#58: Kirill Mishanin - How Blockchain is Changing the Business Landscape

Speaker A: Foreign. Hello and welcome. My name is Jason Baum. Today we are talking about the humans, all about the humans on the AI Time Journal podcast. So thank you for joining us today. Like I said, my name is Jason Baum. I'm the director of Community at Sauce Labs. Sauce Labs is the leader of automated testing industry. Believes, uh, that community, by continuous testing we can enable digital confidence and the knowledge that you're delivering the best possible user experience to your customers. Uh, it's all about humans for me, uh, like I said. So I'm a community builder. I am a people connector and conversationalist by trade. That's all I do. So on this All About Human series, we are going to dig deep and we are going to get to know the people behind the tech, behind the data, behind the AI. And thank, uh, you to AI Time Journal for giving us this opportunity. With me today is my guest, Kirill Mishonen. Kirill is the founder of infodriver Capital, an asset management, uh, fund and blockchain consulting company. He spent 10 years in sales and marketing in high tech companies. Uh, five years of business development experience in the blockchain industry. Is formerly of, uh, Lenovo, Hewlett Packard, Buffalo Technologies, uh, business development manager in the CIS region and has been involved in the crypto space since 2017. Runs technical partnerships with top IT companies like IBM, Oracle, Alibaba, Lenovo, uh, and from what I hear, participates in pretty much every summit that there is available in the space like World NFT and Defy Summit, World Blockchain Summit, Smart Summit, the Blockchain Real Estate Summit, Future Innovation Summit, Global Distributed Cloud, Dubai Blockchain Expo and World of Web3Summit. Uh, he is also, I'm assuming because of his participation in the Industry, a top 10 leading blockchain entrepreneur of 2021. And we are very lucky to have him here today. Kirill, thank you so much for coming on the AI Time Journal podcast.

Speaker B: Thank you for inviting me, guys. Pleasure to meet you.

Speaker A: Really appreciate, uh, having you here. Um, I kind of was, I don't know if you heard me saying, but I, I'm playing injured today. So I, I am, I have been battling like a cold that will not go away. But like Michael Jordan who played with the flu, I'm going to drop 45 on this one. So let's do it. Let's get right into it. Um, what do you say?

Speaker B: Yes, let's do it.

Speaker A: All right. So, uh, how have you seen the artificial intelligence, um, improve business development throughout your career?

Speaker B: Uh, so I faced with artificial intelligence around Two years ago once we decided to build application which merge uh centralized finance with decentralized finance and we understand that uh people who need some uh wallets, the people who need some uh data uh about uh uh seed investment rounds, about private a investment rounds uh they face with huge amount of data. Uh we decided to open application uh under our uh UK company so which merge whole data about blockchain uh merge data about uh existing ICOs, about existing raising capital app and gives a chance to uh investors and to fundraisers to meet each other in one application. That's why we invented uh uh uh artificial intelligence to have chance uh to answer pretty simple questions in an easy way automatically. My uh uh previous background as you mentioned was around 10 years uh of uh sales in uh IT market, around 5 years in blockchain. I was head of sales uh team in different companies and I face with problem. For example sometimes you your sales team, your salesforce uh responding to your customers the same amount of answers. So we have like spreadsheet how to answer these simple questions and they do it automatically like okay this is my question. We do it by phone call, we're doing by text message, whatever. So and those bunch of data is easy to put in one application and just responded automatically without people source because the core source is people and we try to switch cut out the source from the routine uh makes them happy of enjoying their life or wherever and integrate into our application.

Speaker A: So how does that work exactly?

Speaker B: Uh so uh it's like uh uh big data of uh ah Q and A, uh and the robot Just uh check your check uh your question for example uh, you want to raise capital and you just text in the chat. So um, what are the best funds who invest in I T industry or medical Medicare or whatever. And from the list of the funds who targeted that they are uh interested in medical or I T or I don't know lifestyle whatever way shown up in the list. It's like huge data of Q A and uh in simple chat, in simple fast uh response uh the customer from both sides if it's investor or um or uh fundraiser or startup, uh they just uh save the time on simple question over there. Or sometimes you have a silly question like what is Bitcoin? What is.

Speaker A: Oh that's not a silly question. Uh sometimes I, I have no idea.

Speaker B: At times yes and there are a huge amount of uh different uh points where you could Google it or whatever but you ask why you ask it in some uh chat or whatever in the application. It's always happened like uh, the easy way. So some data, we even connect directly to Internet. So. Ah, okay. There are a bunch of material. Check video number one explains what is Bitcoin, what is.

Speaker A: So it will like look it up. Almost like a Google search within the chat in a way.

Speaker B: Yes. It's for some questions uh, which we doesn't have in the data because we could not put uh, whole data in one application. It's possible.

Speaker A: I mean you're not an encyclopedia.

Speaker B: We should be like Google over.

Speaker A: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker B: And that's why it will be connected to of uh, uh, Google engine and some, some useful links uh, to search.

Speaker A: That's interesting. And like you said I could see that working because people by nature like I mean we're, we don't want to call into a call center. You know, we, if we're not getting the white glove service for everything. Right. Because we don't um. Yeah. I find myself going to the chat bots pretty frequently now and they've become really good at answering those, those questions. Um, especially in what you're talking about where it's non prompted. Uh, it sounds like they can type something in and they'll get an answer as opposed to some of those chatbots you type in and you're like, you get four canned responses to your question and it's like I didn't ask any of these questions. It sounds like it's actually responding to data that you have already pres.

Speaker B: Set.

Speaker A: Which is, which is really cool. Um, how else like how do you envision AI improving uh, business development in the future? So maybe not what it's done to date, but going forward.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Um, actually I'm recently was on the event in Los uh Angeles in Hollywood. It was uh, uh, film uh summit and they invited uh, Sophia, the first artificial robot. So with whom you could uh, talk and she naturally answered the question, etc. Etc. But actually her uh, data or her intellect is connected to database and if she answers something they already prepare this answer and they just click like this is the question, this is answer click and her voice comes out. This is not actual uh, artificial intelligence. It's uh, it's like uh, it's like Q A.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: It uh, initially it calls artificial intelligence because it's like first step in the future development. Uh, but actual artificial intelligence should be like huge uh data center. It's uh, this is what uh, IBM doing. They just uh, build the data, uh, and they do research on the data. This is what Uber doing. They research a huge amount of data and they more Data company than uh trans logistic company. Right? Because they know how much you spend, where you go, what you purchase, what you prefer to eat. And they could sell those data to any uh, requesters from government or wherever. So the artificial intelligence in future is just uh, easy tool to easy connection of data. The easiest. For example as in any uh, fantastic movies, you go to the fridge, they scan your body and they say to you that today you doesn't need to, you need to drink more water and less uh holistarian food. So and more you work with data, the more any person could have connection to data the more is uh useful uh for um, for society, the global society because you don't need to produce a huge amount of food if you, if you understand that those food will be spoiled. You doesn't need to produce a huge amount of brands if you understand that nobody will uh there is no secondary market, there is no first market or whatever. So you just reorganize it globally. So some countries need more food, you bring it there. Some countries need more IT technology, you bring the, who owns the data, they own the entire uh ecosystem of entire business etc.

Speaker A: Etc.

Speaker B: That's why our company calls info Driver. We try, we try to drive information.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's really interesting. Uh, I also liked bringing uh up Sophia because that's interesting to me. So Sophia doesn't like remember your name and then answer with something unique. You know when you give it information doesn't use that information back does it? It's just going back to the database like you said with canned responses.

Speaker B: Uh actually, actually it's possible but she need to be connected with huge data. It means once she unplugged um from the data like it goes to confidence. You could not put uh server or 5G Internet to, to the hosting room because uh, they even doesn't have connection with simple mobile Internet or whatever. This is the problem. Once every uh, once and and the business uh uh goes to uh global network high speed Internet. Uh uh that's why 5G. Once you integrated 5G, those Safi, even those Safiyeh, she could connect it not to the guy who um plug some data to to to her uh answers but she could connect to global network and merge needed questions and she could explain from her uh ideas uh on and she could do machine learning. She could do uh self uh self learning. This is what artificial intelligence, right. Opportunity based on data to create extra data.

Speaker A: Yeah, it's, it's so I'm, I'm scared but I'm not as Scared maybe as I was before.

Speaker B: No, no problem. Around uh, 40% of population doesn't even have connection to Internet.

Speaker A: Right, Right. Yeah. Isn't that a fascinating number? It's, it's surprising every time I hear uh. So throughout your career, you know, you mentioned the five years of uh, experience in blockchain and 10 years uh, with high tech companies. Uh, what would you say is the significant similarities and differences uh, between them?

Speaker B: Between what? IT companies and blockchain.

Speaker A: Yeah, IT and blockchain.

Speaker B: Okay. So all my career, like 10 years, I I sell some IT stuff. It could be notebook software, uh, to end customers or enterprises. So. And once I understand uh, that there is new technology appeared on the market. It was in 2017 the boom of blockchain growing, uh, ICOs, financing, etc. Uh, uh, it gave a huge opportunity for any guy to raise capital easier. So just, just imagine some students with zero budget. There is 1, 2, $3 million capital from one one pager and one website. And it was the reality of those days. So and technically blockchain is just extra layer of technology. So everybody gives, it's a huge uh, bubble effect. Like blockchain is save your life or blockchain is future. It's, it's. But it's originally it's extra layer of technology. So web one zero, web two zero, web three zero. Uh, but those technology gives you opportunity to trust people. Because blockchain appears because of people do not trust each other. I doesn't know you how I will transfer your money for, for your resources. It if it will be on a scroll and connected to blockchain. Everybody could prove that I send you money, you collect those money once you gave me something real escrow. Uh, and blockchain gives an opportunity to do easy finance fundraising. Uh, it gives a huge capital to new markets. Who doesn't even have Visa, MasterCard.

Speaker A: I mean it's created communities.

Speaker B: Communities. Uh, and uh, of course it creates uh, a huge amount of bubble.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: So ICOs with fake uh, uh, projects, uh, NFT with picture of and money laundry problems. Uh, but each new technologies uh, at ever beginning uh connect a lot of people. They could be good, they could uh, be bad. But this is what uh drives technology itself. Just imagine once they're uh, first WI fi appeared there was a bubble of dot com. So everybody um, purchased just names like blah blah blah, website.com and they could sell it for $1 million.

Speaker A: Yeah, it was the Wild West.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes. Because the name was like finance.com, all right, invest.com or whatever. Uh and everybody run it strange way or proper way. The same happening right now with blockchain, with crypto, with nft. But the more you build ecosystem the more people involved less not good project appeared a community drive the pure technology of it.

Speaker A: Uh we mentioned earlier that you are a top 10 leading blockchain entrepreneur. Uh so what concepts and ideas uh from those experiences uh within the blockchain industry have you taken um with you or carried with you while you become one of the leading entrepreneurs?

Speaker B: Um actually it was very funny m uh days when those guys from uh, from the media acquire me as a top 10 leading entrepreneurs. The reason why I don't know actually they explained me that I shown up in all conference.

Speaker A: Sure do.

Speaker B: Yes sure. Uh uh pick up those guys because he he doing research, he doing a pitch in all entire conference uh in the in the world. So I was in the US market and was UAE in Europe, in Ukraine and some other region. So I spoke a lot about, about technology itself. I do not asking anything fundraising or whatever. I just uh really believe in technology. So blockchain it's just layer of technology which gives you a trust. That's it.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So on top of it the core use cases of blockchain is finance. It's um crypto itself. It could be Bitcoin, Ethereum and some other coins. Uh the rest technology like storing data, uh, like building uh face uh id with blockchain, storing data etc. Those use cases are not useful on the market right now. For example I was part of IBM Blockchain Labs uh uh meetup together with top banks like bank of America, uh JP Morgan, Microsoft, IBM etc. And they to try to create uh the logic of digital crypto dollar uh so and the reason why government doesn't want to involve their unique currency based on blockchain because after it they could not change it. After it all transaction will be on the loop. If I know your wallet I could track your transaction for all your entire life. Wow. Wow.

Speaker A: That's.

Speaker B: And for example if I pay uh to to some illegal uh stuff I couldn't do it because it some days will. It will trace easily the second problem of for example supply chain. Um I was uh part of um supply chain development for uh uh Oracle blockchain ecosystem for Amazon. They just have some uh layers to connect blockchain into the supply chain of existing customers. And the problem was that for example um, we try to build the supply chain for. For uh truck company. So the problem of truck company, uh the trucks with, with the fridges, they, they travel and they shipped the goods around the Europe and each Europe zone have its own uh, temperature uh uh requirement. So in this region it should be uh, the fridge should be minus, in this region it should be plus etc. Etc. And it's really hard to manage uh, if it's failure of the fridge company, the logistic company because at the end the shipment with your goods fail because temperature goes down or goes up and your good is not healthy or spoiled or whatever. And they decided to put data uh on blockchain. So and the problem was that once the driver opened the fridge and closed the fridge or whatever, he could put any data uh, from his own and it will be in blockchain.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: The problem of storing data on blockchain because people put in data on blockchain. This is the key problem. Not robot, not automatical. Even after medical system. For example there was a solution. Uh the oil company which shipped oil in huge uh tankers. Uh they measure the oil, how much oil they uh, supported and how much left. And they could put data on blockchain automatically because there are a lot of sensors. But problem is that some small uh companies uh, together with those companies they just connect extra uh sensor inside the uh, inside the uh oil tank and they just change the data. They shows that they have more fuel as it should be or less fuel as it should be. And those data goes to blockchain.

Speaker A: It's, it's kind of like my, my daughter would say they're cheating. Uh, or like if you wear your Apple watch and you and you turn on your fitness app even though you're sitting on the couch, it's gonna count something.

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. That's why the core um, the core uh use cases of blockchain it's finance. Ah because those here you could not cheating. If you pay $1 to one guy you see the transaction, you couldn't change the transaction. You could not cancel those transactions done.

Speaker A: Right. So trans transactions are very, are relatively simple.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: So regarding for. For NFTs, the whole topic of all conferences etc. Etc. How I could buy one picture for $1,000,000 one JPEG file which stored on blockchain. They the use cases uh, they exist on the market but most of them right now it's like bubble to make money off nothing or money laundering the money laundry scheme is pretty simple. M. Somebody bought my picture for $1 million. I have my $1 million of free cash. And I could explain that this is NFT sold out. So but everybody Understands. So.

Speaker A: So all you cartels listening, is that how they do it now is are they going through NFTs to wash their money?

Speaker B: Yes, it's easier system.

Speaker A: Wow.

Speaker B: But to wash money, it's easy in cash.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: That's why it doesn't, doesn't need to fight with technology. Uh, the true use cases of nft it's gaming.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: For example, you professional gamer, you play counter strike. You have some cool weapons, rifles, uh, uh, pistols or whatever. And some days you decided to quit the business. You, you become elder or whatever and you want to sell your uh, items to some, some, some other guys. Right now it's, it's more than impossible because those items they consist uh, in one game without opportunity to withdraw it out and sell to another. If those games uh, connect to the NFT and each item will be a non fundable token nft. So it means you could sold out your refill to another guy. It's automatically withdraw from the game to another uh, user and that's it.

Speaker A: Yeah. You actually had a tangible, it became tangible by doing that.

Speaker B: Exactly.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: And those cases they change the technology, they change the entire business. For example the uh, people rights like movie producers, um, musical producers. So um. There are a lot of pirates who copy their item etc. Etc. Once you connect it on NFT. So your, your song is unique and you are the owner of this song and those NFT uh shows that this is your item and if it's some copy you could copy it and you need to pay automatically some uh, copyrights or whatever. It's also use cases or, or charity for example, uh, just, just believe uh uh. If charity organization will connect to the blockchain and they will sold some NFT. For example you sold NFT for 100 and you send that automatically 50% goes to charity. So once you sold those picture it's automatically 50% cut it out and goes to another wallet. And it should be like charity organization, Official Wallet.

Speaker A: Mhm.

Speaker B: Also use cases.

Speaker A: You know, as you're, as you're talking. I'm thinking of another one. Um. Perhaps maybe I'm wrong but um. I've heard the argument a lot or criticism from people who might not be uh in the tech industry themselves. They're, they're, you know, they're just hearing the news and they're hearing about the Metaverse for example very Hot Topic and they're hearing about people purchasing real estate in the metaverse or they're hearing them like talking about clothing. Um, people are purchasing actual clothing for their avatar and they're going to like I don't know who's like Nordstrom's in the Metaverse and purchasing actually using money to buy clothes for their avatar and their minds are blown because they can't understand why someone would do that. They can't understand why someone would purchase actual real estate within Metaverse uh for their avatars to live or for commerce or whatever. Uh, it may be. Um, but there is a model for this. It's existed for a while. It's in the gaming industry. Uh even some simple games like you named a very popular game for hardcore gamers. I'll even throw. Throw out one for non Honkor like I used to game but who has. I, I can't do that anymore. I, I'm a parent and I don't. I just like literally have no time in my life unfortunately to game. So I play like sports games for fun because they're quick and easy. But even in the latest versions of like NBA 2k they have a world where you're my player can go. You can purchase clothes for them from the NBA store. You can purchase you know uh, cool moves for them to do. Like if there is a whole commerce side to it that has existed now for a while. So this is, it's already there. The case study, the use cases are there and it makes total sense.

Speaker B: Yes but the key idea of this metaverse etc.

Speaker A: Etc.

Speaker B: Um, you need to split the understanding of technology for example to buy items inside game those was exist like long time ago. You know you could buy items, you could buy avatar, you could go to Microsoft.

Speaker A: Uh but it only existed in the game.

Speaker B: Yeah. Yes, yeah, existed as a technology. But once you add extra layer as a blockchain together with nft you not just purchase close into Metaverse, you could withdraw it close out. For example you withdraw your clothes from Counter Strike and put the clothes into um. Um. Unreal or whatever game Doom Doom game or whatever. Just, just, just imagine how ah. How market is huge.

Speaker A: It creates the trade market. There's a withdrawal, there's trades, there's.

Speaker B: Yes. It uh. Create a huge marketplace.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: Items uh for secondary market and even the uh game owner he could connect retainers inside each deal which happened. Uh if the item itself connected to the uh gamer's owner uh wallet. It means each time when you sold out your item some amount, small amount goes to the game owner.

Speaker A: Interesting. Really interesting.

Speaker B: And regarding Metaverse, the ideal scenario of Metaverse, it's. It's like in those movie where all people lives and in a digital world they open their digital uh, um, digital uh, equipment and they buy, sell whatever something in digital. But through Metaverse it's even simpler. Um, it's connection of huge amount of big data. It means that you as a guy you could do something. For example, um, you collect energy from your body and you connect some sensors and those energy comes to hit your house. This is metaverse, uh, IoT technology together. Uh, it's also Metaverse because meta, it's huge amount of data, right? Yeah, I mean right now it's like uh, 1.0 version because it's just somewhere. Once you buy uh, property on Metaverse, it just. You buy some pixels on the picture and that's it. Or some house in 3D version, uh, in some 3D uh 3D game. Uh, once you merge it with real estate on legal basis, once your NFT gives you a right to purchase this cow sufficiently, go to the uh, legal team, you uh, go to attorney and show you picture. And he says yes, okay, but now it's not working this way. Uh, not any legal company could improve your NFT as a uh, owner uh of those uh assets.

Speaker A: They're not going to give you a mortgage.

Speaker B: Yes, yes. The problem is that government should, should uh be connected to those ideas. So it should be the uh, equal rights to those guys. Because for example I sell you my property for NFT. You have this nice good looking 3D picture of my house. And in parallel I have my documents on my end and tomorrow I sell this house to another guy. You go to the court and you say I have NFT of this house. You're lucky. You should live in your digital house.

Speaker A: Nice picture is what

Speaker B: the reality. But so so far so good. Everything is, goes to this direction. Then some days uh, that's why we merge uh, centralized finance CFI with decentralized DeFi. We uh, would like to build ecosystem where for example you as investor you send physical money, pounds, euros, dollars, whatever. And according to the licensing and processing uh, and some authorized custodial services they change it into real uh, into digital currency and you buy some shares in some companies, startups or wherever and vice versa. Uh once you do exit, you transfer those digital currency into dollars and you go to tax department. You show the whole process, you pay taxes and you fix uh, your, your income, your, your profit.

Speaker A: How do you see that improving the industry?

Speaker B: Uh, there are huge steps in currently so uh, everything what I mentioned, it's already exist on, on the market. You just need to have some expertise and understanding how you need merge digital world with real world. If no merge, you will live in digital whatever. Uh, but you do not connect into very real assets.

Speaker A: Yes, that, it's, that, it's that merger that's, that's huge. Uh, I wish we had more time. Uh, I feel like we could, we could talk for a long time. This is fascinating stuff. I really appreciate you coming on. Uh, before we wrap up though. Look, you're, you're influential. You're a top team, top 10 blockchain entrepreneur. Uh, what advice could you give to other people who are curious yet hesitant to join the industry?

Speaker B: M. First advice, do not give an advice. Yes. Because think your own, uh, like uh, investors perspective. If you have your first money, spend on your, on yourself. If you have your second money, uh, spend on your education, on your travel, on your sport, wherever. Uh, if you had third money, invest in technology in projects. Who technology oriented. Who really gives a value. Who really gives a. Use cases not money of making money because some days you will lose everything. And uh, try to connect to digital world with simple steps. Create your wallet, try to do transaction. Try to connect your sales team on digital salary or whatever. Try to open digital company. It's, it's, it's already exists on the market. Pay taxes in digital, open a mortgage in digital. It's all already exist on the market.

Speaker A: I pay enough taxes, I don't want to pay anymore.

Speaker B: No, no, no. Reduce cost of the taxes.

Speaker A: Yeah, no, I'm kidding. No kidding. I really appreciate. I was surprised you didn't say attend, uh, events, uh, industry events. I, I was surprised to hear you not say that, uh, as from someone who attends literally all of the uh, industry events. Well, uh, Kirill, I really appreciate you coming on. I hope you had a good time. Uh, I did. Uh, it's fascinating. I really appreciate it.

Speaker B: Yes, thank you for inviting me and see you in digital world.

Speaker A: Yeah, you got it. I'll be there. And thanks so much for joining us, uh, to the listeners, uh, for this All About Human series of AI Time Journal podcasts. I love doing these. I hope you love listening to them. I'm Jason Baum. Follow me at Jason Ebaum1 on Twitter or connect with me on LinkedIn @Jason Ebaum. Until next time, stay safe, stay healthy, and most of all, stay human. Live long and prosper.

Speaker B: See you guys.