Innovating at the Intersection: Dave Chaimson’s Journey through Music, Tech, and Beyond

Speaker A: Hello, and welcome back to Success at Scale. I'm your host, Greg Stein, and today I have the privilege of speaking with one of the most amazing guys and leading the music industry, music products and technology. He's the president of Full Compass Systems. His name is Dave Chamsom, and, oh, my God, it's a privilege to have him on this show with us today. Dave, welcome and, uh, tell us about you.

Speaker B: Hey, great to be here, Greg. Thanks so much. Uh, a little bit about me. That's maybe that's a short story, long story, I don't know. Um, you know, I've been president of Full Compass for a couple of years now. Uh, been in the industry for, I don't know, 20 years or so. Started my career in the multimedia music space with, uh, a small startup company called Sonic Foundry back in the mid-90s. So it gave me a taste really of what startup life was like. My first desk was a door that was suspended across stacks of milk cartons. So I kind of understand life as a startup and really what it takes to, to kind of put those sacrifices together in order to get started and bring passionate ideas to life. So, uh, Sony ended up buying us in 2003. So I spent 10 years at Sony working for the professional and the consumer divisions. Spent time between Parkridge, New Jersey and San Diego and Tokyo. Really kind of getting an idea of how does a small startup from Madison, Wisconsin, find its way through an international company like Sony. It so is a. A fascinating journey through, through the, the music world, through the digital audio and recording world. And then kind of in between that, I spent about seven years at a place up in Oshkosh, Wisconsin, just north of Madison, called the Experimental Aircraft Association, a nonprofit all about getting people excited about aviation. And while I was there, I was part of an accelerator with the University of Wisconsin, Oshkosh, that helped startup companies in the world of aviation find their legs. And I was able to provide some mentorship and some guidance in that accelerator called Aero Innovate. So it gave me another taste from the other side of the table. So having that background of coming from a startup software company to years later, providing some of the things that I learned to companies that were just getting started themselves. So I've always loved that aspect of taking what I've learned and being able to kind of give back to companies are looking to grow. And so Full Compass is a nationwide distributor professional audio, video and lighting products. And we're always looking for new things that, that we can bring to our customers. A lot of the Products that we sell you can find just about anywhere. But I'm always looking to find that diamond in the rough, that great idea that maybe we can help nurture and then bring it to the industry years later.

Speaker A: Wow. I mean, quite a story, man. I mean you got aviation, airplanes and music products and technology and Sony and. Oh man, there's a lot to unpack in here, but let's rewind a little bit. Uh, are you a musician by trade?

Speaker B: I am, yeah. I, I play piano. I've been playing piano since I was eight. Uh, I play guitar. I uh, sing, I write, I compose. I uh, had a chance at your pitch competition to, to hang out with Jordan Rudis from Dream Factory for a little bit. That was kind of humbling, a little scary. So you know, you kind of look uh, at that guy and go, I'm not even going to touch the keyboard anymore. But yeah, so it's ah. I have a nice perspective at least of what some of our customers are looking for and, and kind of the way that uh, we need to approach them as well.

Speaker A: Amazing. Yeah, yeah. Uh, Jordan is just incredible uh, as a human being but also as a, just magical, uh, he's the wizard as they say. Just a magical musician. It's, it's incredible. But you know, when I, when I ask you this question, I'm asking you because it's really interesting to me. I've really spent a lot of time looking through the lens of being a drummer, uh, in my case, or a musician who, who is looking through the lens, uh, uh, of being a musician for the purpose of business and driving business, creativity, business together. It really is a kind of a magical combination. How does that play into your world on a daily basis?

Speaker B: Well, I think it's really um, having that understanding and appreciation for our customers. Whether it's someone that's just getting started in a home studio or whether it's someone that's taking a massive audio, video and lighting rig out on the road. I think it's having, you know, especially coming at it from the mind, you know, from an entrepreneurial, entrepreneurial perspective. It's, it's really. How can we innovate from within to solve our customers problems? Whether you're a drummer who, I know you've got a lot of problems but that's fine, no fault.

Speaker A: That's a whole other, that's a whole other conversation.

Speaker B: Not gonna go there. Therapy, the whole, the whole thing. I mean you guys call the stuff that you sit on thrones. I have no idea why but that here you Go. Oh, yes, I get it, I get it. Um, so I think that's really it. And that's what I think, you know, not. You know, one of. One of our strengths at Full Compass is, is putting ourselves in the seats of our customers. We pride ourselves on. On consultative service. We think of each one of our customers as entrepreneurs. We think of ourselves as an entrepreneur. I don't think it's ever too late to think like an entrepreneur. Even though our company has been around for 50 years, I. I always preach innovate from within, and oftentimes that's innovation for and with our customers, to listen to them, to understand what they're trying to do, to understand what problem they're trying to solve, and not sell them something that they don't want. And, uh, so I think that's kind uh, of goes back to some other challenges in the entrepreneurial market space. Not to go off on a tangent, but really providing the market what it needs, not pushing a need for something that doesn't have a problem yet or a solution for no problem that exists. And I think that's really what we're good at. And what I enjoy from companies that sell to me is solve my problem, solve it cheaper, solve it better, solve it faster. And that's really where we take pride in, is spending time to consult and to learn what our customers need and, and providing the best solution that works for them. And I think the entrepreneur has to always have that in mind. You know, I think they need to have the passion and belief in what they're trying to sell and match a product or a service or solution for a problem that exists for whomever they're going after. And I think that's really something that you never want to lose sight of, no matter how old you are or no matter how old or where your company is in its growth stage.

Speaker A: Oh, wow, Dave, you, uh, just threw a ton of other things in there. Once again, I guess innovate from within. I love this idea. I love this concept, and I think also solving a problem that really exists for the customer, this is something that a lot of people lose sight of when they're making their new product, their new brand, their new service, their new innovation, whatever it might be. And they fall in love with the idea, and it becomes the idea that they're selling, and it doesn't really resonate or have a market or have a customer. Right. So I love this. Innovate from within, starting with the customer in mind and really genuinely solving those problems better, faster, cheaper, you know, I, I definitely think that's, that's correct and so glad to hear uh, you, you kind of share this, this kind of idea and philosophy that you embrace as well. How do you uh, on a daily basis, you know, as you look through your priorities, of all the things you have to do as a president in your role, uh, you got a lot to do, uh, how do you kind of prioritize sales, marketing, business development, the organization, whatever else is on your mind. How do you kind of balance all of this?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think and certainly in my role as a president it's keeping your ear to a lot of the things that are going on in a company and being empathetic I think to what my employees are going through. I mean I, I grew up at a company starting in customer service at a distributor of industrial safety products. Back in the mid-80s I was a product manager at Sonic Foundry. I walked in my first day, they handed me a box of software and a laptop and said learn, you're going on the road in two weeks. I've been director, uh, of marketing at companies and so I understand really what some of the challenges are and I've grown up inside the industry and I think it's if you can be an, an empathetic advisor to people inside your company and listen to them. I think it's, it's really how you kind of set your day and prioritize the tasks at hand. I think it's read a lot, uh, I think it's listening a lot and I think it's learning a lot. And I, and you notice I didn't say talking a lot because I think it's more important for someone in my role is to really listen and I think I keep going back to innovate from within. I always challenge people to come up with the solutions that are going to innovate a better way to address our customers needs. So I think that's really it. But you know, obviously there are certain responsibilities and accountability that comes with it. And from a uh, startup's perspective, again I think, you know, it's my job to really provide tools for, for data analytics and business intelligence. That's one thing. You can never have too much data but you have to have a way to work through the data and how to action upon it. And I always look for employees to find patterns in the data and what are some of the things that they're going to do and I think startups need to have that same perspective as well. And I know it's a little bit harder they don't have a lot of history. There's not a lot to go by. But the more that they can understand about customers, the more that they can start using some kind of predictive analytics, the better sense that they can get what the customers are going to need, the better off they'll be in. The better off I'll be as, as president there in my role because, uh, any one of my days is not the same. Some days it's an operational issue, some days it's a marketing issue, some days it's a sales issue. And I think having the ability to sort of stitch those things all together to find out how I can best address those is really what's key. And I think that's what entrepreneurs also need to do, is to really listen internally, but also listen externally and figure out how to balance those things and really work towards, like you said, kind of keeping the guardrails a little bit narrower and making sure you're staying true to the mission. Um, but really looking at things like technological solutions and customer solutions, uh, I think are really, you know, kind of where I like spending my time.

Speaker A: Well, this is interesting in that, you know, I had this conversation with somebody just recently about it's very easy to listen to customers and listen to the problems and listen to all these things and then go into defense mode. How do you balance the idea of your agenda and what you are trying to accomplish and then the 80% of things that's getting thrown at you, how do you kind of balance that?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's really easy to be overreactive. We'll get feedback from one customer and then all of a sudden the sky's falling and we've got to change business philosophies and we've got to do something different in operations and our marketing isn't quite right and we're not shipping f enough. And I'll go, how many people have we heard this from? And we'll get three. Okay. So I think that that can be very, very distracting, especially in startup land, is to get pulled in so many directions that you start diluting your focus from really what you had set out to do. And sometimes I tell our, uh, team to sort of listen to the customers who aren't talking. You're going to hear from the ones that love you. You're going to hear from the ones that hate you. You're never going to hear from the ones that are middle of the road and I'm sort of satisfied and things are going okay. Somehow you've got to be able to extract why you're not buying from us or why are you, why you are buying from us. From those customers that never provide feedback to you. Because those are the ones that you need to find out more about. Uh, the ones that are the vocal minorities on the opposite ends of the spectrum. Love and hate. You'll hear from them. But don't overreact to the negative and don't put too many assumptions into the positive. Find a way to get in touch with the customers that have bought from you maybe once and maybe haven't come back to you a little bit. And then figure out how to balance those things out so that again, you haven't lost focus about what you're trying to do in the first place.

Speaker A: Yeah, that's spot on. I mean, you know, for us, uh, a lot of the times we spend a lot of time talking about, you know, reverse engineering your way to the end goal of what you're trying to achieve and the North Star and having that North Star. What I find a lot of times is those that don't have that North Star or skip that part because that's, that's hard. You know, let's, let's skip that part. We don't need to worry about the future. You know, that's, let's worry about what's happening today. Uh, what I find is, is what happens is then they end up just chasing whatever is the hot topic of the hour. And in nine times out of 10, they don't really go anywhere. Have you seen this yourself?

Speaker B: Yeah. It's funny going back to the early days of Sonic Foundry, you know, we were, we got started as a software company in digital audio, and then we got kind, uh, of distracted and went into digital video. And then we ended up kind of getting excited about some of the potential opportunities in security. Then we started getting interested in facial recognition. Then we started getting interested in streaming solutions. Then we started getting interested in formats conversion. And we bought a lot of companies and we bought a lot of technology. And then the dot com crisis happened and we didn't have a solid enough foundation. Nothing against the guys back in the day, but the foundation started to crumble and then we had to start unloading different pieces that we brought on that. When I look back 20 years, 25 years going, that we tried to be so many things to so many different markets that we lost our focus. We were a public company, of course, we were after shareholder value and we were after all sorts of different things. And it might have changed our trajectory, but no matter what stage you are, you started the company because you had a passion and because you had a belief in an idea. You can always bolt on additional supporting ideas. But don't let it turn into a house of cards where all of a sudden, if the wind blows, you find yourself on not so stable ground. You have to be able to have the strongest backbone. You probably could make sure that those ideas work and float properly and you can fulfill on that mission, really, before you start branching off into other areas, simply because you feel a compelling need to satisfy a fringe portion of the marketplace. So I think that's, that's really what you have to keep in mind.

Speaker A: Spot on. Spot on. So, so let me just ask you this. Like, you know, from a technology perspective, things are moving really fast. And you just talked about like an example back in, before 2008 of, of how, you know, technology was moving really fast then, it's moving at lightning speed now. You have, you know, AI, you know, and everybody's talking about, you know, is that going to be helpful or hurtful? You know, what's your take? And, and how are you kind of managing, uh, full compass systems through all of these technological changes, whether a workplace or, you know, um, you know, just in partnerships or your customers, you know, how, how are you managing this?

Speaker B: That's a great question because I, I don't think a day goes by where I'm not sold some new technological solution. And of course, these days, right, it's, it's all about artificial intelligence and what that's going to do for the company. Some days it's a better phone system, some days it's a conveyor system. I, uh, think you're always going to get pitched new technological platforms and I think it's so easy to, and so tempted to go after the next bright, shiny object. But I think again, it's another way that you're going to get distracted and spend a lot of money because there are a lot of people really good at selling a lot of solutions that sound really easy to implement and the payoff sounds remarkable. But I think, you know, coming at it from a skeptics point of view, which I hate doing, but again, there's a, there's a practical side to all the technology that's being sold to you. I think I always look at it from the customer's perspective. Again, is it something that's going to help us deliver a better solution to the customer? And if so, what's the return and what's the payback and how fast can I Do it. And is our sales team going to even care about it? Um, is it something that's going to increase the top line? Is it going to decrease expenses? It's going to enhance efficiency. There's so many different things out there that, uh, you've got to be real careful about where you're spending your time because these things aren't easy to implement. They're long. You know, again, you're going to be told and sold. That will be up and running in three months and it's going to save you a couple million dollars. And this is going to integrate seamlessly into your existing ERP system. Uh, you know, I've heard all the dog and pony shows and again, you've got to be really careful. But with that in mind, there really are a lot of good solutions out there if you pick them wisely. Automation, I think is a great way to look at things. It really drives a lot of efficiency these days. Data analytics, again, it doesn't matter what you're using, provided you've got something that can start helping you with data and start helping with predictive analyses. I think, uh, chatbots and virtual assistants are also a big deal these days. I think if you've got enough information or you're building the proper knowledge base, you can start taking advantage of some of the simpler ways of incorporating AI, I think to be able to deliver faster and smarter solutions to your customers. Some companies are taking advantage of augmented reality or virtual reality with product tours or space tours or three dimensional tours that provide again, another way to show a, uh, customer through a different solution. So I think there's a lot of things out there, there are a lot of pitfalls and I think there are a lot of cautions to being sold and distracted. And I think those technologies are going to come along at certain times throughout your growth. But make sure you're looking at the right technology for the right phase of where you're at right now. What do you need most in order to advance your mission? Is it a customer service solution? Is it a phone solution? Is it an EDI solution for your supply chain? Uh, and so I think you've got to be able to prioritize. And again, you don't have a lot of money as a startup. You have to be able to prioritize your best return and your best way, I think, of finding the fastest path to your customer. And so doesn't mean you shouldn't take advantage of all of these. But they're not all necessarily going to come at the same time. Nor are you going to reap the proper benefit at the same time. And so I think you have to stage out what solution is best for you at a particular time.

Speaker A: Oh, man, you're, you're so right. I, it really is about, uh, efficiency, though, at an early stage.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: You know, you're at an early stage, you got to watch your Runway like it's nobody's business. You got to keep your expenses really low and you've got to perform at extremely high levels.

Speaker B: Right.

Speaker A: Not only that, but you also have to make sure your, your next round of financing is there.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And this is something that, you know, we at Triple G spend a lot of time, you know, talking about with companies, um, and nine times out of ten, they come to us looking for money, but the reality is what they really need as a strategy.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: And so I'm, I'm kind of curious, you know, you're in a more established setting now, but you have been in, in early stage companies and part of them. And I'm curious, you know, how do you look at, you know, the fundraising effort as an exercise, you know, is, is there any, you know, key learnings or things you've taken away, uh, from that experience?

Speaker B: That's a great question. And I think that's so key, especially companies that are in some of the earlier phases, the seed phases, the, the angel phase, is that sometimes the strategies are being put together by, and uh, again, no offense to the engineers or product designers or founders, they're being put together by people that are so close to it somet that often I've seen some, um, of the most important aspects of what you're trying to do omitted because they're taken for granted and they don't end up becoming part of the strategy. I think startups need to find an advisor or a mentor or someone that can champion the development of the strategy from, I think, multiple perspectives. So you don't end up with something that's either too engineering focused or too design focused and not necessarily coming up with a pitch to someone that's going to give you money on a strategic focus and why this solution is best for the marketplace. And here's how we're going to grow. It's sort of the, uh, cliche is certainly cart before the horse or engineer before the solution. I think that's really what's key. And that's oftentimes what I've seen omitted is, is really bringing in the key components that complete the strategic plan. Because there's just this emphasis on, we've Got the best product solution and here's why it's going to work best, but really kind of ignoring what the market is going to get out of it because you're so busy trying to sell and define the technology or the product all at the same time and everything gets muddied and everything sort of gets a little bit lost. Yeah. And so, uh, there's, you know, and the irony of it not, not to. To pick on any of the guys at the pitch competition at Nam, but it was one of the moments where the guy got to one of the ends of the pitches and he casually dropped a sentence at the very end. And all the judges are like, oh, that's the difference. And so there's the seven minute pitch of which somehow got neglected was the value proposition or the best competitive advantage, because somehow it was so innate to him that he just forgot to communicate it. And the light bulb went off and time was up. So it's getting into.

Speaker A: And you see this all the time. You see this all the time. You know, it's really interesting to me. I spend a lot of time on pitch decks and a lot of time on pitches and all of this kind of stuff. And here's what I've learned. The hardest one of all of them. You can talk about traction, you can talk about all the things in the company and the financing, all this stuff.

Speaker B: Right?

Speaker A: It's great. But the problem that you're solving is the hardest thing to articulate. But when articulated really well, you almost don't even need to say the solution because it's so obvious. Yeah, yeah, right. And the problem is that most people overlook the problem that they're solving. They go right to the solution. You know, look, I've got a great calculator. You know, here's a calculator. But what does the calculator actually do? We have no idea. Right. Like the listener has no idea. So, you know, I think the reality is going back to the problem that you're solving and who it's for and why they need it. And some really basic questions is like the one thing that people should focus on. Do you agree?

Speaker B: I agree. And, uh, I think that's what's key because I think without having that solidified, the numbers side of the things aren't going to make much sense because you've lost. You've lost them early on and because they all of a sudden didn't adopt or didn't believe the solution. You can have the best financial analysis put together. You can have the proper market share Numbers, you can put your growth curves together, you can put your return, you can put your total addressable market share, you can hockey stick it to death and make the investor drool over the market potential. But if they don't see the idea percolating and growing and maturing and having viability, the numbers will be meaningless. And that's where I think you have to get whomever you're pitching to somehow join you in the pursuit of the passion first. Because they have to believe in it themselves internally before they go like, oh, all right, that's really cool. All right, now let's see what you've turned those into from a financial perspective. But if they don't see the vision, if they don't see really what the solution is, you kind of lost them before you even got to the dollars and cents.

Speaker A: Exactly. Right. And going back to the pitch competition, so just so you know, everybody knows that's listening, we did a pitch competition at namm. Uh, we had all these amazing, uh, you know, companies present, uh, but also this panel of judges, which included Dave and, and Dave, I'm just so curious. You, you came into this thing, you know, you've got a whole bunch of experience and all this, uh, you know, looking at, you know, companies and evaluating opportunities, things like this. But what, what was on your mind as you came in? Like, what were you looking for? What were you thinking about before anybody pitched? You probably had some preconceived notions. This was the first time we ever did this on a NAMM show. What was your kind of like, I'm looking for something that really did fill in the blank.

Speaker B: Yeah. Uh, I think, you know, as I mentioned before, we're, you know, the products that we distribute kind of fall in this commoditized categories. I mean, everyone's got an SM57, everyone's got line array speakers, everyone's got DSP products. And I think what I was looking for, you know, really is what's out there that's going to rock the marketplace, really, what's the new idea? And it might not have come out of those pitches, but someone might have had a thread about something that makes sense for me from the distributor's perspective. What's a new category? What's a new technology? What's something that, that we haven't seen that selfishly, I can go, hey, that is a great product for Full Compass. I want that as an exclusive. That's probably not going to happen, but that's kind of how I go into it. I'm like, all Right. Maybe there's something that Full Compass can invest in. Maybe I can white label or brand something. Full Compass. Because I think that is the coolest thing that's going to solve this problem for our customers. And I think that's kind of how I went into it. The other reason I went into it, I think when you and I talked early on, was my just desire to give back, to listen to these pitches and to learn about what the companies are doing and then offer myself up as a voice or a service for whatever idea that they had that they wanted to bounce off of an individual. But like I said, selfishly, I pivoted to like, all right, what's really cool for Full Compass that I think is, is the next piece of software, the next piece of hardware, the coolest guitar, the next amplifier, the next digital signal processor. And I think getting that sense, because you're not always going to see that on the show floor. You're going to see companies that maybe already have a viable product or a minimum viable product that they've had and they've done well enough to be able to afford a 10 by 10 booth at NAMM. That's great. Some of the companies that, that you had, some had a booth, but some are like, oh my God, we are so early. We don't even have. All right.

Speaker A: Oh, yeah, early on. Just getting started, you know. Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker B: But seeing those things come to life I think is really what I find most fascinating. And as a matter of fact, I had a chance to talk to, I think three of the companies after the pitch competition to continue the discussions because again, seven minutes of pitch is, it's tight, um, as it always is, um, when you've got investors for an audience. And so I think that's what I, I loved hearing about is really where what's in the designs of these inventors, these developers, these engineers, that's maybe not that product, but maybe something that's going to pivot and what can I get my hands on?

Speaker A: You know what I loved about all the things you just said?

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker A: Your North Star continues to shine through during this conversation. Right. You wanted to know about what's going to really light up the customer. You wanted to know about, you know, things that you wanted to give back. Right. Your narrative that you started this conversation with is really shining through. And, and I think this is bringing it back to the point of why someone does need to have a clear strategy, why someone does need to have their clear North Star. Um, these are all the ways in which it shines through, but I want to bring it back to you. Yeah, I want to change the topic and bring it back to you. I want to know what are some of the best practices, uh, that you've learned over the course of your career, whether it's a startup or it's a more established company, just ways of operating, ways of doing things, um, that you think about in your. In your daily, daily work.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think, you know, some of the best practices that you can have. Again, m. And we talk about this all the time, and we just spoke about this as a group the other day. I think one of the best practices that we put into place is moving at the speed of the customer. And I think that that's something that you can keep in mind no matter where you are in your stage of development. And what I mean by that is don't get so bogged down in overthinking your processes because you're trying to do something the right way from a departmental perspective that you've left the customer hanging. And I think that's really what we try to focus on. And that's one of the most. That's. That's the best practice that we can put into place. Whether it's approving a credit application, it's getting a product out the door in our warehouse, it's getting back to a customer. In customer service, the customer has a certain speed that they move at because most likely they're calling you up because they've got a problem. We need to figure out how to solve it without tangling them up in our red tape. Just because we've got six steps to do something, to process something, perhaps in our finance department, doesn't mean that the customer should pay a penalty for our internal deficiencies. So we're always looking for ways to move at the speed of the customer. And I think if you can look at that in all of your different departments, you can start instilling a philosophy and best practices in each one of your functional areas. Because every department, once they have an appreciation for what the customer speed truly is, they can start putting themselves back into the customer shoes. And, like, you know, I know I need to do this, and I know I need to run this by so and so, and I know I need to call these three people to get the answer. But you know what? I'm going to pick up the phone. I know that Tom's busy today. I'll call the customer back because I've got a faster way to get them that answer. And I think that's really, probably one of the best practices that we can use internally is to never forget that the customer is calling you because they've got a need or something that they've got to buy to solve one of their problems. And the minute that you practice that internally, I think that just pivots everyone's mindset just a little bit to kind of get them out of the administribia that maybe is right for their department, but perhaps is wrong for the customer on any given day. Wow.

Speaker A: So well said. I, you know, I can't, uh, stress what you're saying enough to anybody that's listening. I mean, you know, put the customer first. And, you know, there are so many people that I interact with that say these words, but they don't actually internalize them the way that you are. So, uh, they'll say, oh, yeah, we put our customer first. But in their actions, in their daily operations, it doesn't necessarily translate. How do you make sure, like, you know, your organization, you know, kind of stays true to this mantra?

Speaker B: I think it's just talking about it frequently. You know, we've got certain things that we talk about as an executive team that I expect to then trickle down to the directors that I expect to be discussed at the department level. And we'll try to provide different answers when things go bad. Like, okay, some customer typed in a street address wrong, and we didn't, you know, we kind of left that order sitting on hold for too long because no one took the time to go to the Internet to look up the proper address of this Fortune 50 company that was out in Georgia. Like, seriously, it would have taken about two seconds for someone in any department to go ahead and perhaps just validate that rather than putting it at the bottom of a stack of paper and just going out. Address wasn't right. And then the customer has to call back and go, uh, didn't get a package yet. Oh, well, you didn't have the, the proper address on it. So it's, it's using some. I, uh, I fictionalized a lot of that. I don't want to think that we are. Are sloppy in our address correction, but I think that's a good example.

Speaker A: Bring up something that's really, really important, which is happens, happens.

Speaker B: Take the risk out. There are times that I've called customers back because you know what? I know the answer, and I don't want to give it to the sales manager, who then has to talk to the account manager, who then has to track the customer down. The customer just called Me with a complaint. You know what, I'm going to call them right back, and I'll just deal with this myself, and then I'll fill in everybody else on what the resolution was, because, again, why? Because I'm empathetic. I've been in that chair. I understand how angsty people can get when they're waiting for certain things to happen. And so I think we find different examples. We, we break them down and we talk about it. We use that to figure out, all right, that that didn't address the speed of the customer. And I think that's what startups have an advantage doing because they're very close to the customer when they're just getting started, because oftentimes they're talking to the customers at trade shows, they're understanding exactly what they're doing. They can pick up the phone and call them because there's only six people at the company. So they've got out of pure desperation. Uh, and proximity. Great advantages to having no layers between them and the customer. I used to take engineers sometimes to trade shows to have the engineers demonstrate the software to the end users because it was faster than having the salesperson at the trade show talk to a customer, get the customer feedback, bring the feedback back to the engineer. The engineer was like, yeah, I don't necessarily believe that. So you know what, I'll take the engineer to the trade show, I'll have them stumble through the demo to the customer, and then get that customer to feedback directly. The engineer brings it back is like, yeah, we got to fix this. So again, speed of the customer. It's basically breaking down those types of barriers, taking sometimes the designers in front of the customer and having them get together and listen instead of trying to channel all of that back through product management and sales management. No, go to the customer, listen to them, believe them, take it back, see how big of an issue this truly is, and solve it quickly. And I think the startups have a fantastic advantage in doing that because they don't have those layers yet in the company and they're very nimble, uh, and they can bring their vision forward to the customer and immediately take it back and react and respond.

Speaker A: It is interesting too, you know, from a startup, uh, story phase, right? You start out and you got to prove product market fit, and you're spending your whole time doing that. And as you're proving product market fit, you're getting to a place where, you know, yeah, you might be really focused on your product, you might be really focused on your customer, but getting the two to really work together. That's the magic of it. But then, then you get past that and you go into more of a growth stage. And that's a different skill set yet again. And as you continue to mature as an organ into a, uh, full compass, hopefully we all are that lucky one day. You know, you, you get to a place where there are different challenges as you grow. I guess there's another secret in there, a secret sauce which is as you move from stage to stage, as you continue to grow, continuing to stay agile, continuing to stay nimble and move at the speed of the customer. Right?

Speaker B: Yeah. And that's why, uh, you know, kind of circling back to, to some of the first things we talked about was constantly innovating from within. If you can take what you're learning from your customers, have a nimble business philosophy, and again, it becomes a little bit less practical the larger you get. But if you always keep those things in mind that every department, any individual can innovate a solution that allows us to serve the customers faster, I think it's a great philosophy to incentivize and encourage is to keep trying to develop those ideas. They're not all going to be winners. There are going to be some that you're just going to kind of chuckle at a little bit and go, great, we'll put that in the list. But you'll be surprised at where the best solutions to solve the customer's problems come from. They come from the people that are dealing with those functional areas of expertise. They come from the person that's putting the boxes together to ship out the orders. Hey, if we only turned it this way and we applied one piece of tape this way and we made the box just a little bit more streamlined will save, you know, we'll save 3% off of our shipping costs. Or someone in, uh, E commerce that decides they can find a more templatized or automated approach to email development. And so those are the, the ideas like, hey, uh, you know, me and, and Tom kind of met and we came up with this idea and we worked on it after hours and we kind of called on our little Skunk Works project. Do you mind if, if we show it to you? And you're like, hell no. And I think those are the things that if you get people to have that spark or you, you kind of incentivize that type of innovation, that's really where you can see people start to shine. Don't discourage that type of out of the box thinking. Constantly encourage it and let the employees that are using those types of systems and processes and platforms kind of reinvigorate those, those innovative ideas. They're all over the place.

Speaker A: Super cool. Um, let me ask you this. You know, it's, it's a crazy time. You know, it's uncertain. You know, it's a rapid time of technological change. Uh, it's even an election year, right? There's a lot of stuff going on out there.

Speaker B: It's butter.

Speaker A: And you don't know where things are going to go today, tomorrow. It's just constantly a moving target, especially after a global pandemic. So my question to you is, you know, what kind of practical advice do you have to someone that's listening right now, maybe struggling, maybe having a tough time, maybe trying to navigate this uncertainty? What would you, what kind of practical advice would you give to them right now?

Speaker B: I think try to filter out the noise and control what you can control and let the rest sort of quietly fade away. You can get inundated with data, statistics, the, the news cycle, the competition. There's a lot to be worried about, and there is a lot that you can control, but there's a lot that you can't control. And I, I think it's, I, I struggle with that. It's certainly hard not to spin when you start looking at, you know, 1.6%, you know, first quarter growth, once you start looking at some of the greater economic factors out there, when you start looking at the stock market, when you start looking at the volatility not just in the financial markets, but the volatility in the news cycle, the volatility in popular culture, the volatility in politics, there's so much out there that can distract a company from doing what it does well that if you don't have the right, I'll, uh, use the word in a positive way if you don't have the right blinders on, in this instance, maybe the blinders have some filters that you can let a little bit more of the light in. But I think if you let it distract you from what you do best, um, you know, chase the things that make sense, but just stay true to the mission. Don't let some of those things that you can't control start dragging you off in different directions because you're going to drive your internal resources crazy if you pivot too much and too fast and in too volatile of a manner. And I think that's when, that's when employees will start looking at you sideways. And it does remind me in some of those earlier days in some of the companies that I worked for where you're trying to address certain markets that maybe are a little bit outside your wheelhouse, and those demand an inordinate amount of attention. And all of a sudden you realize that you've kind of left the customer that brought you to the dance kind of on the wall in the shadows. And so I think that's. That's what you have to do, especially in key management positions, is figure out how to filter all of that out and distill the proper things that are really going to drive you forward.

Speaker A: Well, uh, Dave, look, this has been an absolutely enlightening conversation, uh, some really good practical advice, and, uh, I'm just genuinely excited to reconnect with you after the awesome pitch competition, which we were so honored that you were part of in the first place. But, um, you know, look, uh, thank you for being here. For anybody that's listening, you know, please. Sure. To, like, share, subscribe, all that social media. Good stuff. Uh, Dave, one last question for you. If someone listening wants to get a hold of you, how do they get in touch with you?

Speaker B: Oh, they can get in touch with me directly. My phone number is 608-628-5745 and my email is bchamson c h a I m m s o n@fullcompass.com and if anyone wants to reach out and talk about anything, I'd love to chat further.

Speaker A: Wow, you don't hear that very often from a president, uh, of a major corporation giving you his cell phone number. So there you go. Uh, Dave, uh, thank you for being here. Again, anyone that's been listening, please, uh, be sure to, like, share, subscribe. Uh, we'd love to connect with you at, at Triple G Ventures. Uh, check us out at Triple G ventures.com and until we see you next time, thanks for listening. And.

Speaker B: Sam,