69 | Cam Trew on Building Kleo to $1M ARR

Hello, and welcome back to the AI Marketer's Playbook, where we cover actionable frameworks to help you leverage AI and marketing strategies in your business. I'm Audrey Chia, your host, and today I have with me a very special guest, Cam Trew. Now, Cam started coding at the age of 13, building private servers for the game RuneScape. That early curiosity then led him to pursue computer science in Manchester and eventually working as a software engineer.

By the age of 26, Cam had what many people would consider a dream setup, right? A remote engineering job in a high-rise apartment overlooking London. But instead of going down that path, he made an amazing and bold decision to start his own company. And today, Cam is the co-founder of two AI companies, Kleo, a LinkedIn content platform that went from zero to 1 million ARR in just five months, and Mentions, an AI platform that tracks how brands appear in LLM responses.

So Cam, there is so much to unpack. I am very excited to have you on the show. Yes. Hello, and thank you for having me.

I look forward to our chat. Awesome. So Cam, let's start off with, uh, your journey, right? 'Cause I think many listeners relate to this.

A lot of people who work in tech and marketing might have an idea of starting something, but very few actually take that bold leap. So tell us more about that decision, right? What made you decide to say, "Hey, you know what? I'm just gonna go all in and build something else."

Yeah, absolutely. I think it was a process that happened over a, a few years. So what was happening was, I was working my normal job. I was finishing work, I was reading books, I was doing courses, I was working on side projects.

I was doing everything I could to become the best software engineer that I could become. And what that led was me changing jobs every year. So I would be hopping from job to job to g- taking more money, more money. And then I finally, you know, landed at this job that I'd wanted, huge corporate American Fortune 500 company.

Um, had all the money that I wanted to ha- to have the things I wanted, and I was like, "Oh, wait. So now I've got to put in all this work after work, and it's gonna take me a whole year to maybe get to that next stage." And I was just like, the second I landed that job, I actually felt, like, awful. I was like, like, like I'd finish work and I'd be like, "Well, what am I meant to do now?"

'Cause there's no point in me practicing, 'cause it was all about data structures and algorithms and, and practicing those. And then I was just like, well, the only thing I can do to consistently get that feeling- is to have my own business. That's the only way where one month I can get better, the next month, two weeks later, I can get better. Like, I can get that progression at random intervals just by, um, having my own business.

And it was more of a happiness thing. It, it's not, it's not actually about the money, it was more just, like, the fulfillment side and, and feeling good. So I was just like, "Do you know what? I, I need to, um, I need to figure something out."

So you can imagine the, uh, the shock on my parents' face when I'd come back, uh, for Christmas and sort of said to them, "Oh, by the way, I, um, I want to do this thing, you know. I want, I want to quit, and I want to start doing it." And to be fair, they were very supportive. They were just like, "Go for it.

You can always, you can always get another job." Um, so that, that was kind of lucky. And I started contacting all the different people I knew, everyone I'd worked with before, everyone. And then there, there was one person who was looking to start a business.

Um, and I sort of came on with that. Started doing... And th- that's not Kleo, that's something else. And then landed another contracting role again.

So I was like, "Okay, I've got a bit of money coming in, and I've got a freedom." Like, I'm now pushing towards, you know, starting an agency and going that route. So I was like, "Okay, I'm, I'm sorted now. Let's, uh, leave the country."

So I, I'd booked my flight away. I had booked flights. I'd booked, um, accommodation. I'd basically had everything sorted, and I was like, "Right, cool."

And, uh, I was at my first location and then I got a phone call, um, and Jake was like, "Yo, do you wanna come and start this thing called Kleo?" And I'm like, I've just got all the money back up from signing all these contracts. I've just paid for all these different things. And I'm like...

'Cause th- this has taCam, like, four months, right? It, it wasn't an over- It took months to finally get to the point where I could leave the UK. I had the clients. One week after leaving and then it was like, "Do you wanna drop everything that you've got going now a- and do it?"

And I was just like... I think it took me all of about 12 hours to decide. I was just like, "Do you know what? Let, let's just do it."

And, um, yeah, the - we got a flight over to Montreal, stayed in a house with everyone, um, like worked together. Obviously, first of all, like understanding what needed, what it was. I was like a complete LinkedIn newbie, right? I, I had no idea about LinkedIn.

Like, I'd, I'd gone to school with Jake, so I'd known him, we've known each other for like 10, 15 years. Um, and I know he's been posting on LinkedIn, right? So I, I knew, like, this thing that people did, this platform. Um, and luckily, I ended up getting, like, probably, like, the- I, I always say to everyone, "My, I must be top 10 best LinkedIn boot camp of all time."

'Cause I had Jake Ward and Lara Costa both personally helping me to understand LinkedIn. All hours of the day they would help me to then write, learn how to create Kleo, 'cause c- that, that's the, the thing with Kleo is that it's all the knowledge that they both have baked into r- actually writing the content. So I, by default, me building it, I had to understand how it worked. So built that, built that, built that, and then they were like, "You built this tool.

Like, why aren't you posting?" And I was like, "I don't know. I pro- I probably should, shouldn't I?" Um, and then again, just started getting a, a bit of, again, a bit of help using Kleo.

Every single one of my posts is written with Kleo, and now I get roughly a million impressions a month now. Um, and I've only been doing it for, like, four, five months. Uh, at, like, 19,000 followers now. So yeah, I mean, I've thrown a lot of information at you, but I hope that gives you a little bit of background as to, as to where we are.

Yeah. And thanks for sharing that, Cam. I think sometimes when life just gives you opportunities, you just have to say yes and then see what happens after that. That sounds a bit like your journey.

But tell us more about that transition, right, from, like, a full-time job to being a startup co-founder. What was the biggest change for you? I mean, w- 100%, like, the, the number of hours you work. So I used to work, say, eight, nine hours at my job, and then do two to three hours every day in the evening.

So sort of like, you know, mm, 10, 12 hours. But then I've gone and liv- moved in with all of these other guys who are all entrepreneurs, and it's like now we're actually working more like 16 hours a day, um, every day, seven days a week. It is just, like, nonstop and it, you know... I think social media can give an image where you're like, oh, you're traveling around the world doing all these things.

But it's like- Yes ni- 99% of the time, uh, we're sat in a, a hotel room, um, just working all hours of the day. So that was definitely the, the number one change. I think it's very funny, right? A lot of people think that, you know, you start your own business for freedom.

But they don't realize that freedom only comes after your business has been launched or stable or at least a bit more successful. The early stages, just grind, hustle, and pure determination. Um, right, Cam? Yeah, 100%.

I mean, I'm sure if you look closely, I don't know how good the camera is, but I've probably still got some bags under my eyes where- I don't really get to sleep that much. But you know what? That's the whole journey, and I think that's also what makes it so fulfilling. So Cam, let's talk a bit about your early days on LinkedIn.

I know a lot of our listeners, they think LinkedIn is, you know- Interesting. Some people think it's the dinosaur of all social media, right? So let's go back to the moment where you personally first started on this platform. What were some things that you were surprised by?

Yeah, so I think that there's, there's definitely different rules compared to X, compared to Instagram, compared to any of these other platforms. It has its own style. There is definitely, like, these unknown, unmentioned barriers of content. Like, you- if you want it to perform well, you've got to stay within these walls.

Um, but I, I think it's probably the, the, the platform with the most opportunity. And the reason is, is that, you know, most people, the business, the service, whatever they're selling, is probably gonna be, like, one, two, three, like, a high-ticket offer, right? And where is it most like? Like, do you think that someone willing to spend $5,000 per month is on X, um, where everyone's, like, bashing each other?

Or do you think it's gonna be on LinkedIn where people are execs, CMOs, CEOs, all of these high-level positions? Um, and I, and I literally had been spending time with people who had built multiple businesses, all purely in- inbound, organic growth just from LinkedIn. So I, I knew, like, this LinkedIn thing, it, like, it, it works. Yes.

I think even for me, like, when I first started my business, I had no leads. I was going to networking events, going on Fiverr and Upwork, figuring out, "How do I look for my next lead?" And that also got me on day zero of my LinkedIn journey. My leads are also all pure inbound.

I am so glad I don't have to spend on ads to get leads. Um, if you are a marketer or if you know- if you are running ads, you would know that right now the cost per lead is so expensive. Um, so of course, building out your organic presence is very important. So Cam, perhaps for someone who is trying to work on LinkedIn right now, they might find it challenging because the algorithm seems to change quite some, right?

So from your perspective, right, do you have any perhaps insights on what seems to be working a bit better on LinkedIn right now, and how do you tackle the changing algorithm? Yes. So I, I've had, uh, a few posts sort of hit, you know, close to, like, 400,000 impressions, and typically what I've seen is some kind of contrarian belief. Like, if you...

I think at the same time that there's these walls If you just say what everyone else thinks and don't really give like a truly valuable insight or something that's different, something that people find interesting, you will just blend in. Um, I've also noticed that you have to be a little, a little bit out there with the hook. Like you have to make people stop and go, "Wait, what?" And then use the image as part of the hook.

So it's not just... The hook is also the image. So you want to join them together so that people open it. And then I, I'm not a copywriting expert, but like these, these are the things that I've, I've, I've learned, right?

And just making sure that then you sort of make the person want to read the next, but then you have to make sure that you actually deliver from the hook. So I think it's okay to hook people in, but if they get to the end and they're annoyed because they feel like they've been tricked, that doesn't work either. They have to get to the end and feel like, "Okay, I was hooked in, but like, that was interesting," or something like that. So yeah, and, and definitely like the topic and the idea is 100% the most important thing of any post.

Definitely. I think what I've also noticed is it's getting harder and harder to get people's attention. So if your hook sounds, uh, too generic, right, you would see your entire post flop. Or perhaps if your hook is too niche, you might also realize that it doesn't go, um, the, the post doesn't perform as well because it's too specific.

So Cam, maybe on the point of like algorithmic changes, right? On Kleo's end, how do you guys track the changes, if you do, or what do you typically advise clients on? Yeah. So I think some of, some of our advice is still, you know, go broad.

I still think a lot of it's the topic, and just like you say, if you use some kind of acronym like BT3 wh- whatever, like something that people don't understand, then they will struggle. Uh, we've put a lot of time and effort into making sure our hooks typically follow like more proven formulas that we know work. You know, 2025 this, 2027 that. Those different things can really help.

And then we typically use something called like a, a swipe file. And what that is, is every day we drop a new viral post that we've seen and want to share with others, and that other people can like use as inspiration and, and use like that. So I think probably the way that we're tackling the algorithm changes is by showing you posts that are performing right now. You know what's performing right now, and maybe you can, you know, try and join that in.

Yes. I think also being, um, current, right, uh, figuring out what is trending, but also not losing your own positioning. 'Cause if you're always chasing the latest trend, you would realize that people don't really know what they should- Look to you for. Um, and I think that balance is extremely important.

So going back, I think, to building Kleo from your zero to 1 million AR in five months. Kev, that is amazing. What do you think helped the team get such massive success in a short amount of time? I mean, there's, there's a few things to it, right?

So number one, there was Kleo 1.0, which was very successful. Uh, it was a free tool that had been out there for one to two years, and it had built up a huge audience. I think there was 80,000 users.

And by default, uh, we had all of the, the emails of these people who had, had the, had the Kleo 1.0. And then there was some, you know, uh, legal troubles with, with LinkedIn and the app had to get closed. So, uh, there had to be like a, a pivot into a new app.

So that's one section where we had, um, a large amount of emails from a, an already famous and well-known product on the platform. Number two, we have Lara Costa, who is huge on LinkedIn. She, she has, um, absolutely killed it, and all of her followers also want to grow on LinkedIn. And then we have Jake, who is also large on the platform.

His is SEO, but he still has that knowledge of obviously having built, you know, Kleo 1.0 and then the product. So right there, you already had the distribution. And when the actual, like, V1 got launched, uh, the V1- Kleo 2.

0 V1, we already had these people wanting to join, and we offered it to everybody at, like, a, a discounted rate. And I think they closed in, like, four days or something like that. Wow. Um, and then we're like, "All right.

Back to, back to the basics. Let's fix all the bugs. Do the next one." $79, boom, came out.

Um, so I, I think typical distribution, and I think that this sort of ties into if I was to start a business from tomorrow, everything from scratch, everything that I've learned from these guys, which have m- many multiple successful businesses, I would, number one, probably look at building the email list because that was what we used to sell. Almost all of the sales were from email. They weren't direct from social media. Interesting.

To, to your point, right, I also think that LinkedIn sometimes doesn't show the same, uh, creator to a person too many times. So then having them as your captured audience or captured leads is important. So you talked about distribution as one thing. Is there another factor that you think, uh, w- perhaps was there a product market fit that you found?

What was it that got people to stick on and say, "Hey, I'm interested to waitlist, try and be one of the early adopters of Kleo"? Yeah. So I think it was... So number one, we, we now have the emails, so now we can start sending them information and get in contact.

The next thing was about having, you know, FOMO and offering out a limited number of seats at a, a discounted rate that gets locked in forever, and it's still the cheapest it's ever been for them. And then what that did was that led to, you know, obviously people wanting to get in, people excited about the product, and people buying. We sold out, and w- I think what we did, which a lot of other companies wouldn't have done, is when those seats ran out, we did not let anybody else in.

We did not let anybody else buy after they were sold. People begging us, and it would've been so easy. Like, we... Don't get me wrong, like we were, we were tempted.

Like, oh, like it's... But we're like, "No, this is the right thing to do is to not let anybody else buy." Um, and what we did was we then created another sublist, and that sublist was people who wanted to be notified early when the next one came out. So we then gave them early access through email to say, "Look, we've given you 48 hours.

Here's your opportunity to lock in at this price, which is now going to be the next best price." And then once again, once that sold out, we then, um, waited. Uh, again, did not let anybody else in until we got to the January launch, and at that point it was all still invite only. People couldn't go to our website and buy.

The only thing they could do is go to our website and join the waitlist. So people are all like, I'm seeing o- people and us doing videos and putting things out there, and they're like, "Well, how do I access it?" It's like, "Well, you can't." And they're like- Mm "Well, I want it."

Um, and then the launch came out, and what we did was a webinar. So Lara hopped on the webinar and, um, basically once again offered everyone like a, an insane deal. Um, it was the annual only deal, so they had to pay for a full year of Kleo up front for a massively discounted rate. Um- And they all sold out as well.

Um, so yeah, so we're, we're currently working on Kleo 3.0. I don't, I don't want to go into, to detail on that 'cause it's sort of something we're trying to keep internally. But w- all I can say is that it's something that nobody else is doing, none of the other guys are doing, and it's, like, the, the latest way of, of doing AI.

Um- Wow, that sounds super exciting. What I, I think appreciated from what you've shared is the scarcity play, but the scarcity play that's also genuine, right? A lot of people say, uh, limited slots, final slots, last chance, then they release it again, and then it actually pre- diminishes the value of that product. But I think what you guys did really smart and, like, very strategic is make sure you guys are kept.

And I think, uh, you know, creating that FOMO effect, right? Was that what you were going for? Yeah. Yeah, of course.

Of course. Um, but it is sort of twofold, right? Because as we bring out new features, we're using other tools, so our profit margins do go down 'cause we use loads of different tools, right? 'Cause we wanna make Kleo as good as possible.

So they are actually genuinely getting... Well, obviously, well, I'm biased, right? But they, they got, like, a really good deal. Mm.

So it is twofold. It's, it's, number one, FOMO, because it's like there's a limited number of spots, but it is actually a good deal, and they are actually limited. So I think you, you have to have that confidence of what you're selling as well. You don't- Yes you don't wanna be, like, lying to people because I think it, it shows through.

Yes. I'm interested to also find out, right, so there are many other LinkedIn AI tools out there in the marketplace. How does Kleo set itself apart, whether it's from a product point of view or a marketing point of view? 100%.

So we get that a lot. So we find that Kleo ha- Again, e- everything I'm saying, everyone's gonna be like, "Obviously he's gonna say that 'cause it's his product." But truly, from the bottom of my heart, like, our output is so much better than other people's. And what you have is you have all of these other tools is they're built by people who think they know what's good on LinkedIn, who think they know what's...

Like, like I thought, what I thought was good as a software engineer, I, I think this is good, and they would be like, "No, it's awful." I'm like, "Well, why is it awful?" So I think that by actually having built the product with people who truly understand the platform, that's what separates us, and definitely our, the output is the, is the key one. Definitely.

I think this is something that I like to say, um, your product should speak for itself. So if, I guess, you guys are listening and you are not already on Kleo's wait list, you might wanna do that so that when it launches, you can test it. So Cam, maybe for our listeners, could you just show us a demo of what Kleo is, Kleo 2.0 is currently capable of, um, and some cool features that you personally love?

Sure. Let's do screen. Okay. So welcome to Kleo.

Um, as you can see, we, we, we keep it nice and simple. Um, so I'm just gonna go to some of the posts so you can... If anyone is like, "Does he write it?" You can- -literally see that all of my posts are, are here, all these viral ones.

Um, and then what we have - So this is like the post. We like to use a Kanban style because typically what we found is that, um, Jake and Lara like to use, you know, the Kanban style of managing their workload, where they want to be able to, to drag and drop their posts and understand and organize it like they do in a team. So our goal is always to make sure that people don't need to leave the platform. Yeah.

Um, so here, what we have now is we have Kleo Swipes. And whKleoleo Swipes is we, we have a, an extension which lets people just copy posts, and it comes into here. So you have my swipes. Mine's probably got loads of random stuff because I'm obviously always...

My account is like a testing account 'cause I'm always testing things in production and stuff, so there's probably loads of random stuff. Um, so people are like, "Oh," like, "this is really cool." Like this is, this is awesome. Like I, I love this.

Um, it's really g- I, I finally made my own Kleo swipes, uh, via the, our marketing team. That was like a huge moment. Was like, "I finally made it." Uh, so this is where people are like, "Oh," like, "this is what's actually working, what we think good."

And this is handpicked by Jake and Lara, um, to show to people. And then we have like viral templates and things like this, um, that people can use. We also have like knowledge base, so if people see a YouTube video, they see a blog post, they see anything where they really like the information, they can actually use that to write a post, and it will actually like follow the information exactly. Not...

'cause when it... Y- this, like use any of those LLMs like ChatGPT, Claude, it'll just start putting M dashes everywhere. You'll say, "Follow that information." It'll s- write a post, and then you're like, "But it, where does it say it in that?"

And it's like, "Oh no, sorry, you're absolutely right. It's not there." And it's like, like what are you on about? Um, and then we have like writing style Yeah So what this is, is so when I'm writing like a post about like a story, I'll go with Lara, 'cause I think Lara's storytelling is second to none.

Mm-hmm. But then when I'm doing more of like an educational post, I, I personally, r- these are all my opinions. I think Jake's is like really, really good. So you can like choose depending on who you...

what kind of post you're doing, whether you want to actually do it. Um, and then what you have here, as you work with Kleo, as you write posts- Mm-hmm it will save memories based on the writing style that you do. So over time it will sound more and more like you. Um, so these are all my writing style.

I don't know if anyone's interested in my writing style, but, uh- So I'm curious to know, right, in this section for writing style, so let's say Audrey has my own writing style. Can I upload my own writing style? Is that how it works? So you can provide your LinkedIn URL, and it will sort of analyze how you like to write and just, you know, have, create the preferences and just, yeah, based on that.

And then what we'll also do is pick your number one post to be from, um, your, your number one post at the time. So I, I did it ages ago. This was when I... This was my number one post, and then you can select that as your own style.

Got it. And it's just, it's more just like making it sound more you, right? Yes. So the reason we added the writing examples is because...

So this is something we've definitely been battling, right? Yes. So we want it to sound like the person, but what if the person doesn't sound good? Like the...

Yeah. Uh- Um- I see. I know what you mean. Yes.

And it, it's definitely a battle 'cause some people, they'll, they'll message us in support and they're like, "Oh, like I don't like it." But then we'll like look at the post that Kleo's generated, and then look at the post that they've done, and we're like, "It's so much better." But it, it's, it's a, it's, it's tricky. It's tricky.

Um, but that's, that's why we have the writing style is because we, we sort of want to gear people away from using their own if they're not good, so we can just be like in support like, "Oh, try and change to like Justin Welsh style" or something like that. And it will, it will do that. Got it. It's like that balance of you know what is best on LinkedIn 'cause you understand the platform, but somebody may not know, right?

Yeah. And if that person doesn't know that, then it will be learning from a, a writing style that may not be as effective on this platform. Exactly. So we, we have the writing style preferences, but then in the back end we sort of have our overrides where we're like, for us pers- like, like people can put hashtags if they want, but like, just like as a ba- like- Got it.

Got it we d- we don't want people doing hashtags on LinkedIn. Um- Got it. So you have basically some bacCamd instructions where you know these are best rules for this platform. So then that, um, automatically applies so that the person gets something a little bit better than their original input, right?

You got it. You got it. Got it, got it. Um, and then what we have is we have, like, an identity section.

So Kleo will also learn all this information about you, so like, like your basic story and different things like this. So when you're, like, actually interacting with Kleo, it will understand more about you and that maybe it will then have a better angle of how to... And again, look, at 13 I was obsessed with coding RuneScape private servers, so it, it ha- It knows your context and backstory. Exactly.

So you, you have, like, About You. So, like, this is like a, a couple of paragraphs about me, just so that when Kleo does messages, like it knows you. Your story, we don't want it to always know your story because you might not be doing a story post, 'cause that's where you end up in an issue where every post circles back and it's like- Same things, yes yeah. Um, and so you can choose that on or off, and then you also have, like, your offers, so different things that you, you've done and, like, you, you sell at the time.

Again, I, I did mine ages ago, that's why my- that was my old post. But yeah, like co-founder of Kleo, LinkedIn content platform, uh, 100 Day First Month Live of SaaS Business, CTO of Mention. So it, it pulls all of that information and saves it. Now these are always available to Kleo, so Kleo always knows all of your different stuff about your identity, and then it has all of your different information about your writing style, and then your knowledge base would be, yeah, again, like your SOPs, your ways of doing things, your client case study that you then want to create a post from.

And, um, yeah, hope that all makes sense. Yeah. I think for someone who is new to the platform, right, Kleo gives you a very systematic way of, um, inputting your information, right? 'Cause you're almost compartmentalizing your writing style, you know, your knowledge, your way of doing things, and then it's helping you to break it all down so that it can then build something that's a bit more personal and relatable.

100%, you know. You, you take someone that's never really written on LinkedIn and you throw them on a, on a new- on New Claude, and they're like, "Oh yeah," like the, the- that's so complicated. Yes like, they're, they're like, "Well, I don't know what my r- what my writing style like, I don't know, should I have em dashes?" Like, what, why does...

Like the people don't know, and like that's the thing. Like, if you want out of the box, like good quality output, y- you're gonna get such a better output than with Kleo. Yes. I think also giving people, um, guidance, I think this is what Kleo does really well, is you don't- Start on a empty page.

You, you start somewhere, and I think that also helps. So for Cam, I'm curious to know, right, for let's say, like, the top performing LinkedIn co- posts, because LinkedIn doesn't organically have a feature where you can find top performing posts, can Kleo do that automatically? Is that something in the pipeline? Unfortunately, um, as much as we would love to have something like that, it just doesn't comply with LinkedIn's terms of service, and, um, we're, we're making sure that we stay within LinkedIn's terms of service.

Yes. Yes. I think that would, um, be a, a better and more sensible decision for the long term especially. Yes.

Yes. It's, it'd just be... Yeah. It's not, it's not a good idea.

So what then made you decide to then say, "Okay, I'm doing Cle- I'm working with Kleo now, but let me start something with Mentions," your second company that's doing something else in the AI space. Tell us more about this. Yes. So again, um, one of my best friends, Jake, he, he's, like, uh, the SEO guy on LinkedIn, and he had seen what I was doing at Kleo.

And, you know, I think th- there's a, there's quite a few things to running a business like that, and there's different important aspects to, for it to do well. So number one is the marketing. Marketing is key. Marketing is what sells.

Marketing i- you, you can't live without marketing. You then have, like, product vision, so understanding what people would want to create a good product. But then you also have actually building the thing and actually knowing how to take requirements of complex and niche things and turning them into a, a product. And I think that they had the two, they had the marketing and they had the product vision, but there was just some issues with scaling it and making it a proper product, so he just said, "You know what?

Do you wanna hop on and become CTO?" And obviously, yeah, become, like, a co-founder of the, of the business. And I, once again, it, it... I, I don't think it even took me 12 hours that time.

I think it probably took me about 12, 12 seconds. So- Minutes. Um, 12 seconds. Wow seconds, yeah.

That's record time. Yeah. Wow. And, and how is it like managing two companies as a CTO where I'm sure you're fighting fires all day, every day?

Yes. Well, I think it's, it's, it's okay now, um, because what we've done is we've, we've come up with processes and, and strategies to make things a bit more systematic. Um, having set meetings per week to make sure that everything stays on track, but not bogging everyone down with meetings Having set workflows to go from ideation to actual idea, to prioritizing, to, uh, coming up with the requirements. Um, it, it's okay now.

Um, they're, they're both quite stable products now. Um, so my life is slowly, uh, getting easier. My- the eye bags, they're slowly getting smaller. And one day they will just be gone, and you can be relaxing on a beach and having your piña colada or something.

I mean, or, or, or I'll start another business. I don't know which. Yes. That is also highly probable.

And what do you think is perhaps, you know, one mindset shift that you made, right, um, moving from employee to now co-founders? I, I think it, I think it's a huge shift. I think in any business, nobody will work harder and care more than the founders. And, you know, at the end of the day, when you're working for somebody else, every- everyone's experienced it, right?

They, they get a new employee or you start a new job, they work really hard, and then after a while you sort of get a bit more comfortable and take the foot off. Whereas when you're a founder, that intensity just, it, it never stops. Like, it, it never stops. And, um, but honestly, I wouldn't change it for the world.

I think it's, like, just life's so exciting. Yes. Um, yeah. Yes.

Uh, it's so funny, I was just having a conversation with my sister about this. Um, some of our acquaintances, they were complaining that their job is stagnant and they don't feel like they are growing. And then, uh, we were both laughing and saying, "If they start their own business, don't worry, that wouldn't be an issue anymore," 'cause every day it's do or die. Yeah.

And I think that really, um, motivates a lot of us, like business owners and entrepreneurs to keep going. So Cam, I think the AI world is also really exciting, but it's also changing so rapidly, right? Um, how do you think businesses can, can keep up or at least stay ahead? What are some maybe three practical tips that you might give a business owner?

Yeah. So I think, number one, I think it's important not to get shiny object syndrome. Like, I think that that should be number one. And just because there's a new tech, there's a new AI agent technology, it doesn't mean that right now you need to drop whatever you're doing and learn how to use it and do it.

With that said, number two, depending on the size of your business, maybe you're a solopreneur or maybe if, if you're a slightly larger company, I would certainly have dedicated time, or a person if you can, dedicated just to figuring out how you can use AI to improve your business. Now, I have done a- Like, there's a few processes I would do. So the first thing in terms of just figuring out is, number one, like, you probably already have a rough idea of what some AI agent could probably do.

Like, you could probably use your common sense and have a rough, "AI could probably do that." Maybe you're wrong, maybe you're right. Um, so h- put all those processes down. How much time does it take me?

How many times do I do it per week? Uh, tally that up, start at the top. So that, that's, that's your simple thing that someone can do tomorrow, and figure out, how can we get this thing moving? And then number three, I would probably just use the easiest tool to get that done.

So do you need to use OpenCore? For me, I, I always use OpenCore, or I always use OpenCore even over Hermes then, just because I'm a, I'm a tech nerd and I, I love it and I, I have everything set up. You know, in my, my parents' house I've got all these Mac Minis, uh, set up, plugged into the router. Um, but you don't need to, right?

If your goal is just to research the latest trends to get your LinkedIn post ideas, Claude Cowork can do that. If you want to, um, like, improve your emails, uh, like your filtering, again, maybe Claude Cowork can do that. Um, maybe, yeah, there's, there's an infinite number of things, but I think using the easiest technology is probably the, the best, the best solution. And don't overcomplicate it.

And also, AI doesn't have to do the entire process from start to finish, right? If you can just save yourself a couple hours here, a couple hours there, a couple hours there, I mean, I know as a founder, right, we're already working long hours. If someone can give me another five hours a week, I'm taking it. Yes.

So yeah, I think that that's probably my most practical advice that I can give any company right now. Yeah. I, I love that. I think, um, don't chase anything for the sake of it.

If you have a problem, then you solve it, right? So at least you know that if I'm putting time testing a new tool, there is a purpose for it. And that way, at least you can gain your time back, your sanity back, but also be super productive. So with that, Cam, we have come to the end of the show.

Thank you so much for sharing your insights. So where can our listeners find you, and who should reach out to you? Thank you so much for having me, and you can find me on LinkedIn at Cam True, and I've also just started a YouTube channel, so bear with me. Um, and again, at Cam True.

Awesome. I will drop the links in the podcast notes. So thank you again for sharing your insights, Cam, and thank you folks for tuning in. Don't forget to hit the bell for more actionable AI and marketing insights.

We'll see you next week. Take care.