these. This is how we'll turn our readers curiosity into eager desire. Right. Eager desire. I hope you're with me so far on this. Now let's talk about how this is actually done, because that was a lot to cover. Semantic relevance is how they're thinking about it in terms of the language they use to describe it, either to themselves or talking to somebody else. The emotional relevance is the emotional frame. And this is where a lot of people just, they miss it. They miss the mark. Let's start with an example. Let's stick with the example we've been using for the past couple of podcasts. This is the. Well, not the last couple podcasts. Let's stick with the example that we just brought up. The amateur bodybuilder who wants to gain 20 pounds of lean muscle. And again, focus on the principle. Don't get lost in the fact that I'm talking about a niche that may not be your niche. This applies to any product or service. In the example I'm about to read, I'm going to, uh, just stop for a second and show you where I've applied some of the techniques we've talked about in this series. Okay, so here we go. Remember, we're talking to the amateur bodybuilder who wants to gain 20 pounds of lean muscle. Here we go. Headline. How I went from being a hard gainer to one of the biggest guys at my gym. Now, a hard gainer is a term you probably are not familiar with, but this target market, believe me, they would know exactly what it means. It means a person who has a very hard time putting on muscle. That's it. Okay, so who am I talking to? Hardgainers. This ad is specifically for hardgainers who want to be big. Proceeding with the ad itself, I once idolized the big guys at my gym. They'd stroll in with Jason Momoan pecs delts like football helmets and rippling biceps with garden hose veins. I just stare in boiling envy, saying to myself, that guy's got to be on steroids. Now, in the original ad, I said, gotta be on the juice. But that's the terminology that you may not be familiar with. But notice how I open this up by entering a conversation that probably does go on in this person's mind pretty frequently, right? They look at the big guys in the gym and they look at them and they say that there must be something about him, his genetics, maybe he's on steroids. I'm never going to be that big, right? That is a regular conversation that happens to this market. And I know that because I know this market. I've written for him. So continuing the ad would go like this. Five years of killing myself at the gym and eating like a horse just to gain a whopping 10 pounds. However, today I'm one of the biggest guys at my gym. Now, the big guys stare when I take off my shirt. I get comments and questions from the other skinny guys, like what bicep exercises do you do? What supplements do you take? What's your chest routine? Think this can't happen to you? You won't for long. Here's the first thing you need to know about getting big. Now, there's a lot in there. That's the end of the example. Well, it's not the end of the actual copy. Obviously. It went on. That's the end of the example. Now, you may be listening to this and going, I wouldn't buy. I wouldn't pay attention to that ad. That is one of the biggest mistakes you can make is to hear an ad and say, well, that can't be. It can't work because I wouldn't respond to it. You're not the target market, okay? Do not ever look at an ad and make a decision about it based on what you think. Okay? Number one, you're probably not an expert. Even if you think you are, there are very few experts. There's a lot of people out there who think they're experts. I'm not trying to be mean, but there's a lot of people out there who think they understand marketing, who simply don't. And if you want to know whether you do or not, look at the results you're getting. Are you making a ton of money? If not, you probably don't get marketing very much, okay? And definitely don't listen to other people say, well, I would never respond to that. One man's trash is another man's treasure. An ad that is absolutely compelling to one person may sound ridiculous and cheesy and spammy, even to somebody else. That's dog whistle language, right? Dan Kennedy talks about that in the foreword of my book. So don't get distracted by the fact that this may not sound like it's talking to you. What I'm saying here to this target market is extremely relevant to it. These people want the experience of walking through the gym and everyone's staring at them and saying, wow, I wonder what type of bicep exercises that guy does? What type of supplements does he take? You know, they want people walking up to them at the gym and asking them, how the hell did you get so big right now? So that is how I created hope. I used the other person's story, the person who's speaking, to allow the reader to live vicariously through the speaker in order to imagine this happening to them. Now, this is a very delicate subject because a lot of people say, well, uh, shouldn't you talk about them? Shouldn't you talk about what is in it for them? That depends on your target market. If they have a lot of doubt about their ability to achieve the result, telling it through a third party story is a good way to do what's called an indirect negotiation or a vicarious negotiation, where they get to experience a story in somebody else's shoes and through that experience start to believe it can happen for them. Here's the key. Whoever's shoes they're experiencing it through has to be someone they relate with has to be someone they relate with. That's why I started out by saying how I went from being a hard gainer to one of the biggest guys at my gym. I said I went from being a hard gainer. In other words, I was a hard gainer. I'm speaking to hard gainers. I opened up the letter by saying I once idolized the big guys at the gym and I wondered whether they were on the juice, all that stuff, because the reader who I'm talking to is having those same experiences. So in other words, I'm saying, hey, I used to be like you. I used to do exactly what you're doing right now. And I know what you're doing right now. You're worrying about why you can't gain any muscle. Meanwhile you're looking at the other guys at the gym and thinking they must be on the juice. You've been killing yourself eating like a horse and you've only gained a little bit, right? I said all of those things in the beginning of this story, but I didn't just tell a third party story. I told it in such a way to where the person was comfortable inserting themselves into that story because they were doing it through somebody else as the avatar, somebody else as a person experiencing the result. And slowly but surely, I'm going to convince them that they can get the same result because why they're in the same exact place that this person was now. And all I've got to do is transform their belief to where they say, hey, you know what? If that person did it, so can I. What you got for me? What product or service do I buy to make sure this happens? That is how I created hope. I painted this picture after I entered the conversation going on in their mind after I aroused interest by saying, today I'm one of the biggest guys at my gym. Obviously there is a missing how there, right? I skipped immediately from talking about what my experience was like before and what it was like now. And there is an open loop there. There's a person wondering, well, how do they do it? What happened between the time when he was like that and the time that he was like he is now? And that's how I planned a seed of curiosity. And then I pumped up the person's hope by saying, here's what people are doing to me when they walk up to me, okay? So that's how I created hope. I painted a vivid picture in their mind of what their life could look like if they went through this transformation. Themselves. But notice I first entered a conversation going on in their mind. I created interest through the missing how. And then I added desire. I began to add desire by creating hope. Now listen to what I did next. I said, think. This can't happen to you, too. You won't for long. Here's the first thing you need to know about getting big. Now, here's an important rule of copywriting. This is worth writing down. Anytime you're writing copy and you feel stuck about what to say next, ask yourself one question. What did I just get the person to think by saying what I just said to them? What did I just get the person to think by saying what I just said to them? Let's go to this ad again. Listen to what I just said to them. Today, I'm one of the biggest guys at my gym. Now, the big guys stare at me when I take off my shirt. I get comments and questions from skinny guys. What bicep exercises do you do? What supplements do you take? What's your chest routine? If I said that to somebody who had a lot of doubt about whether this could happen for them, what do you think they're going to think in response to that? Oh, that could never happen for me. And what did I say next? This can't happen to you, too. You won't for long. Here's the first thing you need to know about getting big. I answered the question that I created in their head. I created the question, can this really happen for me? And then I said, I bet you're thinking, can this happen for me? Actually, I didn't answer the question. I affirmed the question. I demonstrated empathy. I joined the conversation in their mind. But this time it was a conversation I created by saying what I just said. This is the thing about hope. Listen very carefully. When you create hope, you got to make sure that there's this dance between hope and skepticism. Hope and skepticism. M. Hope and skepticism. If you create too much hope and you stay in the hope too long in your ad, you're going to arouse skepticism. They're going to go, wait a second. This is all sounding too good to be true. What about this, this and this? And come up with objections. And if you never address those objections, guess what? People will not buy from you. They'll abandon your ads. This is why I tell people, when you edit your copy, listen for anything that's confusing, unbelievable, boring, or awkward. Confusing. Unbelievable. Boring or awkward. Unbelievable means you stay too long in hope and you don't answer their yeah buts. Their objections. So when you're creating hope, and you should. As you write more copy, you'll start to intuitively feel this tension and release this rhythm in your writing where you'll be like, okay, I know I've created so much hope right here that I have to say, I know what you're thinking right now. You're thinking, all this sounds too good to be true. Or are you thinking that this can't happen to you? Right. I'm, um, answering the skeptical question happening in their head, because I know it's happening. I don't want to plant the idea in there. Some people are like, I don't want to be negative. I don't want to plant that idea in their head. Listen, sometimes. That's right. Sometimes it's not what you say that matters. It's what you get the person to imagine. And you don't want to plant an idea in their head. But if you create the skepticism by really pumping up their hope and their desire, you damn well better answer the question and not avoid it. Otherwise they will not trust you. So I created hope by talking about this story of where the guy is now. And then at just the right time, I said, you're thinking whether this can happen for you, aren't you? Well, you're not going to be thinking that for long when you hear what I'm about to say. Now listen to what I just did. I left them on a cliffhanger. I attached the curiosity to their hope. Curiosity. I'm doing breadcrumbing now, which we're going to talk about in the later podcast. But notice I created hope by creating an image in their mind of them experiencing the end result benefit. Right? The most important thing here, though, is the emotional context that we add by saying that the skinny guys are now making comments and asking questions. Right? This ties back to the opening sentence of the ad where I say, I once idolized the big guys at my gym. When you idolize somebody, you're giving that person validation, right? You're recognizing that a person is a higher status than you. And so if I perceive those big guys in the gym as having a higher status, what do you think is going to happen if I suddenly become one of those guys? Now, I have really appealed to my need for status, my need for validation, my need for confidence, my need to feel like I matter. When I say I once idolized the big guys in the gym, I affirmed that. And then later on, I said, now I'm the guy who everyone's coming to and marveling over his physique that is the emotional need for validation that I'm appealing to. That is the emotional frame. This is what you don't want to miss. Now, in my article on hope in copywriting, I've actually got two more examples where I talk about why I think I have actually two total examples where I talk about how to create hope in copywriting. And I do expand on the example we just talked about. But I want to close up here and just leave you with this. There's semantic hope and there is emotional hope. The emotional frame, your benefit, is more important than the statement about what your benefit actually is. If I say this is going to, a lot of people will say, well, you got to talk about the benefit and say, well, you know, you're going to lose ten pounds. Well, that's the semantic thing, right? That's what people are saying to themselves when they say, you know, if only I were 10 pounds lighter. If only I were at 10% body fat. If only my butt wasn't so big. If only my butt was bigger, right? That's not the emotional frame. That's not the emotional frame at all. The emotional frame is I want my lover to ask me to turn around because my ass looks so good, right? When I'm walking from the bed to the bathroom naked, I want them to woof, whistle at me, right? That's the experience they want. When I raise my arm above my head, I want the guys in the room to cringe and the women to stare because my biceps are just these rippling slabs of muscle right now. That's the way some guys see it. I'm not saying that that's true of how people look at people with biceps, but that's what they think, right? I want to create a synthetic experience in their mind that has them picturing themselves at the end result in such a way to where they feel the feelings associated with that picture, that feeling of validation, that feeling of excitement, that feeling of safety, that feeling of purpose. That's the emotional frame. Now, we're going to talk a lot more about this when we get to emotional copywriting. But that's how you do it. You create the synthetic experience, the imagination in their mind of them experiencing the benefit of your product or service. Now, we've talked about the first three techniques. Relevance gets their attention by joining the conversation happening in their mind on a semantic at an emotional level. Joining it. Curiosity is how we turn that attention into interest by dangling some mysterious unknown mechanism that's actually going to help them get to an end result. And then we turn that interest into desire through hope. Now we're going to add a couple more techniques. When we talk about technique number four is rapport. Technique number five is storytelling, hypnotic copywritings. After that, emotional copywriting, suspense, positioning and urgency. We're going to talk about all these techniques, but this is how you turn interest into desire. Go read my article. Go get my book. Experiment with this. Start using it. Read it over and over and over until this sinks down into the cracks and crevices of your subconscious mind. Listen to this podcast again. You only retain about 10% of what you hear. Listen to it over and over and over for the next 30 days. That's the only way to actually learn something. Believe me, you don't know this. You think you know it. Now that you've heard this podcast, you don't know it until it really gets into your psyche. Most importantly, start practicing this stuff. That's all we're going to have time for today. And in the next podcast, we're going to talk about how to continue turning interest into desire and start preparing to turn desire into action through the technique of rapport. Rapport is going to be really, really important one. I know you've probably heard, ah, uh, building rapport. I know about that. No, you don't. You haven't heard this, believe me. So share this podcast with somebody if you know that. Someone who's ready to hear this and who can benefit from it. If you enjoyed this podcast, please like and subscribe to this on the channel where you found it so that you can get all my daily mindset podcasts and weekly strategy podcasts. If you want to get my book, the Antifragile Sales System, go to the antifragilesalesystem.com and get it for just $1. And that's how you get started in implementing these strategies using AI. Okay, that's all we got time for today. Thank you so much for listening. I am Seth Cherpak, also known as the Red Neo, the world's premier expert on AI driven entrepreneurship. And I'll look forward to seeing you in our next podcast. Bye for now.