How Transparent Leadership Accelerates Change Across Modern TA Organizations with Meg Struble of ServiceNow

Speaker A: Change is fascinating because it is such a people thing. It's not a tech or a tool or process that you're rolling out. It is all about people. So I think that a couple of things just in terms of broader with our organization, it is so critical to bring people along on your journey. Right? One of the things actually not necessarily related to the role complexity model, but another thing that we've been doing recently that I have found to work really well with this change is being very forthcoming about here's where we are, here's what's happening, here's what we know, here's what we don't know, and.

Speaker B: Hello and welcome to the Talent Acquisition Leaders Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Dull. Um, and on this show we interview today's industry leaders in talent acquisition to discuss challenges, best practices and what the future holds. If you are working in talent acquisition and have always wanted to sit down with your peers at other companies to exchange ideas and learn, well, this show is the next best thing. Join us each week as we bring you a new expert interview and extract their expertise. This episode is brought to you by SageMark HR. Transform your recruiting practices with leading edge technology. Selecting the right recruiting solutions to enable your strategy is one of the biggest challenges leaders face today. You know technology will help, but searching all the options to find out what will work best for your specific needs can be both overwhelming and time consuming. At SageMark HR, we make selecting the right recruiting technology easy. Our proven process has helped companies such as 3M, um, Comcast, Stryker, Walgreens and many more reach out to us at SageMarkHR for a free consultation to learn how we can help you improve results with less stress and confidently change from reacting to leading foreign.

Speaker C: Welcome to another episode of the Talent Acquisition Leaders Podcast. I'm your host, Ryan Dole and today I have a fun conversation with my friend Meg Strubel. Meg is the Senior Director of Talent Acquisition, Transformation Optimization and excellence at ServiceNow. Meg, welcome to the show.

Speaker A: Thank you, Ryan. Honored to be here.

Speaker C: I'm excited about the conversation. So let's jump in a little bit into your background. If you wouldn't mind giving kind of a high level overview of your background, maybe how you got started in talent acquisition. It's always unique and then a couple of places that you've been leading up to your current role.

Speaker A: Yeah, happy to. So I actually think I always had an inkling that I wanted to be at least in hr, but there are definitely signs of talent acquisition in there too. I started off in college working ah in the admissions office at my university. So I was a tour guide and then I led tour guides and then I was an intern and interviewed prospective talent. And I really got so much value out of helping students find the right university for them, depending on how you look at it, misfortune, fortune of graduating right around the uh, time of the economic crisis in 2008. So I bought myself a little extra time, went to graduate school, got a master's in HR and higher ed and actually ended up working full time after that in career services when in higher ed and stayed there similar, right? Like a ton of parallels to talent acquisition in terms of I was coaching people and helping them figure out what did they want out of their career, where did they want to go, how did their kind of values and what they wanted to do and how they wanted to spend their time at work, how could they find a company that met that? So through that role I ended up getting connected to a lot of recruiters who would come to the university and recruit. And that's how I made my way into talent acquisition and started working at Ah EY where I was there for about nine years in their university recruiting function. So had a ton of great opportunities there. Um, had local roles, leading recruiting for a local office there into bigger national roles. A lot of national programs and projects I got to work on. So that was great. And then I knew I was ready to see something else. So I did end up moving companies, but staying in early careers, worked for aig, so stayed in that professional services, financial services space and led their early in career program. And then that led me to where I am today at ServiceNow.

Speaker C: That's great. If you wouldn't mind share a little bit about ServiceNow as an organization and then size and scope, if you would like, number of employees, number of hires, what your team looks like. So ServiceNow into that would be great.

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So ServiceNow is an enterprise software company. So basically our purpose is to connect an organization's AI and data and workflows into kind of one platform, reduce friction, make it streamlined, obviously doing all of that through AI agents and really allow people to focus on work that matters. And so, uh, our company is at about 28,000 people today and it's been a company that's seen like massive growth and scale over the past couple years. It's been a really exciting place to work. And then in terms of like my team and what I do to reference in my very long title, but to break it down something much easier to understand, I think my Team focuses in two areas. We focus on what I would say, like just how are we keeping the TA train on its tracks today? Are our processes working? You know, managing with our IT and product partners, our tech stack, is that meeting the needs and allowing our TA team to do the work that they have to do today. And then the other side of my role is really focused on how are we transforming talent acquisition for the future. Right. So do we have the processes and technology in place to today to meet the needs of the future? Do we have the right training and skill sets to meet the needs of the future? What's our plan to get there? So it's a really fun job.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. Excellent job. Really critically important, especially in the space that we're in today, figuring out where we're all headed. So share a little bit, if you wouldn't mind, about maybe some things that you're. Some initiatives that you've led or your team has led over the last couple years, some things that you're particularly proud of, some successes that you've had?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot. And anything that I touch on, I would be remiss to say that it wasn't credit to like my amazing team that I work with. You've met some of them, right? I work with some pretty incredible people and I think one thing that has come out of my team that I'm exceptionally proud of is what we call our kind of role complexity model. And that relates to when you think about recruiter capacity. Right. I know that's like a tough nut for a lot of companies to crack. We still don't have it perfect. But I think this all started about a year ago when we were really trying to understand how can we better measure available capacity of our teams. Right. Especially as hiring numbers fluctuate all the time, you're trying to figure out what levers to pull. Um, at the time we were measuring capacity as just a one rack is the same or all recs are the same, let's say. And we know that's not true. Those of us who are in ta, you have a, maybe a high volume rule with extensive pipeline of talent always readily available. And then maybe you have a wreck where it's like we need the latest and greatest AI skills and there's five people on the planet. Right. That have them right now. They're going to take an exceptionally different amount of time and effort. And the model that we put in place took a ton of work behind the scenes to get our data right. Really understand what are the things that we want to go into this role capacity model? And ended up zeroing in on geography. Right. So recognizing some countries take a lot more effort because of regulations or population. We focused on the kind of addressable market. Right. So what do we have out in the market in terms of skill sets? Is it again, readily available? And then we also looked at level. Right. With the assumption that a higher level role is going to be a little bit tougher to fill than a lower level role. Build that into a model. So we can now assess a recruiter's current capacity based on points. Right. And kind of point values based on the complexity of that role versus just a simple. They can fill ten racks a quarter. So really adding some layers of dimensionality and complexity to it. That's helped us tremendously in like more ways than one. Having that data, having that model to look at. So really excited to have it be live and leveraged every day.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. That's a very sophisticated model and it's working well in your organization. I think that was a great job building that out. Maybe share a little bit about the change that occurred there and how you as a leader and your team as leaders helped the organization move through maybe that change and some of the other changes. Changes that you've led. Yeah.

Speaker A: So change is fascinating because it is such a people thing. It's not a tech or a tool or process that you're rolling out. It is all about people. So I think that a couple of things just in terms of broader with our organization, it is so critical to bring people along on your journey. Right. One of the things actually not necessarily related to the role complexity model, but another thing that we've been doing recently that I have found to work really well with, this change is being very forthcoming. Right. About here's where we are, here's what's happening, here's what we know, here's what we don't know, and try to get that to as many people as we can within the organization. So what I've been doing is actually a series of short, you know, four to five minute videos periodically, just talking. Right. There's no slides. It's here's the update. Right. Here's what we're doing. I do try to make it, you know, embed a little bit of humor in it, make people want to watch it, come up with some analogies that resonate with people. And the response that I've gotten to those have been phenomenal. People do watch them. They feel like they're included. We're not getting any feedback around. I had no idea this was happening. Right. And so just coming up with different ways to reach people. And then when I think about my team itself, I think that especially the pace of change that we're going to continue to see, leadership is going to be even more critical. Right. To keep up with this pace of change, make sure your team is coming along. And when I think about that and my approach to that, I think some of my core tenets for leadership are absolutely transparency. Right. Recognizing you can't tell everybody everything all the time, but as much as you can, sharing, even if it's times when you just don't know the answer. Right. And you have to figure it out together. I think authenticity is also massive to me. Right. And just coming across to my team, the people I work with as a person first. Right. And not being afraid of being who I am. It might not be for everybody, but I am who I am and people can decide if they like me or not. So I think, again, it's just, to me, when you are leading through change, it's being authentic, it's being transparent. It is making sure that people understand the direction that you're going in, what is their role to play in that. Right. And being really honest and direct about what that role is. And then I think one other thing I'll point out is there's AI, this, there's change that we're going to do this super complicated, really amazing thing. But you have to also remember your audience. And not everybody is in the seat that you're in. Right. Like they might not understand truly. Like when you say agentic AI vs generative AI vs best of breed or best of sweet, like people don't know what that means. Right. If they're not in this space. So I think as much as you can, use clear, direct language and eliminate all assumptions that somebody knows what you know. Right. It gets you much further with having people understand what it is that's actually happening, what it is you're actually doing and why it's important.

Speaker C: Yeah, I think that's great. And having partnered with you a little bit on your tech stack and some of the work there, that's great advice. And it is very easy for all of us who are in the throes of that, looking at very complex systems and tools and solutions and integrations and workflows, and then we start talking with others that have no idea what that means. You do an excellent job really meeting people where they're at, bringing the Organization along, helping navigate what makes the most sense for your organization and leading that change. And so all the feedback that you provided there and guidance around change is really excellent. Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker A: Yeah. I'll just add one thing, Ryan, too. Like, one thing I find success in. It's also okay for myself to admit that I don't know things. Right. And I've found great success in that too, is you're building partnerships with other people. Right. And in other businesses or business units in your company. So it's okay to say I don't know exactly what this means. Help me understand that there's no way we can be an expert in everything, especially now with the time we're in.

Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely. Let's shift gears a little bit. If you wouldn't mind sharing with the audience a little bit about how you and your team measure performance as it relates to TA ad servicenow. So maybe what's important to the leadership team and then maybe inside of ta, what are some elements that measure success?

Speaker A: Yeah, absolutely. So I don't think anybody's going to be surprised when I say, when you think more broadly, quality of hire is absolutely still very top of mind. And everybody has a different definition of what that is. Right. And what that looks like and what it means. And so, you know, right now we use a lot of what you would consider traditional measures of quality of hire. Right. How long they stay, their tenure, their performance. But I'll be interested to see how that continues to evolve as we do have more and more agentic AI linking together all of that data. Right. And maybe being able to identify some patterns that, uh, we ourselves aren't going to be able to see. So that is a big one, obviously, just in general, right. Being able to bring in the best talent. Right. Meet the needs of the company so we can grow. Especially when you think about what contributes to our growth from a, uh, revenue and product perspective. So those are always massive focuses for us. Another thing we're really passionate about right now is our early career talent and skill space. We've been very public out there that, like, we're not looking to downsize our early career talent and programs. We're looking to continue to invest in it.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: This is the future. So really making sure we're doing a great job there. Right. To grow and invest in that program and demonstrate that. And then from a TA lens specifically, we do have a number of KPIs that you track. I don't think any of those are going to be shocking to anybody in the TA space around time to fill. We look at some great operational metrics around just stale candidates and dispositioning and making sure we get back to everybody, as well as looking at how we're managing our referrals and internal hires. But again, our goal is where we want to go with AI is how can we leverage all of that and be more predictive? Right. I think that's the word of the day, is how can we get all this data and leverage it in a way that helps not only tell us, like the health of our TA organization, but how can we demonstrate that value to the business and being more predictive using the data that we have? So I'm excited to see that come to fruition.

Speaker C: Yeah, that'll be great. I agree with that. So that's a great segue into the next question, which let's talk about what's next and what the future looks like and what are some initiatives or things that you and your team are really thinking about as you look forward.

Speaker A: This is a hard question to answer and I will answer it, I promise. But we're thinking about things that, uh, you just don't know what's coming, you know what I mean? You're planning for such unknown. So, uh, that is both exciting challenge and opportunity, I think, for all of us in this TA space. But I do think a couple things that we're looking at is obviously how can we continue to improve and optimize our processes to be successful in this new AI landscape? We have the opportunity to get, I think, a lot more efficient, simple in our processes right now. We work a lot with the edge cases and solve for the edge cases. Right. And I think the more we do that, the harder it's going to be for us to successfully adopt AI. So we're looking at that a lot. And like everybody, we're continuing to stay on top of all of the technology trends that are out there. Right? What is going to be the best for us when we think about where we want to go from being predictive with our data leveraging, agentic AI. So we're absolutely thinking about what technology is going to make sense for us both internally. Right. We've got an amazing company, amazing workflows, amazing tech, so wanting to make sure we're leveraging that to the best of its ability too. And then I think it's about skilling right now that we're at a place where recruiters and coordinators aren't doing a lot of the button clicking anymore. And that's a good thing. Right? And Then how do we make sure that our teams have the right skills in place to move away from the screens and the buttons and the systems, right to the people and continuing to double down on that. Those relationships that selling of here's ServiceNow, here's the career, here's what it could look like for you and really making those connections.

Speaker C: Yeah. Where are you at? It'd be interesting to hear what kind of where you're at in that journey and how you and your team are looking at the future of the recruiter, what those core skills would look like as you look forward.

Speaker A: Yeah, we're really lucky to be in an HR organization, a global people organization that's thinking about that at an enterprise level. And so what does this look like not just for ta, not just for global people, but for the enterprise? And listen, we do not have all the answers. I do not have all the answers, but I do think the one thing that I will say that has to be true, right? When we think about this, it has to be done in collaboration, right, with your learning and development team. It has to be done in collaboration with your HR business partners. It has to be done in collaboration with your IT teams, right? Like, I think more and more, if you're not already best friends with your IT team, your legal team, right, have to go out and make more friends, um, because they're going to be just ultra critical, right? To not only the upskilling part, right? But then you have to, in order to like, take advantage of the time to upskill people, right, and shift this role, you need to have that tech in place, right. And use it, and use it compliantly. And we're very much in the TA space, especially at, uh, I would say the beginning to middle phases of this. But those are some of the initial learnings, I would say, that I have noticed from embarking on this journey.

Speaker C: Yeah, that's great. Last question. Let's talk a little bit about maybe some advice that you would give to others in this space or maybe a best practice that you want to share, or both.

Speaker A: I think that from an advice perspective, something that I've just seen a lot of success in, and I think we as talent acquisition leaders need to do even more of this is, and I'll preface this with I am not a Six Sigma expert or even remote expert and don't know much about it, but one concept of Six Sigma that I like is this concept of Gemba, right? And it's a Japanese term for what's called the actual place. And that's the place that creates value. And I have found, especially as I've grown in my career, it gets really easy to lose sight, lose touch of the end process. Right. Who are the people that are actually using the technology, doing the processes day in and day out, talking with the candidates, right. And that NTA is our recruiters, our sourcers, the true like value creators, right. Of the work. And so I think as much as especially through this big moment of change and talent acquisition, the more that we can continue to prioritize time with people at all levels, right? But especially those end users that helps you drive the change, right. They felt in touch, they have felt like they've had a say, a voice at the table. People making the decisions truly understand what their pain points are, right. And what their ideas are. So that has helped them. And then I too have learned so much from those conversations, right. It's helped influence how I approach communications. It's reframed what I thought maybe a problem statement was to what it actually is. So again, I think the more we as leaders can continue to do that and hold on to that, that GEMBA concept, it will be really helpful to us.

Speaker C: Meg M. That's excellent advice and going where the value is created or the work gets done is really good guidance for folks. Meg, I really appreciate you joining me today on the show. I think you did a great job and appreciate you sharing.

Speaker A: Thank you, Ryan. Thanks for having me.

Speaker B: We hope you've enjoyed this episode of the Talent Acquisition Leaders Podcast. If something we said today resonated with you, please subscribe, rate and download our podcast and share the episode with your network. Ready to transform your recruiting practices with Leading Edge technology? Just like our other clients at 3M, um, Comcast, Stryker and Walgreens. Then reach out@sagemarkhr.com for a free consultation.