Living in San Sebastián: Buying, Renovating & Finding Your Dream Home in Spain

Speaker A: If you've ever dreamed about buying and renovating a property in Spain, then this episode is for you. Hi, I'm Vanessa. Welcome back to the Selena Global Loving podcast, where we talk about real estate, real life, and the realities of life abroad. Today we're traveling to San Sebastian in the Basque country, and we're talking to a design and build team, a couple who help foreigners buy and renovate historic properties in. In San Sebastian. I think a lot of people have this dream of buying a historic property and bringing it back to life, but the reality of doing that, if you don't have the right team of people around, you can turn your dream into a nightmare. So today we're going to talk about how to do this the right way and what you should know before starting a project like this. And then, of course, you will now have a contact in the area if this is an area where you would like to buy. So I'll include a link to contact Verna and Patra, uh, in the description below. So if you are interested in buying in this area, definitely reach out to them. Um, without further ado, let's learn about renovating property in the Basque country. Hello, Berna and Patrick, thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. I'm really excited to have this conversation because I think so many people dream about buying a beautiful historic property and renovating it in the new country that they're moving to. And it sounds very dreamy and romantic, but the reality can be different if you don't have the right team. Uh, you guys came very highly recommended to me, and I've seen some before and afters of the work that you do, and it looks like you can really make that dream a reality. So I'm excited to chat with you about all of that.

Speaker B: So thank you, thank you.

Speaker C: Thank you very much for the invitation. Yep.

Speaker B: Yeah, we're so excited about this conversation. Good.

Speaker A: Well, before we get into renovating properties, I want to know more about your story. So how did you guys end up in San Sebastian?

Speaker B: Should I speak? Well, uh, first of all, I am Chilean, but with Basque, uh, background. My grandparents are from the Basque country, from a little town near San Sebastian and another town near Bilbao. Uh, but I was born and raised in Chile in a very Basque family. Aunt Patrick was born in the United States, but grew up all over the world because of his dad's work. So he lived in Chile, in Italy. Both of us wanted to live for a while, but as a family here in Spain. Me, because of my heritage, and he because his Childhood was spent, uh, in Madrid, so he wanted to come back. Yeah.

Speaker A: And what drew you to San Sebastian in particular?

Speaker B: I think San Sebastian is. Well, because of my family. They had a. Well they have a couple of properties in Fuentarabia, the town where my grandmother is, and a property here in San Sebastian. Really I really wanted to live in this town because it has a very good quality of life and because of the way I was raised, I was raised in a very Basque culture. So I always wanted to live in the Basque country. It could have been maybe Fuenta Ramilla or Bilbao or another place in the Basque country. But for the moment when we decided to come, we had a property where we could stay in the beginning here in San Sebastian.

Speaker C: Yeah. What's interesting about it is that when we, we didn't plan coming here and to stay. So I lost my job in Chile in 2020 September. And we had just, you know, time and we had where to stay and we were coming for six months and you know, try. I wanted to start a business and you know, work remotely between Chile and Spain. But eventually we just, you know, it turned out like this. We came and, and we just loved it and we fell in love with this place and we have, you know, very good friends and that's why we're here.

Speaker B: It was a six month adventure that uh, ended up becoming forever. Yeah.

Speaker A: You mentioned the Basque culture and wanting to live in the Basque country. For people who aren't familiar with the Basque and the culture in general, can you contrast life there versus in the rest of Spain?

Speaker B: Yeah, in here. Well, first of all, there's a language, special language here in the Basque country. It's usquera. It's a co official language. So in here most people speak Spanish. But euskera is also required if you are looking for a job or in schools. If you have kids and relocating here, you will have to know that your kids will be, will need to learn eusquera because it's mandatory in every school. That's a very. And that language is very, very different than Spanish. It has no roots. They don't know yet where the root of the language comes from. So it's very, very different.

Speaker C: Yeah, there's no similar language.

Speaker B: It's hard to learn because it's very, it's rare. Yeah, it sounds nothing, um, like Spanish, nothing like English. So that's the first very different thing with the rest of Spain. Another thing is that I think maybe here Basque people are a bit more close to groups. They hang out in groups of Few people that they call quadrillas and they get out in that group, and it's very hard to get inside of those groups. So you need time to develop friendships in here. There is tough Spanish people. I think they're more open, are more welcoming to foreigners in here. It's harder that part. But when they received you in their group, they are like best friends forever. They're very good friends. But you have to be patient with developing that ships in here.

Speaker C: I think they're a little shy. Uh, the culture. I don't know people here in the vast country. But, you know, in the end, they are very noble people. I mean, people that when they let you in, it takes a little time, as Berna said, but then they just, you know, are friends forever with you. I mean, they're very. They. You can trust them. Absolutely. Very honest people. So that's compared to the rest of Spain.

Speaker B: Yeah. And another thing that is. Well, it's not that different than the rest of Spain, but it's very, very from here is that people live for eating. It's like. It's gastronomy, very important part of life. And they. It's like they live for that. They have these, uh, secret societies where they. Well, they're called.

Speaker C: Well, not secret, but gastronomical societies. Yeah.

Speaker B: Where in the beginning, women were not allowed in there because it was a place just for men to gather and cook and be away from the women in their house that they take. The women took the kitchen and. And wouldn't allow the men to cook. So they had their special place where they gather and cook and eat. And women weren't allowed. Now they. They are allowed in some societies and it's very fun to go there. But you are not allowed. Women are. We still are not allowed to cook. We just can't eat. We cannot cook in there. It's, um, a city or, uh, a community where every men are, ah, the ones that cook. The ones that know about cooking much better than the women. Uh, it's a very masculine part of life.

Speaker C: Yeah. But as well, this comes from. As Bruno said, the women here have strong personalities. Yeah. And they're like very empowered boss.

Speaker B: They're very bossy. That's why it was a place where they can be alone, away from the bossiness of their wives.

Speaker A: That's fascinating. I did not know that. So tell me how ins homes came about. And what do you guys do?

Speaker B: Well, it started as just me. I'm an architect. He's an engineer. But Patrick was working. He found a job while Here and started working in another area. And I, I was working in Chile with a uh, partner and the first two years that we stayed in here I kept working with her remotely. But then I was kind of frustrating of not being able to be on site to touch materials to decide about those. So I started looking for projects in here. And at some point, uh, past the year 2025, in mid of 2025 I had a lot of projects. I couldn't handle them by myself and Patrick was a bit frustrated in his job. So we decided to do business together and we started like crafting this ideal client that in the beginning I was taking whatever I could get. And now we have a very defined client that is the foreign buyer that needs a uh, renovation in a property that has some kind of architectural heritage here in San Sebastian and surroundings.

Speaker C: Right now I think that ins homes is like a summary of and the complement of what we both are and we are a very good compliment now to, you know, we're starting to scale and I don't know we're very happy about it right now. We have a lot of work this year and we want to grow and we're happy.

Speaker A: That's fantastic. And so when you work with an international buyer, what is their like when they come to San Sebastian and they say, I want to buy a property and renovate it? Um, what, what do you need to explain to them? Or what are some of the reality resets that you need to go over with them so that they, their expectations end up meeting reality.

Speaker B: One thing that I've seen that is I don't know exactly how it works in, in the United States or other countries. I know how it works in Chile and in Spain. I have some idea of how it works in the United States. But in here the process of buying is very slow. And I think that can be frustrating for mostly for Americans that are more used to, okay, I buy, I make an offer, it's accepted and it doesn't pass a lot of time before they get the keys of the property. Here in San Sebastian, at least that could take three months in, in between you make an offer, it got accepted, you sign arras and then if you need a more mortgage, it could take even more. But yeah, you could have the keys of your apartment three months after you got accepted the offer. And that can be frustrating because they start making plans about like time frames and nothing in the end fits with the reality of how long it takes to get the property. And that that's the first thing because the renovation could Be very fast here people work fast. And the permits are not as long as other places. At least in Chile there are uh, like they take longer the permits. I don't know in the United States, but in here you could have a permit in one month that they could take until three months. But in the reality you could get it in one month or at most three months. But it's not that much at least in San Sebastian.

Speaker C: Depends on the city. There are cities that is much slower as well, like Fuente Ravilla. But um, that is a town, uh, I don't know half an hour from here. But it depends.

Speaker B: They're not slow. And that part is. I think it's okay. It's manageable. But the, the timeframe between the, the offer and getting the keys could be a bit uncertain. And then another thing that is very characteristic from Spain and uh, I haven't seen in other countries is that. Well probably in other European countries, but the building is constantly making improvements of their. The entire building, like the facade, trying to put an elevator or renovating the interior patios. And there's a lot of expenses that come from there that nobody tells you about. And then sometimes they make an offer and then in the middle they realize that there is uh, the Rama that in here. I had to look for it in English. Could be it will be special assessment or something like that. It's like uh, that they have to pay if they buy the apartment and then these uh, upgrades that they want to do are maybe per apartment they have to spend €50,000. And those are things that if you don't know upfront could be a very, very ugly surprise in the. We are working now in an apartment in a whole building in Fuente Revilla that we are making the project for all the common areas of the building and also the facade. And we. One lady bought an apartment last year and she wasn't sure about what was going to happen with the facade and now she's very upset that she has to spend €50,000. Yeah, 50,000. It's quite.

Speaker C: She expected. She knew there was ah, um, a special assessment coming, um, but she didn't

Speaker B: research more how much could it be. So those are things that I will tell ah, a foreign client that they have to ask to their real estate agent because they're. It could. They could get.

Speaker C: Could be a problem.

Speaker B: Yeah, very easy. But surprise if they are not. Well, like. Yeah, I don't know if they.

Speaker C: Yeah. So in the, in the budget when you buy a property here, you have to take into Account the budget if there is a, uh, drama coming that in many cases there is depends on the amount. Of course, if you're only maintaining the, the elevator, well, maybe it's not that much. If you remain in the whole facade, it would be much more. So you have to take that into account. And that's one of the things that we say. Our customers will help them out with that.

Speaker A: Right, for sure. And when you're walking a property with a client that needs significant renovation, what are you looking for? What stands out to you?

Speaker B: For me, I think the most important things are, ah, the things that you cannot change with the renovation that are natural light, the views, if you have a view or you have a very ugly view or a beautiful view, and uh, orientation, because I think the rest of the things you could change them with a good design. But those three things are impossible to change. So it's important to have good natural light. It's important in here mostly here in San Sebastian, orientation is very important because it rains a lot and it could be very dark in winter. If you are facing north, uh, it's as if you could, can get an apartment that faces south. That's the ideal. Or if it faces north, that at least has some other windows with south or east or west orientation, but not all the apartment facing north because it's very humid in here and rains a lot and that it's not the same as facing north in Madrid. So yeah.

Speaker C: And we also add value in the process of the real estate buying. We like to accompany the customers before they buy and in the purchasing stage, because of our real estate background, we also like to and customers have valued this analysis of where you're buying. You know, the location, I mean everyone knows that location in real estate. Location, location, location is super important. But we like to all depends on the budget they have. But they shouldn't be afraid if they have a budget and buy, for example in downtown, in San Sebastian, where it's very expensive, but it's a very good investment because usually in San Sebastian and the best places in the different cities, maybe it's more expensive, but the value of the property will rise more in comparison to other places that are, or other neighborhoods that are not that demanded. So in that sense we, we know the city and we can, you know, we can tell them where they should or where is a good buy or where not.

Speaker A: And what is a realistic renovation budget

Speaker B: per square meter for our kind of projects, for our type of project is 1500 per square meters is like the, the, the average price if we just do a uh, like makeup in the apartment, ah, just like not, not tearing up walls, not changing the installation, not changing the kitchen to another part of the apartment. In that case it could be much less like around €1,000 per square meter. But. And if we make a um, high end renovation with like the top appliances and top materials, uh, it could go up until 2000 per square meters.

Speaker A: So let's say new floors, kitchen, bathrooms for a um, two bed, two bath apartment in the city center. What's the time frame to turn that over? From when you get to start delivery.

Speaker B: Cosmetic. If everything goes in place, like the constructor has the time and the, and the people free for starting and not having to leave to another project and come back if I can. That's the ideal scenario. It could take like I think in between one and two months if it's cosmetic. We just made the renovation of two bathrooms, but there were big bathrooms, just the bathrooms. Because the rest of the apartment didn't need a uh, renovation and it took one month, just one month. But if that's the hard part of the renovation, even though it was cosmetic, we changed everything but we didn't move ah, the installation. So that's why uh, we still call it cosmetic because we didn't demolish any wall but we changed absolutely everything. And that's the hard part because the rest of the bedrooms or halls, um, that's the easy part, it's just paint and changing the floors. So I think in between one and two months for a cosmetic renovation. Yeah.

Speaker A: And what costs do you find that international buyers tend to forget to include when they're factoring in a renovation?

Speaker B: Probably I don't know if in the renovation mostly in the closing of the, of the buying of the purchase of the property, there are a lot of expenses that are, that are just from here like taxes and that kind of uh, expenses or the taxes for the renovation. There's also uh, they charge a 5%. Mhm. Ah, the city hall for the renovation. If it's a renovation that requires a permit because the cosmetic one doesn't require permit and you don't have to pay anything. But if it requires permit that all the renovations that you need to move water from one place to another, you need to have a special permit. If you demolish like bearing walls, you need permits. And if you change the windows, even though you don't make nothing else than change the window for a new one, you need permit because it cannot affect the look of the facade from the exterior. So they have to Approve the color that you are putting the windows. So um, in. Why was I talking about the permits? I forget.

Speaker C: No, but the costs, the cost that the customer.

Speaker B: That cost. That cost is. Yeah, it's a 5% of the whole renovation at that. That could be a uh, surprise because they, they don't know. They, they don't need to know that up front. They face that when they, when we are dealing with the uh, with the permit mostly that I think that the renovation itself. Yeah, we are very clear about all the costs and they can see them and approve them upfront. There's. There. It's not usual to, to get like surprises of costs.

Speaker C: It's important the floor, you said that, uh, so that the floor if uh, very regular. There's an investment that you have to make. If it's a um, wooden structure. No.

Speaker B: Yeah, but it's, that's not something that they forget to include. It's something that if in here you can find a lot of apartments that the flooring are like.

Speaker C: Yeah.

Speaker B: I mean, uneven.

Speaker C: Uneven

Speaker B: in here because the structure of most of the buildings in the, in downtown, in Old Town, in Honda Reta and in Gross, they are a wooden structure buildings and wood moves. So. And they are very old. So it's very common to find that the floors are uneven and they go like making a slope to the ceiling, uh, to the um, middle of the apartment. Drop a ball and it will go. It's very common to find that. And that is an expensive fix. It can be fixed. It's not a real problem. It's not a structural problem. But you could spend in between €20,000, uh, just to level that, just to make even. And the apartment still is without the renovation. And you just spend 20,000 just to make the floor even and leveled and then from there you can start the renovation. So that's an important thing to tell the potential buyers when they visit if they want to do that. Because there are people that doesn't care and live with the apartments like that. But if it's something that bothers them, it's an expensive thing to fix. It can be fixed, but it's expensive.

Speaker A: Right. When somebody's looking at doing a renovation that gives them the best return on investment, what are the things that they should focus on in San Sebastian to get the most bang for their buck?

Speaker B: Mhm. Well, first of all, location. Because if you do a great renovation in Eguia, that is a neighborhood that is very close to the center, but it's very unstable now, you won't have a Very great return over that investment. So first of all, Centro Parte Vieja, huh? Honda, Reta Gross. Those are the best neighborhoods. And you will go, like, secure if you choose those locations. Then I would say windows. Windows are all putting new windows that improve insulation, that look modern and then also insulate from acoustic from the noise. That is a great investment. Apartments look older with old windows. So that. And the other thing is always kitchen and bathrooms. Kitchen and bathrooms are the first thing that stands out to a new buyer if they are reselling later.

Speaker C: Yeah. So basically, if you buy an apartment in downtown in a very good location. Well, any place downtown, really, because it's, uh, all walkable. It's not, you know, it's not very large. So any part in the downtown, if you buy and then renovate, if you buy at the, at the price, at the correct price, uh, any renovation probably will be a good investment. It will be an investment, definitely. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah.

Speaker C: And when you sell, you'll recuperate the value of the investment and all the uprising, uh, of prices in time, right?

Speaker B: Um, yeah.

Speaker A: Yeah. Let's talk about building the right team. So I always say, like, anything's possible if you have the right people around you. And the opposite is also true. Like if you have the wrong contractor, if you work with the wrong real estate agent, if you have people who aren't experts, lots of things can go wrong because you don't know what you don't know. So if you are advising an international buyer, who are the people that you would recommend that they build around them to form a complete team to support them through the buying and renovation and process?

Speaker B: First of all, I think the real estate agent that finds the property, because there's a lot of agents that just want to sell whatever because it's better for them, not for the buyer. I think having a good real estate agent that can help them find the best property for the client and not for the real estate agent benefit, um, also that understands how international buyers behave. It's important. Not every real estate agent will work good with, uh, a, uh, foreign client. Then the design team, the architect, interior design, interior designer and project manager and a good constructor. For us, that's been hard to find and now we have an excellent one and things go smoother and faster and, uh, end up being much better with a good constructor that make, uh, he takes care of everything. And then if something is not, uh, well ended or, uh, well finished, he comes back and he doesn't like, oh, come on, I'm tired of fixing all These little things I'm vanishing in the air. That's a very common thing to find. No, he.

Speaker C: Yes. When you know about people that really know about construction and real estate, uh, they know that uh, when you finish uh, a building or an apartment there's always going to be, you know, details you have to m. Fix and it's. Sometimes it takes time and sometimes yeah, customers are more um, some are more. They want everything to be perfect. Others are a little bit less maybe. But it's always important for the client to be the customer to be happy. And we know that it's a very important investment for the customer. So we always, you know, accompany to the end. And then the other thing that we provide as a service in is homes is that we are like a studio, that we are in charge of everything. What we mean is that we are in the design, build. I mean we work together hand in hand with uh, the contractor and even the interiorism. So the customer really doesn't have to deal with every part of the chain. Uh, they, when we start a uh, project and a construction, they deal with us and we partner up always with you know, the best contractor and we manage and we all the project management, management is done by us. So that's, that's a thing that we've considered very important for the customer that is from a. Abroad because they need someone, you know, they don't have a network here of people. So they, they and we, we want to provide this service and for them to be, rest on us and, and don't have to figure out who I have to talk with. And it's time in the end. It's, it's time and problems. Uh, and we, we try to absorb everything us and it's what we do and we like it and we love it. So I think it's a great deal for them to the customers.

Speaker B: And coming back to your question, another team member, I think it's important for foreign, for everybody but for foreign is someone that helps them with taxes. Taxes in here can be very tricky. And when you buy a house and renovate which taxes you could avoid or which ones you have to pay, uh, and if they have to pay VAT or if they can get it in return, that's a very special situation for each one. So someone that helps in that, uh, someone that, that helps that or a lawyer should be part of the team, I think.

Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. And we kind of, we collaborate with agents that do these kinds of assessments. So sometimes it's not what we do but we, we have the network to provide that service as well, you know?

Speaker B: Mhm.

Speaker A: Yeah. To your point about having a good contractor, I think you're absolutely right. Like when you find a good contractor, they are gold. And finding a contractor who is busy, that has their own crew that works with the same people over and over because those tradespeople, the painters, the electricians, the, you know, the ones who are actually physically doing the work vary in quality dramatically. Right. And I think we've all seen some work that you just think this was this your first time and nobody who sat next to you to watch you lay this tile. My lord. So that is where things can really get frustrating for especially an international buyer who can't speak the language and can't be there every day to watch. If you don't have a contractor who has a good crew who is supervising their crew, lots of little problems happen that sometimes aren't even like noticed until it's too late and the wall's um, up and the electricity isn't done. Right, right. So I mean again, having the right people paying a little bit more, doing your research, making sure that you're working with somebody who does a lot of work and works with the same team pretty consistently I find is, you know, solves a lot of problems, prevents a lot of problems. Yeah, right. Definitely.

Speaker C: Yeah, definitely.

Speaker A: Let's talk a little bit about the, the mindset of an international buyer. We talked about this a little bit in terms of the time frames. Um, what else should an international buyer, when you're working with somebody and maybe they're, you know, managing this project from overseas or they're popping in and out, um, and they're of course very excited and they want this project done. What are, what's sort of the mindset that helps them be successful in this process?

Speaker B: I think to be open to how things work in another country. Because sometimes I see, I've seen in, in some clients and I actually I have now a client that is comparing every time everything to how things work in her country. So if you are always comparing that, you will feel very frustrated because there are things that in here are made, are done better and there are a lot of things that are done worse or in a different way or slower. So if you are constantly comparing, you will get stuck and get frustrated. And I think it's trying to be open to, okay, this is how things work in here. This is the way the people work and that uh, the system works and try to go with that without being, because in the end it will be smoother. And easier and even faster if you go that way, instead of trying for the things to get to be done the way that are made in your country.

Speaker C: You know, in San Sebastian, walkability, gastronomy, you know, everything, they'll love it. But, you know, for example, if you compare the system here compared to the US Some things will go slow, slower, and you have to accept it. And, um, I mean, it's fine if you accept it up front. Up front, yeah. And you assume it in your timeline and you organize yourself around that condition. So.

Speaker A: Makes sense.

Speaker C: I think it's a point of balancing

Speaker B: and acceptance that makes sense.

Speaker A: So let's switch gears just a little bit. Everybody loves a good before and after. Can we talk about a specific project? Maybe one that had a lot of potential but definitely required a lot of vision? Can you walk me through, you know, where you started and where you ended with that project?

Speaker B: Yeah. Okay. I have a lot of of them m in mind, but I think one of the ones, One of the projects that I liked the most so far, uh, was made for an American couple, uh, with two kids in gross. Uh, the experience was from the very beginning. I, uh, went with them to see an apartment that was already finished, but they wanted my advice. And if it was a good purchase and it was in front of the one that they ended up buying, it was across the street and it was great. It had an amazing view and it had the kitchen in the best place of the house. But in the end, that purchase didn't work out because something happened with the owner. He couldn't sell it. And it was very frustrating for them, but they couldn't buy it. But they stayed with the idea of that kitchen in the best place of the house. That usually here in Spain, those places are for living room or main bedroom. The kitchens are in the worst part of the apartment, always in here, in the original ones, in the patios with no light. And you have to cross a very, uh, long hallway to get from the kitchen to the living room and the dining room. It makes no sense. But most of the old apartments in, uh, here had that configuration. So we started looking, I helped them look to an apartment that was in that area that we could renovate from scratch. And we found one that was, like I just said, like with the kitchen in here, the bedroom, the living room and dining room in the other way of the house. But as she was already with this idea of the kitchen in her head, we could clearly saw that in the new, in the, in this apartment that we could renovate. And we ended up making that and we demolished the whole apartment. We moved the kitchen to the best place of the house and that was the originally the main bedroom and separated the like the day area with the kitchen, dining and um, living room and a studio from the night area that we moved to the back of the house. In the beginning it was. Everything was like mixed, it made no sense and it has a lot of square meters but very like divided and we opened everything. We made like the, the light, the natural light came into the house and ended up being an incredible uh, project. She was. Well both of them were incredibly happy with the result and they ended up spending much less than the original apartment. They wanted the original one costed. They made an offer in 1,070,000 something like that that got accepted but in the end the owner the couldn't sell and for this one they bought it in 840,000. We made a ah. 200,000 renovation and ended up being much better than the original one that they liked because had more square meters, a ah better view, a great light and they could custom made it like the things that the other one didn't, didn't fit them we made here. So I love that because it was like a full project from the finding the apartment to renovating and for now knowing that they made a very good investment. They want to leave to come back to the United States in a few years and they are very sure and uh, positive that they will have get their money back and more because now two years later I think we made that project two years ago and two years later that area has been like it costs much more now.

Speaker C: Yeah. And that's an area, it's called Gross where Berna said uh it's like the most popular neighborhood now for Americans and foreigners probably in the down range uh of age between 35 and 45 years. And then from 45 and 50 uh up people prefer, prefer more downtown romantic area or close to the beach Miraconcha. It's much more expensive as well. But well all this area is well

Speaker B: Gross is close to the beach. That's really another beach.

Speaker C: Yeah. The thing is. Yeah because the Concha is the elegant, more elegant uh beach and then you have the Suriola is the surfing beach and m. A lot of people from California are coming and it's a um, neighborhood that is definitely, I don't know how you say it, thriving. I mean it's is rising definitely.

Speaker A: That sounds like a great project. I'm looking forward to sharing those photos of the before and after on that one, if you're willing to share. Um, I want to end just on a couple cultural questions that we didn't talk about in the beginning. So for foreigners who are coming in, how do they tend to integrate into society? Or is there an international community that they become a part of? Because it sounds like with the language and the Basque culture, culture that, that's, that's a hard transition for a foreigner to make. How does that work?

Speaker B: Yeah, I think it's definitely hard to get into the Basque society. So in the beginning there's a lot of foreign people living in here and there are like communities of expats that gather and um, uh, I think that's the easiest way to start. But then try to meddle and to get into this circles. Maybe if you have kids, that, that's an easier way because of the activities of the school. With, with kids it's easier, much easier to get inside this culture or if you, if you're willing to find a job or that's another way. But for people, for us, lots, most of our clients are uh, digital nomads or people that are retiring or so it's harder for them to get into the culture because they don't have that day to day contact with Basque people. So in that way, in that sense, it's hard. It's not impossible, but it's hard and it needs patience.

Speaker A: Like we would have the same argument. So I live in Catalonia, right? And the question is always, if you don't speak Spanish, do you learn Catalan or do you speak Spanish? So for people coming to the Basque country, would you recommend that people learn Spanish first?

Speaker B: Definitely. Spanish. Spanish, yeah. Basque is very hard. And it's not.

Speaker A: You could live.

Speaker B: We don't speak Basque. I have no idea of Basque. We can live perfectly in here without knowing it. For kids it's harder. Kids are. They have to learn it if they would like to have good grades in school or even end up the year. But kids are easy, they learn easier. But for grownups, for adults it's not necessary. If you don't want to work in, um, as a functionario, as a uh, government official. Official, yeah. For those to be a doctor, a teacher or someone that works for some, some sort of uh, way. For the government it's mandatory to know very well for the kind of people that we work for and they are not looking for, that they come here with already they have their jobs or they want something, but more international related, not to work in the government or being a doctor or a teacher. But in those cases, you will have to learn Basque. But it's. They're not, it's not the common case.

Speaker A: Okay.

Speaker C: Mhm.

Speaker A: Perfect. Well, on that note, I want to thank you guys so much. I learned so much today. I appreciate it. And I will include a link in the description. If you'd like to reach out to Berna and Patrick to, to discuss a project, you can fill out that form and it'll connect you directly with them. And, uh, I look forward to seeing you guys in the fall. So in the fall, we're doing a green Spain scouting trip and San Sebastian is one of our stops. And we'll be meeting with Berna and Patrick and maybe we'll even get a chance to take a peek at one of their projects while we're there. We'll see what you guys are up to in the beginning of October for that. Um, so if you're interested in joining a scouting trip and learning more about the Basque country and other, um, cities and the northern coast of Spain, check the link in the description to learn about our upcoming scouting trip. All right, you guys, thank you so much. Cheers. I hope you enjoyed this episode and that you feel a little more confident in buying that dream property and renovating it in Spain. Whether you're looking in San Sebastian or anywhere else in Spain, I help you build the right team of experts so that you can find your place in Spain. If you'd like, help with that process. Whether you're first, you're just starting to explore moving to Spain and you have some beginner questions or you know exactly where you're going and you need an expert to help you make your dream a reality, I'm here to help. My contact information is in the description. Reach out and let's make it happen. Until next time, keep traveling, keep exploring, and keep living the life you dream about.