Bex Smith on the Crux of women's football's ownership problem

Speaker A: Hello and welcome to the Sports Pro podcast. I'm Sam Karp, head of editorial at Sports Pro and um, the guest on this week's episode is Bex Smith. Smith captained the New Zealand women's football team at the World cup and Olympic Games, won German football's treble with Wolfsburg, and was nominated for FIFA's Women's Player of the Year in 2007 after a career cut short by injury. She has since gone on to hold several senior roles within the football industry, including managing FIFA's women's tournaments. Now she's a team owner through Crux Football, the multi club ownership group she launched last year with a specific focus on the women's game. I sat down with Smith at SportsPro London in April and over the next 30 minutes you'll hear why she decided to launch Crux, what convinced the group to acquire French side Montpellier and Sweden's FC Rosengard and um, where the company expects the money to come from over the coming years.

Speaker B: We also covered her views on the

Speaker A: multi club model in the women's game, whether closed leagues could work in Europe, and what Crux is looking for as it pursues further acquisition opportunities, including in markets like England.

Speaker B: You might also be interested to know

Speaker A: that Becks will be speaking at SportsPro's investment summit which takes place at the Minster Building in London on 21st of July. If you want to find out more about the event or indeed join us there on the day, all you need to do is visit the event website, which is invest.sportspro.com while you do that, let's get into the conversation. Here is Bex Smith.

Speaker B: Bex Smith, Chief Executive of Crocs Football. Thank, uh, you very much for joining us here at uh, Sports Pro London. Um, I've spoken to you several times over the years and you've held various different roles in that time. But why don't you just start by telling us a little bit about Crux? What's kind of the origin story there? What got you into the space?

Speaker C: Yeah, um, to your point, I've kind of been in loads of different places and spaces in football, starting from my playing career and playing internationally and domestic, uh, my whole career in Europe and seeing that the structures in Europe don't really work for women's football. I think when we look over in the US and we see clubs that are starting and purely focused focusing on the women's game and women's football fans and trying to build their audiences specifically shaped around just the women's football clubs, um, we've seen valuations go from the negatives to the latest uh, franchise fee now um, $205 million. That's before they've even paid one contract. So surely on the business side it works. But then we also see the quality of the football growing so quickly on the US side as well. And then over here in Europe where I've played my whole career and worked with FIFA or COPA 90 or worked in media or with my own sort of consulting company, seeing that we have some of the world's best players, I mean they are the world's best players if you look objectively on the rankings. World's best players, best leagues, um, best brands with the clubs that they play for. And yet we still can't get people into the stands, we still can't get commercial is lagging. And um, and we don't know who the fan bases are really. So um, for me it's not the fact that women's football doesn't work or it's not popular enough because we've seen plenty of examples of where it is when dedicated resources are put towards it. And so that's exactly what we're doing is pulling the women's clubs out of the men's where they normally get 5, 10% of the resources from the men's club and are heavily dependent on that and don't necessarily have focused resources and actually pulling them into an independent business structure where we develop um, a very player centric model looking at the team first but then also the team around the team. So we have our own for the first time in both Montpellier and FC Rosengard in Sweden. We have our own president of the club, we have our own media marketing, um, social media manager, legal, uh, finance. So they wake up every single day and all they focus on is the women's football club. And I think that's the key to driving the next growth of uh, our stage of growth in the European women's game. And then in order to make it more interesting, let's say for commercial partners, um, where the scale is what's important. So buying multiple clubs and really having um, an ecosystem where they all work together so you have a pan European offering to brands rather than just in Montpellier or in Sweden. And then also there's a big tech element and data element to what we're building. So um, Ted Knutson, one of my co founders, he founded StatsBomb, uh, which probably everyone has heard of if you've been in club football. Most of the Premier League teams use it for recruit um, player Recruitment and development. And we've built, ah, a women's specific tech platform. So, um, we can recruit players. And our whole model, like I said, is player centric. So we want to buy players that are great talent, um, good value, develop them from around 60% to 90% and send them on their way if that's where they want to go. Yeah, we're starting with two clubs looking at, um, scaling up until five and um, with our tech platform and our understanding of data around who the fan base is, uh, who the current fan base is and what the um, current, uh, let's say blockers of the fan base growth right now are, um, to get a really good understanding of that so that we can really expand our fan base not only in the regions where we bought the clubs in Montpellier and Malmo, but also in skne, which is the southern region, or in all of Sweden or in all of Scandinavia, ideally then into Europe and globally. So sorry, that was a long winded answer. Did I answer all of you?

Speaker B: We can end the interview there. That's great. I'm going to pick up on several of those points throughout this m. One thing I did want to ask about, actually. Have you ever been asked much about the name, uh, Crux? Because I always feel like there's an origin story for whenever there's a company that's found. When you think of Crux, you think about getting to the heart of something. Um, I don't know, maybe I've misread it, but. Yeah, what's the kind of origin story?

Speaker C: No, nailed it. Nailed it. Sam, you're good at this whole journalism.

Speaker B: Been digging it in on you.

Speaker C: Yeah, um, yeah, no, that is what it is, I think, um, you know, having been m A player and then really at the governance, you know, the governing body level with FIFA and then going into sort of media and storytelling, I just, I think I was just a little bit sick of the talk, you know, and I just really wanted to build something that has real legs, real foundations that I think will be genuinely helpful for the entire game of women's football in Europe. Um, because if we can change the structures and other people follow us and copy us, it only helps the women's game if we have more independent structures, more dedicated investment and resources just in the women's game. So it's really looking at, okay, what is, what is the crux of the issue and the problems that we have and face in European women's football. And it's not enough dedicated, like I said, investment and resources. So if we can Shape, change that structure and look to shape something that's new, then actually I think we can really start to develop, you know, push growth in that. And then interestingly, um, when I then picked the name Crux, I then sort of did some search and looked at what it was and it happens to be also the, um. Ah. What is it called? It happens also to be the Southern Cross constellation, which is on the uh, New Zealand flag, which obviously I'm half Kiwi, so it just ended up being. It was the Crux constellation that's literally on our. On our flag. So I was like, this is weird. Yeah, it's crazy. My, um. Actually one of my business, uh, partners, Nat, um, who does a lot of our media and storytelling and, and decks and is. It does an amazing job, she was the one that found it. She's like, did you know this when you picked it? And I was like, no, I didn't.

Speaker B: So it was like, should have owned it. Yeah, yeah, no, that's.

Speaker A: That's great.

Speaker B: And I think, um, yeah, we'll rewind a little bit as well, I guess, because Crux obviously was this own. It's less than in. Well, less than a year old in terms of the investment side of it, I think I'm right in saying it's obviously launched in. I think it was sort of August the first story started to come out about it. And then first, um, acquisition, as you mentioned, of Montpellier was in October, I believe, followed by Rosengards earlier this year. Um, and as you've kind of alluded to a few of them already, obviously investors with a real mix of backgrounds. You got, uh, former Netflix Vice president Cindy Holland, um, US Women's national team legend Judy Foudy, and then, uh, obviously within the executive team M as well, you've mentioned Ted Knutson as well, um, from the stats bomb days. Um, and then when you're sort of. You've mentioned looking at the five clubs that you're going to build, obviously two already. What are kind of, I guess some of the criteria that you're. That you're looking at when you're assessing opportunities across Europe at the moment. I, um, guess part of. I don't know how much of it's about what's available or are you being very quite intentional and like, you know, looking at specific criteria when you're, when

Speaker C: you're going after, ah, super intentional. When we're looking at which clubs, um, number one, they have to be in a great city that has a beach. No, I'm just kidding.

Speaker B: It helps Those.

Speaker C: You said that earlier though. You're like, oh, um, common thread. Yeah, but actually that does help. It's not like the main criteria, but the first one really is sort of the vibe and the spirit of the club already because I think culture is extremely important. So Montpellier is a very family oriented, ah, club. It was started by a family, um, Lulu and Colette, Nicolene, and it was passed down to their sons. So it was a family owned and the club really feels like a family. When I interviewed every single player in the club, I said, what do you like about the club? What should we change about the club? They all said it feels like a family, family vibe. And um, certainly them being 10 minutes from one of the, you know, a lovely beach on the south coast of France doesn't hurt. And Montpellier is a stunning city. If you haven't been there, you have to go, um, please come. Um, but it's also, you know, what are the. How, how do we do the carve out with the men's team? What are the current facilities? Montpellier has a gorgeous hub. It has eight pitches that are, um, natural and artificial turf. The girls have their dressing rooms, they have their players lounge, the coaches, the doctor's room, the, um, cafeter, the gym, everything is on one hub and they share that with the men's and the academy. Um, so it's just a nice kind of vibe and you get to see the other teams and also we get a nice view and we can see the other players coming up. So we already have a really clear view on some of our academy players who we really think can have a great lead, um, into the first team. So, um, also, how big can we build the fan base there? Does it have a good story? And both of the first two clubs have an incredible history in the women's games. So while FC Rosengard, if I were to walk out here and say, you know, FC Rosengard, maybe 5% might know it here, but in women's football, it's a very, very well known club, as you pointed out. Um, and so I think there's a history of it being women's first. Um, a lot of work with the community, a lot of using football for good to help children that are in, um, you know, areas of Malmo and Sweden that don't necessarily have a lot of funding to help, um, you know, use football to help them with their social skills and confidence and things like that. So it just has a really, really great history. Um, and then moving forward we're looking at clubs that we feel that we can Obviously buy low and develop that are sort of undervalued under resourced, but have a really great foundation, um, which is the first two clubs that we bought too. So.

Speaker B: Yeah. And um, you obviously mentioned sort of some of the reasons for those clubs in particular, but was there any reason that you started with those specific markets as well? Obviously, um, Sweden and fr. Was there anything that you saw, I suppose, within those leagues in particular that um, you know, emboldened you to kind of go in there first?

Speaker C: Yeah, it's a great, great question. So the French league, um, underwent a, uh, quite a significant governance change. So, um, I mentioned Lulu Nicolene, who started the club with his wife Colette. Um, he, he inspired Jean, uh, Michel Olas, who was the owner and founder of Olympique Lyon. Well now it's changed ohal. But, um, and he told me, he said, you know, Lulu inspired me. So around the same year they both started women's teams. Um, he then built that into an absolute empire. Olympic Lyon, you know, synonymous with the best club in Europe. Um, currently has the most titles in the Champions League. He then sold that club, um, and went into the FFF and was running the league for the women's. And then he has a number two, Andrea Koenig, who's unbelievably amazing and is really driving the commercial and um, like media growth of the league. He's already put money, uh, created another cup, um, he's created a club licensing system so that there's more money going directly into clubs as well. So he's really trying to commercialize the league in a heavy way. So while on the men's side, you know, there's a lot of talk about the media rights and it's, it's a disaster actually. On the women's side, it's, it's going like that, um, and has a clear path forward. And then in Sweden, um, I think Rosengart has been one of the biggest, best clubs, you know, in the women's game forever. But the Swedish League, um, and the Swedish League used to be the best one, um, back when, when I was playing in it. Which sounds like a dicky thing to say, but it's true. You know, that's when Marta was playing there, had a Mark Lund, sort of all the national team players were playing in Sweden. And then it's just sort of held and kind of declined slowly while the other leagues, like the German League, then became the best and then England has, you know, stepped up. So I think there's a, there's a real Potential that we can get the league back into, you know, really solid top three, um, league in Europe. And also you have all of Scandinavia, so a lot of the talent will come through Sweden, um, and then go on into Europe. Um, and FC Rosengard plays in the Champions League normally quite a lot. So they didn't. The year we bought the club, they actually were almost in relegation because they knew we were buying it and they potentially dumped a lot of players, which was super helpful. Um, but, yeah, I think that that development into, you know, back into Europe, um, is one where players know the club, so they know that there's a good brand there. Um, so I think that's important too. And I think when you look at Scandinavia, uh, those players have. And I played in Sweden and I speak Swedish, so it helps. But, um, they're great players, they have a great culture, they work very hard, they're physically and tactically very, very strong. Um, so Sweden actually exports the second number of players to the wsl. So you have English players and then Swedes, which is, you know, for a small country, pretty, pretty amazing. There's a lot playing in the US too. So they churn out really good talent. And we want to be in places and spaces where we can help develop the.

Speaker B: Deloitte recently released, uh, their study around, um, women's sport revenue. And there's obviously that breakdown is 46% commercial at the moment. Uh, this is on a global level, 31% match day and then 23% from broadcast. So when you look at it, and when I suppose you're doing your modeling at the moment, um, where are you sort of seeing that growth coming from? Where are you expecting it to come from in the leagues that you're investing

Speaker A: in and the team? Sorry.

Speaker C: Yeah. Well, I mean, broadcast, I think, is. It's sort of a flipped model from the men's game. I think men's is very heavily dependent on broadcast and media rights, on the women, much less. So there's some centralized distributions, but they don't tend to be the main drivers for clubs yet. So we know that that market's coming, you know, when it's coming, how it's coming. It's very complex because the TV cycles are, you know, three, four, 10 years out. So where do you slot women's football in? And I know here at the WSL, they're looking at maybe like the Saturday 3pm slot. So there's a lot of interesting conversations going on, but that's not really for us to drive and to lead. So we haven't really modeled that in as a massive upl because we can't control it, but that will be expanding. And then there's other ways to monetize content, because when you look at traditional women's football fans, they're very digitally native, um, so they live on digital channels. They have created shows on YouTube or Instagram or some of the other platforms. So I think fans are used to going to digital platforms to try to find women's football content or games. So there's a huge opportunity there to drive, um, Match day is a big one for us. So we've already 5x the number of fans that come to our home games in Montpellier. So we've owned the club for, what, five and a half months, you know, from the first match day where Adrian also was there with me, and one of the early ones where we were the only ones yelling and everyone was kind of looking at us like, what are these? Like, are they American? Like, who are these loud people to? Yeah, right. I'm like, no, I'm half Kiwi, please, um, these days. But the, uh, to Saturday night, where, you know, we had a relegation battle, uh, and we had, you know, hundreds of fans. We had the flags out, there was music playing nonstop, we had the flares, we had a famous actor sitting three rows behind me who, obviously, I didn't know who it was. Our mayor came to the game and it was loud, it was constant. And I literally get chills because the fans were so behind our players to the point where I'm, um, 100% sure that what we're doing and what we're building helped drive them over the line to win that game. And so I think the growth is super important on the match day. So doing all the right activations, making sure you understand the fan base through some of the data collecting that we're doing with our fan base, targeting the right fan base groups, um, to get them into the stadium and also to follow us online. So I think that's another one. And then the commercial partnerships is a really big one. We are spending a lot of time getting it right. So we haven't gone out to market and just grabbed every brand that's interested. We've had a lot of interest already from brands, which is very cool, and. And big brands, you know, global brands. I don't. There's not really very many platforms, if any, out there that are women's football across Europe, unless it's UEFA. And we know UEFA is expensive. It sometimes maybe has some red tape. It's a great Platform, but you know, can you do whatever you want? Is it super innovative? Not necessarily. Um, and that's where we want to sort of own that space.

Speaker B: I'm going to come back to the WSL because we've touched on a couple of times throughout this conversation. Um, I just wanted to ask specifically on that league because I imagine that's a, a very attractive market, but I suppose it's also the most, or one of the most commercially mature in Europe. Right. Which I guess potentially, um, makes the entry into that competition harder and you've also um, in terms of what you've been talking about and the dedicated resource is perhaps a little bit harder to uncouple some of those teams, uh, for example. And then another thing that we've seen in recent years is some of the men's teams selling, uh, their women's teams themselves, for example, which I imagine sort of of uh, inflating the market quite significantly, which makes it challenging for an organization like yourself to come in and do a deal in that environment.

Speaker A: Um,

Speaker B: I guess the kind of question is, how does, what's your sort of approach, what's your thoughts on sort of the English market at the moment? If you were to sort of come in here, does that maybe impact where you might be able to enter? You've spoken about, you know, buying loan. Would you maybe have to look a little bit further down the pyramid, for example?

Speaker C: Yeah, I think it's uh, England is probably the most developed. Um, and also because you've got really great options at the top level and also in the second, third and some even in the fourth division. Um, so I think it's a really, really attractive market. I think what the WSL is doing, driven by Nikki Doucet is incredible and her whole team, to be fair, Zahra on the commercial side and some of their operating team, I think they're doing a fantastic job. So therefore it makes it very interesting for a group like us to come in and clearly for other investors who are investing, you know, Sunderland and some other ones that are to be announced soon, I think, if they're not already. Um. So, yeah, I think um, it's an interesting market. We definitely want to find a team that we feel we can put our stamp on, that we can really drive. So it's under resourced with a good foundation that we can pick up and really get into the next level, the tier, build the fan base, make it something, make it feel like a club that is more, much bigger than it already is. So I think for us it's you know, where can we add the most value? So we're talking to, I mean there's so many clubs out there where yes, we can buy them, yes, we could improve them, but what's the, what's the club that we feel we can put our stamp on the most, where we can, where we can get the most value out of that we can drive the most. And, and that fits with our other clubs that we currently already have in terms of vibe and culture and you know, locations that people want to go to. And um, yeah, it's really exciting actually to be talking a lot. And I think what people have realized, um, is that on the men's side they, I was talking to the guys from um, a club in the WSL2 yesterday and they said, we recognize that we can't do this ourselves. The women's game is getting big enough now that we do need experts to come in and really help us run the clubrun, um, the club so we can sort of stand off and say, okay, go make um, it a success. Becoming more and more. It's not a. There's no fight, there's no, you know, there's no question now that that's what the women's game needs and I think the men's game is recognizing that as well.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think that's interesting as well because obviously you're part of I suppose a group now of multi club ownership groups that have emerged over the last few years. You obviously have, um, Kaniska, which is run by Michelle Kang, but Mercury 13 as well, uh, Bay Collective, who I guess she referenced before and then I suppose Monarch Collective a little bit, are investing in women's teams, um, also. And I suppose you can't buy all the teams, so I suppose you need those more investors to come in as well and sort of drive things forward. Um, also. So do you think we're kind of going to see more groups like this emerge over time? Do you think we're going to see more MCOs, um, and kind of, I suppose create that expertise to come in and provide that dedicated resource to one of these teams.

Speaker C: I hope so. I hope we see more MCOs. I hope we see more investors coming in and buying at scale. I think it's the best model right now for the women's game. And I think that what that then, you know, proposes to a UEFA and a FIFA is we need to look at regulations that are helping incentivize investment in the right way into the women's game, which is different from the men's and right now I believe the MCO model is the best model to drive the best growth at scale in the women's game. Um, and you know, we work with Kaniska and the other MCOs. We have a good relationship with them because we're all trying to do the same thing. And yes, we're competing in some ways. Absolutely not. Because we're trying to all build the women's game. So I think the model is the right one. I think the fact that we really need to look at what structures are best for the women's game, where it is. Now, you look at the mls, um, one family, two families own nine out of the ten first clubs in the mls. So don't tell me that it doesn't work to have one owner owning multiple clubs that are playing against each other. Um, the Saudi League, there's plenty of examples really, in sport all around the planet where we have one owner of multiple clubs, that you can still maintain sporting integrity because that is important. We can't have any kind of BS coming into the women's game. I'm, um, super strict on that as well. But we do have to really think about how are we incentivizing investment into the game. And if these people are putting the most money where their mouth is and walking the walk, then UEFAs and the FIFAs have to incentivize, not try, um, to put a stop to it just because the men's game has ruined it. Or does the MCO weigh in a different way? Because our MCO models are totally different from any MCO model on the men's side. So it's a really interesting question.

Speaker B: Yeah. And on that topic, I suppose, of incentivizing investment, we've spoken a lot about the. That well referenced a few times to the NWSL. During this conversation, you spoke about the $205 million expansion fee. I think average valuations now stand at $186 million as well. But it's obviously a very different system over there. Uh, with the, with the close model, um, do you think something like that in Europe would attract more.

Speaker A: More investment?

Speaker B: Do you think that's something that could work over here? Or do you think it's not necessarily the.

Speaker C: What do you mean something like that?

Speaker B: Sorry, a m. More closed.

Speaker C: I mean, such an interesting topic. I think it would be really hard to close league. I think there's a. Historically, you know, football was born over here in Europe and the promotion, relegation makes it super interesting at the end of the season. So I think there's Pros and cons to a closed league and an open league and promotion, relegation, um, I know in the closed leagues it becomes harder because as more and more teams come in and they invest that 205 million then gets spread into all of the clubs that have been there forever. And so what's the incentivization to the clubs who have been there, who don't necessarily really need to invest? So you often in close leagues can get. If you don't have the right types of salary caps or draft system that make the teams more equal and even, you then get the lower three teams that can tend to sit and not really be pushing to develop until they maybe potentially get bought or things like that. But, you know, in promotion, relegation, you're in a league, you always have to fight, you always have to compete. And I think, like, that's the spirit of competition. So I think the NFL is probably one of the most successful sports, sports entities on the planet. So closely they have a salary cap, so they do a lot of things right. Um, same with the nwsl. But I think the promotion, relegation for fans is. Is great. You know, it's terrible for us as owners because, you know, having being sat in a relegation zone with Montpellier because our team is half academy players. We have an average age of 20 and the average age of the league is 26, because, one, we picked up the team halfway through the season, we didn't have the players we've had to recruit. And it's tough, you know, it's a struggle, but, like, that's what sport's about. It's. It's to compete. So I know there was talk and within the wsl potentially closing the league for a certain amount of time, I think that. I don't think that's a bad idea, you know, do I? Is it. Is it going ahead? May or may not. But, um, I think we do really have to think about what's right for the women's game right now. And if that means close it for two years or to allow more up, which I know Nikki has done, so more teams are going to be able to come up without dropping down. That's amazing because it's like not copying the men's game, which has been around forever, and then, you know, you look in the next two to three years and try to anticipate what structures we're going to need. I think we have to. We just have to be more dynamic and we have to be more innovative on the women's side.

Speaker B: Yeah, I think what's obvious it's not, it's not a straightforward answer. Um, and it's not straightforward to do either. Right, um, I'm conscious I've kept you for nearly half an hour now back. So we'll, we'll um, we'll bring it back to Crux to um, to finish things up. What's kind of I suppose the immediate roadmap from your perspective, what's up, what's coming up next, you know, what's if we got further club acquisitions in the, in the works at the moment. What's, what's the timeline on some of that?

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, no, we're, we're continuing to raise, We've got a good investor group. Um, we are, yeah, we're looking at third, fourth, fifth clubs already in different regions. Um, we have a lot of inbound. We're driving our commercial strategy forward. Like, like I mentioned, that's um, going to be an exciting one. I'm also launching a player investor collective. So what that means is um, Abby Wambach for example is one of our investors. Um, but you know, her and Julie and some other players that are former players that are invested in us. Um, we're going to be driving a player investor collective. So for me it's really important that former, specifically female players but also male players we have, involved as well have the capability um, to be able to become owners. You know we've, we've built the sport. You know we're the ones who are blood sweating, tears everywhere. Um, and I think it's important to allow opportunities for players to be able to invest like the Angel Cities have done, like Gotham has done. Well many clubs in the nwsl, um, love volleyball, you know, just launch some teams and players from multiple sports are there. So it happens in the US less so here on the Europe side. So we've got us investors, European um, players. Um, so that for me is an important one that I'm driving forward. So we're keeping the round open just a little bit longer for strategic investors and former players and those that just really like the player centric model that we're building so.

Speaker A: Sure.

Speaker B: And just my final question, Bex, what's the kind of what would success look like in the long term? I mean I imagine it'd be easy to say a certain, you know, X amount of increase in uh, valuation for your clubs. But um, beyond that I suppose what does success look like for crux?

Speaker C: Yeah, I mean I think the valuation of the clubs going up is, is a no brainer and they already have, you know, the two clubs we know we can, we bought them for very little. We could turn around and sell them today if we wanted to for a lot more, but that's important. But for us, it's really important that we're building, um, value into the game so that the players that come to our clubs are getting better, that they are on and off the pitch developing that we are building more female coaches into our system. We've got both of our sporting directors. In each club are former players. Caroline Sager, legend in Sweden, is our sporting director. Rosengards she retired and came straight into that. Laura Agard former International for France Sporting DIRECTOR so for me it's important that we get more opportunities for players. Um, we're obviously looking to get to around five clubs. You never know what happens at that point. Sam um, but yeah, get to five clubs. We want to be working with brands and partners that um, really understand our values and have the same purpose and meaning that we have to drive the growth of the women's game here in Europe. Um, and we feel like we're finding the right solutions together with those partners. We're going need a big fan base to help drive some of the commercial and revenue drivers of the club. So, you know, we're looking at things like rebranding of potential clubs. So that's an interesting one. Um, we're looking at a merchant e commerce, um, whole sort of part of the business that doesn't exist, you know, in very many clubs in, in Europe. So there's so many, so many elements of the clubs. But I think for me the main one is, is we really want to, we want to cause a seismic shift in the structures of women's football in Europe and we want to do that with great partners and an incredible community of fans that are inclusive and celebratory and just have a good time, you know, for sure.

Speaker B: Great night to end on lots to lots to keep you busy.

Speaker C: I know exactly.

Speaker B: Over the coming months and years. But um, Bex, thanks so much M for your time. Always a pleasure to chat. Appreciate you joining us. There you have it.

Speaker A: I really enjoyed that one and hope you did too. If you want more conversations like that, then a reminder that you can hear from Becks at this month's investment summit where other confirmed speakers include EUROLEAGUE chief executive Chus Bueno, Andy Hodgson, the chief financial officer of Goal Hanger, fresh from the launch of the podcast network's investment arm, um, and others like former Leeds United owner Andrea Radrozani. To find out who else is speaking and how to get your pass for the event, just visit invest.sportspro.com in the meantime, don't forget to check out our other podcasts, Streamtime Sports and Mike's out for more conversations covering the global sports business. For now, though, thank you again to Beck Smith. Thank you for listening. This episode was recorded at UH Sports Pro London. The producer is Arif Islamic.