How West Virginia Turned Outdoor Recreation Into a Population Strategy

Speaker A: Foreign.

Speaker B: Welcome to Talent wars, the podcast from dci where we go inside the global battle for talent and what cities, regions and countries are doing to attract and retain the workforce they need. I'm Patience Fairbrother Wallace, and today we're heading to Appalachia, uh, to talk about one of the most distinctive talent attraction strategies in the US Ascend West Virginia. My guests are Danny Twilley and Emily Huginin, the team behind Ascend West Virginia, a program built at West Virginia University through the Brad and Elise Smith Outdoor Economic Development Collaborative in partnership with the state. The goal was to tackle a stark problem. Over the last 70 plus years, West Virginia has lost more of its population by percentage than any other state in the country. But the program was started because Danny and his team were asking a different kind of question. Not just how do we reverse population decline, but how do we leverage West Virginia's outdoor assets for economic benefit? Through extensive research, they landed on Ascend, a program inviting remote workers with a penchant for the outdoors to relocate to the mountain state and access a range of perks from cash to co working spaces to an outdoor gear library. The idea actually started pre pandemic, and now, with Emily as the program's director, it has grown to include six communities and more than 660 Ascend members. That equates to more than 1,400 new West Virginians. In this conversation, we get into how Ascend built a six location strategy from, uh, a blank spreadsheet, why they call their program a trust exercise, how a $12,000 stipend turned out to be the least important part of their benefits package, and how they achieved a 96% retention rate. Along the way, we'll also hear about two newer offshoots. First Ascent, aimed at keeping graduating students in state, and Ascend Heroes Built, built for veterans. With that, let's get into my conversation with Dani and Emily. Danny and Emily, welcome to Talent Wars. Thank you so much for coming on.

Speaker A: Thanks for having us.

Speaker B: So let's start with each of your talent stories. Where are you from originally and how did you end up where you are now?

Speaker A: We could probably do a whole podcast just on that one question, but I'm originally from Maryland is where I grew up. I, uh, grew up kind of on the eastern shore of Maryland, kind of in between the Chesapeake Bay and the ocean. I got to, uh, West Virginia via, uh, Ohio. I was in Southeast Ohio, Appalachian Ohio for about 15 years. And then I came here to WVU about in 2020. It was January 3rd of 2020, was my. My first day here at WVU and in West Virginia.

Speaker B: Emily, what's your story?

Speaker C: Yeah, so I first came to West Virginia. Uh, it was about 24 years ago now. Hard to believe, but I came here to go to college, and I was. As many young college students, I had no idea what I wanted to do, but I knew I wanted to play outside when I was not in class, so. So I went to college in the New River Gorge, and I ended up pursuing a career in outdoor recreation. I was a whitewater rafting guide. I was a rock climbing guide. And, you know, you'll see as we explain more about Ascend West Virginia. You know, how fitting this role is for me now. But it was. It was the outdoors that brought me here, and I haven't left since.

Speaker B: I love that you use the language. Play outside, too. It's just, you know, I think more adults should. Should be playing outside. So we're here today to talk about Ascend West Virginia and some related programs. Dani, why don't you start and take us back to the beginning of the program. What problem or opportunity did you see that inspired the creation of Ascend?

Speaker A: Yeah, so, I mean, I'll say one of the things that we were trying to figure out is how to leverage our outdoor assets, right? So we did a lot of, like, you know, data analytics and looking at how our outdoor assets compare to other places. Western North Carolina, eastern Tennessee, northwest Arkansas, places like Utah, Colorado, Idaho. Because what we understood is that those places have seen tremendous population and economic growth, and we know that our outdoor assets are very similar. So we were trying to figure out how do we leverage our outdoor assets and our outdoor economy to have economic and social impact on our. Positive economic and social impact on our. Our state? And so you couple that idea that we were wrestling with, and, you know, it's a great idea, but where do you start with that? You know, trying to do that? And so we heard Brad Smith, um, who ultimately, him and his wife became, you know, friends and great benefactors of the program to help start it. We heard them talking about this idea of Tulsa, right. And how Tulsa created this program, and that they had this place called the Gathering Place that, you know, this big, huge park. And they were trying to recognize that, you know, connect this idea of remote work with this idea of quality of life. And that's kind of what we kept thinking about, this idea of quality of life. So, again, uh, recognizing we work at a university, and so I go back and we started saying, well, how does that help solve our, you know, Some of our challenges. And that's when we really discovered. And it's kind of the purpose of our office, and everything that we do is to address population loss. And so West Virginia has lost more population than any other state in the entire country by percentage. We. Over the last 74 years, we've lost about 12% of our population, which equates to about 200,000 people. And so. And we continue to do that on a couple different fronts. We have an aging population coupled with an Outward Bound migration and a lack of an inbound migration. So when you get coupled, put all that together, we tend to have population loss. And then as we are seeing an aging population, we know that that's only going to be exacerbated. Right. And m. So. So we had that, and we said, oh, my gosh, if we have the highest levels of brain drain and we have the highest population loss, how can we help solve that? So then we took our data and started comparing that to, again, places like Utah, Colorado, Idaho, northwest Arkansas, you know, North Carolina. And we started saying, oh, my gosh, they start. They've seen population growth, and they've seen it in the younger demographic. And so we started studying those places and really kind of starting to dive into how they. How they kind of went about it. And so. And when you start seeing population growth, you start seeing things like business, business growth and businesses starting. And it makes sense, right, is people move to an area, they. You need more people, more restaurants, you need more people to do kind of home services. Right? All those great trade services are all part of it. And so you start seeing it, this flywheel effect that we. We talk a lot about with our program and our unit. And so that's kind of how we started seeing it. So really, you know, we wanted to, you know, create opportunities for economic mobility. Uh, we wanted to start seeing opportunities for our young people to have a choice to stay in the state. And how we do that, and we'll talk about that later. But we knew that we had to start shaping an image of West Virginia because people who know West Virginia from a recreation standpoint know how good it is. And people who live here and are from here really love the state. But we had to get this. This outward image kind of moving and also by bringing people here. And so that's where we founded Ascend, uh, West Virginia. The fun part is just for everyone to know. We founded it kind of in early 2020. But the idea started before COVID right before COVID hit, before remote work, was, you know, kind of considered a little bit more normal. And so. But then we had to build the program through Covid, which has a whole unique component, uh, to it.

Speaker B: I was going to ask about the timing because I find that fascinating. Tulsa Remote is a, you know, best in class program. We've featured them on, on the podcast as well. And they also started pre Pandemic. It's almost like they saw something in the crystal ball and they predicted that there was going to be this huge wave of remote workers. And it seems like you, you actually did something similar. I find it fascinating that you actually started with this concept of how do we elevate our outdoor assets and that it was sort of, um, a, you know, mutual benefit with driving your population growth goals. Tell us more about the focus on outdoor recreation and what has that sort of niche audience focus or niche topic focus done for the program?

Speaker A: Yeah, so again, if, if you look at what other states and their outdoor assets, and what we really did is started looking at our outdoor assets as it would relate to proximity to communities. Right. Is that it wasn't about these great destinations which we have here. We wanted to have it by where people live. So we look at things like proximity, 30m minutes, 60 minutes, 90 minutes for our trails, for our rivers, for our, uh, rock climbing and for skiing. Right. If you're a skier, you want to live in the, you know, out west or up in the northeast. But if you want skiing to be part of your life and have the other seasons, then, you know, we offer a lot of great opportunities here. And so we kind of started looking at what that would look like. And we get, we compared it to other places that kind of know how we would compare. And so for instance, we discovered that we have the highest density of whitewater in the entire country, which is great because that really helps the whitewater kayakers, that helps, you know, people like rafting, but also helps people who like to fly fish as well. Because when the water is low, have great fishing streams. We know that we have great proximity to trails and we're spending a lot of effort and energy to lower the barrier of entry to trails by making them easier and bringing them closer to where people live. And so that's how we started thinking about this. And again, there is so much research that's been done particularly around the younger generation. And one of my favorite stats is there was, uh, a study that came out that looked at generation X and Gen Zs as it would compare to baby boomers. And they were outspending baby boomers on Things like travel activities and sports. And why I found that so fascinating is because that, you know, the younger generation, they're typically coming out of college and they are starting early career and starting a family. That's when you tend to have less money, right. And less time. And they were outspending people who have more m money and more time on things like travel activity and sports. And really what that was showing was a value shift, right? And that became part of our thinking. You started coupling that with some other data that was coming out, um, that came out more recently by a group doctor, uh, Amanda Weinstein. It was looking at quality of life indicators and how that compares to business incentives. And it was really showing that if you have these amenities, recreation, small, great communities, good local restaurants and food and all of those arts and culture, that that can be, um, better driver and a more significant driver of economic growth. And so we are trying to put our arms around all of that. And so that's how we started really leaning into the outdoor as a component. And then we got reinforced when we did. And we met early on, we studied what Vermont had done because they were kind of the first to try this effort studying Remot Shoals. We studied what they were doing in Arkansas, and we studied Tulsa. And one of the first questions they asked us, like, why West Virginia? And we answered it immediately, our outdoors. And he's like, got it. You've got your hook. Because that's the key thing. And we've really, really leaned into that. And I'll kind of wrap it up with. When we built the program, we recognized that one of the fundamental, uh, core human values is a sense of belonging, right? And that has a very deep and rippling effect. This idea of belonging to a family, belonging to in relationships, belonging to communities, belonging to a sense of place. And so what we did, we created our pillars of community. And we wanted. And we looked for people who wanted to be part of a community, right. And also integrate into a community that where they live, purpose. We wanted people we know we're not perfect. And so we were looking for people that understood the idea of volunteerism, service to others, service to, uh, to again to their communities and the place in which they live and the outdoors. So our pillars of community service, uh, our purpose and the outdoor has been. Are the foundation in which we've built this program from the ground.

Speaker B: I love that you touched on the comp. The concept of needing a hook, because I think there, you know, a lot of incentive programs sprung up, especially, you know, post pandemic And I think what, what not all of them do have is that differentiator that, that you clearly had at the forefront. Um, so you had this great idea, you had, you know, some data to back up the strategy. I'm sure there were naysayers, I'm sure there were challenges. What, what were some of those things that early on, before you really got this off the ground.

Speaker A: Yeah. And so I'll say this. We, we did. We weren't focused on one single location. A lot of programs are focused on whether it's like a Tulsa or a single community. So our, we had a, we knew we had funding and we knew had support for about a five location, which ultimately became a six location strategy. And so how do you stand this up during, uh, you know, unique time in our history during COVID where you know, you have to build trust, right? You have to work with community leaders, local leaders. How do you do that when you can't always be in the same room together? So I think that was a really interesting thing for us to build that trust. And that was a lot of phone calls, that was a lot of like socially isolated visits to communities. So that was a big thing. I think the other is which communities that uh, we were going to focus on. So we actually developed something called the Community Community Evaluation Scorecard, which we're actually going to put more public in the, in the next couple months, where um, we looked at about 35 different factors and variables and we had about 40,000 lines of data where we looked at things like broadband and housing, we looked at outdoor assets, we looked at things like livability and that would be things all the way from schools, healthcare, transportation, all the way to things like vibrancy, local food, local restaurants, farmer's market, festivals, art and music venues, and then like economic factors. And so those were the five kind of categories we looked at. And we did that across, you know, 19 different communities, um, to try to understand where to start. So that was also a big hurdle because we knew we had a multi location strategy. We started that with really a blank, uh, Excel spreadsheet. Right. Because we didn't know, we tried to find another proxy for that. So we didn't have that. And then once we selected, you know, where we wanted to start is you have to, again, you have to build the infrastructure and that's all the way from a co working space. You have to get the community to buy in, you have to hire. And so we started everything. I mean it really was a, you know, kind of a PowerPoint Prezi presentation to put it into a full written proposal and then bringing that proposal into something that's actionable. So, you know, and then I will have to speak for one of our team members, Paris Winfrey. Arguably, one of the biggest challenges is when we opened up the application, we had no idea what the response would be. Right. And we Knew Tulsa had 10,000 applications. And so, you know, we were like, well, I mean if we could even get close to that would be amazing. And we, we had to cut it off for our first location because we had over 10,000 applications. And so then you have to create the infrastructure of how to filter that. And so we, it took us, uh, quite a bit of time at the very beginning of how do you find filter 10,000 applications? And what I think is the application wasn't like a 10 minute application. It was taking people 45 minutes to an hour to complete. And so we had to go through that and try to work through it. So that was like some of the more fascinating things that we worked on in the very beginning. And the team got really, really good at it.

Speaker B: I'm curious, when you were selecting locations based on all the data in your spreadsheet, was that based on greatest need in terms of population or economic need? Or was it based on these are the areas we think will be most attractive to people that we're trying to reach?

Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's an excellent question. So our guiding philosophy, and again, if you look at other places around the country that have done, done not just talent attraction work, but economic development work, we figured we had to figure, uh, feed the pulse. So where's a place that has the heartbeat, that has something, has positive momentum because we needed it to be successful. Right. So you go find those places and if you can kind of infuse it, give it a little bit more energy, you can start pushing it in the positive direction and bringing more people in then that, what can that do? And so, you know, we also then had the philosophy we wanted a community for everyone. So, you know, like Greenbrier Valley area. If you really want a beautiful small town, like with great art and great food, that's amazing. If you want proximity to like, you know, the D.C. baltimore area, then you've got the Eastern Panhandle. If you want a college town, then you've got a place like Morgantown. And then you throw, you know, if you are really, really into outdoor rec, it's your thing. Then you've got the New River Gorge with the newest national park in the country. Then you've got elkins which is arguably one of the most up and coming communities. That's where Emily lives. It's the base camp to the Mon National Forest from the western side. Uh, it's got so much potential and it's doing a lot of great things there. And then we got Charleston event I just recently came on and that's our capital. And so we think you have a, uh, community for everyone. And that's what we were really looking at. So we were comparing communities by size and by region in order to make these selections. And it wasn't easy. It was really, really a hard thing. But that's kind of how we. Our philosophy, let's feed the pulse and let's see if we can get. Get some positive. And as they start to become very desirable, then you get. Then people start looking outward, right? And they say, well, hey, well if, uh, it's harder to live in this, this community, so let me go live in this other community and that community starts and it's the whole rising tide lifts all ships.

Speaker B: So Emily, I'd love to hear from you. You joined the program after it had already launched to come run it. So what did it look like day one for you and how has it changed to today?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So when I joined the team, there were, um, two locations we were working on our. And now of course we have six scaling very quickly. At that time, you know, I was reflecting back on this. I think there were 60 people in the program across the two locations that had been going for about a year. And really the big questions we were asking right, were, you know, of course, how do we continue to market this? How do we address housing? You know, make sure there's enough housing for these people who are coming in. And how do we standardize, you know, how do we compare A. The first two were Morgantown area, which is a larger. There's no large towns in West Virginia. Um, and then Lewisburg is. The Greenbrier Valley is a town of 3,600 people. And we had 3,600 applications to that location. So really we were looking at, you know, uh, how do. How do we keep things the same but also unique. So really standardizing the program was the first thing that we did as we continued to expand. We wanted to keep that local culture the same across each region that we kept adding on, but also, uh, creating a way for our Ascend members as they come in to really be matched with the community that is the best for them. Just like Danny just mentioned, a few of the evolutions that we've had since then. You know, especially once we opened our sixth location, we really felt like we are scaling. We are able now to absorb the number of applications that we are getting. We have an efficient team where we're able to really vet these, help people with high touch points all along the way, help them get into the community that they're likely going to stick in. But we also, we create programs. We have over 100 programmed events each year and I think we're up to 2,000 now that we've done over the first five years. Everything from paint and sip nights in the co working space to backpacking trips. So really a wide variety for everyone. And what we did was we opened this up. We realized how much people travel in West Virginia. It's a very drivable state. And we opened it up so that if you live in one community and you want to go to an event in another community, you can do that. And that's really helped to cement people in exploring the state in the outdoors, getting to know more people in the program and also kind of just exploring like what is in it for me after these, this two year program, do I want to stay here or do I possibly want to move to another community in West Virginia? I think that's really contributed to them planning routes here.

Speaker B: Lee, how big is your team? How many people are putting on these thousands of events?

Speaker C: Yeah, so we have one full time experience coordinator in each location and they are working all the time on, you know, these high touch points with each people. Um, they're running at least one event a week. And then we have a, a couple of assistant directors, myself and a AmeriCorps VISTA crew that helps out. So we're 10, I think, on a good day.

Speaker B: Amazing. Yeah, I had a feeling you were a lean team. A lot of listeners out there have lean teams as well, so I'm sure they're inspired to hear that. So just to give us a sense for how the program works, could you walk us through? Let's say I'm applying for the program. What does it look like from step one all the way through getting settled in West Virginia through Ascend?

Speaker C: Yeah. And so I think this contributes to our high retention rate as well. From the moment people apply, they get, uh, email communications that not only assure them of the status of their application, it's also giving them some more information about the state, especially more information about the particular region they've applied to so that they can start to do their research. We try to keep that, uh, application period as succinct as we can. It's not immediate, it's not as fast as some people would like. Um, because we are reviewing and scoring every single application with real people because we know these are real people we are inviting into real communities and we want uh, two, at least two sets of eyes on every application. So then we bring people in for a 20 minute uh, interview and they, it's a conversation to learn more about them and what they want to contribute. Again, community purpose and outdoors is what we're hitting on in the application, in that interview and then really in the programming once they get here. So let's say patience, you applied, you were accepted, you're on the way. So you've then got a six month window to move. Um, you know, sometimes we can extend that if people have, you know, their kids are still in school and they want to finish out the school year. We're really generous but very communicative about, you know, that journey from acceptance to move. So at that point we open them up to a members only portal on a website that we maintain, which again we figured out how to build a WIX website. It's nothing super fancy, but it works for us for all the listeners. You don't have to have high tech to be able to do this. And so on that website we've got all sorts of curated resources. Everything from, you know, your utilities, your neighborhood maps, local groups you can join, all sort of a welcome packet that's online, constantly being updated. We also use Slack and that is the highest energy of, you know, kind of the online community. That way new members coming in can start to chat with and meet the Ascend members and the alumni who are still living in the area. I see everything on our Slack channel from can I get a cat sitter? To someone help me move into my apartment. And it just really helps them feel at home and helps them feel welcomed. Even before they come. Once they arrive, they have a meeting with their local coordinator who has been communicating with them. Phone calls, meetings, you know, zoom calls, all those things all along the way. But they have a meeting with that coordinator and they are expected to meet with them at least once a month, um, to receive the stipend, just to check in, just to see how, how are things going, Are their kids doing okay, you know, acclimating to school? Are they finding ways to plug in? Um, learning about the program, uh, learning if they're getting everything they want out of the program, but more so just seeing how they're settling into the community. So it's an Extremely high touch point experience all the way through from the moment you apply to, um, you know, even beyond the two year program.

Speaker B: What is the full package that I receive if I'm accepted into this program?

Speaker C: We just keep adding more and more it feels like. So I'll try to make sure I get everything. And Danny, fill in if it's anything but. We've got, um, there is a $12,000 financial stipend that's issued either across 24 checks, that's the standard rate, or if you come and purchase a home, that can be accelerated into one lump sum. So that really encourages that. We see homeownership here in West Virginia as a retention marker. And so we do have 40% of our members have purchased homes here. That's, that's one. We also have free outdoor recreation and we have recently changed the way that we do the free outdoor recreation throughout the state. We found that a lot of people were new to some of these outdoor recreation experiences and they didn't want to do it on their own. So we started building scheduled trips throughout the state. Um, this weekend people are going on a camping trip in the Smoke Hole region, which is a beautiful fishing region. Last week I think they went on a excursion train, as you know. And so these, these activities are open almost every week of the year. And then the local social programming as well, that's another part of the program benefit. There is free membership to a co working space. And um, there's one in each of our communities. They can also visit the ones in the other communities as they travel the state. And then there's an outdoor gear library. So at that co working space, there's bikes, kayaks, paddle boards, all sorts of things they can check out to explore the state on their own. Finally, we have professional development opportunities. We have things like micro credentials that we've developed remote work focused micro credentials that people have told us they've put on their resume or they've used to negotiate with their employer to help them, um, kind of stay in that remote status. So that's been really cool to hear. We also have access to the entrepreneurship ecosystem in the state. So things like conferences, uh, business coaching, all those types of resources that are already here for our budding entrepreneurs, we give them a handshake approach into those resources.

Speaker B: Going back, I guess even earlier in the process. You mentioned you had this, you know, huge initial surge of, of applications and you, you can continue to see great success there. How are people finding out about this program? And you know, have you seen a lot of Word of mouth since it launched and people started moving or you know, what does that look like to try to get that interest initially?

Speaker A: Well, I'll start with that and Emily, jump in there. But you know, one of the key things, and we'd be remiss is recognizing that this is a partnership. So we have partnered with the state of West Virginia on this program. So you've got the best end, you know, of uh, WVU coming to the table because we were kind of the anchor institution for this program, operationalize it. But we partnered with the state and particularly the Department of Tourism. So remember, they really, really good at marketing the state. They know where people are coming from to visit. And as they would describe it, and as Secretary Ruby would describe it is I'm just trying to have them come do a long term visit versus, you know, a weekend or a week long visit. And so she understands how to reach those people. And arguably, I would tell you that's one of the reasons We've received almost 90,000 applications up to this point. You know, at the very beginning, and our other partner in Wing To Wing foundation and Brad and Elise Smith, he was like, Well, I want 100,000 applications. And we're like, oh right. And you know, we're getting close. I mean we will hit that mark and it will be a big day for us to celebrate. But you know, at the very beginning you also had Brad's voice, right? I mean he is a very well known former CEO of Intuit and and so he, his voice is strong. He was considered one of the most respected CEOs in Silicon Valley. So he, him and his wife Elise were able to bring a strong voice. So if you couple like, you know, this being really important because we are the flagship land grant institution that was really unique. You couple that with our part partnership with the state and their ability to market and then you throw that in with Brad and Elise's voice at the very beginning that really kind of started that, that initial motion. And then so now it's a lot of it is still some of that word through mouth. We get, you know, still exposure through media and then we still are doing some marketing as well. So it's kind of a combination.

Speaker B: I think this is just such a fantastic case study of how tourism and economic development working together is like the secret sauce. Because you're exactly right. Tourism knows exactly how to market to the state, to consumers, to people who might be interested. You know, you're doing all of this work at the local level to, for economic benefit. And yeah, it's just a perfect collaboration.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker C: Quickly too, on the word of mouth, we are seeing a lot of word of mouth spreading as well. And even beyond just more members to our program, we're seeing more movers. We call it the grandparent effect. I'm sure some of the other, you know, communities are seeing this as well. But we've got young family, young families, middle income families coming in and they're starting families here. We've had over 22 babies born. That is not a stat that we claim, but we celebrate m and so often grandparents, friends, people are recruiting others to come and live here even, even if they don't qualify for the program. So that's been a really neat ripple effect.

Speaker A: And Emily, I'll add to that too. One of the things that we can't track. But we know, we've heard that people have said, hey, I, you know, thought about moving back home or I've moving to West Virginia. And I heard about this program may they might have applied and didn't get in or we, you know, whatever could didn't work. They wanted to live somewhere else in the state and they would move out of it. And they, and we at the very beginning, and even, you know, we still hear that people like you gave me the reason to move. Right? Like, and that, like, I mean, it just gives us the chills. Like, I mean, we're just like, yes, that's it. So there's probably a lot of people that are here that that move not just because they became part of the program, but they, you know, they heard about the program and it gave them that, that just like that extra encouragement to make the decision to move back home or to relocate here.

Speaker B: You've touched on some of the results already just in terms of the 90,000 applications, but what else have you seen in terms of impact? And I'd love to hear from each of you. What are you most proud of that you've seen thus far?

Speaker C: For me, you know, the numbers, the growth, um, has just been so rewarding to see that, yes, we can prove that this works in several communities all at once, that we can continue to scale. But it's really on the individual level. When I hear of Ascend members who are now sitting on city council, you know, in their small community, they're finding a way to make a difference. I've heard of Ascend members organizing like flood relief efforts that they're putting together, they're starting nonprofits, they are building families. You know, when we see the impact that these individuals are making in their communities and just how their communities have welcomed them. For me, that's the part that I'm the most proud of.

Speaker A: Yeah, I, I like that. Is it like those individualized personal stories of how it's changed their life or changed their kids life? Just, you know, we didn't know what home was until we became part of this program like that. Like those are. We just, we could spend all day just telling these just amazing stories about amazing people. And I call this one of the greatest trust exercises. Right. Like, think about it like you like they're applying, they might get some communication from and people would be like, is this a scam? Is it, you know, what is going on? And so they're trusting us and we're trusting them that this would work. And that's a really important component because we're not asking them to show up for, you know, a trip. This is moving their lives here. Right. And that's a trust. And so we take that very, very, you know, uh, closely. So I'm going to have three things that I'm really, really most proud of. Obviously it's the partnerships. It's the partnerships with our communities, our state partnerships with the university, with our local communities, both city and county governments, all the way to the other non profit businesses who continue to show up and support us. That web is in powerful, impact and impactful and without it we wouldn't be here. So every stat you hear is because of those collaborations and partnerships and our teams just a desire and willingness to solve the. Uh, yes. So that's my, my first one. The, the second one that I'm really proud of, and this is for the team is they put on over almost 2,400 different events and activities for our senders. This is anywhere from the paint and sip nights to rail trail rides to backpacking trips. They are, that's just a really remarkable effort and I think that's part of our retention rate as well. And then you know, kind of the, the, the final one is kind of that, that outward number, right. If you will. Like you know, we're in. That goes into that 96% retention rate. We're really proud of that couples in with the, the home ownership rate. We're really, really proud of. And then that ultimately can lead up to, we're predicting at the low end, about $750 million of economic impact. And that's really important because that's an economic driver and we have to do that. We don't start there, but I think that's a really, really Important thing when you couple it all together. So that's what I'm proud of.

Speaker B: I love that you touched on this concept of it being a trust exercise. I think a lot of times with these incentive programs, the emphasis is on, oh, well, the city or the state's cutting a check to these people. But. But, you know, you're asking people to uproot their lives and move and take a chance on, you know, moving to a new town where they might not have any connections. And I think the, you know, the infrastructure that you've built to really welcome people and fold them in is clearly part of your success. Danny, you just touched on the 96% retention rate.

Speaker A: Yeah.

Speaker B: You know, Emily and. Or. Danny, tell us about, you know, what is the key to that success? Because that's really remarkable.

Speaker C: Yeah, I'll start. I really think, uh, there are a few things. I think one of them is, well, West Virginia is authentic and it sells itself. And, you know, it's not. It is underrated. It's often seen as underrated. Um, but once people get here, they just. I. I cannot tell you the amount of times that I've listened in on a conversation between members in our program, and I'm like, oh, that's a perfect quote. Like, did you do that? Because did. You know, I was around the corner, say things like, oh, I just can't believe that I'm paying a, uh, thousand dollars less for my apartment, and it's twice the size, and I have a yard for my dog, and I just. Here they say things like, oh, my neighbors are so friendly. I never. I lived in another place for 20 years, never knew my neighbors, and I've been here for a week, and I've been to their house and had a potluck. You know, they're. They're just telling all these stories about how much they love this place. So I do think West Virginia sells itself once people take the chance to come here and to really give it a try. I think the other key, as, uh, Danny mentioned, is our programmed events. You know, we really are working hard to make sure no one feels left alone. We make sure they have. Have friends. We make sure they have activities to do and that they feel connected and, uh, and part. Part of things more than just connected, but understanding the history of the state, understanding the culture, finding ways to volunteer. It's so much more than attending, you know, sort of in a tourism experience. So that's part of it. And then I think lastly it is the, uh, the retention rate is based on people finding Things, um, that sense of belonging that they did not have wherever they came. You know, remote workers are an interesting group of people because they've got. They've figured out what they want to do for their career, but they also have this, uh, this freedom that they, they could move anywhere, they can choose anywhere. But what they're looking for is a place that. A place that needs them. You know, not, not everyone, but a lot of people in our program, when they're coming to West Virginia, they say, I want to be here for good. I want to be here for the long haul. I want to have, uh, you know, trees that I grow in my garden rather than into something temporary. So I think that's really what has contributed.

Speaker B: Danny, let's talk about the First Ascent program specifically, because I know that's part of the retention strategy as well.

Speaker A: Yeah. So First Ascend kind of came out of. So Ascend, I think of it like a bathtub, right? Is Ascend is adding water, right. Bringing new people here. But if the plug is still open and people are leaving or water's leaving, you'll never gain. And so for us, uh, First Ascent was actually. We were challenged. We were at an event. We had just kind of launched about a year in, year and a half in to Ascend and was at an event. And this guy comes coming up and says, are you the people that are running, you know, Ascend? And I'm just like, yeah. And he was just like, what are you doing? For people like me who are from West Virginia and felt like I had to leave to be successful, and instead of, you know, pushing back, it just became this conversation. We ended up spending, like evening together, had dinner. It was great. It was a lot of fun. But that question resonated, right? And we know we're doing a lot of work, right? Besides Ascend, we have this whole community development team where we're working on recreation, infrastructure and trails and bringing people together, even in more ways. So it is a very, you know, good relationship with our local communities and partners. But he was right. He was absolutely right. We were fortunate. Our university put on this innovation kind of competition, if you will, like kind of two day, like stay up all night until you solve this problem. And First Ascent kind of came out of that. We got a little bit of seed funding, and then we were able to start putting it into a few grants. But really what it is, it's to help graduating students from our two largest universities, WVU and Marshall, helping graduates who want to stay in the state find a pathway to Stay is how we talk about it, is that. And that's the key thing. If they want to leave, I get it, it's no problem. But we also want them to be able to come back as well. But if they want to stay, and we've heard this over and over and over, is that a lot of our youth are told in order to be successful you have to leave the state. Well, a lot of them are saying, I just don't believe that to be true or no, I want to be here. This is where I'm from. But it, it's hard, right? Is, you know, so how do you make that pathway? So out of that came first ascent. It gets all the same benefits. It doesn't get the $12,000, um, stipend for moving, but it does provide them mentorship. It provides them career coaching so a student can apply, um, and they can say, well, I don't have a job yet, but can you help me? And so we start doing career matching with that job and particularly in the remote or hybrid, because we recognize hybrid's a big important part of this entrepreneurship as well. If they want to start their own business and stay here. So we try to help them find a pathway into a job and then they get access to almost all the same events that our ascenders get access to. And we also add mentorship. So, you know, the power of the water cooler conversation of like, hey, Emily, you know, I got this email from my boss and I don't know how to interpret it. Can you help? You know, what does that mean? We try to set, you know, early career professionals up with, you know, more experience so they can call and rely on them. And some of those relationships have been really strong and meaningful to both the ascender and the first Ascender as well. So really it was our way to try to help again address the brain drain portion of, you know, the challenge or the problem that we're having. And so we're really proud of it. And honestly, you know, it's going to be one of our litmus tests, right? If we can have our young people stay in the state upon graduation and you know, say, well, why would I move anywhere else? I've got every, I got my family, I've got my community and I've got a great job where I can raise a family and thrive, why would I leave? That's going to be a key indicator of our long term success. So first, um, a sense of manifestation of that and it continues to grow. It was, it's been in A pilot phase for about three years at this point because it's just a different population. It's a different type of, uh, scalability as well. So we're, we've been learning a lot through that program.

Speaker B: I was going to say, I think we could probably do a whole episode just on that program alone. So maybe I'll come back to you in a couple years once you, once you've had even more time under your belt with that pilot. But I do also want to hear about Ascend Heroes, which is another, newer initiative of yours which is focused on veterans. So where did that idea come from and why did you decide to pursue that?

Speaker A: Yeah, so I'll frame it and then I'll answer the question. So we recognize again, we talk about the flywheel effect. Right. So how can you take the model and use it to target strategic components? So we've been piloting a teacher's ascent. We recognize that we have challenges with teachers in the classroom and recruiting those. So we've been piling in that with our friends at the West Virginia Public Education Collaborative and the state board and our local kind of school districts, if you will. So we've done that. We also know that there's unique opportunity for entrepreneurs. So we've been partnering with Vantage Ventures to kind of help do the same type of work for entrepreneurs. And so several years ago we recognized and it was a gentleman named um, Major General Hoyer. He's retired. A major general. He is just a dear friend, but he is a guy who, he just challenges you to think stronger, think bigger, um, think more strategically. And he said we have more veterans per, we produce more veterans per capita than any other state with the least return home rate. These veterans, when they go through military, they learn a lot of valuable skills. They know how to show up, they know how to follow directions, they know how to work hard, they know, I mean the level of skill set they have. So how can we bring those individuals back to be in West Virginia or bring new veterans? Right. And how do we help them serve, you know, help them serve the state and businesses. So this program allows us to, us to uh, they can take in person jobs as well because of their unique skill set. And so it's helping us branch into that world. Can we help fill. We on average have about 29,000 jobs open at any given moment in the state of West Virginia. We've been tracking that data for about the last two years. And so we know we have job openings and these are good paying jobs. It's anywhere from retail all the way up to engineers and business and medical. I mean, it's a broad spectrum. And so what we, this program was built out of perseverance. We've tried five different ways to get it funded, right? Like, I mean we, we knew, but we knew it was, it would work. And so, yeah, so we decided to serve those who have served us and trying to help them find, you know, a home or return home upon their service. And they get. Again, we, uh, partnered with the West Virginia National Guard, which is, you know, part of our state. And so again, another solid partnership with the state. And we've got some seed funding to kind of test it and see kind of if we can bring our veterans back or get new veterans who are like, I've always wanted to live in West Virginia. Let me come home. Here's the cool part is, you know, our veterans, not all, but many of them will have some really, you know, they go through some really challenging times in their service, especially those who are combat veterans. And some of them will come back with some ptsd. And there's a lot of, of great research that shows that spending time in the outdoors is a great way to kind of, uh, is part of a solution to help with ptsd. And so we know that veterans are built under this idea of community and purpose, right? They serve arguably one of the highest purposes, right? Serving our country and serving each other and serving us. And so we know they're built around purpose. We know they, they, they're built around community, right? That veteran community, that military community. So how can we take those ideas? And so we think that's going. And then you throw in the outdoors. Like, we know that there's a lot of alignment there. And so, and we also know that we've already had a lot of veterans apply to Ascend as well. So we think it's going to be really popular because they can do remote and hybrid work, but they can also do in person work as well. And so that's kind of how the program was built. That's how it came about. And uh, we're just thankful for our governor, um, our, you know, obviously Secretary Ruby and our adjunct general for just their support and General Hoyer for kind of making us relentless on this idea. And so we're, we're really, really excited about it.

Speaker B: That is another program I'm very curious to continue following. So excited to hear more as that continues to evolve. But just, you know, a couple of final questions to, to wrap us up here. Emily, I'm curious to hear from you about, you know, as, as more and more regions continue to compete for a shrinking pool of talent, we're facing a demographic drought in the US Right now. How do you see this kind of incentive program landscape evolving and how will that impact your strategy at Ascend?

Speaker C: Yeah, that's such a wonderful and interesting question. And I'll, I'll just share a little bit of one of the things that we've evolved on, even just in our marketing. You know, at the beginning we were very much leaning very heavily on the tourism resources, which of course still is, is the draw and the hook with our beautiful outdoor recreation and, um, you know, just all of this kind of envision yourself in West Virginia. But lately we've been using our social channels. We've been doing a lot more highlights of our actual authentic programming and our stories of our Ascend members and even highlighting some of our coordinators and how, you know, these are the people you'll meet and that, that type of human connection. I think that's what is always going to stand strong. Even as more incentive programs come up, even as more talent attraction opportunities are around. I don't think we will just keep upping our program package. I don't think we have to do. I think we're focusing on the things that we are finding that people are looking for, which is affordable housing, communities. They can be a part of and connection to the outdoors. We will continue to build our outdoor recreation assets to make them a little more accessible. We have wonderful assets here, but they're very rugged. So some of the things like entry level trails that are closer to home, those are, those are the types of things we're investing in and helping communities invest in. Um, so we'll continue to evolve in that way, but I don't think it's going to feel like a competition, um, with other cities. I think it's just really highlighting the abundance that is already here in West Virginia and finding the people who are looking for that. You know, if you're looking for an urban experience, that's not going to be your favorite place to live. But if, but so many people, we are finding that quality of life is moving into rural areas, um, remote workers are moving into rural areas. And that's where I think we're just going to keep highlighting, um, keep highlighting and improving those aspects of the quality of life that are timeless.

Speaker B: Fantastic answer. And completely agree that it's, it's not about the competition, it's about finding the people that resonate most with your value proposition.

Speaker A: Yeah. And I just want to add to it too, because, like I. When we hire people or when we are our work, our goal is to work ourselves out of a job like we do. Like, and, and that's a really important component to this is like, we want to work ourselves out of a job. We. If we can reverse that population decline and we can start seeing it going in a positive way and it doesn't need us, that means we want. That means we did it, we won. And so for us, that's our success metric. So for us, as. Yeah, you're right, it's going to become. You know, I love the term we demographic cliff. I like drought better. Uh, but, you know, you're exactly right, is it's going to be harder. But if they want to go live in another place, I want everyone to find a place that is meaningful to them. And we think for the right people, West Virginia is going to be meaningful to them. And we. And even if they come here and they decide that it's not for them, we get it. We like. We do. We don't like it. We. But we want them to be our ambassadors, then we want them to go out and say, my gosh, West Virginia be like, no, let me tell you about this state, right? And so for us, because we got asked that question a lot at the beginning, well, what if they leave? It's okay. Like, that's an okay thing. You know, we would like them to stay, but. But we want them to be our ambassadors. So for us, our goal is to work ourselves out of a job.

Speaker B: So there have been so many tidbits throughout this conversation that I think are so valuable to our listeners. But if you had to sum it up, we always like to close with a piece of advice, so I'd love to hear from each of you. Somebody's trying to start a program similar to Ascend. What's a piece of advice that you would have for them?

Speaker C: Start with the investing in the high touch points. We truly believe the human centered, um, programming and the high touch touch points are going to go much farther than, you know, flashy marketing or, you know, even investing in program components. So many of our members tell us the $12,000 was what caught their attention, but that was not what kept them here. It was the community, it was the relationships that they built. And so that's what I would recommend is just really invest in your staff. Find people who are cheerleaders for your state or for your community, um, and making sure that those local staff are able to provide the high touch point human Centered programming.

Speaker A: Yes. I, I, I'm, um, right there with Emily. I think, you know the piece of advice you've got to invest in the program. Right. We've worked with a lot of people who said they've tried it, but it was like a marketing thing or it was part of someone's job to do this. That's it just doesn't work. And, and what we've heard from those is it's a lot harder than what they thought as well. Now I tell, I would tell every single one of, to invest in it. Like this work matters. It makes a huge difference even for the locals, because when you have other people moving from other parts of the country and they're like, oh my gosh, you move from where to here? From la, Chicago, like all these others. Like, yeah, like, and they remind our locals and our state what we have is really special. And we hear those stories over and over and over. Like, no, you guys have it good, right? You, uh, have it really good. And so, so it's that reminder. And then, you know, I think, and that really comes down to our local coordinators. I mean, if you want to say the magic sauce, it's our local coordinators, they are really, really good at what they do. They really care. They know their communities as well. And then, uh, the, the other big thing, we talked about it quite a lot at the beginning is your hook. Why are they choosing? And we think about it every day, why West Virginia? Why would someone choose West Virginia over another place? Especially when you have, they have the most powerful thing, they have choice. A lot of these remote and hybrid workers and talented people, right? Going back to the previous question, they're going to have a higher level of choice than they've ever had before of terms of who they work for, where they work, who they, you know, and where they live. And so you have to keep asking yourself, why are they going to choose your location in every community? And I've been very fortunate, blessed to travel a lot of part of this, this country is almost every community has something unique and special. Don't try to be, be Tulsa. Don't try to be Ascend or West Virginia. Try to be who you are and own that. And here's the thing, if it's not as good as you, you want it to be, that's your first point of investing, right? That's when you start saying, well, look, we've got a cool emerging art scene. Like, great. Invest heavily in it. Become that art community. Start attracting the people that want that and care about that. If you have an emerging foodie scene, do that, whatever it is, is invest heavily in that, because it can't be singular. You just can't. And what we talked a lot at the very beginning is the worst thing we could do is invite people here under a false pretense and they get here. I mean, like this, you, you sold me a bill of goods. And so we, we really work hard to, to try to authentically say this is what it looks like to what, be live in West Virginia, because it's not for everyone. It's not a perfectly polished place, but it is super authentic with a great Appalachian culture. And if you give it a chance to, if you love it, it will love you back. It really, really will. And so that's kind of what I would tell anyone out there that's thinking about doing this work.

Speaker B: Well, Danny and Emily, this has been fantastic. I feel like I could talk to you for two more hours, but thank you so much for coming on Talent Wars.

Speaker A: Thanks for having us. We appreciate you telling our story.

Speaker B: The Talent wars podcast is brought to you by dci, the leader in marketing places. If you like what you're hearing, please please rate, review and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Be sure to follow us on Instagram @aboutdci and Development Counselors International on LinkedIn for video clips and extras. You can learn more about us@aboutdci.com if you have an idea for a future episode or guest, send me an email@patients.fairbrotherboutdci.com until next time.