Why Less Information Builds Better Businesses with Sam Johnson

Hi, welcome to Stories Built Businesses, the show that proves your story isn't just something to tell, it's a strategy to build from. I'm your host, Megan Wright, story-led strategy coach and founder of Stories Built Businesses, and I'm very excited today to be joined by Sam Johnson. Sam, thank you so much for being here. Hi, thanks for having me. So Sam, to kick us off, it'd be lovely for you to tell us a little bit about who you are and what you do. Sure, okay. Yeah, I'm Sam Johnson. I have a company called Sam Johnson Copywriting, which I only started about 7 or 8 years ago. And then more recently than that, about 4 months ago, I started a company called The Hook Book, which is books that can be read in less than an hour for busy entrepreneurs. And I think we are all guilty of buying business books and then they become a lovely statue on the bedside table, gathering dust, and you feel productive because you've bought them. So you're like, oh, I've taken a step forward. But actually, if you don't read them, then you don't get the benefits. So I love that you're all about creating books that people will actually read. I have to say, the idea came from my notoriously short attention span. If someone presents a book to me that looks like War and Peace, my brain will immediately say, "No, that's not going to happen." And I will read the first bit, skim the rest of it, and then tell everyone how much I loved it. So that kind of— that sat at the crux of what I was doing, what I wanted to create, and also Entrepreneurs are by nature creative people who tend to be thinking of the next idea and the next idea. I know that, and also I know that they're often time poor as well, so finding something that could, you know, have all the best bits and could be read in less than an hour seemed like a no-brainer to me. Yeah, and I think it's that like accessibility and that it's actually readable. I think a lot of business books are quite dense and academic almost in tone, so making it lighter and easier. I think sometimes you come up against books, and I was definitely— I was a bookworm as a child, and it took me a really long time to feel okay with not finishing books. I used to force myself to read till the end even if I wasn't enjoying it. And it was only as I got older that I was like, you know what, if I'm not enjoying a book, this isn't something I have to force myself through. I should be able to put it down. I think there's a balance. Give it long enough to make sure you're right, because sometimes they can be a slow burner, right? And you find something amazing. Give it long enough, but once you've made up your mind it's not for you, then go, let it go. It's not going to bring you anything, is it, if you're, um, if you're kind of doing it under duress rather than doing it through enjoyment. And I think for me, reading should be a joyful thing, whether that's your reading for pleasure or you're reading for business. It should be an enjoyable experience. And why, why can't— exactly. And in a business book, it should be the same. I say sometimes I'm a bit like a metal detector. So a lot of people don't realise the gold that they possess, what they do and what they know. And it's the story, it's the frameworks, it's the methodology, it's the, the USP of each individual person that I write for. And I love that concept of bringing your story into it as well. That's a big part of what I do is that actually people's story informs everything about their business, informs how they build their frameworks and their offers as well as their messaging. And I think the things we've lived through do shape us. So we can't avoid the fact that they are the things that change our perspective, that give us insights that we wouldn't otherwise have. Whether those experiences are positive or negative, they create who we are, and that then in turn shapes how we work and how we support clients. I think you've absolutely hit the nail on the head. I think there's so many times in business where people think more is more, but actually I think less is more, particularly when people are being bombarded with so much information, where everything's at their fingertips with AI. Actually, The, the skill isn't in giving people information anymore because they can find that in a heartbeat. The skill is in giving them just the right amount of information and the actual bits that they need. Totally. And you're right about being bombarded. The online world that unfortunately most of us have to spend some time in is so noisy and it's so pressurized and everyone's telling you their way is the right way. And this whole kind of hailstorm of people telling you what to do. It's so hard to navigate. I think that was another reason why I wanted them to be actual books. You know, hold it in your hand, open— weird people like me like the smell of a book, you know, and I think it's that opening the book and actually feeling it in your hands and all of that stuff played a big part. I wanted it to be tangible, to be a tactile thing, a whole kind of experience of holding it and looking at it. So yeah, I think you're right. I think it's a nice little antidote. Yeah, and I think you're right, that tactile nature. I think that's something that so often we miss from the online world is that tactile. And you're right, the smell of books is— there's nothing. I mean, I'm a sucker for an old book smell. Like, new book smell is good, but old book smell is like— that's— yeah, I'm with you. I'm with you on it. People think I'm a bit odd because I often will smell, and the feeling of opening it and the spine kind of creaking a little bit when you open the book, all that stuff. If you're a bookie person, you will understand exactly what we're saying, I would imagine. Yeah. And I think there is something about being that bookie person, like you said, that you do have an innate love of words and stories. And I think finding ways to entice people who maybe aren't bookie people is a really lovely kind of entryway. Like I was, I was the kid that like my parents could not keep me in books. Like I was reading them quicker than they could bring them into the house practically. Whereas my sister was not fussed in the slightest, like that wasn't her thing. Yeah, yeah. I get, I hear that. I have twin stepsons, um, and one, he was crazy young when he started reading, he's just one of those kids and he's always been there. The other one, same upbringing, same kind of input on his youth and all that stuff, not really. He likes anime, manga, he'll read them, but yeah, he won't do it. But I think you're right about the people who wouldn't normally read a book and this is the ideal for them. It's the people who wouldn't normally feel confident to write a book on the one hand, and the people who wouldn't read a book as the ideal client for being given a hook book. So what parts of your story and personality would you say have shaped how you work the most? I think the biggest thing is I love the creativity. I love the talking to people. I'm such a chatter. I really enjoy people. I like different people. I like finding out about them. And I found when I was doing the copy, whilst writing someone's sales page is nice, okay, and it pays some money to me, you know, that doesn't compare with sitting down with someone and saying to them, right, tell me your life story. It's brilliant. I mean, it's fantastic. It's just like the— other than, you know, headlining Wembley Stadium, it's a pretty good runner-up. So I just get to sit and talk to these amazing people, this variety of people with inspirational stories. And I get to help them to tell their story. So I think that's the biggest one, is that I genuinely love talking to people and I love creating. So I think that's the biggest one. And the second one is I'm a huge procrastinator, as I probably said earlier. I will always find something else to do, and it has to be something really interesting to stop me going off and, I don't know, making another cup of tea. And these stories are that, you know, some of them are my friends, some of them have become my friends. It's a real privilege to be able to do this for these these amazing people. Yeah, I feel the exact same. I think when people invite you into their story and that personal aspect of their life that isn't necessarily their business forward face, it's such a privilege. And it's something that I take very seriously in the sense of I'm very protective of their story because it has to be shared in a way that feels right for them. It has to be shared in a way that feels safe for them. And I think there has become in some places on the internet, a bit of a move towards a bit too much vulnerability, and it becomes a bit emotionally challenging for people. And that's something that I'm really trying to push back against, actually. You can tell incredible stories, you can tell powerful stories that really build your business without having to feel like you've got a vulnerability hangover at the end of it. Yeah, there's a couple of levels to that, isn't there? One is clarity around that very point. They, they only need to talk about what they want to talk about. We're writing copy, but the copy will only connect if people understand the person behind the brand. But yeah, I, I do think you're right that, uh, getting that boundaries, those boundaries right so people can tell their story but still feel comfortable about how they're saying it and what they're saying. I think curiosity, like, and that's something I really resonated when you were talking about just loving people. For me, I was thinking like that curiosity about people that made me Sometimes probably as a child would have been deemed a bit nosy. Now as an adult, I'm like, I'm just curious. I want to know about people. It's not a bad thing to be interested in other people. No. And honestly, the people I've met over the last sort of 10 years, I've learned so much. And you're never too old. That's the other thing. I get quite frustrated with some people who are like, ah, well, it's not my world, is it? I'm like, come on. Behave yourself. Why are you stopping? It's like people who say all modern music is rubbish. No, it isn't. You're just not listening to the right stuff. Every generation's music was good and crap. That's just how it is. You're right, and I think particularly with the music conversation, like, it's so often that they're not listening to enough. They've listened to one or two and made a snap decision based on such a small sample. And I think if we approach people like that, where we meet one person and then make a judgment call, 'Oh, because that one person was like that, then everybody's like that.' We miss out on meeting so many incredible people. So keeping that open mind and that curiosity, I think, is so important because to me, lived experience is one of the most valuable things we've got, both in terms of our own lived experience. But if we can then learn from other people's lived experiences, then we get the benefit of so many more lifetimes than we're ever going to be possible of living ourselves. And so the skills and the insights we can gain through conversations where we're genuinely interested in other people is just huge. I've learned so much. I mean, just from my clients since I started. Yeah. And I just think being able to hear other people's ideas and bounce ideas around, be like, no, don't agree with that, but I do agree with that. I think that makes our creative thinking spark. I think if we're only ever in an echo chamber where the people around us agree with us and think exactly like us, then it's hard to see outside of that. I hear you totally on that. And you mentioned earlier being a bit of a procrastinator, but the other thing I've heard you saying is that you're not very entrepreneurial, which I find a really interesting statement from somebody who is quite deep into entrepreneurship now. Now, who'd have thought? Um, so this, it all came about because my wife Lisa had this idea that anyone could go from nothing to making their first sale in 30 days, especially someone really unentrepreneurial. I don't know if that's really a word, but you know what I mean. It should be if it's not. And that person was me. And so we set up this challenge. We filmed it as a TV show called The Impact Experiment. It was great fun. And it basically showed me going through the journey, which was a lot of me coming up to the camera saying, I can't do it, I can't do it. It's not me, I can't do it. And then saying, 'Oh, can I have another cup of tea?' And then all of this stuff. Genuinely, that was me. And then Lisa being big bad boss cracking the whip. But we got there, you know, and I did it because the reason it worked is because profit tends to come from passion, I think. To find something that I was passionate about was what underpinned me doing it. Let's not say I don't still procrastinate, because I do, but doing it with more heart and more diligence and more of a conscientious attitude because I genuinely liked what I was doing. So yeah, that's how it came to be. I still don't really feel like I'm an entrepreneurial business owner. I still feel a fraud. I just like to write stuff about people. It's a— yeah, oxymoron for me because yes, it is doing well, but at the same time, you know, I still don't really believe it. What is it, do you think, that makes you not believe it or feel like a fraud? I think because I don't really do much of the businessy stuff, and that's where people would get on me not get on me, but would pick on my entrepreneurial skills. I'm not very good at marketing, I'm not very good at sales, I'm not very good at that kind of stuff. I'm good at the writing bit, so I'm having to try on social media. I'm working harder, I'm getting more consistent, but as in the TV show, it shows me a lot saying, "Can't I just write the books? Can't someone else do this?" And everyone's saying, "No, you're a sole trader here, you have to do it all." So on the one hand, I'm extremely grateful that this is what I do for a living. And on the other hand, I'm still thinking, really? Is this what I do for a living? I think that soul trader bit is definitely something I struggle with at times where I'm like, can't I just do the bit I love? But there are so many hats you have to wear. And until you get to a certain point where you financially are able to just hire in a whole team, you just have to do it. And it's hard because as entrepreneurs, we all know what our strengths are. And at the start, we so often have to play to strengths that we don't have and just kind of make the best of it and kind of go with imperfect action. And then you get to the point where you're like, okay, now I can start outsourcing because then you can put all of your time and energy into that thing that drives you forward. But yeah, it's a slog to get to that point. And I suppose, I mean, let's be blunt, when I was 30, I had a lot more energy than I do Now I'm 56, and so purely from a practical physical point of view, I get knackered quicker. I, you know, people were retiring at my age not so long ago and all this kind of stuff. And then I remember what a pleasure it is to do what I do. You mentioned Lisa, and obviously for some people they might think that living with their business coach and having that on tap 24/7 is a dream, but I imagine it's not always ideal to have the business coach with you, seeing what you're doing all day? It's a real mixed bag. It's generally a bag full of very happy, positive stuff. I'm, you know, eternally grateful and extremely lucky to have, in my opinion, one of the greatest business brains— brains in general— I've ever come across sort of in my locker. But we are so different, so, so different in how we work. I thrive on positive affirmations, is one of them. So if I've done something, if say I've written an email and I'll send it to Lisa and I, an hour later I'm just carrying on, I'll say, did you get the email? And she'll say, yeah. And I'll say, how was it? She'll go, yeah, it's fine. I'm like, was it good? Can you tell me? And then she'll be, you know, she'll equate it to applauding the pilot when he lands the plane. She's like, that's his job to do that. Your job is to write this stuff. So there is that. There is also, she is so focused and I've known her wake up in the morning and go, I've got an idea for a course. And by sort of 2 in the afternoon, that course is created. The sales page is done, the ads are out. It blows my mind. So, but those contrasting skills are great. I'm much more of a free thinker than she is. I tend to just go off the cuff and just create, make something up, which doesn't always work. But I, and the other thing I would mention is we're very good at drawing the line between work and home life and kids and family and time off and all that stuff. That is massively important. And we both have separate spaces to work in, is what I would say. And so I know you mentioned the experiment and how that went. When you started the experiment, were you apprehensive? Oh yeah, hugely, hugely apprehensive. But balanced out with me and my let's not think about things too deep and compartmentalize everything brain. This will be fun, we got people come to our house to film us, you know, I can just be the clown, which is kind of my default go-to, I'll be the one kind of mucking about in the meeting. I always was at school, I always was in corporate, and that was what I thought at first. And then the longer it went on, it was right at the beginning, we were just sitting around coming up with ideas, you know, what are you passionate about? Whiskey, football, darts, music, writing. And then so obviously we plumped for the writing one. So the books thing was great, love the idea of it. And then as we went on, a bit like we referenced a few minutes ago, I started, it started to get, I'm gonna have to go on Insta and do a live, I'm gonna have to do a launch, I'm gonna have to I'm going to have to create a sales page. I'm going to have to promote said sales page. All this stuff was when I started to think, oh, here we go. This is getting a bit real. So yeah, it was a journey of— it was like a soundwave journey, I think is how I would put it. You know, you were— there were these amazing highs and then there were these scary times. And that hasn't changed much really since I started it, except I'm sort of on my own now and I'm learning. As I go along. And I have made a few mistakes, and I've always been a bit of the whole, if you do it, what's the worst that can happen? If something goes a bit wrong, it goes a bit wrong. It's a little kind of summed up version of life, isn't it? Yeah. And how have you found that swap from being with the cameras and that almost external pressure to get on and do stuff to having to do the self-motivation? Because I think that's part of— it's part of being a solopreneur that people really struggle with is how do you stay motivated when you're not getting that external validation or that external pressure to keep going? It's a really good question actually, and I haven't really thought about it. I think the main reason I've been able to sustain it is the passion for it and the fact that I genuinely enjoy doing it, and I love talking to people, and I've met some amazing people. I think if it had been something else, if it had been maybe, I don't know, we kind of talked a little bit about doing a subscription box for whisky because I love whisky. If it had been that and I'd just been sitting in a room filling boxes up, would I have maintained the commitment? Dunno, probably, probably not, I would say. So I think that's the main reason why, and it's exciting. I mean, I've never done this before, so it's genuinely— when I talk to a potential client, and when the sale comes through, it's so exciting. Like, this actual money coming into my account that I've made, you know, and because I'm there, right, it is me, that feeling of excitement and gratitude and inspiration is right there. It's not filtered away by layers of an organization. It's literally coming to me. So I think that's, that's why I was able to keep it going. And you mentioned words of affirmation being motivating for you, and I think It's a really interesting balance when you work for yourself because you do get that external validation from things like sales, but also things like testimonials. And there are so many ways in which you get external validation, but also it can be really hard or really easy maybe to fall into the trap of only feeling motivated when you are getting those. So if the sales are a little bit harder that month or you're not getting the kind of external feedback because you're not seeing as many clients, then that can take a real kind of hit on people's confidence. So I wonder how you balance that, that wanting the external validation and the words of praise, but also knowing that that can't be the motivator. I don't think I balance it very well. I think just off speaking honestly and candidly off the top of my head, I try and find something else to kind of bring me that little dopamine hit. I'm a sort of sporty person, but not let's lift some weights person. It's really boring. But if I can go in and do half an hour, 45 minutes or something, it gives me a little boost. I like to have, on the weekend, I like to have a couple of beers or a whiskey or something, and I enjoy that kind of, that chill-down time. So I guess I don't handle it overly well, but I suppose on the other side of the coin, It makes me work harder to get more of that and think of different ways that I could get seen by more people. The fact that I'm talking to you here today, I've not been on many podcasts. So I guess that's the way, isn't it? Is to try and think of ways to be proactive in creating more experiences that give you that affirmation. Yeah, I think you're completely right. It's care and self-care and wellbeing is a big part of how I work because of my past careers. And it's like, it's so easy if you don't kind of put that in place for those little voices to start creeping into your head. And once they get in, it's incredibly difficult to move forward and actually then get to the point where you are making sales and you're getting positive feedback because you're so fixated with the negativity. That's definitely the biggest challenge. Just chatting this through with you has been quite a dream. That's the biggest challenge of working on my own for myself. Again, I've got people around, but it's the old buck stops here type thing, innit? And it does, you know, because this is just me. And I think you're right, and I think it needs a concerted effort when things aren't working out so well to really think, what can I do? You know, how can I be, you know, accountable for this? What can I do to turn this around? That's probably the biggest challenge. Thinking about it, talking about it, thinking out loud, that's the biggest challenge. Yeah, and I think it's one of those contradictions as well, is everyone is like, don't worry about what other people think, just do, do, get on with it. And you're like, that's very easy to say and very hard in practice. You're right, and we're all made differently, and some people find it easier to don't need that affirmation, don't really give one about what people are thinking about them. You can work on yourself and you can grow and you can develop, but your fundamentals of who you are are the fundamentals of who you are. And I perhaps over the years have learned to take it and laugh about it a little bit more about me being, being need to be told I'm doing well. Being told you're doing well and working hard to get plaudits, testimonials, referrals from people is a more positive way of getting those affirmations because there's an end result from them rather than just a pat on the back, well done you. Yeah, it's about kind of driving it or kind of funneling it into something productive rather than just allowing it to kind of run your brain. And something that I love to do, just as we're wrapping up the session, is I do something called gifting a word. So I have a think about all of the things we've talked about and summarize it into the word that kept popping into my brain. And the one that for me kept popping up was expansion. The idea of expanding both in terms of as an entrepreneur, but also expanding knowledge through meeting people and curiosity about their stories. So I don't know if that resonates with you as a word. I wouldn't have perhaps thought about that being so relevant until we've spoken. I like, you don't have to sign up to getting old and losing your curiosity. That's not a done deal, you know, you do what you want to do, you decide. So I think, yeah, I think that's really part of it. I think that's part of why I'm enjoying it so much. Yeah. And using that curiosity to kind of expand your world, expand your concept of people and what you're doing. I think once we're curious, then more opportunities open up. And it's when we stop being curious that the world gets a lot smaller for us. Couldn't agree more. Yeah. Thank you so much, Sam, for joining me, and thank you to everyone for listening to Stories Build Businesses. If it resonated, I'd love you to share it with other people who you think would like to listen, and come follow @Instagram on Stories Build Businesses. And remember, your stories matter more than you think, and the way you build your business gets to feel really good. See you next time. Bye!