Helping Founders Successfully Scale Their Startup

Speaker A: Our guest is a software engineer turned the Mary Poppins of startups, and she is passionate about bringing her multifaceted toolkit to help bridge the knowledge and implementation gap between tech founders and their startup businesses. You will love meeting this outstanding startup advisor and coach on the 250th episode of the Startup Life Life Show.

Speaker B: What?

Speaker A: Let's glow, everyone.

Speaker B: Woohoo.

Speaker A: Hello, uh, and welcome to the 250th episode of the Startup Life Live show. Oh my gosh. I'm your host, Andy Lyons, four times founder and startup champion to founders around the world. And after raising four businesses of my own, you know, I, uh, know firsthand I what you are going through every single day. The challenges that you're facing, the high levels of uncertainty with family members all like biting their nails while they watch you, right? Oh my God, what's going to happen while you face and solve problems, find the solutions for your startup every single day. I am in awe and wonder of you and I'm so grateful that you carved out time to tune in to the 250th episode because you are going to love meeting this incredible tech startup and coach and and founder herself. Uh, that has the best story, so be sure to hit that like button if you're watching the video and share the podcast wherever you are and everywhere you glow. So we can get this wonderful episode out to founders everywhere because as founders do better, their startups do better.

Speaker B: Ta.

Speaker A: Ah da. Um, let me go ahead and just introduce you to our phenomenal guest, the one, the own. Oh, there we go. Nylee Mackengoo. She's a software engineer turned the Mary Poppins of startups. And Nilee is so passionate about bringing her multifaceted toolkit to lead complex software projects and launch project products. With over 10 years of experience, she has a proven track record of turning around struggling technical projects and organizations, from seeing seed startups to large corporations such as Siemens industry Software and wow. Investors love Nile. Her tech and product catalyst for startups helps startups close onboard and manage more clients, particularly in the B2B sector. And prepare for investor scrutiny and due diligence, along with improving startup maturity level, enabling faster building, launching and scaling. I can't wait another second. Let's welcome Nilee to the show. Hi, Nile.

Speaker B: Hi Andy. Um, thanks for having me on the show. I'm really, really excited to be here.

Speaker A: You know, Nile, I have no idea how I met you. You know, this is the beauty of being online and connecting and pulling on threads, but honestly, when I found you I couldn't follow you enough. Everywhere you go, you have an incredible YouTube channel. You're going live, you're helping founders everywhere. I just feel so honored and blessed to know you as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, no, thank you very much. Because I, uh, remember when I got your message, I was like, am I dreaming? Because I've been listening to your show and in fact, when the theme tune starts, sometimes I listen to the podcast a lot when I'm on the move and I do a bit of, you know, dancing in the background on the train. And now I get to do it on stage. Exactly.

Speaker A: I think that's one of the reasons I picked that little number. Know, just. It just gets everybody light up and ready. And I've had folks say that their pets are dancing to it, their kids dance to it. It's so wonderful. Well, thank you for joining me on the 250th episode. I started this show three years ago and Covid locked everybody down. And it became real important to me to amplify diverse founders voices. Right. And just really show what founders are going through and tell their stories while edutaining folks around the world. And I just couldn't think of a better way to celebrate this episode than with someone like you, who's so seasoned, who has tremendous experience and listeners and viewers. We're going to pop all the visuals up on the screen and all the links so you can see how Nylie serves founders everywhere she goes. But let's, let's get started. First of all, where are you hailing from today?

Speaker B: So today I'm in Madrid, normally, uh, from the UK in Cambridge. So what I do, I split my time between, between Cambridge and Madrid, depending on the time of the year. So I've got another three weeks in Madrid before, um, moving to, going back to Cambridge for a while.

Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. And that's Cambridge uk, folks. Not to be confused with the Cambridge down the road for me here in Boston. That's wonderful. And that's the beauty of founderhood, right? You can do your business anywhere. You glow and I love that. So let's talk about your founder journey. I mean, you had a proven track record in the tech industry, and I'm curious, priests, as to why you would leave that career trajectory and the paycheck and benefits behind to launch out in your own ship. Share with us how that happened.

Speaker B: I think it was just meant to be. I think I got to the point where everybody, when a lot of people in my community in Cambridge knew me as the woman who can just do Whatever, just tell her, ask her and she will find the answers. And I remember when I got my, before I starting with my business, my, the, my boss, the CEO who hired me on the first day asked me, why are you working here and not having, why don't you have your own business? And that was kind of strange because I was wondering, I'm not ready yet. You know, I don't have a product, I have an idea, I'm not ready. And the same question was asked to me the same year three times. And after the third time I thought, why am I not running my own business? And I guess what I saw was that I've always had a mindset of um, fixing things or getting things done, working in the community, helping and improving myself. I always believe in gamifying your own life. So if there's a part of me that I wanted to improve, whether it was to get out of uh, extreme social anxiety. When I was younger, learning how to speak in public leadership, I always found a project in the community, something where I can give back. And whilst I'm giving back, I'm also learning the skill sets. And for that it kind of really helped me to move forward. And, and the second part was for me the mindset of being an entrepreneur in full time work. So I worked in companies where whenever there was an issue, a problem, I just don't go by the manual or this is my job title. I was still an engineer when we started launching bigger and bigger projects and we didn't have a project manager. And imagine we kind of doing a digital transformation for our product which was also digital but we were moving into the tablet world. So it was a massive project and we had themes in, in the us, in the UK and in India, yet there was nobody that was coordinating what we were doing. And I believe in having fun at work. It's hard, yes, but if work is not my workplace playground, I'm not interested in staying. But before leaving, is there anything I can do to fix it? So that's why I kind of went to my, my, my boss and I said we need to have some kind of continuous development. Right? I'm going to take care, um, of that. I'm going to set something up and I monitor that. Uh, we need to improve how we communicate. We don't have slack. What tools do we have? Then I set something up. We need to do xyz. And that's eventually how they realize, wow, okay, we working better together. Do you want to continue leading this program? And um, that's how we really started this idea of just jump in. And I continue to do that as well until when we start working with people in China, in France, in Germany, that the program was so large yet we didn't have a program manager. Uh, the man that was meant to run it was my boss's boss who was also. He had a lot of things to do because he was running so many departments. So I went to him and he said, I know what you, you know, I know you know what I'm going to ask you, but we need someone to be on top of this because the reporting structure has changed. Before when I had issues, I could come to you and you tell people to do things. Now we have to go to a completely different branch of the organization. They have different timelines, different deadlines. We need to build on the relationship and not just expect them to do as we need it for our part of the project. So I took that over and after doing that for a while I thought, uh, this is really exciting. I bet there are people out there that really need that support even more than large organizations. And that's when I started looking at scale ups and startups and I jumped into this world and just fell in love with it. And I'm here until now.

Speaker A: Oh boy. Especially. Well, first of all, thank you for sharing that wonderful background. And life is like that folks. Right? It takes us through this lived experience which so we can get deeper into our knowledge. And as Nayeli said, Niley said, you know, if work is not my playground, I'm out of here basically. Right. You know, so, and, and that a lot of times too, Nile, is why folks start a business is because they're not fully expressed, they need more and they come up against the constraints that a corporation has because it keeps them in that lane. Now I love the fact that you had, huh, there's the common theme with you, which is the solutionist, right? And so no wonder, no wonder you were led to startups and scale ups, right? Because boy, it's just a big playground of solution opportunities. So many problems. And I found in interviewing you, uh, know, the last 250 founders, that is a common thread, Nile, that founders are problem solvers. And I can tell you are like the queen of uh, I, I've never met a problem I didn't love.

Speaker B: Well, that's true. I mean if there's a problem, I'm in there.

Speaker A: Yeah, bring it on. I can just see, you know, the big matrix with his hand out going, come on, bring it on. And had you been exposed to entrepreneurship growing up, were you that person who was hustling product in third grade? You know what, how any example or was this completely new to you?

Speaker B: It's funny because my dad was an entrepreneur but of course at the time I didn't realize what entrepreneurship meant. He just had multiple jobs. He had this full time job working in banking and he always like oh, I've started this company on the side. And he used to travel a lot for work. But for me that was never a motivation because when I was young the idea of being around people seems to scare me. So the idea of being an entrepreneur and running my own business and being the face was like no way, no, I'm not doing that. I was so, I was so shy that and also I had social anxiety. So when I go on a bus or in public, in public places, I won't maintain eye contact. I feel the pressure of humans around me. And so that was just a no go. But one thing for me that was the trigger and really helped me develop that um, mindset in terms of entrepreneurship over the years was when I turned 17 and I went to the library because me reading has been my life and I finished a collection of Agatha Christie in the library. So I thought let me find something else. And I stopped by a book that asked are ah, you happy? And at the time I wasn't really happy because I didn't know what I wanted to do with m my future moved in a new country and um, trying to settle and things were not. I didn't really have many friends for obvious reasons because I can't even talk to people. But I think that really started um, me learning about self help and self development. And one of the starting listening to people like Jim Rollins and the likes of and one thing that stuck with me was action. You might not be where you want to be but if you don't take any actions you won't work. So that's when I started really going to volunteering uh, at ymca, uh, to learn how to speak, to speak to people. And what's funny, when I started I was in union when I got my degree as a software engineer and I was working engineering. One of the things I kept on doing was volunteering. So when you say entrepreneur as such I wasn't really making any money but I've been an entrepreneur for many years because I will go and run organization and I'll get paid for that. So you have your full time job. That's really stressful. Then I was for example in 2017 I was president of a nonprofit called UM Junior Chamber International. We lost a lot of members. We only had two people and I grew that to about 20 plus volunteers. We made money, we won a lot of awards. We, we created projects. But to do that you have to have marketing. You have to know how to lead a team of people that you can't fire because they are volunteers. So you need to find out what fires them, what do they like, and create projects around that so that we can help the community and they get to learn. We were even putting a theater show just for the sake of it, which was a massive learning curve for me and to grow as a person. So we did a lot of, um, I did a lot of those kind of things where I would join a charity and says, okay, what do you need more? Marketing. I learned a lot of marketing that way. Um, I learned sales, you know, going to conference.

Speaker A: Yeah. And how to raise money because, you know, you had to do that. You had to learn how to herd the cats because that's volunteers. Oh, that is a wonderful piece of advice for anyone who's sitting on the fence about entrepreneurship when you're doing, go do some volunteer work. See all the parts and pieces there, get comfortable with that level of uncertainty that one always experiences in the volunteer network area. And then, you know, we'll test the waters. And also you brought up something that's so important and that is side hustling is okay, folks. There's this mythology out there with entrepreneurship saying that you've got to burn the bridges and the boats and you know, do it all. And no, you do not. You can, you need to keep food in your tummy, a roof over your head. You can slow grow your business as a side hustle. Test it out, make some mistakes, get the beta worked out. What are your thoughts about side hustles? Nile?

Speaker B: I think it's, I think it's the best way to start. If you, some people might not be comfortable with the level of risks, especially when you just jump out. But you know, it takes a lot of time for your ideas to grow and emerge. Especially if you don't have an idea as concrete to when you start, you will start testing, you'll make mistakes, um, and a lot of things will happen. If having the comfort of a full time job helps you go for that. And you know, if you have an idea and you can monetize it, especially right now, imagine how easy it is to create a landing page, a website, start promoting your ideas, whether you don't even have a website and you promote it on Instagram. There's so many ways where you can start a side hustle. It doesn't mean that you have to make millions, remove the concept of unicorns out of your head. The most important is not to stay in one place, is to, to start somewhere, move. And if you like it, great. If you don't like it, oh, well, you know, you played a bit, you had fun. So that's also important.

Speaker A: That is so key. And folks, you know, you can create a perfectly fine MVP using Wix or, you know, any kind of landing page. You can duct tape your technology together. You can do all sorts of things. Because the most important thing is it not being perfect. The most important thing is you start getting feedback from people because it's your customers who are going to create the brilliance of behind your product. Right, Nailey?

Speaker B: Yes, exactly. And if you start as you even as a side hustle, but um, and you kind of focus on that, it's great. And actually one point to piggyback on what you say and is even if you're going to have a side hustle, do think as an entrepreneur. Don't think as is just a side hustle because the moment you have those thoughts of it's just inside hustle in your brain, you won't really think about what is it that I'm doing, prioritizing. Don't, um, just build, build, build, but go out and test with clients as soon as you can. Because I've seen a lot of people who have a side hustle and will create maybe a platform because they're doing it on the side, whereas as you said, they could have done it quicker, have a very, very high level proof of concept and start getting feedback quicker. So whether it's a side hustle or not, the important thing is, is you are the entrepreneur. And what do you need to validate your idea to speak to clients and see where this is going to go.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh. And you know, folks, I've got, I've got like a combo and delicious moment with stitch set on a pillow. But I'll go with Stitch that on a pillow for right now. Build, build. Don't just build, build, build. Go out and talk to your customers. Yes. You know, that has to be right there on that pillow, on that couch or wherever you want to pull it to remind yourself. Because especially for our tech founders and entrepreneurs, it's so easy to be enamored by your product and making it better and doing all sorts of goodies. And what would customers know? You know, there's that wonderful again, it's a meme of Henry Ford here in the US saying, well, if I had gone with what my customers said, I would have built a faster horse. You know what, that's great. I mean, he was very innovative. Right. He was coming out with something people didn't know they needed, a car. Uh, but in most cases, your customers are going to be able to give you features that you would never have thought for your, your product. Right, Nile?

Speaker B: Yes, yes. And I think I agree in a way I understand what, what, um, Harry, Harry Ford said, because we can also relate with, um, Apple when they came out with the ipod and iPhone, uh, and all of those kind of things. But I still believe that even if they, there is, there is a point where you have to talk to customers. Even when they had horses, they had to talk to customers to understand what was wrong with the horses. And when are we going to bring the roads, how are we going to set up the road? And what does it actually mean for a car to drive if we don't have proper roads? And, you know, all of those kind of things would have come about. So the quote is beautiful, but right now, most of the things have already been done. We're just doing them better. Yes, we are still innovating, but within the framework of things that already exist. And at the end of the day, your product is meant to improve other people's lives. It's not just software for the sake of it.

Speaker A: Right, okay. Software instead of SaaS, software as a service, it's software for the sake of it. I, um, could see an acronym,

Speaker B: But,

Speaker A: you know, and that happens a lot. And the older, if you build it, they will come, all of that stuff, you know, and this is why, folks, you gotta, you know, think about and reach out to Nylie. Here's a wonderful screen for those in the podcast. I've just put up this wonderful, uh, screenshot here saying startups one to one tech product mentoring sessions apply. Now go to Athena Leaders, that's a T H e n a L e a D e r s.com and find out more about how Nile can help you. Because look, did you see? She, uh, she went right away, even with the Henry Ford and the horses. She's like, but what is the problem in what she went, right? Fix the problems they were having. You want this kind of brain looking at your business and supporting you folks. It's just so important for you to win. It's how you win when someone can not just coach and teach you, but believe in you as well. So. And uh, all the links for, for Natalie's work in the world will be in the show notes, but also I'm just going to keep pulling up, you know, for example here, you know, sign up to her one to one tech and product mentoring sessions. All of that will be in the show notes for listeners and viewers. Okay? Be sure to do this. This is who you want as a coach, because as you can hear, Natalie has nailed the mindset, but also she is a tech goddess. Okay. And I love how you use the word scale ups instead of startups, of course, but scale ups, if you want to scale, you need support. So let's talk about your founder journey just a little more and then we'll talk about how you serve the world and, and that is share with folks the struggles that you've had, even the brilliant problem solver that you are and solution lover that you are. Um, what are some of the wins and fails that you've had and navigating the murky waters of startup life, especially when you experienced what all founders experience, which is zero evidence to move forward with what you're doing. Please inspire us.

Speaker B: Yes. Uh, I mean, it's, it's kind of weird because sometimes I ask myself, knowing what I've known, and I'm, um, not even gonna say the tears because there's no point even talking about things. I talk about the number of tissues on the floor right. Over the last few years, would I do it again? And the answer is yes. But of course, you know, honestly, being a founder is hard, especially a solo founder. And one of the biggest, I wouldn't say you failed by one of the biggest challenges is that I underestimated what it means to start a business and move in another country or doing half and half another country. And of course I was locked down in different countries where you don't have your support system and you're trying to run a business. So I think for me, my first fail that really, really hit me as a slap on the face. Especially I realized that during COVID was to be so in love with the process projects you're currently working on, um, that you forget to look for other clients. Now I knew that looking for client was, was important and of course I was doing a little bit of marketing, but at the time, it was at the beginning of my journey and I always, I'm, um, really honest about that. Marketing for me is like a black art. Uh, I would rather be in a room with engineers that talk about blockchain or things or things that don't. I can't even cold but that I feel like it's my world when it starts, uh, to talk about analytics and metrics for this and that and post here and there. I just, it wasn't, it wasn't for me. And again, the other thing, as I've mentioned, although now I'm public, uh, facing, I really struggle with the idea of me being the lead of my own company and my face out there. So for me, the first mistake was not looking, uh, for a client because I had a really long, nice, long contract. I was working with them. I was passionate. Every working moment was about what they need, what the team needs, how to go into products and all of that. But I forgot to think about the feedback. Right. So. And that's just when your, your. My business is also caring for other people's businesses because you have many kids and you also need to remember that your own kid is important. So that was one of my, my lessons. Um, the other one.

Speaker A: Sorry. M. No, no, no, that's great. I'm just. I was about to do a nandylicious moment on that. Because here's the thing, Nailie, is that especially as a solopreneur, you get that one great client, they're paying you oodles of money, but guess what, you still have to spend a third of your time marketing for those future clients or and as you're onboarding some other babies, as you were saying, you need to nurture them along. And it's not just that one big client. And I know there's been so many heartaches for, you know, every founder journey when that one big client moves on. And now you're like, oh my God, I didn't prepare the soil for when that client harvested and we were done. And so that's why you need to diversify your portfolio as a service provider. What else did you learn along the way? Was there a win that you had that just made. It just solidified everything for you?

Speaker B: For me, my wins again associated with other people's babies. My win is really when I, um, especially when the first time I worked from, I had a non technical founder that came to me and says, I've got this idea for a HR slash recruitment SaaS I'm building, but I have no idea how to do the development work. I've got a team that will do the coding and I need someone that can help me. And he gave me one page of a four of requirements and so that was what I was meant to pass on. The other team. And I asked him, do you realize that it's one page? The development M team won't be able to work on this. He says, this is why I need to work with you. Because every time I ask him, can you please give me, um, how are we going to do xyz? He always gives me one page of a four. So then I realized that no, this is not gonna work. So we had to sit together. I used to do a lot of interview, asking a lot of questions. And then when he sees the, the pages that I create and then write the requirements, the user stories for developers is like, wow, there's no way I would have done that on my own. And he loved the fact that even though we had an outsourced team that will do the development and everything, there was someone he could trust at a high level that would say no to him because he again, as a non technical founder is his first time. Um, he loves all of the beautiful dashboards. You know, when you go online, did you love the application? Everything looks great. It look, looks at the matrix. Oh, for our MVP, we're going to have 20, 20 charts. I'm like, no, we're not going to have 20 charts. It's not, we cannot, we don't have the money for that. How hard is it? Okay, let's sit down and do 10. And if you can just go through me asking you question for least a day, just on charts, that's not even the coding, just the question for understanding why and how we're going to do it. Um, that was a learning journey for him and seeing his face change, seeing how working with me, he appreciate and understand the pain and the difficulty of building software from the other side. Seeing him grow as a founder as well, in terms of every time he had a feature before I could ask him the question, he would repeat the question that I used to ask him. And now he was thinking about that, which was making my job easier. But I could see the evolution, you know, from being completely in the dark and shooting for the stars. But now still shooting for the stars, but being also realistic in terms of what's our Runway, um, how much do we want to develop this? What can we do very quickly? Are we going out there and testing more than we are actually building? Are we making sure that our engineers, although they are outsourced, they feel part of the team and we have this way of connecting, we're working remotely. What does it mean to work better with all of us in different countries? Um, yes. So for me, that was a big win where you feel like, yes, my job has a purpose in someone's life because I'm going to move on from them eventually. But everything is learned from me will make it start up a lot better and you will bring on more people and hopefully they will continue working hard but still having a sense of playground, um, and really being passionate about what they're doing.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh, you must have like a non tech founder fan club. I mean those questions, and if you're a non tech founder, you better write those questions down because those are outstanding standing and I feel the passion that you and the pure joy, Nile, that you had watching this founder transform because you knew they had it in them. They just didn't know. And the biggest thing I've learned over 250 episodes, what everybody says is I didn't know what I didn't know. I had an idea, I knew there was a problem people were having, I wanted to solve it. I had no idea. And there you were taking a non tech founder and helping them evolve, helping them understand that yes, eventually they're going to hire a CTO or VP of technology, whatever that looks like. But initially founders you got to know at least how to lead and manage people in your tech group. And that's what you helped him do. You helped him build such a core skill set, uh, for founderhood. Oh my gosh. Thank you again. I'm just going to put up the, um, the artwork here folks, to the tech and product catalyst, but also join and reach out to Nile. You know, the last Friday of every month, 9am to 12pm, she's got this free. You, uh, know startups 101 tech product mentoring sessions. Come on, apply now. Go to athenaleaders.com and meet some of the advisors that Nilee has and talk about this slide. Oh, this is going to be when we talk about your podcast. I have so many things to share about Nilee. I just, I gotta. So how long have you been at this now, Nilee, on your own?

Speaker B: Uh, it's been four years as of last week. Yes, bravo.

Speaker A: I did the clappers, everybody. Um, congratulations. So you too are in the early stages of your own business in helping folks out and I just wanted to throw that in as a little reminder to folks that please don't think you should be further along in 250 episodes. That's the other thing I've learned. So many founders just were ashamed that they weren't for further along. It is a 10 year game. I don't care what Anybody tells you you might be able to, you know, someone might come along and say we want to buy you because you're ideal, wonderful. But more if you are really building to scale up it is seven years is when you're going to go okay, now I see how the scale up hat can really happen and it takes that time. So don't beat yourselves up. Right Niley?

Speaker B: Oh, I uh, love what you've said because going back to the, the fails or the, the lessons I've learned on my journey, what you said was entirely true. Bearing in mind that uh, in a way I, when I started my business I told I'm gonna give myself five years because five years is one of the metrics. More startups or small companies die in five years. I'm like okay, if I can get to five years I'm all right. And I also knew from anything I've read from everything that I do that it takes a long time but it's one thing knowing and the other thing being in there. When you have the pressure of everything, pressure of life, pressure of money, pressure of even your friends and loved ones, they do mean well. But whenever they ask you the question of oh well if it's not working or even you know, at this stage you want to be, why don't you just go back to xyz? Um, so for me was what I learned was take your time and don't be, don't be worried about pivoting as well because there was different ideas that I started with when I started my business and compared to where I am now I feel like yes, I ah finally nailed the, that little piece of that niche let's say where my skill set can be, can be powerful because initially I was thinking because I do also operation and that's the hardest part because I do operation and take and I wanted to do more in terms of the operations one but every time I was talking about these people say but you also do tech. What about you bring the two and you have especially non technical founders navigate their way. They need to know, they need to be prepared for so many different things that they don't know. And there's a lot of gaps in their knowledge. There's a lot of issues that they face. They hire developers that run away with their money or maybe they had a contract or maybe they expecting certain things features but the requirements were written in a way that they got something else because there was never any demos. You start working B2B for example and you assume that the sales cycle will be Quick until they tell you that it takes a while for them to do a technical due diligence, start asking you about your platform, how you built it, but you don't know because you've outsourced that and there's no documentations. Or they start asking you for things that we need extra data to bring to your platform integration. Oh, well, we're not going to integrate with you until six months from now, so you're not even getting, making any money. And the problem that I've seen time and time again, all of those happen along the journey, which again is understandable, right? As a founder, there's so much we have to learn even from our own experience. But if there was a way where people can be aware and slowly work with that or work through that as different milestones. So it's not about being overwhelmed and doing everything at once, but it's about knowing what you don't know, having them on a dashboard somewhere and slowly work through that. And I think this is something that I also had to do on my own in terms of building a business and one funny story and already, uh, share that as well. I don't know whether, because it's like I said, women love to underestimate ourselves. So I always love sharing that. There's also the perception, as you've mentioned, that growing quickly is what you need to do. So for me, after two years when I felt like I need to kind of change direction on my business, which meant completely redoing my website, the messaging and everything, and I felt like it's been two years, you know, and what do I have to show from that? Um, now that I'm taking this new direction, I need to rebuild connections into this new world. I'm going into what's going to happen and all of those questions. And the second problem that I have is the mentality of, um, I'm not a. Obviously I'm not building a product per se, but it doesn't mean that I'm not a founder or I'm not a. I don't own my own business. And I know it makes, it's a bit of a difference because whenever you talk to people and someone runs a smaller business compared to having a product, even in networking events, there's this perception that a business or a founder was a startup is only if you have a, if it's uh, a product like software. But I felt like that mindset really stopped me from taking certain decisions that I would have taken right at the earlier stage of my business, especially when I was trying to figure everything out, figure the marketing, the sales, all of that. I knew there were some accelerators and all of that, but I never applied to them because in my mind I wasn't the founder. And then it's only I think a couple last year really when I started talking to other people and uh, about that thing that says, but why not? I'm like, well it's because, you know, I don't really have a product per se. I'm a service based and I have startups, so I work with SMEs as well, but mostly startups and everything. And it says, yeah, but it doesn't mean that you cannot apply to certain things. It goes back to assumptions.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: When I work with my client, I push on assumptions, but I didn't even challenge the assumptions I was making myself. So I think that mindset, uh, for me is the book that says what would uh, help you to get to a point. You need to let that go. To move forward is also part of the journey of running your own business. There is always things that you don't see and that's why you need to be surrounded by people that point them out and says, why are you doing this? Why do you believe that's okay? You shouldn't be doing this.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh, I'm definitely having an andylicious moment. For so many reasons. The one you just made, the point you just made, which is have that board of advisors, they can be personal advisors or professional advisors or a mix. But the folks who can point out going, uh, excuse me Nile, uh, you're a pro and you're a founder and you're this. And the second point is that transition, everyone from employee mindset to owner, business owner, founder, leader, is huge. And because you are rewarded for however long you worked as an employee, you're rewarded in certain ways that indoctrinated you to look around and say, and keep looking for that. When you're a founder, you have to step into your authority. You have to learn how to wear the mantle of your role now as ah, leader, as owner of the business and the buck stops with me and making all those decisions and giving yourself grace during really hard times, it is a tough transition. So lighten up on yourselves and listen to what Nilee just shared. It process, it is an evolution and, and sometimes it does take and thank you for being so, um, honest about that, Nile. That transition and evolution can take time again due to the indoctrination of always thinking about as an employee versus your new role. As founder, uh, I love that something fierce. Can you please talk about this incredible program, the tech and product catalyst for startup founders and investors. Build and launch quicker. Assess your startup's technical debt sales through tech due diligence. Oh, I love that. Support struggling portfolio, close and manage more clients. Improve startups. Maturity level. And I want you to talk a little bit of. What do you mean maturity level? Please share how you serve the world with this phenomenal program. Everybody, all the links are in the show notes but I'll put the banner up as well for this. It's, it's, you know, athenaleaders.com backslash tech and product catalyst. Go ahead Nile, give it to us.

Speaker B: So as I was talking about even uh, earlier about the, the evolution of um, of my business business, I've been working a lot, especially doing a lot of advising and sometimes I work with the team, with teams to, to help them to, to grow, to build a product and lead teams and all of that kind of stuff, which I absolutely love. But one thing I noticed there's always been a lot of questions for me when people come and they ask me certain questions about oh, um, I'm working on this and I'm doing XYZ and for me I'm like, but why are you doing it this way? I'm um, going to launch a pilots and I've got like saying to someone who was launching a pilot for the first time and he, he had about five or just five or six customers in different time zone and we're talking about, he was based in Europe. One client was in uh, in the us another in Latin America. Another, um, was in China. So for me my brain just went, how many are you in your team? Why are you launching a pilot with so many things? Because I could see the details of how to run a pilot. But uh, not just because a lot of people, when they think about pilot, I'm running a pilot, I'm testing my platform and everything when I think about pilot is I'm running the pilot with testing. Yes, but we also using this as an opportunity to retain this client for the future. So you need to nail it and more importantly have enough data that you will also use to start looking for other clients. So that's again going back to how I was burned in the past. I've learned my lesson. So I felt like a lot of those kind of details really stop startups, especially at the point where you've already got some product. It doesn't have to be perfect, but it's enough to start Onboarding clients. But one of the biggest challenges that really slow things down is getting to that point and knowing that on one hand you will have to start asking for more investments, uh, to grow. But you're not prepared in terms of what kind of question you will have, especially technical side when you're gonna face investors. You want to get more clients. B2C in a way might not be that, uh, that bad in terms of getting ready from a technology perspective, but B2B, yes. Depending on some clients, the larger they are, the more they feel, you know, corporate feelings to them.

Speaker A: Right.

Speaker B: There are certain things that they will ask you, there are things that they will want to see. You know, people talk about ip, it's my idea. Great. But if you're using open source software, what is the impact that having doubt will have on your product when you bring in investors and looking at your IP and also with customer, especially B2B when they start looking at data and data moving from platform to platforms. So those are, those are things again, you know, when I sit with someone I will ask that question and then they start frantically writing. I'm like, okay, I thought people knew about this because again it goes back to, I've ah, been in that world for so long and you make assumptions that other people also know. So I thought there's a lot of people who get to that point and slow down. Right? How can I help? How can I work with them? Do an assessment of the organization. Look at the way that they built the team. So whether you've outsourced and you're worried about bringing it in house, should you even bring it in house? Why do you want to bring it in house? What does it mean in terms of cost? Looking at the technical debts and people think about the technical debt, pretty much everything that is slowing you from building faster and launching faster. So the questions there becomes again I go, I always go to what I call the basics but they take time to do. So do you have the right documentations? Do you have the um, whatever server, whatever you have it sets up, is it going to scale or the other side, have you built a platform that you're spending a lot on server and capacities just in case you have a lot of people signing on, you don't want to have any ah, server issue, but it means that ah, even though you have low traffic, you're spending more money. So all of these kind of small things that you start thinking a little bit about the organization as you're growing. Should I bring any UX in house or Contract, should I bring a product manager, all of those kind of things. And I felt like if you look at it as a game, and that's why we start talking about the maturity level on a 1 to 10 all startup will start at 1. And as you are improving, especially in the technical departments and you are improving the way you handle your processes, you move faster, you're improving the leadership that you have internally, that helps to move faster. You're improving by understanding being more prepared to tackle pilot, to be more prepared to tackle clients. You get another point and that's how slowly you kind of grow. Um, ah, you improve your organization and,

Speaker A: and that leads you to the maturity. And you know, I got to tell you, I know from again interviewing 250 folks, uh, founders, but also with the monthly pitch event I co hosted here in Boston for three years, this like, you are answering so many questions and you're asking so many great questions that I know non tech as well as tech founders are sitting there taking notes right now because. And those who like to sit on the sidelines and watch this whole entrepreneurship go on, you see how complicated it gets. I mean, when you, next time you look at an app, think about this, okay? Because that technology, you know, you can have a great idea, but pulling those parts and pieces and getting it all launched and having it work right, and the whole technical development part so that you can scale up. Oh, Nylie, you are just the gift that keeps on giving. Talk to us about your podcast, because I love your podcast. It's called the Mary Poppins of startups. Show and talk about how you developed this idea and what you're gaining from having been a podcast host.

Speaker B: Yes. Um, for me, the podcast was the answers to one question or one thing that I said over and over and again. I really do not like marketing, but I need marketing to grow. My business is a fundamental part of a business to grow. And the problem that I have with marketing is not the whole thing. It's social media. I don't like social media. And when I finally hired someone to handle my social media for me, we had a lot of calls. She says, oh, Nelly, you need to record more videos. I'm like, yeah, but I, I was a bit camera shy at the time. I don't really like cameras. Yeah, but you need to, because it's, it's important. I need content for xyz. I'm like, yeah, but you know, sitting down and thinking about things and writing that one line or whatever is, it's really not for me. I love to Jump in, right? Jumping with my soul and really do something. Working with people. But, you know, how do I translate into marketing? So then I. I used to listen to a lot of podcasts and I thought one thing that I know really fires me up is when I have a conversation with someone, right? When I talk to people, I can forget about myself. I can forget about the fact that at the end of the day is one aspect of marketing and as a strategy is a way of creating more pieces of content. And I said, this is perfect. We went back to this idea of problem solving. And for me, it's always the same. Marketing as, ah, writing social media posts is not fun for me. It's not a playground. It's like work, work, work. How do I translate that or convert that into a playground? Having a podcast. And that is why I started the podcast, because it means that I can show up live. I prepare whatever content I'm going to have. At the beginning, I didn't have any guests because I wanted to evolve as a speaker. Again, going back to the idea of mvp, the graphics were completely different than the graphics that we have now. I, for me was just as long as I can grow and mature in this, I, um, will do that and eventually start bringing guests, finding my flow to where I am, and still continue to improve. But what it means for us, and again, one of the reasons we go live is because it cuts down on the overthinking and the perfectionism tendency. When you go live, that's it, you've made a mistake. Oh, tough luck. Improve next time.

Speaker A: Yeah, exactly. There's no editing. I love that feature of going live. It's one and done. It focuses you to. Forces you to be in the moment, which I really love. And, uh, but you're right, we'll fix that next time. It takes that perfectionism away. And perfectionism is the death of creativity, folks. Most importantly, I hope founders take this in, especially the service provider founders. Podcasts are a great way to incorporate and make it easy, make it a playground for content generation. Words of wisdom will come out of your mouth that could be turned into quotes and shared as memes. You know, you're able to give your content people, your digital marketing folks so much to work with. Your guest quotes, the conversation, snapshots, video snippets, audiograms, everything from the conversation that can be posted in multiple ways for years to come. So smart. I'm gonna have the links to, to the show because also you have great conversations and you can join nylie live on YouTube every Wednesday at 1230 GMT. So I think we're a five hour difference. Right. So that would be 7:30 here on the east coast and y' all on the west coast. You're going to catch the recording.

Speaker B: Yes, please. Don't want you to get out of bed at that time on YouTube and other platforms.

Speaker A: Yeah. And folks, you know, if you do want to launch a podcast, you know, I've got the best person for you, Bethany Hawkins from Crackers in the Soup. I'll have her links anytime you want to. She's, she's great to hold your hands and help you get that podcast launched because it is a great marketing tool and a great way to build a funnel for a business. Thank you for that so much. And talk a little bit here about free one. Oh, go ahead.

Speaker B: One more thing about the, um, podcast as a marketing tool for those who might think it might never work. For me, you need to know why you're having a podcast. And for me it was always about, uh, conversations, about motivating myself about content and also helping me on LinkedIn and improve my visibility. It was never, never about the numbers game. Of course, I would love to scale and get more followers and all of that. This is coming as the second part after my mvp. This is, this is what I'm going to focus next.

Speaker A: This is brand awareness. It's brilliant. Brand.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And in fact, I was offered, um, to speak at South Summit, which is one of the biggest startup conference in, uh, Europe, South Europe. And that's based on, in Madrid. And I just send a message and say, hey, um, I want to follow. I speak French, I speak English, I speak Spanish. Can I just come and volunteer the conference? I just wanted to get in and they said, oh, we looked at your podcast. Do you want to come and speak for us? You want to come and moderate panels and stuff because you know how to ask questions to people. And I'm like, really? But you never really spoke to me directly. They just went on my podcast, watch a few episodes and says she's the woman. And someone else invited me to go to New York as a keynote speaker for a conference in September. And it was exactly the same. And she says, o, we've been following you on LinkedIn. We've been, we love your content, we love your podcast. And I'm like, oh, okay. And what do you want me to talk about? Oh, we're not worried about that. Just give us a few ideas. Okay, great. And for me, again, it's kind of what is your strength, you know, you cannot be everybody that you see on social media. You cannot market like them. Do what makes you happy. Because for me, when I'm live and especially when I'm talking to people, especially right now, Andy, I feel alive and I'm connecting and that resonates with other people. So find what works for you. And especially podcasting is such a great way to do that.

Speaker A: It is. And I guess I got to do another stitch that on a pillow moment for. Is it a playground? Seriously, if you are having to work really hard at something and it hurts your stomach, that is something that you need to outsource and stay in your playground. Okay? It does not need to be hard. All right? Can be complicated, it can be sometimes confusing, but it has to be in your playground. And I really haven't ever heard that word used. Nile. To help everybody remember to stay in their sweet spot where their magic is their ikigai and let others do the stuff that feels really heavy and like work. And so I'm so happy you found the podcast to help relieve on that. And please talk about these free tools, tools, training and more@athenaleaders.com backslash toolkit yes,

Speaker B: uh, we love to give, give, give. So we have um, a lot of um, material out there. PDF you got training especially on personality types and this can how that will help you to make a better leaders. Because of some of the issues I've seen in teams is not understanding the words or the way people think. One of the one that's um, especially the 90 day guides releasing delayed and tracking product pretty much a day by day or week by week. Um, um, document that can help you to go through. What is it that I need to focus on if I'm not launching. Right. Like I've said, it goes back to this idea of is this the team, is it the product, is it the processes? But I'm giving it to you. And of course because I've got the podcast, there's a lot of links where now that you have the guide and you might not be sure, head to the podcast, uh, type something about product or look at the product playlist that I have and you will actually see me going through more details onto that as well. Um, and we're also putting together a platform of where I'm going to put the best of the all of the episodes, cut them down in the path that I know really provide a lot of value and you can go and sign up onto that platform and then just uh, watch what you need to watch based on the challenges that you are having at the moment. Yeah.

Speaker A: And I really love this. The 90 day guide to releasing delayed and struggling products. Come on, everybody knows what that is. And then she has the ultimate startup guide, how to increase hybrid working productivity. You know, you're faced with that, folks. Uh, and Nile can help you. And she has these free tools and training and more. And of course, she's always on her podcast, making things happen and all. What does success look like for you, Nile? Is it a feeling? Is it an outcome? And how are you measuring your definition of success?

Speaker B: For me, um, am I playing? That's what success means to me. Um, am I still playing? And if I feel like I'm not playing, the question is why? And I think it's really important to know. When you're a founder, sometimes you get drawn to working long hours. It comes, you know, it's part of the territory. And people talk about work life balance. That's why I don't talk about work life balance. I talk about playground. Because it goes way more than just I'm working X number of hours. So for me, success means that I can look at my life in a holistic view and I'm happy about different parts of my life, whether it's community, what am I doing for my, for my community, my job, my. My, My company, my family, my personal life in sports, and, um, and all of that. And in fact, today, one of my. My success of today was that I actually did a deadlift with 103 kilos, which is the first time m. I managed to deadlift that much. And I felt like, oh, my God. That, to me was that morning.

Speaker A: And you deadlifted how much?

Speaker B: 103 kilos.

Speaker A: Uh, I don't know what that is in pounds, but I know it's big. That's amazing.

Speaker B: Amazing. Yes.

Speaker A: Uh, that's a win, and that's a goal you were able to achieve and had nothing to do with your business. So that's.

Speaker B: Exactly, exactly. And I think a lot of people say that if you run a business, you don't have time for sport. But for me, sport is what I need to channel my brain and to come to deal with the stress of work. And when I have a goal in sport. Pause. And when it. Whenever I'm tired, I'm thinking to myself, one more set. I'm just going to one more. Not even one more set is too much. One more rep. If I can do one more, one more. When I work and I'm exhausted or, um, I just feel like I can see what's happening when I remind myself all I need to do is one more action, one more thing, one more call, one more email. And more importantly, if you want to, let's say, lose weight or gain muscle mass, you don't look at the mirror every day to see whether the weight is gone or to see whether the master masters you got the masters you wanted. You just do the actions and trust in the channels and the process. And if things are not working well, you get a coach to help. And business is exactly the same. So for me, success is not just about reaching the destination, is making sure that as I'm evolving in my journey, I don't lose sight of the fact that despite the pain, I'm still having fun. I'm still days where I have to do my finances and that's not fun and other things, marketing, but I'm still present in the moment and really, um, helping my community and the startup community as well.

Speaker A: Oh boy, that's a quote right there. I love it. Nylie, you've nailed down the success metrics for yourself, both personally and professionally. Tell everybody how entrepreneurship has served you both personally and professionally.

Speaker B: For me, it's pretty much like, um, I finally arrived home and as I said before, I was kind of an entrepreneur who didn't know she was an entrepreneur because it was in the voluntary sector. And then I started my business and I saw myself as, this is exactly where I am. And, um, being an entrepreneur means that I don't have to pretend anymore to be someone that I'm not. At the end of the day, I'm the one that always love to think about issues and fix issues, um, to be action oriented, to motivate others. Being an entrepreneur helps me to be the true version, uh, of who I am. And the other thing, I go back to playground because I talk a lot about turning your life and your work into a playground. Being an entrepreneur helps me to play, to teach, because I also believe in growing with actions, right? So if I want to do as I preach, create a playground for yourself or for my clients, I have to show them first. So, for example, when I wanted to learn Spanish and I also wanted to start my business because I already started, I knew that I had to spend a lot of time in a Spanish speaking country because it means even if I can't attend classes because I'm too busy with work, being in the environment will force me to learn. And that's what I did. This is why I spent my time between Madrid and, uh, Cambridge so that I can practice my Spanish. And again, without being an entrepreneur, would I have had the opportunity? Maybe, maybe not. But I don't think I would have been fulfilled. So yes, it pretty much shaped my life.

Speaker A: Oh my gosh, this is so wonderful. I just, I am just so excited to share you, your story and your remarkable work with the uh, world Again, let folks know how they can reach you, how they connect, can connect with you. I'm going to have of course all the links in the show notes, but, you know, any last thoughts along with your CTA's calls to action?

Speaker B: Yes, well, uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. I'll say that's the, the platform I, I use the most in terms of social media and that's when I show up more. And um, if you find me Naomi McCanwell on LinkedIn and if you go on, on YouTube, of course, Athena Leaders or just put my name and you'll find my podcast. If you have any questions, I, I always answer. Sometimes I especially LinkedIn as a voice feature for those who don't know, only on your phone. So I use that to make it easier to respond and if it's something that takes a while, it becomes an inspiration for the podcast and then I let you have done that so you have even more content to serve you even if we're not in the same time zone. So don't worry about that. And one thing that um, I will definitely say for anyone who's struggling or I've mentioned a few things and you're thinking, where do I start? How do I start? Do remember that the last Friday of every every month we have a one to one startup, um, mentoring sessions. And of course we are thinking about having a second session so that we can hit those in on the um, west coast as well. So if that's an issue for you, send me a message and we'll sort you out as well. And for those who think that you want to spend a little bit more time to understand how I can help with the tech and product catalyst or you are part of an accelerator or you are an investors and thinking, oh my God, this is what we need. We need a bit of additional support on our programs or for our startups, on our portfolio or your safety startup. Well, let's have a chat and see what we can do.

Speaker A: Uh, who wouldn't want to work with this deliciousness?

Speaker B: Come on.

Speaker A: I mean, smarty pants tech goddess combined with understanding what startups need to scale and become successful. Successful. You're just, you're hitting all the buttons. Thank you. N for joining me for this delicious conversation. And thank you for sharing your gifts with the world and how you help founders everywhere. You glow. I'm so honored that you joined me on the 250th episode of the Startup Life show. I'm going to pop you into the green room and wrap ups, but don't go anywhere so I can give you a virtual hug, okay? Okay. Thank you so very much for joining me on the show for this important milestone, folks. Seriously, you know how I want you to get the support that you need to grow and glow and get through all those, the vicissitudes of startup life, that roller coaster ride, those problems that you think you'll never be able to solve. And then, you know, five months later you're like, oh, that was a piece of cake. I'm working on something even harder now. And you know, Nile is the person. You can go and watch her, uh, on Fridays and get that one on one mentor sesh, or you can listen to her podcast or watch her live there as well and ask questions, connect with her on LinkedIn. And I know investors. You know, your portfolio needs someone like Nile to help them. I, um, just want to mention that I has. It has just been such an honor that I have been able to have this opportunity to talk about startup life with you and so grateful that you joined in and tuned in for 250 episodes. And I'm so grateful for your time and your commitment to your startup. And I have to say, this is the last episode of the Startup Life show. That's right after 250 episodes, supporting diverse founders around the world with their startup journey. I'm off to a new founder journey myself. I'll be producing and hosting a human interest social impact podcast called your Ink Story. And these are going to be stories with folks about the body art that they choose to wear and using tattoo art as a way to highlight our common humanity. So often we're shown and pointed out how we're different. I want to help people see what we have in common. And I've always been fascinated by tattoos. I've always been the one who says, uh, would you be willing to tell me your ink story? And then usually I need tissues or I'm so inspired by their story. So that's what I'm going to be doing next. I am so grateful to have had this opportunity to serve you, edutain you and inspire you. And I know that if you need a good coach for your startup, um, I've left you in good hands. Right here with Nylie. Okay. And Athena Leaders to find out what I'm up to next and we're and follow this journey. This right now. This will be posting the last week in June of 2023. Hop on over to Instagram or LinkedIn where I'll be sharing the your inc stories far and wide. Please remember, always remember this, that you're braver than you believe and stronger than you seem. And as we say here in Boston, you are wicked smarter than you think. You've got this Founders. I believe in you and I'm gonna always be cheering wildly for you. Cheers, everyone.