Are We Watching the End of Stable Tech Employment?

Speaker A: Putting all your eggs into your stable tech career. Yeah, it's looking like a fool's errand.

Speaker B: I know people with millions of followers, they can't fill up an event of 50 people.

Speaker A: This is a very calculated chess player.

Speaker B: It's such a big gamble.

Speaker A: Kanye is not the hill to die on.

Speaker B: Hey everyone, just a quick check in. There are a lot of you listening right now who are not subscribed and it would really mean a lot to us if you could just go ahead and hit that subscribe button wherever you are listening. By you subscribing, it gives us that opportunity to get more visibility, more high quality stories, more high quality partnerships, more high quality guests, and of course, more live show in more cities. So if you have not hit subscribe, do that now. Thank you.

Speaker A: Yo everyone. Welcome back brownie techies. It is me, Michael, and I'm joined once again with the amazing abidesi. But I see in the house. Okay, cool. So actually we didn't talk about this when it first dropped, but today is also relevant. So we're recording on the 10th of April. This is the last day that any of the US Oracle employees who would have been laid off, uh, on March 31 would be able to work for Oracle. So takes time apparently. So just to give context for those of you who are not aware, Oracle, the large tech company which is worth around $400 billion market cap, laid off 20 to 30,000 employees, roughly 18% of its global workforce, which is around 160K. And it was the largest single day layoff in the history of Oracle as, uh, a 47 year old company, which is astonishing. I never knew they were that old.

Speaker B: Wow.

Speaker A: So I thought it'd be interesting just to kind of go and go beyond the surface headlines and think about why this is happening. So yeah, when I researched it, essentially there was a project called Project Stargate that was announced during the first kind of few months of the Trump administration. And there was a lot of the kind of big tech honchos. There was Larry Ellison, there was Sam Altman, there was Microsoft CEO and a few other people there. Right. And they were doing like a $500 billion investment guarantee amongst themselves to kind of build out AI infrastructure, AI data centers, essentially. So OpenAI has struck a partnership with Microsoft obviously for building data centers. That's an ongoing partnership they've had for a while. They've kind of got like a symbiotic relationship. But Oracle was the other piece. So Oracle has made major commitments to OpenAI that they will build out massive data Centers. And Oracle's revenue is like 50 something billion a year. If they do these data centers, OpenAI has promised to pay them 60 billion a year in 2027 alone. So Oracle, uh, Oracle has basically got this idea that OpenAI is going to give us all of our annual revenue from one client if we can build out these data centers. But the problem is that ISH costs a lot of money.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: So that means we've got to find the money from somewhere. So the people who have basically built, uh, Oracle to be a profitable company and selling all these boring software tools, databases, the salespeople, whatever, whatever, they were surplus to requirements. So obviously 30% of them gone just so that this golden goose of AI, you know, this opportunity can bear fruit now. Uh, this is really weird because one thing is for sure, Nobody knows if OpenAI is really going to make it. Like you don't know. This is, this is not revenue today. This is revenue for 2027, 2028. And I look at all of OpenAI's commitments, I look at all of the revenue that OpenAI said they're going to make, hasn't made. The fact that Sora, their visual, you know, image video generating app, flopped, the fact that they claimed they were going to do erotic products, that they flopped, the fact that Claude is eating their lunch, I don't know. This is crazy that people are losing their jobs now over potential promises that Sam Altman, who's been proven to be a known liar, there was a great expose that came out recently, his long history of being an untruthful person. Um, I think he was in the New Yorker. What does this all say to you? Yeah, it dropped recently. So he lied about little things. So one thing apparently he lied about that was humorous is that he told people at one of his previous companies that he was a world class table tennis player. And then when they brought a table tennis in, he was the worst player. And then he was like, I was just joking. And then there was another time when he told, you know, the CEO of Anthropic was a former OpenAI employee and there was some sort of vigorous debate they were having. And he said to the now CEO, um, of Anthropic, I think you're trying to like do a coup and replace me. Then the Anthropic CEO brought in a third party into the room and said, Sam just said that I'm trying to do a coup. And then Sam was like, I didn't say that. So it's like he's the type of person that Whatever is the most valuable thing to say at any given moment. He has a history of just saying that. And I remember Paul Graham's quote about him saying that if you left Sam Altman in the jungle, you'd come back a week later and he would be the king of the jungle with like a lion around his neck. So you don't get that reputation by being, you know, a nice person, a nice guy. Yeah. So going back full circle to Oracle, so many things. To start with, what do you say to people who have 30,000 people have lost their job? We woke up 6am and it was an email and they were locked out. Um, no HR kind of meeting, whatever. And then. Is it all based on a Mirage? Have 30,000 people lost their job on a mirage of this spectacular M. AI Profitability thing that might, might never happen.

Speaker B: Can I just say the timing of this, to do it on April Fools or the day before? April Fools. Like crazy, right? People not.

Speaker A: I mean, you do it day before, you do it day before to make sure there's no confusion, right? On the first, yeah, but then, but

Speaker B: then the next day, right, you got to text your parents, your wife, your friend, and you're like, yo, I got laid off. And everyone's like, ah, I know what this is. And you're like, no, no, seriously, like, I did. Um, but yeah, so that's kind of wild. The timing, it's very messed up. But I do think it's such a big gamble with no guarantees of success. Surely this, this cut is not just, I mean, it's such a colossal cut of staff. It's not just about finding the funds for this bet. It's also about having the confidence that the company can survive and run without these employees. Right? Like who manages the Stargate project before it goes live and all the other client work and all the other products and projects, like were they a blue to company all this time that they can cut a third of their staff and still deliver on business as usual?

Speaker A: I would guess so. I wouldn't say that Oracle had a reputation for being a lean, mean, fighting machine. It's a very old, uh, company, right. And you know, one in three people probably are doing things that are slightly redundant. I wouldn't say, I wouldn't go as far as, say, the surplus, the requirements, but maybe there's definitely a lot of redundancies in there. And then also it's like Oracle here, when I'm reading my notes says that they've had a 95 jump in net income last quarter. So they are Wildly profitable. In fact, they have just increased, they had just doubled their profits, if I read that correctly. So it's hard to know what, what is the truth behind all of this. And I am not a fan of the Edison. So Larry, Larry Ellison is the CEO as well. And um, he's been building up massive positions with the media as well. His son has merged Paramount and Skydance, they've got Warner Brothers, they've got Tick Tock, they're a massive partner in X as well. And a lot of this sort of media purchasing spree that he went on to me, from what I understand was based on his dislike of the coverage of Israel's sexual genocide in Gaza. Right. And he didn't like how anti Israel the kind of media is. So then him and his son, from what it looks like to me, have just said like, yo, we need to go purchase this. And this is not some anti Semitic conspiracy theory because Netanyahu even came out in the interview, said that the purchase of TikTok is vital because it's brainwashing the kids to be anti Israel. And obviously Larry Ellison, who actually is one of the largest donators to the IDF, is behind the acquisition of TikTok. So that's a side tangent, but this is a very shrewd operator. This is a very calculated chess player right on the board and he gets what he wants. Yeah, some of it ideological. And this looks to be just purely financial. But let's go to be more hands on for people who are listening, our audience. We are now in a situation where 90,000, I think tech workers have been laid off in a very short period of time. 91,000 tech workers have been laid off in 2026. Completely insane. That's 900 per day since the year started and it's only in March. So we have this conversation often. But are we now getting to the point where it's like, yo, you really do need to have side hustles. And I used to be the person who said, you don't need to have side hustle, just focus on your career. But I'm starting to get to the point now where putting all your eggs into, into your stable tech career. Yeah, it's looking like a fool's errand. But what say you as somebody who is a side hustle connoisseur?

Speaker B: Connoisseur.

Speaker A: Oh man, you got, you got loads of.

Speaker B: Thank you. Well, it's interesting because I was rereading uh, McKinsey research ahead of doing, um, a talk next week on um, sort of like gender inequities in tech and how AI is impacting them. And you know, we've spoken on the show before about how things like the pandemic set back gender equity in the workplace significantly. Right. Because with more people working from home, the traditional caregiver in every relationship, which is typically the woman, had to support the kids who are homeschooling, support the dad who's now home every day, like more work around the home, then sort of like usurped work in the career. And then also with the layoffs, right. We've seen that some of the most impacted groups of people within layoffs have been people who are in DEI roles, HR roles, people roles. These are women, these are women of color. And what the McKinsey research was saying was that if you look at the roles that are most likely to be automated first through AI, they are roles that are disproportionately held by women. And there was like a statistic from the United nations that said in high income countries, so like the UK, the US jobs traditionally held by men will be lost to AI, around, you know, 2.4% of those in the coming years. But for women, that's like triple. So like triple percentage, like 10% of jobs held by women will be taken over by AI. One of the recommendations that McKinsey said was, you know, women. Yes, learn as much AI as you can. Don't become a doer, become like a strategist. Right? Don't own tasks, own outcomes. Because if all you own is tasks, it's easy for those tasks to be automated. But one of the top things that it said was financial resilience. It's like you could do all of these things and you will still not be protected. So if you are someone who is, you know, afraid of losing their job, you got to diversify your income. You got to do whatever it takes to be financially resilient, whether that's the investments you make, whether that's launching a side hustle, whether that's retraining in, I don't know, Pilates, yoga, something that AI can't replace. Who knows? Like, it's not necessarily going to get you the income that your tech job did, your desk job did, but at least it's income coming in, right? Versus being in the job market, job hunting. Is it a surprise that the industry that is cutting jobs the most because of AI is the tech sector? Like, of course not. Like, if there's one industry that's going to be responding most quickly to AI adoption, that's of course going to be tech. So unfortunately this is just the writing on the wall. Because we are in a fast moving, innovative sector. We're also the most susceptible to innovations that are impacting jobs. That's how I see it. I think it is about side hustles for sure.

Speaker A: Yeah. And also I think the counter argument is that it's not AI, it's just the fact that tech has been on a bull run for the last. To a certain extent, to a certain extent we were part of kind of the promotion or maybe even over promotion of tech careers as a viable career where, you know, it's almost too good to be true. They'll pay you well, you know, you can get fed in your office. You know, we wear casual clothes, you know, we, we, we work on beanbags. And maybe it was too good to be true. And, and there was a, uh, there was an overhiring during COVID especially. And this is just the kind of inverse of that and a correction. But I still haven't made my mind up as to what the actual truth is. But I think AI is a component for sure, side hustle wise. It's just hard though, isn't it? Really? It's because I feel like the mindset of an entrepreneur is so more malleable to just assessing opportunities. And if you've been 15 years just career deep, just logging into your machine and just money just flowing into you, you know, in a simtel, I think he said the three most addictive things are heroin, carbohydrates and a salary. And the reason being is that yo, once you've had that, that stipend of just cash coming into your account every, every month and you don't have to think about it, regardless if you work hard, regardless if you are sick that month, regardless if you took a two week holiday, it's very hard to get into the mindset now of I need to hunt and kill what I eat. And I, um, would recommend anybody young in their career. Like even if you are getting a job in a law firm or any kind of swanky kind of elite role before you set in and your mind kind of ossifies, like make sure that you come up with side hustles even if they don't work out, just to kind of test things out, do an event on the weekend, you know, can you invest in a friend's little startup? Not startup, but like if they've got a cleaning business or something where you know there's going to be a profitable outcome. Um, more so I don't mean invest in startups, I would never recommend that. That's very high risk. I mean, the sense that like, look for cash flow generating things that you could either be a part of, invest in or work in. And sad, I think it is a degradation of lifestyle quality. It is part of the fact that the middle class is kind of shrinking. And that's another kind of thesis that I do fully buy into, which is that, you know, the middle class to a certain extent was a bit of an aberration in history. Like, it was like one of those things that existed after the Second World War up until like the last kind of 50 years. But it's like it hasn't been a historical norm. And it basically feels like that norm is kind of going back down again where it's like it's the haves and have not, baby. In the meantime, let's do what we

Speaker B: can agree with that.

Speaker A: You don't think, you don't think, you don't think that all the traits that we talk about in the show is that like the middle classes have been squeezed.

Speaker B: I just think what it looks to, what it looks like to be middle class is different. I don't know, I feel like class is incredibly nuanced. But, you know, there are a lot of like, really unique factors that didn't exist as much before that make it hard to assess that. The fact that like, young people live with their parents for a lot longer, they don't necessarily get married and like move in with a partner.

Speaker A: Why do they live with their parents?

Speaker B: But what class are you saying that person's working class? Because they're still living with their parents, they're still a middle class person. They just don't know what I'm, um, saying.

Speaker A: Yeah, so middle class can mean like the class of like, oh, I like the theater, I like opera. And what I mean generally speaking is that you could be single, uh, income, household man or woman, and you could provide for children and a partner and a holiday and have a car. That American dream that existed because in the UK class is very distinct. We have a very unique perspective on class where it comes to things like do you shop at girls or waitress or whatever. I'm talking more about that US Perspective of middle class, which is that like, can you. What is the comfort of your lifestyle and how do you earn your crust? You get what I'm saying? Uh, like the middle class American dream lifestyle. To me, I think it's like very stereotypical, but like, there's a clear picture there of what that looks like. You don't have to do a doordash job on the side. You didn't have to kind of do a side hustle. Right. Like now it feels like yo, you do kind of have to do that and you can't provide for multiple people. Like there's the cliche joke about things were so good in the 50s to the 70s that a man could have a secret family on the side and provide for them.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Now it's hard to even think about providing for one family, let alone I've got the wife and the kid on the other side of the road.

Speaker B: I'm not disagreeing, but I just, I'm not disagreeing but I feel like we're, we're conflating different things. Like we're talking about people who would have had like some of the highest paid salaries in the country. Right. Like if you worked in the tech industry, you would be way above the average annual income.

Speaker A: Right, right.

Speaker B: And we're saying that if you want to have financial resilience as someone who is used to having a high income, then you should start a side hustle, diversify your income, etc. But equally you could start driving buses or being, I uh, don't know, in refuse collection or like anything and you would probably halve your inc annually, but it wouldn't be a job that's at risk of being replaced by AI.

Speaker A: Right. Yeah. In terms of job security, I don't disagree. It's very different. Very different.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: But I think what I'm saying, the best example is the property market, average salary, because I know you're saying, listen, if you worked in Texas, you're talking

Speaker B: in the US or the UK now.

Speaker A: I think it's both. I think it's all across the developed world because I think this trend is throughout, which is that the average salary, the difference between that and the average property might have been like 3, 4x. You know, you might earn 25k. The average property was 100k. That multiple is now in any country. I haven't got the exact numbers, but I know the UK numbers and I know the US numbers are very similar too.

Speaker B: Like multiple rising with wages. Right?

Speaker A: Yeah. So it might be the average salary is 50,000, but the average property now is 500,000. It's a 10x jump. Um, right. And we cannot deny that home ownership is part of the kind of middle class American dream in all the western countries. Can you get your own plot of land that belongs to you? This is mine and when I retire I don't have to keep paying my Rent, essentially. Um, but this is a bit of a side tangent. You know, the middle class dream, is it going away? We'll leave that to the audience to decide. I just feel like this Oracle thing is just clear cut example of companies just casting aside people who have made them profitable over the years for an AI strategy that may or may not work, but feels like potentially a mirage. Right. And who knew that when we logged into ChatGPT four years ago, three years ago, wherever it launched, that that was the demise of so many roles. Like, it was probably an Oracle employee who logged into the chatgpt and thought, oh, this is a funny little product. That's quite helpful. That's your job gone, bro, in three years. Because literally it's the service. Sam Altman. It's the service OpenAI. But yeah, let's see how it goes.

Speaker B: Considerations, if anyone has been, um, laid off, they should check out Layoffs to Lemonade, which is like a series I made on hustle cruise, YouTube. We can put the link in the show notes, but it's like four part short series with advice on, like, how to build up your personal brand, how to tap into your network and how to start doing fractional work and side hustling, consulting, content creating and all the things that could bring you income, like in the short term.

Speaker A: Love it. Okay, so I sent you a quick funny video that I saw. I think it's from the UK Apprentice. Yeah, so it was the US Apprentice was first and then we came and copied it with R1. It's a show that I've grown up watching as a youngster. I watch less and less of it now. Um, but the funny clip that I saw was during the final round where like, you start to get to the point where, okay, is Alishuka going to invest in your business? It used to be, are you gonna get a job? Now it's like, is he going to invest? So they put you in front of these judges. So one of the judges goes to one of the women candidates and says, what is the difference between LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok? Right, I'll play the clip now.

Speaker C: Tell me what the difference is between LinkedIn, Instagram and TikTok. Well, LinkedIn is a business tool. So why then would you put pictures like this up on LinkedIn? Because that doesn't scream to me the person that I want to recruit for my care home. I can understand where you're coming from.

Speaker A: So she basically said, Listen, obviously LinkedIn is the professional thing. Instagram and TikTok are personal. The Woman picks out a picture of her LinkedIn post in a scantily clad picture. I think she's coming out of a club, a club with a long LinkedIn post. Whatever, whatever. And she just said to, uh, her. Do you think this is appropriate? And she just like, yeah, she looked like a ghost. Now, do you think that that is a fair thing to do to somebody? Because I got to be honest with you, I'm not comfortable with how LinkedIn looks sometimes. And I don't even necessarily mean, um, that type of stuff.

Speaker B: I've seen you have topless photos there.

Speaker A: Exactly right. But I have seen people get overly personal on that platform that I don't feel like is appropriate. I'm not just. I'm not talking about sharing, showing skin, but I feel like now we've gone so heavy into using your personal narrative and your story to, like, monetize and to help you get leads and to get likes and get eyeballs that it's gone too far now. Like, I'll be honest with LinkedIn is I don't even know what I'm going to get when I log in. Like, am I going to see, you know, I don't know what say you, as a, you know, somebody who, you know, cares about, you know, women's equity in the workplace is. Was that a fair. And also the judge was a woman as well. Is that a fair thing from an older generation perspective to present to a younger person and say, is this appropriate?

Speaker B: It was funny because I think her business. I haven't seen the full episode yet, but I have been following this season. It's been very entertaining. Oh, and I think the candidate, Pasha, I think she's one of the youngest candidates, actually. She's like 21, and I think her business is, um, a caring business. So like, carers, you know, for people with elderly loved ones and relatives. So I think the judge is basically saying, like, oh, so you're building, you know, a brand for, for people to invest in, you know, your, your carers. And she's like, yeah. Do you think it's the kind of image that says, trust me to care for your elderly.

Speaker A: Give me a grandma.

Speaker B: And when she's like half naked, titties hanging out, and she's like, probably not. So, yeah, I definitely think. I feel really torn on how to answer this because on the one hand, like, I don't believe that there's a world where people want to eradicate every sense of a personal boundary. Like, I don't believe that. Like, I think people actually inherently value Privacy and inherently value, like, selection when it comes to who gets to see these images or not. I think people inherently value this idea of being able to, like, create, um, a narrative, a Persona, a brand to serve, you know, whatever they're motivated towards in that moment in time, whether that's a career goal, a business goal or whatever. But I think the tension that people have to manage is what will the algorithm promote? Right? And the reality is, if you are on LinkedIn day in, day out, doing strategy, business strategy, business insight, insight, it's going to only get so far. One day you're like, you know what? F this, I'm going to post a selfie, I'm going to post a holiday shop. Boom, you're getting thousands of hits, Suddenly you're getting millions of impressions, Suddenly you're getting thousands of engagements. When you then go into your data analytics and go, what have been my top performing posts? And I'm saying this as someone who's done this, you're suddenly, like, really surprised because you're like, oh, here I am trying to build a Persona as a thought leader within the tech industry. But that's not what's cutting through the noise. That's not what the algorithm's promoting. What the algorithm is promoting is, you know, this personal story, this holiday shot, this I'm at a wedding, blah, blah, blah. So there's like this tension to manage where you're like, these stories that I don't necessarily feel are as relevant to the voice that I'm trying to be known for in my career or the brand that I'm trying to build as a leader are the ones that are getting the most attention? So I don't know, like, you also create content. Like, have you ever found where the videos that actually go viral or the posts that actually go viral are not necessarily the ones where you're actually doing anything that's like, particularly closely aligned to your business brand.

Speaker A: Do you know what? This is why I wanted to pick your brain. Because I feel like the challenges that women have are very different. And I have had stuff where I'm frustrated that content hasn't gone the way I thought it should go. But it's more to do with the fact that, oh, uh, the content that I want to promote, my products, they don't do as well as the products where the content where I'm just doing something that's more tangential and more related to, like, something that I find just interesting, right? And I'm like, oh, I wish my post about this book. You know, I Wish I could transfer those numbers onto the post where I'm like, come to my event. Because sometimes that doesn't happen. Right. So that's a very different issue.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: What I see with women, and I want to get your perspective on this because you've told me, uh, similar things about. Not about salacious content, but maybe like, uh, a post about getting married.

Speaker B: More personal life, personal stuff.

Speaker A: Yeah. Or my husband or whatever that might get more engagement. And you're like, I'm. I'm showing you lot, me, I'm doing speaking gigs. Yeah. I'm with these big fans. Like, why is. Why is that not getting liked? But then as a woman, why is it when I, you know, uh, but, you know, let me know, am I, Am I. Ah. Do you think it's related?

Speaker B: You're onto something? I think you're on something. I think, I think the reality is, as a woman creator. Right. And. And, you know, a lot of the content that I push out is being fed to women. Right. That's the reality of it. And I think, I mean, in this particular example that we're talking about content where women are just, like, posing just does really well because it's both women and men who are like, m. Let me, let me check on that.

Speaker A: Let me, let me look at that.

Speaker B: But I agree with the point that you make where, like, again, algorithms probably are leaning into traditional gender stereotypes. We've all internalized a bit of, like, sexism and misogyny and oppression. Like, we want to see women being soft, being vulnerable, sharing their failures, sharing their weaknesses, showing us that they're not perfect. We're rewarding it, we're encouraging it. You know, one of the best performing posts that I put on, and I was actually talking to, uh, a friend about this was when I posted on LinkedIn that I'm going back to the corporate world. And she's like, I think sometimes people like to know that, like, even really successful people don't necessarily have everything work out. And I was like, that's really interesting. And she's like, whether they're knowingly deeping on that or not, they're just like, yeah, yeah, clap that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, clap that. Oh, yeah, you had to get another job again because your business wasn't growing the way it was like. And I do think there's something. There's something in that. And I don't know if men creators feel that, but as a woman, for sure, like, when I'm being like, for lack of better word, a basic bitch on the Internet, look At my husband, look at my holidays, look at this. It's like soaring. But when I'm like, hey, let's dive into this, like, complex subject about systemic oppression or this and that, it's not soaring, you know, And I just find that really interesting. And similarly, you know, people like when you're winning, but they like it even more when you're losing. When you're losing, oh, you are going to get the comments, you're going to get the reflections. And I have a very complicated relationship with social media. If you looked at how I posted on Instagram, for example, which is, my Instagram is mostly women in tech, but also some guys. But if you look at how I was posting on Instagram five years ago, it was very different because I, I was in this place where I was so open, so vulnerable, getting so much engagement, but it felt like I wasn't giving myself the space to, like, process some of these emotions myself before I suddenly started sharing them online. It was almost like as soon as something happened to me, like, oh, my God, this thing happened. Wow, let's talk about it. Oh, my God, this thing happened. Let's talk about it. I was like, actually, I need to process this before I start posting about it online. And people will be very, like, supportive when things are going really well. But when things aren't going really well, that isn't necessarily there. So I kind of just started to feel a bit like I wanted to reset my relationship with the, with my father.

Speaker A: When you posted, when you posted stuff that was vulnerable and bad things were happening on a personal level, people weren't supportive is what you're saying. But they were more supportive when things were going well.

Speaker B: But it was like, comments, Comments aren't going to make you feel better. I think if you're going through a tough time, you actually need to, like, text your friends and pick up the phone and, and have someone come over to your house or take you out for dinner or go for a walk.

Speaker A: Controversially, I was gonna say the controversy. See them in real life. Controversially, like, you know.

Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like, see them in real life.

Speaker A: Like, yeah.

Speaker B: So I was just like, this, this isn't giving me what I need. So, yeah, I don't know. Like, I, I, I, I think at the end of the day, everyone's just out there testing things out, experimenting. And it's unfortunate that this photo was out there. I mean, but, you know, everyone's out

Speaker A: there saying, look at me and look what I'm selling. Right, exactly. And, and that's what the algorithms have all forced us to become. I had someone that I knew who started doing a lot of content related to their divorce. And then I was speaking to them and I was like, uh, are you sure you want to go down this rabbit hole? Because I can see that attraction is really, really there. Like, people are really relating to you, and it's, it's going super viral. But you have a business, right? And do you want to be known as divorce person? Because you could be right, you know, I mean, and every time they would post about the divorce, it would just get spike, spike, spike. And then I think fast forward a couple months later, I'm going on their account and they're still going on about it. Because that one piece of content hit, you know, I mean, uh, and it's like, I don't know. Unfortunately, you have to understand what are your intentions, what are your goals? Because the algorithm will change your goal. It will change your goal. It's like you might go, you might go on a dating app and say, I want to meet somebody. And then eventually you start thinking about, oh, how many matches I'm getting. Well, actually, that wasn't your goal. Your goal was to meet somebody, not how many matches are you getting. You could have five matches and meet one great person, but now you're worried about, oh, I don't have more than 300 matches. And algorithms will do that to you. They'll change the goal on you. And you start going in there thinking, I want to promote. Promote my business. Then you're like, I want likes. And then you're like, let me be topless on LinkedIn. I don't know, I'm just laughing at that. That's a funny example, right?

Speaker B: That's why I stopped posting as much on Instagram, because I did this analysis of where the leads were coming in to my business, who was actually booking, training with Hustle Crew, booking me to come and do a keynote speech. And always it was like, I saw you on LinkedIn. I saw you on LinkedIn. No one was like, oh, I'm seeing on Instagram. There was a time where it was Instagram, but, you know, of late it's LinkedIn and that's where it is. Or I saw you on email. So, you know, I'm investing in the email strategy. But yeah, I like you said, what is the purpose of this? Because capturing attention in and of itself is not valuable. I know people with millions of followers, they can't fill up an event of 50 people. You know, like, this is it. You need to Be able to know what are you converting that attention into. And if it's not converting into what you want, then put the effort elsewhere.

Speaker A: And also, last but not least, there's also platforms that don't allow you to convert easily. So you can get a platform where you can, um, amass followers. You then do a promotional post, you get nothing. I've done that on Instagram where I'm getting likes and likes and likes. I do one promotional post, it's getting fake, like on the following day. Yeah, nobody saw it. So then it's like, oh crap. Like, you know, they want me to pay for the exposure. I've already kind of built an audience here. Why do I have to pay again to just access the audience that I've built already? So there are platforms that are less vulnerable to that, like email, like phone numbers. I mean, Ryan Leslie was talking about the text message game. We ain't really ever done that before. But like, he's ahead of the curve. I just never been bothered or necessarily even that open to doing it. But I also know that text messaging somebody or whatsapping them is going to get you far better click through on conversion than an Instagram post. It will. If you had a thousand phone numbers, it's much better than having like 5,000, 10,000 followers on Instagram. But anyways, I digress.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Thank you everyone for listening to this week's Techish. We'll catch you next week. Subscribe to our Patreon because you missed out on a very juicy discussion about Kanye West. We will catch you at TechiesPod, on Instagram, on our YouTube and we will see you soon. Peace.

Speaker B: Subscribe.

Speaker A: Subscribe. Bye. Let's go to the Patreon story. Let's do a nice Patreon story. We got to talk about it. Mr. M. Yeezy. Mr. M. Yay. Kanye west banned from the UK. He thought he was doing his great UK comeback to perform at wireless and Keir Starmer said, hell no. So let's give the context to watch the full episode, subscribe@ah, patreon.com Techish you'll get access to all full length episodes, no adverts, the chance to submit your questions into the show, and early bird discounted tickets to our live shows. Subscribe for as little as $5 a month.